Correct Pay?? [Archive] - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!

j-radkemachine

11-29-2006, 02:36 PM

I'M SURE MOST EVERYONE OUT THERE FEELS UNDERPAID...
I HAVE BEEN WORKIN W/ & AROUND CNC MACHINES SINCE I WAS 12 YEARS OLD. ( MY FATHER OWNS A SHOP )
I AM IN CHARGE OF :
PROCESSING ORDERS ( P.O.'S )
ORDERING MAT'L / CASTINGS
ORDERING TOOLS & SUPPLIES ( SHOP , OFFICE , ALL OF IT )
SCHEDULE
SHIPPING ( OUTGOING & REC. ) - ( PAPERWORK , FORKLIFT , ETC. )
PRINTING OUT OPERATION SHEETS FOR EVERY JOB
INSPECTION - ( FLOOR , IN OFFICE , FINALS , ETC. )
& WHEN THERE'S A PROBLEM ... I JUST ADJUST OFFSETS MYSELF IF THE OPERATOR IS IGNORANT IN THAT AREA... OR WORK W/ THE OPERATOR ON LOADING PARTS INTO A FIXTURE THE CORRECT WAY..
I LOG EVERY SINGLE BIT OF INFORMATION THAT NEEDS TO BE LOGGED...
( REC. REPORTS , P.O.'S , TOOLS , ETC. ETC. )

I HELP OUT W/ SET-UPS , FIXTURING , PROGRAMMING , ETC.
I BASICALLY DO THE JOB OF ABOUT 3 or 4 EMPLOYEES...

I DON'T THINK THAT OUR SHOP IS TOO SMALL EITHER...
ABOUT 25 EMPLOYEES ... & 2 SHIFTS!!!

SO... MY QUESTION IS ...
TO ALL OF YOU EMPLOYERS OUT THERE... OR ANYONE IN MY SHOES ...
WHAT IS MY POSITION "GO TO GUY" WORTH???
BECAUSE I FEEL THAT I'M WAY UNDERPAID...

OH DID I MENTION THAT BEFORE I STARTED BACK HERE GOIN ON 2 YEARS AGO... THEY STILL DID EVERYTHING W/ PEN & SPIRAL NOTEBOOK...
SINCE THEN I HAVE DEVISED A METHOD TO KEEP TRACK OF !!EVERYTHING!! INCLUDING OUR OVER 3,000 PARTS IN OUR SYSTEM...

LASTLY .... I'M NOT TRYING TO COME ACROSS AS CONCEITED... JUST NEEDED TO EXPLAIN THAT I DO MOST OF THE DUTIES... EXCLUDING QUOTE JOBS , DO PAYROLL , PAY BILLS , & PUSH THE GREEN BUTTON... ( WHICH I DO SOMETIMES )

THANKS FOR ANY FEEDBACK,

UNDERPAID IN TEXAS

thkoutsidthebox

11-29-2006, 02:52 PM

Im happy with my pay...probably overpaid :eek:, but still manage to spend all my money before getting paid again. However, Im not happy with my job, and can't wait to get out of it :( .....money ain't everything, its just one more thing. Sorry I can't offer any more helpful advice.

j-radkemachine

11-29-2006, 03:20 PM

Yeah I Hear Ya...
I Was Hired To Do Inspection. Period .

Now I Do All This ****.... & Don't Make Any More For It...

AND I AM HAPPY W/ MY JOB DUTIES... JUST DON'T FEEL THAT I AM PAID ENOUGH FOR IT

HuFlungDung

11-29-2006, 03:26 PM

Book off sick for a while and see if the place goes to hell. If it does, then ask for a raise :)

j-radkemachine

11-29-2006, 03:37 PM

thought of that .... just don't have it in me..... YET !!!

Runner4404spd

11-29-2006, 03:46 PM

heck be thankful you have a job. i'm sure we all feel underpaid for what we do, but up here in michigan people are counting the days until they need to look for another job.

j-radkemachine

11-29-2006, 04:21 PM

Yea.. I Hear Ya. It Has Been A Slow Year For Us Too.
Hopefully '07 Will Be Much Better!!!
Thanx

pp-TG

11-29-2006, 04:38 PM

heck be thankful you have a job. i'm sure we all feel underpaid for what we do, but up here in michigan people are counting the days until they need to look for another job.

where in mi are you from upper or lower?

Runner4404spd

11-29-2006, 05:48 PM

i am in lower michigan. around the detroit area. this area was hit pretty hard when the automotives took a turn for the worse.

Dar

11-29-2006, 06:20 PM

runner4404spd
im in Flint.
Dar

pp-TG

11-29-2006, 07:35 PM

i am in lower michigan. around the detroit area. this area was hit pretty hard when the automotives took a turn for the worse.

i am in upper and its no better up here i think it is michigan all together(chair) .

tmaker

11-29-2006, 08:12 PM

I am in Indy,have more work than I can do in 8 hours, no overtime. Took off last week for deer hunting, the place went to **** and still no raise or thanks.

Bluesman

11-30-2006, 10:02 AM

I am in Indy,have more work than I can do in 8 hours, no overtime. Took off last week for deer hunting, the place went to **** and still no raise or thanks.

Wow what a bunch of whiners, You are worth excactly what you are getting paid PERIOD. When you took the job you agreed on X for pay. If you thought you were worth more you should have got it going in. There is way to much work out there. Post your resume and start looking for a new job.
I make 60 a year and I know that there are places out there that will pay me more. I turned down 68 a year just 2 months ago. (Did not want to move).
And calling in sick for a week is not the answer either that just makes you a schmuck. You are paid to do a job, You agreed on the pay you are getting. So do your job and shut up. If you think you are being treated unfair FIND A NEW JOB

Bluesman

pkaiser

11-30-2006, 10:46 AM

First you need to be happy at your job to advance.
Second do you want to be a toolmaker or a purchasing agent? Don't get me wrong, I also do all the things you listed but that's after the fact that I'm a journeyman toolmaker and can make anything they throw my way...Next comes running the shop!

My raises have been better than I would have even asked for...need I say more. My advancements have come in the form of money and a title...First toolmaker, then shop foreman and now Toolroom manager.

I'm sure i can make more somewhere else but I don't look around much, I am happy here which brings me back to the top.

Hope i helped. If not happy speak up don't just sit around and grip about it. Ask "what can I do to make more money"? Hey it has worked for me.

Bowman

11-30-2006, 10:55 AM

While I agree that we all accept the salary/benefits packages at the time of job offer I think what gets most people is that they made this decision based on what they were told the job entailed (duties/description).

I know all places have the caveat of "and all other duties," at the end of the descriptions but that should not end up being the main part of the jobs actual duties. When those all other duties consume the majority of your time you start to wonder what exactly it was you were hired for to begin with.

Over time I have come to realize companies will take advantage of an individuals multitude of abilities but fail to realize that when they go to far with the requests it creates issues with the employee.

While having multi talents/skills to bring to a job is considered a good thing and help you land a job it can be a double edge sword in that you end up being asked to do things above and beyond more often while others with the same job title but limited abilities are only asked to do their main job and nothing more.

In my current job I worked contract for 6 months working on upgrading the network and other misc computer IT/IS issues. When my contract was up they offered me a position in Quality as a compliance auditor since my degree qualified me for the position. We have 45-50 people at this plant with only 2 of us knowing anything about PC networking/hardware etc. So what they saw in me was the chance to fill the open position as well as get someone to help with IT/IS. I have to admit it all worked just as I had hoped leaving college in that I got into a plant via my IT experience and also my degree helped and worked my way into a position with the use of all my abilities. Yet now I am starting to feel the toll after 4 years of extra duties, I am now even involved in automation projects on the production lines. All this while I am still expected to do the actual job descriptions duties at the same time. Eventually you feel your being overworked and under appreciated, generally taken advantage of.

I can see where employers would want to get the most out of the employees they can and utilize all their abilities to help business output. Yet there comes a point where your being asked to do what amounts to several jobs at other facilities while only being paid for the one which you were hired.

Above and beyond should be taken into account more often. I think employers fail to realize over time what someone does especially if those things never come up as issues.

I have come to the conclusion that offering to do more will always be accepted and hardly ever rewarded. So its best to just lay low, be quiet and not offer up much in ideas else you end up following it through just for having the idea.

All that being said it is nice to have a job and to know that I can do many different things others here can not and I think that is valued but just not rewarded when being compared to peers. The door is always open to new prospects for employment you just have to look. As for me I am stuck here for a few more years to get my time in and then I am golden in this field as far as other jobs openings go. Until then I offer to do things others would never think of only if I want to do it for my own personal gain in knowledge. Something more I can offer the next employer so they can take advantage of that too heh. Its a catch 22 all you can do is try to limit your exposure and still be a valued employee at the same time.

Geof

11-30-2006, 12:51 PM

HuFlungDung

11-30-2006, 12:57 PM

LoL, Geof, you nailed it. :D

Bowman

11-30-2006, 01:04 PM

Geof good point I totally forgot about as an option to working for someone to begin with. My neighbor started doing his own gig hosting websites out of his house a few years ago. He calls me corporate Dan and I rib him when holidays come around and about his boss not letting him off and making him work nights.

Funny thing is he wants me to come on part time to help out since he is overloaded as CEO and Janitor etc etc etc and he knows I know what he needs and that I could easily learn what I am lacking plus I am the only one he trusts even thinking about leaving his business with. The way his business is going I am thinking about it for the extra $$ but also as a potential future out of the corp world to doing my own thing as well. Webhost admin servers cranking in the back, CNC running in the shop might be enough to take me away from corp hell heh.

Shame you go to school and get out and get the good job with the good company and still you just want to get out and do your own thing. Many days I think to myself, I went through school and all its crap so that I could now deal with this corp crap??

Hats off to those of you that do your own thing, I hope to join your ranks soon.

STS_John

11-30-2006, 01:13 PM

1st: Remember this comes from the other side, I own a machine shop.

2nd: I did not see anywhere where you stated what your pay was, so I don't know if you are under paid or not.

3rd: You seem to be complaining that you are handling more than one responsibility, and not the pay.

Opinions: I ask everyone when they start at my shop if they are happy in life. If they say yes, we try not to do anything at work to make them unhappy. If they don't know if they are happy, or say "No" I am not happy, we usally don't hire them. Becuase no matter what we we do, they won't be happy at work either. Which usally makes them a pain in the ass to deal with.

Over the years I've heard the"it's not my job" whining from quite a few individuals. If you are a work for 8 hours, what's wrong with staying busy. I actually find the day goes faster, and there seems to be more purpose to my life.

It all gets down to attitude. The guys here at my shop seem to have one thing in common. They have come to peace with the fact that they will most likely need to work for a living for most of their life (unless they hit the Lotto). So they come to work to make the best out of the day, and not to make themselves miserable.

I had a very good machinist working here some years back. I paid him top wages (in excess of 50K per year, and that's damn good money in Florida) He was running a manual lathe job with an 1 hour and 15 minute cycle time. I ask him to do some detail work on the parts that were finished. He said no, he would do that when the run was finished. I then saw him sit on a stool for an hour watching the lathe go round. I went and cut his last check and walked him out the door.

There are some months when I go without a paycheck so I don't have to lay anybody off. I keep one person in bad health on the payroll so she can get medical benefits. All the complainers here need to realize this is two way street, the company needs to make a profit also. Remember, I worked my tools for other people for 20 years. And, I worked at some goverment facilites and large corporations that I felt there were some "suits" that were making lots of money and not worth it. All I did was make myself miserable. If you have a job, try to be productive, and happy with yourself. If the place is making you miserable, find a new job. If the new job makes you miserable, maybe its you making yourself miserable.

thkoutsidthebox

11-30-2006, 01:18 PM

I read the downloadable e-book called something like "Making Money the old Fashioned Way" by the owner of Sherline. Its on their site. It was very good. Its free, just ask you to make a donation to a machinists charity if you want to, or not if you dont.

Anyway, it mentions that some people are meant to be employees. Thats what they will be able to do, and if they try to be self-employed they will fail. But that some other people are meant to be self-employed and they will excel, if they don't succeed they will start again and again, until they eventually get it right, because they will simply never be happy working for someone else.

Im the second type whether I like it or not! :) Eventually I'll have my business up and running. Anyway....Im not exactly sure now what my point was when I started typing, but its a good book Bowman, you should read it.

Incidentally, I go to work knowing that my job is to do what Im told and not to cross any higher ups. A lot of days people end up trying to hide from the boss because there's nothing to do. Its ****. (Forgive the language). Theres nothing worse than sitting around doing nothing in work thinking about everything you could be doing elsewhere. I like to be kept busy.

Here's my only word of advice:
Dont think of your wages as being for specific tasks. Your in work for the same period of time whatever your doing, and your paid to do whatever the employer needs done. So think of your wages as per hours. If your getting enough per hour then your getting paid enough, if not then ask for a raise. What your doing each hour is irrelevant. (Unless its life threatening or you have to do it a thousand miles away!) If you really dont like what your doing its possibly time to go somewhere else.

j-radkemachine

11-30-2006, 01:33 PM

STS JOHN,

SALARY = APPROXIMATELY 35K PER YEAR ( THAT'S W/ OVERTIME ... YOU DO THE MATH )

HOURS - AT LEAST 9 A DAY ... UP TO 14 IN THE PAST IF THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES...

ALSO... I'M A WORKAHOLIC... ( I'D RATHER IT BE MORE LIKE 12 HRS. A DAY STEADY ) & I'D MUCH RATHER BE BUSY THAN BORED...
I ALWAYS DO MORE THAN EXPECTED W/ EVERY YOB I'VE HAD!!!

I ASKED FOR THE EXTRA WORK & RESPONSIBILITIES... JUST THOUGHT I'D BE COMPENSATED FOR THE EXTRA HARD WORK...

THE ONLY REASON I LISTED PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING I DO... IS TO PORTRAY THE FACT THAT I'M DOING THE JOB OF ABOUT 3 or 4 POSITIONS.
( AT LEAST THAT'S MY OPINION )

AND HERE'S THE KICKER.............. IT'S MY DAD'S SHOP ( THAT KINDA EXPLAINS WHY I ACTUALLY ASKED FOR THE ADDED RESPONSIBILITES )
A LOT OF PERSONAL INTEREST IN THE BUSINESS

STS_John

11-30-2006, 01:34 PM

STS_John

11-30-2006, 01:39 PM

Independent CNC

11-30-2006, 01:39 PM

The company I work for had some down times several years ago and I was given work from one of the employee’s they let go with no other composition. I make enough money now and I am happy with what I do, but keep in mind that the more money you make the higher you may be on the list for layoffs.

Independent CNC Programmer
Home Page: http://www.ctcn.net/~3kings

dertsap

11-30-2006, 01:59 PM

if they aren t paying what your worth ,then find a job that will , at the same time you can see what other companies are paying for your position ,
ive worked with guys who thought the company will fall apart without them , bottom line is the company was there before them , it will be there long after their gone ,

if your not happy leave , its just a job , and your just an employee

j-radkemachine

11-30-2006, 03:09 PM

Well I Have Gotten All Kind Of Responses...
I Now Have A Little More Perspectives To Anal-eyes

Thanx

pp-TG

11-30-2006, 03:55 PM

Start your own business and then you get to do all those things and scrub out the can and probably take a cut in pay for the first few years with the chance you will lose everything you have invested if your luck turns down a bit.

Geof, I did just that I was working as a shop superintendent,(After leaving a shop where I was the shop forman) I was given a Letter of Intent stating what my responsibilities where.(was doing way beyond what was stated)
(but is that not what makes a good employee a good employee?)

Just after starting this job I had to let the engineer/programmer go...We could not find anyone else so I took on that job too, needless to say I was salary so I did not get no more $$ and I did the engineering and programming at home...after my 14hr days(Not that iam complaning because iam not).

But I still was not happy at this job either and 2 weeks after the date my promissed raises did not come I whent into the owners office and put in my 2 weeks..His response was why, I told him "things were promissed and not keeped" He did say he would go good for the raise but it was to late I felt I should not have to ask for something I was promissed in writing...and my attitude was already shot...so I did not see the point of staying.

So I STARTED MY OWN SHOP and now I make 1/4 of what I was making I do 10 times as much work and I work much longer days....(And there are some days I just dred getting out of bed)But at the end of the day when I look out over my little shop, just before shutting off the lights, It brings a smile to my face....:wee:(I just pray to god I get enough work to keep the lights on!)

j-radkemachine

11-30-2006, 04:21 PM

Sts John,
I Did Work In A Gear Shop For 4 Years... Where I Started Out Running A Manual Lathe... They Needed Help In The Gear Shop... Asked Me ... I Said " Sure " ( Learning Experience ) When I Started In The Gear Shop.. There Were 3 Of Us.. Everyone Ran 1 Machine
( Sometimes 2 ) These Were Older Machines That Took Forever To Make 1 Pass Thru A Gear , Spocket , Etc. ... Anyways, After About 9 Mos. I Was Running 5 Machines While The Other 2 Guys Still Ran 1 Or 2 .. Although I Did Receive Raises For My Hard Work... The Bosses Did Call Me In Every 6 Mos. Or So For An "evaluation" ( Which My Present Boss Does Not Believe In ) I Was Kikn Ass & Takin Names... But I Got Involved W/ The Secretary... We Kept It Very Professional @ Work.. Nobody Even Knew... Now You Gotta Believe
Me Here... I Know This Sounds Funny But... I Was Fired 4 Mos. After Our Relationship Started... Come To Find Out ... The Superviser
( Who Was Married W/ 2 Children ) Had A Thang For Her & Had Been Tryin For A While To .... Well You Know ...
And Just Like That ...i Was Let Go... ( He Said It Was Because I Had Scrapped Too Many Parts ) ... I Had Scrapped 4 Pcs. The Whole Time I Was There... 4 Man!!! That's Not That Bad Considering One Of The Other Guys Who Worked In That Dept. Scrapped About 1 Pc. Per Week And Had Been There For About 13 Yrs...

Back To The Beginning ( I Really Have No Point Here ) I Have Gear Experience ...

Here's The Kikr ...
You Said Something About Mastercam... Well Our Company Purchased Bobcad... I Had Never Seen Programming Software Being Used Much Less Know How To Use It... Well... I Read The Manuals & Watched The Videos Over & Over & Over .... ( At Home On My Own Time ) Didn't Get Too Far ... Then I Got An Invitaion To A Seminar For Bobcad.... $600.00 ... We've Had The Software For A Little Over A Year And It Still Has Not Been Used... So Maybe When I Get My Tax Return Next Year.... I'll Go Take The Seminar ??? ( So I Can Learn How To Use Some Software That Will Soon If Not Already Be Out-dated )

If You Have Not Read Into This Yet... I Am Not Only Frustrated W/ My Pay... I Dont Agree W/ Some Of The Decisions That Are Being Made...

Right Now ... I'm Biding My Time... Trying To Be Patient...
Man Am I Rambling Or What!!!!

Thanks For The Feedback Though..... Gives Me Some Perspective!!!

tmaker

11-30-2006, 05:11 PM

I wasn't wining just blowing off steam. My wife has a debilitating disease and can't work I can't afford to go without ins. when changing jobs. I am making $20.70 an hour the 2 owners bought 57 classic/collector cars last year ford saline, 69 vette, etc. I design and make all tooling and custom machs. fix and maintain all machs. set up and program all machs. and they won't let me have a com.. But I go to work every day and do what they ask and more knowing that I put a roof over our heads and food on the table. And I get to go hunting for 3 weeks a year, which I am leaveing for 3 days to do as soon as I get done with this. Life is good I just can't help but want more.

Geof

11-30-2006, 05:41 PM

...So I STARTED MY OWN SHOP and now I make 1/4 of what I was making I do 10 times as much work and I work much longer days....(And there are some days I just dred getting out of bed)But at the end of the day when I look out over my little shop, just before shutting off the lights, It brings a smile to my face....:wee:(I just pray to god I get enough work to keep the lights on!)

Yes, sometimes you are sure you are crazy but there are some rewards that are worth more than money. I have a philosophy; never compromise on price and never compromise on quality. That way if you get dealt a loosing hand and cannot continue your own operation at least you have given it an honest effort. In my case the lucky breaks outnumbered the unlucky ones and I am keeping the lights on and then some.

Bowman

11-30-2006, 07:12 PM

Ahh yes the fact that jrad is in a family business does make sense as to why so much is asked/expected with not seemingly enough pay. I would also have to look at it like a equity building process if your going to run the business one day and just think how well versed you will be with all the ins and outs when you do. You should at least pay yourself enough to be happy though, but know your making time and building upon what you already have going many wish they had that going for them. Next best thing to almost being your own boss, someday.

The grass is always greenier and the pastures are all over the place it seems so tempting. All jobs come with crap and the company jackass's just how it is all over the place.

As for the insurance I understand your dilemma as thats the main thing I think about when going it alone or even switching to another company is the loss of my good benefits and time for vacation built up etc. It sucks that many people get stuck in their jobs because they have to have the benefits. I can say this much about socialized medicine while I am not for it should it ever be forced on us it will change the nature of business I believe in that it will free people to go other places more readily.

tenaja

11-30-2006, 08:35 PM

j-radke, you never did say (or I missed) how old you are now...so maybe you are 18 and doing the job since you were 12, then 35k is a high salary. Maybe you are 45, and then you'd probably be underpaid...then ask for a raise, or find a new job. I've seen guys doing your job for anywhere from $40k on up. Office managers can be found cheap, if you find a young & smart person, so you aren't necessarily that special. I've seen them start at $7.50/hr, and do everything you listed. I've also seen machinists do your job for $10/hr. Sometimes it just takes time sometimes to find that right smart person.

For those complaining about their bosses buying new cars, I have this to ask...
Where were you when the boss was working 2 jobs & eating boxed mac & cheese to start the company? (I did. My employees were collecting steady checks at their old jobs.)
Where were you when the boss took a second on the house to make payroll? (I have. My employees were building equity in their homes.)
Where were you when the boss spent his life savings to buy the machine you are running? (I did. My employees were saving for retirement.)
Were you offering to forego YOUR paycheck the month the company lost money, and ran out of cash? (I have...but my employees have never missed a paycheck.)

Sure, I've got a shop, too. One year, I made over 200k. At one point this year, I was down $50k in the red... Now I'm up a bit. It's just how business goes. So, those employees who complained about my "new car," do you think they offered to make my car payment, since I didnt' get a check in August? Yeah, right!!! If you want a steady job, you work for someone else at whatever rate you've agreed upon. If you don't like that rate, negotiate a new rate or a new job. If you want a chance at high wages, you gotta accept the risk of low, too.

Obviously with a family business, it might be different...is your Dad going to give the business to you at some point? If he's promised it to you when he turns 55, for instance, it's ok to deal with a few (or 10, or whatever...) lean years, if you think the payout of a fat check later will be worth it. On the other hand, if he's going to sell it for retirement, then either ask for more, or work elsewhere. But if he's promising you the business if you work for a low wage, then get it in writing, even if it's your Dad. People do screwy things when it comes to money...especially when it means they'll get less of it. Getting it in writing makes it so there are no doubts as far as intentions go, and everybody is on the same plane. If there is tension just because you ask for it in writing, then that means there is no intension to follow through with a verbal or implied promise.

tmaker

11-30-2006, 08:48 PM

Did I mention in the 10 years I have been their they went from 6 people in small shop to ? people in 2 shops and 6 warehouse's in 4 states and a shop in mex. ? sorry they did not work 2 jobs and eat out of a box I DID.

tenaja

11-30-2006, 08:52 PM

OK, how about this one...
Where were you when I quit my $70k/year job so I could work the business full time, and only made $17k the first year???

You choose to accept a job, you do the job...if you didn't start the company, you didn't take any risk.

Gandalf

11-30-2006, 08:54 PM

Tenaja you've nailed it. I was there too. I think someone should wake up and smell the coffee.

tenaja

11-30-2006, 08:56 PM

Oh, and tmaker, my comments weren't directed specifically at you... more to everybody with the attitude of "why does my boss work less than me and make more money?" There's a simple answer:

Because he can!!!

And you know what? You are both getting paid what you are worth. If you are worth more, prove it by asking for the raise, or going elsewhere.

[edited typo...]

tmaker

11-30-2006, 08:59 PM

Thy called me and asked me to come to work for them, I had a god job already, promiced me the world and did not deliver. now I am stuck.

Geof

11-30-2006, 09:41 PM

From tenaja: But if he's promising you the business if you work for a low wage, then get it in writing, even if it's your Dad. People do screwy things when it comes to money...especially when it means they'll get less of it. Getting it in writing makes it so there are no doubts as far as intentions go, and everybody is on the same plane. If there is tension just because you ask for it in writing, then that means there is no intension to follow through with a verbal or implied promise.

This is the core of the issue. I was planning on writing something along these lines but I am getting lazy in my old age.

tenaja

11-30-2006, 09:56 PM

Thy called me and asked me to come to work for them, I had a god job already, promiced me the world and did not deliver. now I am stuck.

Well, it sucks when people don't keep their word. Did you get it in writing? If not, then it sucks even more. Have you asked about it?

Aside from simple production workers, I put every job offer and every job description in writing. That way there are never any misunderstandings. I recently hired a sales guy. I offered him 10% commission, and put in writing that I could change that at will. At this time, I have no intention of changing it, but I told him that was so if he decided he was comfortable with $XX salary and he quit working hard for more business, then I could give him new incentives to keep growing sales. Everything up front & honest, in writing from the get-go. That's the way I like it. Too many times there are "impressions" and "misunderstandings" and "miscommunications" that get in the way of good productivity.

Now, if you had it in writing, you could take that paper to them and ask "What's up???" And then they'd either have to tell you they lied to your face, or they'd cough it up.

But NOBODY is stuck at a job. There are ALWAYS other options for hard workers. If you want to be a clock-puncher, that's fine--not everybody is cut out to be an entrepreneur--but if you don't like your job, go to the bookstore and buy What Color is Your Parachute? It will tell you how to go get the job you want.

merl

11-30-2006, 11:46 PM

So much has been said that is so very true.
I have seen this situation from bothe sides and back to beeing an employee again, why? not because I failed in my venture but because it just was'nt any fun!
All that "noble suffering" .... my turn to suffer came about 11 mo. befor my first child was born.
I was running my own place as nearly another fulltime job (4pm-12:am)and working my regular job (7:am-3pm)
I took in just enough work to keep myself busy and the wife and I spent most of our nights in the shop.
Just as I'm ready to make the jump, and keep in mind I've already put in a little over three years to build the shop up with out any over head debt(yeah, two incomes and no kids is great!)
wife says ,guess what?! Of course I say great I'll just get to work alittle harder when I go full time at home. What about insurance she says, oh that's right OK I'll stay a little longer untill after the baby is born...
Guess what, my employer comes around one day and tells EVERYONE " we are closeing the shop for an undetermined amount of time for restructuring and you are all encuraged to find other work..." Well, isn't that exciting! and even better for me I'm gonna be a father in two mounths!
So now I get to see what it's like to be fully self employed and, I do all right the first year.
Problem, in the real world all my compatition is using cnc while I'm quite happy with the #4 and #5 W&S turret lathes and manual mill that I use in my shop.
Now I find I'm loosing ground to the copmpatition, no pbroblem I teach my wife to handle sales and order stock and I find with a short nap after lunch I can work 4 twenty hour days in a row befor I crash and burn for a day. Not the best business plan I can tell you but, I couldn't aford to hire help, even for cash, the accounts I had at the time all paid on a 60 day cycle that I just couldn't get to coordinate with each other, and the bottom line was when I look at my new baby all I can think about is how much better life was when I was somone elses employee.
So now I'm back working for somone else, a small shop, very close nit and easy going. I nearly race to work every day I like it there so much. Yeah the money is not what I used to make and, we are slow right now so the few of us on the shop floor have had to go into the office and make new sales calls to find work, and yeah, we are at the shop owners beck and call, last week we put a new porch on his house.. after 8 hours of sales calls, Why? because he asked us to and it needed to be done. We always get paid on time every week no problem even though we havn't put enough on the books to cover it. The owner worked all his life to get were he is and now when things are tough he had no problem selling his $45,000. Corevett to cover payroll and the tooling bill so he can keep us there and be ready when things pick back up. You see, he thinks as highly of us as we do of him.
In the end loylety counts for alot when it comes from both sides.
OK, what am I getting at?
There is no such thing as a s*** job, just a s*** attitude
You have only two choices, either do the best job you can, or go some place else.
'nuff said
:p:p
merl

dertsap

12-01-2006, 02:14 AM

, promiced me the world and did not deliver. .

thats usually the way its done , good companies are accomidating and crappy companies find promising the world will get people in the revolving door

as for some of the other post i read , complaining about what the boss does or what the boss is making or what the boss owns is just wrong !!!!!!
he s worked for it , funded the buisiness and PAYS your wages ,

ive worked with many guys over the years who b!tch and complain about their job their wages the company ,always the victim , and never had the balls to speak up ,
ive always said , if the job is that bad or the wages are that bad QUIT ! its just a job ,
i have a mortgage and a family to support just as well as anyone else ,thats not enough excuse not to be a man

ive told enough bosses over the years ,"i dont take no sh!Y@ outside these doors ,i'm not going to take any in them ,
and when they're true men they respect that

mind you when ive scraped that one critical part ,or blew up that tool , i'll put my head down and take whats coming(nuts)

Bluesman

12-01-2006, 06:23 AM

J-Radke,
You are a whiner, You should probobly find your self a nice UAW job somewhere. It sounds to me like you just are not willing to do what it takes to make it in this bis. When I was first starting out I drove from Kawkawlin to Troy MI (90min ride) for 7.50 an hour. It was 1984 and I wanted to learn more about the CNC trade. At this time it was just starting to get good.And there was none of it around here. I drove that for a year until I was able to save enough to move. I did everything that I was asked to do. I even learn to program on my own time. (no one else would do it). I have quit jobs to take on new jobs because they had the technoligy I wanted to learn. Long story short I never whined about how much I made when I felt I was worth more than I was paid I went and found some one to pay it.
So quit your job or quit your whining it is that simple.

Bluesman

j-radkemachine

12-01-2006, 08:22 AM

ViperTX

12-01-2006, 10:25 AM

Yes, we all want to earn more....we all just need to figure how to accomplish that task....

The one thing that I've learned...is that it is self-defeating to compare yourself to someone else and then fall into the "why not me situation.." and not take any action to change.

Bluesman

12-01-2006, 10:47 AM

Bluesman,

Maybe It Came Across That I'm Just Whinin' ... But My Intent In My Original Post Was To Find Some Others Who Had A Similar Yob As I And See What Kind Of Salary They Made... I Had To List All Of My Responsibilites To Try To Find Someone W/ The Same Yob Desc..
If You Haven't Read All Of The Posts... I Don't Want Another Yob!!!
This Shop May Be Mine One Day?!? I'm Just Feelin Underpaid And Thought There Might Be Some Feedback From Others About Their Salary Before I Ask For A Raise.

Oh Yeah, By The Way, $7.50 Per Hr. In '84... Was Prolly Pretty Good.
How Much Was Gas Per Gal. Then?
How Bout A Home Mortgage?
My Parents Home Sold In '98 For $38,000
It Now Has New Siding And Is For Sale @ $75,000

I Started Out @ $3.00 Per Hour @ Age 12 Running A Drill Press & De-burring Parts... So I Guess We All Make A Little More Than We Did 15or 20 Years Ago...

I Love My Job... Just Want More Money...
Don't We All?

Wahhhh Wahhhh Wahhh !!!!
That Was Just For You!!!

7.50 an hour was about maybe 12 bucks by todays standards. Gas maybe 1.30 gal I paid 46,000 for a 100 year old house and intrest rates were 14% on the mortgage. (A little gift left over from the Jimmy Carter Admin) Car Payment was not much better. Inflation was just starting to come down.
The late 70 and early 80 were tough because of inflation. So even 10 bucks an hour did not go far.
And it did not come across that you were whinin YOU WERE whinin, I would give my left nut to be in a position to have my own shop someday.

Bluesman

tenaja

12-01-2006, 10:52 AM

In '84, I recall the price of gas went over $.75/gal...that was just before the year I bought my first car, so you don't forget things like that.

Geof

12-01-2006, 10:53 AM

....I would give my left nut to be in a position to have my own shop someday.

Bluesman

Make sure you produce the heirs that will inherit the business first.:)

matsuura

12-01-2006, 10:58 AM

lol!

j-radkemachine

12-01-2006, 11:36 AM

That's Some Funny **** Man!!

BLUESMAN , THE GAS PRICE TENAJA STATED SOUNDS A LITTLE MORE REALISTIC... ( EVEN THO IT FLUXUATES ) I REMEMBER BUYING IT @ BARELY OVER $1.00 A GAL IN '96...

I BOUGHT MY FIRST CAR WHEN I WAS 14 ... ( '83 CAMARO - $800.00 .... HARDLY RAN... PUT MOST OF MY MONEY TOWARD IT FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS... HAD A BAD-ASS CAR WHEN I GOT MY D.L. )

MY CAR COULD KIK UR CAR'S ASS!!!

Bluesman

12-01-2006, 11:42 AM

Make sure you produce the heirs that will inherit the business first.:)

Way ahead of you I got 5 boys

Bluesman

j-radkemachine

12-01-2006, 01:20 PM

By The Way...
Bluesman,

I Love The Blues... You Don't Deserve The Right To Call Urself "bluesman"
Maybe A#%MAN
Just Kiddin.... Don't Get Mad.... Settle Down....
Deep Breaths....
It'll Be O.k.

willmfg

12-01-2006, 07:39 PM

Guys i rarely if ever post anything on here but i have read all posts and cant help myself.For those of you whinning about what you make i would tell you to stop but i know you wont.

I have been in this trade for about twelve years now i was fortunate to serve an apprenticeship in a shop where we could enjoy our day have fun and make a decent wage all so.Yet some people still would whine,constantly.Questioning why the boss did this,why does this guy make more,why did that guy get a bigger raise,why does the boss have money for a new car but our bonus check is smaller,etc.,etc.

Eventually i left,not for more money,but because work was slowing up and i had an opportunity to go and learn new skills at another shop.Me and my old boss are still very good friends to this day.We BOTH worked hard for each other and we both benefitted from it.

My next job was not as fun nor did i become great friends with the boss,but i did earn his respect along with other employees who recognized hard work and a team attitude.I was well compensated for this,while other employees who just like the last shop felt it more productive to whine about what was wrong were not as well compensated,even though they did good work.

Now i have left and have started my own shop,things are going well.I work long hard hours for sometimes excellent pay and sometimes no pay.Some people are cut out for it and some are not.

The conclusion of the matter is this,those who want to whine and question what everyone else makes and spends there money on are paid less for a reason(this will never change).ATTITUDE plays a part.If you feel your worth more than your making go to your boss and state your case(dont just say i need a raise,prove why you are worth keeping around)if the company has the money and your worth it(not just in job performance but in attitude and teamwork)you WILL get a raise.If the raise is not given rather than WHINE about how you were wronged you should take a step back and look in the mirror and think about if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars invested,working 90 hour weeks for sometimes no pay while providing a safe friendly environment for people to come and earn a good living and provide for there families,would you want to have to put up with an employee like yourself?

actionman

12-02-2006, 01:34 AM

J-Rad you sound like a kid whos Daddy owns the shop

Bluesman

12-02-2006, 08:35 AM

By The Way...
Bluesman,

I Love The Blues... You Don't Deserve The Right To Call Urself "bluesman"
Maybe A#%MAN
Just Kiddin.... Don't Get Mad.... Settle Down....
Deep Breaths....
It'll Be O.k.

Nuff said, You have pretty much summed it up in one short post why you are where you are at. WillMfg has said it much better than I did. I am starting a new job monday I got 3500.00 a year raise to start and 3500.00 more after 6months when I prove that I can do everything I say I can do.
That is how it is done. I think you need to stay right where you are j-radke you will not make it in this trade without your Dad, I have seen kids like yourself. Spoild little brats waiting to take over dads shop so they can "Make some real money". Sad thing is that I have seen them run Dads shop right into the ground and cost some good folks there jobs.
Stay right where you are you wont make it in the real world

Bluesman (AKA A#$MAN) And still making more than you ever will

ALL-AROUND

12-02-2006, 09:34 AM

Family business is a tough subject.....you need to suck it up because you're
managment.
Sit down with your dad and have a heart to heart talk with him and get some shares or some kind of interest in the company so you feel as though you are working for yourself as well !

Was in the same shoes as you.....all is well now.

merl

12-03-2006, 12:50 AM

j-radke!...bluesman!...
Don't think I won't pull this car over right here and crack the both a ya' if you don't quit fighting!
(hee, hee , hee, I couln't resist that one)

merl

Bluesman

12-03-2006, 09:17 AM

j-radke!...bluesman!...
Don't think I won't pull this car over right here and crack the both a ya' if you don't quit fighting!
(hee, hee , hee, I couln't resist that one)

merl

Sorry Mr. Lubener, But he started it

(Some old SNL stuff if anyone remembers that bit)

j-radkemachine

12-04-2006, 08:57 AM

Wow!!!
Boy Did I Fire Up Some People Or What?

Thanks To Everyone For All The Opinions... Some Of You Out There Understand What I'm Trying To Say A Little Better Than Others I'm Sure... But All Have Made Valid Points Somewhere In Their Statements... ( Even You Bluesman!!! I Was Just Havin A Little Fun W/ Cha ). But Seriously ... I Have Read 'em All & Ur Comments Have Given Me Some Different Perspectives To Think About... ( Especially You People In Mi. That Can't Hardly Find Work... )

Do Know Though , That I'm Not Spoiled!!!
I Cant Be... I Don't Have Anything!!! And I Damn Sure Don't Blow Any Of My Money...i'm A Hard Worker... I Am Blessed In My Life & I Am Thankful For Everything I Have Achieved So Far...

Good Luck W/ Your New Job Bluesman
May The New Year Bring You Much Happiness!!!

turmite

12-04-2006, 09:35 AM

j-radkemachine,

I have read this thread with interest and normally don't involve myself in discussions like this. I will make an exception this time. It's obvious you are unhappy and are a hard worker. What's not obvious is whether you have talked to your father about this? Have you? I know that I would love the opportunity to talk to my father one more time but that time is long gone. The forum is not the place to solve your problem. I think the negative posts you got is because most everyone here knows the answer. Go talk to your father, and not in the business setting. Talk to him as your father and not your boss! I'll bet you he will listen!

Mike

matsuura

12-04-2006, 09:45 AM

I work for my father and i know it's not always easy,but i think turmite is right,you should talk to your father.It work for me ;)

j-radkemachine

12-04-2006, 09:46 AM

He's Old School Man...
Doesn't Talk Much Bout Thangs Like That On A Personal Level... Don't Share Feelins... Etc. Etc. ...
But We Will Discuss Some Thangs In The New Year...
Think I'll Wait Till The Years Up. Might Be Something Big Comin To Me For The End Of Year Bonus.
If Not...
I'll Just Keep On Keepin On...

tmaker

12-04-2006, 07:12 PM

sorry I jumped in, just blowing off steam like I said. I worked for my dad in a suit for 1 year, didn't work out. wish he where here now for advice. listen to turmite, and matsuura.

RonRamZ

12-10-2006, 05:32 PM

I feel your pain, bro. Working for your father is no picnic. I didn't know my father respected me professionally for 25 years. Had to find out at his funeral. Talk to the man.

As far as what the owner drives, up yours, its none of your business. I heard the same line of crap from my employees when I bought my fully loaded, top of the line Eddie Bauer Ford Explorer.

That was in 1993 and I still drive it to work every day.

newguy81

12-11-2006, 06:16 PM

I've read a lot of the posts on this and I can say from experience that talking to dad about a raise is super tough. Mine talked me out of the Navy after 11yrs, gonna pay me big money do great things. Pay you whatever the navy is paying you was his comment to me. I took it because I thought I was unhappy were I was, then I got my first paycheck $877.00. For a month now. We talked and he believed that was good money, honest to god he did. I was really stuck then, couldn't go back to the service, so I just stuck it out. I raise here a raise there. Ran the whole place in two years, kinda like you though felt totally under appreiciated and loved my job. Started making money at the 5 year mark, but in the end we couldn't get past our differences on where to take the company. I resigned and started my own shop 4 years ago. I don't have anyone to complain to except myself if I don't have the things I want. I believe in paying a man what he's worth no matter what that is. Trouble is most people today really don't know what their worth, usually think they are more valuable than they are or they just flat out don't want to work. I can't wait for the day a guy comes thru my door and says "I can run this place man" and then actually does it. I'll give him some of it and hope he wants it all, I can't live forever. You should talk to your dad and see what his perspective is on pay and like one of the other posts said, see if he plans on giving the place to you. Sometimes they want to sell it to you, but you need to know if you are paying for it now with a reduced paycheck. You gotta know before you burn up your good working years. Just my thoughts!

merl

12-11-2006, 07:09 PM

newguy81, I think you may have hit on the most important point of the whole debate here with your coment about figuring things out before you burn up your good working years.
When I go into a place I look around for the first 6 months and decide what I would like to see changed and what I can live with. The importance of the various issuse can change and be re-examined but my core values stay the same and, within two years if I don't see the changes I need to, then I move on. I hate to sound like some kind of "business consaultant" but I do try to "take ownership" of a place when I get there and get involved in as much as I need to help make changes for the better, if the shop wants that kind of help. If they don't want my help then they don't want me either.
There is a big differance between doing what ever it takes to get the job done and being taken advantage of. How many years do you want to spend figuring that out?

merl

raymond1

12-13-2006, 11:12 PM

First off I just want to say it was very interesting to read what everyone had to say. and listening to everyone opinions just makes me realise how lucky I am to have A JOB. But I do belive that when you do what you love the money will follow. you just have to be patiant.

the_canuck

01-19-2007, 05:13 PM

This thread needs this!

Worth: Just because you are necessary doesn't mean you're important!

I guess I had to make my first post sometime. I have a good job, I get paid to be a design engineer (Electrical Engineering degree, 4ys of school and 80 grand investment). I've been with the same company for almost 6 years, but have had 13 bosses/managers, and gone through 27 rounds of layoffs. I'm becoming unhappy with my job and am determined to find something better. I'm a creative person and need an outlet and my current position does not allow me to do that, besides the fact I'm constantly running out of stuff to keep me busy. I'm the type of person who hates being idle.

So, I've started my own business in a completely different field. I design, manufacture, and direct sell model airplane parts and kits. It's been 2 years and I'm still not making anything. I'm at the point of wondering if it is time to try something else or invest more time and money into growing the business.

Since starting my venture 2 years ago I've been working 60 - 80 total hrs per week and have eaten all my savings, stock, etc. Has it been worth the time and trouble? I would say yes. You need to find something that makes your life livable and hope you can make some money along the way to keep doing what you love.

I'm on here to learn about CNC milling machines as I get ready to design my own cnc milling machine for foam, mdf, and Al. I don't have the cash to buy a turn key setup, but I do have the know how to build one. I have built a cnc 4 axis hot wire machine I use for production now. The milling machine will open several new markets and hopefully dramatically increase cash flow.

If it works, I'll quit my job if not I will find something else to use my creative juices on that will pay the bills.

You gotta find what makes you happy in life and stick with it! Money isn't everything.

Andrew