Ok I have a few questions about building a JGRO.

On the parts list its says cnc_dtl12 www.rockler.com -- --- HOLD DOWN CHANNEL. I quickly looked at their site. What exactly am I looking for?

The on cnc_dtl01 and 02 there is some holes marked thru all, and some that aren't marked that. Does that mean that the thru all are drilled thru both sheets, and the other one just thru the top? (pages 18 and 19 in the pdf)

This is my first machine and my set into CNC. My uncle has a mill and lathe and I am hoping he will help me build this machine. Hopefully I will learn more about machining while working on this.

On the parts list its says cnc_dtl12 www.rockler.com -- --- HOLD DOWN CHANNEL. I quickly looked at their site. What exactly am I looking for?

CNC_dtl12 Sources:

Rockler Aluminum T-Track (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5325&cs=1)

McMaster-Carr T-Slotted Mounting Track (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=2950)

INCRA T-Track and T-Track Plus at WoodCraft.com (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3911)

The on cnc_dtl01 and 02 there is some holes marked thru all, and some that aren't marked that. Does that mean that the thru all are drilled thru both sheets, and the other one just thru the top? (pages 18 and 19 in the pdf)

All of the holes on CNC_dtl01 and CNC_dtl02 are drilled through all (both sheets). What I did was cut the four 8.250" x 32.500" pieces oversize by about 1.000". I then glued the pieces together to make the two supports 1.500" thick as shown in the two drawings. When the glue was dry, I measured and cut the two supports to the proper size as shown in the plans. After cutting the end supports to size I laid out the hole locations. I then clamped both CNC_dtl01 and CNC_dtl02 pieces together making sure that they were square, flat and the hole layouts were correctly aligned. I then drilled all of the holes that were the same size completely through both assemblies at one time to make sure they were properly aligned. I then separated the two pieces and drilled the through holes that were sized differently in both pieces. It may not have been necessary but it made everything line up much better. I used the same technique for the Gantry Sides (CNC_dtl16 & CNC_dtl17). I hope the above makes sense. Make sure you measure and align the pieces more than TWICE (you know the measure twice and cut once rule) because if you don't and something isn't exactly right you ruin 4, fairly sizable, pieces of MDF!!!

BTW, I used a hole saw set and spade bits to drill the larger holes and it was a total PITA. I more or less burned my way through the MDF while stalling the drill press motor repeatedly. Other people have used Forstner Bits and seemed to have better success. Just a FYI. You may want to give the Forstner Bits a try, I know if I built another one I would.

That's probably more information than you needed but I hope it helps your JGRO build go smoother. And, last but not least, WELCOME to CNCZone!!!

lol thanks for the welcome and the help.

I learned this year how do to CAD work, but I was taught differently then how he has everything layed out. I am slowly figuring it out. I probably won't start for awhile (zero cash and time) but I can get started on the delrin pieces (have that at work). And yes what you said did make sense.

If you haven't already done so, download the JGRO Plans in SolidWorks format (~24.6 MB zipped) (http://cnczone.com/downloads/jgro_router_SolidWorks.zip) and the FREE SolidWorks eDrawings Viewer (http://www.solidworks.com/pages/programs/eDrawings/e2_downloadcheck.html) so that you can get a better look at the assemblies (.SLDASM) and construction. SolidWorks eDrawings Viewer is definitely a 'Cool Tool'. You can zoom, pan, rotate, hide, change views, etc. just like in SolidWorks. One of the 'Coolest' 'Cool Tools' is the ability to right click on an item, or selected items, with the mouse and use the 'Make Transparent' feature to be able to see through those parts.

Oh, and along with the eDrawing and SolidWorks file formats, SolidWorks eDrawings Viewer also allows the viewing of AutoCAD DXF & DWG formats.

Thanks again. The plans make way more since now. I can't wait to get this built. I have so many plans I could do with it.

ok I have another question on dtl11. It says flanged bearings and mcmaster. I am putting together a parts list so I can order the parts. What exactly am I looking for. I looked quickly threw the drawings but I am lost. The parts list doesn't give me any dimensions

ok I have another question on dtl11. It says flanged bearings and mcmaster. I am putting together a parts list so I can order the parts. What exactly am I looking for. I looked quickly threw the drawings but I am lost. The parts list doesn't give me any dimensions

McMaster-Carr Flanged Bearing - Double Sealed 1/4 x 11/16" - Part No. 6384K352 - $5.19 US each (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=1081)

Also from McMaster-Carr: White Delrin Sample Sheet— Size is 6" x 6" x 1/2" - Part No. 8573K1 - $10.13 US each (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3458).

I know you're going to ask about this eventually, so I'll give you a 'heads up'. For all of the screws, nuts, bolts, washers and misc. hardware look to Bolt Depot (http://www.boltdepot.com/). Good prices, fast shipping, parts in stock and no minimums! Make sure you order at least a couple of extra of each because you'll wind up using them for other things once you get the base table built.

You'll be looking for bearings, too. Either do a search on eBay or go to VXB Ball Bearings (http://www.vxb.com/). Make sure that you get bearings that are sealed and/or double shielded to keep the dust and chips out of them. Again, order more than you need, without going overboard, as you will probably find other uses for them (like your next CNC Table) ;) .

Happy shopping :),

lol I already found the delrin (I have used mc master before)

It was just questions on things I didn't know about. I found 30 bearings on ebay for 17 bucks shipped from XVB.

I am thinking of making the adjusment blocks from delrin also. Is this a good idea?

edit: Ok thanks for the tons of help. I am in luck when it comes to machining because I have access to a mill and lathe.

I have found the 1/4 20 threaded rods on ebay. Should I just order 2 6' sections of it (dollar a foot roughly) then just cut it on my own?

Also I think I probably won't build the adjustment blocks from delrin unless my uncle has some spare material laying around. It would be pretty pricey to do it other wise. Biggest hit on the wallet (besides for motors and controller, which I was planning on hobby cnc kit, unless you have a better idea, I can solder on my own, and I can chemically etch a pcb if need be) is going to be the gas pipe.

I have found the 1/4 20 threaded rods on ebay. Should I just order 2 6' sections of it (dollar a foot roughly) then just cut it on my own?

Why buy them off of eBay and pay shipping and handling and risk having them bent in multiple places while in transit? You can just pop into your local Home Depot, Lowes, ACE Hardware, Menards, etc. and hand pick the straightest, cleanest threaded rod you can find. You pay a little extra in tax but save on the S & H.

You can make the adjustment blocks out of almost anything that is at least 3/4" thick and solid enough (delrin, cast acrylic, oak , steel, aluminum, etc.) when drilled and tapped to allow the 1/4" - 20 bolts to be tightened to hold the gas pipe without cracking or splitting.

Keep on truckin'. It sounds like your well on your way.

lol good point I never thought about that.

I just don't feel like working with a ton of MDF. The more I can make out of delrin the better, since I have that at work, and we have experience in milling it.

I just finished making my adjustment blocks out of MDF. I really don't like working with MDF but hey, these are great plans, and I'm giving it a shot. I can change it to Delrin at a later date if I need to.
Dave

I am starting to collect parts to build the Jgro CNC Router, I was wandering can I use 8mm metric stainless steel threaded rod instead of the 1/4 inch versionsand can I also use 20mm thick acrylic to make the adjustment blocks.What about the limit and home switches could I use proximity switches or microswitches.

Edmond,
Yes you can use 8mm threaded rod instead of 1/4 inch. How many threads per inch is your 8mm rod? The 1/4 inch rod has 20 threads per inch. I'm pretty sure you will be happiest with a larger number to threads per inch (or cm). On my foamcutter, I use a 3/8-16 all-thread. For my router, I'm going to be using a 10 tpi.
Dave

The 8mm metric threaded rod has about 20 TPI with a thread pitch of 1.25mm, I might think about using 10mm metric threaded rod which has 17 TPI and a thread pitch of 1.5mm.Im just a bit worried about using the 1/4 inch or 6mm threaded rod, it seems a bit thin.Can I make the anti backlash nuts out of Acetyl?.
Thanks for the help, im new to the whole CNC thing even though I operate a Multicam CNC Router

edmond,
Many guys have been successful with the 20 tpi pitch, however after a while, the need for speed will seep into your desires. Anything up to 10 tpi is ok for the small steppers.

I hope others will voice their opinions too.
Dave

Glidergider,

what speeds do you get with the 3/8" 16 threaded rod? that's what i have for my jgro, was thinking about 1/2" threaded rod to get more speed, being by it's thicker shouldn't whip as fast (my x axis being about 60" long), hoping to get in the range of 60ipm+, but i'll need to know if the 200 oz/in steppers can handle it, if the 3/8" 16 can do it, i'll be happy, this is my first machine so i can't say i have any knowledge of how they work, you know what they say..... nothing beats experience.

tajord,
Apples and oranges, they both nurish and taste good, but they are so different. My foamcutter's speed is very slow, and is artificially limited by the software (GMFC) that drives it. Yet I did want to go faster.

Bottom line, I can't compare the speed of my system with one driven by Mach3.

Soon, I'll load up Mach3 on that system and see how fast it goes.
Dave

keep me informed

Thanks Glidergider.
I will probably use the 10mm metric threaded rod 17 TPI with 200 oz/in stepper motors.

well I got more questions (go me)

Is it better to build this out of MDF or plywood? What thickness of plywood would work fine for this. Would it be same as the MDF specs?

What is a good controller board that is cheap (free is a plus) that I can etch myself. I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for something I can't afford. Plus I like building electronics, gives me something to do. Still haven't figured out what motors and router I am using yet, but I could get the rest made pretty quick.

I got my job back so I am going to deffinatly modify the plans on this to make it a better machine. I have talked to my uncle about this and the machinist in this is making it MUCH more expensive, but I can get all the pipes turned to be exact and stuff like that. Should be a fun project.

It has gotten to the point where I have nothing better to do, which means I need something to do, and I think this could be it.

I would use plywood as it is easier to tap and cleaner than mdf, it also doesn,t warp as bad as mdf.Regarding the controller board you can check out www.pminmo.com they have a wide variety of controller boards you can make yourself or if you prefer a well designed controller kit with a ready made pcb check out www.hobbycnc.com you just need to solder it together they also have a complete cnc package with motors and all.I am also going to build the Jgro, still collecting parts.I also want to modify the pipe rail design with something a bit stronger.

well I have to look at the plans again and see what home depot has (price wise also). I tihnk I may go with MDF. I might have some plywood around for other stuff though.

I ordered 5 bearings and a 12"x12"X.75" HDPE slab today from mcmaster so I should be able to start work tuesday on the blocks. I have some stuff at work I can use too. I think this weekend once I do some house cleaning, I am going to hit up the home depot for the wood and start cutting.

well my HDPE and bearings came today. And I just picked up the wood tonight. I already have 2 pieces almost done!!! No pics yet of any work. I may have one tomorrow night of the pieces of wood (and hopefully blocks) all cut out. Unforuntatly our table saw isn't working. Either needs a new bearing or a new motor. Luckly my dad has a friend that is a retired carpenter that is going to help me cut them tomorrow and I great new saw with a dust collector system.

Also I plan to modify the plans.

1/4 acme threaded rod (is this a good choice?)
DumpsterCNC antibacklash nuts and maybe some other stuff.
And that is all I can think of right now.

Well I have finally got some pics to show.

Other then 2 pieces that need a 1/2 inch cut off (easy to do) all the wood is cut to size. I just (read: 5 minutes ago) cut the HDPE for the blocks and anti whip piece on my band saw. I am heading to the shop to start machining them to size on the mill. I have have to determine some things.

I plan on acme threads, in my haste, I order 1/4 bearings. Should I take the 5 dollar lose and get new one and go with 1/2 acme, or should I stay cheap (read: my budget) and just get 1/4 acme rod?

I am getting anti backlash nuts from dumpster cnc. I feel its worth the 15 bucks each.

Here is some pics of what is done:
pic 1 is cut wood (taped by number via size) and the plastic and the 3ring binder in which the plans are in.

pic 2 is my really old bandsaw that I got for free.

I vote, get the 1/2 -10 acme and scrap the 1/4 inch bearings. Nice band saw.

I think I am going to keep the 1/4 inch on the Z axis, as the load isn't the same as x and y.

That way not all the bearings are a total waste.

I got the large adjustment blocks squared (for the most part) and 5 holes drilled (5th is for the 1.5 hole so I can do it on the lathe). I was sharing the mill with the machinist who had real work to do but he helped me the whole time.

Your blocks should have 9 holes right? 4 tapped adjustment bolt holes located radially to the pipe, the hole for the pipe, and 4 more mounting holes.

I know I've said in the past to drill on assembly, however, I would drill all these holes in this detail part.

I have the mounting holes and a starter for the pipe done on the 8 blocks, and thats all I got done today.

I am debating leadscrew size

1/4-16 has the advantage of percision
1/2-10 has torque and speed

That has to do with mechanics of the screw, nothing the motors can do about it.

1/4-16 would be cheaper, and I am working with stuff where the percision would be nice. Also less modifactions to the plans

I need to make up my mind

This might help and please correct I'm if I am wrong.

mim move = lead of screw / steps per rev of motor:

1/2-10TPI ACME has a lead of 0.1/200 spr(typ) = 0.0005" travel per step of motor
1/4-16TPI ACME has a lead of 0.0625/200 spr(typ) = 0.0003125" travel per step of motor
1/4-20TPI ACME has a lead of 0.05/200 spr(typ) = 0.00025" travel per step of motor

Add in microstepping from the driver and you can see that the travel from 1/2-10 ACME will have more than enough resolution for a home build MDF machine and the speed increase will be: 50% over the 20TPI and 37.5% over the 16TPI.

I think the slight increase in cost for 1/2-10 is more than worth it.

I hope all my calculations are correct and everything I have said is right, can someone confirm.

Robin

for now I am going to do everything according to 1/4 acme thread. If I change it at sometime, I can upgrade it to 1/2 easily.

I went through the plans to see how many acme nuts I needed to buy and I counted 9. These are just ones I saw on the leadscrews. Is that the right amount?

I havent built mine yet but 9 sounds right, 3 per leadscrew. I ordered 20 just to be safe :)

Robin

I think I am ordering leadscrews and nuts today from MSC. Hopefully I can finish up most of the blocks today and tomorrow, as it will be hard to do that after spring break, where as I can do the wood part any day after 4 with my dad (I have to use his tools)

I am still debating using wood screws or bolts like the plans call for

I would rather use the DumpsterCNC Acme couplers and thread clamps, they are more secure than Acme nuts and the standard set screw couplers available.Im going to use the Dumpster CNC goodies in my Jgro buildup, they are well worth the extra money

Yea I was deffinetly looking that the dumpster cnc stuff. So if I got the clamps I wouldn't need the nuts?

Thats right, if you use the dumpster CNC acme couplers you can also eliminate the nuts that go up against the standard couplers.Good Luck

well I thought I had made some progress but I haven't

The stock sizes in the back and the info on the actual page is wrong and more then a couple sheets.

stock size says 16.25 when the drawing shows 32.5

I know have to recut 4 pieces somehow (our bandsaw and our friends are both broken).

I am really starting to hate this. I may be able to get away with cutting 3 new pieces, maybe 2 depending how strong theglue is

stock size says 16.25 when the drawing shows 32.5



trust me, those parts got a few guys pissed i'm sure, good thing for me i picked up on it early, but then the way i see it, no obstacle is greater than the goal, a cnc router is more than worth it even if you make a few mistakes, keep at it, i'm telling you, the satisfaction of finishing it is really rewarding.

yea I can't wait. I have a few older guys (who have helped me cut the wood) waiting to see it up and running.

I am getting tons of help.

Now what is real fun is using a spade bit to drill the whole in the adjustment blocks on a lathe (HDPE)

Luckly I had enough extra (never scrap) left over to fix my mistakes. About to hit the garage and get building.

im having a problem finding these plans. im toying with the idea of making a mutirouter type machine and what the heck maybe cnc. thank to anyone that could point me in the right direction.

http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&file=viewarticle&id=4

there is the link to the plans in PDF

Print them off and put them in a 3 ring binder (I used page protectors)

They work very well

But make sure you double check dimensions. The ones in the diagram is what you should use.

gluing the motor mount side of the x axis this afternoon. I hope to finish the large adjustment blocks tomorrow and probably start on the small ones

oh man so its been too long away from this project. Every time I go into the garage this things bugs me to be worked on, and I think I finally have some time.

So I finally have some spare money laying around (about 400 bucks) and I still need to purchase motors and stuff

I was thinking a hobby cnc kit with 305 oz steppers (296 or something after shipping)

Is that a good idea?

Also 1/2-10 acme from enco. And antiblacklash nuts from dumpster cnc.

hmm so it turns out it is cheaper to order the board kit and the motors seperate then it is to buy a cnc kit on hobbycnc

Kit w/ motors is 280 + 16 shipping and handling
Kit AND motors (seperate) is 214 + 23 for shipping and handling

Thats good to know, so hopefully I will be ordering driver and motors, 1/2-10 acme rod, a pair of metal nibblers (different project, but hey, free shipping), and dumpster CNC clamps, couplers, and antiblacklash nuts some point this week. Also most of the other materials I can buy locally, which is just pipe and angle aluminum

hmm so it turns out it is cheaper to order the board kit and the motors seperate then it is to buy a cnc kit on hobbycnc

Kit w/ motors is 280 + 16 shipping and handling
Kit AND motors (seperate) is 214 + 23 for shipping and handling

Thats good to know, so hopefully I will be ordering driver and motors, 1/2-10 acme rod, a pair of metal nibblers (different project, but hey, free shipping), and dumpster CNC clamps, couplers, and antiblacklash nuts some point this week. Also most of the other materials I can buy locally, which is just pipe and angle aluminum

You're incorrect!
The $280 is for a "PACKAGE" and the $214 is for driver board and steppers ONLY.

Dave Rigotti
HobbyCNC.com

haha seems as I was maybe reading a little too quick. Plus it was pretty late at night when I look at this stuff.

I knew I made a mistake somewhere, I wouldn't think you would mess up on the pricing like that

just comign to check in. I am starting to work on my jgro again... I started but had a problem so I had to start over (luckly I had spare mdf to make up for the mistake, but no time). I have a few hours tonight to work on making room to build again, and starting up.

EDIT:

So my mistake when I first started was with the base. I accidently glued and nailed the pieces to wrong way. Well... this time around... I managed to do the same thing AGAIN, but only to one corner... luckly I was able to catch it early and fix it.