We have a haas tl3w lathe. Haas says 12" max chuck and the swing is 30" how do we hold bigger diameters without a larger chuck. We are going to turn a piece of steel that is 24 dia X 2 inches any work holding ideas

Thank you

We have a 15.75 dia 3-jaw with 2 piece top jaws on our TL-3.
It is a Bison brand Set Tru style Model 9903.
I'm not sure if it was a special order, but I can find out if you want to know.
That might hold a 24 inch round with special extended top jaws. I'm not sure how stable that would be.
The other option would be a large face plate mounted on a special A6 adaptor.
We are also going to buy a TL-3W in the next 6 months and we intend to equip it with the same 15.75 3-jaw chuck.
Good luck.
I just found this web site. A6-15.75 is a standard

http://www.workholding.com/BISON-SET-TRU-CHUCKS-A-TYPE%20STEEL-ADAPTERS.htm

I hope your lathe has the poop to turn something at 24" diameter :D

For odd jobs, I have a sacrificial plate in which I drill and tap various hole patterns. This plate gets held in the normal chucking manner, and then the workpiece gets bolted to the plate.

If you cannot have holes in the part, then welding some tabs on the back side to chuck on may be another option.

Apart from that, you can probably snoop around and find a 24 inch independant 4 jaw chuck. Such a chuck may not be rated for high rpm, so be careful with it.

how can haas build a lathe with a 30 inch swing and only allow a 12 inch chuck. Haas says if you use a bigger chuck and adapter plate you can damage the gear box or spindle and void warranty.

A lathe is a perverse animal, in that lower rpms at larger effective working radii, require more torque to take the same depth of cut and feed.

This is the exact opposite of what a VFD drive accomplishes with your main motor: typically, the torque is constant up until the main motor reaches its nameplate rpm, and then the torque falls off.

The only solution is a gearbox on the lathe that will permit you to get the motor working in its optimum range, somewhere like +/- 25% of its nameplate rpm.

This is why old manual lathes often have a modest motor hp and a 12 to 24 speed gearbox. A VFD drive simply cannot mimic the full range of torques required for turning from near zero up to the full swing of the machine.

I am not sure what you've got for speed ranges in your Haas. My own older American Tool lathe has two ranges, the low range up to 800 rpm with the 30hp motor turning at about 4000 rpm when the spindle is running 800. I have cut 15" diameters in steel plate on this machine, with a modest .125" DOC and a feedrate of .012" It cuts nice, but its about all the load that the motor will take. Since the spindle is only turning over at 100rpm, I'm not getting 30 horsepower worth of work done, more like 7.5 hp at that speed.

As far as I know, you should not normally 'damage' anything by trying a cut on the larger OD, but make it modest to start with. The overloads on the spindle drive will kick out if there is not enough juice available, there will not be mechanical damage (aside from a broken insert :D), because the torque is simply not present to do the work.

how can haas build a lathe with a 30 inch swing and only allow a 12 inch chuck. Haas says if you use a bigger chuck and adapter plate you can damage the gear box or spindle and void warranty.

When you say; "Haas says if you use a bigger..." do you mean Haas the factory or your local Haas dealer? It does seem a bit ridiculous to have a 30inch machine that can only work on 12inches.

the local dealer. It also says on the haas website that the TL3W is 12 max

the local dealer. It also says on the haas website that the TL3W is 12 max

I looked, yes it says 12" max for the chuck but 30" max for the cut diameter. I think they are limiting the chuck size because the spindle can go faster than a larger chuck would be rated.

Make sure the chuck will fit without interference.
We have a lathe with a 20" swing but is only able to hold a 10" chuck because of the tool eye.
A 24" chuck is alot of mass for a machine to stop,not counting the mass of the part.

Haas X 24"mass = Crash

I looked, yes it says 12" max for the chuck but 30" max for the cut diameter. I think they are limiting the chuck size because the spindle can go faster than a larger chuck would be rated.



You are exactly right I questioned this at IMTS and that is Haas's answer. There aren't many manual 3 jaw chucks within a decent price range you can spin much faster than 2400 RPM.

You are exactly right I questioned this at IMTS and that is Haas's answer. There aren't many manual 3 jaw chucks within a decent price range you can spin much faster than 2400 RPM.

They need to get sophisticated in their motor control software. Put in an algorithm that monitors the acceleration rate. If the chuck comes up to speed slowly then make the assumption that an oversize chuck is mounted and automatically set a spindle speed cap of 1500 rpm. Then have the software remove the cap when the acceleration goes back to normal once a smaller chuck is mounted.

If I were a shop owner and had a larger than recommend chuck on a TL style lathe I would use the G50, it is not an issue on fully enclosed machines, but just the TL style so I don't see the need for a the equations and extra work in behind the scene's at the control.

.... it is not an issue on fully enclosed machines, but just the TL style....

If a 24" diameter chuck came unglued at 4000 rpm I don't think the enclosures are going to help very much.

Dude a little common sense goes a long way! You brainaic powers may need those calculations but 95% of the machine shops do not need that so I can't see Haas or any builder going that far

I don't know about what Haas says, but if you need to swing 24", then you need to swing 24" and 12" won't do. So you put on the big chuck, and set a spindle clamp speed or even set another parameter to limit max rpm to 500 rpm and then go to work. Not a big deal really.

....... or even set another parameter to limit max rpm to 500 rpm and then go to work. Not a big deal really.

Hu's suggestion is the sensible one...except be careful if you choose to play with Parameters. I have a Haas Simulator which is supposed to completely mimic the real machine. Parameter 131 is Max Spindle Speed and the number in the column is 4000. The Simulator is based on the SL20 so that would be 4000rpm, seems logical. So I changed this to 500 then went to MDI, entered M03 S1000, CRNT CMDS so I could see what was going on and Cycle Start.

Obviously I was expecting to see the spindle go to 500 rpm so when it went up to 4000 I was a bit surprised.

Being daring, and interested to see what would happen on a real machine, I changed Parameter 131 on a SL10 from 6000 to 3000. Then programmed M03 S6000 in MDI and pushed the green button...with my hand over E-stop. The machine made a noise like a jet engine winding up and I hit E-stop before even looking at what rpm it got to.

So I repeat, if you play with Parameters play carefully. And if you figure out how the spindle speed is controlled let me know.

P.S. On the Simulator I put 8000 in Parameter 131 and the spindle would not go over 500 rpm. I am no longer willing to play with this Parameter on the real machines; I need them running to give me spending money.

Dude a little common sense goes a long way! You brainaic powers may need those calculations but 95% of the machine shops do not need that so I can't see Haas or any builder going that far

I don't think it's an issue of common sense as much as safety.
95% of the people on this site probably don't need door locks either...It's the other 5% that make our insurance rates sky rocket and keep OSHA in bussiness.
Everytime machine builders think no one can get hurt on one of their machines....someone comes along and raises the bar.

I agree leave the parameter's alone unless you are instructed to do so by a trained tech from the machine builder you are working with. The G50 is the best way to limit max spindle RPM.

Setting the maximum frequency of the spindle drive to a lower value will prevent overspeeding.

The only thing about using a G50, is that it could be forgotten or skipped if someone does a midprogram start without allowing the machine to read the program from the start. Don't say it can't happen, I know :D

Setting the maximum frequency of the spindle drive to a lower value will prevent overspeeding......

What Parameter is this?

I agree about the G50 being forgetable. One of my guys was at tech school when somebody put threw a 6" dia 6" long piece of hot rolled through the window of a SL10 at 6000 rpm on a facing cut because they forgot the G50.

I don't know what parameter it would be, however, every VFD I've ever set up has a max frequency parameter in it somewhere.

Just put a big post-it over the cycle start button that says :
"Is the G50 is set to 500?
Are you SURE???"

and another one post-it on the spindle fwd and rev buttons :
"Again, are you SURE???"

Just don't remove these post-it until the 10" chuck is set on.:cool:

I set on my TL-3 G50 S1000, the mex. diameter that i cut is 7" x 10" and i don´t have problem, i always check two times my programs, the G50 is very important.

Here's how we do large diameters. This part has a 23" diameter. It is turned on a Haas SL30 with a 10" chuck. We have to lie to the machine as to what tool is doing the cutting because it has a max 17" dia cutting. With part clamped it clears the door by 1/4".

Are you using the parts catcher for that piece? :-)

My friend is looking at getting a big swing and big bore CNC lathe and is considering the Haas TL-3B or TL-3W, but is open to suggestions on other large CNC lathes.

Someone knows how much TL-3B and TL-3W?

I have a TL3W and we run a 15" 3-jaw as well as a 25" 4-jaw on the machine. Both of these chucks were purchased with the machine and I was given no warning WRT to the 12" max dia. I agree that the limit is probably a liabilit issue. I purchased this lathe because it could swing the 30" diameter and we understand the chuck is the limiting factor to the speed we can run the machine at.

We have not had problems with these chucks and I would rather have the larger chuck than a sketchy setup holding the work piece.

The thing to remember is this problem is not limited to the CNC's I also have a 32" 4-jaw on my Kingston HR 4000 lathe with 34" swing. we are very careful to not exceed the chuck manufacturer's max RPM rating.

Regards,


Richard

5-10,

Now that is what I call, " ten pounds of crap in a five pound bag!"
How do you lie to the machine?

Poor master jaws!!

I lie to my haas all the time.

I have a 10.75 inch part in my sl-20 which alarms out at at 10.00 inches with od tooling.
I put a boring bar in backwards, and tell the machine to turn ccw.

Has worked so far....

Swain