I know this is probably a stupid question but here goes.

I salvaged a large steel plate about a year ago. A 150lb or so behemoth 1" thick x 15" x 24". I have managed to take a few small pieces off but the problem is cutting the plate. I don't know if it is 1018 or a hot rolled steel. All I know is its a bear to cut the full 15" across and it eats thin cut-off and reciprocating saw blades.

Tools I currently available to cut steel

4 X 6 Bandsaw (kinda small but will easy cut the steel in smaller sizes)

4 1/2" mini grinder (thin cut off blades)

Sawsall (reciprocating saw)

Circular saw (never used for cutting steel)

Any suggestion or help would be appreciated to speed up my cutting operation. I would like to reduce the plate into manageable sizes. Please don't tell me to take it to the nearest shop. It took all my strength to just get it to mine.

Woodenspoke

Try this:
http://vansantent.com/Saws/evolution_saw.htm
and check out their blades, you might have luck using one of them in your normal circular saw, but you will have to go sloooowww to prevent burning up the motor. The motors in the Evolution saws are pretty powerful and are designed to cut metal, whereas normal circular saws are not.

You can also go to just about any home improvement store and buy simple metal cutting blades for a circular saw, but they won't last long.

while you can get away with circular sawing AL, its not going to work on steel, the saw won't go slow enough for the required cutting speeds (feet per minute) of say 80 for hss or 2-300 for carbide. same with the bandsaw unless its either for metal or you've geared it down for metal.

the sawsall will cut it at low speed with a metal blade, but the thought of doing so probably falls under cruel and unusual punishment. Other than the unmentionable solution, get rid of and buy the size you need or beg borrow buy rent steal a torch and be done in minutes.

With the appropriate metal cutting blade (same material that your grinder and cutoff wheels are made of) from your home improvement center, you can cut steel with a circular saw. You just may not want to. It is a real PITA. The carbide blades are much better than those, although they may be designed to spin slower.

I use a number of 4.5 inch cutoff wheels and grinding wheels spinning at 10000 + RPM on metal all the time. You know how messy those are, the one for the circular saw is even worse.
Best solution? borrow a torch and get ready to be grinding for a while.

massajames is right, I was thinking circular toothed saw blade, not abrasive cut of blade. still as he says, that's no picnic either

Thanks everyone

I checked on the evolution blades and they will not fit my circular saw, which is a skill worm drive, the small blade mounts are 20mm and I need 5/8".

Thinking:

I don't want to attempt to use the Sawsall takes forever eats blades and I already tried. After using cutoff blades in the mini grinder I think the bigger cut-off blades would be worse, as Mcgyver said.

I checked into other metal cutting blades after massajamesb post, because I liked that Idea. I found that Morse makes a blade called the Metal Devil and fits in a standard circular saw and is priced under $40.00 on amazon. Has anyone tried these blades? Plus its easier to clean up chips rather than dust.

http://www.metaldevil.com/


Another tool I own: I do have a (little used)sears twin bladed metal saw. Looks like a beefy mini grinder. The two blades spin in opposite directions (carbide blades). Makes a lot of noise lots of chips and its not easy to keep a straight line. The kerf is 1/4 " so it hogs out a lot of metal. It was a gift. If anyone has used this monster let me know what you think of using it on such a big piece of steel.


Woodenspoke

I don't have any experience with the metal devil, but it looks like any other carbide tipped blade. I am not sure how they can advertise it to cut ferrous and nonferrous metals, as most non-ferrous metals generally clog up carbide cutting tools.
for the money, try it. At 40 bucks, it might be worth it.

I checked out the videos on the Morse site. They use the evolution saw? If you watch the black pipe demo you can see it will take awhile to cut through heavy material.

Anyway the evolution Blade maximum is 1/2" thickness? No indication on the morse blades. Even if it takes 10 minutes to cut through the piece its probably 25 plus minutes saved hacking through the plate if not more.


Woodenspoke

There in lies the problem with scrap yard metals. If you do not know what the material is or what application it was used in to garner a guess, cutting it with a torch could spell disaster for much if any secondary cutting operations. Torch cutting can harden the edge, making it non-cold-workable after. Welding it can also compromize the structure to a brittle state.

For a $40 blade and a lot of headaches cutting it, not to mention risking the life span of your worm drive circular saw, I think I'd be buying a known grade in a more appropriate size.

DC

I think the best way is to go at your local machine shop equiped with a cnc oxyfuel table. I'm the operator of one machine like this and we charge 45$/hour. It should be around that price every where. All you have to do is to put your desired parts in DXF formats and bring them with you at the shop. You will not have any special tools to buy and your cut will be precise at +- 0,010" with any shape.

I have successfully milled and Bandsaw sliced this steel Plate. This makes the material an unknown entity but usable. If I can cut it easily it will save me money, which in turn I can then spend on more tools to cut more stuff.

I am always open to a better suggestion about cutting this plate thats why I posted this thread.


"you never get anything for fee, there is always a hidden cost"

Woodenspoke

The plate is usually 44w grade. The USA equivalent is A36. Thick plates 1" and above are normally 50w. It's near of the 1020 or less ...

Mechanical Properties 44W/300W:
Tensile: 65 to 85 ksi
Yield: 44 ksi min

Mechanical Properties 50W/350W:
Tensile: 65 to 95 ksi
Yield: 50 ksi min

Torch cutting can harden the edge, making it non-cold-workable after.

DC[/QUOTE]

I use a variety of metal forming tools every day, for the most part. Among them a planishing hammer, english wheel, slip roller, brake, etc. usually on nothing thicker than 16 gauge, which is cut with a shear anyway.
Gawd help me if I have to cold work 1" thick steel! :D

Cold working the material in its current condition has proven fine. Just test a piece by heating it better than red hot and let it air cool to see if the material flame hardens if you must resort to a hot cutting method. If it did harden without a test, then what would you do with it?

My other point was in terms of ultimately gambling in spending more to cut the material while expending a blade and a saw, than what a smaller precut piece of material would cost. Even if that material too, came from a scrap yard. Possibly ending penny wise and pound foolish?

Avoiding any heat induced cutting or bonding, you should be fine.

DC

I've used a plasma cutter on thinner stainless.....Has anyone used one on thicker mat'ls?....Just curious if one would cut 1" plate.

I use a variety of metal forming tools every day, for the most part. Among them a planishing hammer, english wheel, slip roller, brake, etc. usually on nothing thicker than 16 gauge, which is cut with a shear anyway.
Gawd help me if I have to cold work 1" thick steel! :D

If you cut metal by chipping it out with a saw, mill or drill, you are still cold working the material, are you not?

I have even seen 3-6" plate cold worked by chip(bump) forming on Press Brakes. Better than 1" plates of Invar36 cold worked on gantry presses.

BIG world-a-difference' between Machinists, sheetmetal or plate workers. Yet, if there is no heat applied to the metal, then the process falls into the same class of work as I know it. All be that moving it or removing it cold.

Cold working the thick stuff is young mans work, but nothing impossible if you have the right equipment. Maybe it would help not to confuse cold working with cold forming though.

DC

This may sound extreme, but if you really want to cut it your self drill a long row of small holes about the thickness of an abrasive saw blade. Then saw the part, the holes will help keep the blade cool and straight! When drilling the holes, use brown pipe threading oil, available at any hardware store!

You might want to rent a wet/dry skill saw, as a flood of water will also keep the abrasive blade cool!

Either way you do this it will be a massive project!

Good luck
Eric

If you cut metal by chipping it out with a saw, mill or drill, you are still cold working the material, are you not?

I have even seen 3-6" plate cold worked by chip(bump) forming on Press Brakes. Better than 1" plates of Invar36 cold worked on gantry presses.

BIG world-a-difference' between Machinists, sheetmetal or plate workers. Yet, if there is no heat applied to the metal, then the process falls into the same class of work as I know it. All be that moving it or removing it cold.

Cold working the thick stuff is young mans work, but nothing impossible if you have the right equipment. Maybe it would help not to confuse cold working with cold forming though.

DC

I don't believe that I have ever had any reason to confuse the two,unless I was making a joke, such as I was. Sorry if I offended you, but I had a mental picture in my head of me trying to convince one of my shop underlings to try and shape some 1" steel on a sandbag with a shot hammer. Hence my post.

I was simply saying I would never want to work with 1" thick steel in that application.:)I also have done my share of machine work, and you have a very valid point (more than one, actually). I do agree with you in full, make no mistake.
Now, back to the subject at hand...

No offense taken massajamesb.

The first sentence was in response to your post. Just in case I gave the wrong impression in my post that created any confusion.

The rest of my drivel was clarification to other readers that might not grasp the difference between the several forms of cold metal working terminology. Somewhat placed out of context by your humor, but not directed at you personally.



DC

I don't know anyone with a torch. I believe drilling holes will take as long as hacking through it with a cutoff blade and I would be left with little arcs all over the piece.

I assume no one actually checked the morse site, the blade is supposed to cut with little heat build up due to the grind of the blade, TCG 0 deg rake. Adding oil would just make a big mess all over my shop. Morse shows the blade cutting through 1/4 x 6" plate like it was a 2 x 4 stud.

The worm drive circular saw is no run of the mill home depot consumer saw; it will most likely run long after the blade is turned to scrap. Hopefully the blade wont turn to scrap, but the saw is the least of my worries.

I ordered the blade today . For $40 its worth a try. If it does work than it is a hell of a lot easier than torching, grinding or drilling through 1" steel. plus it can be used for other less demanding projects down the road. I'm going with massajamesb's suggestion because it looks do-able.

Would I pick up a large piece of scrap steel again probably not.

I will post my results in few days.

Woodenspoke

The worm drive circular saw is no run of the mill home depot consumer saw;


ain't that the truth , once you've used the skilsaw the crap consumer saw quickly makes it to the curb, or better yet in reserve if anyone ever asks to borrow a saw. mine's 20 years old, still a tank, and I bought it used when i was a poor young man from a contractor shutting down his biz. can't beat old north american iron :D

i looked at that site, those video's of it cutting the steel channel an plates are amazing, even after seeing it its hard to believe- I mean forget about surface speed, think of the removal rate...given the blade's got a kerf, that is one heck of a lot of ci per minute out of a hand held saw. i look forward to hearing how it worked

The Morse blades recommended limits are to take on a 1/4" cross section with a reduced blade speed via a gear reduction at the saw. I'd take that to increase the available torque also. The combination in the cutting conditions keeps the heat in the chips rather than the blade or base material.

Increase the blade speed and even if you try to reduce the depth of cut to 1/4" per pass. There might just be a compounding problem of too many teeth in the cut, too fast and not enough torque at the blade.

I cannot say it won't work, I am speculating the real cost could be higher than the scrap metal, the blade or saw is worth.

I can say, Thanks for being willing to show us whether it can be done!:D

DC

Whats wrong with a human power hacksaw??

I once cut through a 6" dia piece of A2 with a hacksaw and a few blades. Yeah it took awhile but the arms looked good afterward ;)

Speaking of cutting metal like this, do remember to get the right tooth count on the blades. For the human power hacksaws you will max out at 14 tpi. For a sawsall you should look for something much courser. IF you are using 14 tpi blades in your sawsall you will very likely have issues. Same goes for you band saw, get a course tooth blade and clear those chips.

Dave

I received the metal devil blade today; a thin blade that was made to fit a circular saw.

I cut my 1' steel in 1/4 inch depth increments. The first two full cuts went great; on the third cut the blade started to generate sparks. I finished the cut with difficulty. The blade was clearly dull and the saw did complain but kept on running. I examined the blade and it is intact except for one chipped tooth. I've seen blade that were alot worse off. I will put it in the two be sharpened pile and leave it for another day. On the positive side the steel is now in several manageable pieces and what would have taken hours took about 20 minutes, including setup.


"I will never bring home scrap again, I will never bring home scrap again, I will never bring home scrap again".

Thank for the support
Woodenspoke

Well, was it worth the $ of admission?

You didn't mention if you had a welder, but if you have an arc welder. You can get cutting rods for AC arc welders. That will do it but be ready for sparks.

Ideally, it sounds like you need to add a Plasma cutter or OXY Acetylene torch to your equipment list.

I really don't see how I got around without the hypertherm I have.