Today I found a bit of time just for myself - so sat with the jrgo drawings and made a list of parts I could cut.Then into the workshop to see what was lying around - I knew that some 18mm ply was there because I had just made a load of speaker cabinets for a customer.My thought was - lets see what I can do with the leftovers.

Will put some pictures up later this evening when I get some more time - but a lot of bits have been cut today - mainly small things - I have realised I will have to go get some more ply.

Got the bearings and I had to get a new router the other day so I bought a trend - the one with the slim body so thats going in the machine at the last possible moment.

Will update as and when I do more stuff on the project - but I have been hanging round the forum for ages reading as many posts as I can so if I get stuck there will be someone out there that can help - that I am sure of.

Sorry about the long winded post but I guess it is the enthusiasm showing through and the relief of actually starting the project.

I can hear it already, your CNC will be making music soon. Speaker cabinets and guitars, it'll be the best looking JGRO out there. Keep posting. If I help you, it'll be a rookie helping a rookie.

I will keep posting as and when I can do the work - The cabs and guitars oh and the band (www.crystal-garden.co.uk) the wife etc all take priority - Who am I kidding cant wait to get it done - Then the uphill struggle to learn CAD - it's never ending ah well - at least we can keep each other sane and motivated

I am also gathering parts to build the Jgro.Mine will also be built out of 18mm meranti ply, its the thickest ply I can get locally here in Cape town.i am busy building the stepper drivers using the plans from www.pminmo.com.I am still in the process of converting the drawings to metric slowly getting there.Good luck with your build Drakkn Guitars

Sorry the web address for the driver plans are www.pminmo.com

ahhh, the the feeling of relief of not watching others do their build, but actually starting your own, great luck on your venture, we'll all be watching and supporting, keep those photos coming.

I knocked up a bit of a spreadsheet to help me do the cutting - some things are missing and also I have started to write a manual for myself in the form of a blog - I will publish the blog on my website at some point.

If anyone wants the spreadsheet it was done with Office2007 - sorry had to convert to office 2003 to upload .if you want to add to it or change it and post it back to me that will be fine.

Drakkn,

Nice going, doesn’t it feel good to be actually putting it together! All the thinking and planning is important but you just don’t feel the satisfaction you get when you have something (physical) to show for the time you put in.

Good luck on your build.

V&B.

Very true cant wait - I think on sunday I may build a torsion box - right now I am absolutely shattered - its 01.41am and I have just got in from playing a gig in Leeds with my band - having a cuppa to calm down and to check messages and post etc.But the thrill of starting has put a new spring in my step.

By the way the spreadsheet has the conversion from imperial decimal measurements to metric if anyone needs them.

Nice Spreadsheet. I wish I had that 3 weeks ago.

I think one of my next jobs is to go through the drawings and put the metric dimensions on those - that is going to be a long painful task unless someone has already done it or fancies doing it - Any takers?

I'd check with HayTay about metric drawings. If anybody knows, he's the guy. He has his fingers on all the JGRO file downloads. I just don't remember if somebody did that already.

So far so good - managed to get in a couple of hours in the workshop - now getting to the point where I have used up most of my offcut material - so a trip to my favorite wood supplier is in order.Will take some more photo's and put them up later

Gliderider

My machine is going to end up a mix of mdf and marine ply.

Quick question about glue - which is best for the mdf and which for the ply?
Bear in mind I am in the UK so may not be able to find some of the US stuff here.
Gosh my tech questions have started - hopefully will be able to keep them in this thread for ease of finding the answers again.

Drakkn,
I used regular wood glue. I wasn't particular. I figure its just MDF, I expect any wood glue would bite into the porous surface.
Dave

Found some MDF and did a bit of cutting and started to glue up one of the beds with the Unibond glue that I forgot I had.Also went on ebay and ordered some vylon to make the adjustment blocks and anti backlash stuff from.
Plus I am about to start another spreadsheet for everything I buy from here on in - so far everything has been done with offcuts from other jobs so basically no cost involved.

Sundays pic now attached

I seem to remember that there is a thread which mentions some software that you can use to work out cutting patterns in a sheet of say ply/MDF.Anyone know where I can find it.


The costings for the jrgo spreadheet has started - if you want a look its attached but not much in it yet

Hi Drakkn

I use a program at work called Cutting Edge to work out the best cutting pattern.I am still collecting parts for my Jgro build, hope to have the electronics finished soon.Good luck with your build

Thanks Edmond

Any idea where to get this software from?

Regards

Drakkn,
Your build is looking good.

Hi Guys
Slightly off topic but have you guys got any simple designs for making wooden clamps - I just keep running out of them on the build

Hi Drakkn

Sorry cant help with the wooden clamps.I found the company's website that makes the Cutting Edge Software www.ca-nz.co.nz , the company's name is Computerised Alternatives.

Hi Edmond - that cutting edge software looks nice - but the form on their website does not work - so I will have to look for an alternative - or better still ask my prgrammer son to write something similar - or even a web based calculator - now that would be cool.

http://www.delphiforfun.org/Programs/CutList.htm

is this the software you're looking for, I just used it to lay out the parts for Joe's 2nd machine

Tony

http://www.delphiforfun.org/Programs/CutList.htm

is this the software you're looking for, I just used it to lay out the parts for Joe's 2nd machine

Tony


Many thanks thats the one I remembered

Can you use the same dimension pipes on a 3 axis ..Pipe is expensive in the UK and you have to buy in stupid lengths eg 6.5 metre lengths

The short answer is No,,,, I mean maybe :).

Any change in pipe diameter will result in a spacing change that affects the wooden supports. You will either have to adjust the pipe locations, or the roller spacing. (It will also change the spacers under the skate bearings, but that's not a problem.)

Isn't there anybody else over there that is building a CNC router? I know that wishful thinking.

Come on UK guys, help a brother out and sell him some spare pipe.
Dave

Gliderider

I saw some pictures of your machine showing the motors - are you not using pipe for the z axis - If i can use something other than pipe would save me some real trouble and cost.

Hi Drakkn

I am also looking for an alternative for the pipe.Here in South Africa I also have to buy in 6.5m lengths and I am not sure if I can get the Imperial sized gas pipe.I wonder if bright steel rod is a better idea, dont know how much it costs.Anyone out there with a suitable metric alternative to the pipe

Hi Drakkn and Gliderider

I am also looking for a alternative to the pipe.In South Africa I also have to buy it in a 6.5m length and I dont know if I can get the Imperial sized gas pipe the plans call for.Can bright steel rod be used, I dont know how much it costs, will let you guys know.I am starting my Jgro build at the end of the month, my skate bearings should be arriving this week.I am going to build my Jgro out of HDPE.

I personally used 32mm seamless tube on my JGRO's long axis (solid shafting can also be used). The size just needs to be close enough.

About that steel rod, if its the kind found in the hardware store do not use it. If you are forced to use it then have the sections turned on a lathe.

Black gas pipe or welding pipe is better than the galvanised pipe, I used it on my other axis.

Around here woodworkers use it when assembling pipe clamps.

Jason

Well I have not done much since my last post - but finding out about where I can get various parts etc ,however I was just browsing ebay about 15 minutes ago and placed a bid on an auction - now I have my 3 axis stepper controller and 3 nema 23 motors all for the grand total of £74 + £8 postage - which I think is a real bargain.
Just need a psu now a loads of nuts bolts etc and a bit more work on making the frame etc and I will be away up and running.
But just to put a spanner in the works I have been offered a welded steel frame part started cnc machine so I have bought that for £35 so do i now make a hybrid of the two or just make 2 machines mmmmm descisions descisions

The 3 x Stepper motors are 12V, 20 ohm/phase, 1,8°/step = 200 step/revolution, Nema23 standard mounting, torque @ 30rpm > 4,5 kgfcm, 14W per motor (2 phases on)

The card and motors are brand new and have been used once to test that they are working, on my small home built router. We use Mach3 and this software is available online as a Demo download. The Demo mode is fully functional up to 999 lines of G-Code, which does suffice for small jobs.

We will supply the ready configured software profile for Mach 3 so that you can get up and running straight away with Mach 3, or you can take the settings from the supplied Mach 3 profile and use them with another CAM software package of your choice, the kit is compatible with many CAD/CAM software programs.

Kit Features:-

* Motors are included
* 3-axes interpulated (coordinated movements)
* 5 digital inputs for home-switches, feeling cauge, emergency stop, etc.
* 2 relay outputs for electric tool, vacuum cleaner, etc.
Relay contacts are accessible by 2 screw terminals. Normally Open contacts are rated 250VAC/5A. Both output have 1 signalling led each.
* Single supply 12V DC. Led signalling power present.

We will provide instructions on how to install the Profile to the Mach3 program, and a Mach 3 forum is available for technical queries if you are unsure of how to use the software thereafter.
The Card Driver is an Industrial quality Printed Circuit Board with Green soldermask, white serigraphy and industrial drilled. The components are already soldered to the card and ready to use. All you have to do is attach the 3 stepper motors, the parallel printer cable and a power supply.

A power supply is NOT included in the sale, you will need to supply your own , we use a 12v 8amp power supply unit and the kit works perfectly well with a 12v 4amp power supply, both are available easily from many Ebay and other Internet sources.An old Laptop power supply of the correct volt/ampage would be fine...

The cables have been extended, as pictured, so that each stepper motor can be fitted directly to the CNC machine and will reach the card controller easily if placed at the side of your machine. You could easily extend these further if/as necessary..


That was the info on the ebay advertisement

I am really getting on with it now - just ordered the power supply
I got it from www.powersuppliesonline.co.uk price including delivery £40.69


S-100F-12 - 102W 12V 8.5A Enclosed Power SupplyHome > Products > Enclosed > S-100F Series 100W Single Output Switching Power Supply > 102W 12V 8.5A Enclosed Power Supply

DescriptionA 100W enclosed type switching power supply offering worldwide input voltage (selectable via switch) and easy connect terminals for AC and DC power. With standard features such as short circuit, over load and over voltage protections this unit is suitable for application areas such as general elctronics, factory automation, gaming machines & moving sign industry.

Case Details199 x 98 x 38mm
General SpecificationsInput Voltage 88~132Vac/176V~264Vac selectable by switch
Input Frequency 47 ~ 63Hz
AC Current 3.15A/115Vac 1.5A/230Vac
Inrush Current 20A/115Vac 40A/230Vac, cold start
Leakage Current <1mA/240Vac
Setup, Rise, Hold Up Time 1000mS, 30mS, 20mS at full load
Over Load Protection 105%~150% rated output power
Hiccup mode, auto-recovery
Over Voltage Protection Hiccup mode and recover automatically once fault removed
Working Temperature -10°C to 60°C (refer to output derating curve)
Working Humidity 20 ~ 90% RH non-condensing
Storage Temperature, Humidity -20°C to +85°C, 10~95% RH
Temperature Coefficient ±0.03%/°C (0~50°C)
Vibration 10~500Hz, 2G 10min./1 cycle, 60 min. each along X, Y, Z axes
Withstand Voltage I/P-O/P:3.0KVAC I/P-FG:1.5KVAC O/P-FG:0.5KVAC
Isolation Resistance I/P-O/P, I/P-FG, O/P-FG: 100M Ohms/500VDC
Safety Standards UL1012, UL60950-1,TUV EN60950-1Approved CSA60950-1 (for 24V only
EMC Standards Compliance to EN55022 (CISPR22) Class B, EN61000-3-2,-3,
EN61000-4-2,3,4,5,6,8,11; ENV50204, EN55024, Light industry level, criteria A
MTBF 314.9K hours min

S-100F-12 Output Data

Voltage Rated Current Rated Power R&N Volt.Adj. Tol. Line Reg. Load Reg. Eff. OVP
12V 8.5A 102W 125mV 10.8 ~ 13.2V ±1.0% ±0.5% ±0.5% 80% 13.8V ~ 16.2V

Drakkn,
wow that's a lot of specs. It appears you bought a 12 volt ps. If so, I think you will be disappointed with that low voltage. I'm seeing some guys with 40 and 80 volt power supplys. I personnally use a 24 volt ps and I want to go higher. Higher voltage means more torque and more speed.

Maybe some other experts will chime in and provide a more detailed view of ps needs.

Well I am off to collect a welded frame that has been offered to me on sunday - will update with pics and sizes - not sure what direction to go in now .any suggestions from you guys.

Dear Drakkn,

I am full of admiration. You started building, and I'm still agonising. Thanks.

A couple of points...

1) could you let me know which type of pipe you plonked for on each axis, or are you still undecided? I've been thinking about ERW tube. Any opinions welcome.

2) I may very well be wrong, but I think your motors and PSU are (ahem), well weedy. You will need much bigger ones INVVVHO for a JGRO. If there is a manufacturer's name and a model number on each motor, please post it, together with the data sheet.

3) IMVVHO, I think you should be prepared to have to obtain more powerful motors and a much bigger PSU. I could be wrong, but meanwhile, I would advise you not to buy or make any components that impinge on the choice of motors.

I know this will sound like the ravings of a party-pooper....

As someone said elsewhere "my advice is free.. and worth every penny"


Best wishes

Martin

Hi Martin

Thanks for the reply re power of the motors etc , I purchased them because of the cost and the deal i got - for experimenting with - If i find i needs loads more torque and power then as you say I will get more gear.

As for rods - I am undecided as also I am now re the frame - where are you in the UK martin - cos I think it maybe good to set up somewhere to meet for uk people.

I am in wakefield , west yorkshire

Dear Drakkn,

Sorry, I misunderstood about the motors.

I would be really interested to know what other people in the UK are using for their gantry rails. I have no feel at all about how straight or how round different types of pipe are likely to be. Has anybody used ERW tube?

Oh, I'm west London.


Best wishes


Martin

Hi Martin

The label on the motors

4S56R-120B51S
12v 20.o 1.8 /STEP
LOT 8Y2
SAE HAN ELECTRONICS

The controller board is p/n cnc611
from www.ideegeniali.it

will put up pictures asap

Regards

Tony

Link to uk power supply supplier http://www.powersuppliesonline.co.uk

Hope it is of use

Hi Martin

The label on the motors

4S56R-120B51S


Regards

Tony

Dear Tony,

I think these are your gizmos...

http://www.shmotor.co.kr/english/product/56R_product01.php

They have a holding torque of 4.5 kgfcm which is equivalent to about

62 ounce inch

I think most JRGO builders use motors that have quite a lot more holding torque.

Here is what Jason Marsha said in his thread

The 3 axis Hobbycnc setup with the 127oz/inch motors. I would advise the 200 oz/inch motors. Its not that the 127 oz/inch motors don't work well but I have pushed them to their limits at this time.

Hope this is of some help

Best wishes

Martin

Thanks for the info Martin

One of my applications for a cnc machine will not need great torque - I will be making scratch plates for guitars so the low torque should not be a problem.My plan is to have 4 machines eventually all to do different jobs so all will need different specifications.

1 scratch plates
2 guitar bodies
3 guitar necks
4 speaker cabinets

Maybe its a bit ambitious but if you do not have any ambition then you never get anything done.

Cheers

Tony

Has anybody used ERW tube?

Hi Martin,

I have used ERW steel tubes on more than one machine now. IMO they are excellent; accurate to within 0.1mm down their entire length at least. I could put a micrometer on some and give you better figures if it will help. You will find that running skate bearings on tube very quickly forms flats where they run. I would recommend running the axes by hand up and down their entire length a few times with a lot of pressure on the bearings. This will form the flats the entire length of the machine before running jobs; that way you will be able to add more preload to the bearings and prevent binding as you from time to time use the full length/width of the machine.

Having said all of that I have very nearly finished my 3rd machine and would strongly recommend using EWR square tube instead of round. I have used it on the X axis and have linear slides on my Z and Y. With square tube you can get a very large amount of preload with out binding as you would with round tube. It is far superior to a round tube system. When I get my didgi camera back (gone on holiday with my sister) I will be posting some pictures in the linear motion forum in the “Alternative to round tube” thread that ger21 started if you are interested. I would never use a round tube system now I have experienced the difference compared to square. I have the cnc user going by the name of the__extreme to thank for the idea as my system is almost an exact copy of his post #86 with twin bearings horizontally instead of one (spread to avoid the rail fixing holes in the centre. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=294232#post294232

Regards,

John

Dear John,

Thanks for that. I've posted a few questions to you on the "Alternative to round pipe" thread.

Best wishes

Martin

Hi Drakn, I too am based here in the UK and live in Nottingham and like you am on the verge of building a CNC machine to do woodworking projects and have to say there are some geniuses on this board and my advice is ask here before you make the plunge I would love to meet up with you sometime when you have got your machine done and to see what I may need in my build. The setting up of the machine to do the first cut is scaring me as I don't know where to start and how to set up the running program like the leadscrews etc etc, would be great to learn with you and any other fellow UK members, let us know, also congrats on your new build, CHEERS!!

Hi Guys, I am in Gloucester and have almost got all the kit together to make a start. I have finished my HobbyCNC board I bought last year, and just need the time to get on with it. I was going to go with the skate bearings and tube but am now leaning towards linear bearings and solid rod.

Maybe a UK section would be useful on the purchasing front, as the parts are a lot harder and more expensive to source here.

Steve

Hi Steve, my father in law lives in Cheltenham in a place called Charlton Kings very nice part of the UK which isn't to far from Gloucester. Maybe that is a good idea in having a section which fellow brits can order some stuff from the US or whatever and share costs. Maybe you can do a build log to see how your machine is made.:)

Hi Guys

I got a bit side tracked when I bought an x axis frame from a guy in York - but I still intend doing the jrgo build - but now I am doing this guys design - if you look on my other thread re aluminium router build.http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37139
Anyway he has helped me a great deal and given me some great advice and some good contacts in buying stuff.

Marchant Dice on ebay is a great place to get rods/leadscrews etc - you can PM me if you want - and I will try to help - but I am a guitar maker not an engineer but learning all the time.

I will put a build thread on here when i finally get around to starting the project!!

Too many hobbies, not enough time

Steve

Well nearly finished the aluminium machine - so will use it to make the jrgo that I started on earlier in this thread - It seems a real shame not to finished what I started

Hi just coming in on this thread after reading all the posts before. I was lucky enough to be given a jgro by a kind hearted sole on this forum. Just needing all the electrics, I bought and installed a 3 Nm 48v system bought from Motion Control. The one thing I was told by the person who donated the machine (which I had to deal with) and read of others having the same problem is the spread of the unsupported rails. This is a real issue with the gas pipe design and if I would change anything I would definitely use a different rail system. Some have braced across the table with long studding and packed against the sides. Using the packing blocks that came with my table, I have finally got over it by screwing one side to a wall and introducing a 2" x 2" length of angle iron down the outside edge of the other side.

Only up and running 3 days ago I would strongly recommend anyone about to use Mach 3 to watch the training videos on the Artsoft site. Oddly although mentioned that the demo version allows 1000 lines of code, I think that was with Mach 2 as my Mach 3 demo only allows 500 lines. The problem solving video shows how to calibrate your table, something I would have thought should have been in the setup video, although dead easy, make sure you watch both, it could have saved me a day of head banging ;)

Still not cutting yet but hope to be real soon.


Also in West London (Uxbridge, Harrow area)

Hi just coming in on this thread after reading all the posts before. I was lucky enough to be given a jgro by a kind hearted sole on this forum. Just needing all the electrics, I bought and installed a 3 Nm 48v system bought from Motion Control. The one thing I was told by the person who donated the machine (which I had to deal with) and read of others having the same problem is the spread of the unsupported rails. This is a real issue with the gas pipe design and if I would change anything I would definitely use a different rail system. Some have braced across the table with long studding and packed against the sides. Using the packing blocks that came with my table, I have finally got over it by screwing one side to a wall and introducing a 2" x 2" length of angle iron down the outside edge of the other side.

Only up and running 3 days ago I would strongly recommend anyone about to use Mach 3 to watch the training videos on the Artsoft site. Oddly although mentioned that the demo version allows 1000 lines of code, I think that was with Mach 2 as my Mach 3 demo only allows 500 lines. The problem solving video shows how to calibrate your table, something I would have thought should have been in the setup video, although dead easy, make sure you watch both, it could have saved me a day of head banging ;)

Still not cutting yet but hope to be real soon.


Also in West London (Uxbridge, Harrow area)


Thanks for the info about the videos - I have downloaded as much stuff as I can from the mach website - and will have a good watch before playing with the machine which is near completion.However may not be able to work on it for a while as moving house is in the pipeline.Once settled in the new place will strive to get my maching up and running and earning money for itself.

Well I am back, Moved house settled in, put machine back together , ran it up, now at the stage where my son and i have (we think) go the accuracy sorted out , just need to test some shapes , loaded up the road runner from mach 3 - but I believe its dimensions are in imperial and I use metric so thats no good.Anyway willl do some more testing in the morning.

Got hold of the g code for the kress mounting - loaded into mach3 and did a test run using mdf - Have a slight accuracy problem - the router mounting is made from hdpe which appears to be flexing so not producing accurate dimensions.So will now make a mounting from aluminium when I can find some.

Also need a good way of holding down the work piece - probably go woth double sided tape to start with.

Hey nearly there though - just trying to find a cad package now that is relatively easy and cheap to use. Any ideas - autocad is way too complicated for me.

Ok I finally have something to show for all my efforts and all your help on the zone.

Anyway still have some problems with flexing from the z axis which is causing dimensional problems but pleased with things so far.

More things to overcome - how to hold the work down - double sided tape ?
or build a vacuum bed ?

Oh yes and learn mach3 and turbocad

comments gratefully received.

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Believe it or not, both of these products go on sale for half price. So wait on the sale.