This is portable cnc cutting machine
Ahhhh the Chinese Swiss Alps it brings back memories........... Wrong thread though...huh

Did my 1st 3D work with Aspire Saturday, took almost 6 hrs, but David mentioned my vel, and accel. was wrong so i will tweek them and should be able to cut faster. just not starting to do 3D. or 2.5d :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUFYI595_mU

Joe

Joe-

What did you use to hold your piece down to the table?

I'm pretty sure he used carpet tape. Works very good. And for all those wondering about if they should go ahead and buy the plans, I for one STRONGLY recommend it. The B.O.M. "build of materials" is very concise and is a joy to follow. The build goes really quick especially if you follow the plans and have the material ready. The support forum is OUTSTANDING!!! There are a bunch of guys there who are happy to help, sometimes a little too eager to help, and me being one of them. The modifications that guys have done is awesome.
This is my first cnc machine and I am so happy that I ran across Joe's 4x4 hybrid design!!! I hope all who are considering doing this should should go ahead and give it a go. It is a very gratifying experience knowing that you built something that will work very well, and better than expected.

Just my 2 cents,

James

Thanks James for the compliments, we have guite a few machines built now and working well.

on workpieces like the 3d work I did use the carpet tape, the fiber kind, and works excellent.

Joe

Did my 1st 3D work with Aspire Saturday, took almost 6 hrs, but David mentioned my vel, and accel. was wrong so i will tweek them and should be able to cut faster. just not starting to do 3D. or 2.5d :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUFYI595_mU

Joe

I haven't dug into the Aspire demo at all yet...but wow that looks impressive!
It looks to me like someone got a free sample pack from signfoam.com. :) The part that isn't obvious is: what kind of bit did you use? It looks like it's just a .125" ballnose..

Oh, and thanks for showing off my machine Joe! I bought one of the quick change chucks you mentioned a few posts back, but it's a .5" collet......where did you get the adapter?

Thanks! Jim

I haven't dug into the Aspire demo at all yet...but wow that looks impressive!
It looks to me like someone got a free sample pack from signfoam.com. :) The part that isn't obvious is: what kind of bit did you use? It looks like it's just a .125" ballnose..

Oh, and thanks for showing off my machine Joe! I bought one of the quick change chucks you mentioned a few posts back, but it's a .5" collet......where did you get the adapter?

Thanks! Jim

I got the adapter at the same place its a 1/2" to 1/4" adapter, got all three parts from them, chuck, adapter and T-wrench.

Yea had the signfoam for over 2 yrs already. good time to try it out, the stuff is great except when cut turns to sand all over your router.

The bit was just a 1/8" CMT round nose.

Joe

DOG GONE IT! How the heck did I miss that. Oh well. One adapter is now in the mail. Luckily, I own stock in UPS.

I got my signfoam demo kit a couple weeks ago, but I haven't tried anything with it. That kind of puts a damper on the sign business. :)

Cheers! Jim

DOG GONE IT! How the heck did I miss that. Oh well. One adapter is now in the mail. Luckily, I own stock in UPS.

I got my signfoam demo kit a couple weeks ago, but I haven't tried anything with it. That kind of puts a damper on the sign business. :)

Cheers! Jim

Can you point me to a link for the signfoam demo kit?

Bill

I googled this , My mind not so good, don't remeber if this is how I got mine or not. but this should work for you

http://www.signfoam.com/distributory.php?mode=from_location


Kent

I finally got around to changing out the LoveJoy's with the Dumpster Acme Couples, They are great quality and do not know why I took so long to change them out, I will certainly choose them again over the LoveJoy's any day. I Highly Recommend them.

Joe

Cut this one tonight:

8"x11"
4hrs.
1/4" round nose
5% stepover

Cut it out, then just did some light work with Propane Torch, to start to get the clear effect back in it, will work a little more with the torch.

1st picture is right after cut, no sanding
2nd picture is after a just a few minutes with torch.

Joe

was looking on Joe's web site at the kit for the Hybrid, i saw the MDF & HDPE parts but were are the Aluminum extrusions and the steel unistrut?... is there a complete kit without the electric's....

thanks

rigrandy1959@yahoo.com

Most buy the Aluminum on Ebay from 8020's surplus store, and get the unistrut from Lowes or Home Depot.

Joes Kit comes with the mdf and hdpe parts that are cut out with the machine you will be building. He has an excellent b.o.m. that details all that you will need to get and how to put it together. Joe can elibrate more on it but it is worth the money hands down.

I've been thinking of doing a CNC router for a year or so. I've seen several plans and looked over the posts here. This is my first build but I figure why play around. So I went with the 4x4 as I feel it will be money well spent in the long run.

The company I work for just happens to have a lot of the 8020 stuff on hand that has been left over from plant projects. I only pay scrap price for it. We have roughly 40 industrial CNC machines in the plant as well. Mostly Matsura, Maazack, Okuma, and a couple Morisekis.

I'm pretty sure I can scrounge some of the other stuff need for my 4x4 from stuff laying around the plant although most of our equipment is far more heavy duty.If not, I can order at plant cost so this will really help.

I'm really looking forward to this project!

Welcome aboard!

Here is Doug's machine 1st cuts 0.25 depth at 200ipm
He is running the Gecko G540, and 270oz motors and i think 24vdc psu.
Someone can jump in if I am wrong.

YouTube - 100_1780.MOV

Joe

was looking on Joe's web site at the kit for the Hybrid, i saw the MDF & HDPE parts but were are the Aluminum extrusions and the steel unistrut?... is there a complete kit without the electric's....

thanks

rigrandy1959@yahoo.com


The kit is the carriages, motor & bearing mounts.
8020 and other parts you will have to source but when you buy the plans that is all on the forum.

Rick

Here is a video of my first 3d with the Hybrid. Couldn't have asked for better results. Will have a new video this next weekend of a jewelry box, ring box, and the start of my father's Christmas present (all separate)

YouTube - 3D German Shepherd

Paul from Canada finished his machine this weekend.

Joe

First I wanted to say to Swaggs21, nice video! Thanks for adding the feed rates and machine information at the end.

Since my shop is not large enough for a 4x4, I am working on some mods to my Joe 2006 machine using v-groove bearings and was curious about the steel angle used for the bearings to ride on. What size and thickness is the angle you guys are using?

I haven't ordered bearings yet. VXB has them a little cheaper that I have found anywhere else but the load ratings they show don't make sense to me. Either they have it listed incorrectly or my conversion is wrong. I called them but the sales rep says they just started handling them and she didn't have any additional specs. Has anyone looked at these?

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/V-Groove-Bearings

Thanks,
Mike

Why is it called hybrid?

The machine is called a hybrid because made from a combination of materials. While the Joe 2006 was mainly wood, this machine uses a combination of 8020, plastic, unistrut, and steel.

Oh, okay.

Hi - Thanks to everyone for posting all of the info and pics.

I am a little confused about how the srews mount into the end bearings. (the ones for rotation, not for linear motion)

Is the fit up close enough for a 1/2 in threaded rod to fit accurately into a 1/2 in bearing ? It seems like there would be something at least a little off center - at least when I would do it I think. :)

Thanks

Harry

Hi Harry, The lead screws are a perfect fit in the bearings. All of the components have been torture tested by many many builders and everything goes together very wellwith adjustments easily made when necessary.

If you're serious about building a machine you should invest in the 4x4 plans early on, they help explain lots that isn't clear just looking at pictures of the machine and the builders forum is a great resource for questions. I bough my plans in May even though I knew I wouldn't be able to start building until this Fall. The time spent reading other build logs was extremely valuable.

First I wanted to say to Swaggs21, nice video! Thanks for adding the feed rates and machine information at the end.

Since my shop is not large enough for a 4x4, I am working on some mods to my Joe 2006 machine using v-groove bearings and was curious about the steel angle used for the bearings to ride on. What size and thickness is the angle you guys are using?

I haven't ordered bearings yet. VXB has them a little cheaper that I have found anywhere else but the load ratings they show don't make sense to me. Either they have it listed incorrectly or my conversion is wrong. I called them but the sales rep says they just started handling them and she didn't have any additional specs. Has anyone looked at these?

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/V-Groove-Bearings

Thanks,
Mike

They are exactly the same as the ones that Superior(?) or IMService sell. I think it's just a typo on their site.

James

I plan to build in Early February, I figure by then I will have read the entire builders forum. I am still trying to figure out which BOM posted is correct, and it looks like there are a few hard to find items that will take a bit of home depot hopping.

Hi Harry, The lead screws are a perfect fit in the bearings. .

Thanks for the reply - I will probably purchase a set of plans, even though I mostly will use them for ideas - not really to build from.

When you say the shaft and bearings are a "perfect fit" - just so I am clear:
- They just "slide in with a little grease ?
- A "shrink fit" - you freeze the shaft (or heat the bearing ) to slide it on - then it "shrinks in place ?
- I am assuming an bronze or similar bushing is not a good alternative for this ?

I did quite a bit of looking at McMaster and various shafts / bearing combinations. There is quite a range of "perfect fit" out there.

I also looked at a variety of bearing qualities ( I have experience with VXB ABEC 7 type - not that impressed actually, but I am still a beginner.

Thanks

Thanks for the reply - I will probably purchase a set of plans, even though I mostly will use them for ideas - not really to build from.

When you say the shaft and bearings are a "perfect fit" - just so I am clear:
- They just "slide in with a little grease ?
- A "shrink fit" - you freeze the shaft (or heat the bearing ) to slide it on - then it "shrinks in place ?
- I am assuming an bronze or similar bushing is not a good alternative for this ?

I did quite a bit of looking at McMaster and various shafts / bearing combinations. There is quite a range of "perfect fit" out there.

I also looked at a variety of bearing qualities ( I have experience with VXB ABEC 7 type - not that impressed actually, but I am still a beginner.

Thanks



The bearings slide on with little to no apparent play between bearing inner race and the lead screw. Some of my bearings needed a bit of polishing before they would slide on with hand pressure.

The bearings are secured to the leadscrews with the two grub screws in each bearing. These screws transfer the axial thrust load from screw to bearing.

Remember that these bearings aren't supporting a significant load or turning at high speed. The simply locate the leadscrew in its proper position while allowing it to rotate freely.

They are exactly the same as the ones that Superior(?) or IMService sell. I think it's just a typo on their site.

James

Thanks James, I hoped they would be the same.

I still need to find out what size and thickness for the steel angle they ride on though. Anybody?

quote

Originally Posted by jspencer View Post

They are exactly the same as the ones that Superior(?) or IMService sell. I think it's just a typo on their site.

James

Thanks James, I hoped they would be the same.

I still need to find out what size and thickness for the steel angle they ride on though. Anybody?

i think that joe would be the one to answer that ...
i realize you are looking to mod the joe's 2006, but i , and others, have paid joe for his plans,well worth it, and how many details he lets out is his perogitive ( -5 sp)
dan

I am a newbee in CNC world. I want to build my own cnc router mainly for wood. I live in Silver Spring Maryland, USA and if possible I can hook up anyone in my area.

thanks,

ELRCJETS

I am a newbee in CNC world. I want to build my own cnc router mainly for wood. I live in Silver Spring Maryland, USA and if possible I can hook up anyone in my area.

thanks,

ELRCJETS

On the Support forum there are actually 4 others in Maryland.



Joe

quote

Originally Posted by jspencer View Post

They are exactly the same as the ones that Superior(?) or IMService sell. I think it's just a typo on their site.

James

Thanks James, I hoped they would be the same.

I still need to find out what size and thickness for the steel angle they ride on though. Anybody?

i think that joe would be the one to answer that ...
i realize you are looking to mod the joe's 2006, but i , and others, have paid joe for his plans,well worth it, and how many details he lets out is his perogitive ( -5 sp)
dan

Sawmiller,
Of course you are right, if Joe doesn't want to give out those details I certainly understand. I didn't think that particular detail would be proprietary information or I would not have asked. Sorry if I overstepped.

Sawmiller,
Of course you are right, if Joe doesn't want to give out those details I certainly understand. I didn't think that particular detail would be proprietary information or I would not have asked. Sorry if I overstepped.

Its not a problem, We use the bearings from superior bearings the #2's and the VBX bearings look the same there were some discrepancies in their description, but i believe those just to be in error and feel they will work just fine.

We also use the eccentric and centric bushings on the X and Z axis, which VBX does not carry so for most its easier to order all from one place and save on the extra shipping, which would bring up the price anyway.

Joe

I am a newbee in CNC world. I want to build my own cnc router mainly for wood. I live in Silver Spring Maryland, USA and if possible I can hook up anyone in my area.

thanks,

ELRCJETS

I'll send you an invite to the CNCZone social group I set up for DC area CNCers. There's also the CAMS CNC group that has monthly meetings in Lorton, VA. CAMS also has every other month general meetings in Burtonsville, MD.

Edit: I can't seem to send an invite. The group page is here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/group.php?groupid=4

Thanks James, I hoped they would be the same.

I still need to find out what size and thickness for the steel angle they ride on though. Anybody?

Sorry i did not see this question before, I get busy sometimes.

We use 3/4"x3/4" 1/8" steel which fits the #2 V-Bearings nicely. I chose the 3/4" to avoid deflection when using the 1/8" thick steel angle.

Joe

I finished My build a week ago.

Some Video I took making a Lithograph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ftm73uDfIo&feature=channel_page


Thanks to Joe for his plans and his forums.

Together a wealth of knowledge.

Some Video cutting a sign.

YouTube - Joe's 4x4 Hybrid Cutting a Sign

Paul...the carving speed (IPM) seems very slow... !!!!!

I've got it set slow, until I'm more comfortable with the machine.

I've jogged at over 350ipm, and that was just too scary.

My 3rd machine (DIY) all steel 4 X4 will jog on 800IPM and i pretend to cut on 400IPM... :) The machine will be completed at the end of this month..

Sorry i did not see this question before, I get busy sometimes.

We use 3/4"x3/4" 1/8" steel which fits the #2 V-Bearings nicely. I chose the 3/4" to avoid deflection when using the 1/8" thick steel angle.

Joe

Thanks Joe, that will help. I have everything else ordered and will get some angle coming now. As it comes together I will try to post something on the 2006 mods thread.

Thanks again,
Mike

A couple of pictures of machines.


Chris Moved his to his to its final resting place as of now :)
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72909&stc=1&d=1231188259



Ghislain has finished his machine
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72910&stc=1&d=1231188332



Paul made a 55"x55" machine and used the plans to mod them and used steel Carriages, and a couple of other mods to adapt the machine to his needs.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72911&stc=1&d=1231188610

Joe

Wow! Those machines are beautiful! They look just like the professional CNCs you see out there for $10,000+. Some really nice color schemes too. I start my tech course in less than a month! I've been setting aside funds and hopefully I'll be able to start a Hybrid build soon enough.

The zone has been awfully quiet lately, but these pictures definitely prove that everyone is still working hard. Keep up the good work guys.

Wow! Those machines are beautiful! They look just like the professional CNCs you see out there for $10,000+. Some really nice color schemes too. I start my tech course in less than a month! I've been setting aside funds and hopefully I'll be able to start a Hybrid build soon enough.

The zone has been awfully quiet lately, but these pictures definitely prove that everyone is still working hard. Keep up the good work guys.


I agree........sweet

I like 'em as well, I would love to see some more picture of finished machines

So the time is coming for me to build a CNC machine and I will start within next 2 to 3 weeks. I already have a Hitachi 2.5HP router (with fixed and plunge bases for manual work) and some other tools. I don't have any heavy machinery. I do, however, know a company around here that works with plastics and can cut out any shapes I ask them to out of any "plastic" out there. As far as metal goes, I'm sure the person I'd order it from would be able to cut proper sizes for me.

With all that being said, how much do you think would it cost me to make Joe's 4x4 (excluding the cost of plans and tools to make it).

Thanks for posting the pic up Joe, I forget about this place sometimes with all the hustle and bustle.

My machine is cutting amazingly well. I am comfortable at cutting between 100-150 ipm with no problems at all. Many times I just leave it slower because I am in no hurry for the part to finish, and I kind of like just sitting and watching it work sometimes.

SBThomas (Spencer I believe?) let us know when you start building your hybrid. I know that you are a student and I have a good deal of leftover parts I am willing to donate to your cause for your firstborn...... ok, for free. Just make sure I see your build thread, there are so many popping up that I miss them a good bit.

I am planning on making the doors for the CNC this weekend in an effort to finalize the solid door design I will be using for the house, will post pics when I am finished.

Swaggs. While your at it if you have some left over bearings how about sending them my way.. lol
Ran out of money so I got to find a side job.

Oh wait. Im not a student..

:-o

Swaggs. While your at it if you have some left over bearings how about sending them my way.. lol
Ran out of money so I got to find a side job.

Oh wait. Im not a student..

:-o

Don't have those, but I do have a lot of skate bearings I never used.

Swaggs. Let me know what you have. I forgot what is needed for the build. I will have to check the plans out and find out just how many are needed. If you are will to part from them I would be glad to pay for them and shipping of course. Let me know. I will try to contact you in the "Secret forum" lol

Swaggs. Let me know what you have. I forgot what is needed for the build. I will have to check the plans out and find out just how many are needed. If you are will to part from them I would be glad to pay for them and shipping of course. Let me know. I will try to contact you in the "Secret forum" lol

I Don't think it is a "Secret Forum", everyone knows its a support forum for those who bought the plans and building the machine. :)

Joe

Some new videos, already posted on support forum

HD (you have to click on the video and click Watch In HD on the bottom right of the video):
YouTube - Purpose Driven Church for Youth Teaching

Non-HD
YouTube - CNC Cutting of a Statue of Nebecanezzar Teaching Aide

Nice Camera Work, Helps people visualize the overall machine.
I like the New Arm You made I helps to keep the Dust Collection Hose in a manageable form.

Joe

Here is a new work piece i did on the 4x4 Hybrid. It was Done in Aspire, and I finished it with Golden Oak stain and a coat of poly.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74085&stc=1&d=1232463088


Joe

Hey Joe that's nice work, was there much sanding, did you model the whole thing your self.
I,m still looking to buy your plans, hope fully next month , I need a way more ridged machine than the one I have. Graham

Hey Joe that's nice work, was there much sanding, did you model the whole thing your self.
I,m still looking to buy your plans, hope fully next month , I need a way more ridged machine than the one I have. Graham

The center was from Vector Art 3D, the rest i did in aspire, the rope i drew in Acad, I Drew one and did an array to copy in a circle 67 additional, then brought the dxf in aspire and generated a component with it.

Joe

John finished His machine and cut his state seal. He made a wood base and with the two arms has full access under the machine.

I am starting a new 4x4 build and am in the process of the stepper motor selection.Particularly the shaft sizes and how they affect the projects i may select.
Tia, Mark

Joe, I must say that you hit it out of the park once again!!! I am very interested in this machine and want to replace my smaller machine. My question is, what's the resolution of this machine? What micro step setting are you using? I have the Hobby CNC 4 axis with 200 oz. motors. If built I would probably start out using these motors and upgrading later to the 400 oz. motors. Could you guess at how the 200's would perform compaired to a set of 400's? We all like a fast machine, but are we giving up desired resolution with the 5 start screws?? I am not picking at you, I just dont understand why. Thanks Joe, James.

Joe, I must say that you hit it out of the park once again!!! I am very interested in this machine and want to replace my smaller machine. My question is, what's the resolution of this machine? What micro step setting are you using? I have the Hobby CNC 4 axis with 200 oz. motors. If built I would probably start out using these motors and upgrading later to the 400 oz. motors. Could you guess at how the 200's would perform compaired to a set of 400's? We all like a fast machine, but are we giving up desired resolution with the 5 start screws?? I am not picking at you, I just dont understand why. Thanks Joe, James.

The resolution is still good, there is one person using the 200oz motors on his and he said it works fine, but i would upgrade later on.

The weight of the gantry is 93lbs.

I use G201's so my micro stepping is 10.

I am streatching the limits of the span of a 1/2" acme screw, and going to a 5 start eliminates whipping you would normally get with a single start.
the resolution I have is with 4,000 steps per (200x2x10)=4,000 so 1/4,000 = 0.00025" resolution, Hope my math was good.

Joe

Joe,

I found this acme rod at Mcmaster Carr.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#99030a400/=ee3vt

Am I reading this correct 1/2 - 8, 8 Start. Thats 1 inch per turn. So if your calculation is correct going to a 1 inch per turn the resolution should be .0005. Is this acceptable? This should double the speed? Not sure where to get antibacklash nuts for an 8 start.

Dave

Joe,

I found this acme rod at Mcmaster Carr.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#99030a400/=ee3vt

Am I reading this correct 1/2 - 8, 8 Start. Thats 1 inch per turn. So if your calculation is correct going to a 1 inch per turn the resolution should be .0005. Is this acceptable? This should double the speed? Not sure where to get antibacklash nuts for an 8 start.

Dave

Thats is great, I will get one and put it on my X-Axis and see how it works.

Joe

I can't find anywhere in that link that show how many starts.

Start Type
Fast Travel Multiple Start

that's All it shows.

Edit it's on the left hand side, it is showing as an 8 start

With that kind of lead you will loose your mechanical advantage. Take a look at my write up here: http://pminmo.com/PMinMOwiki/index.php5?title=Mechanical_Power

It's more than just mechanical advantage though, it's also efficiency and motor power at specific speeds. I wouldn't advise going below 1/2" travel per revolution, and in most situations you will get your peak power/cost of the system components in the .2 to .25 in per revolution two start screws.

Made some Cam Adjusters out of 1/2" aluminum on the machine, they are the same size as a 5/16" nut, very small, worked out well.

I just sent Joe the money for the hybrid plan... I am really looking forward to building this machine.

Here is a short video of a Hybird cutting 3/8" aluminum plate.

YouTube - Cutting 3/8" Aluminum with a Joe's 4x4 Hybrid

Paul

Neat video. Thanks for sharing. Its good to see folks cutting more then just wood.

I tested the New Leadscrew, 1/2" 8 tpi - 8 start as posted previously, and very pleased with the results.

Got the New Leadscrew installed on the X-Axis, I need to tweak it some, i have a little bow in the leadscrew, but without any real alighnment i get 360ipm, im sure i can get close to the 500ipm mark with no problem with a few mods.

Tim, with DumpsterCNC.com did a great job on the Antibacklash Nuts, Motor/leadscrew Coupler and the threaded Clamps.

YouTube - joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid (leadscrew test)

I also mapped the new leadscrew in Mach3 Screw Mapping, and have the steps per set at 2000 in the motor tunning.

The screw was original coming out 1/16" to long over a 46" travel.

I tested the New Leadscrew, 1/2" 8 tpi - 8 start as posted previously, and very pleased with the results.

Got the New Leadscrew installed on the X-Axis, I need to tweak it some, i have a little bow in the leadscrew, but without any real alighnment i get 360ipm, im sure i can get close to the 500ipm mark with no problem with a few mods.

Tim, with DumpsterCNC.com did a great job on the Antibacklash Nuts, Motor/leadscrew Coupler and the threaded Clamps.

YouTube - joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid (leadscrew test) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiRp5i-095Y&feature=channel_page)

Thanks for testing this out Joe. It looks very smooth running at 360ipm.

Dave

Nice job Joe. Is your axis really efficient? Are you going to do the same to the gantry axis?

Nice job Joe. Is your axis really efficient? Are you going to do the same to the gantry axis?

I already ordered the other two leadscrew to convert it over.

Have you looked at the impact on your cutting speed?

Have you looked at the impact on your cutting speed?

Not yet i just installed it last night, but will cut some tonight but will have to slow it down to match the Y-Axis.

Not sure what you mean by "will have to slow it down to match the Y-Axis". As long as your steps per inch are correct in your setup, the cut feed rates will be determined by the gcode.

Not sure what you mean by "will have to slow it down to match the Y-Axis". As long as your steps per inch are correct in your setup, the cut feed rates will be determined by the gcode.

I would rather have my rapids match.

Ok, so I am sure I will catch heck for this, but where do I find a link to buy these plans?
can somebody please direct me, I've looked but came up with nothing.

Thanks!

You asked for it, so here you go!

http://joescnc.com/kitsplans.php


See you in the forums.


Paul

Thanks... that was F A S T!

You asked for it, so here you go!

http://joescnc.com/kitsplans.php


See you in the forums.


Paul

will cut some tonight but will have to slow it down to match the Y-Axis.

Results to report?

Results to report?

Not yet, I was a little under the weather, and starting back on it this evening.

Really smooth and fast Joe.

Jason

That's some great project! Very inspiring and well made :)

Here is a video of the machine running 360ipm. you can see the left leadscrew I need to return to McMasterCarr because it was bent.

YouTube - New Leadscrews Rapids at 360ipm

the machine running 360ipm.

At that new speed a plasma conversion should cut very thin material quite nicely! :)

Joe,

I'm in, will be sending money for the plans this week!!! You are the man!

Mick

Hi Joe. I can source 40 X 80 T-Slot locally. Is 72" long effective enought to get full capacity? Are the plans scaleable for the 40 x 80 mm stock?

Hi Joe. I can source 40 X 80 T-Slot locally. Is 72" long effective enought to get full capacity? Are the plans scaleable for the 40 x 80 mm stock?

We use 50x100, the holes for the V-Bearings would need to be adjusted by 0.40", or use larger Steel angle rails to make up the difference in distance Also if you used the 40x80 you could be introducing some flexing in the X-Axis (gantry). I would avoid it if you can.

Hey Joe
When will Dumpster CNC Have anti-backlash nuts for the 8 start leadscrews.
Thank You
Clay

Hi Joe,

Have you had a chance to cut anything with the new leadscrews? If so, what are your thoughts. Were you able to cut any faster?

Dave

Seems another round of machines are being finished now.

Here is Bill's.

Very Beautiful machine Joe:) and the movie is great too..

Joe or Bill,

Would you mind sharing some of the improvements people have made on your machine. I notice an outlet near the router so it can be plugged in easily but, maybe you could share with us the stuff we don't see!

Nice job Bill!

I do want to know the whole outlet thing since you've mentioned. How can I attach one of those to '06 machine... hmm (not savvy when it comes to that kind of stuff).

bkboggy

I did one of those conversions to add an outlet. it is quite simple. Mount a handybox (metal outlet box avaliable at HD for about $1) just above the router on the sliding plate. pull a piece of SO cord (heavy rubber extension cord 14ga.) from an 115 power source and run it along the y axis wire track, install an outlet and you are done. to make it really fancy you can add a 115 volt relay in the powersuppy box and control it with Mach3. If you are interested I could draw something up...

Bob

Doug finished his machine a little while back but has been busy with it and other things, so he went ahead and snapped a quick photo of his machine.

Hi guys,
I see you are using very long lead screws for the Y and X axis. Could you tell me what's the inner diameter of the lead screw (in millimeters) without the threaded channels, please? I'm going to build a large CNC (designed by me, not beautiful like the ones here) with similar size later this month, and I need some advice for the minimum diameter for the lead screw. I think about 20 mm inner diameter, and 24-26 mm outer diameter with the thread included.

Thanks,

Bobi

PS: Sorry if my question is off-topic.

Bob, sounds simple except the whole relay thing and controlling from Mach3 for the fancier version. I would definitely like a drawing for that if you don't mind.

Has anyone expanded this design to a 4x8 foot cutting area? Is it possible without too much change to the design?

Thanks,

Eric

Guys,

Just purchased Joe's plans and for those of you on the fence, go for it. They are very well written making it easy for anyone to understand. A lot of thought went into them and it shows.

Thanks Joe!!

Mick

His 4x4 is definitely going to be my next machine in a few years, heh

Has anyone expanded this design to a 4x8 foot cutting area? Is it possible without too much change to the design?

Thanks,

Eric

Yes, there is already Mods in the works to make one axis a belt drive or rack and pinion drive.

Joe

I am building a 4X8 rack and pinion. It will be done in the next couple of weeks or whenever Joe's kit shows up!!! :stickpoke

His 4x4 is definitely going to be my next machine in a few years, heh

In a few years he might have a bigger and better machine. :D

bkboggy
Sorry been out a couple of days...I will draw something and put it up..

Bob

I have been following this design for some time and building one is definitely in my future. I would want to have a 4 x 8 cutting surface though and some of these previous threads hint that one is in the works. That's good news.

Maybe this has been discussed before, but I was thinking that instead of getting rid of the leadscrews on the long axis I would keep them and make them non rotational and spin the leadnut instead. Is this practical or has anyone ever tried it? It would get rid of lead screw whip on long rods.

Craig

I have been following this design for some time and building one is definitely in my future. I would want to have a 4 x 8 cutting surface though and some of these previous threads hint that one is in the works. That's good news.

Maybe this has been discussed before, but I was thinking that instead of getting rid of the leadscrews on the long axis I would keep them and make them non rotational and spin the leadnut instead. Is this practical or has anyone ever tried it? It would get rid of lead screw whip on long rods.

Craig

Has been discussed several time, but now with the new 8 start One turn per inch leadscrews it is not needed, and only one leadscrew will be replaced with a belt drive or rack and pinion.

Bob finished his build for not, and add more bells and whistles maybe later on.

bkboggy
Sorry been out a couple of days...I will draw something and put it up..

Bob

No problem. :) That's a good looking machine! I would have gone with a 4x4 if I had more money, heh

Here's one completed, all parts cut by hand using templates.

Wow, by hand? Nice looking machine. What is that yellow hose/cable for?

Its used instead of a cable carrier, a conduit which is a cheaper but still functional alternative.

HMMMMMMMMM, that is an excellent idea!

ooops

ooops

Not sure about that comment

Joe,

I read somewhere that some of the guys on your new machine are having trouble with the abl nuts. I was told there seems to be a backlash issue with them. Any new news on this problem? Is the machine binding up or is it something else? Possible buyer here wants to know. :confused:

That I'm aware of there has only been one instance of it and that member is in the works resolving it with dumpstercnc now. There was some play in the ABL nut and he was trying to narrow down if it was the leadscrew or the ABL, but Tim as usual is providing great support for his products. It's an isolated incident really, don't let it put a crimp or doubts on purchasing the plans or a kit...

Joe,

I read somewhere that some of the guys on your new machine are having trouble with the abl nuts. I was told there seems to be a backlash issue with them. Any new news on this problem? Is the machine binding up or is it something else? Possible buyer here wants to know. :confused:

The abl nuts and also the leadscrew was sent to Tim (dumpster.cnc) to investigate, there is nothing really wrong wih the ABL nuts, it was the cheaper acme rod, the ABL would be fine in spots on the acme rod but backlash in other spots, Tim recommends using the Rod he suggests on his website the 4140 with black oxide coating, instead of the 1018 carbon steel screws.

The abl nuts and also the leadscrew was sent to Tim (dumpster.cnc) to investigate, there is nothing really wrong wih the ABL nuts, it was the cheaper acme rod, the ABL would be fine in spots on the acme rod but backlash in other spots, Tim recommends using the Rod he suggests on his website the 4140 with black oxide coating, instead of the 1018 carbon steel screws.

Something doesn't sound right here. Abl nuts should eliminate any backlash on new or used leadscrews. I found this quote on a reputable anti backlash nut web site.

( Nuts eliminate clearance between nut threads and leadscrew threads. Design compensates for wear while eliminating issues common when traversing from worn areas to unworn areas of screw. )

So what heck difference does rod material have to do with an ABL nut preforming properly? Even used rods work well with abl nuts.

Hmmm
It will be interesting to here what dumpster cnc has to say about this problem. Right now it sounds like I'm getting the run around.

Just to let you know, my nuts are fine!

Right now it sounds like I'm getting the run around.

You just joined the site today, and yours is the first post I've ever seen of someone questioning the Dumpster nuts. I use them myself, and if you read through the hundreds of threads here, you'll see that just about every home built machine uses them, unless the builder makes there own AB nuts.

I don'r know the specifics of the rod in question, but perhaps it was a manufacturing defect in the screw? There are probably hundreds of Joes machines in use, and probably 99% of them use the Dumpster nuts. Again, this is the first I've ever heard of a problem.

Ran55

I dont think Joe or Dumpster CNC would give you the runaround. Why would they you havent purchased anything. As for the finish on the screw... it doesnt matter if it is oxide or not except for wear or rust resistance. I agree with Ger21 it was probably either the screw or nut manufacture defect. And as per your post, it seems Dumpster is evaluating not only the nut but also the screw (not his product I might add) As a general rule the AB nuts are fool proof and thousands of them are sold annually for the purpose specified.

Bob

As i mentioned before it was the lower quality Acme screw not the ABL Nut.

You mean just not the different finish, but the cheaper grade, right?

You mean just not the different finish, but the cheaper grade, right?

Correct

Ran55

I dont think Joe or Dumpster CNC would give you the runaround. Why would they you havent purchased anything. As for the finish on the screw... it doesnt matter if it is oxide or not except for wear or rust resistance. I agree with Ger21 it was probably either the screw or nut manufacture defect. And as per your post, it seems Dumpster is evaluating not only the nut but also the screw (not his product I might add) As a general rule the AB nuts are fool proof and thousands of them are sold annually for the purpose specified.

Bob

It was a BAD choice of words on my part about the run around. I felt that some of the truth was left out. Anyway thanks blackbeard, I believe you understood what I was getting at. I have bought parts from Tim and believe he makes a good product. I'm not pointing fingers at Tim at all. And besides that Tim is one heck of a nice person. I just don't think that pointing fingers at the lead-screw is right either. However people and or companies do run into problem at times of manufacturing parts that are outside of their control at times. At times like this it is better to hear the truth rather than trying to make up something that sounds fishy. Thats all I'm really getting at.
A friend of mine that is building Joe's 4x4 which has been trying to get me to build one has been keeping me updated on his build. So I'm aware of problems more than others here are of the 4x4.

As i mentioned before it was the lower quality Acme screw not the ABL Nut.

But my upstanding is you yourself is running this quality of leadscrew to keep the cost down. You don't seem to be having any problems with this lower grade yourself. McMaster carr only carries so many lead-screws Joe I can understand getting bent ones from time to time and that in it self is a pain in the butt. Just a LITTLE honesty goes a long way.

Just a LITTLE honesty goes a long way.

Maybe its just choice of words again.

Maybe its just choice of words again.

WOW, Been lurking here for about 3 yrs. and now I might be understanding why it took me so long to join.

Thank you BOB for that understanding!

Hey Joe,

I'm looking into building one of your machines but torn between which one to start.

My question is, about how much on average would each kit cost to build using your pre-cut packages.

As someone who is building the 4X4 right now, with the kit supplied by joe, The only problem I have had is a MDF one on one of the Y axis carriages. I believe it is a MDF manufacturing error as one of the V bearings did not line up with the angle iron rail when all the others were on the rails. I had to use a couple of lock washers and a flat washer instead of a nut spacer. Other than that, I had to gently tap all the carriages together with a rubber hammer when I glued them because the tolerances were so tight.

The only error in the machine is the error I introduced. IE, drilling and tapping holes in the HDPE and drilling the rails.

The ONLY thing I could see Joe improving on the kit he supplies is if he used a smaller end mill and actually drilled out the holes on the HDPE parts.

Other than that the build has been one of the easiest things I have build. It was harder to put together and IKEA entertainment center than to build the 4X4.

Anyhow, as for cost:

My 4X4 ran about $2000 for materials. I did acquire materials over 2-3 months so I did hit quite a few deals, so I would figure one could get it done for $2300 if they purchased it all in one shot!

But my upstanding is you yourself is running this quality of leadscrew to keep the cost down. You don't seem to be having any problems with this lower grade yourself. McMaster carr only carries so many lead-screws Joe I can understand getting bent ones from time to time and that in it self is a pain in the butt. Just a LITTLE honesty goes a long way.

Well we have over 100 people who have bought the leadscrews and yes they do vary in dimension, because some people have to bore out bearings or spin the lead screws and sand them down while others have no problem fitting them into the bearings, the bearings have been mic'd and seem to be consistent dimensional wise.

This being said, the sample sent to Dumpster confirmed the inconsistency in the lower grade leadscrew, in that sample it differed along a 36" piece. so from time to time some people receive a leadscrew that was made and not consistent down its length.

Also the people having the backlash it is only in spots in the leadscrews it appears and not down its full length, which again points to the lower grade leadscrews, You have to keep in mind these screws are not made the same way a Rotan Leadscrew is made or other high grade leadscrews, They are just Acme threaded rods. This is one reason Tim (DumpsterCNC) suggest using the higher grade screws. I leave it up to the builder and his budget and what they actually plan to make with the machine, If just signs and art work, then the lower grade screws may be just fine for them.

Heres a partial screen capture of the Support forum which shows the machine already built and ones under construction now which some are close to finishing.

Well we have over 100 people who have bought the leadscrews and yes they do vary in dimension, because some people have to bore out bearings or spin the lead screws and sand them down while others have no problem fitting them into the bearings, the bearings have been mic'd and seem to be consistent dimensional wise.

This being said, the sample sent to Dumpster confirmed the inconsistency in the lower grade leadscrew, in that sample it differed along a 36" piece. so from time to time some people receive a leadscrew that was made and not consistent down its length.

Also the people having the backlash it is only in spots in the leadscrews it appears and not down its full length, which again points to the lower grade leadscrews, You have to keep in mind these screws are not made the same way a Rotan Leadscrew is made or other high grade leadscrews, They are just Acme threaded rods. This is one reason Tim (DumpsterCNC) suggest using the higher grade screws. I leave it up to the builder and his budget and what they actually plan to make with the machine, If just signs and art work, then the lower grade screws may be just fine for them.

Thank You Joe, I like what you wrote here. I'm impressed with the way you handled my aggression here. That alone tells me alot about you in a positive way. :cheers:

I have a few machines myself and have not run into this situation of backlash problem. It is had for me to really understand. I have bought a few abl nuts from Tim from time to time and he has always treaded me respectfully. I too, respect him for the things he has accomplished. I would love to have his homemade cnc lathe :) Not sure what I'd do with it but I'm sure I could come up with something.

I'm looking forward to your posting on more of what Tim discovered on his inspection and conclusion of this problem.

Again thank you very much for being more up front on this backlash problem.

RAN55

I have been reading the thread for a few months now. I have been impressed by the wealth of knowledge, ingenuity and the passion many have put forth to CNC. I am in the midst of a SOLSYLVA build myself (24 X 48 table) and it appears to be coming along fine.

That being said....... Hi to everyone

I too, have the displeasure of leadscrew issues. My 1-1/8 x 1/2 inch bearings almost fit. I have the 2 start 10 threads per inch lead screws. The problem is the bearings will not fit. I wrote to David and he suggested filing the ends down (slightly). Now I can fit the bearings over the area I filed but the bearing gets stuck past the filed area.

I have considered boring out the bearings but couldn't imagine how it is accomplished. Does anyone have a good suggestions for making the bearings fit? I actually considered heating up the bearings but don't feel that comfortable doing this. I could also cool down the leadscrews but don't have a freezer that would hold the 6 ft lead screws.

My apologies if anyone thinks I am hyjacking the thread. But since everyone was on the topic......... I figure it was a good way to introduce myself.

TSwindler aka FATMAN

I am doing the first rack and pinion Joes 4X4 and I had a precision shaft that was .501 and the bearings were .499


Anyhow, I took them to the machine shop and had them turn out the bearings to fit the shaft. Cost $40 for two bearings, but it saved me a lot of hassle and headaches.

hey fatman,
take a dremel and the clyindrical sandpaper to the inside of those bearings, a light sand there is all it takes
(4x4 owner/builder )
dan

Stoneyreef/ Sawmiller,

Thanks, The suggetions are great. I will try the Dremel first as I happen to own one and it would be cheaper. I will try the machinist if that doesn't pan out for me.

If I am not being a problem here, does anybody use Aspire or Aspire2? I am definetely a newbie and don't mind purchasing it (although I will have to use creative financing). I have read and re-read this forum and have learned that everyone seems to have gotten used to particular software and they tend to swear by it as indicated by the various poles that exist. Is there a better choice at or below this 2k pricetag?

Any help is appreciated.

FATMAN.

If I am not being a problem here, does anybody use Aspire or Aspire2?...................... Is there a better choice at or below this 2k pricetag?


Is there a better choice? There isn't really any competition for Aspire in it's price range. It has tools that cheaper programs do not. The real question is, Do you need all the tools it offers? Always download demos and learn the programs so YOU can make the decision on what you need. Don't let someone else tell you what to buy, or what you need.

Stoneyreef/ Sawmiller,

Thanks, The suggetions are great. I will try the Dremel first as I happen to own one and it would be cheaper. I will try the machinist if that doesn't pan out for me.

If I am not being a problem here, does anybody use Aspire or Aspire2? I am definetely a newbie and don't mind purchasing it (although I will have to use creative financing). I have read and re-read this forum and have learned that everyone seems to have gotten used to particular software and they tend to swear by it as indicated by the various poles that exist. Is there a better choice at or below this 2k pricetag?

Any help is appreciated.

FATMAN.

I tried the dremel trick, and I used the sand paper tube, it ate them for breakfast, so I switched to the sanding stone, it wore that down too, so I just bit the bullet and pulled out the wallet.

Looks like Aspire it is.... Since I already went out and purchased the new Dremel grinding stone and sand paper drums I will begin their. Then, (if unsuccessful) on to the machine shop (with tail between legs). I appreciate the both of you answering so quickly. I am looking forward to completing this project this month (hopefully). It has been an investment and an adventure. I have to tend to agree with Carve One's motto........ "If this thing works, I'll be truly impressed."


FATMAN

i see in the sample drawing of the table that 1/4"-20 and 1/2"-13 uni-strut nuts are being used. I have a healthy supply of 3/8"-16 nuts. Could I use the 3/8-16 instead of the 1/2-13 ??

Well, I finally pulled the Dremel out of the case and attempted to grind the bearings. I used a barrell type sandpaper. It worked great. I really didn't have that much to grind though.

I can see both points. If you are within a thousandths of an inch you could get away with using a Dremel. Otherwise one might be wise to use a machine shop.

I fitted four bearings on one leadscrew and tried to fit un-ground bearings on the other lead screw. The second lead screw did not need to have the bearings adjusted - they slide on like they were made for the leadscrew. Anyway, on with the project... (Solsylva 24 x 48)

FATMAN

i see in the sample drawing of the table that 1/4"-20 and 1/2"-13 uni-strut nuts are being used. I have a healthy supply of 3/8"-16 nuts. Could I use the 3/8-16 instead of the 1/2-13 ??

If you use brackets to match.

Here is a video of my latest work, using my Joe's 4x4 Hybrid

YouTube - Cutting a Router Mount

Enjoy

Paul

Hay Joe Are you really using HobieCNC pro on this? Also what size steppers? I am thinking of building one but want to get started now on figuring out the electronics and software.


Or would something like this be better for your 4x4 hybird?

From keling

G540 4 axis package (One G540 + Four
KL23H284-35-4B (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 387 oz-in + one KL-600-
48 48V/12.5A 115V /230Vpower supply):

Many built the joe 2006 with the HCNC kit. When the 4x4 hybrid came along, a lot of the 2006 builders built it and moved the motors over from the 06. I think Joe did as well. If you have no motor package already, the Keling package you list is just about ideal. I think some of the builders mentioned have since replaced the HCNC driver board with a G540.

Great I may just pull the plug on that than, I get these ideas and they just kill me till I just do them. The CNC will be a great tool for the wood shop.

Thanks for the feed back BobF

Hey Paul that was nice vid, are you running those smooth steppers?What are the speeds you are cutting the alum with. thanks mate for the vid.

Graham

Thanks grahamshere,

I am NOT using smooth steppers. I drive the CNC with Gecko 203v, a PDMX 122 & a 52V DC power supply.

I used a two flute spiral 1/8" end mill. 50ipm .01" per pass Z was set to 10ipm.
Total cut time was 2hrs.

Looks good Paul. I haven't tried cutting much aluminum yet, but your video is inspiring.

Looks good Paul. I haven't tried cutting much aluminum yet, but your video is inspiring.


Thanks BobF,

You really should try cutting Al, it can open a whole new variety of fun projects with a CNC router.


Paul

Thanks for the reply Paul, what is a PDMX 122, the machine run's really smooth that's why I thought they were smooth steppers. what size motors are you running with the gecko?

Graham

Thanks for the reply Paul, what is a PDMX 122, the machine run's really smooth that's why I thought they were smooth steppers. what size motors are you running with the gecko?

Graham



The PDMX is the "BOB" break out board that runs the Gecko's

http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-122/

I'm using 425oz in motors from keiling inc

Paul

Ops you beat me

I've always had kind of an edge here on motors. I used to work for a company that used steppers in it's fluid metering instrumentation (stuff for chemical and pharmaceutical research labs). When they obsoleted one of their instruments I asked the guy who was in charge of trashing then if I could get my hands on the steppers. So I walked out with 6 or 7 Pacific Sciences Powerpac 665 in-oz, N series beauties.

http://www.pacsci.com/products/step_motors/powerpacproducts.html

Can't complain about the price either since they were free (felt it was my duty to save them from the trashman).

BOB is CNC4PC C-10 running 4 Gecko G202's

Started off life as a 2006 and everything is being migrated into a 4x4 (modified to 3X7)

Ok, alot of people have been asking about the machine, So after alot of thinking, designing, building, redesigning, rebuilding (three times) this is what i have thus far, it uses the my Carriage design on the X-Axis as well as the Y-Axis, the machine is accessed from the front. The X-Axis will actually be across the machine and the Y-Axis is front to back (Two motors). Using the STMD Drivers and the Keling 425oz motors, because of the length of the lead screws I travel at 120ipm. which is pleanty for me for a home built machine, (as it is I cut at 80 to 100 with rapids of 200ipm on my present machine). Using the 1/2"-8 two start acme, Dumpster Anti-backlash, and so on, the setup is very smooth, I will try to use a PC 7518 eventually on it but for now will prob. use the Hitachi.

Ok, what I am asking from you guys is to help design the Z-Axis as you can see in the picture the Z-Axis slide will be a bolt on to the front, 4-5/16" bolts. the width has to be 6" total for the bolt on plate and the over all width can not exceed 7.5" (to alow for the 48" travel) the bottom of the Axis carriage is 5.5" from table top and have to count for the auto tool changer. I have 4 V-Bearings which will be used for the Z-Axis slide. I have a few idea's but would like a little input and additional thoughts.

So if you can please submit DWG files and we can discuss them and maybe you will be the one to design my Z-Axis.

Thanks, Joe

Great looking job. Looks like real good craftsmanship. I like the aluminum rails you have there, I have seen them before but don't know where to buy. Would you share your source for the rails?

Thanks, millwizard

millwizard.
the rails are 80/20.
They have a website and an e-bay surplus store.
www.8020.net

Thanks, I will check it out.

Millwizard

Lead Screw question.

I have the Dumpster 1/2-10 5 start nuts and McMaster Acme 5 start lead screw (black oxide finish). I'm having one really hard time getting the lead screw to turn in the nut. However the 2 start stuff (plain finish) turns fine in the z-axis. Did I make a mistake in selecting the black oxide finish? Anyone else ever have this type of a problem?

Lead Screw question.

I have the Dumpster 1/2-10 5 start nuts and McMaster Acme 5 start lead screw (black oxide finish). I'm having one really hard time getting the lead screw to turn in the nut. However the 2 start stuff (plain finish) turns fine in the z-axis. Did I make a mistake in selecting the black oxide finish? Anyone else ever have this type of a problem?

Some have made a tap to open up the end at the flange, only a little bit it needed and not all the way through, I would send an email to Tim.

Here is Bill's machine finishing it and doing a break in.

Using the HobbyCNC Pro Board.

YouTube - CNC 2

Hi Joe,

Tim got back to me and suggested exactly that. It worked perfectly.

Thanks

Hey gentlemen!

As I'm sure you can see from my post count, I'm a lurker and have been so for a very long time. Two years ago, around this time, I was longing for a CNC machine, but didn't know squat about them. That all changed in September of last year when I bought a PhlatPrinter CNC from www.PhlatBoyZ.com. After building this little machine (purposed for cutting foam for RC aircraft), I learned so much about CNC and am now, no longer, feeling "overwhelmed" with the idea of building the 4x4 Hybrid.

I use Google SketchUp to work up all of my designs, and then create the gCode using the PhlatScript plugin (free) which is then imported into Mach3. I'm limited to non-3D stuff right now with this workflow, but there's no reason why I cannot use this process with this machine. Of course I understand that I may need something a little less limiting in the future for the 4x4, but I feel that I'm off to a good start with what I have until I can learn something new.

I told myself after learning what I have learned, that if I was ever able to swing enough dough I would build one of these beauties.

I am happy to report that I sold one of my motorcycles today and, after paying a few bills, I have about $3000 to put towards this project!!!

Now if you guys will indulge me, I would like to get some info:

1. Do I have enough cash to get one of these machines built? I plan to buy the $100 plans package as well as the parts kit from Joe, meaning I will have $2500 remaining in my budget.
2. When I get the BOM, will I be shopping at a bazillion different places to get all of the necessary parts, or will I be hitting up 6 -8 suppliers?
3. I have some basic power tools as well as a table saw (never been used yet) and a small drill press. Are there any specialized tools I will need access to?
4. Upon collection of all of the mats on the BOM, how long should it take an "average" builder to complete the project to the point of tuning?

My PhlatPrinter has totally spoiled me in that from "start" to the point of motor tuning, it took about 6 hours of labor with nothing more than basic hand tools. I realize that this will take significantly more time, but I'm just wondering exactly what I'm getting into. LOL

After cutting tons of airplanes, my desires have increased to the point where I want to be able to work wood (flight boxes, transmitter cases, etc.). I see no other machine out there better than Joe's 4x4 Hybrid, and it's the one I just have to have!

Thanks in advance for your input!

you should have enough for one, mine took about $1300, with a wooden base table and such. i've seen qoutes as high as $3500. it all depends on what you build with, especially the electronics. the gecko 540 and some hobbycnc 425's are a good middle of the pack solution, the hobbycnc is slightly cheaper, and there are turnkey electronic packages that will be $1500 or more.
the joe's forum has a lot of information, what did and didn't work, who to buy from and part numers, all that kind o stuff.
dan

The tools I found indespensible for the build were, a drill press, small chop saw, and dremel tool with cut off wheels and sanding drums.

With a wooden base my hardware came in right at around $2000.

I would say, use a weekend to build the base, a weekend to glue and finish the MDF carriages and do your drilling.

The next weekend assemble. So figure a month of good solid weekends.

Hey gentlemen!

As I'm sure you can see from my post count, I'm a lurker and have been so for a very long time. Two years ago, around this time, I was longing for a CNC machine, but didn't know squat about them. That all changed in September of last year when I bought a PhlatPrinter CNC from www.PhlatBoyZ.com. After building this little machine (purposed for cutting foam for RC aircraft), I learned so much about CNC and am now, no longer, feeling "overwhelmed" with the idea of building the 4x4 Hybrid.

I use Google SketchUp to work up all of my designs, and then create the gCode using the PhlatScript plugin (free) which is then imported into Mach3. I'm limited to non-3D stuff right now with this workflow, but there's no reason why I cannot use this process with this machine. Of course I understand that I may need something a little less limiting in the future for the 4x4, but I feel that I'm off to a good start with what I have until I can learn something new.

I told myself after learning what I have learned, that if I was ever able to swing enough dough I would build one of these beauties.

I am happy to report that I sold one of my motorcycles today and, after paying a few bills, I have about $3000 to put towards this project!!!

Now if you guys will indulge me, I would like to get some info:

1. Do I have enough cash to get one of these machines built? I plan to buy the $100 plans package as well as the parts kit from Joe, meaning I will have $2500 remaining in my budget.
2. When I get the BOM, will I be shopping at a bazillion different places to get all of the necessary parts, or will I be hitting up 6 -8 suppliers?
3. I have some basic power tools as well as a table saw (never been used yet) and a small drill press. Are there any specialized tools I will need access to?
4. Upon collection of all of the mats on the BOM, how long should it take an "average" builder to complete the project to the point of tuning?

My PhlatPrinter has totally spoiled me in that from "start" to the point of motor tuning, it took about 6 hours of labor with nothing more than basic hand tools. I realize that this will take significantly more time, but I'm just wondering exactly what I'm getting into. LOL

After cutting tons of airplanes, my desires have increased to the point where I want to be able to work wood (flight boxes, transmitter cases, etc.). I see no other machine out there better than Joe's 4x4 Hybrid, and it's the one I just have to have!

Thanks in advance for your input!

I saw the Phatboyz website a few months back and thought it was so cool, I think i even reg. on the forum. and looked at the logs, at that time not to many, but still sparks interest just to see it (as so do so many other cnc machines). the advantage of that machine is the ability to hold such thin material without a vacuume table, I guess you could make a floating head of rolling bearings 4 which can be placed around the router on a regular machine which would prevent the material from kicking up.

With your budget you should have enough to build the machine. and like you say you have an advantage now with some experience.

Saw, Stoney, and Joe:

Thanks for your feedback! I am so stoked about this machine.

The PhlatPrinter started it all for me. The machine was built for less than $700 and can cut foam materials from .125" to 1.5" at 45 ipm on all three axis. In fact, the new "MKII" machine will be released in the couple of weeks, and I've already purchased mine! I have personally seen the prototype for that machine running all three axis at 250 ipm with rapids over 600 ipm! My pre-order price on the new machine was only $1k and it comes with the RotoZip and Flexshaft (spindle)! I just have to supply the motion electronics package which should set me back about $250. Not a bad deal for a machine capable of "commercial" speeds! LOL

This whole CNC thing started out as a tool to support for RC hobby. Well...now it's a hobby all to it's own that's seriously competing for my time with RC!!

BTW, if you care to hear some audio about my adventures with the PhlatPrinter, you can catch my RC-related podcast each week where I talk "PhlatPrinter CNC" at least once monthly. www.TheCrashCast.com

Was that a shameless plug, or what? :)

Joe,

Are you still selling the kits for the Model2006? If so what is in the kit. Is it the MDF and HDPE parts only? Does it include the aluminum angle (drilled and tapped)? I have to assume it doesn't come with the pipe since you can get that just about anyplace.

How about all the hardware, bearings and what not?

Matthew

Crash-Man! Hey I see you've found your way over here too....(thewz from phlatforums).

I'm building a JGRO now but I'm seriously looking at Joe's 2006. The Hybrid looks great but my budget will be busted from teh extruded aluminum needed....

Joes kits are the mdf and plastic parts only unless he has changed. You can get the aluminum angle at most of the box stores (depot and Lowes at least) and drilling is all that is needed, you don't have to tap the aluminum. You will need 5/16 bolts threaded all the way.

Joes kits are the mdf and plastic parts only unless he has changed. You can get the aluminum angle at most of the box stores (depot and Lowes at least) and drilling is all that is needed, you don't have to tap the aluminum. You will need 5/16 bolts threaded all the way.

Thanks!

Is there information on the mod for the 4x8 rack and pinon drive in your forum if I buy the plans for your 4x4?

Thanks for all you do.

Eric

yes, in my build thread. A couple pieces of rack, pinion gear, two timing gears, a timing belt, low head bolts, a dado cut in the z axis plate, gear box made on your drill press etc etc.

yes, in my build thread. A couple pieces of rack, pinion gear, two timing gears, a timing belt, low head bolts, a dado cut in the z axis plate, gear box made on your drill press etc etc.

I can not find your build thread. Care to post a link?

The build log in on my support forum.

Here is a quick picture of the overall machine.

4x8

stoneyreef, that is a big machine. It is how I would go about building a 4x8 machine. are you getting any sag in that long x-axis beam?

If you just span the table with just the 80/20 extrusion then there is some sag. However, once the angle iron is installed on the top and bottom for the linear rails, the rack is bolted to the back and reinforcement on the front side, there is no longer any sag. Think of it as reinforced 80/20.

Here's another Bill has almost finished his machine, he is just wrapping up the bed. His machine is a nice a clean build.

She moves! Did the ritual cutting of air today. Everything went very well (took almost 2 days to align the dual y-axis screws, but it was time well spent). Solid as a rock. Film at 11 (or whenever I get my buddy with the camera over here).

Heres another 4x8 machine being built by Chris.

YouTube - S4020866

YouTube - S4020872

Wow fast machine, whats he using for drivers,motors and screws? Hey Jo so how many Hybred's have been built now? Graham

Wow fast machine, whats he using for drivers,motors and screws? Hey Jo so how many Hybred's have been built now? Graham

He is using the HobbyCNC pro kit i believe, the X-Axis is rack and pinion.

We have 37 complete running machines and 78 machines under construction.

Burney and I finally finished the rotary axis for Joe's 4X4 Hybrid. I've included lots of pictures that I hope make it clear how it was built. The rotary axis is hung between the first and second unistrut so that it is parallel with the X axis. The second unistrut is pushed back up against the third unistrut so that there is about 15" between the first two unistruts. The table has been cut off at the third unistrut. The fact that the second unistrut is pushed back against the third unistrut makes it easy to put the cut piece of the table back on when the rotary axis is not being used.

The rotary axis consists of the headstock and the tailstock. The headstock shaft was made from 1" diameter drill rod. It was threaded 1-8 at one end and turned down to 3/4" at the other. The 3/4" end holds a 30 tooth pulley. The motor is mounted on a 12" X 6" aluminum plate milled with the appropriate features to mount the motor. Slots are also milled into the plate so that it can be mounted in a way that allows the belt to be tensioned. The motor pulley is a ten tooth pulley giving us a 1:3 ratio. The stepper motor is 1200 oz/inches giving us a lot of torque for larger work pieces.

The tailstock was purchased from Grizzly for $50. Both the headstock and tailstock are mounted on 3/4" plywood. The plywood is bolted to 2" X 2" X 1/4" aluminum angle. The angle is bolted (using slots for adjustment) to another piece of angle that rides on the unistrut and is held to the unistrut with 5/16" bolts, unistrut nuts and handles with threaded inserts.

This all sounds complicated, but it is a really clean and easy to fabricate design. The rotary axis can be pulled off the machine in seconds and the table top returned to its original size in a couple of minutes. Please look through the pictures to understand how it was all done. BTW, as designed the rotary axis will handle a work piece up to to 41" long and 12" in diameter. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

More pictures

More pictures.

The last of the pictures.

rgoldner

let see some chips flying off that new axis and some impressive turnings..

Bob

OK, I've read the thread... haven't bought the plans yet, but may very well. I have one nagging question that I'm just not seeing from the various pictures.

Why the HDPE? Seems like that could have been MDF or metal or something... just like it, or???

Not knocking the decision at all (its a neat material), but just trying to figure out what I'm missing in the functionality.

Thanks!

Bruce

HDPE is easy to work with for those who do not have the means to machine alumn. of other metals. It works better than HDPE for this application, and also holds up to to the motors heat, I have it on mine for over a year and 1/2 and it still holding up as day one.

HDPE is easy to work with for those who do not have the means to machine alumn. of other metals. It works better than HDPE for this application, and also holds up to to the motors heat, I have it on mine for over a year and 1/2 and it still holding up as day one.

Thanks Joe, appreciate it!

James is wrapping up his build with a cool lookiing paint job, as well as a nice orginised wood base which houses the controller, electronics and computer.

Love this thread!

is the rotary axis in joes 4x4 hybrid plans or was that a mod of your own that was added ? i want to build joes 2006 and use it to build this one in the future.

is the rotary axis in joes 4x4 hybrid plans or was that a mod of your own that was added ? i want to build joes 2006 and use it to build this one in the future.

The 4th Axis is an additional mod's people are doing on the machine, plus others, i.e. Dovetail cutting etc.

Bill's machine is looking nice.

cant wait to build my 2006 so i can use it to build this one, thanks for the info joe

cant wait to build my 2006 so i can use it to build this one, thanks for the info joe

Make sure to do a build log in the 2006 area, we all like to see a machine come together, plus people can help if you need any guidance.

I'll be sure to upload photos and info on the build once i start, I really want to build it all myself but i have limited tools, jig saw, circular saw, and drill basically. I could buy the kit from joe if I decide I don't have the necessary tools to get a precise build. I think my girlfriends father has some mdf in his garage, think i'll see how it works out with what I got as far as tools.

Make sure to do a build log in the 2006 area, we all like to see a machine come together, plus people can help if you need any guidance.

I know there are several instances of building a CNC to use to build a CNC, but after a quick look at the plans, how much do you guys think this fits with Joe's designs.

The hybrid with its fair amount of metal has fewer wood/HDPE parts (or am I wrong) than the 2006. If I was cutting by hand, looks like fewer parts better.

I had been kind of thinking about cutting stuff by hand, getting it going, and using it to "make itself better/prettier" if needed (depending on how my hand-done parts came out).

What do the experts think?

Bruce

I don't see a need to build a machine to build Joe's 4x4. As you said, there doesn't appear to be many wood parts. I haven't seen the plans, so not sure how many wood / plastic parts there actually are?

Just buy the MDF and HDPE kit from Joe and you will have it made in the shade. Very easy build. The worst part was waiting for all the parts to arrive.

Hey Joe!
I've really got the bug to build your 4x4. My woodworking shop (20'x20') Is full of equipment and I figure I'll need to put it where my table saws' outfeed table is. Only catch is the X axis ways. I've seen some of the 4x4's modified with one or the other way apparently flush to the surface of the bed. Is it doable to make both ways flush?
Thanks. Joe Cleary

Don has just about finished his 4x4 Hybrid.

How about a 4x4 Hybrid traveling at 1,200ipm.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DonTKellogg#play/all/uploads-all/1/YndmWTSLVxE

Holy crap that's fast, what,s the cutting speed like Joe? what drive screws and drivers does he use, How would the machine handle if cutting close to that speed. Guess it would never carve at that speed.Looks awesome. Graham

haha thanks the rapid was closer to 1300 :)

Everyone's cutting speeds are different, there are allot of variables in machines built, and also preferences.

Myself I cut at 160ipm, and rapid at 260ipm on my machine.

I know Don did allot of homework researching everything from leadscrews to the controllers so he can "be all he can be" :)

Hey Don, way too cool a machine, so how does she cut or carve.are you using ball screws or acme rod. steppers or servo's? sorry for the questions, I'm planning on building the hybred my self once I get the funds, so basically just pricing every thing and seeing what I can do.
Joe you say 160" , is that carving speeds on the finish pass?

finish pass with a 1/8" ball nose i usually use 120 to 140 ipm.

Hey Don, way too cool a machine, so how does she cut or carve.are you using ball screws or acme rod. steppers or servo's? sorry for the questions, I'm planning on building the hybred my self once I get the funds, so basically just pricing every thing and seeing what I can do.
Joe you say 160" , is that carving speeds on the finish pass?

I'm using Acme Rod right now, 1/2" 10, 5 start on X and Y, 1/2" 8, 2 on the Z. Currently using 570 oz NEMA 23 Steppers. As for cutting I'm pretty new to home CNC the dust shoe was cut at 150 IPM. I'm sure the machine can cut faster and over time I'll try it, but I'm following Joe's suggestions.

Did you get the motors from Keling or HomeShopCNC? So, you're getting ~2400 rpm from those? If so, then that means the belt drive I'm currently designing with those motors might be even faster. ;)

HomeShopCNC

So Don your screws are not direct drive?

Correct 570 OZ motors to Dumpster couplers, to 1/2 10, 5 start acme screws. These run through Flange Bearings and a Anti Backlash nut.

So there not geared? I believe that if you have your motor shaft connected to a coupling then to your drive screw that's direct drive. Are you using gecko drivers?

They were lovejoyed with the rubber pieces inbetween. I just put Dumpster couplers so yes now they are locked in place. I'm not using gears.

That is a fast machine. Is the z axis the same pitch thread as the x and y? Thanks.

No the Z Axis is a 1/2" 8, 2 start

Joe has a solid project that continues to evolve thanks to the wonder group of folks on his forum. As a life long engineer I'm impressed by the innovations that his forum continues to drive. I must say It never ceases to amazes me the things the folks on that forum come up with. If your considering Joe's CNC I highly recommend it, you will not be sorry.

Kent has finished his machine, just needs final tweeks and dust collection.

He build a cabunate within the unistrut base which houses computer and controller system G203v's, also has magnetic limit switches, relays for router and dust collection, and another neat feature he incorporated are encoders.

Beautiful machine.

Thought i would consolidate the pictures of completed machines so people will not have to look all over the thread for them.

you can always see them at www.joescnc.com in the gallery.

Just an example of what can be done with Joe's 4x4 design. Just one of many modifications that can be done to a Joe's 4x4 machine!
My machine is not totaly completed as yet but its cutting parts. All made possable by Joe's 4x4 basic design. Its all made in alum...no MDF or HDPE. Thanks Joe!! for making it possable for me to build my fantastic dream machine!!

AL..............


YouTube - The Making of Tunnel Dust Shoe Part 2

Great video and very nice machine, I believe we have two total Aluminum hybrids now, well they are not a true hybrid's now other than the overall design, but still a good representation of the original design. :)

do the plans have an accumulation of all the changes upgrades updates etc..
thanks

do the plans have an accumulation of all the changes upgrades updates etc..
thanks

The plans are the basic machine, in detail, and I have a MOD section on the support forum in which people have posted their mods on their particular machine, some very nice machines have been built. This was one of the purposes of the support forum for the ones building the machine to discuss, ideas to make the machine to fit their needs.

Other here which are on that particular forum can testify to how useful the forums have been, and continue to be.

I forgot to post a video Paul did a while back when cutting out a router mount on his standard hybrid. He also used widgetworks drag bit which i thought was cool.

YouTube - Cutting a Router Mount

I was one of the early adopters of the Hybrid, and I can tell you the forums are phenomenal. The people make it awesome, not just the amount of knowledge and smarts on there. Many of them I would trust unconditionally, others I would just watch closely with a camera :o

I am about as smart as a box of rocks and that is an insult to the rocks. I was still able to build my hybrid in less than 3 months, and it continues to work hard every time I use it. I have had mine running for about a year and 4 months now, and I am still impressed every time a piece comes off of it.

Great work Joe.
God I love this stuff!!

Mike

Great work Joe.
God I love this stuff!!

Mike

Ditto, Fun Hobby.

I should probably do the next test first before posting but:

I did my first cut today with the 4x4. The cut was a 2x2 square and a circle 2 inches diameter. Both cuts are 0.25 deep into 3/4 MDF.

Cutting bed size (which may matter in this) x=36", y=70" (so it's not really 4x4)
Results are:

square: x=2", y=1.965", z=0.25"
circle: x=2", y=1.965, z= 0.25"

Is this within the tolerance that other people are seeing with their machines?

And one else seen anything like this?

I guess the next test is to cut a 4 inch square and see in the y axis is off by .035 (as in the 2" case) or is it off by 0.070. I'm assuming for this post that it is a additive constant and not multiplicative.

Other than this small issue it cuts absolutely beautiful.

Thanks,

Is not there any chance to "teach" the CNC software that 1.965" in your Y-axis is actually 2" in the program, so it can do the necessary ratio changes?

Hi Rhino3master,

There probably is a way. What I found is the mount for one of my y axis leadscrew nuts had a loose screw. Tightening this up cut the error in half.

When I put the unit together initially I had a lot of trouble with this particular antibacklash nut. Every time I tightened it up the axis would freeze. The fix that Tim as dumpster recommended was to make a tap using a spare piece of acme 1/2 5 start and clean out the nut. I'm thinking now that I may have been a little overzealous in cleaning it out and will have to replace it sometime soon.

Is not there any chance to "teach" the CNC software that 1.965" in your Y-axis is actually 2" in the program, so it can do the necessary ratio changes?

Only if it is consistently this measurement.....

Only if it is consistently this measurement.....


You just need to change the settings in MACH to reflect this measurement and it will calculate new steps per inch and set your motor tuning so that this is taken care of.

It looks like it is a consistent thing.

Is not there any chance to "teach" the CNC software that 1.965" in your Y-axis is actually 2" in the program, so it can do the necessary ratio changes?

Depending on software, yes. If the error is linear..i.e. each inch is off the same amount across the screw, you can calculate your steps per inch to the actual measured amount. If it is non linear error, you can do screw error compensation in some like MACH3.

Looks like there is a good way to fix such issues with Mach 3. :cheers: Thanks for the quick replies, guys, I too needed such answer as I'm just finishing my first CNC build and most likely I will use Mach 3 to adjust my steps per... one meter (I hope that such option is included in Mach 3 as it will provide a lot better result than steps per one inch). :idea:

OK, that sounds good. Lets define the term "consistent error" really carefully. I haven't gotten back to do the appropriate testing to back this up yet to see which case I have, but I believe it is case 1.

case 1

I believe this to be the the error I have and it occurs when the screw changes direction due to some slop in the AB nut (definition of backlash as I understand it). In which case, if I cut a 1" square then it will be short in the y direction by .035. If I go and then cut a 2" square, it will also be short in the y direction by .035. etc. etc. Is this what you mean by consistent? I.e. y(f) = y(i) - .035

case 2

Or do you mean I cut a 1" square and it is off by .035, a 2" square is off by .070, etc. I.e. y(f) = y(i) - y(i)*.035 where y(i) = 1, 2, 3, ...

Both are "consistent", but case 2 is nonlinear

I'm assuming the first case can be solved with the backlash adjustment in Mach3 (which I will have to go and read up on because I had completely forgot it was there until you mentioned it)?

OK, that sounds good. Lets define the term "consistent error" really carefully. I haven't gotten back to do the appropriate testing to back this up yet to see which case I have, but I believe it is case 1.

case 1

I believe this to be the the error I have and it occurs when the screw changes direction due to some slop in the AB nut (definition of backlash as I understand it). In which case, if I cut a 1" square then it will be short in the y direction by .035. If I go and then cut a 2" square, it will also be short in the y direction by .035. etc. etc. Is this what you mean by consistent? I.e. y(f) = y(i) - .035



No case 1 is error caused by backlash.


case 2

Or do you mean I cut a 1" square and it is off by .035, a 2" square is off by .070, etc. I.e. y(f) = y(i) - y(i)*.035 where y(i) = 1, 2, 3, ...


case 2 can be nonlinear screw error or linear screw error.

Backlash shows up usually in direction change and is best handled with an antibacklash nut.

Screw error needs to be measured. Screws have errors in non linearity in that pitch varies by some tolerance through out the length of the screw. i.e. a .2" pitch screw might be .2001 in one place on the screw and .1998 in another and .1996 in another. This kind of error needs to be done by mapping the screw error.

Linear error in a .2 pitch 2 start screw might show up as .1999 consistently the length of the screw. So if the screw is 4' long you would be at 47.976 inches verses 48.000 inches when it is rotated 240 times. that can be corrected in steps per inch.

The most likely cause is backlash... If your AB nut is that sloppy replace it... it also could be caused by loose connection (set screw or loose lovejoy) however the measurement would vary ever so slightly

Here is the rack and pinion modification now for the machine (one way)

It is a very simple modification, along with being faster and cheaper than the original lead screw design.

YouTube - Rack and Pinion Modification Test for Joe's 4x4 Hybrid

Here is the rack and pinion modification now for the machine (one way)

Details?

Details?

CNCRouterParts rack and pinion drive, same Hybrid carriages with modification.

Use a 1" dial indicator and a gage block to test
move the carriage one direction to preload it
then move it back and measure the distance (+ the loss)
measure in the middle of the axis and close to the ends
Wear is most in the middle, backlask is consistant
(make sure it is well lubricated - it effects the outcome)
The ends should be equal and the middle more
You can't get rid of all backlash as the drive would be too tight
it is set depending on what type of drive
ball screws have the least (but most expensive)
Take the measurements three times (both directions)
backlash should be the same both directions
You should have a mechanical backlash corrector and should be set per manual
electronic backlash correction (drive screw wear) should be minor after mechanical correction (use a dial indicator to check and apply corrections to the correction table - electronic corrections in the Operating System) The manual should tell you the distance (should be 1" or less depending on the system)
Drive screw manufactures and control systems should have the procedure.
I have done it several methods (with dial indicator and sometimes a precision laser) but every method starts with the mechanical correction. The drive screw and the mechanical backlash corrector. You must determine if wear or backlash. If wear beyond the backlash corrector, then repair or replace the nut or nut and screw. Some mechanical backlash correctors use springs on the nut (two nuts spring loaded). Try to find out how the mechanical backlash corrector works. If none, you can make one for small machines and light loads.
-
hope this helps
falcon

Mod looks good, Chris! Glad the new R&P worked out for you.

Best regards,

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

Mod looks good, Chris! Glad the new R&P worked out for you.

Best regards,

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

It is working great Ahren. I think that you will have a bunch of guys ordering them from our forums :D

Thanks again for the great support.

Here is Kents Build, he has installed just about everything you can think of on the machine.

all the homing and limit switches, Dust collection relay, Router relay control, with a program and a circuit board that he and another member created which scenes current to the router for control. He has a removable 4th axis in which he removes part of the bed and the 4th axis slides in place, and also has the 90 deg, attachment to do dovetail cutting with the boards vertical.

Here is the newest video my hybrid with the CNCRouterParts.com Rack and Pinion modification and high speed screws on the X.

Rapids for Y/A set at 750ipm (very easily could go to 1200, 750 is pretty scary on a 4 foot bed, I think I will leave it there)
Rapids for X set at 400ipm (once I get a couple of things tidied up I should be able to move it to 600ipm)
Z Accel is set to 50

Cut was done at 200ipm, but the next one I am going to try 300ipm and see how it handles it. If I don't see any dimensional problems with it, then I will keep it at 300ipm.

Make sure to watch in HD.

YouTube- GR Research AV1 Kit on Joe's Hybrid 4x4

Hello everyone, This is my first post here. I've been doing a lot of reading about Joe's Hybrid router. I have seen a lot of mods done on Joe's machine, but I have not seen anything on a ballscrew being used. Is it possible or has anybody done it? The reason I'm asking is because I want to build Joe's Hybrid with as little backlash as possible. I want to make highly detailed 3D carvings.

One of the 4x8's cutting cabinets.

YouTube- S4020975

Hello everyone, This is my first post here. I've been doing a lot of reading about Joe's Hybrid router. I have seen a lot of mods done on Joe's machine, but I have not seen anything on a ballscrew being used. Is it possible or has anybody done it? The reason I'm asking is because I want to build Joe's Hybrid with as little backlash as possible. I want to make highly detailed 3D carvings.

no one using ball screws i know of, cost is a factor also, most cutting wood, the acme is plenty.

i believe rick has a 4 x 4 , he makes the cribbage boards and such, how detailed ya want to get ?
http://www.vectorart3d.com/gallery/index.cfm?Category=Wood%20Work
i dont believe he has ballscrews, just acme.

Wow, that's really nice stuff. Thank you for the link Sawmiller .That's exactly the type of carvings I want to do. I'm sorry but I am totally new to CNC and I have been doing a lot of reading and it sounded like this backlash could be a problem for carvings. Looks like a little is not a problem. While we are here and on this subject, can someone recommend a good CNC book on carving, explaining cutting tools, cut rates and such. This newbie can use all the help he can get.

Wow, that's really nice stuff. Thank you for the link Sawmiller .That's exactly the type of carvings I want to do. I'm sorry but I am totally new to CNC and I have been doing a lot of reading and it sounded like this backlash could be a problem for carvings. Looks like a little is not a problem. While we are here and on this subject, can someone recommend a good CNC book on carving, explaining cutting tools, cut rates and such. This newbie can use all the help he can get.

The Anti-Backlash nuts we use from dumpserCNC takes care of the backlash you are talking about, plenty well enough to do 3d carvings, Look at the small dragon I did in the galley of my website there are allot of examples, I even did a small mold to make my own fishing lure, modeled the fish in aspire and cut it out. the scales came out nice.

A good resource for knowledge is the Vectric.com forums, plenty of examples and people tell what tooling and feeds/speeds used in their carvings, you will start to get a feel for it.

Hi all...
I´m a 23 year old man (boy) from Norway, and I´m truly amazed by this tread. I have a dream of start building my own cnc router some day:)

Right now I´m studying to take my bachelor degree in product design, so I will try to design my own machine, but I hope it´s alright if I can learn from your tries and fails, hopefully I don´t have to make the same mistakes.... Since I am a student I don´t now when I will be able to get the cash needed to build the machine I want, but I will make some very detailed drawing, and hopefully start building in summer 2K10.

Check out http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93668

Cheers, Håvard

The machine is like a vortex sweeping in any wayward web traveler into its obsessive grip.

I can't help myself. I must have one!

:banana::banana::banana:

I built a 4x4 and I have to say once again. Get off your butts, stop reading this thread, purchase the plans to gain access to the "Special Forum", be amazed at the help you are going to get right off the bat, see the new mods that are going on, and start making money.

This machine is so unbelievable and can't say enough!!! For a diy CNC machine I am just blown away at the results of what I am getting out of it.

Please join us in the forum and start a new chapter in your life with a great machine....

Any questions just ask. But..... Join now!!! You can thank me later once you are in the forum...

Cheers!!

Here you go, My joes hybrid stretched to 4X8 running full cncrouter parts rack and pinion drive. Rapids 600ipm and 50 acceleration.

In the following video I am running 250ipm and 40 acceleration. The reason I am running 250ipm is because the optimum chip load for a 2 flute cutter is 264ipm. So I just rounded it off to a nice round 250ipm.

Here I am cutting out a side of a cabinet 83"X20"X27" and using the remainder of the material to do some toys.

It is worth watching about 3/4 of the way through when I cut out the moose. It will give you a good idea of the performance of the machine.


YouTube- cabinet cutting 2

Nice Video, I will add that he also place a steel 4" wide plate to the front of the Gantry since it was stretched in that direction, to stiffen it and help ensure no sag in the gantry or flex while cutting.

Is it possible for you to reveal how you set up your rack and pinion?
I don´t know where I shall set up mine in my drawing.
You can see picture of the drawing of my future machine in the tread
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93668

Cheers, Håvard

Quick question:
I have used hot rolled angle iron on my machine and with amount of cutting I have done I noticed substanital wear. I do realize that this machine will never be as durable as production units. I am thinking of replacing with stainless as cold rolled is not made in that size. I hope that will solve my problem as I like to have tight fit with accuracy of my machining. Any input is apperciated.

Is it possible for you to reveal how you set up your rack and pinion?
I don´t know where I shall set up mine in my drawing.
You can see picture of the drawing of my future machine in the tread
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93668

Cheers, Håvard

The Rack and Pinion is incorporated into my Y-Axis Carriage which is different from your setup, you would need to set yours up as shown on Ahrens Website. cncrouterparts.com this would be the best example for your system.

Quick question:
I have used hot rolled angle iron on my machine and with amount of cutting I have done I noticed substanital wear. I do realize that this machine will never be as durable as production units. I am thinking of replacing with stainless as cold rolled is not made in that size. I hope that will solve my problem as I like to have tight fit with accuracy of my machining. Any input is apperciated.

I have been cutting for two years with mine and the angle iron is still in good pretty good condition using the v-bearings. others also have been using the machine for quite a while and still going, I do not know of anyone who has replaced their rails due to wear yet.

Maybe I am anal about it. And to do with high end production CNC routers has something to do with it. Next time you are in Austin area come look me up I will give 25 cents tour of the shop.

Maybe I am anal about it. And to do with high end production CNC routers has something to do with it. Next time you are in Austin area come look me up I will give 25 cents tour of the shop.

yea would love to see the shop, I'm about 45 minutes from Austin. Maybe on my next trip to Cabellas for some reloading suplies.

Why not buy the proper V roller track and bolt it to the angle iron?

Several members have gone with I 1/4-3/8" aluminum bar stock and fastened precision ground v-rail to it with button head fasteners. You will spend a bit more doing this upgrade but I haven't heard any complaints going this route. I like Joe have been running the machine for quite some time and I see no true wear on the angle iron. Every now and again I do a little snug up check on the rollers to make sure they fully contact the angle iron and that they aren't loose.

Do you have any particular vendor in mind on that ground V track?

Check www.cadcamcadcam.com

Ok, alot of people have been asking about the machine, So after alot of thinking, designing, building, redesigning, rebuilding (three times) this is what i have thus far, it uses the my Carriage design on the X-Axis as well as the Y-Axis, the machine is accessed from the front. The X-Axis will actually be across the machine and the Y-Axis is front to back (Two motors). Using the STMD Drivers and the Keling 425oz motors, because of the length of the lead screws I travel at 120ipm. which is pleanty for me for a home built machine, (as it is I cut at 80 to 100 with rapids of 200ipm on my present machine). Using the 1/2"-8 two start acme, Dumpster Anti-backlash, and so on, the setup is very smooth, I will try to use a PC 7518 eventually on it but for now will prob. use the Hitachi.

Ok, what I am asking from you guys is to help design the Z-Axis as you can see in the picture the Z-Axis slide will be a bolt on to the front, 4-5/16" bolts. the width has to be 6" total for the bolt on plate and the over all width can not exceed 7.5" (to alow for the 48" travel) the bottom of the Axis carriage is 5.5" from table top and have to count for the auto tool changer. I have 4 V-Bearings which will be used for the Z-Axis slide. I have a few idea's but would like a little input and additional thoughts.

So if you can please submit DWG files and we can discuss them and maybe you will be the one to design my Z-Axis.

Thanks, Joe

Hi Joes I bought your plans back in may I rely liked it but i changed a few things to help make it fit into my very small shop here is what i came up with . these are my own personal drawing and were never ment to be seen by anyone else so I hope you can make sense of them. I managed to come up with a much smaller design for the x axis with 8.5 inches of travel . enjoy Kris

I apologize for jumping in here on a different topic. I like the comments on this thread and I thought you guys would be able to help me.
I'm wanting to build a cnc I'd like to use as a business. I'd be cutting hardwoods mostly and need precision every time. I'd like to experience and savor the build but at the moment I would rather buy a kit, put it together and get to use the machine. I was looking at Joe's Original design but started looking into the Hybrid today. The “original” kit is about $265 more than the Hybrid. Does that offset the cost of the pricier aluminum extrusions making them nearly the same price to build?
Also I have very little experience with electronics and wiring. I do a lot of woodworking so building isn’t out of my realm.
Here’s a quick “Buy List” I’ve gathered over the past week. I’d like to make this as Plug & Play electrical wise as I can while still saving some money. I would really appreciate some suggestions.
Joe’s Original Kit - $435
Acme Screws 3 x 36” - $38each
Anti-Backlash Parts & DumsterCNC - $100
Hobby CNC EZ Driver Board Pkg, 305oz motors - $265
Mach3 - $175
Cut2D - $150
AutoCAD 2002 – Have it

I also can't seem to get in contact with Joe, which worries me about ordering.

Jeez,

Joe is the easiest guy in the world to get in contact with.

My suggestions would be to build a joes hybrid rack and pinion drive. Use the hobbycnc 425 oz motors and the gecko drive g540.

If you want truly plug and play electronics then get the gecko drive g540 and cnc router parts motors that are prewired. Then all you have to do is connect 3 wires from the power supply to the g540.

You are looking at $2500 for just a mechanically running machine then add in the software to run it.

You want the sturdy quality hybrid machine instead of the MDF machine.

Thanks Stoney. Maybe Joe's on vacation or something.
What are the big costs of the Hybrid. I'm not really seeing how you get up to $2500 exluding software. I can't find the extrusions on ebay that are used for the hybrid kit. Does each side of the gantry have 2 extrusions connected that stack on top of each other or is it one piece?
I appreciate the help.
If you guys would rather me ask these questions in another thread just let me know. I don't mean to hijack it or get you guys off topic.

Looks like the right thread to me...it is called "Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid".

The extrusions are $75 or around there. that is $225.

The kit from Joe is $400 The plans are $100

The gear rack is $150 The rack and pinion drives are $300

The steppers are $200. The G540 is $300. The power supply is $100. Wire is $50 Nuts and bolts $100

Now which base you build depends on what you want. That is about $400

This puts you at $2400 and we have not talked about bits, the router, and mount. Some of these are just round numbers so $2500 for a basic machine is a good ball park figure.

Gear rack and rack and pinion drive.. are those upgrades or necessary for this design? Does Joe's kit not come with a mount for a router or just plans for a mount? Or did you mean something else by "mount"
Thanks for helping me with the estimate. I'm still trying to swing this by the wife. We just had to buy a new snowblower and fix my truck.

Joe's kit is merely the MDF for the carriages and the HDPE for the bearings and motor mounts.

We use the k2cnc router mount to hold a router. This is bolted to the z axis slide.

The rack and pinion replace all the lead screws, motor mounts and bearings except for the z axis which still uses a lead screw. Rack and pinion saves a lot of headaches and just a better drive system because of screw whip and other factors.

here is the rack and pinion i built

YouTube- cabinet cutting 2

Thanks Stoney. Maybe Joe's on vacation or something.
What are the big costs of the Hybrid. I'm not really seeing how you get up to $2500 exluding software. I can't find the extrusions on ebay that are used for the hybrid kit. Does each side of the gantry have 2 extrusions connected that stack on top of each other or is it one piece?
I appreciate the help.
If you guys would rather me ask these questions in another thread just let me know. I don't mean to hijack it or get you guys off topic.

I would agree with Stony, Joe is a very easy guy to get a hold of.

As far as cost I would say 2,500.00 is very close 8020, Rack & Pinion (or screws), electronics (steppers, controller, wire, limit switches, on and on.), nuts & bolts, V-bearing, unstrut, router, router mount, MDF, HDPE, steel L-angle. This is a short list it does add up in a hurry.

Some have spent much more steel base, aluminum carriages, on and on..

All I can say the knowledge that comes with the plans is well worth the cost.

Thanks.
How do you guys contact Joe? I tried the email on his web site and sent him a message on cnczone. I gave him my phone number too.

Thanks.
How do you guys contact Joe? I tried the email on his web site and sent him a message on cnczone. I gave him my phone number too.

You sent a message to yahoo right? he should get to you, he has been very busy building a new workshop for his new machine.

The Model 2006 would cost between 1,200 and 1,500 and the Hybrid is running like "rdhharm" said about 2,500 give or take, just depends on location, parts availability and the builders capabilities and resourcefulness. I believe "rdhharm" built the 2006 first then stepped up to the hybrid, also the electronics you will need to add a 4th motor and driver for the hybrid machine, plus wiring it in.

Thanks Joe. I understand that you're working on a new shop. That would make me Very hard to get a hold of. Good luck with it and I appreciate the help.

The rack and pinion system Joe is using is from CNC Router Parts, and I believe Joe is almost done integrating it into an updated set of plans. If you want to see more about it, the product page and an instructional video are below:

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=50

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=65

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

Thanks Joe. I understand that you're working on a new shop. That would make me Very hard to get a hold of. Good luck with it and I appreciate the help.

I get allot of emails and try to get to all of them, If you want to send another just mention this thread also if you have some direct questions, I also called and left you a message last night with my number. I get home from work after 6pm central time.

Joe

The rack and pinion system Joe is using is from CNC Router Parts, and I believe Joe is almost done integrating it into an updated set of plans. If you want to see more about it, the product page and an instructional video are below:

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=50

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=65

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

I am getting close, there are already 4 people using the rack and pinion kit, with good results, I am also using your motors and wires with the g540, appears to be a good combo.

Joe

Rack and Pinion MOD on Bill's Machine, Using the CNCRouterParts Kit.

YouTube- r&p update_0001.wmv

Thanks Joe and Ahren,

I am happy I upgraded my Joe's CNC Hybrid to Rack & Pinion drives from cncrouterparts.com. The machine modifications take the 4x4 into the production level in my opinion.

The modifications to the X carriage really stiffens the machine up and the R&P drives let the gantry moves extremely fast. I would advise you treat the machine with respect because it is faster than you are.

It is difficult to post too much detail on the zone about this design without giving away too many of Joe's Trade secrets. I suggest that anyone who is sitting on the fence about taking on this build should GO FOR IT!

It took my brother and son about one week to upgrade the machine from start to finish (which included cutting two sets of gantry parts). If you have the proper plan set ahead of time you could do the build in half the time.

I will gladly answer questions about the process but I have already done a step by step documentation on the http://joescnc.com site. Owners of the plans have full access to this information.

I will try and post an abreviated version of my upgrade on the cnczone.

Bill

Bill,

Glad you like the upgrade! Your machine looks really good.

Joe, I will be putting some kits up for motors, cables, G540 and power supplies on the site tonight -- I now offer a 12.5 A supply that's better suited to 4 motors systems. How is the cable length for this mod? Would a longer or shorter cable be helpful?

Also, I see there are some modifications made for the pivot in the system. Is there a part I should offer as an option for Joe's users to make cncrouterparts a better "one stop shop" for this upgrade?

Lastly, I see most people who have upgraded have drilled the rack. I have had a couple of Joe's users contact me about rack clamps for Joe's machines to avoid having to do this operation. Any further interest for these? If so, I may do a run of 200 or so.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

Bill,

Glad you like the upgrade! Your machine looks really good.

Joe, I will be putting some kits up for motors, cables, G540 and power supplies on the site tonight -- I now offer a 12.5 A supply that's better suited to 4 motors systems. How is the cable length for this mod? Would a longer or shorter cable be helpful?

Also, I see there are some modifications made for the pivot in the system. Is there a part I should offer as an option for Joe's users to make cncrouterparts a better "one stop shop" for this upgrade?

Lastly, I see most people who have upgraded have drilled the rack. I have had a couple of Joe's users contact me about rack clamps for Joe's machines to avoid having to do this operation. Any further interest for these? If so, I may do a run of 200 or so.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

16' cables would be better.

For the pivot part we are using a sleeve 1/2" to 3/8" as we use a 3/8" bolt to mount the V-Bearings and go through the carriages, The best thing would be a threaded sleeve with 3/8" on the inside this would ensure a tight fit.

The clamps there may not be enough clearance for the carriage to pass over them we are trying to keep the carriage as close to the v-bearing and rails as possible.

Bill,

Glad you like the upgrade! Your machine looks really good.

Joe, I will be putting some kits up for motors, cables, G540 and power supplies on the site tonight -- I now offer a 12.5 A supply that's better suited to 4 motors systems. How is the cable length for this mod? Would a longer or shorter cable be helpful?

Also, I see there are some modifications made for the pivot in the system. Is there a part I should offer as an option for Joe's users to make cncrouterparts a better "one stop shop" for this upgrade?

Lastly, I see most people who have upgraded have drilled the rack. I have had a couple of Joe's users contact me about rack clamps for Joe's machines to avoid having to do this operation. Any further interest for these? If so, I may do a run of 200 or so.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

I agree that the clamps would have a difficult time clearing the carriages. With the current design, the bolt heads are within 1/8" of the carriage bearing plates. How thick are the Racck clamps?

Bill

The clamps stick out an additional 1/4" from the rack, so I think this is a no-go. I don't know if the pre-drilled racks from Fine Line Automation are appealing, but that's another option. Joe, you might give Diane from Moore Gear a call. Given the volumes of machines you've helped bring to life, you might be able to negotiate a stock rack that's a little bit taller that would be easier for DIYer's to drill. Not sure if this is really a dilemma for people, but it seems like there's not a lot of real estate to drill through.

As for the pivot, what if I just offered a bushing with a 3/8" ID pre-pressed into the plate? Then there's no extra parts involved.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

The clamps stick out an additional 1/4" from the rack, so I think this is a no-go. I don't know if the pre-drilled racks from Fine Line Automation are appealing, but that's another option. Joe, you might give Diane from Moore Gear a call. Given the volumes of machines you've helped bring to life, you might be able to negotiate a stock rack that's a little bit taller that would be easier for DIYer's to drill. Not sure if this is really a dilemma for people, but it seems like there's not a lot of real estate to drill through.

As for the pivot, what if I just offered a bushing with a 3/8" ID pre-pressed into the plate? Then there's no extra parts involved.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

the bushing is basically what I did, I pressed a 1/2"o.d.x 3/8"i.d. into your existing bushing.

Understood. To make things easier, I'll just offer a 5/8" OD by 3/8" ID pressed into the machined hole as an option, so you don't need a bushing inside a bushing :).

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

The clamps stick out an additional 1/4" from the rack, so I think this is a no-go. I don't know if the pre-drilled racks from Fine Line Automation are appealing, but that's another option. Joe, you might give Diane from Moore Gear a call. Given the volumes of machines you've helped bring to life, you might be able to negotiate a stock rack that's a little bit taller that would be easier for DIYer's to drill. Not sure if this is really a dilemma for people, but it seems like there's not a lot of real estate to drill through.

As for the pivot, what if I just offered a bushing with a 3/8" ID pre-pressed into the plate? Then there's no extra parts involved.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

I have predrilled 54" racks available soon for $55 each. The rack is the same 1/2" thickness and the holes are drilled so that it would sit at the same height as a 1/2"x1/2" rack with Ahren's rack clamps. Each rack has 13 holes that take a 5/16-18 x 5/8" SHCS and a Economy T-Nut. My question to you is will 54" be enough rack for the machine?

Edit: I forgot to mention that the racks are CNC ground racks from Moore Gear.

Regards,

Nate
www.finelineautomation.com

I have predrilled 54" racks available soon for $55 each. The rack is the same 1/2" thickness and the holes are drilled so that it would sit at the same height as a 1/2"x1/2" rack with Ahren's rack clamps. Each rack has 13 holes that take a 5/16-18 x 5/8" SHCS and a Economy T-Nut. My question to you is will 54" be enough rack for the machine?

Edit: I forgot to mention that the racks are CNC ground racks from Moore Gear.

Regards,

Nate
www.finelineautomation.com

Nate Sorry I did not get back with you sooner, The 54" will work for people building the standard 4x4 Hybrid because the rack can be placed anywhere along the 72" 80/20 slot and since there is only one contact point for the pinion, this would give people at least a 52" travel along the rack, more if they want to push to the edges of the rack, However some people want to have mre travel as they are placing an indexer rotary axis in the remaining space of the 72" 80/20 either in the front or the rear of the machine, But they could just splice a short piece of rack on that end and move the gantry to that area when needed, and since the standard 4x4 will not travel over the splice all the time that would work well also.

Can you post pictures of the rack and the pre-drill areas?

Joe

Here is the progress of a 4x8 machine, the gantry is the 8' section on this machine build by "kb". He modified the Carriage rear plate to accept Ahrens (CNCRouterPart) new nema34 rack and pinion kit for testing, not available yet in his store.
He also Added a plate to the front to minimize gantry beam deflection as sugested in the support forums.


YouTube- Machine X Moverment

The clamps stick out an additional 1/4" from the rack, so I think this is a no-go. I don't know if the pre-drilled racks from Fine Line Automation are appealing, but that's another option. Joe, you might give Diane from Moore Gear a call. Given the volumes of machines you've helped bring to life, you might be able to negotiate a stock rack that's a little bit taller that would be easier for DIYer's to drill. Not sure if this is really a dilemma for people, but it seems like there's not a lot of real estate to drill through.

As for the pivot, what if I just offered a bushing with a 3/8" ID pre-pressed into the plate? Then there's no extra parts involved.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

I had a conversation yesterday with someone building one of Joe's machines. It seems a thicker rack, perhaps .500" face x .750" thick may be easier to mount. If there is enough desire for this configuration, I will look towards having that size as a stock item so that the pricing makes sense for the average DIYer.

Diane
www.mooregear.com

I have predrilled 54" racks available soon for $55 each. The rack is the same 1/2" thickness and the holes are drilled so that it would sit at the same height as a 1/2"x1/2" rack with Ahren's rack clamps. Each rack has 13 holes that take a 5/16-18 x 5/8" SHCS and a Economy T-Nut. My question to you is will 54" be enough rack for the machine?

Edit: I forgot to mention that the racks are CNC ground racks from Moore Gear.

Regards,

Nate
www.finelineautomation.com

Thank you for the mention Nate. The racks are not actually "ground" but the quality of the teeth may give that impression.

If someone has built one of the rack and pinion machines using our rack, I would welcome permission to link to a video of the machine running.

Diane
www.mooregear.com