We are researching the purchase of a 5-axis machine. I'm fishing here for anything positive or negative regarding 5 axis machines and/or machining.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

I have lots of cnc machines (23) but no 5 axis machines.
Unless you have a need for 5 axis and have programers and setup people that are familiar with 5 axis and jobs that must be done on 5 axis I would be shy of them. most people I know with them
are not realy happy about the costs of them.

I have extensive experience w/ set-ups on 5-axis mills
its all about the programming. If you got a good programmer
(exper'd w/ 5axis) thats most of your battle.
They are by nature not very strong machines, if you can
tool it up right a 4-axis horz. is IMO the way to go.
You can always add a rotary table to achieve your 5th.
If you need anymore input e-mail me, i'd be happy to help.
Peace:D :D

Hi 9566317,

We have 3 axis machines too. We do need 5 axis as most of our jobs warrant it. We have multiple set-up on pretty much every job we cut, and compound angle holes too. Right now we do 3+2 programming using an angled picker-head, but this obviously has limitations. Not being able to set the head accurately enough prevents us from drilling with it. As for the cost, we are prepared to deal with that.

Hi Hardmill,

We currently are familiar with positional (3+2) programming as I mentioned above. This should be able to get us by to start with, right? The continuous 5-axis programming could be figured out later. Realistically, positional 5-axis would probably be all we ever need. I'll look into the 4 axis option as you suggested.

Thanks

Dan

IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE A 4TH AXIS , MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE THAT HAS A LOCKING BRAKE .NOT JUST AN INDEXER (LIKE A HAAS, YES CHEAP, BUT WILL WORK)THIS IS A FAR MORE ACCURATE AND RIGID SET-UP, AND WILL REPEAT. JUST KEEP YOUR BACKLASH CONSISTENT.

Thanks Chad. We have been looking at the Haas trunion tables. They would work well for detail work, but not suitable for assemblies (size and weight limitations). Ideally we would like to be able to assemble our raw blocks on the base and cut the whole thing , including undercuts and compound holes, all from a common pick-up.

To get an idea of what I'm referring to, check out some of our fixtures.

http://www.avgauge.com/photopage.html

Dan

HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE DECKLE-MAHO MACHINES THEY LOOK LIKE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.I AHVE REEARCHED THEM A LITTLE, AND THEY SEEM TO BE THE CAT'S ASS. CHECK OUT THEIR WEB SITE.
http://www.deckel-maho.de/

Hi Chad,

Yes we have looked at these. They seem to be great machines. The size we are looking for will run us $1,200,000 Canadian. We're keeping it as an option, but hoping to find something closer to $750,000. We may be heading up to Toronto Ont. this week to see a demo.
Have you ever heard of Breton? We looked at a Breton Matrix 800K16 yesterday. Looks pretty impressive for around the price we are looking at.

Dan

I can imagine how much a person would need top notch software to use 5 axis. What would you use?

WorkNc. Currently it has 3+2 capability, but continuous 5-axis should be available in a few months. I was talking to someone yesterday who is beta testing the new 5-axis capabilities of WorkNc and they were quite impressed. Since we will be getting it at no additional charge (because we pay our annual maintainence fee) I don't intend to look at anything else.

Dan

Hey dan
You may want the 4axis route and adding yourself
a 5th to it. It should not only be cheaper but you'll
get a much stronger machine. If you like i have contacts
w/ a couple machine tool disttibutors.

Hi Steve,

I'll take any info you can give me. Feel free to e-mail me at dan@avgauge.com

Thanks

Dan

Has anybody seen the Tri-tech 5-axis head in use? Check it out at www.5-axis.com

This seems like it may be a relatively inexpensive way to "get our feet wet" in 5-axis machining.

Any comments?

Thanks

Dan

Dan-
I've got a Deckel like in the picture above. Bought it used from DMG, Chicago and got it for a great price. Still learning how to use it after a year in my shop. It's a race car, a bit finicky once in a while. Because of the goofy table you loose a lot of travel. If your using more than 3 axies you have to figure on a workpiece no bigger than your Y axis travel, not X axis.
Jim
<www.picopascal.com>

Wow, a lot has happened since I inquired about the Tri-tech head.

We purchased one in June 2003. We had quite a hard time getting it to repeat accurately. After a few months of testing, and swapping it for another head (due to excessive spindle play) we now can drill and ream holes routinely within .003" and often within .002". That's the good news. The bad news is that the gears inside have broken 5 times, requiring us to ship it back to California each time. It generally takes a week to ship there, have it fixed, and shipped back. We have had it returned only to break again 2 hours later. I wouldn't recommend it for drilling anything over 1/2" in steel, or 5/8" in alum. I would also steer clear of any deep reaming, as it has broken twice when retracting the reamer out of the hole.

We have a local company that deals with high speed spindles looking into adding a shear pin to prevent these continual problems.

We just purchased a Hermle C800U HSM 5-axis machine in January. We looked at the DMG 70 evolution, but the Hermle's ability to rotate 220° with the trunion was the deciding factor. We also had some issues with the president of DMG Canada, that made us lean toward the Hermle.

As for Worknc, we looked at the 5-axis programming coming up in V16, and promptly bought a couple seats of PowerMill.

Dan

Hi Dan, I'm a CNC programmer/operator and have been doing 3 axis work for a long time. I am interested in learning how to program 5 axis. Did you have to send your guys for training? If so where did you send them. I'd be interested in taking a programming course if there is something available. I have yet to find anywhere in toronto that offers this. Any ideas?

Did you take a look at the Fidia line of 5 axis CNC's? I saw them at the tooling show and they looked better than any of the other 5 axis' there.

We looked at the Fidia machines, but they could not guarantee the accuracies we are looking for.

As for 5-axis programming with PowerMill, we are taking training right at Delcam's North American headquarters, which fortunately for us, is right here in Windsor Ontario. I haven't taken the training yet, but reading thru the on-line help makes it pretty easy to figure out.

As for 5-axis drilling, we have been doing it since last summer, using a program I wrote that works with Rhino.

I will attempt to attach a jpg of the UI so you can get an idea of how easy it is to use.

Dan

Thx Dan, do you know of any place to purchase used machinery in southern Ontario?

Sorry, but I have no idea.

Dan

Dan,
My name is John Blankenship and have been working in the aerospace ind. for over 19 yrs. 5 axis is the way to go !!
I use Unigraphics for programming and there is nothing that can come close to it in the 5 axis world !!
I do nothing but program and set-up 5axis machines and I do it very well.
If you ever need help with programming let me know.
I have been doing it on the side for about 5 yrs now and have a very large and growing customer base.

JBLANKSHIP@NETZERO.COM

Dan B My experience with 5-axis was milling gas turbine blades for power generation. At that time the Mahoe Deckel Hermle type 5-axis mills were the most cost effective with Hermle providing the best co-operation etc. A close second to Hermle was Bostomatic, too close to tell. At the time, the best programming for true 5-axis simultaneous milling was A.S.Thomas from Boston. They have an exceptional history.

Wow, this is an old thread!

We have been doing 5-axis for sometime now, and we have purchased another Hermle.

Dan

Someone asked how much for top end 5 axis software - one company I work at purchased Espirit, primarily for 4+1 ( not even FULL five axis) Haas machines - upper $20k per seat. Close to 30K is probably more like it.
Over a year and a half, and just now getting the posts and training working!
I have ran both Haas and Deckos, hands down the Decko is a much better machine in my opinion. Haas has the friendlier control by far though. It would depend on the particular application and how much of what can you "live with"?
Best of Luck!
MarkT.

Dan B I retired & started my own consulting co. (can't do nothing, gotta keep nose in it) One project was 8-axis simoultaneous gear hobber. (I only do mechanical part). I'm working on a different one now. If you want some really good info on multi-axis machining you prob. can contact Wolfram Hermle through Hermle mach. co. I believe he still has office of his own co. in Nurnberg.

Thanks for the tip, but it won't be necessary. This thread was started 3 years ago, and we are now quite proficient at 5-axis.

Dan

DanB.

Are you still using the tri tech head? If so are you having the same breakage issues. I'm interested in this option to do some light face milling on some large diameter shafts. Using this option lets me take a 1600 lbs rotary table off my table.

Do you have any experience doing any 3/8" or 1/2" end milling with your head? And if so what is your depth of cut?

Thanks.

What material are you planning to cut? What kind of tolerances do you need to hold?

We still use our TT head everyday, and we do use 1/2" endmills. We only do so in aluminum and only when accuracy is not that important. I wouldn't count on anything consistently better than ±.005". As for helical milling with it, if you mount the head on a Fadal, forget about it. The Fadal can't coordinate all 3 axis good enough to get round holes.

Dan

We commonly cut normalized 1045. And the most of our tolerances are right at +-.005. I'm alittle concerned about your experience with the head breaking while drilling. Is this a common failure mode for you?

I would like to use this to drill .188 and .250 holes to at depth ranging from 3 to 4 inches.

You shouldn't have any problems with those sizes. The breakage during drilling is really more of an issue when reaming deep holes. The Fadal can't coordinate all 3 axis when the reamer is retracting out of the hole, so the reamer binds. This hasn't happened in a long time.

We drill in steel with our head up to 1/2".

I should mention that the latest TT heads are much more robust (and accurate)
then our older version.

Dan