Thanks Joe, the guys at Fastenal were the ones who delivered two times once for me and once for my buddy warped lead screws. As well the sites here they only had single start screws.

I did manage to order screws at a good price from Keystone this afternoon.... should be shipped out tomorrow.

I have had a look at the pictures you put up of the inaccuracy you are talking about. The dial is certainly hopping about like a flea in a griddle. I wonder if the problem could be your dial, are you able to confirm it is accurate and you are working within the tolerance of the calipers. You have had the same problem on 2 machines. Does the 2nd Joes you are building have the same problem? Just a thought. Your machine and booth looks great. I am envious of your build especially as mine has ground to a halt due to so much to do and so little time.

cheers
Peter

Not sure how to test the dial. been trying to figure that one out. Got any idea how I could do that with standard tools.
I have not taken the dial to the other machine yet.

I have uploaded the base tests I did to determine the accuracy of the machine for movements. My results have gotten better with a few changes. Only problem I have left is why are my pockets not cutting accurately yet my contours are near perfect. On my web page I have uploaded the CNC code I run, the diagrams on what I machined. Everything is there to recreate my tests.

Am I expecting to much accuracy out of a DIY machine? I figure I should be able to get better than .005" accuracy.

If someone has the time to run the program a let me know what they get it would be greatly appreciated.

Are my calculations right..... .005" = .127mm ?

1/10th mm is very accurate working with wood me thinks! :)

I have uploaded the base tests I did to determine the accuracy of the machine for movements. My results have gotten better with a few changes. Only problem I have left is why are my pockets not cutting accurately yet my contours are near perfect. On my web page I have uploaded the CNC code I run, the diagrams on what I machined. Everything is there to recreate my tests.

Am I expecting to much accuracy out of a DIY machine? I figure I should be able to get better than .005" accuracy.

If someone has the time to run the program a let me know what they get it would be greatly appreciated.

I can see if i can run the test tonight, and also generate the same test from V-Varve pro and others, Alot of people do a 4" Sq and Circle and devide results by 4 to get more accurate results.

As Far as accuracy is concerned, You need to ask yourself what you plan on making / doing with machine then ask how accurate do you need it for this application.

you can look at shopbots, ez-router, mechmate etc. others that cost over 8,000.00 and read about their accuracy, you will find alot of them are no better than your results now.

One other note i have found interesting is even different bit manufacturers I get very slight difference in results.

Joe

I have noticed that cutters have given me different results.

I am interested to see what your results will have.

I will give the 4" stuff a go tonight and see what happens.

One thing that is really bugging me is why do I see such a difference in pockets versus contours. If I could get my pockets working as well as the contours I would be impressed.

One last question What software are you using, Cam and controllor.

Joe

Mach 3 and Quantum for controller. Quantum was used for the latest run.

I scaled the original code up to 4" will run the file today. Attached is the file I will be testing. I could have created the pocket tool path as a contour only on the inside, but I figure best for smaller steps to just scale the drawing and have the tool paths regenerated... this ensures that I am machining with the same settings.

Sure would be interested in seeing what others get from this file compaired to the 1" pocket/contour file.

I did the 4" pocket/contour test and found I had the same results. There was no magnitued of multiplicaion to be found.... bascially contour program was close or near to perfect, but pocket was off.

As well I started my first real project with the machine.. Man what a saaaaweeet machine it just hmmmed its way throght the project. Check out the pictures.

I did take a video of it being machined, but it was boring to watch and not enough light under the cutter to make it worth wild up loading. I will try again when I machine the part in plastic.

i did not get a chance to run a test tonight was feeling sick.

Glad you were able to start a a cutting project with the machine, and also glad it works for you, now you can see the difference in this one and your previous machine and post results... :)

Edit: oops did not scrool down to see project.

One more note: your site is nice and detailed, and helps alot of people on here.

Joe

Thanks joe. Would be nice to see your results when you have time. Would love to see what others get as well. The 1" test takes very little material and less than 5 minutes to run the cuts.

It's taken all night to get onto your website but it finally came back online. Just a thought but in your measurement of the circle which was perfect how about measuring the outside of the cut which is effectively a pocket. This should be 1 inch plus twice the cutter width (1/4 inch). Since the circle is exactly 1 inch the outside will be an exactly 1.5 inch pocket but going by your other tests I suspect it will be about 1.48 inch or thereabouts. I am very curious to know your measurement. A possibility is the router spindle bearing compressing under sideways loading or the bearing housing moving under the side load. Altering the direction of the cut from clockwise to counter clockwise may also give different results. I think you are meant to reverse cutter path direction when changing from internal to external cuts depending on rotation of the router. I haven't run your nc file so I don't know the actual path. Hope this helps.

Cheers
Peter

Let us know that outside measurement. :D

Does anyone else have a problem with G81 after the G80 and Mach3/4. I find I have to change the code otherwise the cutter does not come out of the material when it finishes its last hole, just stays down at the bottom of the hole and starts moving from there with the last G01, G02 or G03 code used. While I can fix the compiler is this by design with Mach3?

N110 G99 G81 Z-.05 R.1 F5.
N112 X.7139 Y4.6876
N118 G80
N119 G0 Z.25 <<<<<< Have to add this line

Sorry the ISP connection went down.... hosting it in my basement, sometimes my ISP connection goes down and I have to reboot everything to get going again... as well from time to time they change my IP address and causes me even more greief. But it cheaper than paying someone to host it for me.

I will check the measurement. I actually take two cuts on the contour, one at 25IPM and another at 10IPM (I think) to ensure a clean final cut. I can still apply the math just got to add the final cut into the equation (.02")

Does anyone else have a problem with G81 after the G80 and Mach3/4. I find I have to change the code otherwise the cutter does not come out of the material when it finishes its last hole, just stays down at the bottom of the hole and starts moving from there with the last G01, G02 or G03 code used. While I can fix the compiler is this by design with Mach3?

N110 G99 G81 Z-.05 R.1 F5.
N112 X.7139 Y4.6876
N118 G80
N119 G0 Z.25 <<<<<< Have to add this line

its you cam program, not adding the proper calls.

here is what V-Carve pro adds to the end of one of my files.

N7080X5.2500
N7090X5.1250
N7100Y-0.0000
N7110G00Z0.2362
N7120G00Z0.7874
N7130G00X0.0000Y0.0000
N7140M09
N7150M30
%

Joe

I don't have a problem with the end of the file really. It is the G81 termination with a G80. After the G80 you have to specifically tell the cutter to come back up to a Z value or it just stays down and starts moving around with cutter down (causing lots of distruction).

N110 G99 G81 Z-.05 R.1 F5. <<<< this line turns drill tool paths on (G81) and drills at present location
N112 X.7139 Y4.6876 <<<< move to next location and drill
N118 G80 <<<<< cancell drill cycle - at this point cutter stays down.
N119 G0 Z.25 <<<<<< Have to add this line to get the cutter up.

What are you using G80 for? To cancel the drill cycle? And what is you're code after the G80?

The G80 is used to cancel the drill cycle, in the examples it is G81 but other drill cycles are available. Here is more code from the extract above. The only thing I did was add the one line N119. Otherwise it would stay down. I got caught early this morning when I was machining the back of the switch plate in plastic (finally pissed me of so I figured bring it up). You can actually see the bad cut on the web page picture dscn6200 has a grove just below the pocket which was the cutter going from the last drill site to the pocket location (lucky for me its the back of the plate and no one will see it - but I have been caught before).

N100 G20
N102 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90
N104 T2 M6
N106 G0 G90 G54 X2.1457 Y.73 S2139 M3
N108 G43 H2 Z.1
N110 G99 G81 Z-.05 R.1 F5.
N112 X.7139 Y4.6876
N114 X3.0552
N116 X4.3664 Y.4626
N118 G80
N119 G0 Z.25 <<<<< added this line
N120 X5.0776 Y4.2762 Z.25 <<< if not this line will take on the last G1, G2 or G3 code used.
N122 Z.1
N124 G1 Z-.2083
N126 X4.2172 Y3.98 F25.

OH ya ... you would never really know what is next after the G80. It could be almost anything all depends on what you programed to occur next with your software. In this instance I was headed of to begin pocketing - which I got a nice lead in to the pocketing site :)

G80 cancels modal motion for all group 1 g codes in the manual, which includes G0, G1, G2, and G3 as well as the drill cycles. So after calling G80, you need to call a G0 or G1 when trying to resume motion. Check out the manual at the start of the g-code section.

I don't think you actually need to call the G80.?? Have you tried it without it?

The problem I am really after is why does the final step of the drill cycle not pull the cutter back up to the floating plane identified with the G99 R point level. From Mach 3 G Code page G99=R-point return after canned cycles. In the code above the R point is R.1. So I would figure that drill patter should occur then the cutter comes back up to Z.1. Which does occur between each drill point except when the G80 is executed.

Nope never tried working it without the G80 there, but would that not mean it would drill at the next location that the part moves to. In this situation would be the milling site for the pocket.

Check out the manual at the start of the g-code section.

What manual are you talking about?

I know sweet nothing about reading or writing G-Code, but if there's a manual I'd definately invest in it.

Sorry for butting into the thread with random questions Buzz.

http://www.machsupport.com/documentation/

Has lots of good documenation FREE

Nope never tried working it without the G80 there, but would that not mean it would drill at the next location that the part moves to. In this situation would be the milling site for the pocket.

A G0, G1, G2, or G3 should also cancel the cyle, according to the manual. They are all in the same modal group as the drill cycles, so only one can be active at any time.

I will give that a go. Should this cause the cutter to retract back up to the R level as well. G80 is definitly not doing this.

I think so. I've used G83 with no G80 and didn't see that problem.

Thanks I will post my results later today.

Results on the measurements are upload in the same section on the web page. To many numbers to record so I just put them all on the board.

Video's have been uploaded as well.

My first go a picture machining.... Duck season is open :) Go SENS Go!!!!

Looks good Buzz.

What was your feed rate?

Jason

That one was 40IPM with a 1/8" cutter... but ran one twice the size at 60IPM and suspect I could be going at 100IPM (will try once I get the new lead screws in). Machine was not even working hard at 60IPM with cuts as deep as 1/4".

Picture is attached of 60IPM with 1/8" ball nose, .0125 step over. Man it is so cool. Looks much better in person. At 3' away from it no sanding is required, inside that you can start to see scallops in the bends as the cutter comes down. This one is about 14" * 11"

Go Sens Go!!!

That one was 40IPM with a 1/8" cutter... but ran one twice the size at 60IPM and suspect I could be going at 100IPM (will try once I get the new lead screws in). Machine was not even working hard at 60IPM with cuts as deep as 1/4".

Picture is attached of 60IPM with 1/8" ball nose, .0125 step over. Man it is so cool. Looks much better in person. At 3' away from it no sanding is required, inside that you can start to see scallops in the bends as the cutter comes down. This one is about 14" * 11"

Go Sens Go!!!

Buzz,

Congratulations! That's very nice looking!

You've done an excellent job with your build and log!!

When you get a chance, could you provide details on the drawing you used, like what type and if you converted it, how you went about it?

Thanks!

Bob

Here is the picture I imported. From what I am seeing with my evaluation of software products most of them allow for the direct importation of JPG and will automatically calculate the tool paths based on grey scale. The picture I am uploading has colors adjusted so the face falls inside the helmet and not out side it (based on grey scale)... one change I made between the first cut and the second cut.

Here is the picture I imported. From what I am seeing with my evaluation of software products most of them allow for the direct importation of JPG and will automatically calculate the tool paths based on grey scale. The picture I am uploading has colors adjusted so the face falls inside the helmet and not out side it (based on grey scale)... one change I made between the first cut and the second cut.

Pretty impressive! I had both the jpg and cut piece displayed side by side, wow that's a nice job!

Bob

Outstanding first cut. The speeds are great too. Congrats.

My first go a picture machining.... Duck season is open :) Go SENS Go!!!!

I'm guessin' Buzz was so distraught over the Sens loss to the Ducks he's not going to update us anymore ;)

How' 'bout it buzz? Anything new happening or are you out on your boat too much to be using it?

Rick

While I was bumbed we did not win I was really impressed with the Sens making it all the way to the cup series... Finaly got to go to my first stanley cup game... another one of those to do's I can take of my list.... but I have to add another... I want to be at the cup winning game for the sens, I tried I had all three home games for the cup :)

Sorry guys I do have a few things to add but summer is such a busy time around her... with my day light starting at 6 am and last till 9/10pm I don't spend any time in the house and thus the machine is paying the price.

I will probably have some updates later this week to post on the web page. Some high level stuff I am working on:
Replacing the broken bearing... it's all appart bearing is replace just got to put it back together... Hopefully I will get some time tonight to complete it.
Upgrade to the Dumster CNC back lash units. So far I like them
Change over to 1/2-8TPI 2 Start. I like these rods. The steel is different the rods are supper straight. The machine moves much smoother with them. Wow 150IPM is just way to fast for me. I have it set to a max of 120IPM for now... I love the sound. Before when it used to stuter along I though it was me aligning the bearings. Not it was the cheap lead screws.
Added a cleanup line to the machining booth so that I can clean up any extra dust from the parts after they have been cut.

Other than that I have just been playing with all the software I can get my hands on to play with to figure out how they all work. I have a ways to go yet with the software before I really get into machining. The sens sign was a fun one to do... everyone loves that one.

I am not ignoring everyone, just enjoying the summer months while they are here... Sorry but wakeboarding wins out over machining :)

John

Sorry but wakeboarding wins out over machining :)


Ya got your summer priorities right John! We're headed out on the boat for a nice "Fathers Day" evening cruise! Cheers!

Rick

John are you getting these 1/2-8TPI 2 Start at Fastenal ???

Nope I got them from Keystone. I am not sure I would buy from them again... the rods were OK but the Keystone ones were much nicer, metal was not a soft, straighter ... and if I am not mistaken they don't carry this type.

How is the pricing ?? shipping ??? etc... :-) do you have the part numbers ???

Thanks

Bruno
Montreal !!!

Sorry I don't have the part numbers... I just called around and finally got to keystone and they sent me the last two they had. Shipping was OK, it was the boarder costs that I found high (I hate UPS dinging me so much each time for brokarage fees when USPS charges me $5).

Sorry I don't have the part numbers... I just called around and finally got to keystone and they sent me the last two they had. Shipping was OK, it was the boarder costs that I found high (I hate UPS dinging me so much each time for brokarage fees when USPS charges me $5).
You have to be very careful with UPS and their brokerage fees. I bought a set of props for our boat last year. They were delivered on time etc. but no invoice, nuttin' for the brokerage fees, which I was expecting so I thought it was strange but soon forgot about it. Three months later I get a very nasty letter from a collection agency for an overdue UPS account, which I figured was brokerage fees, but there was no corresponding documentation to absolutely determine this. I figured it was going to be an exercise in futility to try to negotiate this with the collection agency so I just paid the freakin' thing. What really bugged me was no phone call from UPS accounts receivable, no e-mail, nuttin', nadda, zip! Oh lets "F*ck this guy over" and just send it to collections. I refuse to do business with any company that only offers shipping via UPS.

While not much I have updated some pictures on my web page. Enjoy

I like the Shorter Router Rear plate. What is the (1" all round) for? I assume to mount the router clamps.

Can you post a Dxf file for others, here and maybe in the Mod section to use with the ATC.

Thanks, Joe

Ya the 1" is for mouting it on the machine.

Attached is the DXF, but for reference all I did was delete the bottom two holes and moved the bottom up by 3". I plan on drilling the hole through the router side so I can use the long bolt from the front to the back rather than the short one from the back to the front (which would remove the requirement for the extra pocket in the back).

Been a while since I posted sorry... summer has kept me very busy and I smashed both my cameras early in the summer... should get them back soon. I have been testing software packages out and how to effectly get items in and out of the machine. Worked a little on the tool changer, just need to redo my dust collector before I can start using it. I have posted a few new pictures I manage do get this morning with a buddies camera. Time is at a premium during the summer months.

www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca

Glad to hear from ya buzz, yea sometimes we have to ballance our hobbies... and also depending on seasons.....lol

Joe

It's been a long time since I posted. Sorry been super busy enjoying playing with the machine and creating all kinds of stuff and learning the software products. You can check them out at www.buzzart.ca.

I have determined I have had enough with the ATC so I moved back to a manual tool changing method and as such had to design a new dust collector. During the creation of the new tool change I found out the air coming from the bottom of the router was causing air flow issues so I created an air deflector for the toshiba router as well to remove the down draft from the router. As usual everything is documented on www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca.

Joe I am totally enjoying this machine, creating all kinds of cool stuff... Thanks for the plans and the guidance through it all. I have started up a web page with some of the stuff I have learned how to create. While I have no clue which direction I will end up going with it all I am totally enjoying learning how to use all the softwares and the machine and can't find enough time in the evening to plan and cut stuff out with it.

Only one real thing I need to get out is the shake/stutter in the machine during commands that are flying through quickly (for example point to point corners), at first I though it was the machine but in the last few days I have proven it is either Mach3 or the computer that is causing the problem... definitely not the machine. Not that it is bad just prevents me from pushing the machine much past 40 or 50ipm (and I know it can go alot faster than that).

I just wish I had room for the new 4*4 machine when it comes out, it looks real Saweeet. 2' * 4' will have to do for now.

Buzz I checked out you cnc projects website, what kind of attachment do you have on your router and where did you get it. It looks like a ER collet system adapted to your rotuer.

If you are referening to the red device hanging from the router for the cuts. It is a tool changer that is suppose to all for easy connect and disconnect of cutters. www.hightechsystemslls.com (http://www.hightechsystemslls.com) use to sell them but have been sold out for a long time. Personally I suspect the issues I located over the last year have caused them to them to remove it from the shelves. I bought it and 15 collets for it which I really don't miss with my new set up.. With the new dust collector which allows for quick change over and multiple skirt lenghts it might take me 30 seconds longer to change over but I am finding my cuts are cleaner and the cutters are spinning nicely with no wobble.

Buzz,

Glad to see your still at it. Looks like you have put the machine to so good use. and put it through its paces... Hope it is still running strong for you.

Joe

Never pictured it would run as strong as it is. Only thing I think I need to iron out is the stutter... but now that I know where it is coming from it should be easy to figure out.

BTW; I need to make a change to the plans on the vacuum head as the 1/2 thick material is not enough to keep the vaccum hose in place. I should have a change shortly. Found it after a rather extensive machining run today (8 hours of machining the vacuum hose fell out.

You are doing some very nice art work. The cribbage boards are amazing. So are your other cuttings.

Thanks Glidergider... the cribage boards I am trying to figure out where to break in to the market on this idea. I still have lots of ideas up my sleeve but they take so long to mature when it is a part time job/hobby. Just release business card holders today.

Happy New Year

I forgot to update the new vacuum hood plans after I made a few modifications to the plans. I have now uploaded them and they are available from www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca (http://www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca) under "Yet Another Dust Collector". These plans match the latest pictures on the web page.

The updates include: better alignment of removable dust plates, better anchoring of the vacuum hose (removes the pressure of the end of the hose and applies it to the last 8" or so, and makes to removable vacuum heads.

I have been using this vacuum head for a while now and love how easy it is to get to changing the tools out. Almost effortless to have the router head exposed in seconds. The diffuser is working perfect no downward wind is hitting the cutting surface and it does not appear that any deflected winds are causing any problems. I now run two skirts one for short cutters and one for long cutters.

One thing I found amazing is the amount of dust that comes down out of the router, lots of metal dust covers the ari diffuser.

Would love to hear if others have implemented this dust collector.

John

HI BUZZ! :D Long time no hi! ;) Hope your keeping well and your family is well. Happy New Year. The new machine is looking great. Very good job. :)

It has been a while, all is going well with me. I am enjoying CNC'ing as a hobby. Always trying to come up with new ideas on ideas to pay for it :).

How's things begin going with you, I heard you were designing a new machine. I followed it for a while then for some reason the threads stopped getting forwarded to me. Hope all worked out for you.

Things are good thanks. :)

I'm not sure which machine that was? If it was the successor to my Solsylva, made from hardwood, then I finished it and its working away happily in an enclosure with limits hooked up, vacuum extraction (Which doesn't work well! :lol: ) etc etc, and a few hundred hours of use and counting!

I've been busy working on my pricing program at the moment and a lot of non-woodwork related personal things, so it hasn't been used much since Christmas, but hopefully in another two weeks I can get back to it, I have a couple of jobs lined up for February so I'm looking forward to that and getting back out into the workshop. :rolleyes:

L8rs.

Yup that's the machine. Glad to hear it is working for you. you check out my dust collector, I love it, easy removal, great suction even with shorter cutters.

Buzz, I might be doing something wrong, but when I click on your link "plans.zip", I get a page not found error.

thanks for any help,
Doug

Sorry DougO... I think it is the same problem I found a while ago. IE and other browser work differently. IE allows for delta paths where as others such as Firefox require a Fully Qualified path. Pain in the butt. Think I have it fixed now, give it a try now.

That did it. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully this will work. Dust collection is the biggest problem I have.

thanks again,
Doug

Excellent, a few things to note:

The use of the adaptor is based on me having fat sides on my router mount (you can review my online photos).

Sides of the section which stablizes the vacuum hose are nut cut out with the rest of the parts I cut them on the table saw with a piece of scrap.

You might want to test the size of the hole for the vacuum house with your hose size. I have it VERY tight so that I don't need to screw it in. Takes a lot of effect to insert the vacuum hose into the hole.

Best of luck... let me know how it goes.

Will do. Thanks again.

Yeah I saw the dust collector, it looks great. I'll probably copy it when I have room for a larger extractor. :)

As you are all aware I have had problems with my tool changer and with my new dust collector I no longer need it. I am going to put the tool changer up for sale. I have set a price for less than the collets alone. If you are interested check it out at www.cncmachine.familyphillips.ca.

Ya the 1" is for mouting it on the machine.

Attached is the DXF, but for reference all I did was delete the bottom two holes and moved the bottom up by 3". I plan on drilling the hole through the router side so I can use the long bolt from the front to the back rather than the short one from the back to the front (which would remove the requirement for the extra pocket in the back).

Buzz,
I'm wondering how thick you made your air defuser? 1/4 or 1/2 inch thick? (12 or 25 mm?). Seems that if it's to thick, it will interfere with the collet wrenches.
Dave

The thickness is perfect. Actually it turns out that when you put the top wrench on the screw heads stop if from spinning so you are almost free to only operate the bottom wrench and leave the top wrench alone. The thickness I believe is .31" to check for sure check the Z value of the big circle. This cicle is used to face the part (.31"-confirm this) as well as cut it out (z0)