Okay, I am almost finished building my Taig CNC mill- I have the servos installed, the electronics are here and I am ready to purchase my vise, but I need to know what people reccommend as far as beginner's machine shop tools go. I would appreciate links from Littlemachineshop or ebay, but I can definitely jive with other sites :D

Thanks so much guys :D

I don't have any direct links to the products, but I get most of my tools (I'm a lowly CNC aerospace machinist) and other things from:

http://www.use-enco.com
http://www.mscdirect.com
http://www.travers.com

You'll definitely want to get a 6" caliper (I prefer dial, but that's just me). Some good brands to choose from are Starrett, Mitutoyo, Brown & Sharpe, Etalon, etc. You'll also want to get a dial indicator. Interapid is the best brand I've used for indicators, but I've had good luck with XTest as well (I think they're made by Fowler?) Another must have is an edge finder. Electronic/Laser edge finders are nice, but you definitely don't need them, a regular one will serve you just fine. Some more must haves: thin set of parallels, vise stops, 0-3 mic. set with standards, etc., etc.

It really all depends on what you plan to machine, what are the tolerances, and how often you plan to use your mill. Often, you can get away with the cheaper tools if you don't have to hold +/-.0025 tolerances. If you plan to machine anything with tighter tolerances than that, then stick to the good tools ;)

-WRM

Great, thanks for getting me started :D

Could you give me a general list of tools required? So far, from your suggestions and my own knowledge I need the following:

Edge Finder (Does it have to be Starrett? I am going to get one with a 3/8" shank)
Calipers (Again, not sure on the accuracy, but can someone give me a model that they use with a decent price range? Preferably <$100.)
Dial Indicator (Again, a model number would be great- I have no experience, remember :))
Parallels (What are these used for again?)
Micrometer set (Again, looking for a model or a link)

Should I be looking into a clamping kit using T-slots? As in 1-2-3 blocks, etc.?

Thanks again for the help :)

Edge finder definitely does not have to be starrett, I believe the ones I use are whatever's on sale at the time. Good calipers under $100; check out Mitutoyo, they're usually around $70-80 if memory serves. Parallels are used to set something clamped in a vise to a certain height (among other things), and you'll use them a lot (if you're clamping parts in a vise, that is). You'll definitely also want a clamping set, but you don't need the biggest set available; usually a 20pc. set is more than enough. 1,2,3 blocks (along with 2,4,6 blocks) come in handy from time to time, but I don't use mine much (except for checking certain parts after machining).

As far as mic. sets are concerned, it's really up to you. I use starrett, but a co-worker of mine uses the cheap chinese imports (about $30 or so for 0-3") with good success. He checks them frequently to see if the zero has changed, but only a couple times per year does he see fluctuations. I say that if you're not going to do this for a living, go with the cheap set and make sure it comes with standards for checking. Also, you may or not want them to be able to read to .0001, it's up to you.

I think a starter set like this would work well for you:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-1815&PMPXNO=950664&PARTPG=INLMK3

and you could always add to it from there.

Here are the parallels that I use at work:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=637-7530&PMPXNO=950303&PARTPG=INLMK3

and these at home:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1893&category=988300808

This edge finder would probably work well for you:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1240&category=

Here's the mics. that a co-worker of mine uses (pretty much, different color):

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1248&category=1310310429

That should get you started :)

-WRM

Great, thanks so much! Is there much difference between the Enco and the LMS parallels you linked, or are they the same?

Sorry for the DP :\

I noticed the LMS set is more accurate than the Enco one, but does the decreased length of the LMS set make a difference for my application? I am primarily using the mill to machine out copper and Delrin.

It shouldn't make a difference at all. The only reason I use the LMS parallels at home is because they're 3" long (the same width as my vise) as opposed to 6" For what I do, the accuracy isn't too much of an issue. At work, I mainly CNC everything, but now and then, some things need a touch of 2nd. op work (say, tapping a hole that the 4 axis mill can't reach due to previous operator stupidity when building fixtures). If it goes in the vise, then those are the parallels I use.

-WRM

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1590

That's the vise I'm going to be using. The jaw width seems to be 2.88", so I think I am going to go ahead and grab the LMS set. No sense in buying anything longer, right? :D

Okay, just to provide an update:

I have decided to buy the following:

These (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1893&category=988300808)Parallels, 3" long

This (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1590)vise, 3" Screwless

This (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1240&category=)Edge Finder

This (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1248&category=1310310429)Micrometer set (Is this accurate enough for my purposes? I'm not looking to hold insane tolerances, but for measuring purposes is it accurate enough?)

These (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2983&category=1310310429)calipers, 0.001" accuracy I think is good enough for my purposes. Anyone want to agree/disagree?

WRMorrison, I would buy that "starter set" you listed, but would I be better off purchasing some vernier calipers and a ruler, considering I'll already have the other stuff in the kit?

Also, I need to make sure I have something to square the head of my mill with the table. Called "Tramming", I believe. Anyone want to reccomend a tool to do it? I heard a dial indicator setup does the trick.

Tramming - one of my least favourite tasks!

I would recommend using a dial indicator for that (it's the one with the plunger, not the swinging arm (Dial Test Indicator)) as the initial tram can be so badly off that you go off the end of your DTI, or spin it round the scale twice, which is very confusing as it doesn't count the whole revolutions, unlike the Dial Indicator.

You will also need a way to get your DI mounted such that you can spin it in your spindle and have it trace out a circle on your table.

HTH.

Okay, so do I need a Dial Test Indicator or a Dial Indicator? I saw this kit from LMS that appears to have both: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2925&category

Does that kit have everything I need to tram the headstock?

Okay, decided to go with the kit I listed in post 11. Also, I need to buy one of these Crydon relays to drive the one relay output of the PMDX-122: http://cgi.ebay.com/CRYDOM-D2425-Solid-State-Relay_W0QQitemZ130081221366QQcategoryZ78207QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Okay, to throw together a semi-finalized list:

Electronic Digital Caliper, 6" - SUPER SALE (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2983)
Dial Indicator, Test Indicator, Magnetic Base & Point Set (http://http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2925)
Thin Parallels, 3" Long 10 Pairs (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1893)
Vise, 3" Screwless (http://http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1590)
Clamps, Screwless Vise (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2675)
Edge and Center Finder (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1240)
Micrometer Set, 0-3" (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1248)
Crydom Relay (http://cgi.ebay.com/CRYDOM-D2425-Solid-State-Relay_W0QQitemZ130081221366QQcategoryZ78207QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)
Still need to find a set of 2-flute endmills that top out in shank size at 3/8".

Alright, I am trying to finalize my list of stuff that needs to be ordered. Is there anything else that I should be ordering? The list is in post 13.

Thanks guys :D

Alright, I am trying to finalize my list of stuff that needs to be ordered. Is there anything else that I should be ordering? The list is in post 13.

Thanks guys :D

A good set of squares(machinst) and a combo sqaure with angle finder and center finder are indespensible. With the combo I would by better name on these, the cheap ones tend to bind and have grinding issues I use starret myself the machinst squares are enco ones. These aid in layout and setups, anohter thing to consider is a small granite(12"x12") plate and possible a height gauge these make layouts easier the last one I got cost more to ship then the actual plate so be warned both were from enco.

chris

Looks like you already have gotten good direction, but I will ad my two cents.

About the Calipers, if there is one place not to skimp it is the calipers. I use Mitutoyo as these seem to be market leaders and of good quality. 6" inch is the common size found in most shops, but there are other sizes available. I also prefer digital, for one thing the eyes aren't what they use to be and for another the digital are more flexible in my estimation.

As for the tools like Micrometers and such I guess you can be more flexible here. What I would recommend though is looking at student sets that Starrett sells. The Student set is S903Z or S903MZ., then S904Z, then S908Z. The S904Z being a nice starting point except for the dial caliper. Generally I like Starrett but Mitutoyo has me sold on their digital calipers. The good part with kits like this is you get the basics in one shot and you effectively get started. The bad thing is that if you don't like or use a specific instrument you end up spending good bucks on what amounts to useless stuff. Of course many other manufactures make student kits, but you might not be supporting an American manufacture by going that route.

One thing that I've always liked having available is a tachometer. This might not be an issue for standard drive laths but if you happen to put on a variable speed drive they could be very useful. At this point a tach is likely a extravagance.

Hammers of the brass and plastic type come in handy.

A shavy and other deburring tools can be extremely handy to have.

A good protractor is handy.

A collection of diamond honing 'stones' come in handy especially if you are using high speed tooling.

Basic Mechanical tools which you apparently already have.

Oiling and lubrication tools (cans, spray bottles & etc)

Magnifying glass with illumination. (remember I'm getting old) Sometimes a loupe does well also. Try http://www.edmundoptics.com/ as an alternative source for optical stuff and even some tools.

As to your questions along the lines of is it good enough. I haven't checked into what LMS is selling but do realize that reputation is a key factor. There may be very good Chinese tools available but I don't know who has the track record here. For the items that you expect to use constantly it pays to buy quality. The other things can be of lesser quality, but not cheap. For example avoid the $7.00 hardware store squares as they are seldom square, nor does the aluminum last long.


Dave

As to your questions along the lines of is it good enough. I haven't checked into what LMS is selling but do realize that reputation is a key factor. There may be very good Chinese tools available but I don't know who has the track record here. For the items that you expect to use constantly it pays to buy quality. The other things can be of lesser quality, but not cheap. For example avoid the $7.00 hardware store squares as they are seldom square, nor does the aluminum last long.


Dave
I disagree with dave on calipers, I think that good, vs very good is the way to go, I have damaged too many sets to keep buying the $150 ones, I stick to the 50-60 dollar ones now. Mics on the other hand I buy good ones, I prefer older ones from starret or B&S, the iron is stable in them and they rarely need to be recalibrated, digitals are nice also but don't always like coolant.

As for were to buy I agree with Dave here, but its easy to buy something thats put into the box and never to return out again, either form ignorance of use or lack of need. I purchased a very expensive set of thick parallels which were never used once nor ever needed for what I do, I was just told I needed them...
Just like the 1-2-3 blocks I made when I went through school, they make a nice paper weight, for me I have found little use, it really depends upon what you need to do. As for supporting an american industry, its nice to think that, but if you are buying it in the usa you are supporting a usa enterprise, very few companies in this day and age are only american, the simple fact of the matter is most counties require you to make(employ workers) something in there country to sell in there country after that its all down hill. I think that its more important to get what you need, then just get something because its made here(or thought to be made here). But on the same tolken you typically get what you pay for.

If we ever tick off china we are in a world of hurt and thats no lie.

chris

Okay, so I guess I am now looking for some better calipers? I can't afford the expensive Starrett ones, so can anyone recommend a good $40-50 set? Thanks everyone for the help so far!

Go to MSC and type in caliper, some of the ones I have owned include SPI fowler and MAHR ( I like MAHR digital the best) all around 50-70 dollars. I am more of a ham fisted knuckle dragger so I go through them because of stuipd/smooth moves. I usally pay around $20-$30 for a good used mic per inch of opening. The last time I bought a new one I decided to drop it into a boiler, which it did not survive the fall.

chris

I disagree with dave on calipers, I think that good, vs very good is the way to go, I have damaged too many sets to keep buying the $150 ones, I stick to the 50-60 dollar ones now. Mics on the other hand I buy good ones, I prefer older ones from starret or B&S, the iron is stable in them and they rarely need to be recalibrated, digitals are nice also but don't always like coolant.

I guess we have to disagree here. In reality it depends on how you work and what your expectations are with regards to tolerances. For example you would not likely want to make use of a caliper to measure a bearing surface.

I have found though that caliper do it for me and the type of work I do, so generally they are the first thing I reach for.


As for were to buy I agree with Dave here, but its easy to buy something thats put into the box and never to return out again, either form ignorance of use or lack of need. I purchased a very expensive set of thick parallels which were never used once nor ever needed for what I do, I was just told I needed them...

This is a real problem, it is very easy to go overboard at first and buy to much "stuff". That is why I think you see many here just recommending the basic tools. Some of the basic tools by the way are also usable for wood working so at least your investment is multi purpose.


Just like the 1-2-3 blocks I made when I went through school, they make a nice paper weight, for me I have found little use, it really depends upon what you need to do. As for supporting an american industry, its nice to think that, but if you are buying it in the usa you are supporting a usa enterprise, very few companies in this day and age are only american, the simple fact of the matter is most counties require you to make(employ workers) something in there country to sell in there country after that its all down hill.

I think this is a very negative way to look at things. An American company is still an American company even if it has plants in Brazil or Russia. It is a matter of quality control and a wiliness to compete with the competition. Starrett for example makes very good hacksaw blades (some might say the best) in Brazil, that doesn't make the company un American. They still have their commitment to quality.


I think that its more important to get what you need, then just get something because its made here(or thought to be made here). But on the same tolken you typically get what you pay for.

The thought with the suggestion of Starrett is that yo get quality and possibly American made components. Starrrett does have stuff that is apparently imported from China but that is a small portion of their catalog. Frankly I think the stuff is only in the catalog to allow them to compete with the mass importation of really cheap (as in shoddy) Chinese stuff. Starrett isn't the only choice for quality tooling as there are manufactures other than Starrrett in the US, Japan and Europe that have items of similar quality.


If we ever tick off china we are in a world of hurt and thats no lie.

Yes and No. If we tick off China it is likely to lead to an almost immediate nuclear war. I do believe under those conditions china would be hurting to a much larger extent than the US. Mainly due to population density.


chris

Dave

Would this Fowler one do?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9821&PMPXNO=5283725&PARTPG=INLMK32 (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=12713738&PMT4NO=0)

I like this Fowler one better- Accuracy is better, 0.0010".

Points taken, Dave :) Thanks!

I don't want to get into a political war here, I like the Fowler one I listed in post 21. I would in reality go with any brand, provided accuracy is good enough.

It doesn't make much of a difference where a product is made. Why? Because the company controlling the factory sets the tolerances and accuracies. It doesn't make a bit of difference IMO whether a set of parallels are manufactured in the US or China, the tolerances a factory sets does not vary from country to country. Starrett's (arbitrary) accuracy for a set of mics could be 0.0010", whether it is made in China or the US, the accuracies are the same, no matter where it is made.

Points taken, Dave :) Thanks!

I don't want to get into a political war here, I like the Fowler one I listed in post 21. I would in reality go with any brand, provided accuracy is good enough.

It doesn't make much of a difference where a product is made. Why? Because the company controlling the factory sets the tolerances and accuracies. It doesn't make a bit of difference IMO whether a set of parallels are manufactured in the US or China, the tolerances a factory sets does not vary from country to country. Starrett's (arbitrary) accuracy for a set of mics could be 0.0010", whether it is made in China or the US, the accuracies are the same, no matter where it is made.

I don't want to get into one either, just to set the record straight, Dave, my company(printing) wholely owns an operation in Mexico, partially owns one in China and has "partners" in china, mexico, india, and poland.
Its not a negative attuide, its the truth, I don't like it in all repects, but none the less its the way it is. We were not allowed to sell product in mexico untill we had mexican employees, same thing with china to some extent. Once we had a mexican operation we started to export the quality product to mexico and other south american countries, they still produce there own also. The truly sad part of this is that some of our customers, namely the big 3 and a few others "demanded" we have operations south of the border. This of course caused massive QC problems at least intially. In china it seems to be more of the somantic then law, they won't do business with you untill you do it with them first, I could not tell you all the details though. I was simply stating that if at least you buy something buy it from an american reseller, not a complete import(no american hands).

If we went to war nuclear style with china, we all loose(everyone), the question is if its conventional, how long can china sustain itself without american food, of which we are running out of too now. Things might become very apparent because if you read the latest headlines the US is now finally considering import tarrifs on printed goods, and soon others. Its the shove after the push that always causes the problems in spats like that....


chris

To answer your question about fowler, I like them, there are so many its hard to say if thats good or not.

Okay- So the nod of approval on that set of calipers?

I am working to get my list finalized by Sunday afternoon, to place an order Sunday evening, so that it ships out Monday evening!

Hey Burn,
I,ll make it simple for ya, if your going to be machining molds,dies or any medical related equiptment then yeah buy all top notch tooling. But if your just a hobbyist then the chinese crap will work. My chinese caliper is about .0005 off when I compared it to a Brown and Sharp caliper at work( I work at a mold shop). So for my home use its fine. But for work I,m getting all top notch stuff because the tolerances there are critical. So just get what ya can afford and need, good luck!!!

I'm not sure about using calipers to 0.0005". The readout may include the forth didgit (+ or minus 5) but I think repeatability makes it impractical. Why do you believe the B and S was correct, they were probably both wrong.

Phil

Hey Burn,
I,ll make it simple for ya, if your going to be machining molds,dies or any medical related equiptment then yeah buy all top notch tooling. But if your just a hobbyist then the chinese crap will work. My chinese caliper is about .0005 off when I compared it to a Brown and Sharp caliper at work( I work at a mold shop). So for my home use its fine. But for work I,m getting all top notch stuff because the tolerances there are critical. So just get what ya can afford and need, good luck!!!

So would the Folwer one I listed be worth the money over, say, the chinese one I listed originally? I don't mind springing for the Fowler if necessary.

So would the Folwer one I listed be worth the money over, say, the chinese one I listed originally? I don't mind springing for the Fowler if necessary.

Burn it depends, its not always worth getting a tool thats more accurate then your machine can be. With my current setup I can measure far more accurate then I can machine, but then again I am not doing tool and die work either. If I am within .003 I am happy.

chris

Okay, what would you recommend if I was using a Taig, with IMService servos? I can't measure accuracy of it yet, because, well, I don't have the tools to do so!

I started out with the cheap stuff and I'm slowly moving into some better measuring tools. The first piece of crap I tossed to the side was my caliper. I bought a nice 8" mitutoyo and yes it was expensive...did I really need it right then? Probably not but it's encoder keeps its position even if it shuts off automatically (it turns off and on automatically). I haven't had to zero it out since I got it which was about two months ago. So is there a difference in quality and features? Sure, there always is but for right now I say get what you need and can afford.

You can always get better tools later and it's always nice to have a cheap tool to throw around and use in ugly situations. :)

Okay, what would you recommend if I was using a Taig, with IMService servos? I can't measure accuracy of it yet, because, well, I don't have the tools to do so!

Well since you don't have decent set yet you might take this tack, I would buy a single nice mic and caliper($70-100 range), both vernier, you can use those as a master/high precision gauge. Then buy some cheap stuff for every day work, my Taig lathe runs around .002 tolerances, the mills can hold about .001 out of the box. So you can be fairly accurate once you get it running right. You will find that you have alot of not so tolerance things that you use those tools for, like etching into layout fluid with caliper points, rough measurements, etc. Save the good set for when you really need them.
I just bought a used fowler 12" caliper today, its a POS its been beat hard but works enough for me, since I only had cheap HF calipers in that range, in all rights niether one is probably really accurate, but like I said before I only need to be accurate down to about .003 anything more and my master gauges normally suffice. I am guessing you are a computer person because you keep asking the same question about are these OK, well yes they have to be or the would not sell them, with measuring tools its alot simpler then trying to make something work out a bunch of parts. To equate, dodge, chevy and ford all make pickups, they all haul the same 2x4 it doesnt change, the trucks just come in different colors, prices, options, and feel different, and of course one will break sooner then the other.
You will find once you buy one tool you will find five others you want and two others you need, its a never ending cycle, untill you either die or take up gardending.


chris

in2stream, you are quite right about me being a computer guy :)

For the money and the accuracy, I like this Fowler unit: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9821&PMPXNO=5283725&PARTPG=INLMK32

Okay, here is a finalized list. Anyone else recommend any last-minute stuff?
1/2" Loc-Line coolant setup (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=505-2104&PMPXNO=944847)
Electronic Digital Caliper, 6" (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9821&PMPXNO=5283725&PARTPG=INLMK32)
Dial Indicator, Test Indicator, Magnetic Base & Point Set (http://http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2925)
Thin Parallels, 3" Long 10 Pairs (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1893)
Vise, 3" Screwless (http://http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1590)
Clamps, Screwless Vise (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2675)
Edge and Center Finder (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1240)
Micrometer Set, 0-3" (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1248)
Crydom Relay (http://cgi.ebay.com/CRYDOM-D2425-Solid-State-Relay_W0QQitemZ130081221366QQcategoryZ78207QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

hole gauges.
engineers square
steel ruler

Also, as you appear to be listing items other than measuring:

Depending on your intentions regarding marking-out you may also need:

scriber
center punch
height gauge
surface plate
angle plate
spring calipers and dividers
vee blocks

Phil

in2stream, you are quite right about me being a computer guy :)

For the money and the accuracy, I like this Fowler unit: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9821&PMPXNO=5283725&PARTPG=INLMK32

looks good to me, I don't do metric often, but its reading to 3 1/2 places so that should be good. I would really encourage you to learn to read vernier scales, that can actually be very acurate for low cost.

You know I never thought to ask this yet but what are you intending on making, if its anything round you will find the mic more usefull then a caliper.

As Phil also states you might consider a at least a granite plate, but be warned they cost more to ship then to purchase, I paid $36 dollars for a plate, and 96 to ship it. Height guages and the such are a little more advanced and I untill recently lived without one but they are nice for comparing and laying out. I would agree with Phil and then some on the punches you might want a set of transfer punches in addtion, they don't have to special I just got some from HF for $9 yesterday, but also a decent set of center punches, don't skimp on these as they need to be properly harderend I would say something like proto or even craftsmen are still nice. You need a full set, as center punch and prick punch are both needed, one sets the hole the other gives a good start for drill. I personally have never touched my calipers and dividers(one is still in its plastic bag), but I know someone my age who cannot live without them. A scriber is a must for layout work, many good combo sqaures come with one in it also that will pass for small work. I do layout work more then I do work with my indicators, if yo ugo cnc you may not need these as often though. I don't own a angle plate, nor a sine bar/plate never have needed them myself, again that depends upon what you do.

chris

Thanks for the info- I am looking to make a PC waterblock for liquid cooling. It primarily involves a pocket with an array of blind holes and a series of drilled holes outside the pocket, and then a contour around the piece. I think a nice set of calipers over a good set of mics would work better for me in this situation.

Does anyone have any objections to the list in post 33? I am looking for transfer punches and center punches at the moment.

Thanks again guys :D

I guess this is another point I have to disagree with. It is always worth the expense of having measuring tools more accurate than your machining tools. Otherwise how do you really achieve anything on the tool?

Maybe others will disagree but I see the ability to measure better than your machine as being a key to doing quality work. After all wear in leadscrews and ways happen and a machinist has to compensate for that. Without do tools you won't know how or where to do so. For many here that won't mean a lot of tools either, maybe a good caliper and a micrometer. Relative to the cost of everything else it just seems silly to cut corners here. Given that you buy a good caliper and a micrometer you might be out say $225 which is maybe a tenth of the cost of a well outfitted small lathe. Frankly I'd cut corners in other ways such as making my own tooling and such then to go with questionable measuring tools.

Maybe my priorities are different than others here but starting out with good basics is a win in the long term.

dave


Dave

Burn it depends, its not always worth getting a tool thats more accurate then your machine can be. With my current setup I can measure far more accurate then I can machine, but then again I am not doing tool and die work either. If I am within .003 I am happy.

chris

I guess this is another point I have to disagree with. It is always worth the expense of having measuring tools more accurate than your machining tools. Otherwise how do you really achieve anything on the tool?

Maybe others will disagree but I see the ability to measure better than your machine as being a key to doing quality work. After all wear in leadscrews and ways happen and a machinist has to compensate for that. Without do tools you won't know how or where to do so. For many here that won't mean a lot of tools either, maybe a good caliper and a micrometer. Relative to the cost of everything else it just seems silly to cut corners here. Given that you buy a good caliper and a micrometer you might be out say $225 which is maybe a tenth of the cost of a well outfitted small lathe. Frankly I'd cut corners in other ways such as making my own tooling and such then to go with questionable measuring tools.

Maybe my priorities are different than others here but starting out with good basics is a win in the long term.

dave


Dave
First off, thank you for the suggestions- I do agree that high precision instruments is one of the most important "things" a shop can have.

I would love to spend as much money as is necessary on calipers and micrometers, but not having a full machine shop's budget, this hobby really becomes difficult to buy tooling for.

So if I were to spend, say, $150 at the absolute maximum for calipers and micrometers, what would you say fits that range? Not having much experience in machining, I myself can't really pick what's right for me. Others, who have been in the industry for years, are much better suited to choosing tools because they know what "works".

Okay, got around to ordering the stuff yesterday. Decided to go with the Phase II vise over the toolmaker's grinding vise, because I figure that the purpose for which it was intended for is what I need to match it to. So the milling vise is what I am using it for, to mill.

Thanks to everyone who helped out- I will have pictures in a few days or so :D

Ooh, what could this be?
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10370.jpg
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10371.jpg

It's a vise!
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10372.jpg
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10373.jpg
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10374.jpg
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10375.jpg
http://rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10376.jpg

Your other half allowed you to put that heavy vise on the kitchen counter tops granite at that. Wow, mine would be looking to make sure the insurance is paid up, cause someone is gonna die.

Where did you get that one and how much? I need a vise also.

Smitty

I guess this is another point I have to disagree with. It is always worth the expense of having measuring tools more accurate than your machining tools. Otherwise how do you really achieve anything on the tool?

Maybe others will disagree but I see the ability to measure better than your machine as being a key to doing quality work. After all wear in leadscrews and ways happen and a machinist has to compensate for that. Without do tools you won't know how or where to do so. For many here that won't mean a lot of tools either, maybe a good caliper and a micrometer. Relative to the cost of everything else it just seems silly to cut corners here. Given that you buy a good caliper and a micrometer you might be out say $225 which is maybe a tenth of the cost of a well outfitted small lathe. Frankly I'd cut corners in other ways such as making my own tooling and such then to go with questionable measuring tools.

Maybe my priorities are different than others here but starting out with good basics is a win in the long term.

dave


Dave

Dave, I don't disagree with you, but there are times and circumstances that its not always needed either. The ideal and the reality are almost always two seperate things, if I were doing this as a my one and only job then I am entirely inclined to agree with you. This does not excuse subpar work or craftsman ship, but the ablity to do the work(buying the machine and vise) supersedes the ablity to measure it.... In my particluar case finish is of the outmost importance, flatness is second, niether of which I use precision insturments on(unless you consider a cheap surface plate). The actual measurement needs to be with .010 of defined thickness and thats it, as long as I am clean and flat(via blueing) and over my min thickness I am very happy. Thats not say I do other things, but those typically don't need to be that close. If I was making parts for the medical industry, well then yes I would be using the cadilac of tools. I agree with you on making tools, and I think alot people would benefit from making there own tools, I think to many people run to carbide, when they could be or should be using something else which would have been much cheaper and better.


chris

Your other half allowed you to put that heavy vise on the kitchen counter tops granite at that. Wow, mine would be looking to make sure the insurance is paid up, cause someone is gonna die.

Where did you get that one and how much? I need a vise also.

Smitty
:p I made sure I had the styrofoam packaging underneath it and plenty of napkins :D

Littlemachineshop: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1904&category=3

Hmm. I'm getting tired of loading and unloading my 6 inch precision vise I got from there... Its close to 50 pounds and it's getting pretty old moving that thing around for small parts. (nuts)

Rushed home today :D UPS came through!

http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10406.jpg
http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10407.jpg
http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10408.jpg
http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10409.jpg
http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10410.jpg
http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10411.jpg
http://www.rigshowcase.com/img/8K0XHG/10412.jpg