Hey mmeyer
What do you have in the way of a 9' length that would be double the width and height of the pieces we are using for the Joe 4x4?

cowdog,
9 foot. Now that's my kind of cnc machine. But where would I put it?

I'm not so sure you need to double the dimension though. Beam strength increases by the 3rd power of height. That's not 3 times, that the 3rd power.

So increasing the height from 4 inches to 5 inches (a 25% increase) will double your strength.

Think long and hard about doubling the values, it's probably not required.

Well there is something I was unaware of. If I can double the strength with just an inch increase in height then that is probably the way I need to go. A concern of mine is a torsional flex in the center of the 9' span. If you are cutting at 150ipm and 3/4" deep, then there would be a tendency for the router to flex backwards away from the cutting direction. I would need a beam that would not flex with that kind of stress. Perhaps 5" high and 2.5" thick would be sufficient.

If you wanted a larger beam there is a 6" x 3" size, and even slightly larger than that is the 160mm x 80mm size.

Jason

The one other thing that will have to be taken into consideration is you bed, the uni-strut probably will not work with a larger span it will flex and not give you a straight cutting surface, you may need to switch materials to sq. tubbing or 80/20.

Jason,
Thanks for the heads up on the 8020 size.That sounds like just what I need. Now to run down the cost of a 9' piece.

Joe,
I was hoping to still use the uni-strut since they come in 10' lengths and would be easiest to adjust to the new bed size. If I am just going from a 7' bed to 9' then perhaps just placing more of them closer together would compensate for the increased span.

Impressive work Joe.
The only thing that stopped me from using threaded rod as an axis drive was the idea of whipping action. You video demonstrated good movement speed and no whipping. I might give that a go next time.

Jason,
Thanks for the heads up on the 8020 size.That sounds like just what I need. Now to run down the cost of a 9' piece.

Joe,
I was hoping to still use the uni-strut since they come in 10' lengths and would be easiest to adjust to the new bed size. If I am just going from a 7' bed to 9' then perhaps just placing more of them closer together would compensate for the increased span.

my bed uses 60" (5') lengthes. I would possible use angle on the bottom bolted to it or something, it will surely sag and getting perfect straight pieces will be hard.

Joe

I made a Side Shield to help keep the cuttings on the table and also help from chips flying onto the lead screw.

Its a 1/4" thick x 6" plexi with carpet runner at the bottom, the 1/4" plexi is against the 80/20 and held into place with 1/4" machine screws, washer and t-nuts. The carper runner is slid under the washer to hold into place, It should work well.

Joe

I have been reading up as much as possible and I think that I am ready to get started.

The HobbyCNC 305 4 axis kit is what I am planning on getting started with, does anyone see a problem with this for a hobby (mostly on the weekends) type setup?

Also, Joe, I replied to a post in the yahoo group and will be ready to place my order once I hear your response on that. Once I get the BOM from Joe and the MDF parts, I am hoping to have a decently quick turn-around.

I hope to meet you fellow CNC DIY'ers at the Mach3 convention in Knoxville Tenn. this weekend.

Edited by me per Joe's request.

Joe,


If so, mark me down for a kit and plans and I tried to find your paypal with no luck. Once I have that I will send you the money.

correct, but i try to do transactions e-mail, it is under my name on here.

Edited by me per Joe's request.

I was going to cut all of the mdf myself, but I thought of all the other things that I have going on right now and it just would be more cost effective to buy a kit.

Joe,

As soon as I get your paypal (couldn't find it when I looked) I will send you the money.

please email me instead of continuing in the thread about price. the policy of CNCzone is to try not to have discussion on pricing. Look up under my name you will see e-mail (joecnc2006 at yahoo dot com).

joe

please email me instead of continuing in the thread about price. the policy of CNCzone is to try not to have discussion on pricing. Look up under my name you will see e-mail (joecnc2006 at yahoo dot com).

joe

Will do.

Sorry about that, I will delete them out, the first two times the server hung on me and didn't show that it posted. I will contact you in a couple of minutes on email.

Here is my Dust Collection on the router, hard to see but i used 1/2" acrylic cut out on the 4x4, feed rate 100ipm, 0.05 depth cuts, 18,000 rpm, and used a 1/4" 0-flute upspiral. Took 6 min 31 sec. to cut out even at the 0.05" stepdown.

picture of cut out acrylic and everything installed on router.


Joe

Joe,
The dust collector is very classy. But it looks like your acrylic plate might be covering the cooling air port of the router. If that's so, then heat buildup might hurt the Hitachi.

Looks good Joe :-).
Does the vinyl work well for you? Do the sides suck in?

Joe,
The dust collector is very classy. But it looks like your acrylic plate might be covering the cooling air port of the router. If that's so, then heat buildup might hurt the Hitachi.

The router has two screws which protrude from the bottom about 1/8" so there is a 1/8" gap all around, this should be enough, but if not i can lower it slightly if needed but adjusting the two screws on the K2 router mount, I used a 1/2" bolt for the shaft with a nut and washer on top and a lock washer and nut on the bottom.

Looks good Joe :-).
Does the vinyl work well for you? Do the sides suck in?

The carpet runner works, i have also used it on my 2006 and the proto 4x4.

Joe

FYI...we added 11 of the 25-5010 x 72" surplus extrusions to our inventory yesterday. I believe we have eight remaining. Click here http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale?refid=store and type 25-5010 in the search box to locate the listing...

We have had a sizeable factory order for this extrusion that may result in some additional surplus bars. We do have a large number at 70-70.5" but I've assumed these would not be applicable to the 4X4 project.

I'll continue to let you know when or if we receive any additional surplus pieces at the magic 72" length.

Also, if you want to contact me try a direct email at mmeyer@8020plus dot com. I'm still not real comfortable with the forum process and not diligent at monitoring the posts...

FYI...we added 11 of the 25-5010 x 72" surplus extrusions to our inventory yesterday. I believe we have eight remaining. Click here http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale?refid=store and type 25-5010 in the search box to locate the listing...

We have had a sizeable factory order for this extrusion that may result in some additional surplus bars. We do have a large number at 70-70.5" but I've assumed these would not be applicable to the 4X4 project.

I'll continue to let you know when or if we receive any additional surplus pieces at the magic 72" length.

Also, if you want to contact me try a direct email at mmeyer@8020plus dot com. I'm still not real comfortable with the forum process and not diligent at monitoring the posts...

Thank you very much, people will be glad to see a few pieces as they collect their parts.

Joe

My dust collector motor would not turn when i hit the power switch, come to find out it was the Cap that was messed up, you can see the insides oozing out, so i got a replacement for 6.95 and it works like new now.

Joe

We do have a large number at 70-70.5" but I've assumed these would not be applicable to the 4X4 project.


Joe, wouldn't these work for the X axis? All the pictures I've seen show an inch or two extension past the Y carriages on both sides.

Joe, wouldn't these work for the X axis? All the pictures I've seen show an inch or two extension past the Y carriages on both sides.

Yes that is correct, the min. you can use on the (X-Axis Gantry) is 70" exactly I meadused it in solidworks, and can verify when i get home, if it is different i will post.

Joe

Here is a picture of the machine in my small 8'x8' room dedicated to the machine.

Joe

looks good joe, its a very big machine, moving it into its final place today I realized that, but it's in the same place where my 06 was and not taking much more room up, just a bit more in width. Now time to sell the 06 to someone adventurous enough to want to help lug it into a truck!

If you are like me, I do not really want to pay 10.00 for a clamp to hold down my parts and trying to find one to fit your specific machine is another thing.

So I made my own, the good thing about this one is you can just make the height shorter for different material thickness and your different table tops.

Here is a picture and a v-carve file for you to use.

Joe

p.s. notice in the picture the side shield catches the small chips that fly.

joe, did you get my PM about the link for the private forum?

joe, did you get my PM about the link for the private forum?

sent

Joe--the clamp looks superb..when i simulate the crv file in VC, i found the pocket toolpath like the picture shown...is that right? if yes what is the purpose???

Joe--the clamp looks superb..when i simulate the crv file in VC, i found the pocket toolpath like the picture shown...is that right? if yes what is the purpose???

Yes it is correct, it has a 0.125" pocket on each part, glue them together and it makes a 0.25" slot for the bolt to go through. and is elongated to allow allot of adjustment.

Joe

Ohhh... i forgot to glue the two pieces... i thought u are getting two clamps out of sheet...

Here's a couple pictures of my 4x4. Should be ready to fire up sometime this next week if all goes well.

Thanks for showing us your handy work jspencer.

The blue MDF looks great, very professional looking. What sort of paint did you use, and colour?

Cheers,

Claudio

Hi Joe and jspencer,

Does the timing belt prevent you from sliding a work piece great than 4ft (eg. a door) through the machine as this is what it appears to be doing in the jspencers pics.

Claudio

WOW, the machine is looking real good. looks like you will be cutting very soon.

Joe

Hi Joe and jspencer,

Does the timing belt prevent you from sliding a work piece great than 4ft (eg. a door) through the machine as this is what it appears to be doing in the jspencers pics.

Claudio

There is about 1/2" clearance, but there has been discussion and alternatives for people who want to do that. a different belt configuration and also maybe using cable system below the table.

Joe

Thanks for showing us your handy work jspencer.

The blue MDF looks great, very professional looking. What sort of paint did you use, and colour?

Cheers,

Claudio

I used Rustoleum Painter Touch White Primer and Deep Blue Gloss. Turned out really nice.

I'm curious if you've run it without the belt, and if so, did you notice any difference? I've read in the past that when you couple two steppers together like that, that they might "fight" each other somewhat, actually decreasing performance.

I'm curious if you've run it without the belt, and if so, did you notice any difference? I've read in the past that when you couple two steppers together like that, that they might "fight" each other somewhat, actually decreasing performance.

I have run the proto 4x4 many hours with out any problems, and my new 4x4 hybrid up to 3 hrs straight with no problems. I have not run it without the belt, really had no need to try.

Joe

Spencer,
Very nice table. The paint looks great, too.

Just curious has anyone tried cutting any aluminum or light ga. metal on this yet? Don't have a big need for that but it would be nice to cut small aluminum parts from time to time.

Just curious has anyone tried cutting any aluminum or light ga. metal on this yet? Don't have a big need for that but it would be nice to cut small aluminum parts from time to time.

I have not tried it yet, but am confident it should not be a problem, as long as you follow proper procedure in dry cutting aluminum.

joe

I got home a little late from work, instead of cutting I thought i would make a quick video, kinda introducing the machine, I have not made a video of this sort before so please be kind. It is almost 15 minutes long.

the original was over 500 megs, so i had to shrink it below 100 megs to upload and then i guess google shrunk it some more.

Enjoy, let me know what ya think.

Joe

Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid (into)

great video joe, It makes me want to take some vacation time so I can get started on mine!!!

Thanks for the video Joe, very informative. Nice to put a face to the name too.

Maybe if Jay ever resurfaces, he can give us some tips on making videos!

Cheers

Claudio

Awesome video Joe, makes more more excited every day. Should have all the materials tomorrow, and then just waiting on the kit to start!

Sorry for the quality of the video, I was hoping it would be better, my 1st video so its a learning experience, hopefully you get the just of it.

i thought it was great, a picture says a thousand words, a movie says 100X that! The quality of the video isn't your fault its the google video compression they force on our videos. I have an HD camera and the quality looks the same as yours when I post them online. The content was just fine don't be so critical of your own work!! Although i'm alwasy told that i'm my own worst critic, i guess thats prolly universal! You did great and I look fwd to seeing more video. The only way around the quality is if you have your own website and don't mind using up the bandwith, but that can get pricey in a hurry, I say the google video is just fine!

Cool comercial Joe, Machine looks great and love all the extras you put on the machine. Remote spindal cool. cant wait to see some cutting. Graham

Fantastic video - I can't wait to see the next video showing it cutting the MDF (or even some aluminum). I've been following along for a while - I really like how the design turned out.

I like your video Joe.
A couple of questions.
Your homemade seperator, did you make the top or purchase one of the plastic ones like Rockler and others sell?
What type of USB keypad are you using as a pendant?
You might want to try some of the strip brush from Mcmaster for your collector. I find it works really well and it does not block your view as much as you might think.

I like your video Joe.
A couple of questions.
Your homemade seperator, did you make the top or purchase one of the plastic ones like Rockler and others sell?
What type of USB keypad are you using as a pendant?
You might want to try some of the strip brush from Mcmaster for your collector. I find it works really well and it does not block your view as much as you might think.

I made mine. http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=408

The key pad is just a targus key pad.

Have links to skirts?

Joe

http://www.mcmaster.com/
type "strip brush" into the search box on the left. Mcmaster must hide all their pages behind java or something, the www.mcmaster.com never changes.
The aluminum mount channel is at the bottom of the page. I think I used 3/16" x 7/32" backing 2" brush and matching channel in style "4" .

Nice Video. I thought you would be older :)

We posted an additional 10 pieces of the surplus #25-5010 x 72" T-slot extrusions to the eBay store yesterday. I believe 7 are remaining. They may have some light surface scratches that won't have an impact on your application. You can find them in the store ( http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale?refid=store ) by typing 25-5010 in the Search box. Sorry for not providing a direct link - this link has a referral code that gives us credit against our eBay fees. By using it, you save us money so we can save you some...

There was a large factory order that resulted in some remainders that may be long enough for the project. I'll post the info if/when its confirmed that the pieces will work for the Hybrid build.

Outstanding video Joe. Very good job. Keep'um coming.

I am buying parts for your 4x4 a little at a time. I don't see how this one could be much better than your 2006, other than the size . I love my 2006.

By the way, you're not as ugly as I had pictured you:) (I'm sorry, I could not pass that up). But you're definitely not as old.

Thanks for the video,
Doug

Thank you for the compliments, I wish the video quality would have come out better.

Well I may be a little older than you think at 44.

Also the 80/20 has 7 of the pieces of the 72" at 47.99 now, also he found some at 70.5" which will work, instead of placing the motor mount 2" inward you can place it flush with the 80/20 end and just extend the pulley idler out the same amount to line the belt up.

Joe

Finally made it! Got some 8020 now. 4 Remaining surplus 82/20 left.

Also the 80/20 has 7 of the pieces of the 72" at 47.99 now, also he found some at 70.5" which will work, instead of placing the motor mount 2" inward you can place it flush with the 80/20 end and just extend the pulley idler out the same amount to line the belt up.

Joe[/QUOTE]


We do indeed have some additional pieces at 70.5" that we'll be listing soon. We're a person down but we hope to have them up by end of day...

Here is another sample of The MDF pieces cut by hand by and not on a CNC machine, He believe he used the templetes which are to scale and included in the plans.

They turned out really well, James he did a really good job.

Joe

Here are the videos as promised of the machine cutting out a portion of the CNC 4x4 Hybrid Kit.

Drilling Holes

Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid Cutting Part 1 of 4

Pocketing

Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid Cutting Part 2 of 4

Cutting out parts with tabs

Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid Cutting Part 3 of 4

A portion of the Nested Parts

Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid Cutting Part 4 of 4

p.s. I still need to change the d/c skirting. I used a shopvac in video's so you can see better, but after changing skirt the debre will be diminished.

Enjoy,
Joe

Joe,
Great job on the videos. I'm going to do some cutting today.

Joe,
Great job on the videos. I'm going to do some cutting today.

your 4x4 to a point to cut now?

joe

On the Shopbot forum I use to hear about people getting chatter marks in their work pieces here is a picture of one of the Y-Axis carriage straight out of the nested parts you see in the video, you can still see the tab is still on it, the cuts are pretty smooth.

Joe

Joe - what's the speed, depth of cut, and size tool are you using in the videos?

Joe - what's the speed, depth of cut, and size tool are you using in the videos?

I used the default in V-Carve pro, 100ipm, 0.125 depth and 1/4" 2 flute up spiral. rapids at 140ipm.

joe

Looks good Joe.
I think you will like the brush as a skirt. Its flexible enough to get out of the way, but does not get sucked up into the DC. They even sell 2 or 3 bristle sizes so you can choose how flexible.

Great videos Joe. The picture quality was significanty better this time, I guess as a result of them being shorter.

And I like the quality of cut you are getting as well.

Cheers

Claudio

On the Shopbot forum I use to hear about people getting chatter marks in their work pieces here is a picture of one of the Y-Axis carriage straight out of the nested parts you see in the video, you can still see the tab is still on it, the cuts are pretty smooth.

Joe

Jeo,
Really nice and smooth cuts.

How do Tabs get there, do you draw them in when drawing the part? Or How.
Thanks

Jeo,
Really nice and smooth cuts.

How do Tabs get there, do you draw them in when drawing the part? Or How.
Thanks

Its a feature in V-Carve Pro you can add them automatically or place them where you want and specify all the parameters of them, i.e. width and height, 3d or not.

Joe

I thought this was interesting, I got the parts cut (out sourced one complete set, mdf and hdpe) cost me over 450.00 and they gave me a price break (Ouch), win some loose some, anyway I took a picture of a their Y-Axis part on top of my Y-Axis part (theirs being the top one and mine being the bottom one).

Looks like they Made 4 depth cut passes to total 0.75", Mine are at 0.125" depth cut passes. Maybe they used an old bit, wrong bit or something. I'm sure they ran faster but I would think their cuts would me more consistent.

They used a 60,000 dollar large KOMO machine, or thats what they told me it cost, compared to my measly 2,500 CNC 4x4 Hybrid.

Joe

To tell you the truth Joe I am not surprised. One of my clients sent a job to another sign shop with a 4x8 AXYZ machine Each of the letters had a big difference between the top pass and all the other passes. My lowly JGRO has never produced such a bad set of letters.
He also sent a job to another shop to cut 4 foot circles on another high-end machine. I was very surprised to see that the start and finish of the circle were out of line.

I think the problem is these shops run a very high feed rate and it affects the quality of the cut.

Jason

The photo joe just showed is the reason why shopbot is able to compete with high end industrial machine manufacturers. Also (the machine that ran it probably had either wrong or bad tooling and wrong feeds/speeds).

Simple, basic but intelligently engineered, easy to assemble NO welding so that you can disassemble it in sections for transport, easy to move around with trailer jacks and most of all affordable to build. With the exception of the controller this machine cost me the same to build as the 2006 model Joe designed and has a larger cutting area and is significantly faster and stronger. I'm not even cutting yet and still pleased with the way the machine runs. I believe 2-3 people are just about to the point that they can begin test cutting this weekend, many more to follow. The user base is strong and the private forum is already content rich with almost 1000 posts to date in just its infancy. For those still on the edge to build the 06 or hybrid if you have the space and the need for a cutting area such as this go with the hybrid, to me it's a wonderful machine.

*Also a side note I mentioned to joe the important to me at least, a woodworker that edge quality off the table is of the utmost importance in time. I would rather the machine ran a tad bit slower to achieve the perfect cut with no chatter or stepover marks than to run it very fast and get that. Chatter and stepover marks only make the end result of edge banding or applied molding or gluing cabinet parts to frame members look worse, especially on a stain grade job.

............and the private forum is already content rich with almost 1000 posts to date in just its infancy.

Where is this private forum? Or is it private? :)

I'm hosting it for Joe, it is private to protect the integrity of the plans and provides free range discussion including high res photos of the plans, models and machine to protect Joe's hard work in developing the machine. It in no way takes away from the zone, just a private area where people can post without revealing the plans to the public. So yes it is indeed private to the rest. :)

The forum, is mainly to help people in their builds, thats why i call it my support forum. Really nothing else has been discussed there other than what pertains to the machine and its build, and to answer detailed questions if anyone has them, which has really been to a bare minimum. People have really taken off and built the machine quick, Most who already have a machine and wants a larger one.

Joe

joe,

Just wondering if I screwed something up in registering at the forum, it has been quit awhile now since I registered. Still need access.

GaryM

joe,

Just wondering if I screwed something up in registering at the forum, it has been quit awhile now since I registered. Still need access.

GaryM

Taken Care of.

Today I have been fighting a bad headache and also Cutting HDPE Nested parts. here are some pictures, 35 parts total in the nest. V-Carve Pro makes it a snap.

Cutting time 2 hours @ 100ipm, plus setup/cleanup time.

pictures are showing material clamped down, finished cut of nesting, and the cutting time.

Joe

Very cool joe, what's with the mach3 status, "too fast for pulley".. ? is that a custom input? Nice hold downs, gives you the ability and comfort to cut closer to the edge. I always leave about 3/4 to 1" or more being concerned about hitting screw heads or clamps. With yours if you hit them it's not a big deal, just cut some more ;) plus they are "friendly" to hit with the cutter should a mistake happen.

Edit: oops duplicate post, did not refresh right.

I do not know where that message came from, it has to be a simple setting in mach.

I leave 3/4" from edge of stock to the part so after cutting the 1/2" left is enough for the clamps to hold it.

Joe

Very nice Joe, Very Professional looking machine. Tell you I can sure use that machine right now, I have over 2000 board feet of cedar that im building patio furniture with that need to be done in the next 2 weeks and im doing this mostly on my own. the Money im making with that is going towards the Joes 4x4 hybred. Think of all the armrests and legs and such I can do with that in a day, Oh well Ill try my solsylva to help some maybe. Wish me luck. Graham

Hey I recognise that screen. :D:D

Graham, in volume sometimes a cnc router isn't even best unless you can achieve feedrates that would offset manual labor. I have found in the past especially with the 06 that even just cutting templates saves time and I can do the rest on the bandsaw and a flush trim set and whip out parts very fast. I cut most of my templates from 3/8" MDF. Nice thing about the 4x4 though is the cutting area, you really have to see it in person to do any justice. You can fit a ton of parts on this cutting area, especially if you nest them well.

Hey I recognize that screen. :D:D

Yea, you did a good job on it, I still need to make the z-axis zero plate, and install the laser, do you happen to have a combo one? I have not dug into mach to make my own yet, I think David may make a custom one for the CNC 4x4 Hybrid after going to the mach convention.

Joe

I do not know where that message came from, it has to be a simple setting in mach.

I leave 3/4" from edge of stock to the part so after cutting the 1/2" left is enough for the clamps to hold it.

Joe

Joe,
I used to get that message. There is some default information in Mach for motor drive pulleys that you have to eliminate. I don't remember where it is, and the machine is at home, but it is in the config menus under file.
Looking at the manual I think it is spindle speed and pulleys.

I noticed people are assuming the plans are still 75.00, but I did offer them at that price for one month which started Jan. 25th 2008, until Feb, 25th to start with. This was to kinda reward those who were waiting patiently for me to finish the plans. please ask for correct price now.

Joe

Joe,
I sent money for a hybrid kit this afternoon. Let me know if I got the right price or not! Can't wait to get started!

I finally ordered my new acme screws. Three 1/2 x 10 by 5 start. And I ordered the Dumpstercnc.com acme nuts too. Plus, I ordered a bunch of Boltdepo.com fasteners to assemble all the plastic components.

whats's the benifit of the 1/2-10 5 start from the 1/2-8 2 start is it better

can somebody post the max dimensions of the largest cnc cut piece of the new 4x4.

I'm building a jgro right now and would like to make sure that I can cut the new 4x4 pieces on it when I get ready to upgrade.

thanks!
-J

jvanick
I'm a JGRO guy and I recently finished cutting all the major pieces. No shifting was required. All pieces fit on my stock bed.
Here's my JGRO-to-Hybrid build link. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=402960&postcount=246

The Hybrid build starts at post # 246 and subsequent.

whats's the benifit of the 1/2-10 5 start from the 1/2-8 2 start is it better

The benefit is lower motor RPMs. It's funny that Steppers and electric motors are totally different regarding HP-vs-RPMs. Regular electric motors deliver more HP with more RPMs, but Stepper motors deliver more HP with lower RPMs. So using a 2-TPI acme screw lets the motor run slower.

Dave,

Glad to see you are coming along well with your 4x4 build.

Dear Joe, I sent the $75.00 by paypal to you back on March 4, 2008. I have not received any response from my emails to you, nor any plans, far as I can see on my email. Now, after the fact, I see that the price has been raised. Please respond or refund. Sincerely, bemfarmer.

Dear Joe, I sent the $75.00 by paypal to you back on March 4, 2008. I have not received any response from my emails to you, nor any plans, far as I can see on my email. Now, after the fact, I see that the price has been raised. Please respond or refund. Sincerely, bemfarmer.

did you check your spam folder? I have had that problem where I was waiting for a response from someone and it was sitting in my junk email folder..... Joe has been great at responding anytime I have sent him an email or question, i'm sure there is just some sort of misunderstanding.

Dear Joe, I sent the $75.00 by paypal to you back on March 4, 2008. I have not received any response from my emails to you, nor any plans, far as I can see on my email. Now, after the fact, I see that the price has been raised. Please respond or refund. Sincerely, bemfarmer.

I responded to your e-mail and also forwarded the original e-mail which I sent on March 4th at 6:37. here is the original e-mail with time and date stamp when it was sent:

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: joe cnc <joecnc2006@yahoo.com>
To: "Orchard_One@msn.com" <Orchard_One@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 6:37:03 PM
Subject: Joe's CNC 4x4 Hybrid Plans

Hope it gets to you, make sure your msn account does not block it, and if you have an alternative e-mail send it to me and i can forward the original e-mail to that one also.

BTW: the e-mail attachment was 2.7meg as long as your account will accept that size file, which most will up to 10meg.

I have sent every plan out the same day it has ordered and show no outstanding e-mails.

Joe

I got two belts and 4 pully's from SDP/SI they only had the 208 0.37 1/2" wide belts in stock so got two of those and made my own adjustment bar from elec. strut, used two bearing blocks, and i had a piece of acme 1/2-10 rod, and also had some extra dumpster clamps to go on each side of bearings.
forum.
Only angle i could get right now, and closeup of bearing area.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I was talking to the guys at the Mach forum. They suggested using the slave function in Mach rather than a timing belt. Since your the expert on your instrument I have to ask if there is any reason you didn't use this option. Why is the timing belt a better way to go? One of the responders to my inquiry has a 20 ft bed and slaves out the second motor with excellent results. One guy has 3 motors all slaved on his plasma torch and runs 1700IPM rapids.

Steven

Hi Joe,

I was talking to the guys at the Mach forum. They suggested using the slave function in Mach rather than a timing belt. Since your the expert on your instrument I have to ask if there is any reason you didn't use this option. Why is the timing belt a better way to go? One of the responders to my inquiry has a 20 ft bed and slaves out the second motor with excellent results. One guy has 3 motors all slaved on his plasma torch and runs 1700IPM rapids.

Steven

The motors are slaved in mach3 the Y and A axis, the belt is only used as a safety net in case your motors loose steps, your gantry does not rack and get out of square and is an easy recovery.

Joe

Not wishing to stick my nose in too far but having had experience with Mach3's slaving function I would forgo the belt on Joe's design.

Experience tells me it will work fine without it.

Just my opinion, Greg :)

I'm not Joe, but the steppers are slaved for the Y axis. The belt is just a "in case" measure that may not be an issue.

Hi Joe, re Hybrid CNC plans, would you please re-send them. I cannot find any email of them, not even in junk folder. Sincerely, Brian, orchard_one@msn.com. Thats with an underline mark, not a dash. Thank You. I can get email at bemfarmer@yahoo.com.

Hi Joe, re Hybrid CNC plans, would you please re-send them. I cannot find any email of them, not even in junk folder. Sincerely, Brian, orchard_one@msn.com. Thats with an underline mark, not a dash. Thank You. I can get email at bemfarmer@yahoo.com.


sent it earlier today and again right now and also the yahoo address...

Joe

Hi Joe. Successfully received the plans @Yahoo. They look terrific. (Still am not getting any email from you at MSN--don't know why not) Thank You very much. Sincerely, bemfarmer

Bem, maybe check your junk folder? MSN might treat unknown attachments as spam.

Thankyou bp092. There just are not any messages from joe on my msn email. I'm getting others from cnczone, paypal, microsoft, and yahoo though. I wonder if its because I'm over at the farm, with fast radio internet, with Hotmail, while at home I have Qwest Choice DSL with MSN Premium internet service? Anyway, the Yahoo email site worked fine.

Well, my 4x4 is basically done. Just a few more bells and whistles to add. I cut for about 2 hours after I leveled the table and I am nothing but please with the performance.

Here's a short clip of it leveling the table at 200 IPM taking about 1/32" off.

http://www.spencerdomains.com/rc_pics/4x4CNC.wmv

Great job on the machine, looks like it is moving pretty smooth, It is exciting to see the machines start to be finished and in such a short time frame.

the longest i have run mine is 4 hours straight, and some i have run it all day with 30min breaks. this is getting use to the machine and trusting it 100%.

To be honest I did not even surface my bed, it was so close to being perfect from the start, that I just started cutting with it, I will probably surface it later on. I also use 1/4" spoil board now and clamp it down with the stock material.

Joe

Did anybody make a conversion to metric ? (Use stuff available in Europe)
I do not undestand how works the flange bearing. Is the lead screw just tensioned between those two bearings to remove the axial play? What about the Z-axis there is just one bearing? Are those bearing free of axial play ?
What is the price for plans for those living in Europe (Conversion needed)?

the plans are in decimal form so a conversion would not be hard, I really can not do them because i do not live there and do not know what all I would need to converted.

Joe

Did anybody make a conversion to metric ? (Use stuff available in Europe)
I do not undestand how works the flange bearing. Is the lead screw just tensioned between those two bearings to remove the axial play? What about the Z-axis there is just one bearing? Are those bearing free of axial play ?
What is the price for plans for those living in Europe (Conversion needed)?

The flange bearings are about 1-1/4" deep which help reduce and load/movement, and have two setscrews which hold onto the leadscrews, with these two setscrews, I have not had any problem with the single bearing on the z-axis.

Joe

Well after a long discussion and still more research to do, I have been really thinking how rock solid is a Cable system on a cnc machine?

I know wyldesyde007 (which has brought us a nice example of his http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51485 ) drives his gantry from the center so I'm sure this helps his machine quite a bit, I also know and remember when board drafting the parallel bar would get skewed when you applied force to one side opposite the other.

And if you study the cable system enough there really is nothing to lock the gantry side to the cables they the cable is free to move along the pulley's.

I am although convinced that this cable system helps tremendously with wyldesyde007's machine, and he has done an excellent job in executing it in his application but it may not be the best solution for everyones racking situation.

I wonder if you were to lock the gantry on one side and start the machine and apply motor torque while having a gage of some sort on the other side to measure the actual skew/rack in the gantry (the wider the gantry the greater the skew) and (also depends on your systems motor torque as to your results which will differ from machine to machine). I am curious as to the results because last night on my 4x4 machine I did test this out with the my belt system only to see if it is worth switching to an under the table type system.


Here is my testing I did last night on the present Belt system and the process i did:

I clamped the Y-Axis carriage to the front flange bearing housing as mentioned above, the took a picture of the pulley on the opposite side, then pulled on the belt in to make the gantry move as much as possible then took another picture.

I brought the pictures into autocad side by side, and using the setscrew I installed and the lettering on the motor I has some reference marks to go by, and drawing a line from the center of the pulley to a reference point on the setscrew and seeing where it lined up with the lettering allowed me to copy one line from one picture to the other and then measure the maximum angle.

Results:
the angle in Autcad was 3.75° out of a full circle of 360° which gives me a multiplying factor of 0.0104 of a circle. Now knowing one revolution of the leadscrew will move the gantry 0.50" I take 0.0104 x 0.50" = 0.0052" which is the maximum the belt will allow the gantry to move and get out of square.

I have attached the pictures and the autocad angular measurement.

Joe

Thats pretty awsome tolerances! will that stay consistant though as the belt stretches? just as with timing belts in cars and other machines the tension on it causes the teeth of the belt to get farther apart. what setup did you go with to dial out that variance?

Joe,
I have seen several versions of the cable system. I wonder if using the version where the cable is attached to one side of the gantry, routed to the end of the table, across the table, to the opposite end, around a pulley, and back to the opposite corner of the gantry; would work. You do the same with a second cable on opposite sides of the gantry. I hope this makes sense. I probably need to draw it so all can see.
You must have both cables to make it work. Racking would stretch one cable.

Thats a good thought BobF but whether the pulleys were attached to the gantry or the table you still get the effect that joe is describing, if you apply enough force you can cause the gantry to rack; although on my machine it takes 30lbs of force to do it!

Thats a good thought BobF but whether the pulleys were attached to the gantry or the table you still get the effect that joe is describing, if you apply enough force you can cause the gantry to rack; although on my machine it takes 30lbs of force to do it!

yes correct the cable has to slip somewhere and it is at the pulley's no matter where thay are placed, However with 30lbs of force before it racks may be more than that would make your second motor to stall if that is the case or happens.

Joe

Here is a crude picture to show the cable routing I am talking about. It would need some careful routing to make sure that as you move the gantry the same amount of cable is given on one side as is taken on the other. The idea is that racking in either direction would have to stretch the blue cable or the red. You would want equal tension on the 2 cables.

Thats a good thought BobF but whether the pulleys were attached to the gantry or the table you still get the effect that joe is describing, if you apply enough force you can cause the gantry to rack; although on my machine it takes 30lbs of force to do it!

Look at the picture I posted. The cables are attached to the gantry and the pulleys to the table. Rack in either direction tends to stretch one cable or the other.

Here is a crude picture to show the cable routing I am talking about. It would need some careful routing to make sure that as you move the gantry the same amount of cable is given on one side as is taken on the other. The idea is that racking in either direction would have to stretch the blue cable or the red. You would want equal tension on the 2 cables.

your two bottom cables coming from gantry have to be inline with the pulleys like your upper two or you will not get even tension distribution when the gantry moves to that side and away.

I would look at the other "Make your Gantry Rocksolid" I posted the other alternative picture in there.

Joe

your two bottom cables coming from gantry have to be inline with the pulleys like your upper two or you will not get even tension distribution when the gantry moves to that side and away.

I would look at the other "Make your Gantry Rocksolid" I posted the other alternative picture in there.

Joe

You are correct. I drew the picture out of line to get the routing across.
I will go look at that, I have not followed that thread lately.

Dual screws I would say is the best way to stay square but you have to keep them in sync and it's going to cost you a bit more depending on what screw system you chose because you have to duplicate it to be accurate. I have been looking into alternates that keep things parallel without having to be sync'd

I was talking to Brian earlier and he suggested i look at the machine maintenance just to see how much time is on the machine so far, did not know i have run it that much, just today was 8.86 hrs... wow

And look at those travel distances.... :) The machine is running really well, I am Very Very happy with it.

Joe

Wow Joe you have really racked up some miles on that baby.

Jason

Hi Joe, Iam new to this CNC world as iam a psychiatrist, I need a cnc that is so accurate and can engrave small wood pieces in very fine details. Could u please advice about the best plan that i can do and where can i purchase or get this plan
Thanks
Haithm

I would recommend you define small wood pieces and fine details. Every has a different representation of small :).

Haitham, that's a very very broad question for a technology that can do a broad array tasks. CNC devices can cut custom cabinet doors with great sweeping carvings and lattice work, but other machines can create intricately detailed sub-millimeter wide inlay work. Joe's 4x4 might not be the best choice for, say, cutting traces on circuit boards, but a CNC micromill isn't particularly suited to cutting the entrance sign to a housing community.

Nevertheless, you'll eventually find an answer here in CNCzone.

Cheers, jim

Last year I built Joes 2006 model. I completed it just prior to Christmas. I engraved the tags for presents for my family. They were the size of traditional tags, about 1" x 2.5" and had at least 2 lines of text. The text line weight was similar to a pencil or ball point pen. To me this is small wood pieces with finely engraved text, your idea may not be the same.

Hi all. Iam sorry if my previous question was not clear. the wood carving i mean is for eaxmple a lion with details that measure 4x4cm. i dont know if this is applicable or not but if please advice about plans.
Thanls

Does anyone know the actual cut depth of the Z axis? I seemed to have missed it in the forum... Thanks

Does anyone know the actual cut depth of the Z axis? I seemed to have missed it in the forum... Thanks

Mine has 4.5" from bottom of carriage to the top of the two 3/4" MDF for the bed. You can gain another 2" if you extend the Y-Axis garriages upward 2", but you could also introduce some flex into the Z-Axis.

Joe

Hi all. Iam sorry if my previous question was not clear. the wood carving i mean is for eaxmple a lion with details that measure 4x4cm. i dont know if this is applicable or not but if please advice about plans.
Thanls

Haitham, you keep sending a Profile Visitor message, and i can not respond to those, send me e-mail or a private message instead please.

Joe

Joe, if someone was willing to spend a bit more, what would you upgrade first?

MDF gantry? Add some linear bearings?

Or do you feel that is a slippery slope and one would need to design a beefier machine from the ground up?

Joe, if someone was willing to spend a bit more, what would you upgrade first?

MDF gantry? Add some linear bearings?

Or do you feel that is a slippery slope and one would need to design a beefier machine from the ground up?

Possibly change out the Uni-Strut with 80/20. We have one being built like that now. (only because he already had the 80/20) and the cutting width just a little smaller than 48" but can lay the full sheet down on bed.

Joe

Well I thought that everyone might like to see some pictures of some of the builds going on, I'm sure as soon as people get their machines finished you will be seeing some more videos and pictures of it in action.

Here are some pictures, Hope you enjoy them and hope people do not mind i posed their work. 1st up is mine of course which you have seen.

Joe

Really nice looking machine Joe. I especially like the V Bearings they make for a very clean look. And the use of U channel is such a good idea.

Thanks for sharing your creative and innovative work.

Hager

:rainfro:

Really nice looking machine Joe. I especially like the V Bearings they make for a very clean look. And the use of U channel is such a good idea.

Thanks for sharing your creative and innovative work.

Hager

:rainfro:

Thanks, Mr.Chips

Well the pictures posted are 5 different machines, and credit does go to them also for a great accomplishment. Some of them have told me there is no way they would have even considered building a larger machine, but after seeing mine and that I would offer plans that show them in detail how to build it they decided to jump in and build it, and as you see have done a great job, not to mention the personal gratification. I'm sure there are some who can just look at the machine and build it, but i did make the plans to help eliminate headaches and mistakes which we all have done (I am at the top of the list, I do not want to tell you how much this machine cost me in the end with 3 different designs until I had this final one) LOL

Joe

Joe, if someone was willing to spend a bit more, what would you upgrade first?

MDF gantry? Add some linear bearings?

Or do you feel that is a slippery slope and one would need to design a beefier machine from the ground up?

Morris,
Good question. I'm building one too, and I'm stalled for no good reason but life's happenings. I'm right at the point of mounting my motors and acme screws.

Anyway, your suggestion about the linear bearings is something I've been pondering. Yes it would be a good upgrade and easy to do. But, I'm not going down that road, because of the additional cost and because I'm already down this road and the scenery is looking good.

It's probably premature to be thinking about improving such a new design. I'm really happy with my build so far - the plans are great, it went together easy, it's inexpensive for what you get and I think it is going to be great for what I want to use it for. I imagine as users run the machine more there will be all sorts of things that will pop up that can be improved, but it seems like the design is really well thought out at this point. It's a great compromise between cost, ease of building, speed, etc. Joe has the most time on the machine and it sounds like his is running great after miles of cutting.

Here's a video of some of the first cuts on my new machine: YouTube - Ernie's Joe 4x4 CNC Mill

Ernie,

Some nice cutting pictures. Are you using a spindle or router, it sounds almost too quiet to be a router.

Also your plastic dust shoe was so clear and free of dust, how long does it stay that way, I really like to see the cutter actually cutting.

Thanks
Hager

Mr. Chips you changed your avatar :)

I'm going to change my dust collection to the same oval shape, this will work better than my rectangle one I have now.

Ernie did use the plans and templates in them to cut the pieces with hand router and tablesaw, he had no cnc machine.

Its cool to see the video of the machine cutting its own replacement parts, he said the Z-Axis was a little loose, so he now is using the machine to cut the actual parts for the new Z-Axis carriage.

Joe

Hager-

I'm using a Hitachi M 12VC 2.25HP router. It's been running really smooth so far. The dust collector shoe stays clean by itself. I think the combination of the rounded ends and the 2 HP vacuum does a really good job of keeping the chips flying direct from the cut to the hose. The chips never get a chance to stick to the plexiglass plate. The rounded ends keep the skirt a little more rigid so it doesn't collapse inward as easily as the rectangular designs. Also, the rounded ends may help make collisions with fixtures less dramatic. Not that I've done that yet...

Ernie

Joe,

I was wondering about the use of Acme shaft bearings with set screws.
Should there be a concern in using these bearings with set screws, it seems that the the shaft hole would be a little over size.
In tightening the set screws wouldn't it make the shaft a little off center? And since it is fairly close to the stepper motor would that slight offcenter transfer to the stepper, or does the coupling absorb the off center issue?

Thanks

Chips,
These particular bearing have a very tight/close tolerance. The mismatch after the setscrew is only .0005 inches. That's my estimation.
Dave

Chips,
These particular bearing have a very tight/close tolerance. The mismatch after the setscrew is only .0005 inches. That's my estimation.
Dave

If that much, it is very tight indeed. and does not cause any problems.

Joe

I was talking to Brian earlier and he suggested i look at the machine maintenance just to see how much time is on the machine so far, did not know i have run it that much, just today was 8.86 hrs... wow

And look at those travel distances.... :) The machine is running really well, I am Very Very happy with it.

Joe I didn't know that was in there.... :beer:

thought you may want to see some progress of new machines some are working on now, here are a some pictures.

You can see the one Bob is building (Black and Red theme), he used the plans for the dimension of the Base and manufactured it himself out of steel, the top portion of the machine is per plans, this is an example of how people are using the plans and adapting them to their needs or wants. I made the plans as a base machine, and can be added to or modified slightly, as long as the basic machine is used it will work well IMO.

I am really enjoying seeing the machines come together and maybe post a gallery of what people have done with it soon. and maybe an overall picture of all the machine build.

Joe

"You can see the one Bob is building (Black and Red theme), he used the plans for the dimension of the Base and manufactured it himself out of steel"

A really sturdy frame and cross bracing and he made it so it would be taken apart by having some logicially placed bolts and nuts, you don't always see this with welded frames. A really good idea if you ever plan to haul it somewhere.

Thanks for posting pictures Joe.

Well Bob almost finished his machine, got to a point to test it, he need a dist skirt, side splash guards and some other personal touches, i really like the way his machine came out, Very impressive.

also is a test file in 3d he did.

YouTube - DIY CNC cutting a part....

Hope these guys don't mind me posting their work.

Joe

Has anyone had any problems getting a quote out of superior bearings? I sent them a few requests for a quote for 16 v-guides on my company email and never heard a peep out of them. Or is there a distributor somewhere I should be going through?

Steven

Try calling them, ask for Rick.

Has anyone used these guys for ACME threaded rod? GREEN BAY MFG CO

They have 1/2-5 double start for $7.50 a foot, which, IIRC is less than McMaster-Carr. And since I an building to a different spec than in the plans (84 inch LOA instead of the 72 inch as per the prints), so I need 7ft lead screws. And they sell by the foot as opposed to Nook who sells in either 6 or 12 ft lengths.

My Joe 2006 was also lenghten'd out to this length using couplers and 1/2-13 rod to extend the lead screw so I could get the full 6 ft travel, and those damn couplers keep letting go every few months (which is what I was just tightening a few minutes ago).

Also going to be building another "baby Joe" for my girlfriend with a total length of 40 inches and a cutting table of about 20 in X 12 in.

Steven

Hey Bob (RE: Post 750),

How are those wheels working out for you? I was thinking on the same lines, but have always been worried that the machine may try to walk around to much, even with locking casters.

Steven

Yep.

Didn't take long.

Ordered my plans.

I'm hooked.

Stay tuned for build pics.

Woo hoo!:banana:

Joe,

I have decided to upgrade the X and Y axis bearings on my fixed gantry machine, and will use flange bearings as you have on your 4X4 Hybrid.

In the drawing below I show the two flange bearings in use and was wondering if I tighten both the A and B bearing collars that there might be a problem with expansion as the Axis screw heat up.

My thought is to tighten the “A” bearing collar and just let the shaft float in the “B” bearing.

What is your take on this Joe?

Thanks

Joe,

I have decided to upgrade the X and Y axis bearings on my fixed gantry machine, and will use flange bearings as you have on your 4X4 Hybrid.

In the drawing below I show the two flange bearings in use and was wondering if I tighten both the A and B bearing collars that there might be a problem with expansion as the Axis screw heat up.

My thought is to tighten the “A” bearing collar and just let the shaft float in the “B” bearing.

What is your take on this Joe?

Thanks

you will want to tighten both flange bearings up, this is actually a mod to the machine Ernie has done on his, in which he placed two bearings about 6" apart. This allowed the machine to travel at double the speed with out allowing the lead screw to whip. The lead screw inside the flange bearing has no play at all. In fact allot of us honed out the bearings or lathed down the lead screws to fit.

Joe

The thermal coefficient of expansion of steel is 11x10-6 in/degree at 20 degrees C. So if your screw is 60 inches long and the temperature changes 30 degrees C the expansion will be: 11x10-6 * 60 inches * 30 = 0.0198 inches. I suppose that could cause some minor buckling of the screw. Of course the frame the screw is attached to will also expand so it wouldn't be that bad.

It wouldn't hurt to leave flange B floating. The important thing is to have flange A take up the thrust forces along the length of the screw so the bearings of the motor don't wear out.

-Ernie

I understood the coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is 0.00000645in/in/deg so x 60 x 30 = maximum expansion of 0.01161 inch.

But, I would think the Tempered steel of the Flange would not Allow the Steel Lead screw to expand.

joe

More confusion with numbers. My value is inches/degree celsius yours may be inches/degree farenheight. Also there is a wide range depending on carbon content, alloy, etc. Our European friends are probably laughing at us for using non metric values....

On thinking about it the more important number is the difference between the bed and the screw. For a Joe2006 the bed is MDF and I couldn't find a number for the coefficient of expansion for it. MDF is greatly affected by humidity changes however. For the Hybrid, the bed is the aluminum extrusion and aluminum has about twice the expansion of steel. HDPE is even worse.

If you set up your machine on a cold morning and tighten down the set screws of the flanges on both ends of the screw you might see the screw buckling a little on that 100 degree day. If you leave the set screws out on flange B the screw will float in the length direction and not buckle.

YMMV.

Ernie

you will want to tighten both flange bearings up, this is actually a mod to the machine Ernie has done on his, in which he placed two bearings about 6" apart. This allowed the machine to travel at double the speed with out allowing the lead screw to whip. The lead screw inside the flange bearing has no play at all. In fact allot of us honed out the bearings or lathed down the lead screws to fit.

Joe

Two bearings 6” apart, I’m guessing two bearings just on the motor end as shown below. Or did he put two bearings on both ends?

Thats good to hear about honing the bearings, I was afraid of them being loose, hey tight is much better.

My machine is a fixed gantry MDF totally painted in oil base paint, so I don’t think moisture is a problem, especially in Tucson AZ where the humidity is 7% a lot of the time.

Mr. Chips-

When the flange bearings are properly broken in and greased up, they have 2 degrees of freedom (besides rotation). By adding a second bearing at the same end of the screw the degrees of freedom are reduced by 2 providing a fixed support. You can run a shaft with fixed supported ends about twice as fast as one with simple supports before you reach critical speed whiplash. So I added a 2nd bearing on the end opposite the motor. On the motor end I changed the lovejoy out for an ACME coupler ( http://www.dumpstercnc.com/acme_couplers.html ) . That way the motor and bearing on that end provide a fixed support.

Here's a video showing before adding the additional flange and coupler and after- YouTube - Shaft Critical Speed Demonstration

-Ernie

Thanks Ernie,

I see, two bearings on the end opposite the motor. That is a good video showing exactly the problem and solution.

Because I am using a fixed gantry, and my shaft lengths are only 41" and 31", I haven't seen any whipping in mine yet, but then I haven't been running at 300 IPM.

Hmmm I wonder what cute remark your Wife? was making. He He My wife doesn't understand, I just tell her it's a Guy thing and she shakes her head.

Regards

Hager

Well after nearly a four month wait, I have finally gotten the last parts needed to construct my 4x4 Hybrid. I had saved up about $3000 before the beginning of the year but then spent a good portion of that money during the time we were waiting for the plans... So it took me a while to gather the funds for the rest of the machine.

This week they announced that the local Home Depot store would close. 10-30% off everything. I got the Super strut for $11.18 each instead of $16.99!

Bill

Thanks Ernie,

I see, two bearings on the end opposite the motor.

Hager

Hager, where did u see the two bearings???...In video i can't see the location..

Hager, where did u see the two bearings???...In video i can't see the location..

Because I didn't want to spring for a new Acme shaft I mounted the two bearings inside my gantry. Because my Y axis rails were not as wide as the gantry I didnt loose any cutting width mounting like this.

I aligned the Y axis acme shaft yesterday and it is out less than 0.001" my homemade alignment fixture worked. See photo.

Hager

Mr.chips my question was How ERNIE reslove the whip problem??

I think he added two bearing blocks at both the ends additionaly??

Mr.chips my question was How ERNIE reslove the whip problem??

I think he added two bearing blocks at both the ends additionaly??

Sorry,
Yes that was my understanding.

Hager no need to sorry ...You are among some of the persons helping others without any reward..... (I m feeling guilty for ur that SORRY:()
It is very amazing that you are making machine with very small working area...Do u have any other bigger CNC machinei.e. router with large working area...By the way, why u are converting to flanged bearing block???

Hager no need to sorry ...You are among some of the persons helping others without any reward..... (I m feeling guilty for ur that SORRY:()
It is very amazing that you are making machine with very small working area...Do u have any other bigger CNC machinei.e. router with large working area...By the way, why u are converting to flanged bearing block???

No, this is the only machine I have, nothing larger yet. It has a work are of about 21” X 28”. This size was dictated by the things I found that were very inexpensive at the time I started construction. Since I built this machine I have collected some really nice linear bearings and ball screws, so like many others I’ll use this fixed gantry machine to make my movable gantry one. This machine is very rigid, the sides are two layers of ¾” MDF and the gantry bridge is also two layers of ¾” MDF, and they are mortised into one layer of the side pieces.

I am switching to flange bearings because they are so easy to work with, don’t have to do any lathe work to turn down the acme screws to fit bearing bores, or fuss with exact bearing location on the shaft, just put the shaft in, slide the bearings to where I need then and tighten up the set screws.
Before I bought the bearings I was concerned about a lot of slop between the bearing bore and acme rod, as it turned out I had to hone out the bearing bore to get it to fit on the shaft, so I think it will be fine.
Now my concern is how much end play there will be within the bearings themselves, especially since they are a simple ball and not designed for zero lateral movement. Before I was using a skate bearing just on the other end from the motor and relying on the stepper motor bearing to support that end, not really the best idea. So now I have both ends supported, so there isn’t any stress on the stepper bearings.

Here's another by swaggs21, He is Getting to the point of finishing the machine.

Joe

Bob's Finished machine, A real good looking machine i have to admit, Thats how it usually goes, others machines start to look better than my original machine. Makes me jealous.. LOL

Joe

Does anyone have an idea of how much accuracy I could expect from the angle iron guide rails. I'm not very familiar with the manufacturing process of angle iron.

I found the angle iron to be a sore spot in my build. My first purchase was of sub quality steel. I had to repeat the purchase taking the best specimens of the bunch. If you're cutting wood and plastic as I am, I think you will see more errors in your machine due to the long spans. The 4x4 span using the 8020 aluminum extrusion is awesome.

My 4x4 is running great, and lots stiffer then my MDF JGRO gas pipe design. I'm really enjoying the extra speed I can push because of the stiffer design.

Again, the steel angle rails have to be examined and culled during purchase and build. Be selective, throw some of them back. I think you be happy with the results.

The dirty secret is that the angle iron by itself is probably not a suitable guide, but couple it with the precision aluminum extrusion and it becomes quite good. My angle iron had visible warps, but when I screwed it down to the aluminum it straightened right out. You do have to use some care to drill the screw holes precisely to get good results. Dave is right though, the angle iron quality can vary a lot. You definitely want to cull through the pile and get the best stuff.

The good thing about the angle is its allot cheaper to use, and easy to replace on the machine if you ever need to. I have many hours (312 hrs) on mine already and still working good.

Joe

Here are a couple more pics now with everything mechanically finished, hoping to add motors and electronics this weekend.

I still need to wrap the base and finish the drawers and such, but I don't think the machine will mind me waiting till after it is cutting to make it pretty :D

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59566&stc=1&d=1210778451

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59567&stc=1&d=1210778451

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59568&stc=1&d=1210778451

Its looking really good now. :)

Joe

Has anyone had any problems getting a quote out of superior bearings? I sent them a few requests for a quote for 16 v-guides ...
Steven

Are these the same as the v-groove wheels from IMService here:
http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=107

If so, how do the prices compare?

Gary

Pretty much the same manufacture just different distributors, prices are cheaper at superior.. just call Rick there don't bother emailing. He will answer right away. There's a paypal link setup for the group/bulk buy at 16 bearings and the proper bushings if needed if you want it.. I have it stickied at our 4x4 hybrid user forum if you're a member there.

Here is brian surfacing the table, final stage of machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on2L_4qQHiM

Joe

Here is Bertram's machine almost finished. We were teasing him about the purple color (after his build it actually looks pretty good). So he made a video for us. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF5zvqLwWXA&hl

Joe

Has anyone designed an A axis that mounts under the 4X4 Hybrid table? This would allow for routing on large diameter work pieces. The A axis would have to be height adjustable for varying diameter pieces. I guess that you would also have to have a section of the table removable to allow access to the A axis.

goldner, So far, nobody has done the A axis yet. I'm thinking about it, but I don't see a clear path to the end just yet. I'm having too much fun cut flat stuff right now.

Has anyone designed an A axis that mounts under the 4X4 Hybrid table? This would allow for routing on large diameter work pieces. The A axis would have to be height adjustable for varying diameter pieces. I guess that you would also have to have a section of the table removable to allow access to the A axis.

I have an Idea how to implement one, I just don't have the 4-axis hardware just yet to fully design it. Also Dust collection is another issue i have not seen on any 4th axis machine yet, or if it is even needed.

Joe

I'm thinking about using a cheap Harbor Freight wood lathe. For $99 you can get a 14"X40" lathe. My idea is to make the 4X4 MDF table only 36" long. A 12" table section can be made that can be added when not using the A axis. The lathe would be mounted at the end of the Y axis and below the table. The mounting would have multiple vertical holes for the mounting bolts so that the height could be adjusted. The AC motor on the lathe would be changed out for a stepper. This would allow the lathe to be used as an indexer.

Possibly, a way could be found to be able to use either the AC motor or the stepper. This would allow the lathe to be used as an indexer where the gcode controls the A axis or as a lathe where the spindle is constantly running.

Joe, I would be interested in hearing your ideas.

Possibly, a way could be found to be able to use either the AC motor or the stepper. This would allow the lathe to be used as an indexer where the gcode controls the A axis or as a lathe where the spindle is constantly running.


You can do both with a stepper. Use two profiles in Mach3, with one using the stepper as a spindle, and the other as an A axis.

My idea would involve just a portable 4th axis so to speak, You would have 4 mounting holes in the bed, which a 4th axis would bolt to it when needed since the bed is already parallel to the X-Axis on this machine. And with the extra holes in the Z-Axis slide i can mount some brackets, which will come out and forward on the Sides of the existing router, which i can then attach a horizontal cutting tool, maybe a trim router or another Hitachi router to that (again would be attached to those brackets with additional 4 mounting holes on the side brackets. and when used the Y-Axis on the machine would be used as the Z-Axis.

Hope this makes sense Like all my designs, I have it in my head just not on paper yet, or design as i build.

Joe

Joe,
It makes perfect sense. I like the idea. I hope to see some solid models of your idea sometime. Regarding the 4th axis hardware, any idea which you like the best?

Rgoldner's idea is interesting too.
Dave

Here's a 4th axis kit for you to consider.
http://www.sherline.com/8730pg.htm
It's my favorite so far.

I'm taking notes, all for a fourth axis. I have ideas as well just haven't really looked into the hardware for it yet. I was thinking of doing it at the end of the table and mounting it farther down so you could really take advantage of the z axis travel allowing you to do larger turnings. I would say you wouldn't need anything more than 5-6 in diam, most of the time less than 4". Just think, fluted turnings on a joes 4x4, then being able to switch over to the sheet offset and cut the cabinet parts after without making any major switches or having two machines. It's a thought no?

ger21,

I have helped a friend convert a Legacy ornamental mill from manual to CNC. If your not familiar with the Legacy, it's basically an 8' (they offer different lengths) by 14" router with a fourth axis in the long dimension under the table. The table is removable. This machine is used to make fancy turnings like hollow spirals, barley twists, etc. We did use a stepper on the A axis. We use Mach3 to use the A axis as either a lathe or an indexer. However, when used as a lathe (A axis in spindle mode) the maximum RPM is rather low. That's why I was considering an AC motor and a stepper for the fourth axis.

However, when used as a lathe (A axis in spindle mode) the maximum RPM is rather low. That's why I was considering an AC motor and a stepper for the fourth axis.

You could use a servo to get more speed and still function both ways. But if you really need high speeds, then you're probably better off as you say.

Well, Here is another one, Hope ya'll like videos of machines running as much as I do.

Jim is just about finished with his machine, Instead of using the Uni-strut, he used 80/20 that he had on hand already for the base and also the bed support, the rest of the machine is pretty much as plans call for, the machine came out well, and looks pretty profesional looking, he did a great job on it.


YouTube - 4X4 Router



Joe

Here is a video of my machine running. So far it has been solid as a rock.

I have been able to cut hardwoods accurately at 150ipm, as shown in this video.

Great Machine Joe!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHpDMXIXJEs

I don't know how to embed videos, tried the embed tag but that didn't work.

I'm thinking about using a cheap Harbor Freight wood lathe. For $99 you can get a 14"X40" lathe. My idea is to make the 4X4 MDF table only 36" long. A 12" table section can be made that can be added when not using the A axis. The lathe would be mounted at the end of the Y axis and below the table. The mounting would have multiple vertical holes for the mounting bolts so that the height could be adjusted. The AC motor on the lathe would be changed out for a stepper. This would allow the lathe to be used as an indexer.

Possibly, a way could be found to be able to use either the AC motor or the stepper. This would allow the lathe to be used as an indexer where the gcode controls the A axis or as a lathe where the spindle is constantly running.

Joe, I would be interested in hearing your ideas.

I purchased one of those HF lathes with the idea of using it as a fourth axis. Although I think it would be easy to convert to stepper power, mine does not have a Morse taper in the headstock. It has a threaded shaft instead. It uses a spur center that threads to this. If you only turn in one direction it might not be an issue but if your program requires the 4th axis to reverse direction you could begin to unscrew the spur. I think it would be better to have a headstock with the MT since you can use any standard tooling with it and reversing rotation would be no problem.

Mike

Well I finally found some good vinyl to use for my dust skirt, comes in 8" wide roles, I can get allot more if anyone wants me to get it for them.

Using the Dust collection it does not suck up into the hose as much as the carpet runner does. Here is a video of it in action and when lowered showing how much flex it has when dust collector is on and when raised it goes back out.

It is held on with Velcro for ease of removal.


Joe

YouTube - New Dust Collection skirt

as long as its not too much, i would like to try some of it.
i dont know how good the velcro would be after the wood dust got to it.
dan

hey there
could someone tell me what is the largest MDF/HDPE part? wondering if it can be made with a 18"x12" machine
Thanks

hey there
could someone tell me what is the largest MDF/HDPE part? wondering if it can be made with a 18"x12" machine
Thanks

The Y-Axis carriage is 20" long, you can still make them, just split your file in half, here is a sample of how to do it.

YouTube - 58&quot; part on a 15&quot; CNC router.



Joe

Hi Joe
Thanks for the reply and video,
i was in fact meaning the 4x4 machine, the side of the main carriage look like they are larger than 12x18?
thanks

i was in fact meaning the 4x4 machine, the side of the main carriage look like they are larger than 12x18?
thanks


Yes i know they are 20" long.

Joe

cool thanks Joe, i was just getting confused!!

Hey guys, what's the problem? I thought by now we would be having new videos uploaded every day. There were people three months ago that were about through with their machines and were going to upload some videos. Are you not taking any videos, just not sharing them or not using your 4x4's? I'm anxious to see some of the machines and improvements that have been made. Everybody loves to watch the videos. I'm buying a piece here and there and hopefully I can get started on my build fairly soon.

thanks,
Doug

Hey guys, what's the problem? I thought by now we would be having new videos uploaded every day. There were people three months ago that were about through with their machines and were going to upload some videos. Are you not taking any videos, just not sharing them or not using your 4x4's? I'm anxious to see some of the machines and improvements that have been made. Everybody loves to watch the videos. I'm buying a piece here and there and hopefully I can get started on my build fairly soon.

thanks,
Doug

Hi Doug,

As someone making a smaller version of the 4x4 I keep a close eye on the forum and can let you know there are very few videos taken on it and most if not all of them are posted here. There are quite a few mods been made by various people in their builds but most are very subtle that you probably wouldn't notice them unless they were pointed out to you. The homemade rail grinder I designed for my 4x4 has already been posted on the Zone for others to use on machines of their choice. Also the V bearing shown in the last photo are homemade and are currently undergoing testing on my Z axis to see how they holdup before I continue with the rest of my build.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=463492&postcount=9


Hope you start your build soon.

Cheers
Peter

Well I finally found some good vinyl to use for my dust skirt, comes in 8" wide roles, I can get allot more if anyone wants me to get it for them.

Using the Dust collection it does not suck up into the hose as much as the carpet runner does. Here is a video of it in action and when lowered showing how much flex it has when dust collector is on and when raised it goes back out.

It is held on with Velcro for ease of removal.


Joe

YouTube - New Dust Collection skirt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H66BDRwKhd8)


I'd be interested in some Joe. I'm cutting lots of balsa and plywood and the dust is horrible with the carpet runner. It just gets sucked up and doesn't stop hardly any of the dust. PM me with the cost of 2-3ft and I'll paypal you the $.

James

Hey guys, what's the problem? I thought by now we would be having new videos uploaded every day. There were people three months ago that were about through with their machines and were going to upload some videos. Are you not taking any videos, just not sharing them or not using your 4x4's? I'm anxious to see some of the machines and improvements that have been made. Everybody loves to watch the videos. I'm buying a piece here and there and hopefully I can get started on my build fairly soon.

thanks,
Doug

Too busy working and cutting to get video :)

I'm extremely happy with mine. I've been cutting mostly models with mine. I run my 2006 and 4x4 at the same time and it really cuts down on the amount of cutting time. Just wish I could make my 2006 as fast as my 4x4...

Hi Joe. I PayPaled you payment for the Hybrid 4X4 plans earlier today. Please send them ASAP as I can't wait to get started. Also please send me the "secret" forum info.

Thanks!

Hi Joe. I PayPaled you payment for the Hybrid 4X4 plans earlier today. Please send them ASAP as I can't wait to get started. Also please send me the "secret" forum info.

Thanks!

Sent you the plans, Not really a secret forum, its my support forum to help people with build, its all CNC 4x4 Hybrid related. I sent all the info.

Joe

Would you please activate my registration?

Thanks!

Hi Joe,
It seems that I can no longer access your site. Has it moved? Would you please check my registration when you get a moment.

Many Thanks,

Here is another scaled down version to a 2x4.

He can easily expand it later if desired.

Joe

Joe I sent you a couple of emails on getting some of the vinyl... think they maybe ending up in your junk folder. Get you ping me with some cost information on the skirt vinyl.

i sent you an email asking how i go about ordering a 4x4 kit. also wanted to know what all comes in the kit. other than steppers and electronics what eles do i need to build it

That 2x4 downscale sealed the deal for me. I don't have the space for a 4x4 machine, and I was juuuuust about to buy the original Joe2006 kit when a local CNCzoner talked me into this version.

Now begins the oh boy oh boy oh boy phase. Ebay had the 8020 in stock, I know to call Rick at superior bearings for my V-groove, the next stop on this clickfest will be boltdepot. Did anyone successfully set up a Joe's Hybrid kit-specific package at boltdepot?

Thanks in advance! -Jim

Welcome aboard Jim. There's a link to a Bolt Depot cart on Joe's site.

The support forum has a whole wealth of info and recommendations.

joe

Just checking to see what is your(anybody) opinion of this kit to go on the 4x4? I'm trying to use the 25% discount on ebay while it is still good. Every little bit helps.

thanks,
Doug

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-CNC-Router-or-Mill-Complete-Kit_W0QQitemZ120288416268QQihZ002QQcategoryZ57122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have the same package from Keling with larger 425 in/oz motors. It works very well on a different machine I built some time ago.

I'm afraid you'll be unhappy with the smaller motors on such a large machine, if you want to buy from the same seller on eBay try this package instead...

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-CNC-Router-or-Mill-Complete-Kit_W0QQitemZ380049184217QQihZ025QQcategoryZ78197QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

That 2x4 downscale sealed the deal for me. I don't have the space for a 4x4 machine, and I was juuuuust about to buy the original Joe2006 kit when....

Ditto. :)

The support forum has a whole wealth of info and recommendations.

joe

Understatement of the thread!

Technology is such a wonderful thing in the right hands. Thanks Joe and Brian for assimilating me so quickly! (I mean, who expects instant online service/response at 11:00 at night?) The Private forum has the links for the custom Joe 4x4 bolt kit on boltdepot.com, the bearing and bushing kit from Rick, leads on local Angle iron suppliers as well as unistrut. A couple clicks, a paypal password (and one hell of a credit limit) and you're in business.

I spent a boatload of money last night, and I received confirmation that a LOT of the stuff went into the mail today, which is as cool as it is surprising! All the vendors listed on the BOM are very familiar with Joe's kit and the business it has directed at them. All of them contacted me personally via email, and when I confirmed that the order was, yup, for a Joe 4x4, all of them wished me good luck with the build. That is just cool. Way to go Joe- you've cultivated a veritable culture around your machine.

This is going to be a very interesting weekend. I already got my K2CNC Hitachi router mount today and it is sexy.

I'm really excited about CNC again! (I recently had a bad experience recently that really sucked the wind out of my sails) This is COOL.

<Obi Wan>You've taken your first step into a larger world.....</Obi Wan>

Yeah, I'm a total nerd. Work with me here. My handle used to be cephjedi, but since I don't work with octopuses anymore it seemed obsolete.

Cheers, Jim

Hey All,
It's been a while and I guess I must have fallen asleep or something. Are there now separate plans to scale down the 4X4 Hybrid? Like others, I would have jumped on the 4X4 but simply didn't have the room. The 2X4 version of the Hybrid would be interesting.

Still working....I mean playing with my Joe's 2006 and very happy with it but the 4X4 seems like it would be nicer for adjustments etc.

Please let me know if there is a 2X4 version of the plans.

The "other" Joe

Hey All,
It's been a while and I guess I must have fallen asleep or something. Are there now separate plans to scale down the 4X4 Hybrid? Like others, I would have jumped on the 4X4 but simply didn't have the room. The 2X4 version of the Hybrid would be interesting.

Still working....I mean playing with my Joe's 2006 and very happy with it but the 4X4 seems like it would be nicer for adjustments etc.

Please let me know if there is a 2X4 version of the plans.

The "other" Joe

No there is not a plan version for the 2x4, they did such an easy mod just by shorting the gantry 80/20, leadscrew, and the bed unistruts and of course the frame, thats all there was to it, everything else is per plans.

Joe

Builders of the 4x4 hybrid....I have a question for you:

To bevel or not to bevel? That is the question.

If I read correctly, it appears that Joe did not bevel his angle iron, and it is working famously. Other builders seem to have opted to bevel their angle iron for optimum contact with the V bearings, and have developed clever jigs to ensure a good uniform grind.

I do not own and have never used an angle grinder, so I'm at least a little intimidated by building a jig and getting everything that perfect, so I suppose I am merely fishing for an official "it's ok not to bevel the angle iron" :)

If I get a satisfactory response, I promise not to use Shakespeare quotes anymore. Or at least not today.

Cheers, Jim