Ok, alot of people have been asking about the machine, So after alot of thinking, designing, building, redesigning, rebuilding (three times) this is what i have thus far, it uses the my Carriage design on the X-Axis as well as the Y-Axis, the machine is accessed from the front. The X-Axis will actually be across the machine and the Y-Axis is front to back (Two motors). Using the STMD Drivers and the Keling 425oz motors, because of the length of the lead screws I travel at 120ipm. which is pleanty for me for a home built machine, (as it is I cut at 80 to 100 with rapids of 200ipm on my present machine). Using the 1/2"-8 two start acme, Dumpster Anti-backlash, and so on, the setup is very smooth, I will try to use a PC 7518 eventually on it but for now will prob. use the Hitachi.

Ok, what I am asking from you guys is to help design the Z-Axis as you can see in the picture the Z-Axis slide will be a bolt on to the front, 4-5/16" bolts. the width has to be 6" total for the bolt on plate and the over all width can not exceed 7.5" (to alow for the 48" travel) the bottom of the Axis carriage is 5.5" from table top and have to count for the auto tool changer. I have 4 V-Bearings which will be used for the Z-Axis slide. I have a few idea's but would like a little input and additional thoughts.

So if you can please submit DWG files and we can discuss them and maybe you will be the one to design my Z-Axis.

Thanks, Joe

Looking very cool Joe.

I'm still trying to get my head around building your current one, but will be watching this project in parallel with great interest.

All the best with this one.

Claudio

Ok, alot of people have been asking about the machine, So after alot of thinking, designing, building, redesigning, rebuilding (three times) this is what i have thus far, it uses the my Carriage design on the X-Axis as well as the Y-Axis, the machine is accessed from the front. The X-Axis will actually be across the machine and the Y-Axis is front to back (Two motors). Using the STMD Drivers and the Keling 425oz motors, because of the length of the lead screws I travel at 120ipm. which is pleanty for me for a home built machine, (as it is I cut at 80 to 100 with rapids of 200ipm on my present machine). Using the 1/2"-8 two start acme, Dumpster Anti-backlash, and so on, the setup is very smooth, I will try to use a PC 7518 eventually on it but for now will prob. use the Hitachi.

Ok, what I am asking from you guys is to help design the Z-Axis as you can see in the picture the Z-Axis slide will be a bolt on to the front, 4-5/16" bolts. the width has to be 6" total for the bolt on plate and the over all width can not exceed 7.5" (to alow for the 48" travel) the bottom of the Axis carriage is 5.5" from table top and have to count for the auto tool changer. I have 4 V-Bearings which will be used for the Z-Axis slide. I have a few idea's but would like a little input and additional thoughts.

So if you can please submit DWG files and we can discuss them and maybe you will be the one to design my Z-Axis.

Thanks, Joe

Darn you man, will it never end... ;) Very nice Joe!!

It's not a DWG drawing but how about something like this:

http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=141

Looks like they are using 4 V-Bearings for the Y-Axis but the same could be applied to the Z with a narrower rail.
I purchased a bunch of the same bearings and rails also have been looking at Thomson slides and rails at Nook. Thinking about the same type of slide set up for a future machine or a mod to my Joe's 2006. Haven't put it to paper yet. Well back to checking out your pictures... :)

Thanks for sharing!!

Bob

That is where i got the V-Bearings and would like to utilize them in the Z-Axis. 299.00 for the slide is a little more i wanted to pay and only has 4" travel. need atleast 6".

Joe

Don't blame you! I wasn't suggesting a purchase, just the idea :)

Haven't gotten anything else drawn but I believe I have the # 2 bearings and rails drawn accurately in AutoCAD if you haven't done it yet and are interested.

Are you using the skate bearing and aluminum angle on the X & Y?

Bob

Don't blame you! I wasn't suggesting a purchase, just the idea :)

Haven't gotten anything else drawn but I believe I have the # 2 bearings and rails drawn accurately in AutoCAD if you haven't done it yet and are interested.

Are you using the skate bearing and aluminum angle on the X & Y?

Bob

Yes, X and Y just like the Z-Axis carriage on present machine.

The Z i was thinking two Concentric bushing and V-groove wheel #2 on Lt. side and Two Eccentric bushing and V-groove wheel #2 on the Rt side, Two 12" V-tracts bolted to a 1/2" x 6" x 12" alumn. plate, and Anti-backlash screwed to angle on rear. Just need to draw it up.

Joe

Yes, X and Y just like the Z-Axis carriage on present machine.

The Z i was thinking two Concentric bushing and V-groove wheel #2 on Lt. side and Two Eccentric bushing and V-groove wheel #2 on the Rt side, Two 12" V-tracts bolted to a 1/2" x 6" x 12" alumn. plate, and Anti-backlash screwed to angle on rear. Just need to draw it up.

Joe

Sounds good! Have you seen the double edge rails? I've seen a couple designs where one double edge rail is used in the center of the plate with two wheels on each side.

I might just have to work on a drawing. Sounds like fun.

Bob

Very Sweet looking Joe you are the man. I can't believe that you have the time to develop another machine with everyone asking you to cut your current machine. You are a man with to much time on your hands LOL.
Keep up the good work.

Rick

Very Sweet looking Joe you are the man. I can't believe that you have the time to develop another machine with everyone asking you to cut your current machine. You are a man with to much time on your hands LOL.
Keep up the good work.

Rick

Thanks, Don't forget i have a full time job work 10 to 12 hr days, Sleep is not an option right now... Machine is cutting as i type now. lol

Joe

Thanks, Don't forget i have a full time job work 10 to 12 hr days, Sleep is not an option right now... Machine is cutting as i type now. lol

Joe

I hear you about working 10 to 12 hrs day I do the same but their never seems to be enough time to play like with the machine.
Oh I do like the name of the new Machine is that what you are going to call it

Rick

Yea thought the name would fit it. MDF, 80/20, pipe rails, HDPE, etc... a collection of materials.

Joe

Yea thought the name would fit it. MDF, 80/20, pipe rails, DHPE, etc... a collection of materials.

Joe

True but they all work good together and play well to.

Rick

Hey Joe, looking good.

I really like the pipes on the top and bottom of the lower rails (your Y?) instead of the sides. It solves a few problems in my mind. I guess the bottom trucks are the adjustable ones? How are you attaching the bottom pipe?

I don’t see a leadscrew attached to your Z carriage. Where are you planning to attach to it (top, bottom, back)?
Edit: Now I see it. Ooops, nevermind.

I have been playing with a set of V-bearings for my 6 inch wide Z. I went with official rails. They are $1 an inch, but you only need two 1 foot (or so) sections, so the total price is not that bad. IMService cut them to length for no additional charge. I mounted them on wooden standoffs. The eccentrics only give you .048” of adjustment, so the rail standoff placement and parallel is critical. My first design had the motor riding up and down with the router, but I think I talked myself out of that.

I went with split rails on my Y to allow greater adjusting. This could also be used for your Z and then you would not have to buy the bushings.

Good Job,
Steve

Joe,

Very cool, can't wait to see what it will do when it is complete.

Nice design Joe!

Can I ask how you managed to connect the pipe/rails for the Y and X to the support pcs? It looks like you have some sort of plastic spacers between the two but how did you connect it?

Bob

Looks great joe.

Here is a picture of how the X and Y Rails are made, hope this helps, using 10-24 screws drill and tapped into pipe rails every 6".

and a shot from the side of the caraiage slide.

Yes the Y-Axis carriage has the tensioning bolts on the bottom, i figured that would be best.

Joe

I like it. How are your two y-axis lead screws syncronized?

Rob

I like it. How are your two y-axis lead screws syncronized?

Rob

Mach3 and timing belt

Here's my submission for the z-axis. All attempts for accuracy have been made, however I would highly suggest that all measurements be double checked.
The bolt head measurements are from some bolts that I have, however I found three different sizes so I went with the one I had the most of and that seemed to be the most common.
These ideas were what I was thinking of for a future mod to my existing machine or for a new machine. I drew these with the dimension as suggested by Joe.

Hopefully the drawings will provide some useful information. :)

Saved as version 2004
38301

Saved as version 2000
38302

Bob

Here's my submission for the z-axis. All attempts for accuracy have been made, however I would highly suggest that all measurements be double checked.
The bolt head measurements are from some bolts that I have, however I found three different sizes so I went with the one I had the most of and that seemed to be the most common.
These ideas were what I was thinking of for a future mod to my existing machine or for a new machine. I drew these with the dimension as suggested by Joe.

Hopefully the drawings will provide some useful information. :)

Saved as version 2004
38301

Saved as version 2000
38302

Bob

Looks good, now need to factor in leadscrew anti-backlash and motor mount ontop. as a complete Z-Axis assembly, but the concept is good.

Joe

Looks good, now need to factor in leadscrew anti-backlash and motor mount ontop. as a complete Z-Axis assembly, but the concept is good.

Joe

Ok, that'll be next, got a little ahead of myself, always one more thing to do... :)

Joe, those rail mounts and the way you use them with the aluminum is really nice! Great idea!

Bob

Here is a shot of showing the rear of the Gantry.


Joe

A bigger table, yet you'll be able to use smaller boxes when you ship the kits...

Seriously, superb work Joe!

Joe,

I've never used the 80/20 so I'm curious, why did you use strut rather than the 80/20 for cross braces and support legs? What are the pros and cons?

Thanks,

Bob

Main Reason is cost, 14.00 for 10' and I am thinking of bolting some composite deck material to than and them mill the individual strips, then screw top onto that.

Joe

Looks Good Joe.

I can see it being adapted to a plasma cutter real easy :) .

Joe,

Awesome job on the new machine.

........ thinking of bolting some composite deck material to than and them mill the individual strips, then screw top onto that.

Joe

Composite decking is about as stiff as a wet noodle and quite heavy. You might get some sagging if you go that route.

Composite decking is about as stiff as a wet noodle and quite heavy. You might get some sagging if you go that route.

No, the composite material will be cut into 7/8" strips and placed inside of the struts and extend 1/4" above the top of them just to allow enough to machine them level, then 3/4" MDF will be place and screwed down to that, then possible another surface machining will be preformed.

here is exaple of where the composite material will be placed as shown in red in photo.

Joe

How much wobble do you get on the table since the MDF isn't screwed down and there isn't any triangulation to keep it rigid?

Ok, i guess i will explain a little further.

The composite material is cut into strips, slide into uni-strust (as shown red in above picture) which will extend above the top of the uni-struts, It is bolted to from the bottomto the uni-struts, then i will machine the top portion skimming it with the machine to level it with the gantry, then the mdf bed will screw down to the machined composite material, when done this should be very stable with no movement.

and when i cage in the legs of the router with a lower shelf across the machine it will make a very solid frame.

Joe

Howdy Joe,

Ok, how about something like this, keep in mind I'm not a CAD expert and I tried to come up with something based on parts used with your 2006 machine.
This did add 1 1/2 inches to the overall height, but the back plate remains at the specified dimensions.

2004 ACAD File
38364

2000 ACAD File
38365

Like I mentioned before I've also been planning a mod to my existing machine or maybe a new machine so any suggestions are always welcome! :)

Bob

Well, I do like Bob's drawings, and is similar to what i eventually want, I did a quick bolt on Z-Axis, until i can refine the other design exactly like i want and maybe out of alumn.

This is a simple bolt on Z-Axis Slide and also the motor mount is bolted from above. It works well. and i have room for adjustment on the router mount at different bolt on heights. I found this was needed especially if you use the ATC.

Joe

Looking really good Joe. I can see chips flying already.

Jason

Joe any plans to expand this design to a 5X10 machine? Seems like it would still be rigid if you expanded it that far. Good design. I think it make a great 5X10 machine.

Well, I do like Bob's drawings, and is similar to what i eventually want, I did a quick bolt on Z-Axis, until i can refine the other design exactly like i want and maybe out of alumn.

This is a simple bolt on Z-Axis Slide and also the motor mount is bolted from above. It works well. and i have room for adjustment on the router mount at different bolt on heights. I found this was needed especially if you use the ATC.

Joe

Thanks! Can't wait to see what you come up with, aluminum would be nice!
LOL, take a look at the table in picture 1 then look at picture 3, "Now where is that 1/4" washer... :D

I like z-axis guides, look very familiar! :)

Bob

Thanks! Can't wait to see what you come up with, aluminum would be nice!
LOL, take a look at the table in picture 1 then look at picture 3, "Now where is that 1/4" washer... :D

I like z-axis guides, look very familiar! :)

Bob


Ok, you got me which washer?

Here is the Router Holder, I wanted a cage to make sure of no flex what so ever.

Ok, you got me which washer?

My point, exactly... :D

I got a laugh out of seeing your bench top in picture one, turn into picture 3, reminded me of the way my projects go, starts out with a couple wrenchs and some hardware, ends up with a drill, unistrut, socket wrench, more wrenches, more nuts and bolts, a flyer, pray lube, and the pile keeps growing.

Your router brackets look very nice! The cage should make for a very beefy holder! I can't wait to see a video of this machine in action!

Bob

Yea then you just get a box trow stuff into it, and then look all over for 1/2 hr. just for the things you put in the box and forgot. I think that is all to familiar to some.

Joe

Well the machine is getting to a point where it is harder to climb over the machine to work on it and also almost ready to move to put it into its place. I went to Harber Freight and got 4 screw jacks for 15.99 each and installed them , I need to put two more diag. bracing on the sides to make sure the machine will not flex, As it is not I can push it with my weight about 195 lbs and it does not flex, so with two more pieces i'm sure it will be good to go, And also will place some cross pieces to make a sheck for stock pieces and storage.

My point, exactly... :D

I got a laugh out of seeing your bench top in picture one, turn into picture 3, reminded me of the way my projects go, starts out with a couple wrenchs and some hardware, ends up with a drill, unistrut, socket wrench, more wrenches, more nuts and bolts, a flyer, pray lube, and the pile keeps growing.


Bob


Bob I know the feeling even if it is a simple fix to building a CNC I will have every socket, screw drive, wrench, hammer and on and on that I own in my work space. But I can’t seem to find the tool when I need it go figure LOL


Joe new machine is looking good!!!!!

Rick

Hi Joe

In post 30, your picture shows assembling the unit on some kind of greyish base material. I assume this is something you use to keep things flat / square. Is this an epoxy floor area, or that special wall board used in bathrooms ?

Thanks

That is just an old rug i use for the shop area.

I just bought a 360 deg. laser level.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=6463

Big lots has it for 30.00 sells on amazon for 133.99 a great deal.

I will use it when i have the machine in place and will be able to quickly level it up before i surface the top wood supports to ensure a level bed.

Joe

Got the machine moved into its location, leveled with the Jack screws and used some angle for the adjustment feet.

Also got the walls up for the 8'x8' room it where it will sit (still have enough room to park truck in garage, All the walls are up except the rear, waiting for the belts to arive tommarrow from sdp-spi, to couple the two leadscrews together, to make sure the Gantry stays square incase one motor misses steps hoepfully the other motor will help it along. in one of the pictures you can see the shelf the computer and driver boards in a computer case.

Also on the otherside i have enough room for theDelta dust collection system, with the trash can seperator

Joe

before placing the cutting bed top I milled the wood rails which were screwed from the bottom into the Cross beam stuts, this makes sure the top is parrallel to the gantry.

Joe

Impressive looking.

hi Joe-- very nice machine....

On my Unistrut that i have, i've noticed some loosening of the uni-Tee nuts - (those silly rectangled ones that only turn one direction) - just a heads up. loctite, or tack welding (if you tack it- remember welding galvanized isn't recommended, toxic gas and such, ventalation very important)

Got the machine moved into its location, leveled with the Jack screws and used some angle for the adjustment feet.

Also got the walls up for the 8'x8' room it where it will sit (still have enough room to park truck in garage, All the walls are up except the rear, waiting for the belts to arive tommarrow from sdp-spi, to couple the two leadscrews together, to make sure the Gantry stays square incase one motor misses steps hoepfully the other motor will help it along. in one of the pictures you can see the shelf the computer and driver boards in a computer case.

Also on the otherside i have enough room for theDelta dust collection system, with the trash can seperator

Joe


Joe,

Looks good, can't wait to see it in action!
How much room will you have with the ATC in place? In the picture it looks like it might be a little tight?

Bob

Joe,

Looks good, can't wait to see it in action!
How much room will you have with the ATC in place? In the picture it looks like it might be a little tight?

Bob

Never mind, after going back and reviewing your prior pictures it looks like you've got it designed to be able to raise the router mount up on the z-axis back plate. :cool:

Bob

Hey Joe,
I really like what you're doing with the 4x4. I curious though, is it stronger/stiffer then the Joe2006? I really like your Joe2006 and might possibly start building a version. Before I do, I'd appreciate knowing if your 4x4 Y-axis is stiffer then then the Joe2006. Any thoughts?

Joe,

Those look like some pretty heft extrusions. What size are they? They look HUGH!


Bill

Hey Joe,
I really like what you're doing with the 4x4. I curious though, is it stronger/stiffer then the Joe2006? I really like your Joe2006 and might possibly start building a version. Before I do, I'd appreciate knowing if your 4x4 Y-axis is stiffer then then the Joe2006. Any thoughts?

The overall machine is stout, with this low height gantry and riding on the top of the rails makes it very strudy.

Joe

Joe,

Those look like some pretty heft extrusions. What size are they? They look HUGH!


Bill


They are 2"x4"x72", got two from 80/20 and one from feztek, waited for them to be in the garage on ebay, very hard to come by used. got them for about 60 each plus shipping, usually they are about 130.00 each i think.

Joe

The first cut on the machine was to make its own Dust Collection skirt.

I was very impressed with the quality of the cut, could not really see any chattering. Here are a couple of pictures of the center hole cutouts so you can see the quality of the cut and they are untouched straight out of the machine.

Joe

The first cut on the machine was to make its own Dust Collection skirt.

I was very impressed with the quality of the cut, could not really see any chattering. Here are a couple of pictures of the center hole cutouts so you can see the quality of the cut and they are untouched straight out of the machine.

Joe

Joe, what do you do with all those coasters? ;)
Very nice results!!

Seeing that you are using your latest style dc, that being the plastic versus the brush, I take it you like this style more and have been getting good results with it?

Can't wait to see more!

Bob

Video?????:) :)



Jason

Howdy Joe

Video sounds good.I second the motion

More then likly answer one of my questions.
Is the attachment floating ? how is it attached? and last but not least. How much Z-axis cutting height do you lose with the ATC ?


Kent

The first cut on the machine was to make its own Dust Collection skirt.

I was very impressed with the quality of the cut, could not really see any chattering. Here are a couple of pictures of the center hole cutouts so you can see the quality of the cut and they are untouched straight out of the machine.

Joe

Joe,

I have been looking at this design for a while and I am curious why you chose two steppers to move the gantry? I thought a single motor in the center of the gantry would be simpler??

Bill

The wider your gantry is the more racking you will get, two leadscrews prevent it, and i have them both with a belt to keep it square at all times.

Joe

do have a pic of the belt drive assyemble of gantry

It is not a belt dribe, i am using 2 1/2"-8 two start leadscrews, the belt is just used to keep the two in sync. the leadscrews are driect drive by two 425oz/in motors, sharing the same step direction port pins to two driver boards, not slaved in mach3.

Joe

I did a v-carve for another surveyors seal last night (charged 125.00) came out good, however i do see runout in the Hitachi Router using the ATC, was not happy about that, put the ATC into the other router i had and the runout is not as much, noticed it alot with the v-bit installed so i could see the point, i was getting anywhere from .5mm to 1mm depending on speed, and was vibrating thouough the whole machine, because the machine is so ridged.

So i think it is time to stepup to a porter cable, eventhough the PC is made by Boush now.

Joe

I talked to Derek, at Hitech, and he said it is probable the 1/2" shank used, he sent it to me just to use in trial, And i remember him telling me about them ahead of time, and just forgot, that some of them were not machined properly, he said i could just have it turn it down slightly, This is no fault of Hi-Tech because i was warned ahead of time.

So the good news is the router is prob. ok as far as acceptable runout. I will switch the ATC with the othershank i have a see how it is.

Joe

Joe, do you have an estimate on the largest MDF piece on this machine? I am planning on building a new machine using my current one but some pieces on the joe2006 are bigger than my 19.5" x 21.5" cutting area. I'm leaning towards something like this one with a combo of MDF and 80/20.

Thanks,

Jason

It is not a belt dribe, i am using 2 1/2"-8 two start leadscrews, the belt is just used to keep the two in sync. the leadscrews are driect drive by two 425oz/in motors, sharing the same step direction port pins to two driver boards, not slaved in mach3.

Joe

Forgive my ignorance Joe - I thought that a main advantage of dual independent drives (no belt, separate axis controls) was that Mach 3 could independently home each motor of the dual axis to remove any 'racking' that might accumulate. It seems like the belt would only be useful if you are expecting to miss steps with one motor. Have you, or are you going to give it a try without the belt?

Gary

BTW, I haven't had any progress on my 2006 lately - some health issues and a major layoff where I work - hasn't hit me yet, but nerve wracking anyway (as opposed to axis racking).

Yes Mach3 can home the gantry sides indipendantly, I use the belt so i do not have to do this, i have run the machine prior to placing the belt, but i wanted the extra security to engure it will stay square, because I would not want one motor to loose steps at any point and cause the gantry to shift. The machine is stout but running the 425oz motors you could cause a little damage by having a wider gantry rack in position on one side.

Another reason to pin two of the drives together is i will have an extra set of pins for another axis board without installing another printer port and breakout board.
joe

On another note I placed the original tool changer into router and it works great, no runout like the new one. Derek from High-Tech is sending me a 3/8" Rapid Change Adapter. I will use a collet adapter from 1/2" to 3/8" and all should be good.

Derek is a very nice person to deal with, very helpful and straight forward.

http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/index_files/Page2481.htm

Joe

Joe,

I tried out the quick change with my Porter Cable 690 router (no variable speed) and the holder came loose under power. So, I would definitely recommend that one not use the HighTech quickchange without a variable speed router. I hope to eventually get a VS router so that I can use the qc and build an ATC.

Alan

Yes, i do not go above the 3 on the hitachi router with the ATC, The rotating centripetal force causes the outer portion to compress the spring and rise up allowing the tool holder to come loose, the best way to test it is to spin the router with the ATC without the tool holder, and when it starts to move upward back your speed down a min. of 20%.

I would definately not use it without a VS router, and do not use it with an aftermarket router variable speed adjustment, incase it fails (as mentioned on High-Tech website).

Joe

Joe,

I can't see the belt in your pictures.
Can you post a picture so we can see how you
have it connected?

Thanks

I got two belts and 4 pully's from SDP/SI they only had the 208 0.37 1/2" wide belts in stock so got two of those and made my own adjustment bar from elec. strut, used two bearing blocks, and i had a piece of acme 1/2-10 rod, and also had some extra dumpster clamps to go on each side of bearings.

Only angle i could get right now, and closeup of bearing area.

Joe

I got two belts and 4 pully's from SDP/SI they only had the 208 0.37 1/2" wide belts in stock so got two of those and made my own adjustment bar from elec. strut, used two bearing blocks, and i had a piece of acme 1/2-10 rod, and also had some extra dumpster clamps to go on each side of bearings.

Only angle i could get right now, and closeup of bearing area.

Joe

Joe,

Do you have three leadscrews on the gantry????? Or, Is the belt adjustment screw short and not connected to the bottom middle of the gantry???

Bill

only two one on each side the picture above is only a short piece of threaded rod for the pully's, a short piece i had left over.

only two one on each side the picture above is only a short piece of threaded rod for the pully's, a short piece i had left over.

Ok, I get it now. The cross bar an angle to put pressure on the belts. We just can't see the closer end of the middle threaded rod. You had me confused because you had 1/2"-8 2 start screws on the outside and 1/2"-10 screw in the middle.


Bill

Heh Joe is there a return policy on kits my kit is less then 30 days i wanna return it and get the New Joe 2007-R1.....:rainfro:




Pat...LOL

haha @ pat, I'm sure its fine, you just have to pay joe return shipping and a restocking fee.. and possibly a re-ninja-packing peanut fee as well.

I emailed joe the other day if he plans to eventually release the autocad models or not but I'm sure he is busy. Either way I would love to see any new videos from joe's adventures with the new machine. I'm sure now he will be able to nest much more parts together and put together those kits a lot faster as well.

Speaking of videos.. did jay drop off the face of the earth? I miss his "joe 06" tips and mods videos he made a few of.

haha @ pat, I'm sure its fine, you just have to pay joe return shipping and a restocking fee.. and possibly a re-ninja-packing peanut fee as well.

I emailed joe the other day if he plans to eventually release the autocad models or not but I'm sure he is busy. Either way I would love to see any new videos from joe's adventures with the new machine. I'm sure now he will be able to nest much more parts together and put together those kits a lot faster as well.

Speaking of videos.. did jay drop off the face of the earth? I miss his "joe 06" tips and mods videos he made a few of.


Yea I'ts been awhile since he made any new videos his last adventure was the vectric conference. On his site he still has links to his videos on video google.

Wow, great job! Love the pictures.

Thanks for the nice compliments guys,

I got the 3/8" adaptors from High-Tech and the ATC works great now, just ordered a 1/2" to 3/8" collet adapter from. MLCS Woodworking (woodcraft was out) even with shipping it came to about the same price woodcraft had theirs.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/adapbush.html

Joe

Did the 1/2" adapter have runout? Seems to me you'd be better off with a 1/2" shaft in your 1/2" collet, rather than a 3/8 shaft, in a 1/2" to 3/8" reducer, in a 1/2" collet.

Yes, the 1/2" had runout. I started mentioning it in post #65, was 1st thinking it was the router.

Joe

Why didn't he send you another 1/2" one that didn't have any runout?

He does not want to send any out until new ones are made.

Main Reason is cost, 14.00 for 10' and I am thinking of bolting some composite deck material to than and them mill the individual strips, then screw top onto that.

Joe


Joe,

Is that 1 1/2" Unistrut?

Bill

Joe,

Is that 1 1/2" Unistrut?

Bill

Yes.

Joe

[/URL]

Here is a quick cutting video i did. Machine setup at 100ipm.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr-nx3Ul3RM (<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pr-nx3Ul3RM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pr-nx3Ul3RM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>)

Joe

Nice job Joe it looks like it is running quite smooth.

Mark

I agree very Nice looks like your Vac attach works great also.

The machine is very smooth indeed, I am very happy with it.

There are a couple of things i want to change on the machine I will leave those for release when i do them. Until then there will be a few mod changes to improve the machine although it is working better than I expected.

Joe

Thanks for the video Joe. Its running well, looking forward to more videos

Jason

The machine is very smooth indeed, I am very happy with it.

There are a couple of things i want to change on the machine I will leave those for release when i do them. Until then there will be a few mod changes to improve the machine although it is working better than I expected.

Joe


This machine is simply amazing. Your designs just keep getting better and more importantly, more straight forward. It takes a smart man to make the complex, simple.


Bill

I am so fascinated by this machine I have decided it is the one I will build when Joe releases the plans. I may even begin to gather supplies......... The bug bites hard.

Bill

Cool video joe. Looks to be a promising design and machine. I can't wait until you release it. That 4x4 capability will make cutting kits a lot easier! One thing in particular I like is how you've strengthened the z axis a lot. It looks shorter and although you have less in your z it looks to be a lot stronger. That's the concern I've always had with the 2x4; the z axis is so far extended that if you don't set it up correctly when building it there can be flex present.

Joe,

It's been a while since you posted about your new machine.... Have you made any progress or new discoveries with the new machine? Did you get you auto tool changer going again??????? Don't leave us hanging.

Bill

I was literally was about to send Joe the funds thru Paypal for the 2006 model when I saw the 2007 model. I was wondering if anyone heard when or if he is going to make kits for the 2007 model. I was hoping to get something started soon.
Thanks Doug

I like the new design too, although I was planning something similar but with the epay linear rails that i've aquired.

Question? So I was thinking about drive system, ie. single vs twin screws and I understand the reasoning for 2 driven screws to eliminate racking. What I'm not sure that I get is the belt mechanism. If the motors are strong enough to cause racking problems if one loses steps, then the motors certainly could cause the belt to skip teeth under the same condition. It would seem that the belt would only save you if the power to one motor failed and the belt drive could actually spin the second screw-- in other words if the second motor was still under power but didn't turn (ie. the brakes are on) isn't it unlikely that the belt would be able to turn the screw. I maybe way off base here, if so can someone straighten me out.

Bumping to the top hoping for more details.
Doug:stickpoke

I have not finished the drawings for the machine i want to make sure i have everything done, I built the machine while experimenting with several ideas, so i have a hodge podge of drawings i need to get in order. and also want to have it modeled in solidworks for e-viewing.

I use the belt to only keep the machine from getting out of square incase one motor looses steps, it is not intended to have one motor turn the other, I do want to try and see if one motor on one side is enough using the belt, i just have not uncoupled one motor yet.

Joe

Your design is great so far and I didn't intent to be critical, I guess that I was just thinking out loud about the merits of your belt connection. I don't have my set up wired just yet so I didn't know if you can over come a motor still under power that somehow lost steps. My assumption is that a motor under power but not moving is actually braking, but maybe I'm confusing steppers with servos.

A real question for you is....are you still using the 1/2"-8 2start acme and is it robust enough for a larger and heavier gantry..was thinking about using that over a 4' and 5' span but it worried my alittle. Nooks are out of the budget at this point and I cant find a source of 3/4" 2 start scews.

Anyway keep up the great work,
Brian

Brian try

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Biotech1, give me a price on your kit and maybe I'll take it off your hands.

Pete

Been lurking on the forums off and on for a few years and joes machines have always looked awesome. I am getting pretty serious about building my own machine and your z-axis on this machine looks like the best one I have ever seen. I know where to get the v-bearings you used but how did you build the rails that move in those bearings?

thanks

Any news on the drawings Joe?

Steve

Any news on the drawings Joe?

Steve

:rainfro: Waiting anxiously as well. :)

Been lurking on the forums off and on for a few years and joes machines have always looked awesome. I am getting pretty serious about building my own machine and your z-axis on this machine looks like the best one I have ever seen. I know where to get the v-bearings you used but how did you build the rails that move in those bearings?

thanks


Well sorry for taking so long, The Z-Axis rails are actually The Shelving wall brackets, you get from homedepot or lowes, just cut to the length and bolted into the sides of the HDPE, the Shelf brackets seemed to be some sort of harded steel (harder than the standart angle iron you get) so wear is minimized.

Joe


I am going to be getting with brian and see if we can work out all the drawings.

Thanks, Joe

Hey Joe, great machine.

My question is about the Z-axis. What did you do to allow for adjustment of the V-bearings so that they fit the rails well and so the axis travels perpendicular to the table? Also, how is that setup working? Is it staying tight and true? It looks like it would be a cool mod for my 2006.

Mike

Hey Joe, great machine.

My question is about the Z-axis. What did you do to allow for adjustment of the V-bearings so that they fit the rails well and so the axis travels perpendicular to the table? Also, how is that setup working? Is it staying tight and true? It looks like it would be a cool mod for my 2006.

Mike


Yes the Z-Axis works very well, the bearings use a eccentric and concentrate bushings with 1/4" bolts through.

Joe

Yes the Z-Axis works very well, the bearings use a eccentric and concentrate bushings with 1/4" bolts through.

Joe

Did the bushings come with the bearings or did you find them somewhere else?

Joe,

Thanks for the response. Looking at your pictures it looks as if you are leaving the lower end of the z-screw unsupported? is this correct? If so how are you mounting the screw so that it does not move? I am going to use a variation of this z-axis on the CNC machine I am designing inspired by your joe2006 machine.

Thanks for all the inspiration.

Nick

Joe,
Congrats on another great CNC router design!
Although you haven't said so, I hope you are going to make a kit for this one as well. After the drawings and models are done of course.

Alright, back to lurking now...

Mike, if you mean the bushings for the V-bearings, they are sold separately, check out here....

http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=107

This is one place I know of that sells them.

Cheers
dewalt58

Mike, if you mean the bushings for the V-bearings, they are sold separately, check out here....

http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=107

This is one place I know of that sells them.

Cheers
dewalt58


That is exactly where i got mine 4 bearings and two each of the bushings, the two Concentric bushings are on the left and the two Eccentric bushings are on the right to pull the bearings snug against the Shelving mounting brackets.

Here is a picture so you can see how the Shelf bracket is used, This thing is as hard as a rock.

Joe

Joe,

Thanks for the response. Looking at your pictures it looks as if you are leaving the lower end of the z-screw unsupported? is this correct? If so how are you mounting the screw so that it does not move? I am going to use a variation of this z-axis on the CNC machine I am designing inspired by your joe2006 machine.

Thanks for all the inspiration.

Nick

That is correct, The bottom of the Z-Axis lead screw does not have a bearing on it, this allowed me to design the Z-Axis a little easier, with it being so short, there is no problem at all with it this way, it is supported at the top with a two bearings with clamps on both sides and then the Dumpster Anti-Backlash attached to the alumn. angle on the sliding Z-Axis holds the screw straight.

Joe

Joe,
I love this new design. The use of the aluminum extrusion is very cool. I read through this thread, but didn't see the specs for the extrusion. Thanks,
Dave

Damn i'm just getting my head around the 06' design then i see this. You've already said that the machine is quite sturdy so would i take that to mean that this design would be more suitable for machining metal than the 06 design? I know you said a while back that you hadn't tried it yet but whats your thoughts at the moment?
Also, this is probably going to be sacrilegious but in terms of build cost, i'm assuming that this design (even though its unfinished) would be more expensive to build than the 06'. I ask only because not all of us can afford to spend unholy amounts of cash on machines.

Joe,
I love this new design. The use of the aluminum extrusion is very cool. I read through this thread, but didn't see the specs for the extrusion. Thanks,
Dave


They are 2x4x72, pleanty strong enough for this machine. The shop bot uses larger ones, I'm sure since it is a commercial type machine they want to over design it so they will have not problems what so ever incase someone uses it out of the ordinary, and trys to get some sort of waranty for something they have accidently done.

Joe

Damn i'm just getting my head around the 06' design then i see this. You've already said that the machine is quite sturdy so would i take that to mean that this design would be more suitable for machining metal than the 06 design? I know you said a while back that you hadn't tried it yet but whats your thoughts at the moment?
Also, this is probably going to be sacrilegious but in terms of build cost, i'm assuming that this design (even though its unfinished) would be more expensive to build than the 06'. I ask only because not all of us can afford to spend unholy amounts of cash on machines.

Yes this machine will be more costly, I figure about 1.75 to 2x the cost, this is just a figure, you have to understand, I do not know the exact cost without sitting down and do a work up because i desigh as i go on machines, Build, design, build design, build design, to get the best working machine. You know research and development. I prob. spend the most on machines than anyone else.

Joe

Well we are working on making the machine even better, with the new mods i am doing the new machine should perform just as good as a shop bot if not better, for a fraction of the cost to build.

I am working in spare time while the machine is working, So i will be building it and taking exact notes.

Joe

:rainfro: Dang it good thing i decided to wait... What kind of new mods are you doing will i be able to make the parts with my current joe2006... It just keeps getting better and better--any specifics you willing to tell will we need to upgrade our stepper motors bigger lead screw???


Joe2006- Topeka Kansas
Pat..:cheers:

As the traditions continues you can use one machine to build the next. Needless to say this one has less MDF, more metal and more power. Even so, no welding, (K.I.S.S. method) as always..

Specifics? We are still working those out. Updates to come, but it will be one heck of a solid machine.

Updates??

Joe,
this is actually my official 1st post on the zone, been lurking for a while trying to decide what to build. I had talked to you about a kit over on the yahoo site for the 2006 but this design is even more interesting. I do have a question about the bearings on the x and y axis tho, are you using the same type of bearing as on the 2006? And did you consider using linear bearings that slide in the Tslot like shown on Faztek's site? I'm sure you thought of linear but maybe the rod/bearing setup similar to the 2006 is a bit more cost effictive. Just curious how you decided on the setup you went with and if the choice was driven more by cost or performance. Or both :). Sorry if this if this has been covered or seems like a dumb questions but i'm just getting into the world of cnc and am trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can before building.
Thanks
Tim

Well I did away with the Skate bearings, and I will go ahead and spill the beans , I am using V-Bearings on all Axis, this is the major Mod i am doing.With the v-bearings it is much easier to mount the rails to the 80/20. Also using a different leadscrew. Do not get me wrong the 4x4 i have now is great, But i wanted it better and make plans that would be on a higher level for a Great DIY Machine which will perform just a good as a shopbot or others at less that 1/5th the cost.

Its time to step it up a notch.

Joe

with the v-bearings it is much easier to mount to the 80/20.

Joe,
Thanks for the reply, that is great!! I am so thankful for all of your hard work, I can't wait to see the mods and your final machine. I also can't wait to see the final plans and or Kit you may offer. I will most definatley support your hard work by purchasing a kit for this machine, if you offer one. You should post up a paypal link for people to donate to your R&D :) !! I am anxious to see the final beast and get started on a machine of my own, but take your time and do it right, it will be well worth the wait! If there is anyting I can do to help drop me an email, I can help with cad details or a pdf manual, mat'l list yada yada yada...........sometimes the more daunting task of a new design is getting all the drawings in order. Of coarse having someone else help might just slow you down too! Thanks again and I think I speak for all of us when I say good work and we are lucky to have an asset like you here on the forums.

Joe,
I have one more question for you if you don't mind sharing, are you keeping the same size extrusion on the updated machine? I found some 25-5010 x72"80/20 on the garage and it is pretty reasonable. I am starting to scavange some pcs together and just wanted to see if that is what your still using for the 3 rails. I figured if so i'd grab 3 pcs while I found them. I'll wait to get the rest of the hardware until your done with your design!
Thanks
Tim

Joe,
I have one more question for you if you don't mind sharing, are you keeping the same size extrusion on the updated machine? I found some 25-5010 x72"80/20 on the garage and it is pretty reasonable. I am starting to scavange some pcs together and just wanted to see if that is what your still using for the 3 rails. I figured if so i'd grab 3 pcs while I found them. I'll wait to get the rest of the hardware until your done with your design!
Thanks
Tim

Yes the design still uses Three 80/20 (they have them for 47 dollars each now, Mike told me they found some more when i bought the last ones from him and he would put as many as he could in the e-bay store) they are used for both the X-and Y Axis of the machine.

Joe

Well I did away with the Skate bearings, and I will go ahead and spill the beans , I am using V-Bearings on all Axis, this is the major Mod i am doing.With the v-bearings it is much easier to mount the rails to the 80/20. Also using a different leadscrew. Do not get me wrong the 4x4 i have now is great, But i wanted it better and make plans that would be on a higher level for a Great DIY Machine which will perform just a good as a shopbot or others at less that 1/5th the cost.

Its time to step it up a notch.

Joe

with the v-bearings it is much easier to mount to the 80/20.

Will the V-bearing modification be backwards compatible? I have already started cutting the pipe mounts... I was growing impatient and have a machine already.

V-Bearings add a lot of expense to the machines final cost.

Bill

I used 4 already for the Z-Axis, and with this one I got 12 more for the X and Y Axis so at 11 dollars each, that came out to an extra $132.00, now from that cost remove the cost of 24 skate bearings (lets say 25.00) and the cost of the HDPE for the old version Pipe rail suports (about 30.00) not to mention the time to cut, drill and tap the HDPE and Also ensuring the Tap on the Pipe rails are perfectly straight. So the cost difference to me was well worth it.

Joe

That is exactly where i got mine 4 bearings and two each of the bushings, the two Concentric bushings are on the left and the two Eccentric bushings are on the right to pull the bearings snug against the Shelving mounting brackets.

Here is a picture so you can see how the Shelf bracket is used, This thing is as hard as a rock.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Really nice machine. Congrats. I like the idea of using the V bearing for the Z axis guide. Do you mind telling me what does it mean by the Concentric and Eccentric bushing? I went to check the website but they didn't explain the difference. I am just curious how the V-groove bearing can eliminate play in the guide if the distance between the two bearings left and right isn't exactly the same, or are they? Thanks.

Alex

Alex,
Concentric bushings are on the left and the two Eccentric bushings are on the right, what it means is the bushing hole is not in the center on the eccentric, its offset, we all know how to drill offset holes...LOL. So when you twist it, it moves from side to side getting rid of play on one side. The concentric bushings are drilled dead center, as long as they are laid out straight on one side of Z, the other side will pull in to it getting rid of play. Very simplistic!!

Cheers
dewalt58

well the ups man visited me today and dropped off 3 nice pcs of 80/20. dang near 50 lbs worth. now all i need is well..........everything else :) and some time to work on it.

Yeah the 8020 box will weigh a lot but just imagine if it was structural steel; aluminum is light! 8020 extrusions rock though, they simply can't be matched :D

Well I did away with the Skate bearings, and I will go ahead and spill the beans , I am using V-Bearings on all Axis, this is the major Mod i am doing.With the v-bearings it is much easier to mount the rails to the 80/20. Also using a different leadscrew. Do not get me wrong the 4x4 i have now is great, But i wanted it better and make plans that would be on a higher level for a Great DIY Machine which will perform just a good as a shopbot or others at less that 1/5th the cost.

Its time to step it up a notch.

Joe

with the v-bearings it is much easier to mount to the 80/20.

Hey Joe its been a while since I posted in here I see you are plugging away still will it ever end LOL nice machine LOVE IT! About the V bearings anything like the mechmate?

Rob

The design is pretty much the same layout as the present 4x4 but with the mods to incorporate the bearings and a few other changes. It always seems when you make a change it has an effect of other aspects of the machine, I had to redraw all parts and ensure of their workings and alignment as i build the machine This is the time consuming part and not to mention the Time in designing, trouble and materials i will be able to save those who build the machine.

Joe

Here is a quick video of jogging at 360ipm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KJ-qIW1s3A


Joe

that is awesome joe, did you do the entire z axis out of aluminum? I can't wait to see your final machine. I drool everytime I see bits and pcs of the 4X4 and dream about getting started on my own!!

Joe,
First off, great new machine. Looking forward to the second unveiling.

I watched both videos and I noticed on the 4x4 into video, you pan the camera to the mach3 screen. Noticeably missing is a real cool "auto zero" screen and macro. Finding the top of the part with this macro and mach3 buttons is just so sweet. You need to check it out.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=286673&postcount=1

Dave

Joe,
First off, great new machine. Looking forward to the second unveiling.

I watched both videos and I noticed on the 4x4 into video, you pan the camera to the mach3 screen. Noticeably missing is a real cool "auto zero" screen and macro. Finding the top of the part with this macro and mach3 buttons is just so sweet. You need to check it out.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=286673&postcount=1

Dave


yes that will be my 1st thing to do, it is very simple to implement.

Joe

that is awesome joe, did you do the entire z axis out of aluminum? I can't wait to see your final machine. I drool everytime I see bits and pcs of the 4X4 and dream about getting started on my own!!


MDF painted with hammer paint, the wood of the Hybrid.

Joe

MDF painted with hammer paint, the wood of the Hybrid.

Joe

thanks, Couldn't really tell with the lighting in the video, it looked the same color as the 80/20, that explains it! Nice looking machine keep up the good work.

Ok Joe, you have us all drooling ... any more details on the changes? is that angle iron the the V-bearing are riding on ? any partial listing of parts so we can start collecting ? lets see I got sucked in this time last year. I suppose I would like to get part for this one. I am going to need another winter project :)

looking good like the speed, how bout another video from the otherside :)

thanks for the Video


Kent

Joe,
Good move with Vbearings all around. It really does make things so much simpler and cleaner.

I'm still watching.
Steve

Heh Joe. I know you busy with all kinds of builds . I sit waiting patiently for you to spread the plans to the world. I was just wondering is it possible to go bigger with the x axis what would be the max if I'm buying 6 foot pieces of 80/20. could i get a sound 60" out ofthe x axis. Or IMo might cause a wobble in the all thread-- is was thinking of a rack and pinion replacement..

No because we buy 6' already (72"), then you take from that, the bearing mounts, motor mounts, gantry width and the distance out to the cutting tool, you are left with a little more than 48" you would need a 10' length and then switch to rack and pinion. for that axis.

Joe

Nnice design!

Joe,
Does your Y and X axis still use the pipe bearings as shown in this picture? I just scanned all the pictures in this thread and didn't find any difference. I seem to remember you mentioning a change to vee bearings. I know they Z axis has the vee, but what about Y and X?
Thanks,
Dave

The new design uses V-Bearings on all Axis, 16 total. I did this for the simplicity of it, and works very well.

Joe

Are there pictures out here yet? Sure would like to see them.

Not yet, I'm finishing out my Z-Axis and may have machine done this weekend for test run.

Joe

Here is my controller box, same type i had with Model 2006, HobbyCNC 4 axis with 36v psu.

I just got 4 - G201's. I will be building another controller box to test how they work also.

Joe

Ok, just so you know how the machine moves, here is a quick video of the X and Y Axis 200ipm, Low quality video, until i get the machine done.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOTRZ8q_ew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOTRZ8q_ew)

Joe

Awesome Joe great job I can not wait to see the finished product

Rick

Here is a shot of the Z-Axis installed, and now jogging all axis at 200ipm, Hobbycnc Pro board, two axis slaved in mach3, 36vdc power supply.

I Will also be tying 4 Gecko 201's when the machine is finished to compare, i believe the Geckos will give me more power and speed, but for the price and to start with the HobbyCNC board works fine, and I can use their 8 wire 305 motors with the geckos since they are both bi-polar and unipolar (425 oz/in in bi-polar) and in the picture you can see i went with terminal blocks when hooking up the motors so i can easily change motor wireing from unipolat and bi-polar. This way I can just have two controllar boxes.

Joe

looks like you've been busy this weekend :) can't wait to see the maiden voyage!! Great work! Looks real sharp.

Joe, are the V-rollers running on plain steel angle?

Joe, are the V-rollers running on plain steel angle?

Yes, 3/4" steel, If you look at the standard steel you will notice that the edges are actually rounded, I took a hand file and ran it along the length of the rails to make it smoother and it puts a very slight slant to the edges, this was enough in my opinion.

I know guys at Mechmate uses a skate bearing slide rig placed at a 45 with a grinder on it to get the angle correct, But for this I do not think it is warranted the wear will be very little if you even notice it, and for the price and the way i have them mounted, if i have to replace them it would be very easy. (for example out of all the hundreds of gas pipe and skate bearing machines out there of many designs how many have actually replaced the pipes due to wear?).

Joe

Excellent design. Are you using one or two eccentric bushings?

Excellent design. Are you using one or two eccentric bushings?

Two concentric bushings on one side and two eccentric bushings on other side for adjustment.

Hi Joe,
I have been following your progress on this design. I am especially fond of it. I have been looking at different 80/20 designs for a jumping off point. I do have a couple of questions though. As in all the other designs out there how do you adjust the rail heights along the axis to eliminate play? It would seem to me that the rails would need to be parallel to within a thousand or so to eliminate any sloppiness or binding. Or is it negated by spreading the bearings out by a good distance? Also, being unfamiliar with the V-Bearings, are they designed to be able to take a side load? I can't seem to find much info about them.
Thanks for your help
Andy

Also, being unfamiliar with the V-Bearings, are they designed to be able to take a side load? I can't seem to find much info about them.

go to www.bwc.com (http://www.bwc.com) and download their Dual Vee catalog. It has all the info you'll need.

Hi Joe,
I have been following your progress on this design. I am especially fond of it. I have been looking at different 80/20 designs for a jumping off point. I do have a couple of questions though. As in all the other designs out there how do you adjust the rail heights along the axis to eliminate play? It would seem to me that the rails would need to be parallel to within a thousand or so to eliminate any sloppiness or binding. Or is it negated by spreading the bearings out by a good distance? Also, being unfamiliar with the V-Bearings, are they designed to be able to take a side load? I can't seem to find much info about them.
Thanks for your help
Andy

Not sure what you mean by adjust height, They are fixed with the 80/20, and i use a jig or guide on the drill press to drill the holes all the same in the center of the angle, then the t-nuts ensure the bolts are centered in the 80/20 slot. I then measure the rails parallel to each other during assembly. this sets up the basis of the machine and is built from there.

The v-bearings are made to take some side loads, they have been proven in many designs to work fine, i.e. mechmate, shopbot, ez-router and many others.

Joe

Is there any reason why I couldn't build something like this with just one lead screw down the middle, just like the 2006?

I'm looking at all these pictures and ideas, and I'm thinking that I may be much more successful in building something accurate out of the 8020 vs MDF.

-J

Is there any reason why I couldn't build something like this with just one lead screw down the middle, just like the 2006?

I'm looking at all these pictures and ideas, and I'm thinking that I may be much more successful in building something accurate out of the 8020 vs MDF.

-J

Because of the expanded distance of the gantry it is better to have two lead screws to prevent racking of the gantry, thats why i have both lead screws tied together and motors slaved.

Joe

Joe

Will you be providing plans for your 4 x 4 machine? If you have previously please provide a link to help this old man out. Thank you.

Joe

Will you be providing plans for your 4 x 4 machine? If you have previously please provide a link to help this old man out. Thank you.


last update he was still working on the final design and working the bugs out. He was still working on the final assembly of the machine this weekend so I assume once he gets the machine running how he likes then he will have to sit down to complete the drawings and mat'l list. Just stay patient and keep watching this thread!!

Thanks. Thought I might of overlooked it when I read thru the thread again.

Yes, I will have a complete set of drawings, 3d and 2d, plus a build guide and every part listed.

On the CNC Model 2006, i just provided dwg files and just an assembly guide, and i believe we are getting close to 75 units people have built, allot we have not even seen yet, I know a few who are in the process of building it from the drawing files.

I have descided to make the plans very detailed and build guide with detailed pictures drawings and part listing. Now with all this work not to mention money I have spend exploring ideas and working out the simplicity of the machine I will be selling the plans which will be in a PDF format. I am very confident in the machine and with a complete set of plans it will take out the guess work not to mention the cost of materials and time waisted trying to get the machine built to specs.

So as not to get to involved in a discussion here about it and not cloud this thread, I will ask if you (everyone) can e-mail me (joecnc2006 at yahoo dot com) your thoughts and what you think a good price would be for a complete set of build plans. I know those of you who have built a machine on your own can relate to how much a set of plans could have helped you save time, sweet and materials. I will keep a tally on the e-mails and post the results here.

Thanks for all your kind words it helps keep me motivated to provide a good DIY machine to everyone at a lot less price than it would cost to buy one out right, Plus building it ourselves we can repair improve or do just about anything with our own machines.

Joe

Joe,

Have you checked your e-mail or private messages?

Thanks,

Matt

Joe,

Have you checked your e-mail or private messages?

Thanks,

Matt

Yes i will send you an e-mail shortly.

Joe

I decided to go with the k2 mount and the Hitachi router again for now. it bolts right up to my rear Z-Axis plate i made, with adjustable height holes. The mount is very nice quality.

Z-Axis complete all motors wired up, now just need to do some cable management, then make the cutting bed. and she is ready to roll.

Joe

Hi Joe,
I saw your video with the rapids over 300 IPM. That's impressive. What did you change from your original setup to allow this dramatic increase in speed. The original post said you were running at 120 IPM on the rapids. Are you still running the 425 oz motors with the 1/2-8 two start? By running higher speeds does it limit the resolution of the machine?
In reference to my earlier post asking about adjustment of the rails I was concerned that without a way to adjust them they might bind but I assume these bearings will still function fine with some preload.

I am using 1/2-10 5 start, with the Hobbycnc kit. resolution is still good with microstepping

V-Bearings work real well.

I am using 1/2-10 5 start, with the Hobbycnc kit. resolution is still good with microstepping

V-Bearings work real well.

does that mean you get an inch out of two revolutions? ....cool.
The rail you are using with the v-bearings....is it just standard angle iron that you have smoothed out?

does that mean you get an inch out of two revolutions? ....cool.
The rail you are using with the v-bearings....is it just standard angle iron that you have smoothed out?

yes 2tpi.

the angle iron was asked in post number #158 by ger21, you may want to read the all thread and you will get allot of your answers and we are not duplicating our efforts.

Joe

Sorry about that. I thought I had read it all. Apparently missed that. I have been looking at so much my head is swimming (nuts)

Yes i will send you an e-mail shortly.

Joe

I have not seen anything at this point.

Hi Joe, Just curious will you also be able to offer a kit of the parts you cut on the mill? Like the wood and HDPE parts? The router mount and what not? Also whats the purpose of switching from the Hitachi to the PorterCable router? I have the same Hitachi currently and was planning on using that. Another thing I was thinking of is there some sort of motor you can buy that would allow Mach3 to control the turn on/off and the speed of it? I haven't looked into this too much yet. If you do a kit I would definitely be interested in purchasing the kit and plans.

Yes i will offer a kit for those who can not cut the parts them selfs. I did not switch to the porter cable, the pictures above shows the same Hitachi, I bought the router mount from K2CNC it is very good quality, and the material alone would have cost me quite a bit so it was worth it to me to buy it, the Z Axis rear plate i made has the same bolt pattern rear plate has the same bolt pattern.

Oh I thought you said you would switch to the porter cable later or something. Is the porter cable just lighter?

no i meant i may switch later on, to the 3.25 hp porter cable, it is a heavier router.

joe

Oh so you were going for a more powerful router. I sent you a PM by the way.

How long does that aluminum channel come in? Like max length? How hard would it be to extend the table to be able to take a 4'x8' sheet of mdf? Or a 4'x8' cutting area? It should just be a matter of making the table longer right?

well two things, you will need longer extrusions and you have to switch to rack and pinion, it's been discussed before, and in the future would go more towards the shopbot route with r&p instead of leadscrews as used now.. aluminum channel? Do you mean the 8020? You can get it from 8020 surplus (their ebay store) as we did in I think 72" lengths, we didn't even cut them down.. very stable, straight and slick extrusions..

Yes the 8020 extrusion is that the longest length it comes in? Also what is a rack and pinion design? All I've seen used on the forums is the leadscrew. I haven't been here long though.

http://shopbottools.com/prs_alphaexplore.htm you can see one of shopbot's latest to get an idea of what a 4x8 joe's would look like, they use some pretty industrial extrusions though, those will set you back a bit. I have found that the ones used thus far as extremely strong and durable when used together with the rest of the design. The motor gets mounted and moves with the gantry or on the table, instead of being mounted stationary on the end of the axis. It moves more or less like this. But as said before by joe, if ever expanded to 4x8, going this route woudl be reccomended. http://www.atlantadrives.com/splitpinion.jpg

Hi Joe,

I'm a newbie at this stuff but fairly proficient at woodworking. I'm also an amateur luthier and have lots of ideals for using cnc to that end.

You're 4 * 4 cnc machine looks amazing and you seem to have worked out a lot of the tough problems. Do you possibly have any cad files and specs of your fantastic design? I would be happy to pay for them. Your work is inspirational.

Cheers,

Richard Cohen

He's currently in the process of putting together a build guide and will be selling it. He hasn't decided on a price yet.

So with the rack and pinion you don't need to have one on each side? At least thats how shopbot has it. It doesn't look to complicated at all really.

Dougie,
Are you saying the shopbot has only one rack and pinion. On one side? I think it's a dual drive. One rack and pinion on each side.
Dave

Ok thats what I was asking as its hard to tell from those pics.

So with the rack and pinion you don't need to have one on each side? At least thats how shopbot has it. It doesn't look to complicated at all really.

Yes One rack and motor on each side, On the gantry you can still use the leadscrew option. Also with a longer span you will need to beef up the 80/20 to prevent sag, this can be done with a steel plate 1/4"x5" wide for a distance of 4' in the center if you want to do a splice of two of the 80/20's one on each side. this plus the angle on top and bottom for the rails should be sufficient, but this is another design change. we can discuss in a mod section of we like. I would rather prefer this to stay on topic of the present 4x4 machine.

Joe

how long do you think for your plans I know I am bugging but your the one dangling the carrot LOL


Rob

hopefully two weeks or so, it is very time consuming adding every single washer and bolt.

Just in time for Christmas. Santa will be making me happy this year.

Just so ya'll know I will be providing very detailed drawings and e-drawings, this will eliminate any question about the build and construction of the machine.

For example I have even drawn up the K2 Hitachi Router mount. my drawing and original picture.

Now all I need to find a 3d model or draw is the Router itself.

Anyone volunteers? LOL


Joe


EDIT: the original picture is from K2CNC, it is the one on their website for sale.

My PC 892 model is in the Share your file Art or Part thread. Is that the same size as the Hitachi, 3-1/2"?

My PC 892 model is in the Share your file Art or Part thread. Is that the same size as the Hitachi, 3-1/2"?


I will look for it or is it something you can e-mail me? The Hitachi is 3.3" just about exactly, so I can just put your in for aesthetic purposes for now.

Here is the machine thus far, i just need to add the Z-Axis carriage and some misc. parts then finish to this point, then make the drawing files from the 3d drawing, should be fast and easy, and also work more on the instructions.

Joe

Hows this, a PC was available on 3d central, and i was able to change the dia. of the body to 3.3"

Joe

Looks good to me.

Joe,

That's a good looking router bracket. Did you machine the aluminum on your 4x4?

I bought it from K2CNC, but i will be cutting one on the 4x4 to test.

hopefully two weeks or so, it is very time consuming adding every single washer and bolt.

any headway on the price yet? want to know if I can talk the wife into letting me buy them.:)

Well what I'm thinking about doing is, when i get the Model 100% complete on the machine this weekend, I was thinking of having a min. charge (_________) for the E-Drawing of the machine, this will Give people allot of Ideas to build on their own or let you evaluate if this is what you want to build, Then if you want the whole set, there will be an upgrade charge for complete drawings and Construction Manual. This will also let someone spead out their cost. Or if you like you can wait and get everything all at one time.

How does that sound and maybe e-mail me a price you think, I have one in mind and those who read this before i eddited it will know what i was thinking.?

I EDITED THE TEXT ABOVE AS NOT TO TALK ABOUT ANY SET PRICE ON THE CNCZONE, NO ONE HAS MENTIONED IT TO ME, BUT I THINK IT IS AGAINST THE CNCZONE POLICE TO TALK ABOUT PRICING OTHER THAN IN SELLING SECTION.


Joe

Joe,

Will the E drawings include a Bill of materials or will that only be in the complete package? I have been ordering parts a bit at a time but the Christmas bonus just got here.

Bill

Joe,

Will the E drawings include a Bill of materials or will that only be in the complete package? I have been ordering parts a bit at a time but the Christmas bonus just got here.

Bill

That will be with complete drawings.

3d Model is done, with every single bolt, screw, washers, etc.

Which is live and which is memorex? :)

Joe

Very nice job. You definitely have some Solidworks skills.

(You use Solidworks right?)

yes at work i use autodesk civil 3d 2008, and solidworks 2008

And now the whole machine.


Joe

any ideas on the price yet for just the materials? Not including electronics?

Thanks!
-J

Joe,

I've been following your progress with much interest. I started cutting pieces for the Joe2006 model right before you started work on the 4x4 Hybrid machine. With your announcement I stopped work on the '2006 in anticipation of the larger machine since I already have a working JGRO CNC table.

To make a long story short, since I've waited this long I'll opt to wait a little longer and purchase the full set of plans, BOM, eDrawings, and whatever other materials you decide to make available.

I thank you in advance, and I have no qualms about helping to compensate for your time and hard work. I patiently await your plan package price and release date.

Don't rush on my account,

I agree I will wait for the whole package I am sure it will be well worth the wait just keep teasing us with the videos please!!!


Rob

Hi Joe!
It looks like a nice device you are building.
I started a similar project years ago and I’m still banging my head against the Z-axis. Can’t find a simple and sturdy solution that fits within the budget I decided to keep for this one. Any solution would be considered…
Like you, I used tubes for rails at the X and Y-axis, but I bolted the tube directly onto the aluminum profile (just drilled holes straight trough the tube, big enough for the threaded part of the bolts. It took a while to get the screws in place since the “free” hole was just big enough to let the hex-key in…
My solution have a drawback: the bending torque around the Y-axis might eventually cause problems since the total distance between the upper and the lower rails will be less than you have. Did you make the stands for the rail (tube) yourselves or are they available “of the shelf”?
A close-up on the rails and the bearings would be nice.
/jan

Hi Joe!
It looks like a nice device you are building.
I started a similar project years ago and I’m still banging my head against the Z-axis. Can’t find a simple and sturdy solution that fits within the budget I decided to keep for this one. Any solution would be considered…
Like you, I used tubes for rails at the X and Y-axis, but I bolted the tube directly onto the aluminum profile (just drilled holes straight trough the tube, big enough for the threaded part of the bolts. It took a while to get the screws in place since the “free” hole was just big enough to let the hex-key in…
My solution have a drawback: the bending torque around the Y-axis might eventually cause problems since the total distance between the upper and the lower rails will be less than you have. Did you make the stands for the rail (tube) yourselves or are they available “of the shelf”?
A close-up on the rails and the bearings would be nice.
/jan

If you are referring to the original 4x4, yes i made the pipe rail standoff's myself 8" o.c., and also used 1/2" Gas pipe sanded and smoothed, Now i use the angle iron and v-bearings, yes the rails are closer together now, but with the v-bearings it works well.

Joe

Joe,

I patiently await your plan package price and release date.

Don't rush on my account,

Don't listen to him Joe!

Hurry! Hurry!

:)

Bill

Don't listen to him Joe!

Hurry! Hurry!

:)

Bill

Bill,

You need some lessons from Master Po,

"Patience, Grasshopper."

How about we come to a compromise with Joe? Joe can 'Hurry' with your set of plans and take his time with those of us who are willing to wait. As long as we both ante up at the going rate, we'll all be happy. :) ;)

Just havin' fun with you, Bill.

Although... I wouldn't mind paying for a complete package up front and getting the contents, starting with a complete BOM, as it is finished and becomes available. With the BOM I'd be able to determine what materials I have at my disposal and what items needed to be purchased so I could start the 'hunting & gathering' phase. By the time I obtained all the materials plus a few spares I'd imagine that Joe would be finished, or nearly finished, with his drawings and assembly instructions.

Cheers,

Bill,

You need some lessons from Master Po,

"Patience, Grasshopper."

Although... I wouldn't mind paying for a complete package up front and getting the contents, starting with a complete BOM, as it is finished and becomes available.

Cheers,

:) I agree. I am just having fun and chomping at the bit a little. A BOM will allow me to place less orders for material and will allow me to get my stuff together before the Christmas bonus finds an alternate home.....Money like all things tends to go from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration. ;-)

Bill

Here is a sample of a sheet created. This is just a sample of details for the plans, what ya think?

BOM will be attached to every assembly, to make it easier when building that portion. as well as an overall BOM.

This PDF was saved on 8.5x11 sheet, But Originals will be very crisp and saved on 24x36 sheets in pdf form, so they can be printed at any kinko's etc.

Joe

Looks very nice! You getting close? Or still lots of work to do on it?

Oh by the way I sent you an email yesterday.

Looks very nice! You getting close? Or still lots of work to do on it?

Oh by the way I sent you an email yesterday.


Still allot of work to do, I want the plans to be very detailed and a good visual of the machine, to aid in building it.

Joe

Yeah sounds good! I won't start building until probably march or so. I may start accumulating parts in the meantime. I'm still undecided on what I want to do. Looking at steel machines and what not at the moment. A machine thats completely aluminum extrusion is just far to expensive :) The steel ones seem to be very solid though. Yours have very nice detailed instructions though so may end up swinging that direction simply because its my first machine and what not.

Yeah sounds good! I won't start building until probably march or so. I may start accumulating parts in the meantime. I'm still undecided on what I want to do. Looking at steel machines and what not at the moment. A machine thats completely aluminum extrusion is just far to expensive :) The steel ones seem to be very solid though. Yours have very nice detailed instructions though so may end up swinging that direction simply because its my first machine and what not.

Simplicity is best in conjunction with cost.

Here is a sample of a sheet created. This is just a sample of details for the plans, what ya think?

BOM will be attached to every assembly, to make it easier when building that portion. as well as an overall BOM.

This PDF was saved on 8.5x11 sheet, But Originals will be very crisp and saved on 24x36 sheets in pdf form, so they can be printed at any kinko's etc.

Joe

Joe,

Are you intending to sell an electronic file which the end user must print or are you planning to offer a printed plan?


Bill

Joe,

Are you intending to sell an electronic file which the end user must print or are you planning to offer a printed plan?


Bill

Electronic files, because the PDF's can be brought into v-carve or other programs and you can choose the lines to generate the tool paths, and also can delete out all diminsions right inside V-carve or use the layor manager. for those who have an existing machine and want to cut parts. I can also offer printer plans, but may be cheaper to have that done locally.

Joe

Here is a sample of a sheet created. This is just a sample of details for the plans, what ya think?

BOM will be attached to every assembly, to make it easier when building that portion. as well as an overall BOM.

This PDF was saved on 8.5x11 sheet, But Originals will be very crisp and saved on 24x36 sheets in pdf form, so they can be printed at any kinko's etc.

Joe

Excellent job, Joe. The drawings look to be very detailed and nicely done. It'll be reminiscent of my JGRO build only bigger, better, sturdier and faster. COOL! The great thing about PDFs is that, for vector based drawing files, they can be scaled up, or down, to fit almost any page size without losing a bit of the detail.

I'm definitely looking forward to the plans. Please take care when driving. Have any injuries, no matter how slight, taken care of immediately. In anticipation of your future cash flow, hire a food taster, NOW. If you smoke, stop now. If you drink, do so only for medicinal purposes. ;) I'm seriously thinking of starting a fund to raise enough money so that we can purchase you a full set of body armor. I don't want anything to happen to you that would delay or stop your progress.

Just kidding! :) Be sure to take some time to smell the roses (or whatever it is you like to smell). I used to work at a place where a lady called in to say that she wasn't coming in to work that day because she was going to sit on her front porch and watch the flowers bloom. :o

Later,

Ok, Here is a sample of the way the drawings will be finally looking like, with details and dimensions, you can practically build the machine just by looking at the plans (Very self explanatory).

Hope they will be up to everyones expectations.

Joe

Awesome drawings. Nice job.

Ok, Here is a sample of the way the drawings will be finally looking like, with details and dimensions, you can practically build the machine just by looking at the plans (Very self explanatory).

Hope they will be up to everyones expectations.

Joe

i'll take a set of dwgs.............oh and put me down for a kit of the mdf and hdpe parts as well..........or if your feeling like santa this time of year feel free to drop it all down my chimney :) Look's nice, can't wait to see the final prints and or price list!!

Joe:

The drawings look great and you can put me down as another guaranteed customer of the plan set. My only comment is to watch the default setting on the number of decimal places in the dimensions. (4) decimal places infer a degree of accuracy that I am sure is not intended.:)

Wolfspaw