Well, I decided a month ago to start building a new CNC Router. I had a little hobby machine that I had quickly out grown and was not as durable as I was looking for. The main problem was the old mill was too small to cut most of the parts that I need to make Joe's model.

So I made a simple Pipe mill to cut the parts for Joe's model. (I'll have to post pictures tonight of the mill) It works pretty good and uses most of the same parts for the X & Z from my small hobby mill. I used the same principle that Joe used on his Z for the Y (Y being the longest axis on the pipe mill) on mine. It is pretty slow at 20 ipm and has taken a couple weekends and most every night to get most of the parts cut. The X axis really could have been better designed as it has a little flex to it. I figure that once I get this mill assembled and running good the first thing that I'm going to do it cut another mill as a back up or spare.

I've got the long runs for the X and the left and right gantry sides for the MDF left to cut then all of the HDPE. I've got lots of the HDPE as the hobby mill was all made from HDPE. Hopefully I can get the rest cut in the next couple of days then start assembling. I'll post pictures as I start assembling to show progress. I can't wait to get it up and running.:)

Well here are a couple pictures of the current mill that I'm using to mill the parts for Joe's model.

And here are a couple of pictures of the current state of Joe's model. Should have most of the parts finished cut out on Wednesday.:banana:

You'll have to excuse the messy shop, I don't have a lot of room and I've got a lot of stuff crammed into the area.

Well here are a couple pictures of the current mill that I'm using to mill the parts for Joe's model.

Absolutely no offense intended, but that's very bare-bones. I like that approach to building a larger machine.

Parts look good!
I like your approach! You want a Joe's machine so you build a machine and make one! Good for you, that's fantastic! :cheers:
Keep the pictures coming! :)

Absolutely no offense intended, but that's very bare-bones. I like that approach to building a larger machine.

No offense taken. It's sole job is to cut the parts for Joe's mill and that is it. There are even parts that are on it that are for Joe's mill, the gas pipe and two bearing slides. Once I get finished cutting all my parts and the I'm sure of the fit, I'll start dismantling it.

Now that is inovative thinking, (How cab I get the Psrts to make the machine, hmmmmm make a machine to make the machine). :)

seriously that is a good aproach, already have the electronics, plus some experiance now with CNC.

Is that a foam cutter on the left?

Joe

Joe,

No foam cutter. There's so much crap in the picture I'm not sure what you're referring to, but if it is the blue structure, that is a work bench that I got from my work for $20 bucks. It even was already wired for over head lighting and outlets. Now I just need to add the 20 amp breaker to the panel and run it to an outlet that I can plug the bench into.

Well here are a couple pictures of the current mill that I'm using to mill the parts for Joe's model.





Great Work on the mill.

By any chance is that JCKleinbauer's Pipe Dream design?


Jason

That's where I got the basic idea. I just made a gantry that would hold the X and Z axis's that I already had and went with that. Works pretty good, but if I had to do it again I would have rotated the gantry 180 degrees so that the Z is closer to the centerline of the gantry and made a stronger X so that it didn't flex like this one does. 3/4" would be better for the rails then the 1/2" that I used.

Just a quick update, I've got all but the right gantry sides cut and have assembled a little bit more. Need to cut the bearing blocks before I assemble too much more.

On another note, I've noticed that most people are using a break out board. Can someone just give me a quick description of what they are and what are they used for. I currently am using the Xylotex 3 axis controller and am assuming that if I am going to add E-Stop, limit & home switches and possibly a relay for spindle on/off that I am going to need a break out board. From what I've gathered the break out board is to protect the computer and probably myself if my computer starts to flake out or something surges. Now with my setup, do I add the breakout board before or after the xylotex controller. I would think that I could put it either way, but maybe there are some benefits to doing it one way versus the other.

This looks like a good one for my setup, but maybe someone with a similar setup has some experience that could chime in and give some advice.
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Parallel_Port_Interface_Card.htm


Thanks,

James

I and David use a multifunction card from cnc4pc to function a few ways. One, to control the router, to have inputs for estop and limits, three to create a safety charge pump in case your computer crashes and it will signal an estop, and four to act as a barrier between your pc and the xylotex driver. More or less, instead of frying your mother board or electronics on your computer, it will fry some components on the board which are much cheaper to replace. I choose to get the 4 boards sep. but arturo has the new one in stock again now. If it was me I would go with the multifunction card, it has everything included and soldered together and minimizes wiring and connecting.

I and David use a multifunction card from cnc4pc to function a few ways. One, to control the router, to have inputs for estop and limits, three to create a safety charge pump in case your computer crashes and it will signal an estop, and four to act as a barrier between your pc and the xylotex driver. More or less, instead of frying your mother board or electronics on your computer, it will fry some components on the board which are much cheaper to replace. I choose to get the 4 boards sep. but arturo has the new one in stock again now. If it was me I would go with the multifunction card, it has everything included and soldered together and minimizes wiring and connecting.

Thanks for the reply, that is basically what I thought it was. I'll probably have to wait a little bit to pick up the multifunction board, but I'm sure it will be well worth it.

Well, I've got all of the MDF cut and all of the laminated parts glued together. I'm having the machine shop here at work do the bearing slides so those should be ready to put on later today hopefully. I'll work on cutting the HDPE parts over the weekend. They should go fairly quick since they're fairly small and not too many of them, but it'll depend on how many screw ups I do before I get one that is correct. I'll take some pictures tonight to show progress. I'm not sure that I'm going to paint this first one. I will probably cut a second kit with it and paint/assemble that one keeping the first one as a spare/backup.

Another question, the recessed nuts, did anyone glue these in or are they just tapped into the hole and left as is?

If you are talking about the recessed nuts for the bearing plate adjuster, yes those are just held in by pressure.

David

Thanks David, that is what I thought but just wasn't sure. Hopefully I can get a lot done this weekend and be using it in the next week or two.

Well, I got the machined parts from the machine shop today and assembled most of what I could tonight. Gantry is assembled minus the Z axis, I just need to cut the back plate and the Z bearing block then I'll be done cutting. The Y is pretty smooth.

The only thing that I'm not really happy with is the Z Carriage. I need to cut another one once I get this assembled and working. It will work, but it is not very square. That was due to some of the imperfections of the machine that I used to cut the parts.

Should be able to get the X torsion box glued up and the skins on it over the weekend. Can't wait to get it going and free up my parking spot in the garage where the mill I'm using to cut the parts is sitting. :)

(The Pipedream is) where I got the basic idea. I just made a gantry that would hold the X and Z axis's that I already had and went with that. Just curious, what's the largest piece you can cut with the current machine. I've got a couple of 5' lengths of 3/4" in the garage... :)

Thanks,
Dave

The largest piece that I can cut right now is about 42" long. The gantry could be modified to get 48" or so, but there just is not a lot of support for the rails so any longer and it would probably sag in the middle.

Thanks!

Looks like you are doing a good job. You are at the fun part where the machine starts looking like a CNC. Hopefully it won't be long before you have it all together and running.

DougO-

You are very right, this is the fun part. I've learned a lot from each machine that I have built. The first taught me a lot about the electronics. This one has taught me a lot about the different forces that are acting on this mill and it's effects. Wish I didn't have to go out of town this weekend so that I could finish it up and get it running. Hopefully mid next week I'll be able to get something cut.

Here is the X torsion box glued and nailed. :)

Oh, the pictures are starting to look familiar :)

Looks pretty good for your 1st machine building this one, I hope you enjoy the machine and works well for you. (I know i really like mine).

Joe

It turned out pretty good. The only parts that I had trouble on was the Z axis carriage, gantry uprights (only 1 piece out of 4) and one of the end pieces for the X axis. This was mostly due to the width of the pieces. It was accurate in the long axis (X), but wasn't spot on in the Y. I probably should have taken a little more time and made sure that everything was true and square Y to X (Did the Z, just didn't do enough on the Y), but I was anxious to get your design built and in use.

Well, even though I was out of town Friday and most of Saturday I was able to get quite a bit done and got some movement. The link below is to a small video clip of the Z and the Y axis. I can only get about 40 ipm on the Z which I already knew that I wasn't going to be able to get too much out of it as the carriage is not quite square. The Y I was getting 70+ ipm, again with the carriage not being square it didn't line up very good. I had to shim the backlash assembly to get it close.

I'm going to cut another carriage first thing so that I can get better speed and alignment on the Y and Z. It will take me about 1/4 the time to cut it this time around. I need some more wire for the X stepper and get it finished installed and add the threaded 1/4" rod to sturdy it up then I'll cut the carriage. Should be able to get a little video cutting the carriage tomorrow or Tuesday then I'll shoot some more video with the new carriage mounted an hopefully running near 80 ipm.

I can't wait to really start using this thing. It really cruises compared to what I've been using.


http://www.spencerdomains.com/rc_pics/100_2114.mov

Well, I got everything hooked up and working. So I decided to do a test piece, the Boise State logo. It turned out pretty good, but I found out that my table is slightly sloped from front to back. I'm going to break out the calipers tomorrow and see where I'm off, weather it be the gantry, table or possibly the pipes. I'm going to guess that it is the table as most everything lined up really well when I was putting it together. I'm going to cut down the 4x4's as soon as I get the chance, my chop saw is at my brothers and so I'll cut them to size when I get it back.

I can see why Joe has recommended to attach it to the wall in some fashion as it really shakes when it's cruising around. I'll have to get the new Z carriage and a dust skirt cut sometime this week, but right now it is behind the water pump and timing belt that needs to be changed in my Rodeo.

Overall I'm extremely pleased with the way that it turned out. Just a couple of minor things to get straightened out and then it should be tuned and ready to go.

Good job Spencer.

With that bad boy jogging around there you might need some cross bracing on thoes 4 X 4's.

What is your work area?

Hager

Very nice, it turned out well. I agree just add some cross bracing and you will prob. be ok. also chop the top of the 4x4's this will give you another 5-6" overhang cutting area.

Overall i think it came out pretty good.

Hope you enjoy it.

Joe

Great job Spencer, your machine looks very good!
Other than being Boise State's logo it looks great ;)

Are you planning on cutting the 4x4's down level with the top deck?

Thanks for the kind words guys. I wouldn't have been able to do it without Joe making his plans available and all the good info that I've found here.

Are you planning on cutting the 4x4's down level with the top deck?

Yep, I'll either run them through the table saw or get my chop saw back from my brother.

By cross bracing do you mean and X in the horizontal plane or from top to bottom from one side to the other? Just want to make sure I do it in the direction that will provide the most support.

I think I might have found the reason for the depth change from the front of the mill to the back. The bottom torsion box needs some extra support. I'm going to drill all the way through the ribs and add 1/4" all thread. It started pulling apart a little but is an easy fix. I'll pick some all thread up tonight and get it installed and then see what it looks like.

If this is not the main problem, what is usually the reason for this and what adjustments need to be made?

Thanks,

James

Put a good straight edge on the x table, a good one, even a steel piece will work, something beefy or a steel ruler (long one) that's fairly new. If you see any gaps its the table, if it looks almost exactly flat then it's likely the gantry. However there are many conditions. I have 4 threaded rods per side the torsion box, two inside, two outside. (for each side) and bolted the other holes on the ends of the ends. I also have mine in a 100% level and flat bench that I built out of poplar and mdf, it helped a lot and I even put angle brackets so it cannot move (which I've yet to install on one side lol).

Thanks for the kind words guys.

By cross bracing do you mean and X in the horizontal plane or from top to bottom from one side to the other? Just want to make sure I do it in the direction that will provide the most support.

It wouldnt hurt to have some both ways. Especially if you move in both directions. he He

Hager

It wouldnt hurt to have some both ways. Especially if you move in both directions. he He

Hager

:) I'll brace it up in a couple directions and give that a go.


Put a good straight edge on the x table, a good one, even a steel piece will work, something beefy or a steel ruler (long one) that's fairly new. If you see any gaps its the table, if it looks almost exactly flat then it's likely the gantry. However there are many conditions. I have 4 threaded rods per side the torsion box, two inside, two outside. (for each side) and bolted the other holes on the ends of the ends. I also have mine in a 100% level and flat bench that I built out of poplar and mdf, it helped a lot and I even put angle brackets so it cannot move (which I've yet to install on one side lol).

I have a 60" straight edge and went over the table with it last night. I have a couple spots where it is a little higher or lower (1/32" max). I'm thinking that I'm going to put a piece of 1/4" MDF and mill it flat, but I need to add the threaded rods to the bottom gantry torsion box first then see where I sit.

Well just posting some progress. I cut new parts for a whole new Gantry & Z carriage. The new setup is on and much better. It also made my table very close to level. I added springs to the Anti-backlash assemblies on the X & Y and it seems to have smoothed it out a lot. The shaking is now very minor and only in the X direction, a little more bracing on the table and is should almost be non-existent. I also added the dust skirt out of MDF (modified how it connected a little bit and wanted a to try a test piece first) as I was getting tired of all the dust being thrown everywhere. It works very well even though I don't have a vaccuum hose big enough for it yet it keeps dust/chips in a consolidated area that is easy to suck up. I'll probably pick up a new shop-vac in the next week or two that will fit it or at least be close then it should be good to go.

I need to get some clamps cut as they really need to be custom to hold anything down especially on the short side of the X torsion box. C clamps just don't quite cut it. I'll probably add a panel with T tracks since I'm going to be cutting mostly balsa for now and will need to be able to clamp some of the thinner balsa down in several spots.

I'm waiting on some bits that should be here Monday or Tuesday. I need to get an enclosure built for the power supply & controller and get the wires routed and out of the way. Still lots of tweeking left to do, but that's just part of the fun.

Here is something that I'm currently working on. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get silver, black and blue paint on this without screwing anything up. I figure that I'll paint the base coat (silver) do a first pass on the carving, mask and paint the text and logo blue. Spray the sealer then do the final pass on the carving and paint the carved areas black wiping the excess from the blue and silver. Not sure if there is a better way, maybe someone here has a better idea.

I've seen it done where they use a sticker like film like they use for cars and they sep. all the toolpaths into different files, run one, spray, run the other, spray, run the last spray, and in between peel off the layers.. that's where the art of the programmer really is IMO, you have to really know what you're doing.. but it must be fun (I've yet to try it). Maybe someone knows here of a supplier that sells what I'm talking about.

I'm just happy that there's another Lions fan here.
http://img99.exs.cx/img99/8577/yupi3ti.gif (http://img99.exs.cx/img99/8577/yupi3ti.gif)

Looks good James!!!

When you get a chance would you mind posting pics of the spring set up you used on your anti-backlash nuts?

Thanks!

ccsparky:

I'll post one up tonight.

bp092:

That is kind of what I was thinking, using tape or some sort of film that will stick to the material and will cut easy, not rip. I tried tape, but it had a tendency to rip. I'll see if I can't find something that work at a craft/hobby store. I'll post a picture of the finished product along with the materials and steps that I used.

Looks good James!!!

When you get a chance would you mind posting pics of the spring set up you used on your anti-backlash nuts?

Thanks!

Check here, post #19 has pictures of what I did.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23546&page=2

Check here, post #19 has pictures of what I did.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23546&page=2

Did you use all plastic or did you invert the acme nuts? Can you take a snapshot if you still used the Acme nuts so others can see it, Rick made his own out of plastic.

Joe

I still used the acme nuts. Not sure what you mean by invert them, but I'll snap a photo of it tonight so that you can see what I did.

Here is what it looks like. The ACME nuts are facing each other with the springs between the blocks.

Well, I don't have the coin right now to drop on some 'T' track so I made my own out of 1/2" MDF along with some clamps. It probably would have been better if I would have used 3/4" and broke it up into several sections in the X axis to help keep the flex to a minimum. I'll probably just counter sink a couple of screws in it to keep it from flexing between the tracks for now. For less than $10 it's not half bad.

Very good. I assume you just used an endmill and t-slot cutter.

David

Very good. I assume you just used an endmill and t-slot cutter.

David

David-

Thanks David. I just ended up using an end mill with the sheet flipped on the other side then when I was finished I flipped it over. A t-slot cutter would have been a lot faster and I could have done it without having to turn the sheet over and I would have had some alignment lines to boot.

The nice thing about just cutting your own t-slots is that you don't have to worry about cutting into them like you would have to with the aluminum ones.

Very disposable.

What i did on my second machine was use two 3/4" MDF glued, then used end mill to cut channel then followed up with a key slot bit to make the unterside of the channels.

Your top looks good, I like the clamps, nicely done!

I have the aluminum t-rails, dread the day when I see blue aluminum chips :)

Well, I decided to pick up some parts from CNC4PC. I picked up a C1 breakout board, AC Relay for the router and a safety charge pump. I'm going to take some limit/home switches off of Garys hands since he won a lot of 50 on e-bay. As soon as I get them, I'll get them installed and wired.

I think that I've got the relay & switches wiring down, but for the life of me can't figure out how to wire the charge pump and E-Stop. I'm sure that I'm just tired and not seeing something, but maybe one of you that has already got it hooked up with this breakout board can offer some help. I'm pretty sure I need output pin 17 and GND from the breakout board to the charge pump. Also need 12V and GND into the charge pump. Now here is where I'm not sure what to do. The E-Stop need to be hooked into an input on the breakout board correct? It also seems that it would need to be tied to GND so that you would know when the E-Stop is enabled with the pull-ups on the inputs. Then to what else is it connected to, or do I just need a push button to enable the safety charge pump? I've looked at the wiring diagram for the saftey charge pump, but it is pre V4.2 of the C1 breakout board. Just not sure where to go from here.

James

I never completely figured it out.. and I'm a newbie when it comes to wiring. I'm sure I had it close but something was off, I ended up just saying screw it and have been using the controller computer with all boards just disconnected the main breakout board and used it without all the extra cards. Email arturo at cnc4pc and ask him for the sample wiring diagram pdfs. He used to list them on his site now he changed the site design and they aren't there. THose should answer many questions.

I never completely figured it out.. and I'm a newbie when it comes to wiring. I'm sure I had it close but something was off, I ended up just saying screw it and have been using the controller computer with all boards just disconnected the main breakout board and used it without all the extra cards. Email arturo at cnc4pc and ask him for the sample wiring diagram pdfs. He used to list them on his site now he changed the site design and they aren't there. THose should answer many questions.

Here's a link to the wiring PDF
http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/E_STOP_N_SCHP.pdf

On each of the product pages at the bottom is a link to the old site.
It's says something like this:
"For more information, please visit this products webpage" the word webpage is the link.
Sometime the link is on the very first page and other time you have to click on the more info link.
Clear as mud, right?

Bob

Here's a link to the wiring PDF
http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/E_STOP_N_SCHP.pdf

On each of the product pages at the bottom is a link to the old site.
It's says something like this:
"For more information, please visit this products webpage" the word webpage is the link.
Sometime the link is on the very first page and other time you have to click on the more info link.
Clear as mud, right?

Bob

:confused: :rainfro:

:confused: :rainfro:

Brian,

Did I mess that up or does it kind of make sense? :)
I'm hoping it gets James to the PDF you were talking about.

How goes your machine?

Bob

I actually got that link by doing a search and it was in your thread I think ccsparky.

This link lists all of the Tech Docs http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/ but I couldn't make sense of anything from them concerning the newer C1 BOB.

I'll just have to Arturo and see if he has a solution. Thanks for the help.


James

***EDIT***

After looking at that link from the webpage, I think I got it figured out. I'll let you know if I can make it work and what I did. Thanks again guys.

Well, I think I've got the Charge Pump working (will need to do some more testing once the E-Stop is installed). Now I can't seem to get my router to turn on with the relay that I bought. Anyone else using the CNC4PC AC relay to turn their router on and off? The output light on the breakout board is lighting up which tells me the relay should be active, but the router never turns on. Any ideas?

TIA- James

Did you setup the relay in Mach 3?

I think I've got it setup in Mach3. On further inspection, it looks like my charge pump is not working, therefore leaving the BOB disabled. I have a feeling this is the problem. If I'm not able to get the charge pump to work, I'll just bypass it and see if I can get the relay to work.

Well, I think that the relay that I bought from Arturo is toast or won't handle the amps from the Hitachi Router. I had a solid state relay that I had collected some time back and forgot about. It works like a champ, no problems (it is in the last picture). Now I just need to get the charge pump working and I'll be set. I know why it is not currently working, in the second picture the scope shows that the output signal is about 1/2 of what it should be. Not sure what the deal with that is. It could possibly be the laptop as it is only a P3 750MHz running Mach3. I sent an email to Arturo to see what he thought.

I still need to install the limit switches that Gary brought over today. Maybe next week I'll get them all in. I still need to make the end pieces for the control box, mount the power supplies and fans and connect the motor wires.

Hopefully be back up and running by Monday or Tuesday, then I get to mill a little and play with the new airbrush.

The only downside to the solid state relay is that they do not draw much power for the forward biase so unless you have something to pull the voltage down it will stay on for a few seconds, I have an IGBT that will stay on for about 5 seconds when I turn off the power to the transformer.

Marm-

I've got a 10 ohm 10 watt resistor on the power supply (had to put a bigger load so that it would turn on, it's a switching supply) to that board so it drains the power pretty quickly once the switch is turned off. The router shuts off as soon as the power is switched off, I just tried it.

Well, I think I've got everything working that I've hooked up so far. The charge pump is up and running, and the relay is turning on the shop-vac and the router. I used the schematic that Arturo has for the charge pump. The first time I hooked it up though I had it work and couldn't get it to work. At first I thought it was the computer I was using until I got a newer one and it still wouldn't work. So I got to looking at the schematic again and noticed that I didn't quite have it hooked up right. Once I got that squared away it came right on when the momentary switch was hit.

I still need to add the limit & home switches along with an E-Stop. The only thing that I'm having a little trouble with now is the Z axis keeps stalling out. I'll make an adjustment, run it up and down a few times stopping and starting along the way and it will be fine, but put it to the wood and undoubtedly it will stall and bore deep into the material. I made an adjustment last night and was able to get all the way through the project without any problems. I'm wondering if I'm getting enough juice to the stepper or not. Maybe I should see if I can get a bigger stepper for that axis. I'll wait and see how this goes, but if it doesn't get better I'll get something a little more heavy duty.