I posted this on the Fusion site but figured I should also post it here. Give you an insite into the Fusion kit and my first impressions. This is my first CNC project and I have alot to learn still. I will hopefully post my progress so others can compare what direction I have taken to CNC my X2 mill. I believe the total package will be about $1720 when all is done. Then add an additional $150.00 for Mach 3. I may sell of all the spare parts I now have on hand and further reduce my costs.

Its a long post so here goes

X2 Fusion kit with preloaded ball screws, my first impressions and installation thoughts.

First I have a HF X2 mill with the little machine shops belt drive retrofit kit installed.

My first impressions out of the box, everything was intact and not damaged. Never having used ball screws I first started running the ball screw ball nuts up and down the shaft. I noticed varying degrees of side to side play from rock solid to loose fitting. I emailed Fusion and the reply was side to side play should not affect the performance of the screw. The Y axis was tight, the X axis was a little loose, and the Z axis was very loose. According to Home Shop CNC both pieces vary in dimensions from Nook. My assumption was that the preloaded Ball nuts were tighter than normal Ball Nuts? With this response and what I have read, I got started.

Sadly no instructions, even though I am mechanically inclined some procedures on the Z axis I wound up doing twice. The whole procedure took about 3 hours not including my mistakes. A DVD would be great here maybe someone could ask Swarfrat.com to whip one up for everyone, lol.

First the Z axis:

I removed the Z axis drive components that came with my HF X2 mill. Everything including the gear rack. I used the included HF column limit stop to keep the head from sliding down and crashing into the table. I also took off the tension arm screw (new style x2 mill) so the head can be moved up beyond the top of the column and down closer to the table. I loosened the gib screws so the head can move freely. This was my first mistake, once you mount the new Z axis ball nut block the gib screws are covered so you cannot adjust the Z axis gib screws again. I also realized that the Z axis limit stop gib lever is in line with the new ball screw. I found this to be an annoyance and it made it harder to set the kit in place (my experience). I also noticed that the large cap screw used on the inside of the column to attach the ball nut block was a tight fit for all 10MM hex wrenches I owned. I found an old 10mm shortie and cut of an additional ½ inch off in order to get it into the cap screw. The Z axis motor mount should be installed with the mills head very low to the table so you have clearance to drill and tap the top motor mounting plate. This is the only modification to the mill, two holes and they are above the old upper limit stop. So if you need to go backward (non CNC) it’s no damage done.

Z Axis procedure as I see it

1. Set the mills head at the midpoint of the column and set the Z axis limit block so the head cannot slide down.
2. Remove the upper limit stop bumper and screw; save the screw you will need it later.
3. Do not loosen any gib set screws and make sure they are property adjusted and locked down tight before you proceed any further.
4. Remove the outer screw from the new style spring tension arm and swing the arm upward. Hold the arm while doing this it’s under tension. I do not know if you will need to do anything with the long spring arm style support.
5. Remove all of the drive components from the mill (pinion drive assembly), its 4 cap screws, and the cover plate (2 Philips screws). Save the two shortest cap screws you will need these later to mount the new Z axis ball nut block. The whole assembly should slide out in one piece (it is not necessary to take the handle off to remove the pinion drive but you can unscrew the three arms afterwards for storage). You can also remove the pinion Rack it won’t be needed and all that grease is messy.
6. Carefully slide the head up and over the top of the column (not off of it) to expose about half of the back of the mills head, again set the Z axis limit stop in place. You may need to do this slowly in small steps if you are working alone. I found the gib very tight near the top and had to use a c clamp for the final 6 inches of movement.
7. With the new Z axis assembly move the ball nut block as far down as you can get it from the motor mount then start to attach the ball nut block. The large screw comes off and is inserted through the back of the head (which is now exposed) this is tightened with a 10mm hex wrench (see comments above). The two front screws are inserted (the two short cap screws you saved from the drive assembly) make sure the block is aligned with the frame of the head then tighten the two screws. Next tighten the big 10mm cap screw. The sequence here is unimportant just eye ball square.
8. Remove the two screws and nuts from the Z axis motor mount (if you haven’t done this already), and then slowly lower the head down so the spindle is just above the table and the Z axis motor mount is sitting on the top of the column supporting the mills head. The motor should be low enough so you can work on the three mounting holes. Again use your limit stop.
9. Insert the screw you saved from the upper column stop into the elongated center hole and carefully align the ball screw parallel with the right side of the column and tighten (you don’t want the ball screw cocked at an angle when you start drilling).
10. Now drill and tap or dill and secure the two provided screws. Use a center hole punch if you have one you don’t want these two holes too far off center. Check the alignment of the ball screw to the column before you tighten the last two screws. There is some play on all screws to make adjustments. Your done.


As I removed the Z axis kit the first time to fix my gib screw mistake I cursed myself for not reversing the limit block so the lever was on the left side of the column and out of the way of the ball screw. Maybe some day I’ll fix it, but you will need to move the mill head off the column to flip it and with my luck something else will be in the way.

The Y axis was next. First I looked at the paper tube and decided not to attempt to remove the nut from the back side of the screw. A smart move as I later discover this would have been the wrong way. The issue here is removing the lock nut on the Y axis motor mount, you need a small spanner and I had none that small. I found a small piece of aluminum and made one using my bandsaw and several files. I used a wooden vise to hold the ball screw while removing the lock nut. The assembly was uneventful except I had to use a ¼’ thick piece of rubber and a pair of vice grips to hold the Ball screw while getting the lock nut back on, on the mill.

The X Axis also required a spanner of another size (same spanner I made worked fine here). You also must remove the original shaft from the X axis bearing seat, a small Arbor press helped me out but is not necessary. Remove and clean both bearings from the bearing seat, clean and repack them with quality grease before reassembly. Notes: motor mount on the left of the table and the shaft extension on the right between the table and the original bearing seat. Again not really any need for detailed instructions

So far everything feels tight but I have not checked it with an indicator. I am still awaiting a 4 axis drive kit from Xylotec. I managed to secure a long T handle Hex wrench into one of the loose motor mounts so I can rotate the ball screws. So far it looks like a vast improvement.

What I didn’t like so far

No detailed instructions… Hopefully my post will help others.
The Z Axis ball nut block which covers the gib screws… I wouldn’t mind drilling a few extra holes so I don’t have to dissemble the z Axis to make gib adjustments down the road.
List of tools you should have on hand before you get the kit. Hey I thought I had every tool known to man except two small spanner wrenches. Most of the kit can be assembled with a set of metric hex wrenches.

Woodenspoke http://cncfusion.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Woodenspoke,

I just completed the conversion to CNC of my X2 also. Like you I too used the CNC ballscrew(3 axis ) kit and Xylotec 3 axis "ready kit". If you look at the CNC Fusion website you will find instructions with pictures for installation of their kits! Thanks for the write up just the same.

http://www.cncfusion.com/images/X2mounts/Assembly-BS.html


LAter,
Tim

Tim

Yes I read through the instructions on the web site. Very basic at best. For what you and I paid they could at least include a copy in the box? The pictures they provide along with their web instructions are not instructional pictures just pictures of the parts. Don't get me wrong I like the kit (so far), but I hate the fact that the excuse is "I am selling so many kits I cant really provide instructions"; well make the time or farm it out; it is your business.

When I received the Belt drive conversion kit the instruction where 4 pages long and overly detailed, and thats what should be provided.

I was not really trying to create an instructional manual even though it looks like it. It was susposed to be more if an insight into installing the kit. Hopefully someone who has never installed the kit will find it more enlightening.

I not putting down Fusion or the kit in fact I applaud them for their insight and providing what I see is really the only worthy kit in town. I just personally expected more for the price.

Lets see what Xylotex provides with their 4 axis kit?

Woodenspoke

I believe my Xylotec package(3 axis "Ready Kit" came with 2 pieces of paper. It was just about setting the voltages etc which was already done on the "Ready Kit".

Were on the Y axis was there a lock nut needing a spanner wrench? I remember the lock nut on the end of the X axis. I found that one of the spanners from my model airplane engines worked for it.

Later,
Tim

Tim

Yes it was a lock nut slightly larger than the X axis nut same type needs a spanner. The nut held the shaft tight against the bearings on the motor mount. The space available to get a spanner in there was tight about 3/8 inch (guesstimate).The lock nut is nice saves adjusting two nuts (original shaft). I checked the Fusion site and the lock nut is clearly pictured in the kit and there is one on all three axis in the kit.

Thanks for the heads up on the Xylotec. I ordered the 4 axis kit even though I don't have a rotary table yet. With 3 axis running I can make my own 4th axis mount.

I figured that there was little that needed to be done except mount the motors and program Mach3 for the setup. The hardest part I think will be working through Mach3. Artsoft has a very large manual I look forward to reading it.:eek:

Woodenspoke

Woodenspoke,

I was a complete newbie with all of this CNC stuff. I have had my X2 for a couple of years put really haven't used it much at all. Heck I didn't know what a ballscrew was till a couple of months ago! The more I read on the internet the more confused I became on what I needed to convert my mill. So back in September or October I bit the bullet and decided on the CNCFusion kit and then I "found" out about Xylotec and it was great for me with them having a package more or less ready to go. All I have to do was make an enclosure for the board and cooling fan and plug everything else up. I will say that I don't have any limit or homing switches on my machine as of yet. I plan to do so but it looks like I need a breakout board to mount seperate limit and home switchs to the Xylotec board. Again the more I read on the subject the more confused I get. But in the mean time with only the 267oz steppers if something went crazy and the machine crashed I do believe there is enough power to hurt to much. Plus while running I am right there with it and I have always made a "dry" run of everything I have made so far to make sure some setting wasn't off.
I printed out the Mach 3 manual and put it into a 3 ring binder. I much have read it a half dozen times before I even got my machine together. It was all Greek to me at the time. Reading it was one thing, really doing it was like "oh I see now" type of thing. Everyday it gets easier and easier.

Later,
Tim

Tim

I ordered the Xylotec complete kit, no need to make an enclosure it is truly plug and play. I plan on using this machine to do small production runs so the less time I spend on putting the machine together the better. I now have to re-tram the table again to see if everything is still in specs.

Right now I am trying to learn Solid Works, Not as bad as I thought using the tutorials.

I always learn faster when I am not trying to make something work in theory so I need the drives before I play with Mach3. I am going to set up the drives in my computer room and then check the program before I smash up the mill.

I have been milling over limit switches too. I am going to check the documentation with Xylotec when I get my kit later next week (it shipped today and I'm across the country).


Woodenspoke

I not putting down Fusion or the kit in fact I applaud them for their insight and providing what I see is really the only worthy kit in town. I just personally expected more for the price.

Woodenspoke

On what criteria did you base this statement on? I'm curious how one evaluates on kit from another without seeing/trying it? Also, I keep seeing information contrary to putting ball screws on the X and Y axises. Since you don't have your drivers yet so maybe Tim can provide his input.

Jay

On what criteria did you base this statement on? I'm curious how one evaluates one kit from another without seeing/trying it?

Jay

If you know of any other complete Kit with ball screws let everyone know, because I couldn't find any anywhere. I don't see how anyone can try or see every kit? I read the same reviews you have and made my decision based on what is available.

I base my statements on my limited experience. I can clearly see how tight the ball screws and nuts are. Where I could physically feel the X axis move (Runout), with the preloaded ball screws I cannot feel any movement. When you turn the ball screws, CW or CCW the table moves, not a few clicks later as was the case with the standard acme screws.

I went with Fusion because I wanted precision and I wanted a kit that was complete without having to do additional work to the mill. If I do have a runout problem it will be a problem for Fusion to figure out.

Woodenspoke

I know of only one other complete kit that are ball screw. www.kdntool.com kit is high dollar (in the $800-1100 range) having ground screws with preloaded nuts as options. However, Ron Steele and others have told me via email and their own posts that converting the X and Y to ballscrews will not make the machine much better over the stock ACME screws with the stock nut split.

My post came off a bit harsh, that wasn't my intent. I appreciate your input as much as anyone else that takes the time to provide their experience with the rest of us.

Jay

I went to the KDN tool site, I was there before, but I guess I had to dig deeper to see the kit. Other than the Z axis mounting it seems like a close match for the Fusion kit only a lot more money.

I wanted to keep my mill under $2000 which I have.

I don't see any mention of ground ball screws, just upgraded rolled ball screws? The standard screws are the same Nook ball screws sold with the Fusion kit.


Hint: to everyone selling X2 upgrades or any upgrade over the web: Get someone to make you a functional web site. I cant tell you how many times I have missed products or gave up because the site was so poorly designed.

You are right, I took precision to mean ground ... but he calls them precision rolled screws. I know what you mean about these websites though ... took me a while to figure out the KDN one. Have you received your Xylotex yet?

Jay

Jay

No not yet still waiting and it has been a week already. I have no idea why Xylotex ships the units out Parcel post? Knowing the post office I hope it arrives in one piece or arrives at all.

I have been working over my mill trying to get the machine trammed properly. I had ordered a swarfrat video on tramming thge mini mill. They use a set of 1,2,3 Blocks and parallels as the two surfaces to tram from. The Parallels are used as a flat surface on top of the blocks. They recommend not using the bed as a surface. I found my parallels not uniform in thickness so I used one block and parallel and moved it from side to side. The Y Axis was also way off and I had to shim up the front of the column by .004 in.

I have the indicator reading to about .0005 in a 2 inch circle about the center of the spindle and less than 1/2 that over the x axis. I hope this is good enough. I don't believe the bed is dead on and I'm not getting it precision ground until I can see any negative effects. From what I have read the fit and finish of each machine is a never a given.

Woodenspoke

I wonder how is it any different to use 123 blocks with parallels on top versus using the parallels directly on the table? I have also read of other using float glass on the table as the indicating surface. I am waiting to tram mine extensively until I complete the CNC conversion. I already know I'll have to disassemble it anyway :) Of course I'm still debating my choices and waiting for my funding to reach the spend point :D

Jay

It's surprising how long it took me to finally check the table for level. I have a dip in the center of about .001 in, or should I say both ends are bowed up. Anyway it doesn't look like a major issue. Maybe I will try and flatten it on my small granite surface plate using some sandpaper or maybe just ignore it until I cant any longer then have a shop grind it flat.

I received the Xylotex kit today. Thankfully in one piece. the kit is true plug and play, I just added some tags to each axis so I didn't have to remember connector colors. Got the motors to spin up using the Mach3 demo. I am still very confused on how to set the motor up for the steppers and the ball screw I have? I will read and re-read the sections in the Mach3 manual. lets see 5 tpi, 200 steps per revolution. 1/8th step setting... My head hurts.

Hopefully tomorrow I will be another step closer to machining something.

I had one thought about putting two sets screws in the column base to tram the y axis properly without shims.

Woodenspoke

Hi Woodenspoke,

I also bought the CNCFusion kit (just the motor mounts and Z axis to start, then finished upgrading to ballscrews last week). In Mach3, just set the tuning @ 8000 for all axis (remember to click the axis before you set it, and save axis after), click on velocity and accel, save, then go to the settings screen - axis calibration, to get an accurate tuning - quick and easy!

What did you set the acceleration to?

I did finally figured out the 8000 step number. 200 steps per revolution x 8 steps (Xylotex set at 1/8 micro steps or 8 steps per motor step) = 1600 steps per revolution, 1600 x 5 rotations per inch (ball screws are 5 full turns per inch) = 8000 steps per inch. (this is for everyone else who is going through the same process).

However I have not tuned the motor settings yet. The weird thing is two of the motors were going in the wrong direction so I made a change in the software port/pin configuration to reverse them. (Note: Read the engraved Blocks on the Fusion kit to make sure the motor is driving properly in the + or -direction on each axis).

I could have sworn the motors were turning the other way yesterday???

Tomorrow or the next day I will do the motor axis tuning. This is going to take awhile before I am ready to run some g-code.

Has anyone set up home and limit switches on their 4 axis Xylotex board, and how did that work out???

I know on the 3 axis board you cannot add additional inputs, you would need a separate breakout board. Its almost worth the extra few dollars to get the 4 axis board.

Woodenspoke

Yeah, the tuning can be a pain! I'm running some really small steppers (200 oz/in - to be upgraded to some triple stack 400+ soon!), and it seems like every time I have it set just right, I'll miss some steps during testing - a real pain! I also can't get the gibs as tight as I want and still get good speed with the current steppers.

I think I had to reverse my X and Z axis also.

I am pretty much in the same boat as you - I have been working on my X2 conversion (off and on) for about 1 1/2 yrs. I made my own motor mount and coupler for X and bought the mount and coupler for Y and the ballscrew/mount/coupler for Z from CNCFusion. I fought with my X axis coupler up until about Christmas when I said screw it, I'm buying myself a present - I went ahead and bought the ballscrew conversion and made a new mount for X (a 1" thick piece of aluminum, bandsaw, holesaw, drillbits, and a tap). I finished the conversion earlier this week. I ran a few test cuts (a rectangular pocket and a circular pocket) in Mach 3 - and can tell I need to check and find out where the backlash is coming from. I also need to adjust my gibs again. I haven't run any real g-code yet, as I haven't learned any software yet - just playing with the wizards. I haven't even registered it yet - although I am going to as soon as my abilities get to the point of being able to make a real part!

I printed out the Mach 3 manual at work the other night and put it in a binder - I will be reading it on our trip to Florida today (9 hrs). I did read something that caught my eye last night - you can use a regular Windows joystick for jogging! Now to find out some of the other hidden things about Mach. I can see that this is some great software at a really good price!


I still have to set up limits and an E-stop. I've been reading some on the subject, although I not to the point of really understanding. I can see the need for the breakout board - that's about as far as I have gotten!

Good luck
Matt

200oz-in are enough. Have a look at the first post on page 5 from Mariss:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22211&page=5

If you are missing steps it could be that your acceleration is set too high, noise/poor connection, or too much binding. This is what I have read ... I'll be joining the CNC X2 club in the next few weeks as my parts arrive. Also, you want a quick education of the immediate power of Mach3 .. .go watch their videos ... the Conversational wizards are awesome. I mean one can design a Nema motor mount with out any CAD ... all in MACH3. LazyCAM looks cool too.

BTW, the installation and introduction videos are a great FAQ for beginners (like me). I'm more of a visual learner, and the videos are high quality.

FWIW,
Jay

I believe the Xylotex 3 axis drive board has just as many inputs as the 4 axis. They both have a "built in breakout board" of sorts. We can hook up limits but not the "right" way without an aftermarket breakout board as there is not enough inputs on the Xylotex boards.

The Mach 3 videos are without question kickbutt! As you start using the software things start making sense. The videos provide that little extra "oh I see". Really the best way is to get yourself some scrap and start cutting. It's the first hump that it alittle hard to get over after that it gets easier.

LAter,
Tim

Hello,

I've got the Xylotex 4 axis "plug n Play" setup with Mach3 driving a x2 mill. I've got limit switches hooked up. Don't recall having any real problems setting up the switches. There is pretty good info on the Mach site and the Mach manual and as I recall on the Xylotec site as well.

If you have specific questions just let me know and I'll try to respond.

Pat

Tim. I just read the Xylotex site a few days ago and it stated that only the 4 Axis board had breakout pins for the input section? My thought is pay $30 more now or pay $50 for an additional breakout board, plus you have the fourth axis option down the road, or as a backup axis if something does go wrong (wishful thinking that the rest of the board would survive).

Patveth: How about a description of how you set up your limit and home switches on the Xylotex board for all us newbies out here.

FYI: I'm setting up this mill and fixing up an old Altas lathe to expand my guitar making (luthier) hobby and Luthier tool making hobby. I have been a woodworker for a long time and It's about time I expanded my skills. A CNC router is next but thats another project.


Here is todays X2 Mill update:

I finished setting up the motors and backlash today. Took a good solid hour + to get everything to my satisfaction.

First the tuning. I have only a .0005 indicator at this time which I believe was a little tight for setup (a new .001, 1 inch travel, indicator is on its way). I would have liked to see longer table movements. The setup went well and was uneventful. I found the Z axis a little temper mental and I just gave it my best. I set the jog to under 10% so the tables moved slowly. Note make sure you move the table passed your zero mark and come back to it to compensate for any backlash on each run.

The backlash was also uneventful but I will describe my method. First bring up the backlash dialog and check use backlash adjustment. I set the jog to a .001 step movement, which is two ticks on my indicator. I set the indicator on zero and then started moving the table. When you reverse direction you will notice that as you press the jog button the indicator does not move for several button presses. Count the times you press the button until the indicator does move because this is your runout. However to be more accurate once the indicator does move it may not make a full .001 movement, take the distance the indicator needs to move to finish the .001 and add that to your runout.

Example: I move the axis in the + direction making sure my indicator is going a full .001 in distance for each jog button press (tune your motor first). I stop and move the table in the opposite direction -. One press of the jog button no movement, two no movement, three no movement, fourth press movement. You now can add 4 x .001 or .004 runout. But the indicator only went 3/4 of the way to the next .001 mark on the fourth press. You add the distance the indicator dial still needs to travel, to your runout number. In this case its .00025 for a total of .0042 or .0043 (rounding down).

I hope this sounds right.

To check my numbers and runout I ran the table back and fourth in .03 in increments or the full rotation of my indicator. Make sure the backlash check box is checked for the final run through. My indicator would move slightly off zero about .00025 or less on some rotations but stayed within the zero on my indicator, for more than ten reps of reversing direction .03 in.

Feel free to comment on my methodology

The motors were running in the right direction today so I guess I had my eyes closed during the first run through. I wonder why they were not all wired the same, HMMM???

My next process is set up the table size and limits and try cutting something using the wizards. My choice is to mill (not drill) a hole. This should tell me if my setup is on or off. I also need to look into limit and home position switches.

Woodenspoke

Woodenspoke,

The 3 and 4 axis board both have the same I/O pin header and the Xylotex site says both have the "built in breakout board". While we can hook up limit switches(in series) there is not enough to do home switches thus the need for a seperate breakout board. All from what I have read we really need to have one that is optoisolated from the main board to prevent the magic smoke!

http://www.solsylva.com/cnc/xylotexdrive.html
This link shows a simple series limit switch hookup.

LAter,
Tim

Tim

I went back to the Xylotex site and couldn't find where I read that. But I did see that the 3 axis board does have the input functions as you correctly stated. I may have found an older page or document in my quest for more information on installing limit and home switches.

I am thinking of just going with a opto-isolator breakout board just to have something between the computer and the Xylotex box.

I am looking at the CNC4PC breakout board not that I want to spend another $100 for limit switches and such. http://www.cnc4pc.com/Parallel_Port_Interface_Card.htm

I'm still playing with everything right now. I need to work through a design I have to get final output for Mach3. Then I will play some more. The only issue is just wasting stock if the programming is wrong. I have some PVC sheet to waste instead of aluminum.

Woodenspoke

You might look at the CandCNC mini-IO-2 breakout board. It comes with a header for direct connection to a xylotex board. I am not using it with xylotex but it is working fine for me and costs about $64.

http://www.candcnc.com/Mini-IOProductsChart.htm

Alan

I did look at that link, but I think that I want to have the breakout board in a separate box and separate PSU for complete isolation. I did like the controller, real cool. Someone here did mention using a joystick to jog Mach3?

I have the Xylotex kit and I would have to break open the box to adapt the CandCNC board inside the housing.

I have to find out about using resistors in the switch setups. I have seen about a dozen indications but no real solid directions or reason when and how. I will email CNC4PC today to find out the wiring with their boards and switches.

Woodenspoke

CandCNC has a board that plugs directly into the xylotex board, and that plugs into another board that you can locate at your machine, plug your limits and homes into there, and you are so money you won't even know it.

I have to find out about using resistors in the switch setups. I have seen about a dozen indications but no real solid directions or reason when and how.

Woodenspoke

I too have been reading the Mach3 user manual. The resistors you are referring to are called pull-up resistors. They force a known voltage to be seen on the input line as long as the switches are not triggered. This is called normally closed. In this case since the other side of the switches is connected to ground (zero potential) then the input sees a logic 0 if all is well. If either switch opens, then 5V is seen at the input for that set of switches.

Section 4.6 of the Mach3 Mill guide covers this. Per figure 4.7 below. The home and the negative limit switches can share an input. This means you'll need 6 switches and 6 pull-up resistors if you have 1 for each positive axis limit and 1 for each home/negative axis limit (using Machs nomenclature).

But, you only have 5 inputs if you have a single parallel port. Well, what I plan to do is have each set of switches be on one signal. So I will only need 3 inputs. Again, look at the diagram below. Now I only need 3 pull-ups for the 6 switches.

Note: you will want to run the switch leads separate from the motor leads and possibly use shielded cable (cat6 is shielded) with the shield tied to ground on the controller side (only on the controller side).

Hope this helps,
Jay

***One final note for those that have the HobbyCNC board like I do. The 5 input lines already have 10ohm pull-ups, and outputs are available on the same terminal block.

I read and many other posts and saw diagrams without pull up resistors, so my newbie question is this

In the diagram if the input to Mach is lets say P13 and the 0 volts is common GND, where are you pulling the +5 volts from on the board?

Are you putting the resistor between +5 volts and P13 terminal and then wiring the switches out from the P13 terminal to GND? I hope this makes sense.


I also read that you can wire all the limit and home switches in series and use only 2 inputs. Still need six switches though.

Woodenspoke

I read and many other posts and saw diagrams without pull up resistors, so my newbie question is this

In the diagram if the input to Mach is lets say P13 and the 0 volts is common GND, where are you pulling the +5 volts from on the board?

Are you putting the resistor between +5 volts and P13 terminal and then wiring the switches out from the P13 terminal to GND? I hope this makes sense.[quote]

Yes. Your board should have some sort of 5V. I checked the datasheet for the Xylotex 4-axis. On the last line of page 7 "The GND & Vcc (+5VDC) available on the right hand side of the board can be used to pull limit inputs high through a 10K resistor. It is not intended to drive other devices." There is an image for reference here: http://www.xylotex.com/PDFS.htm

See my example below

[quote]
I also read that you can wire all the limit and home switches in series and use only 2 inputs. Still need six switches though.

Woodenspoke

Yes you can do this, but you lose the ability to home each axis.


Jay

Ok, cleaned up the diagram a bit, shouldn't be any confusion. The 10K resistor goes from Vcc to P13. Then the signal wire goes from P13 to the first switch's NC (normally closed) connection. Then you run a wire from the common connection of switch1 to the NC on switch 2. Finally, from the common of switch 2 to GND. Either GND will work as they are both connected to each other.

If you wish to only have one limit but 6 switches, just keep daisy chaining them with links like the red wire in my diagram.

Jay

Edit: There are two voltages present on the board. Vbb and Vcc. Do not use Vbb that's the motor voltage. Vcc is what you need/want. Sorry if this seems like a lame warning but I don't want anyone to take it for granted. Also, since I'm not sure how the board is designed, do not use the GND next to the Vbb.

FWIW

Jay

Great diagram Thanks. It does look like P13 for the Resistor.

Armed with your enlightening posts I rechecked the CNC4PC site and finally understood "all inputs are provided with pull-down resistors", so the switches can be wired directly between p ** and Gnd. This is where I got confused.

Thanks again. Now it's time to worry about something else on this project. I think I'll go cut a circle or something.

Woodenspoke

Armed with your enlightening posts I rechecked the CNC4PC site and finally understood "all inputs are provided with pull-down resistors", so the switches can be wired directly between p ** and Gnd. This is where I got confused.

They can use pull-down resistors because they are not depending on the parallel port to supply the current (aka source the current). In a series circuit, it doesn't matter if you connect the resistor to Vcc or GND. The logic will remain the same. In this instance you don't need to provide the resistor portion of the circuit since it's integral to the board layout. Same circuit still applies sans the resistor.

Glad I was able to help.

Jay

Guys....

That is where I get alittle lost....with the electronics talk...logic...huh....Vcc..Vbb...what....... I understand the machine and the machanics of it all but I wish I took an extra electronics course!!

I understand about wiring the limits in series because of lack of alot of input pins and have no problem with that. It's my understanding that there is not enough inputs for 3 seperate home switches on the stock Xylotex board whether it's the 3 or 4 axis correct. Thus the need for a seperate breakout board.

With the lower power of my 267oz steppers I am not to worried about hurting anything in case something went amuck it's the home switches I really wish I had right now.

LAter,
Tim

LAter,
Tim

I understand about wiring the limits in series because of lack of alot of input pins and have no problem with that. It's my understanding that there is not enough inputs for 3 separate home switches on the stock Xylotex board whether it's the 3 or 4 axis correct. Thus the need for a seperate breakout board.
Allow me to generalize your statement. There are only 5 inputs available on the first parallel port on any driver board. You only need a separate board is you need/want to have a dedicated input for each switch or have the home switch separate from the limit switches. The only reason I could think that would be the case is that home would be at a position other than the negative limits.

With the lower power of my 267oz steppers I am not to worried about hurting anything in case something went amuck it's the home switches I really wish I had right now.

So what is stopping you? Just use some simple micro switches (put them in ziploc bags if you are worried about them getting wet) and wire them like the diagram leaving out the second switch. then just configure Mach3 according to your inputs. Be sure that they have NC contacts.

Jay

Woodenspoke,

I was the one that mentioned the joystick for jogging. I tried it today. I used a USB gaming joystick I've had for a few years. Once I got the joystick enabled and set up. There were a few things that I liked and disliked about the function of the joystick. One thing that I can't figure out - sometimes the Y axis won't move until you hit the reset button (even if it's not flashing). Maybe that's got something to do with it being a USB stick? My stick has a Z axis motion if you twist the grip, but Mach3 doesn't have a setting for the Z axis movement - that would be a nice feature even if you had to use the slider switch. With my stick, you cannot move both axis' at the same time - it would be faster if you could. I did like that I could stand right in front of the mill and control it. I like how you can jog really slow for fine tuning, or wide open to get to the other side of your stock. This info is only based on about 5 minutes of playing with it, so take for what it's worth.

Matt

Todays Project

Mach Driver issues. The laptop I was using made the machine sound like it was going to fall apart. I thought the mill should sound a lot smoother than tit was. I ran the driver test and the signal was all over the place, Then it crashed while running the driver test after I started making system changes.

I finally wiped out the installation and followed the Mach3 trouble shooting guide on setting up windows for Mach3. I found the text in some obscure place on the Mach3 site.

The driver is acting somewhat steady. Before it was all over the place. I now have to set up the mill again, ugh. I am still getting some spikes greater than 1/4" every few seconds (I wish this 1/4" theory was more specific) but the signal is staying in the 24,000 range. Again I don't know what is an acceptable margin. I will just have to setup again and see if the mill is running smoothly without loosing steps.

The laptop is now almost completely disabled except for basic system functions and Mach3. I may have to look for another machine since this is my good laptop. A Dell 6000.

Woodenspoke

Most everything I have read says to stay away from laptops. I can't remember the reasons though. I picked up an eMachines 3.2Ghz(now made by Gateway) from BestBuy just to run my mill. It was only about $650 with a 20 inch flatscreen.

LAter,
Tim

I had zero luck running a laptop. I have heard the there are some notebooks that don't give 5vdc to there pcmcia port. Therein lies the problem. Some people run it well from a laptop, lucky ********.

Todays Update

Wiping out the computer fixed all the noise. Runs at a higher speed and now sounds like the videos on the Fusion site. So if your Xylotex looks like its having problems moving the tables at 30ips its probably a signal issue. I set the motors at 60 ipm, looks good and sounds good.

I ran a circle cutting wizard without any additional setup other than the standard Xylotex motor settings (no motor tuning and no backlash adjustments) and the circles came out round and almost to size (only a few hundreds off). I am going to wait till my new indicator arrives before I tune the motors and set backlash.

In response to laptops, first my Dell has no parallel port, most new laptops don't. I looked on other sites and found the Trans Digital Universal parallel port PCMCIA card. It was tested by other users with Mach3 and outputs a true 5v signal. Its $95.00 which is a lot less than a new computer. Its a good way to utilize and old laptop. However I probably will put together a small format desktop to run the machine as Tim has suggested. I don't want to sacrifice my portable, its my life line when I travel. Another temporary solution foe me is to install a second operating system and dual boot, that way I still can use the laptop as a full featured machine.

http://www.transdigital.net/

I am still milling about the isolated Breakout board. I emailed the CNC4PC guy and no response after 4 days?? Whats with that. I think it could be an indication of how he supports his product. I will send him another email today and see what happens.

Woodenspoke

Today I have had no problems with the Xylotex, still just playing with the wizards in Mach3.

Set up all the motors and backlash. The worst was the x axis at .005 BL which is pretty good I would say.

I tried drilling some 1 " 1018 steel with the CNC and found it not as easy going as it was without the motors. Jogging z at 1% of full. If I am missing something please let me know.

I sent another email to CNC4PC and still no answer. For me that means no sale because there is no support.

I emailed CandCNC, the breakout board suggested by Tim, about their mini I/O 2 board and got a reply the next day. I am still deciding on adding another board but I am leaning in that direction. The only thing I didn't like about the CandCNC is the outputs are not isolated, but the outputs are. On the positive side its self powered, I guess all you need is a power cord and a switch. It also comes with a free charge pump that ensures that you don't drive the Stepper board unless Mach3 is in control. It is expandable for a second DB25 port and other options. You can hook up three separate home switches, e stop and all limit switches (in series). Thats 5 inputs.

Woodenspoke

Woodenspoke,

I use the fully assembled Mini-IO 2 with both ports AND the MPG-02A w/20 buttons. I actually have two of the "boxes" and move the MPG accessory between the two (hard for me to operate two pieces of CNC machinery at the same when on is in the garage and one is in the basement workshop).

My garage setup is a DIY CNC Router (Joe's 2006R2) using Xylotex (the 4 axis board but with only 3 425 motors). I also use their 24V power supply.

In my workshop is a Harbor Freight X2 with CNC mods but with a Camtronics servo setup. The CandCNC Mini-IO 2 front ends the servo controllers (4 Gecko 340's).

I could not be happier.

On the opto-isolation - everything that should be isolated IS with the CandCNC Mini-IO. I have over 30 years of EE experience and three advanced degrees - I looked hard.

Regards,
George

Sounds like a whole hearted thumbs up for CandCNC.

Thanks George

Today I ordered the Mini i/o 2, the i/o case, and the Step and Dir indicator board from CandCNC. I probably spent more than I wanted but I feel it will be worth it to have some isolation. The case makes the installation a breeze. If I need to add on later hopefully they will still be in business. Plus now I will have a pretty set of $18 blinking lights, oh joy.

I finally opened the Xylotex case and I was not impressed. Everything was secured with glue. If the Mini i/o box could hold the Xylotex power supply I would move everything in there but it doesn't. I can only hope my cold shop does not cause glue separation. I also found one of the heat sinks loose but not off the board so I suggest you check the inside of your case before you power it up for the first time. Screws and a mounting plate would have been nice. I guess its another project for a rainy day.

I also ordered a set of mini moisture sealed home and limit switches on eBay and expect them here soon. I went for button actuated rather than using an arm. I am going to use the x and y axis Gib locking screw holes to mount some sort of actuator bar for limit and home switches. My idea is the bar spans the length of the Gib screws and casting. I will take some pictures of the completed setup and post it soon.

FYI: I removed the Z axis torsion bar after determining it was useless with the CNC conversion. The Ball drive is more than adequate to move the head. I am collecting quite a bit of X2 parts now.


Woodenspoke

I ordered one for my laptop, however once it shipped, he told me it wouldn't work on a dell insperion.

Please note:
The Trans PC Card - Universal Parallel Port
for proper operation requires Notebook with fully
functional PCMCIA slot according the PCMCIA 2.1
standard with support of both voltages 3.3 and 5.0 Volt.
Therefore Dell Inspiron and some HP zd8xxx machines
which supply to the PCMCIA slot only 3.3 volts will not work properly.
Standard parallel port and parallel devices operate at 5 Volts.
All other brand machines are OK.

Oh no! We suck again!

I do have an Inspiron 6000 but it works fine, no lost steps or driver issues. I didn't think to check if the PCMCIA slot was running at least the 2.1 or 3.0 standard but it should be.

I guess it also depends on what Inspiron model you have. I will be changing it out someday for a compact desktop but not now.

Woodenspoke

that's good to hear. I will give it a try tomorrow.

Todays update


I finally got tired of the spindle's, speed changing gear noise. Since I installed the belt drive kit from Little Machine Shop I have debated whether to remove the internal speed control gears which was an option.

Today I pulled off the head and stripped out everything, except the spindle and two bearings. A lot of holes in my X2 now; its starting to look like swiss cheese. Took about an hour but I removed all that noise. The inside gears were all plastic another weak point on the X2. I just wish I had a large enough arbor press to do the spindle job, would have saved a little time. I also tightened up the z axis Gib's while I had the fusion kit removed. With all the testing it had loosened up a little.

The x2 has certainly had a lot of pieces removed. My only regret is a set of axis hand cranks. Some times you just don't really want to turn on all that equipment just to move an axis a few inches. I have not found a hand wheel with a 1/4 in center hole, anyone have any suppliers?

Still awaiting my CandCNC mini i/o 2 and parts. I have been working on the home and limit switches but it has been slow going so far. Still experimenting with wire harnesses for the x axis.

Woodenspoke

Todays update


The x2 has certainly had a lot of pieces removed. My only regret is a set of axis hand cranks. Some times you just don't really want to turn on all that equipment just to move an axis a few inches. I have not found a hand wheel with a 1/4 in center hole, anyone have any suppliers?


Woodenspoke

Try these people:

http://www.valtrainc.com/

I just bought some balanced cranks from them for my (non-CNC) X-2 - very nicely made. You could always turn a simple sleeve to take the 1/4" to whatever their standard bore is.

Pretorien

you can always get them from mcmaster carr.

When i had a sherline with xylotex conversion, i would notice movement in the other steppers when I would crank one. I could see a light on the board come on as a result. Was this normal? or do you have to unplug the steppers to use them in manual mode?