Hi,

I started to build my router on Saturday. I have about 10 hours of construction time. This is one easy to build router table.

I made a few small changes. The base was glued to 2" X 2" aluminum square tubing. For the plywood, I used 3/4 spruce. I paid $2.00 for a damaged sheet at Homedepot.

The drill rod cost more here in Canada. For the 1/2 drill rod (9 ft) and the 12 bushings cost $74.00. I had 2 pieces of drill rod on hand for the Y axis.

Larry

Congrats on your start. You are looking good so far.

Jason

Hi,

Got my X table built. Very impressed on how easy the table moves on the bushings.

I have to make the Y Z conector plate again. The shafts are misaligned slightly, enough to cause binding.

Larry

Hi
Where you bough this router? How much is it? How the elctrical wiring and the stepper driver controller model?

Hi likuanu,

I purchased the plans from: www.stonehook.net/cnchome.htm
I think I paid $18.00 for them.

My steppers and driver board came from hobbycnc. I purchased the 200 oz package. These were used on my first machine. I was very pleased with their performance.

The Rockcliff machine is very easy to build. There are only a few screws and no metal fittings to build. You just have to be careful cutting out the bushing tracks. I am going to use a Dremel or something like it. I don't think the machine will be able to handle a larger trim router.

The picture is my first machine. It worked well but the X axis kept jumping the tracks. The Rockcliff is going to be used as a small CNC drill press so I can finish my aluminum Z axis on my 2nd machine than I'm building.

Larry

Hi,

After 4 tries I finally got the Z - Y connector plate finished. I was having a tough time keeping everything parallel. Just trying to go too fast.

I ended up cutting guide marks on the table saw and then routing the cut lines.

The plans call for 1/4 treaded rod lead screws. I will be using 5/16 lead screws. I have the lead nuts and couplers from my other machine.

Larry

Hello Igroulx200,
I've been looking over my Rockcliff schematics and noticed that indeed the "z-y connector plate" will probably be the hardest part of this router to manufacture (with my limited skills, that is...).
Can you elaborate in more detail on the procedure you used to achieve this (I mean "cutting guide marks on the table saw and then routing.." ).
Also, which of the 3 shape choices suggested for the grooves did you use (round, square or "v")
Thanks in advance!
Moses

P.S. this is my first CNC project.

Hi Moses,

I will take some pictures. I routed out the bushing guides.

I am very new to woodworking so it sometime takes a few tries. The good thing about this router is that it if you make a mistake, it will not cost lots to repair. Redoing the Z Y plate 4 times has taken me about 2 hours and a few choice words under my breath.

Larry

Hi,

Here are two pictures of the Y Z plate. On one of the plates the guide moved when cutting the center grove and the other was used as a template for cutting my guide lines with the tablesaw. I set the blade height to .313" and cut template lines as per plans. I then routed along the cut lines. On the second picture, you can see one of the sawn lines.

This method worked best for me.

I have white glued my bushings and caps in place. I will use epoxy for the lead nuts.

Larry

Hi Larry,
Thanks for the quick reply. The photos illustrate your procedure well. I will attempt to emulate what you have done hopefully sometime monday or tuesday. I noticed that you chose plywood instead of MDF, something I hadn't considered... will probably try the same myself. I'm gonna start my build with that piece just to get it out of the way... will report back here on the results.
Thanks again for the help and taking the time to provide the great photos.
Moses.

For your X axis that keeps jumping off... check out Joe2000che's router Z axis... he used U bolts to hold a bearing on the back of the drill rod

For your X axis that keeps jumping off... check out Joe2000che's router Z axis... he used U bolts to hold a bearing on the back of the drill rod

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the suggestion. Joe has some good ideas on his machine.

I had the skate bearings riding on top of the gas pipe. I was having trouble with my original X axis design so I built it the easiest way I could. I just wanted to get the machine going. I didn't think the machine would or could cut as fast as it did.

As for that machine, I have striped off all the useable parts and threw out the table.

Larry

Hi,

The machine is all together. The slides work well, BUT!

I am using 5/16 treaded rod for leadscrews, rubber tubing for couplers and rod couplers for leadnuts. The leadnuts are epoxed between wood clamps.

I needed one new leadscrew so I cut it from a new piece of rod. I didn't clean the treads with a die. I spun the leadscrew on with my 3/8 drill - and managed to strip the leadscrew 1/2 down and break the wood clamp.

I had to epoxy a new leadnut next to where the old one was.

The new leadscrew will have the treads cleaned with a die.

Larry

Hi,

It is almost done. Tomorrow I will mount the last leadscrew and the steppers. I will get two of the axis working until I change the blown chip.

I will not paint this table so I am not concerned with cleaning the excess glue or sanding. My first table took me about 15 hours of sanding, filling, priming and painting.

Larry

Hi,

My machine is finished. My board is toast so I have ordered a new HCNCPRO board from HobbyCNC.

Overall the machine went together very quickly and was built for less then $100.00 CDN. The bushings and drill rod slide very smoothly until I hit the spot where some qlue fell on a rod. Working on cleaning that up.

If you follow the plans, you will not have to set the machine up. On my first machine, the fun started when I was adjusting my rails, bearings etc. I found that part to be a pain.

If someone is considering this machine, be aware that you will only be able to use a small spindle. If I grab the Z axis, I can wiggle it a little forward and back although it will not move when trying to rock it side to side.

With this in mind and keeping the feed rate down, it will more then serve its purpose.

I will update when I have the new board.

I also built the Rockcliff Router , my machine was really easy to build too, the slides really glide nice with the bushings, I was also amazed how nice the table slides and it cuts great, for what I use it for (RC Plane stuff , 3d canopys, cowls, wing spars made from wood) I noticed you used 1/2" shafts, the plans I used called for 5/8" diameter shafts, they must have updated the drawings to make the machine stronger, I purchased their plans about a month ago, but downloaded an updated copy of the plans just before I was ready to build, you should download the latest version from http://www.stonehook.net/cnchome.htm I have almost finished building a second machine for a friend , it was so fast and easy to build I really don'nt mind.

Hi,

I downloaded the new drawings. The new set do say 5/8 shaft.

Where did you purchase your shafts and bushings? What did it cost you?

I'm hoping to recieve my new driver board this week.

Larry

I got the ground shafting at a local metal distributor in mississauga ontario called access metal it was $56 for half a length (12 feet) they actually cut all the sizes for me, they have lenghts up to 24 feet also there is another local metal supplier here called metal supermarkets they have it too but it was a bit higher in price. I bought the bushings from motion industries as in the plan they are local for me too, they only had 10 in stock but the rest were ready for pickup the next day and the cost was around $1.20 ea. the parts were very close in price to mcmaster carr but without the shipping cost, I am one of those shoppers that like to touch everything and open packages before I buy it

Hi macgemby,

What steppers and router are you using with your machine? How fast does your machine cut and jog?

I have not bought my router yet for this machine. My 2 other routers are too big for this machine.

If you can, post a picture.

Larry

Hi
I have an old maxnc controller and motors I bought about 5 years ago it sat on a shelf for a very long time, it's a wave type controller the maxnc software I got with it was not very good, I am using mach3 now, it is very slow but reliable, I will replace it one day, I use a standard dremel tool on the router mainly 1/8" bits

DO you think it can handle a rotozip id did some mods by making it bigger 24x24x10

Hi,

Yippee! It is 9:00 PM here and Canada Post just delivered my new Pro driver board from HobbyCNC. I was surprised to see a Canadian postal employee delivering this late on Friday night. I paid to have the board express delivered and figured it was going to be UPS or something.

My wife will solder the board tomorrow for me - she use to repair boards at Northern Telecom.

My machine will be finished this weekend.


Larry

Hi all,

I am almost finished making my Rockcliff machine. It has cost me a little more than $1500 Australian. The rods here cost a fortune as they are imported, 3 feet cost $65 australian.:eek: I ended up going with the board and drivers as recomended on his site. I am cutting the y and z again as we use the metric system and 5/8 round router bits are hard to find. Ended up ordering 1 in from the US.
I post the finished machine photo.

Hi,

I am finished my machine. I would recommend it to anyone. It went together very easy and was not hard to setup. With my new CNChobby Pro board and 200 oz steppers, it will jog 60 inches per minute without stalling.

If I were to build it again, I would shorten the Z travel. The Z axis tool plate can come down on the X table and still have plenty of travel.

Thanks

Larry

PICS PICS gotta SEE PICS hope to finish mine this week do you think we could use it to build the joe 2000 or the jrgo machines?????????:rainfro:

Hi,

I will post some pictures in the next few days. You will be able to use this machine to build the other CNC machines.

Cutting with the Dremel is a pain. I needed to slow the cutting rate down so not to overload the router or break bits.

Larry

Hi,

Still looking for my camera to take some pictures. I replaced the Dremel with my Canadian Tire trim router. The Dremel was painfully slow to use. I have the 1/2" shafts so I have a little flex in the Y axis. If I keep the cutting speeds down and don’t make deep cuts, I have no problems.

I can’t say this enough: if a person is looking for a great machine to build with little money and complexity, this is it. It cuts great, moves at a good clip and could be used to build a “bigger and better” machine.

Larry

Hello all,
I have just finished my second go at making the router table. I used MDF in the first one and we had a day of 37C deg and the cutting table ended up having a curve of 4mm. This time I used form ply 17.5mm and plastic coated.

I reduced the Z axis by 50mm as I did not need it that tall and the cutting table is 408mm * 408mm (15*15 inch). One thing I liked about the design is it is so simple to increase in size. I changed the way the slide bearing are held in place and it seemed easier to line up. Instead of cutting the holding plate at 2*2 inch I made them run the full length of the groove. A bit too much torque on the screw made the 2*2 twist and then in was binding.
All I have left to do is add 12*12mm aluminium box tube to the outer edges of the cutting table and add a small sheet of foam to this. This will so router from carving it to cutting table and make it easy to hold balsa pieces down.

:banana:

CC

Hi All
It's nice to hear you guys have had some good success with your builds,
thank you for the positive comments, on easy and simple construction, I have read some of the comments and improvements you have made and will make some changes and additions you recommended to the plans to help future builders, we will be adding some new machine designs and some different machines to the same plan in the new year, so feel free to get a copy anytime, your registration code will be valid, and if there is anything I can help with please ask or email anytime, and again thank you for sharing your knowledge, and experiences.


Nick Adamo
Rockcliff Machine Inc.

Hi there,
Just finished drawing the famous roadrunner from Mach3 and it turned out great. Few minor adjustments and all should be running even faster have it set a 20inch per minute on rapids just till I get the hang off things.
Still need to install some limit switches and a sound proof box. Wife complained about the noise as I had it running in the kitchen( to hot to work in the shed ) :D

Nick,
I will be looking forward to the new plans that you come out with.


http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_0141.jpg

CC

I like the looks of everything. But one question - won't the plywood warp?

I used mdf but I did seal it, I spray painted it with a couple of coats of paint, I have not had any problems so far, but for sure mdf cannot be allowed to get wet, I would think plywood or laminate would be even better than mdf for moisture resistance, aluminum would be the ultimate, I just do not have any metal working equipment.

Hi macgemby,

Nice looking machine!

To answer the other chaps question about plywood warping, having the layers of wood at different angles makes plywood resist warping and increases strength.

I installed X and Y home switches, sure helps with setup. I drilled holes 1" apart on the table for screwing down part hold clamps. Very pleased with the quality of parts that I am making.

Still haven't got the Gcode 100% yet. Ruined a new 1/4" bit by shearing off a poorly placed hold down screw. Run a small program that I wrote without doing a trial run. A line of code was in the wrong spot and the machine did a quick jog into the screw.

Larry

Hi all,

The ply I used in the machine is formply which we use for concrete form work. The black colour is plastic coating and the ply itself is made to be water resistant. The wood coloured edges have been coated in varnish to protect from moisture. If it does warp to much it only cost $80 for the board and a day to cut and build. Not to much trouble for the price.


CC

[QUOTE=lgroulx200;236747]Hi macgemby,

Nice looking machine! ]



Sorry Coolcuttings,

Nice looking machine!

Larry

Larry,
thanks.
Almost finished the sound proof box for the machine to fit in to. Just need to add some lights and the sound foam.
What inch per minute rate do you have your machine set at?

Hi Coolcuttings,

My jog speed is set at 36 ipm. The machine will go faster but my x lead nut (I used a rod coupler) was installed a little off. If it goes faster then that the free end of the lead screw whips around quite a bit. I'm worried that if the rod coupler come loose, I will have a tough time repairing it.

I finishing a router that I was building before using my new router. I am changing the Z axis design to use the same idea as on the rockcliff router. Not that many parts and it sure works nice.

Larry

Hello gang,

I have just finished the box to put the machine in to keep the wife and child happy. The little fella could not sleep if I had it running in the shed at night.
one day I must insulate the shed. all I have to do now is stick in the machine and hook up the dust collector.
I am running 12vdc garden spot lights in the box to keep the heat down and so I can see.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_005.jpg

Hello gang,

I have just finished the box to put the machine in to keep the wife and child happy. The little fella could not sleep if I had it running in the shed at night.
one day I must insulate the shed. all I have to do now is stick in the machine and hook up the dust collector.
I am running 12vdc garden spot lights in the box to keep the heat down and so I can see.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_005.jpg

What is the box size, hard to get a feeling for the size from the picture. Or better yet a picture of your CNC inside.
Thanks

Greeting Mr. Chips,
the box is 48D*32H*35W or internals 1080*730*760mm's which is just big enough to fit in the machine into.

CC

Hi all,

My machine is up and running complete with sound proof box.
All I hear in the shed is the rumble of the dust collector. Just need to move the PC from the top of the box and install under it.
Just hate when you need a PC cable at 11pm and nothing is open.:)

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/111_1179.JPG

Hi Coolcuttings,

Well done!

I found my camera at my daughters house. I will post some pictures later tonight.

Larry

Hi,

Here are some pictures. The wires on the back of the machine are pinned. They are for my home switches. The wiring could be (should be) tidier.

I set the machine to drill holes every 1" on the X table. I use them for indexing and for hold downs.

The first part that I made was the router clamps used for my new trim router.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Nice machine. What is the weight of your trim router? I was going the use one but I was unsure if the machine would carry it.

CC

Hi Larry,

Nice machine. What is the weight of your trim router? I was going the use one but I was unsure if the machine would carry it.

CC

Hi Coolcuttings,

I am not sure of the weight of the router. I'm cutting poplar at 1/4" at 10 ipm with outstanding results. It is capable of cutting faster but my machine uses 1/2 drill rod and my Z axis is not very ridged fore and aft. On a couple of occasions in my Gcode, I put G00 instead of G01. The machine was set to jog at 35 ipm. It cut the piece with no ill effects.

Larry

Hi Coolcuttings,

you should send a picture of your machine to Rockcliff. Nick will post it on his web site.

How is your machine coming?

I fixed my X axis backlash problem. I screwed on a plastic leadnut on the end of the table. I lost a couple of inches in travel but got my accuracy back.

Larry

Larry,

The machine is cutting well. I have cut a few RC plane parts and the thickest has been a 1/4'' ply which was cut with a .05 endmill router bit and 2 passes at 0.125 each. I have done 3 cuts of the same peice on different thickness ply and all have come out the same, which is a bonus. I get a bit of flex in the y axis and x axis as the cutting surface has been made larger by 3 inches. Next time I would go a thicker rod to stop the flex. But you live and learn as we go. I had troubles keeping the material being cut fixed in place which I solved by drill a piece of mdf at 1'' intervals and then tapped these with a 3/16 tapper. 225 drill holes and 225 taps, glad it is only a piece that will get marked over time.:o

I will take a photo when it is next running and send it off to Nick.

CC

Hello guys, I just started a Rockcliff router. I am just getting everything together. What type of switches do you use for homing switches and how do you hook them up to the machine, and the control. I am using 425 oz in stepper motors, and a stepmaster nc 3 axis board. I have a complete metal working machine shop with a cnc bridgeport mill to make some of the parts. I will not get to fancy, as this is my first cnc build but I can use my mill with a 3/4" ballnose endmill to mill the table and blocks correctly. I bought 2 dewalt heavy duty trim routers for my project. I will make some nice aluminum mounts for the router to clamp around the diameter on the nose of the router. This is a fantastic website to share and get information from, and all you guys make it happen. Boy, the world would be a boring place without hobbies. Thanks again, Pat

Greetings Pat,

I do not use any homing switches and use micro lever switches for the limit switch, which are hooked directly to my stepper board. only problem with that is mach3 can use 5 limits switches only and I have six. I have connected the Z+ and Z - as one port and remaining to their own. At the monent the novelty has not worn off so I sit and watch all the parts getting cut out. I am still amazed at what can be built of simple items and work with out a hiccup.

Make sure you take photo of the build and post here.

CC

CC

Thanks Coolcuttings, you have built a nice machine with alot of fore-thought. I would like to see some better pictures that you can blow up of your machine. I will build this one, and then the next one will be linear bearings, ball screws and slides. Pat

What type of switches do you use for homing switches and how do you hook them up to the machine, and the control.

Hi Pat,

For my home switches, I screwed 2" X 2" plywood to the gantry and the floor of the router table. To the blocks of plywood I attached micro switches. On the Y axis, I screwed a deck screw into the connector plate and on the X axis I screwed a drywall screw into the X table. The screws trigger the switches. There is no home switch on the Z axis.

The switches are wired to the CNCHobby board. The switches share a common ground.

I did not install limit switches. If you are using 425 oz steppers, I would install them. You will break something if there is nothing stopping them.

Larry

Thanks for the info Larry. This should be a fun project. I am going to throw the wood table and blocks up on my bridgeport and run a 3/4" ballnose endmill to install the 3 radius tracks for the bushings and nuts. I think I will attach a 1/4" thick piece of aluminum to the wood table that has a bunch of tapped holes in it for clamps. Pat

Interesting machine. On the bronze bearings:

Are you just using a router to make a channel in two blocks of wood then sandwiching the bearings inbetween the two? So you would use a 1/2" or 5/8" round router it (whatever the outer I/D of the bearing is). Is this correct?

Interesting machine. On the bronze bearings:

Are you just using a router to make a channel in two blocks of wood then sandwiching the bearings inbetween the two? So you would use a 1/2" or 5/8" round router it (whatever the outer I/D of the bearing is). Is this correct?
Hi mwalash
Yes in our plans the bearing channels can be made with a router or table saw, and are sized for the O.D (outside dimension) of the bearing, in your email to me this afternoon explaining an attempt to use the same style bearing in your machine plans, had caused binding the binding is most likely due to incorrect bearing location geometry, when I looked at your machine design I can see your table slide bearing location distance is too short in the length (or travel direction) as compared to the width, when this type of geometry is used it will in most cases cause a natural binding or a lock-up condition, by increasing the distance between bearing locations greater in the travel direction than width will give better results, or using a dual leadscrew design to keep both sides slaved together, the same rules should be given with respect to the actual length of the bearing surface too.

Nick
Rockcliff Machine Inc.
http://www.stonehook.net/cnchome.htm

Hi All

I have'nt had too much time for replys this week, and thank you Coolcuttings and Larry for your helpful replys, and yes Coolcuttings your machine looks really good, I could only hope to have woodworking skills like that one day!

Cncboss6
For sure cutting the grooves with your bridgeport will make for a very easy and fun build, I was very tempted to use my
vertical mill when making this machine from my plans, (but I could not cheat) I had to stay true to the plans, and used
a table router as most people would be using home style tools, This router design can accept commercial linear rails and
runner blocks, without any issues a size 15 can be used as a direct replacement . We are an OEM automotive machine builder and
have purchased about as much of the stuff to pay for a medium sized house,
I have had many many years of good success with the Star line of linear bearings http://www.boschrexroth.com/ if or when you decide
to go that route let me know I will rework a plan set for you to include linear rails and runner blocks, then add it to plans for others.
Nick
Rockcliff Machine Inc.

Hi All
I just finished a injet print head positioner this month, x axis 13" and z axis 12" two rails and three runner blocks cost me $650! and I get a huge OEM discount! you can see a picture of it on my site http://www.stonehook.net/oem.htm


Nick
Rockcliff Machine Inc.

Hello,

I jus't bought the plans and now i'm waiting on the key. Anybody now how long this takes? I'm verry curius to start en to take a look in the plans.

bas

Hello,

I jus't bought the plans and now i'm waiting on the key. Anybody now how long this takes? I'm verry curius to start en to take a look in the plans.

bas Hi Sunlight I have just emailed your key, sorry for the delay as we are on a different time zone than holland, if you have any questtions please email me anytime,
Nick

Hello Nick,

I'm study them right now, looks inpresive.

Delay??? its 1 our ago that i pay so now problem at all. Realy fast service.

regards Bas

Gday All,
I just wanted to say Gday. I have just spent a few hours in the shed over the weekend and have the rockcliff router almost together. Great plans and easy to follow. I hope you all dont mind when i ask some silly questions. I have no idea of what i will use to drive the router system yet.Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Regards
Darren
Melbourne Australia

Can anybody tel me where to get the steppers and the driverprint in Holland?

I've look at www.conrad.com but i find a diverence in the specs.

Can i use these steppers :

http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/175000-199999/198320-da-01-en-Schrittmotor_SMC_12056.pdf

Kind regards:

Bas

Gday engext,
Got your PM.
Welcome to the group. I have used the the Xylotex driver and stepper system and Mach3 the run the g-code with no major problem. Check on the Rockcliff web page for the links. I am currently on holiday's in Fiji and will give you a call at the endvnext week when I am in Perth.

CC

Can anybody tel me where to get the steppers and the driverprint in Holland?

I've look at www.conrad.com (http://www.conrad.com) but i find a diverence in the specs.

Can i use these steppers :

http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/175000-199999/198320-da-01-en-Schrittmotor_SMC_12056.pdf

Kind regards:

Bas
Hi
I have looked at the pdf of the stepper motors they show a holding torque of 6kgf / cm I did the calculation into imperial at 83oz.in. this is on the small side your motors should be around 100 oz.in. or higher they appear to be a nema23 frame size but not enough power, please check my that my calculations are correct, I will look at conrad and get back to you.

Hi
I have looked at the pdf of the stepper motors they show a holding torque of 6kgf / cm I did the calculation into imperial at 83oz.in. this is on the small side your motors should be around 100 oz.in. or higher they appear to be a nema23 frame size but not enough power, please check my that my calculations are correct, I will look at conrad and get back to you.
I looked at conrad and could only find smc 800 ? a quick search of this controller I see some people are having trouble with it and mach3 ?

Hello,

Thanks for the quick reply, So conrad don't have the parts i need. let's look to other manufactors in Holland. I let you now.

Kind regards
Bas

Can I machine aluminium with the 269 oz.in. DS/DS Stepper Motors ?

-Thanks

Can I machine aluminium with the 269 oz.in. DS/DS Stepper Motors ?

-Thanks
This current router design can only acheive light engraving of soft metals, Alum. Brass, a comercial version of this same router plan will be available soon, that will use comercial linear bearings, which will be more agressive with soft metals, when ready the addition to the plans as always, is free to any past customers, the amount of power of the motors will still be in the range of 100oz.in. to 300oz.in range. req.

The measerments on drawing m4 are missing. The are on the inch drawing but not on the metric.

In holland we don't have mdf 19mm only 18, is this a problem?

regards Bas

This current router design can only acheive light engraving of soft metals, Alum. Brass, a comercial version of this same router plan will be available soon, that will use comercial linear bearings, which will be more agressive with soft metals, when ready the addition to the plans as always, is free to any past customers, the amount of power of the motors will still be in the range of 100oz.in. to 300oz.in range. req.

Thanks for the update rockcliff, I have started collecting material and will wait for you new plans before I start cutting.

Will the plans have the same dimensions as the current machine plans?

The measerments on drawing m4 are missing. The are on the inch drawing but not on the metric.

In holland we don't have mdf 19mm only 18, is this a problem?

regards Bas
18mm will be fine the design is flexable enough to allow 1mm thinner material, that is something I will take into account for future updates , I was allways under the impresion that 3/4" or 19mm was available, if you can send me an email I will email an updated m4 drawing I am aware of the missing dimension and did the update a couple of days ago but have not updated the plan set yet.
Nick

Thanks for the update rockcliff, I have started collecting material and will wait for you new plans before I start cutting.

Will the plans have the same dimensions as the current machine plans?
the comercial linear bearing version will be added to the existing plan set, and will be very close in size almost identical, I have been working on it for the last fews days and if all goes smooth hopefully next week, you should see it.

Ok, I understand that the commercial linear bearings are what give the machine the ability to machine aluminium ? Is this correct.

Why is this ? Also, I have not purchased any of my parts for the CNC machine yet (only the plans)

QUESTION: How much will it cost to build the commercial CNC machine ?

I think I will wait if I can afford it, and plans are comming real soon. But I need to build very soon, in two weeks at most. And I'm on a budget. I would really like to machine aluminium.

Should I wait ? What will it cost to build ?

Thank you for your support

-Mark (aka deleteallusers)
mark@landmarku.com

Ok, I understand that the commercial linear bearings are what give the machine the ability to machine aluminium ? Is this correct.

Why is this ? Also, I have not purchased any of my parts for the CNC machine yet (only the plans)

QUESTION: How much will it cost to build the commercial CNC machine ?

I think I will wait if I can afford it, and plans are comming real soon. But I need to build very soon, in two weeks at most. And I'm on a budget. I would really like to machine aluminium.

Should I wait ? What will it cost to build ?

Thank you for your support

-Mark (aka deleteallusers)
mark@landmarku.com
linear bearings and rails for this size machine will add $400 to $500 to your machine see http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280077949697&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr2_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=280077165838&itemcount=2&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
as an example

Is the Rockcliff Router accurate enough to engrave printed circuit boards?
I would be making ones like the stepper driver boards with through hole parts to SMT parts circuit boards.

Gary Fiber K8IZ

The components for the new machine will be available soon as 1, 2 or 3 options this will include: motor couplings, trapezoidal spindles and nuts, radial and linear bearings, pillow blocks, Linear Round rails. Spindle machining, Trapezoidal nut and radial bearing housing.

The current eBay offer is for those customers that have the ability to Interpret / modify the original design using there own engineering skills.

Marchant Dice Ltd

linear bearings and rails for this size machine will add $400 to $500 to your machine see http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280077949697&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr2_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=280077165838&itemcount=2&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
as an example

Is the Rockcliff Router accurate enough to engrave printed circuit boards?
I would be making ones like the stepper driver boards with through hole parts to SMT parts circuit boards.

Gary Fiber K8IZ

Hi Gary,

My machine is accurate enough to engrave printed circuit boards.

Larry

Hello my dear friend please answer to my private message .
thanks

This is mij router so far

http://www.flightdeckbuilder.nl/temp/router.JPG

Waiting on the rods and 3 motors.

regards Bas

Coolcuttings (or anyone for that matter)

Where did you get the sound proofing foam, and how well does it work?

Do you notice much flex in the unsupported rails of this machine?

Coolcuttings (or anyone for that matter)

Where did you get the sound proofing foam, and how well does it work?

Do you notice much flex in the unsupported rails of this machine?

Hi,

I have some flex in my Z axis. I have the older set of plans that use 1/2" rails. If I keep the cut speed below 40 ipm, and didn't cut too deep, I had no problem. If I were to build this machine again, I would make the Z axis shorter. I can't use the full Z axis travel as it is designed.

I use no sound proofing.

Larry

Hi all

I just bought the Rockcliff router plans with the intention of building it mainly out of aluminum. If anyone has any experience doing that I would like to hear about it since it seems most are done in MDF or plywood.

I have searched this forum was not able to find this link so I thought I would share it, they have just about any type of metal you want at price's I think are good

http://www.onlinemetals.com/

I have access to the material through work (cnc-machinist) so that's not a problem. Neither is machining the parts but I would like to know if building the router in aluminum worked well and if there where any changes that had to be made.

There was a message posted previously that said
linear bearings and rails are what determines whether
a CNC machine has the ability to machine aluminum.

I also think the step motor size is also important. Is this true?

Would someone please explain how and why the linear bearings and rails
determines what metel materials the CNC machine can work.

I simply don’t understand why linear bearings and rails are more important
than the step motor power.

Thanks,
-Areal

This design will flex a lot. It take a rigid machine to cut metal. Even with better slides I don't think the slab MDF construction is stiff enough to cut al accurately.

You don't neccesarily need a stronger step motor or spindle to machine metals, you can always use slower feeds and smaller cuts. But as Madclicker says the ridgidity of the machine is the key for a good result. It wont matter if you have a 100 horsepower motor if the machine itself isn't stable. Once you have a rigid base then you might have to consider a stronger step motor if you want to obtain faster machining.

This design will flex a lot. It take a rigid machine to cut metal. Even with better slides I don't think the slab MDF construction is stiff enough to cut al accurately.
Hi

Yes if you want to cut aluminum, a very rigid machine is needed
the Rockcliff Router Plans have many versions of the router included in the plan set, it can be constructed from any material including wood plastic, aluminum, even steel, all parts have the screw locations detailed and dimentioned for complete bolt together assembly, if you don'nt own metal working equipment it can be made from wood and simply glued together , Also included in the plans will be a comercial version that includes industry standard fully supported linear bearings rated at 920lbs x 3 axis's the comercial version can be constructed from aluminun or steel and if a good spindle is selected aluminum can be machined reliably

There was a message posted previously that said
linear bearings and rails are what determines whether
a CNC machine has the ability to machine aluminum.

I also think the step motor size is also important. Is this true?

Would someone please explain how and why the linear bearings and rails
determines what metel materials the CNC machine can work.

I simply don’t understand why linear bearings and rails are more important
than the step motor power.

Thanks,
-Areal
Hi
when cutting any material the part to be cut, has to held and positioned as firm as possible, the harder the material the stronger you need to hold it, a simple explanation would be like trying to saw a piece of wood while holding the wood with one hand and the saw with your other hand not as good as using a vice to hold the wood.

You don't neccesarily need a stronger step motor or spindle to machine metals, you can always use slower feeds and smaller cuts. But as Madclicker says the ridgidity of the machine is the key for a good result. It wont matter if you have a 100 horsepower motor if the machine itself isn't stable. Once you have a rigid base then you might have to consider a stronger step motor if you want to obtain faster machining.

So does this mean that it's possible to machine aluminium with this router?
Just keep the feed low? And machine just a little aluminium at one time?

I'm thinking of buying these plans to get familiar with CNC routers but also want to be able to use this machine to build an alu version.

So does this mean that it's possible to machine aluminium with this router?
Just keep the feed low? And machine just a little aluminium at one time?

I'm thinking of buying these plans to get familiar with CNC routers but also want to be able to use this machine to build an alu version.

Since I haven't built one yet I can't say for sure but I would not build this modell with MDF or plywood to machine aluminum. If you want an aluminum version you should have a shop or machine the parts for you.

Hi

Also included in the plans will be a comercial version that includes industry standard fully supported linear bearings rated at 920lbs x 3 axis's the comercial version can be constructed from aluminun or steel and if a good spindle is selected aluminum can be machined reliably

Is that a future version of the plans and if so when will they be available?

Is that a future version of the plans and if so when will they be available?
The imperial verson is complete and the metric version will be ready this week. I have not updated the current download and was planning to add both at the same time.

I need to drill 768 holes in a piece of ¼ inch black acrylic

The board size is 12in x 12in there is only 3/8inch from the
edge of the board to where the holes start, also, the holes are 1mm
apart.

Question:

Is the work area of the CNC machine large enough to route down a 12-1/8 inch or 12-1/4 inch Board to 12 inches ? Or will I need to make the CNC machine larger ? How close to the 12 inch border will i be able to work ?
is it within 1mm, all my stuff is tight and precise on the edging.

CAN I JUST MAKE THE Y-AXIS TABLE 1/4 - 1/2 INCH LARGER ?
OR WILL I NEED TO SCALE THE ENTIRE DESIGN ?

I think I need to start with a larger board and trim it down because everything is so close together.

Your advise please.

Also, does anyone know where I can order a 13/64 drill bit with a 1/8 inch
shank ? Thats what I need to drill the holes with a dremel tool.

Thank you.

I need to drill 768 holes in a piece of ¼ inch black acrylic

The board size is 12in x 12in there is only 3/8inch from the
edge of the board to where the holes start, also, the holes are 1mm
apart.

Question:

Is the work area of the CNC machine large enough to route down a 12-1/8 inch or 12-1/4 inch Board to 12 inches ? Or will I need to make the CNC machine larger ? How close to the 12 inch border will i be able to work ?
is it within 1mm, all my stuff is tight and precise on the edging.

CAN I JUST MAKE THE Y-AXIS TABLE 1/4 - 1/2 INCH LARGER ?
OR WILL I NEED TO SCALE THE ENTIRE DESIGN ?

I think I need to start with a larger board and trim it down because everything is so close together.

Your advise please.

Also, does anyone know where I can order a 13/64 drill bit with a 1/8 inch
shank ? Thats what I need to drill the holes with a dremel tool.

Thank you.
I just checked the actual stroke and the y axis on the imperial mdf version is 12.5 with the x at 12, this design allows for individual changes in axis length, some other parts will be affected if you need a different stroke, I personally have never seen a drill from 13/64 to 1/8 shank, I usually turn the end in a lathe if I need a smaller shank, since you have a cnc you could use a 1/8" bit, then program to drll into the center of your hole and spiral out to the correct dimesion of 13/64"

has nayone made this machine from metal or plastic? If so, have you had trouble with the bearings sliding if you clamp them rather than gluing them?

has nayone made this machine from metal or plastic? If so, have you had trouble with the bearings sliding if you clamp them rather than gluing them?

You might have made the clamps too small or screw them in too tight if you have problem with the bearings sliding on the rod. On the other hand if the bearing slides out of the clamp the problem might be the opposite. Glue might help.

Now I have most of the programming done to machine the parts. Just need a break between jobs or a free weekend to machine them. There is some things I would do different but I will mostly stay true to the plans just too see how accurate it works. Might switch to acme thread on the leads though.

I am curious about the footprint of these machines. I have very limited space, but would like a machine in the 18X24 range. So, a couple of rockcliff questions:

1) Has anyone built it scaled up past 12x12?
2) Can it be scaled up a-symetrically?
3) Am I right that because the table moves the footprint is always at least double the x/y cutting area? I.e. a 12x12 must have at least 24x24 to be able to move to every corner of the cutting area?

Thanks

First let me state that I have not built this machine.

You should be able to scale it up asymmetrically but flex may become a problem.

The table only moves in one axis (I'll call it Y), so yes, it needs to be twice the desired cutting area plus the stack up of the Z-Axis assembly, length of gantry side plates, etc.

The Z-axis assembly is moving back and forth on the fixed gantry X-Axis. Its width would be the desired cutting area plus the width of the Z-Axis assembly, gantry side plates etc.

My guess is that you would likely have a foot print of at least 24 x 50+ for a 18 x 24 cutting area.

Coolcuttings (or anyone for that matter)

Where did you get the sound proofing foam, and how well does it work?

Do you notice much flex in the unsupported rails of this machine?



mwalach,

I got the sound foam from the local foam sales shop where you can pick up any normal cushion foam.
I do get a bit of flex in the rails when I cut to deep or set the feed rate to fast. I use mine the cut model aircraft parts and it cuts very well and parts click together without glue. My machine has a 15*15'' cutting surface.

I will be logging on to the rockcliff site soon to seen what Nick has drawn up for future machines.:)

CC

The imperial verson is complete and the metric version will be ready this week. I have not updated the current download and was planning to add both at the same time.

When you do, could you do a version without the Mach3 demo? It would make it a little more download friendly for those of us on a dial up connection.

Other than that, I was quite impressed with the work you folks put into the plan set! I should have my rails tomorrow, I am going with 1" x .120 wall seamless mechanical tubing on the x axis- cheaper, lighter and stiffer than drill rod, and should have a 24"x48" bed version of it running for the weekend.

Iain

When you do, could you do a version without the Mach3 demo? It would make it a little more download friendly for those of us on a dial up connection.

Other than that, I was quite impressed with the work you folks put into the plan set! I should have my rails tomorrow, I am going with 1" x .120 wall seamless mechanical tubing on the x axis- cheaper, lighter and stiffer than drill rod, and should have a 24"x48" bed version of it running for the weekend.

Iain

I am very interested in how the seamless tubing works. I just checkout the specs and they are very good.

Larry

When you do, could you do a version without the Mach3 demo? It would make it a little more download friendly for those of us on a dial up connection.

Other than that, I was quite impressed with the work you folks put into the plan set! I should have my rails tomorrow, I am going with 1" x .120 wall seamless mechanical tubing on the x axis- cheaper, lighter and stiffer than drill rod, and should have a 24"x48" bed version of it running for the weekend.

Iain
Hi Iain
Thank you for your positive comments, the 1" shafts your going to use sound like a great idea, is that a like a chrome moly tubing?
sorry about the large file, the download has grown over the last few months and is getting a bit large now, with the new additions planned, I have approx. 30-40 more drawings to add, the reason we have been adding mach is we get a lot of people very new to cnc, and I mean new, and have tried to get them started in the right direction with one complete package, and being an OEM distributor of Artsoft products, makes us promote it whenever possible. I can understand your pain, we have been waiting 3 years for any high speed service to come to our area, satelite is our only option here, I will for sure split the download into a few parts, as uploading it is getting almost impossible
Nick

The SMT I am using is mostly used for hydraulic hard lines on heavy equipment. 5000 psi rated, 20000 psi burst. We use (literally) miles of the stuff at work, and I can get it from work at 75 cents a foot, or from our local metal supplier at $2.35/foot. I do not think it is chrome moly, as no special care is required after welding in order to keep the rating. The only chrome moly I've used had to be pre and post heated to prevent cracking or weak areas after welding.

The OTHER nice thing about this tubing, is with how ridgid it is, I can get an 18"x30" cutting area in a 24x48 foot print, without flexing, by setting my rails 18" o/c and my bushings 18" outside dimensioned, with the table having 6 inches of overhang either end.

The overhang rides approx. 3/8" above the end plates, allowing a full 30" of cutting travel, while having the guides spaced so as to avoid racking.
It sounds strange, but if you sketch it out, it works.

As far as High speed internet goes, I am in the Barrie, Ont. area, and Bell want $35k to provide us with DSL. They would have to replace the lines from the routing station to my phone box, (a distance of 1 mile) after already digging up my yard to run the new lines from Barrie, out to the routing station 2 years ago.
If it is available in your area, Look Communications have an interesting offer on wireless, but you need line of sight for it to work.

ATB,

Iain

Yes I am familar with the tubing your using, when you mentioned Hydraulic tube it dawned on me, yes that tubing does have a fairly good OD precision, it's very smooth about the same or smoother than ground shafting it should give good strong results, it's nice to see inovation, with these builds, you should see an email soon with info on additions to the plans, I live and work in Milton ON and we cannot get high speed from ANY provider not even wireless, it's equivalent to a black hole where I am, but I'll bet if I lived in moosejaw population 10 I could get High Speed with BELLony, anyway the word bell just raises my blood pressure, good luck with your machine and send some pics, if possible.
Nick

Hi all, TOTAL newbie here.

I've brought the Rockcliff plans and have trolled this board for a few weeks now. I'm planning on building the upsized version per the current plan set (barring any changes once the new plans come out if they apply).

I've purchased some Acme threaded lead screws and am now trying to figure out what linear bearing setup to use. I plan on mounting a trim router and doing mostly wood (possibly some light engraving in brass maybe).

With the upsized machine the talk of flex using the 1/2 drill rod is scaring me a little. The seamless tubing discussed sounds promising and I've done a little googling (sp) but being a total newbie am afraid I'm not looking at the right stuff, precision wise. Does anybody have a link to some of this that is suitable for this project?

I'm planning on going with steppers in the 200-300 oz range. Hope this is correct.

Anyhow this is a great site and just figured I'd introduce myself and dive in here.

Thanks,
BobL.

Hi BobL,

I built my machine using 1/2 rods. I basicly just threw the machine together (rough plywood cuts, not cleaning the glue, no paint etc, lining everything up just good enough) to help me finish the current CNC machine that I was working on. I was also worried about the Z axis flexing although it took a good push to get the axis to flex.

I used the Rockcliff to route out my Y axis end plates including 7/8 holes for my skate bearings. The skate bearings fit exact where the ones drilled with my drill press are a little sloppy. As long as I laid out my work correctly, the finished parts were perfect.

I have worked on 3 cnc machines. The only machine to work as advertised was the Rockcliff. I am going to shelve my other project (along with countless hours and money, although I still enjoyed the time spent) and build a new Rockcliff.

Larry

Hi BobL,

I used the Rockcliff to route out my Y axis end plates including 7/8 holes for my skate bearings. The skate bearings fit exact where the ones drilled with my drill press are a little sloppy. As long as I laid out my work correctly, the finished parts were perfect.


Larry

How did you use the Rockcliff to rout parts for itself? I don't understand. Do you mean you made the parts with regular tools and then used the Rockliff to make the parts again?

How did you use the Rockcliff to rout parts for itself? I don't understand. Do you mean you made the parts with regular tools and then used the Rockliff to make the parts again?

Reread his first sentence
I built my machine using 1/2 rods. I basically just threw the machine together (rough plywood cuts, not cleaning the glue, no paint etc, lining everything up just good enough) to help me finish the current CNC machine that I was working on. I was also worried about the Z axis flexing although it took a good push to get the axis to flex.
Jay

May as well add me to the Rockcliff head count. I bought the plans a week or so ago and have ordered the (ebay) Rockcliff 3 package from MarchantDice, which should hopefully arrive on wednesday. I've also accidentally (twitching on an ebay auction prior to the Rockcliff 3 package being available) bought an extra set of ACME threaded rod if anyone in the UK is interested.

I started marking up the MDF tonight to cut tommorow and noticed theres a few measurements missing from the Metric plans. (eg. couple of dimensions in the gantry sides drawing). The measurements didnt seem critical so took a best guess.

Anyway question....

I was considering adding some additional bracing (for example on the outside of the gantry sides and boxing in the base) and also glueing it together with the aid of biscuit joints. Does anyone have an opinion about doing either.

Also do you think the machine would be able to handle the 500g proxxon grinder as a spindle?

Many thanks for all the excellent information on the forums here!

Steve

For the folks in North America...

If you are looking for low cost stepper motors for your machine, go to EBay and do a search for listings being run by a fellow called rcpretired.
He is selling 100 in/oz steppers from Laserwriter printers at a good Buy it Now price, I paid $35 USD plus shipping for a set of three.

His listing said he has a truckload of these for sale, and will sell any other parts from the printers also. I have NO connection with Ray, other than being a VERY satisfied customer and will not hesitate to order more from him when I need them for other projects.

HTH,

Iain

Steve,
That's pretty sweet being able to buy a package with all the platform hardware in it. I looked that seller up, but am afraid the shipping to the USA would be prohibitive. I have my lead screws already anyhow so I'll guess I'll keep on trying to piece the rest of it together.

In any event, I'm sure you will be well along with your project before I am even able to get started. I am very interested in how it goes for you as I hope to pick up a few tips being as we are both newbies in this game.

Hope you continue to post here as your progress and look forward to following along with you on your build.

BobL.

Hello, what is the ebay sellers name? I would like to check it out. Thanks, Pat

Steve,
That's pretty sweet being able to buy a package with all the platform hardware in it. I looked that seller up, but am afraid the shipping to the USA would be prohibitive. I have my lead screws already anyhow so I'll guess I'll keep on trying to piece the rest of it together.

In any event, I'm sure you will be well along with your project before I am even able to get started. I am very interested in how it goes for you as I hope to pick up a few tips being as we are both newbies in this game.

Hope you continue to post here as your progress and look forward to following along with you on your build.

BobL.

Hi Bob,

I'm going to start cutting the MDF parts today and ill take pictures throughout the process. The log type entries on here have been really helpful and inspiring so hopefully someone will benefit from the experiences i have along the way.

The MarchantDice kits definately look like they will add some extra precision to the original design but also bring a few challenges. for example the leadscrews will need to be supported in bearings to make use of the motor couplers (i think, ill know more wednesday) and the pillow block attachments will space the moving platforms off the rails abit more than the original design. I also think the y+z platform is going to be challenging.

The kit does add to the cost but my plan is, i can get started with this machine to get some practice with the software side then in a few months i will be emmigrating to australia and then i can break down the machine and ship the non MDF parts with me and rebuild the machine in aluminium in australia and reuse alot of the components.

I'de post the link to the ebay auction on here but not sure it's aloud, if you search ebay for rockcliff on the UK site you will see the kits listed. also spoke to the owner on the phone a couple of times, very nice bloke. He mentioned they've had alot of orders for this kit since posting it.

Steve

I've made some good progress with the MDF parts today and taken pictures along the way, i'll upload them tommorow. would it be better to start a seperate project log post or post them straight in this thread.

Steve

Hi-ho,

Just joined the site, and found this great thread. I'm looking to build a router, for cutting mainly plastic and wood, and possibly small brass or aluminium bits. I started the project about 3 years ago, and cad designed my own table, but spent so much time on the design part that I made it too complex to build without a CNC router. :-). This looks like a much better way to get into the game, so to speak.

Just a couple of questions before I purchase the plans, and scrap my own unbuildable design :-)

Are there thrust bearings on the lead screws? The steppers I have (3A 3.1V double stack salvaged from large printers) have 0.5mm end-float, and I can't tell from all the cool pictures if there are any.

If I scale up the X&Y axis to say 36x18" respectively, would 20mm shaft be rigid enough for a 36" X?

Using a good 1/4" trim router, could I realistically cut aluminium & brass with this type of design? Not worried if I have to cut at 5mm/min and 1mm cuts, as the parts woud be quite small model bits.

Thanks in advance for any help, and I promise to post pics if I finally get around to building something!

Was there ever a follow up to the post asking for more information on the Seamless Mechanical Tubing? Is there a McMaster part for them? Have the guys at Rockcliff incorporated the tubing as a potential alternative in the plans? Will anything called "seamless tubing" work, or what should we be looking for?

Thanks!

If there was I didn't see it. I haven't been able to find a source for the material they are referring to either. From what I've read a pipe is actually stiffer than a rod of the same diameter because of the increased surface area.

Maybe someone will clue us noobies in :)

BobL.

Hi-ho,



Are there thrust bearings on the lead screws? The steppers I have (3A 3.1V double stack salvaged from large printers) have 0.5mm end-float, and I can't tell from all the cool pictures if there are any.

If I scale up the X&Y axis to say 36x18" respectively, would 20mm shaft be rigid enough for a 36" X?

Using a good 1/4" trim router, could I realistically cut aluminium & brass with this type of design? Not worried if I have to cut at 5mm/min and 1mm cuts, as the parts woud be quite small model bits.

Thanks in advance for any help, and I promise to post pics if I finally get around to building something!

Hi kiwichris,

There are no thrust bearings.

I am not sure if 20mm shaft is ridged enough if you make the machine 36".

I have cut aluminum with my machine. I had to cut slowly but was impressed with the results.

If there was I didn't see it. I haven't been able to find a source for the material they are referring to either. From what I've read a pipe is actually stiffer than a rod of the same diameter because of the increased surface area.

Maybe someone will clue us noobies in :)

BobL.

HI BobL,

A solid rod is stronger then a tube of the same diameter. But increasing the diameter of a tube or rod greatly increases the strengh.

In Canada, I believe Metal Supermarket has seamless mech tube.

Larry

Hi
our plans do not include a design for a screw thrust, bearing,and yes some stepper motors, like low cost ones in dot matrix printers will have some end play, the router you plan to build, and your need to cut aluminum, end play will be an issue, using a thrust bearing on the screw is always helpful, to remove any load from the motor and stop it at the screw, our router design is very simple and would allow for thrust bearings to be added if needed, when I design stuff I will always try to remove or modify before adding more things = more complex and work, if you take your motor apart you will more than likely find a wavy spring washer, inside one of the end plates, it's usually in the back plate and, it usually pushes on the outside of the ball bearing, this is why your motor shafts have end play, the manufactuer will use this spring washer instead of machining the motor end plates accurately, by replacing this washer with the correct thickness shim or washer will eliminate this end play from the motors
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

A solid rod is stronger then a tube of the same diameter. But increasing the diameter of a tube or rod greatly increases the strengh.



Does 'stronger' include stiffer? It kind of made sense to me that a pipe would be more rigid when I read it on this forum, but hey, what the heck do I know.

I make no bones about being a noobie to this game.

Thanks,
BobL.

Does 'stronger' include stiffer? It kind of made sense to me that a pipe would be more rigid when I read it on this forum, but hey, what the heck do I know.

I make no bones about being a noobie to this game.

Thanks,
BobL.

Hi BobL,

Yes, I should of said stiffer.

eg.

Take a 20" steel 1/2" steel rod, pin the ends and hang a 100 lb weight from the center. The rod should bend about .25".


Now take a steel 1" X .065 tube and pin the ends, add a 100 lbs from the center. The tube should bend about .036".

They both have a area about .19 but the tube is much stronger and stiffer.

Larry

Hurro,

Thanks for the replies.

I might think about the dimensions a bit more, as I'm going to be on a tight budget with this, and I already have the 20mm rods. Ideally I'd like to put a full sheet of balsa wood down on it, but thinking logically about that I'd need a 72" + long machine. Hmmmmm, I really didn't think that through all that well, did I?

I hadn't thought that the larger steppers would have the spring washer setup in them, I'll take one appart and have a look, thanks for that hint.

Cheers, Chris H.

Hurro,

Thanks for the replies.

I might think about the dimensions a bit more, as I'm going to be on a tight budget with this, and I already have the 20mm rods. Ideally I'd like to put a full sheet of balsa wood down on it, but thinking logically about that I'd need a 72" + long machine. Hmmmmm, I really didn't think that through all that well, did I?

I hadn't thought that the larger steppers would have the spring washer setup in them, I'll take one appart and have a look, thanks for that hint.

Cheers, Chris H.
Hi Chris
I am planning to add my version of a Flying Gantry style router, to the plan set in about 2 weeks, a flying gantry will save space, but will usually not be as strong and a little more complex to build compared to a moving table design, a FG style router will shares one common set of rails/slide for all 3 axis's but they do save space with larger machine payloads like yours you should see the additional model added to the plan set soon. with the additional two commercial models added this week, it will now bring the total to 8 models to select from, something for everyone.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Was there ever a follow up to the post asking for more information on the Seamless Mechanical Tubing? Is there a McMaster part for them? Have the guys at Rockcliff incorporated the tubing as a potential alternative in the plans? Will anything called "seamless tubing" work, or what should we be looking for?

Thanks!
One mail order source of Seamless tubing is "Aircraft Spruce &Speciality COmpany..

www.aircraft-spruce.com

They have round and square in 4130 as well as a heap of other stuff that could be useful in home built routrers. They cater to the homebuilt aircraft srowd and have a great paper catalog..

Garry

One mail order source of Seamless tubing is "Aircraft Spruce &Speciality COmpany..

www.aircraft-spruce.com

They have round and square in 4130 as well as a heap of other stuff that could be useful in home built routrers. They cater to the homebuilt aircraft srowd and have a great paper catalog..

Garry

Thanks :)

BobL.

Hi Chris
I am planning to add my version of a Flying Gantry style router, to the plan set in about 2 weeks, a flying gantry will save space, ........
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hi-ho,

Thanks for that, but from a complexity and rigidity point of view I decided a fixed gantry style of machine was probably more realistic for me last time round I got keen.

Although, given how simple your fixed one looks, I might be converted. :-)

What type of X (long) guides are you looking at? I have quite a bit of this 20mm rod, which will be good for the Y and Z, but a 36" X on a FG type machine would require quite a bit of rigidity/strength as it's got most of the machine weight on it...

Cheers, Chris H.

Take a 20" steel 1/2" steel rod, pin the ends and hang a 100 lb weight from the center. The rod should bend about .25".


Now take a steel 1" X .065 tube and pin the ends, add a 100 lbs from the center. The tube should bend about .036".

They both have a area about .19 but the tube is much stronger and stiffer.

Larry

You don't have a link or refernece for those calcs do you? Looking at Nicks comments on making a flying gantry version of his design it'd be interesting to be able to do some maths on different sized pipe/rod...

Cheers, Me.

I hadn't thought that the larger steppers would have the spring washer setup in them, I'll take one apart and have a look, thanks for that hint.

Cheers, Chris H.
Careful, if you take a stepper apart, it ruins them. At the very least you'll lose some of the magnetization. I read this on a manufacturer's website, but can recall which one. All the steppers I've seen aren't meant to be taken apart either.

FWIW,
Jay

Update: found this: http://www.sdp-si.com/D785/PDF/D785MTR094.pdf
Do not disassemble motors. A significant reduction in motor performance will result.

Hey guys,

Seamless mechanical tubing (or SMT) is used for all sorts of things like bike frames, hydraulics, and my personal favorite (sp?) race car chassis....anywhere weight, stiffness, and strength are required. Mechanical tubing (please note, NOT PIPE!) is also available with a welded seam in one side, from when the material was rolled to make a tube, this is also usable but it usually doesn't have the same dimensional tolerances that SMT does. SMT is mandrel drawn, and the tolerances are usually in the TENTH'S of thousands (.0001 to .0009"), where piping can be in the area of +/- .060" and seamed is usually +/- .020" and not completely round.

If you have a metal supplier or industrial hydraulic shop in your area, either they will have it or they can send you to where you can get it.
I'm using 1" o.d. .120" wall SMT for my long axis rails, as I am going longer on my bed than I can get ground rod at a reasonable price for. $7+ /ft for rod -vs- less than a buck/ft for tubing. BTW, regardless of who you get it from, ask them for NON certified tubing, the price difference will absolutely scare you!!:eek:

Also, at a rail length of 51", I have (visibly) much more sag in the rails using 1" ground, pre-chrome shafting than I have in the tubing, almost 3/16" with no load. Checked this one out at work using a pair of Vee blocks on the granite table.

If you stick to the plans for your first machine, it should go together nicely as is. I'm moding the design to suit my own preferences, as I have quite a few successful lower cost DIY builds done already, to give me some idea of what will work -vs- what is likely to give me ulcers.

BTW, maintaining and rebuilding CNC's is also a good part of my day job.:cheers:

HTH,

Iain
Maintenance Supervisor
Weldco Beales (Ontario) Mfg

Now that's some information I can use. I've got a list of metal suppliers in my area and I'm hoping one of them will have some usable material. Now at least I will have a much better idea of what I'm going to ask them for.

Thank you Iain !

BobL.

You don't have a link or refernece for those calcs do you? Looking at Nicks comments on making a flying gantry version of his design it'd be interesting to be able to do some maths on different sized pipe/rod...

Cheers, Me.

I used my FEA program CadrePro to do the calculations.

Larry

Careful, if you take a stepper apart, it ruins them. At the very least you'll lose some of the magnetization.


Hmmmmmmmm,

I don't doubt the manufacturer/supplier of the pdf knows their stuff, but I can't think how careful disassembly of a motor could affect it's perfomance. Unless of course you introduced other magnets, or removed the rotor and left it sitting on a cast iron block for a few hours. Or maybe if it was a double stack/coil design and you mis-aligned the two sets of windings, that'd certainly make a difference to the poor thing!

I did take it to bits anyway, and removing the end was trivial. Low and behold there was a spring washer in there. I almost got the vernier out and measured the end-float and had to check myself...

The reason I don't have a CNC router 3 years after starting the process is that I procrastinated over all sorts of silly little detail... Given I need about 2kg of force on the shaft to to show up the end float, it's a non event... I should just stop playing around and build something!

I used my FEA program CadrePro to do the calculations.

Larry

OK, thanks.. We've got Microstran at work, I might see if it can do FEA on small objects. (We use it for bridges and pre-stressed concrete structures)

The reason I don't have a CNC router 3 years after starting the process is that I procrastinated over all sorts of silly little detail... Given I need about 2kg of force on the shaft to to show up the end float, it's a non event... I should just stop playing around and build something!

Hi,

I know the feeling. You can build the Rockcliff as laid out in the plans very easily. My woodworking skills are very poor but my finished product turned out well.

I don't think you can build a cheaper router plus you can use it to build your larger one.

Larry

Hi All
It's nice to hear you guys have had some good success with your builds,
thank you for the positive comments, on easy and simple construction, I have read some of the comments and improvements you have made and will make some changes and additions you recommended to the plans to help future builders, we will be adding some new machine designs and some different machines to the same plan in the new year, so feel free to get a copy anytime, your registration code will be valid, and if there is anything I can help with please ask or email anytime, and again thank you for sharing your knowledge, and experiences.


Nick Adamo
Rockcliff Machine Inc.


Nick,
I emailed you some days ago asking you for a new code...because I lost it...but not, after all I find it in a old backup...but the code doesnt works with the new update as you mention...I want to start to build the router but with the new specs...
Emailed you some days ago but not a response...Please let me know if Ill get a new code or have to pay for a new one...
Best Regards,
Hector Quintanilla
haqg@prodigy.net.mx

Hmmmmmmmm,

The reason I don't have a CNC router 3 years after starting the process is that I procrastinated over all sorts of silly little detail... Given I need about 2kg of force on the shaft to to show up the end float, it's a non event... I should just stop playing around and build something!

I understand completely...what you might find helpful is to go out and find yerself the absolute nastiest wife you can find.

I mean think about it, from a man's point of view, there really isn't much nastier than a woman who threatens to "...clean up (throw out) this useless junk if you don't do something with it this week!!!!.."

Motivates me something fierce!!;)


BTW, if you can find a copy of Cosmosworks, the FEA module is supposed to pretty easy to use, and the express version that comes in Solidworks isn't too shabby either.

ATB,

Iain

Greetings,

I have a wife who loves to cook. So if I want something new for the workshop I buy her a new pot to go with rest of the collection. Then I can get what I need to do the job.

My machine is still cutting well and will be looking forward for the next build.

CC:rainfro:

Hi All
It's nice to hear you guys have had some good success with your builds,
thank you for the positive comments, on easy and simple construction, I have read some of the comments and improvements you have made and will make some changes and additions you recommended to the plans to help future builders, we will be adding some new machine designs and some different machines to the same plan in the new year, so feel free to get a copy anytime, your registration code will be valid, and if there is anything I can help with please ask or email anytime, and again thank you for sharing your knowledge, and experiences.


Nick Adamo
Rockcliff Machine Inc.


Nick
I am having problems as the password you emailed is no longer working to open the files..
Garry Foster

OK, one more question before I decide exactly what I'm doing...

It's not cheap to get the precision ground srod here in NZ.. (Although one company suggested 'centerless ground rod' which for the purpose should be as good?)

So... What lenghts are the rods in the design as it is?

I've just been through my collection of ground shafting and I suspect I've only got the 'Z' covered, as most of the bits are 450mm long... (not sure why that lenght, but there you go...)

As I'm on a pretty tight budget i'm trying to create a bill of materials for the expensive bits I don't have.

Cheers, Chris H.

All long lengths of precsion ground round rod are made in a machine called a Centerless Grinder, these machines have two grinding wheels and do not requre the need to hold the rod between centers, so long lenghts can be fed thru, hence the name Centerless, more than likely this is the same stuff, and will be more than accurate enough, if your really tight for money, you could even use cold rolled steel, although cold rolled will usually be undersized a bit, and never perfectly round, it could be used, just do a trial fit with the bearings to ensure the fit is not to sloppy for your needs.

All lomg lengths of precsion ground round rod are made in a machine called a Centerless Grinder, these machines have two grinding wheels and do not requre the need to hold the rod between centers, so long lenghts can be fed thru, hence the name Centerless, more than likely this is the same stuff, and will be more than accurate enough, if your really tight for money, you could even use cold rolled steel, although cold rolled will usually be undersized a bit, and never perfectly round, it could be used, just do a trial fit with the bearings to ensure the fit is not to sloppy for your needs.

Could one substitute the 1" seamless tube from McMaster: #9220k52 and use larger bearings #6391K285? Are these precise enough to glide smoothly and accurately? You save about 50% with these and cutting them is probably easier.

Thanks,

I suspect the tube will have too much flex. It's wall thickness of .083" is only two-thirds the thickness in hllrsr's calculations and his measurements were without a load. For the same $15 for a 3' length of the 1" tubing, you can get 3' of 3/4" Oil Hardened rod. The diameter tolerance on the rod is better than the tube, 001" versus .004", which I think could be significant if using bronze bearings.

I'd be interested in seeing the calculations for 3/4" rod, and if possible, what size solid rod would one need to equal the strength of the 1" tube.

The seamless tubing should be ok, the only question I have is about the rigidity of the thinner wall. If you are doing stock to the plans, I say go for it, over that length it should work just fine.

Personally, I'm using 1"od x .120" wall HIGH PRESSURE tubing for a 48" bed and it's working fine at that length.

@ Chris:

I don't have my drawings on this computer, but isn't there a BOM in the metric drawings? In the "Feet and Pounds" drawings, the BOM is quite thorough and all lengths are given.

Iain

who's hoping this *********g virus goes away so I can get on with the build....

Hi-ho,

Havn't purchased the drawings yet, I was just wanting to know if the junk-box rod I have will be long enough for any of the axeses...

I'm waiting for some money to magically appear from another project so I can purchase some bits, my router project is going to be quite budget in terms of new bits purchased, although I have a lot of the expensive bits already...

Cheers, Chris.

I've been having a problem posting, so if this is a double post I apoloigize.

Well i've spent the past few months looking around the internet for a DIY CNC Router, and a few weeks ago I purchased the Rockcliff plans, VERY NICE.

I am building the 12"x12"x4" one from the plans out of 3/4" MDF.

What I went with for motors & electronics is:
HobbyCNCPRO 3 axis kit with 3 200oz inch steppers
1/4" threaded rod
5/8" round steel rod
Hitachi M12VC router

The only thing that I was trying to get ahold of was a decent power supply, which I think I recently got, however I am not sure. I purchased a Celestica 16749 24vdc 12.5a power supply. This came out of a tape library of sorts from what I can tell. What I am trying to figure out is the wiring:

Black -
Black -
Purple -
Blue -
Brown -
Grey -
Orange -
Red -

Thing is, if I measure voltage on black and black, I get 24vdc?
One of the black wires has a connector for frame ground, and if I measure using that as the negative, I get:

Purple - nothing
Blue - +24vdc
Brown - nothing
Grey - nothing
Orange - +5vdc
Red - +24vdc

Using the other black wire, I get:

Purple - negative 24vdc
Blue - nothing
Brown - negative 24vdc
Grey - negative 24vdc
Orange - negative 18.8vdc
Red - nothing


I don't know much about power supply's, but this one has got me stumped. I don't want to hook this up thinking gee there's 24vdc and fry it, and I have been trying to get a wiring diagram but haven't had any luck.

The only other thing I noticed about it is the connector is a 2 row 8 pin connector with 7 of 8 used. If anyone could help me with this I would really appreciate it.

I took pictures of the inside here if it helps any:



This power supply ran me $25.00, and I have seen the same one selling for $125.00 without the connectors or wiring.

Hi charleybot,

Try joining the HobbyCNC Yahoo group. That is the support site for HobbyCNC.

Larry

What size rod should I use? I can get 25mm solid machine rod for $15PM its not precision ground but its machine grade so the tolerances should be quite good
Precision grade is $150PM

I also live in Australia what motors and control box should I use as we have 240V mains

BTW I want it for machining aluminium


Thanks
Shane J

hi guy's newbie here .....i don't know if this is the right section but i wanted to ask all you uk builders where you bought your axis rail kits from as the price of the kits i have found are very expensive any help would be big help ........cheers

hi guy's newbie here .....i don't know if this is the right section but i wanted to ask all you uk builders where you bought your axis rail kits from as the price of the kits i have found are very expensive any help would be big help ........cheers
Are you going to build the commercial version with linear ball bearings or are you looking for bronze bearings ?

Well, you've now lost at least 33% of the motors torque; likely even more...

The motors are magnetised AFTER assembly, and simply removing the rotor from within the stator DOES reduce the motor torque appreciably.

Another thing that "usually" happens is that you chip the ceramic magnets as you're disassembling, and these magnetic "bits" are now introducing all sorts of eddys in the magnetic field that weren't there before... (Not to mention any errant iron filings/swarf/etc; remember these are VERY strong magnets!)

If you simply MUST take a stepper motor apart; you're not alone. Many have tread there before you. And we've all the gotten the weaker motors to prove it!<G> There is a reason EVERY stepper motor mfr says NOT to open the motor! YES, they DO know what they're talking about...

As for the end float REASON; it's pretty simple. Heat expands things. Motors get hot. Therefore, the wave washer acommodates this (in addition to allowing for mfg. tolerance to make the motors less expensive to build).

As for 2KG end-float being no big deal: Think about the weight of the little table and its bearings... And then realise that its "apparent" weight--as seen by the LS/motor axially-- will increase with speed and moreso with direction change.

That you CAN "get away with" using motors with end-float is proven by the folks who arte satisfied with their builds. And IMO that is as it should be with a simple economical design and approach such as this.

But don't kid yourself. The end float WILL show up in many types of work...

Hope this helps,

Ballendo


Hmmmmmmmm,

I don't doubt the manufacturer/supplier of the pdf knows their stuff, but I can't think how careful disassembly of a motor could affect it's perfomance. Unless of course you introduced other magnets, or removed the rotor and left it sitting on a cast iron block for a few hours. Or maybe if it was a double stack/coil design and you mis-aligned the two sets of windings, that'd certainly make a difference to the poor thing!

I did take it to bits anyway, and removing the end was trivial. Low and behold there was a spring washer in there. I almost got the vernier out and measured the end-float and had to check myself...

The reason I don't have a CNC router 3 years after starting the process is that I procrastinated over all sorts of silly little detail... Given I need about 2kg of force on the shaft to to show up the end float, it's a non event... I should just stop playing around and build something!

Well, you've now lost at least 33% of the motors torque; likely even more...

The motors are magnetised AFTER assembly, and simply removing the rotor from within the stator DOES reduce the motor torque appreciably.

etc etc

Ballendo

Arrrr, I didn't remove the rotor. :) Or at least on this particular motor I didn't, but I have done in the past but not in motors used for high-torque applications, so I'd never know.

It is interesting to know that they magnetise them after/during assembly.. Which sorta explains things. I'm not sure you could chip the magnets though unless you were particularly brutish in the taking apart, they are protected by the metal pole plates/fingers in most motors?

On the end float...

Yes, I realise it will show up, but I'm prepared for that emotionally, and I'll be extending the lead screws through the far end of the axis' so I can add a thrust/anti-whip bearing pair if it really is an issue for me. We'll see in a few weeks when I have some spare cash to start building something... Dunno what it'll bet yet, I'm suffering from information overload after only two weeks reading this site! :eek:

just introducing myself:

my name is Bryan and I am currently enrolled at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh for Industrial Design. Ive been here for a year and a half now. Just recently we got a homebuilt 4 axis cnc router dropped off at our school and it inspired me to look into building one for myself. (Our school has 4 other cnc routers, cnc mills and lathes, cnc laser cutters, 3d printers etc but it was this homebuilt machine that really got me thinking). It was just last week that I started heavilly researching this stuff and since have bought the rockcliff plans plus just bought all the recommended hardware from mcmaster carr. I plan on making the table of my machine slightly larger just so i can secure my pieces easier, but other than that my planned modifications will be small. I am experienced in a few cad programs and a few 3d modelling programs also with the machines our school has for me to use I cant help but feel confident in making this machine : ) I plan to have it done in around 2 months (im a fulltime student with a part time job) but ill definitly be posting pictures of the build for everyone. If ya bothered to read this whole long post (im super bored tonight) then thanks and ill be on this forum for weeks to come!

What size rod should I use? I can get 25mm solid machine rod for $15PM its not precision ground but its machine grade so the tolerances should be quite good
Precision grade is $150PM

I also live in Australia what motors and control box should I use as we have 240V mains

BTW I want it for machining aluminium


Thanks
Shane J


shane,
I went with the Xyoltex 3 axis complete kit as this comes complete with power supply set to 220volt. I have had it running for ten hours in one day and did not have a issue. Most Aussies are under the impression that we use 240volt ac but when it comes down to doing the tests in your home the voltage runs at 220volt and peaks at 240volt. Most white goods and tv's are made for 220volts and sold here as 240volt label.

The Xyoltex 3 axis kit is worth the money as it is plug in and you do not need to set anything and easy to follow diagrams.

CC

CC
will theys be good enough for maching aluminium???

cheers
shane J

Gday Shane,
I purchased some Stainless steel for my rods.By all accounts it works a treat. I havent got my machine running but the bushes are completed on all axis. I purhased some stepper motors from ebay at a really good price. I plan on using Xyoltex 3 axis when the time comes.
Great to see another aussie on board.
Regards
Darren Hastings Victoria AUS




What size rod should I use? I can get 25mm solid machine rod for $15PM its not precision ground but its machine grade so the tolerances should be quite good
Precision grade is $150PM

I also live in Australia what motors and control box should I use as we have 240V mains

BTW I want it for machining aluminium


Thanks
Shane J

Shane,
If you go with the kit they are supplied with 279oz steppers. I have engraved bronze plate and the only issue I had is the y axis was flexing because the dremmel was running to slow. Aluminium should not be a issue if you keep the feedrate slow and minmum cutting depth. It hurts like hell when you get your finger stuck in between the table and edge if you don't pay attention.

I got my ground rod from a bearing supplier in the east coast for $59 per metre.

CC

Hi All

This is by way of an introduction - name is Richard - I only discovered cnczone a couple of months back, but have since been trawling somewhat randomly through the forums. It's been fascinating and educational.
I've had ideas of building a small cnc milling machine for a number of years now, mainly to drill and mill PCB's - plenty of thinking has taken place but little action!.

A few nights back I came across this forum and was really taken with the Rockcliff router and the machines that forum members were/are building - also the great discussions going on. I learnt a lot from those.
Needless to say I ended up purchasing a set of plans, although currently havn't been able to view them, as I'm still awaiting a password to be emailed. Hopefully it will turn up in the next day or so.

Just from the pictures I've seen to date, I think my biggest hurdle is going to be sourcing at a reasonable price the lead screws and support rods required - in NZ such items tend to require the house and car to be mortgaged!. Very interested to read others comments and experiences.

Will post some pics when I get into the actual construction.

Richard

in NZ such items tend to require the house and car to be mortgaged!. Very interested to read others comments and experiences.


Never fear.....

The steel shafting you can get from fletcher steel (Tube and steel) for not too much. You're looking for 'centerless ground rod', there are a couple of grades of the stuff, 4143 I think is the harder one they sell, can't remmember off the to of my head. Call their 0800 from the white pages and they'll quote you over the phone.

The bushings from a bearing place will set you back about $8 each, and the leadscrews are threaded rod, from Mitre 10. I got some M6/1mm stuff a while ago for $3.80 per meter. I couldn't find any rod joiners at any of the hardware stores I tried (Bunnings, Mitre10 Mega and the local hammer hardware). A specialist place like Nuts Bolts Screws ltd would probably have them. Can't imagine they'd be all that pricy.

If you want to fall off your chair, call a bearing place for a quote on the rod as well, they will sell you precision ground rod for telephone number prices.. :-).

I was thinking about the rockcliff plan, but didn't in the end, as I'm really penny-pinching at the moment. I've started building a 'junk box special' to get something going. But, from what I've read here, and the good support and feedback that Nick gives via this forum I'm sure you'll do well with his plans.

FYI, my junker machine build log is here (http://http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33153) if you're bored... :-)

What part of NZ are you from? We're a bit thin on the ground on this site...:)

Hi Chris ....(I assume it's Chris?)

Thanks for the post and details - prices your suggesting are more to my liking!. Actually I bought a length of 6mm threaded rod around 12 months ago when I was thinking of designing something myself, however thought the life of it would be quite limited - or the associated nut (which I would make out of some material like acetyl rod) would also be limited, so never pursued the idea further. I then started investigating ACME leadscrew and then ballscrews etc, so thus my comments re price etc. I assume Rockcliff are using threaded rod in their design?.
I still don't have access to the downloaded plans, although I had a phone call from Rockcliff this afternoon with password etc, which unfortunately didn't do the trick - a further download of files necessary on my part I think. (30MB file on dialup will have to happen overnight, tonight).
Full marks to Rockcliff however for making contact and support they have offered me. From where I stand that's great customer service - something I don't see too often these days. Hopefully I'll be reviewing the plans tomorrow.

By the way I'm in Wellington - actually Lower Hutt.
(Still learning how to post mesages etc to cnczone forums, so if this post incorrectly apologies to all).

Cheers
Richard


[QUOTE=kiwichris;264758]Never fear.....

The steel shafting you can get from fletcher steel (Tube and steel) for not too much. You're looking for 'centerless ground rod', there are a couple of grades of the stuff, 4143 I think is the harder one they sell, can't remmember off the to of my head. Call their 0800 from the white pages and they'll quote you over the phone.

The Rockcliff is threaded rod, 1/4 by 20? It's mentioned somewhere in this thread I think. M6 is pretty close, or M8/1.5 will give you faster movement..

Not sure how it lasts in this type of applcation, but there are lots of people on this website using threaded rod / allthread for leadscrews, so it can't be all bad. :-).

Acetyl is good for the nuts from what I understand, I've got some phosphor bronze somewhere I might made some out of for my wee junk-box machine, although I'm just using a bit of cutting board for testing. (HDPE)

Good luck with your build...

Thanks - It'll be a few weeks before I get into it, but will keep you posted. Thanks for the interest.

Cheers
Richard

Got the plans, got the hardware, ready to build but a few quick questions if I could.

#1 Why dont the plans call for the leadscrew to run from the motor to the other end of the machine? I have enough all thread to run into another nylon bolt if there are pros to that, if not why?

#2 Why do the plans call for a nylon nut? I have done a little reading about backlash and am just curious if by using a plastic nut backlash is slightly eliminated or what is the purpose?

#3 You guys who run these machines, are you just careful in setting up the jobs correctly or what is it that prevents the machine from driving the table to its fullest extent into the opposing part of the machine? (I have read about switches that are placed on each axis and im curious as to where i could find out more info on these if need be?)

Thanks in advance for your replies. Im very serious about this as it will be built in my school's shop (Art Institute of Pittsburgh) come the beginning of April, cant wait!

Got the plans, got the hardware, ready to build but a few quick questions if I could.

#1 Why dont the plans call for the leadscrew to run from the motor to the other end of the machine?


#2 Why do the plans call for a nylon nut?


#3 You guys who run these machines, are you just careful in setting up the jobs correctly or what is it that prevents the machine from driving the table to its fullest extent into the opposing part of the machine?




1# You don't need to run the full lenght of the table with the lead screw as it is not needed. I have run mine end to end and passed it through a skate bearing just to stop the whip effect when running at high speeds.

2# It is the cheapest option out there. When it wears out you just whack in another one. I run a teflon rod 2" nut which has been tapped to match the threaded rod and don't have any problems so far.

3# I run limit switches on all 3 axis of the machine (six in total) and these are set at normally closed hooked into mach 3. These you will see on my machine when you look at the Rockcliff web page. The wires that run along the top edge of my machine go to the limit switch.

If you are trying to figure which machine is mine, it is the one from australia and is enclosed in the sound proof box.:)

p.s. Nick if you have more to add please do.

CC

Hello,

I recently finished building my first Rockcliff Router a few days ago and have been "fine tuning" the electronics/software(Mach3). I have to say right off that the plans were EXCELLENT, VERY EASY to follow. I am horrible at cutting wood so for me to be saying this, trust me, this is the one to build!

When I started building this machine I had ordered the Hitachi M12VC router as my spindle, however I am concerned about the weight on the Z-Axis(3+lbs).

Everything was built as close as possible to the plans (I'm not the greatest at cutting wood, so it took some time to get it right). Has anyone else with this CNC router ever used the M12VC as their spindle motor?

I also have an older sears dremel that I could use, but I have seen people not very happy with using dremels. I will be cutting either wood or pvc plastic(1/8" - 3/4") with this machine.

Hello,

I recently finished building my first Rockcliff Router a few days ago and have been "fine tuning" the electronics/software(Mach3). I have to say right off that the plans were EXCELLENT, VERY EASY to follow. I am horrible at cutting wood so for me to be saying this, trust me, this is the one to build!

When I started building this machine I had ordered the Hitachi M12VC router as my spindle, however I am concerned about the weight on the Z-Axis(3+lbs).

Everything was built as close as possible to the plans (I'm not the greatest at cutting wood, so it took some time to get it right). Has anyone else with this CNC router ever used the M12VC as their spindle motor?

I also have an older sears dremel that I could use, but I have seen people not very happy with using dremels. I will be cutting either wood or pvc plastic(1/8" - 3/4") with this machine.
Charleybot

Charleybot

I have not even started mine yet, so take this from someone who has not a clue. I plan on using a Rotozip saw (since I already have one that gets no use at all).

I was looking at the rotozips, might be the way to go...

Charleybot

Charleybot

I have not even started mine yet, so take this from someone who has not a clue. I plan on using a Rotozip saw (since I already have one that gets no use at all).

Hi,

I am finished my machine. I would recommend it to anyone. It went together very easy and was not hard to setup. With my new CNChobby Pro board and 200 oz steppers, it will jog 60 inches per minute without stalling.

If I were to build it again, I would shorten the Z travel. The Z axis tool plate can come down on the X table and still have plenty of travel.

Thanks

Larry

I've just finished my rockcliff well 2 axis anyway and with 260oz steppers i cant get anywhere near 60 inches per minute without the motors stalling. I am using acme thread instead of threaded rod and linear bearings but im closer to 25 ipm. What could i be doing wrong?

I've just finished my rockcliff well 2 axis anyway and with 260oz steppers i cant get anywhere near 60 inches per minute without the motors stalling. I am using acme thread instead of threaded rod and linear bearings but im closer to 25 ipm. What could i be doing wrong?
I am not sure what motor controller you are using, but some controls can "microstep" (divide one phycical motor step into many steps), example: (Xylotex is factory shipped set to 1/8 microstepping) changing the microstepping setting to a smaller increment amount will usually gain speed and power, but at the same time will trade off some resolution.

Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hello all,

I bought the plans for the Rockcliff last week and I am in the process of getting the rods and bushings from McMaster-Carr. Hopefully I can start cutting the MDF this weekend if I'm not too busy shoveling snow.

Here's my question:

I plan on buying the steppers and controls from xylotex. They sell a complete 3 axis package for $475. They also sell a complete 4 axis package for just $50more. Can I buy the 4 axis package and just use 3 of the motors? Then in the future my plan would be to build a bigger table and incorporate the 4th axis. Is it as simple as leaving off the 4th stepper or am I going to get into trouble when it comes to running the software?

Thanks in advance for any help. This forum is a great resource. Hopefully I can post some pictures of my build soon.

Paul

Hello all,

I bought the plans for the Rockcliff last week and I am in the process of getting the rods and bushings from McMaster-Carr. Hopefully I can start cutting the MDF this weekend if I'm not too busy shoveling snow.

Here's my question:

I plan on buying the steppers and controls from xylotex. They sell a complete 3 axis package for $475. They also sell a complete 4 axis package for just $50more. Can I buy the 4 axis package and just use 3 of the motors? Then in the future my plan would be to build a bigger table and incorporate the 4th axis. Is it as simple as leaving off the 4th stepper or am I going to get into trouble when it comes to running the software?

Thanks in advance for any help. This forum is a great resource. Hopefully I can post some pictures of my build soon.

Paul
Hi Paul
Welcome
Buying the 4 axis is good, I have some larger machine designs coming out very soon, and the extra motor will come in handy, and also the extra motor could be used for a rotary turntable and many other things, the 4 axis Xylotex wil have no issues at all with only using 3 motors, if your going to use Artsoft it's as easy as one click to disable the axis.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Rockcliff.

Have been looking at this machine, do you have plans that shows the table?
Dan

Hi Paul
Welcome
Buying the 4 axis is good, I have some larger machine designs coming out very soon, and the extra motor will come in handy, and also the extra motor could be used for a rotary turntable and many other things, the 4 axis Xylotex wil have no issues at all with only using 3 motors, if your going to use Artsoft it's as easy as one click to disable the axis.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hi rockcliff
Larger maching designs:) :) . I have been holding off my build as I really need a 30-36 inch cutting area. Would one of your new designs be in this ball park?

Just been setting up my x axis and somethings just occured to me, the plans say the x rods are 700mm long and the bed is 330mm. so for the bed to traverse from end to end under the cutter it needs to have a travel distance of 660mm which leaves 40mm clearance on the guide rods but the ends go through the supports and have blocks attached all at 19mm thick which means you lose 76mm of your available travel. so in short my cutter won't reach 36mm of the far extends of the table. DOH

This may already be fixed in the latest plans but i havent downloaded them as yet (too late now).

Just been setting up my x axis and somethings just occured to me, the plans say the x rods are 700mm long and the bed is 330mm. so for the bed to traverse from end to end under the cutter it needs to have a travel distance of 660mm which leaves 40mm clearance on the guide rods but the ends go through the supports and have blocks attached all at 19mm thick which means you lose 76mm of your available travel. so in short my cutter won't reach 36mm of the far extends of the table. DOH

This may already be fixed in the latest plans but i havent downloaded them as yet (too late now).

Hi snoyce
the table will be slightly larger than the actual travel of the machine, this is to allow some space around the edge, for clamps or any hold down fixtures, I see you have used one of marchantdice 123 bearing kits, I am currently looking at sizeing a version exactly for the bearings you have, as they have become popular, with the use of those bearing blocks, it will push the z and x slightly forward, but you can easily center your tool by moving the gantry forward or back to suit.

Your machine looks Great.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34152&highlight=rockcliff

Would the motors taken from a HP laseret III (100 oz/in) work on the rockliff machine? Also could I use the power supply from the printer and if so would it need to be modified in any way?

I don't have the plans yet, but I am pretty sure I am going to get them.

I Am using these motors on a larger machine and they do fine, I was told that the power supply would not work. I ended up buying one at a surplus place.Check with the people that you get you controller from they can tell you what you need.
Dan

Hi,
I,ve just ordered kit 3 from merchantdice.. It looks a nice kit having most of what i need in it. Kevin is helping this project along by making these kits. It makes life a bit easyer if you dont understand the metal work side of the project. Having done a calc on the price it also offers quite a cost saving as well. I look forward to building the kit along with the plans from Nick...
If it looks like snoyce,s photos i will be a happy man....

Glen

Hi snoyce
the table will be slightly larger than the actual travel of the machine, this is to allow some space around the edge, for clamps or any hold down fixtures, I see you have used one of marchantdice 123 bearing kits, I am currently looking at sizeing a version exactly for the bearings you have, as they have become popular, with the use of those bearing blocks, it will push the z and x slightly forward, but you can easily center your tool by moving the gantry forward or back to suit.

Your machine looks Great.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34152&highlight=rockcliff

Thanks for the reply, does seem to make sense the only reason it came up was i was planning my first cutting job to be leveling the spoilboard on the bed but obviously you cant level it if the travel does not reach the far extents of the bed.

That said made my first part today and it seems pretty level so far :) I recorded abit of video and took some new pictures which ill post up tommorow. For anyone in the planning stage, it's a great feeling when you see it making accurate cuts. Might not be as accurate as some of the more advanced routers on here but more than enough for hobby use.

Thought of an idea whilst typing this. I could raise the bed slightly on the bearing blocks and move the bearings slightly closer together which would allow the bed to overhang the guide rail supports which would give me that extra bit of travel at the expense of 10mm or so of z-travel.

Cheers

Steve

Hi,
I,ve just ordered kit 3 from merchantdice.. It looks a nice kit having most of what i need in it. Kevin is helping this project along by making these kits. It makes life a bit easyer if you dont understand the metal work side of the project. Having done a calc on the price it also offers quite a cost saving as well. I look forward to building the kit along with the plans from Nick...
If it looks like snoyce,s photos i will be a happy man....

Glen

Hi Glen,

Cheers for the kudos. You will be happy with the marchant dice kit. did you consider the supported rails? I'm pretty sure mine will be accurate enough for hobby purposes but if i was building again which im sure i eventually will (i'm hooked) i'de definately go for the supported rails with the heavy router im hanging off my z-axis i'm not sure how well it would cope with harder materials.

Cheers

Steve

Could one of you post a link for the Marchant Kit?
Dan

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rockcliff-Router-upgrade-Kit-3_W0QQitemZ280089127332QQcategoryZ92150QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Yes i did consider the supported. But what i might do is drill and tap the ends of the bar on lathe. So they are pulled. Then stick the 2 end bits of the table in mdf together and drill. This seems to work on a demo machine i made....

Glen

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rockcliff-Router-upgrade-Kit-3_W0QQitemZ280089127332QQcategoryZ92150QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Yes i did consider the supported. But what i might do is drill and tap the ends of the bar on lathe. So they are pulled. Then stick the 2 end bits of the table in mdf together and drill. This seems to work on a demo machine i made....

Glen

Be interested to see that ( i think i understand what you mean ) on the z axis i just cut the two support members clamped them together and drilled 2 16mm holes through both pieces and the alignment seems to be pretty good.

ok here is a couple of pics with the rod tapped and the screw/bolts in the end of my test machine. I havn't started the rockcliff yet but this is the kit3 i brought off of ebay uk for it. I may tap the ends of the rods for it ....

Good news is the merchantdice kit turned up today....

This Kit (Kit 3) contains upgraded linear components for making a small CNC machine. Plans: www.rockcliffmachine.com
x6pcs 60 Case Round Rail Carbon Steel shafts + x12pcs Pillow Block + x12pcs Linear bearing + x3pcs Trapezoidal spindle +
x3pcs Trapezoidal nut + x3pcs coupling + x10pcs Radial Bearing.

Sizes are:
x2pcs W16mm(h6) x 370mm (14 1/2" approx) Round Rail
x2pcs W16mm(h6) x 575mm (22 5/8" approx) Round Rails
x2pcs W16mm(h6) x 800mm (31 1/2" approx) Round Rails
x12pcs 16mm Pillow Block SC16
x12pcs 16mm Linear Bearings LM16UU
x1pce TR12x3D x 400mm (15 3/4" approx)Trapezoidal Spindle
x1pce TR12x3D x 600mm (23 5/8" approx) Trapezoidal Spindle
x1pce TR12x3D x 850mm ( 33 1/2" approx) Trapezoidal Spindle
x3pcs LRM12x3D Trapezoidal Nut
x3pcs SOT-20C-6.35x6.35
x10pcs 608 2RS Radial Bearing (ID 8mm OD 22mm W 7mm)



All were packed well and are in A1 condition....

The blocks are ace as well as couplers etc..

Great value for the money...and for all us guys on this side of the pond. But i think the guy does ship worldwide

Glen


The 3 x Trapezoidal Spindle is not shown in the picture....

I have started on my Rockcliff router (great plans, BTW) and am a bit uneasy about what motors and control electronics to use. Could someone point out a discussion about that or recommend a kit to buy? Thanks, Ettore

Why don't you look at HobbyCNC, they will have what you need, I went with them because of the help you can get from them and also a lot of the members on this site uses them.
Dan

dan, Thanks for the suggestion; HobbyCNC was on my short list, but I don't know what goes with what, so I'll email them for their recommendation. Ettore

I am in the process of gathering everthing that I need to build a Rockcliff. Originally thought about using my Dremel until I read so many posts recommending against it. A quick search for trim routers found one at Harbor Freight for $19.99. Anyone have any experience with it? Grizzly also has two different ones for $45.

I have an old Black and Decker plunge router that I think is 1/2 horsepower. I think I will dig it out and check it, but I am pretty sure it is to heavy. What is the maximum size/weight router I should use with the Rockcliff?

I've had great luck with the HF Trim Router - and for $20, I'll buy another if it breaks. It has some runout but it's only really noticeable if you stop the cut against an edge. HF also has a cutout tool (42831) (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42831) that is probably the same - the body shape may make it more difficult to mount, but it comes with 1/8" and 1/4" collets. The Trim Router only comes with a 1/4" collet. I bought a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter from MLCS (Item #241) (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/adapbush.html) for $4 (free shipping) that works great.
Ed

I don't think they are the same. If you look at the manual for each you will see that the cutout tool is rated at 115V, 420 watts, 3.5 amps, and 28,000 rpm. The manual for the trim router rates it at 120V, 2.4 amp, 400 watts, and 26,000 rpm.

Good Morning,

I just purchased the Rockcliff plan set and am searching for recomendations as to which unit to build. I would like a machine that will cut shapes from 1/4and 3/8 Acrylc. Is the basic uint capable of doing this task.
I am located in the US and am also interested in finding some parts suppliers.

Thank You
Don Wacker

I have just started my build, I went with a board kit from HobbyCNC and found a power supply from the CNC Zone, look under the classifileds heading and you will see a picture of a tranformer and it is member TCR 2637, he has one with all the parts on sale. This might help you a little.
Dan

If you look at the manual ... People actually look at manuals? I just noted they were both orange and assumed...

Actually though, there are inconsistencies with those numbers. The Cutout Tool at 420 watts would be 3.5 amps at 120V, not 115V. The Trim Router says 2.4 (Startup) amps in the manual - this is a max of 288 watts at 120V and not 400. But if you believe the 400 watt number, it is 3.5 amps at 115V or 3.3A at 120V. To further confuse, the newest HF add for the Trim Router lists it as 110V, 2.4A, 28,000RPM (instead of 26,000).

interesting

Hi, I'm a newbie to the cnc scene. I bought the solsylva plan, but after reading it and browsing the forums here, it seems that although its a great set of plans, it is way too complicated for me. After reading this forum, I just purchased the manual from rockcliff. I'm building it mainly to learn about machine control, so I want to build it quickly. I'm really encourage by those you built it in a weekend. Seems like it takes months to build the solsylva machine. I hope to be able to document my progress here, but I'm real slow. I'll probably build the 'professional' model, since cost is not a huge issue right now. I don't have the plans yet, but if it looks real complicated, I might just buy a 'kit' from joe. I think I'll go with the xylotex complete 4 axis set with the 427oz motors while they have it on sale. I have a bosch 2.25hp router sitting around and I'm hoping to incorporate that into the design. A total newbie question: how does one chose which router bit for a given cut?

how does one chose which router bit for a given cut?

As a newbie myself this is how "i" choose a bit based on research on here i've been using ballnose for finishing and endmill for milling/profiling.

As far as diameter the bigger the better (speed wise) i'm starting to build up a feel for it but it basically comes down to a trade off, weather your prepared to do a tool change reset your offset and then another finishing pass or take longer to do the cut with a finishing pass in one taking less material in a pass thus finishing slower.

Also depends alot on the job your doing how much detail, thickness, material etc. At the moment i'm making some experimental bookshelf speakers and I designed it so there are no sharp inside corners so it meant I could mill out whole parts with a 6mm straight router bit. The speakers are built in 18mm layers so the router bit needed to profile down to 18mm and i can't imagine finding a 2mm router bit that would survive an 18mm deep cut giving me nice sharp inside corners.

The learning is the fun bit!

Steve

Actually though, there are inconsistencies with those numbers....

To further confuse, the newest HF add for the Trim Router lists it as 110V, 2.4A, 28,000RPM (instead of 26,000).

I had noticed the inconsistincies, also. Had not noticed the latest changes though. With so many inconsistencies I think I will stay away from Harbor Freight.

I finally had a chance to read over the rockcliff plans. Very impressive and gave me many ideas and questions. I basically want to build a flying gantry design with a cut area of 24x48inches. I'm looking to modify the 'd' design a bit because I don't like those skate bearings. Just doesn't seem precise enough. I'm thinking about using a square type linear bearing as side rails on the x and y axis and mount a truck directly on the bearing block. Is there a down side to square versus round? To keep things simple, I would also buy a premade z-axis.

http://www.pro.com.sg/LM-Guide.htm

I'm looking to modify the 'd' design a bit because I don't like those skate bearings. Just doesn't seem precise enough. http://www.pro.com.sg/LM-Guide.htm


The skate bearings are very precise. I felt the way you do when I built my 1st machine. It used skate bearings and black gas pipe.

Larry

The skate bearings are very precise. I felt the way you do when I built my 1st machine. It used skate bearings and black gas pipe.

Larry


Thanks for the info. But I still think it can be built simpler. I'm thinking along the line of the 'c' plan using fully supported rails, but instead of mounting the sliding table, I would mount the gantry directly to the rails. That way the x axis is super simple and super strong and straight since it is mounted right on the floor instead of the sides in most of the designs.

Make up a drawing, not quite following.

Larry

I would like to see plans of what you are talking about also.
Dan

I just started a Rockcliff build. Can someone explain the rail supports. I see some folks just use a square block according to the plans and others use a bushing or skake bearing. Is there a benefit to using a bearing or bushing?

Thank you
Don

I was thinking of mounting these for use as the x-axis rails, then mount the gantry on the bearing blocks directly. the rail will sit horizontally on the bottom as pictured rather than on the side vertically.

It looks like it would work, let us know.
Dan

I just started a Rockcliff build. Can someone explain the rail supports. I see some folks just use a square block according to the plans and others use a bushing or skake bearing. Is there a benefit to using a bearing or bushing?

Thank you
Don
Hi Don
if your planning a machine 18" x 18" or Less it's easier to use bronze / rods for good cutting results in most materials, use version A, S, M, SM, if more aggressive cutting is required use version C, or CM which use Commercial runner block/ rail linear bearings. If your planning a larger scale machine see version D which is a low cost DIY fully supported ball bearing slide that can be configured into Fixed or Flying Gantry style machines, a CNC router must have good slides and as longer lengths are needed the slides must be as strong as possible for accurate chatter free cutting, DIY slides can be very good and cost effective for most materials, but will have limitations as compared to a purchased commercial linear bearings, the only thing people don't like about commercial linear bearings is the price.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

I was thinking of mounting these for use as the x-axis rails, then mount the gantry on the bearing blocks directly. the rail will sit horizontally on the bottom as pictured rather than on the side vertically.

Hi Jimluu
I also think I know what you want, see if I got it right, you want version D (flying gantry) but with commercial linear bearings like your picture, that should be very easy to do, the basic design will allow use of your bearings, with mininum rework,I released the DIY Slide Version first as it will be more popular with builders looking for low cost.
Nick

Hi Don
if your planning a machine 18" x 18" or Less it's easier to use bronze / rods for good cutting results in most materials, use version A, S, M, SM, if more aggressive cutting is required use version C, or CM which use Commercial runner block/ rail linear bearings. If your planning a larger scale machine see version D which is a low cost DIY fully supported ball bearing slide that can be configured into Fixed or Flying Gantry style machines, a CNC router must have good slides and as longer lengths are needed the slides must be as strong as possible for accurate chatter free cutting, DIY slides can be very good and cost effective for most materials, but will have limitations as compared to a purchased commercial linear bearings, the only thing people don't like about commercial linear bearings is the price.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com


Thanks, Ive already decided to go the easy route. What I mean are the end supports on either end of the Y axis rods. The plans call for a 2x2 chunk of mdf, Ive seen others that use a bearing/bushing in the ends.

Thanks
Don

Thanks, Ive already decided to go the easy route. What I mean are the end supports on either end of the Y axis rods. The plans call for a 2x2 chunk of mdf, Ive seen others that use a bearing/bushing in the ends.

Thanks
Don

Some will use commercial rod supports, our machine plans are really a guide, there is lots of room for additions and everyone has their own way to get to finish line, that's just part of the DIY world, If you can post a picture of the machine I might be able to identify what was done.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hi Nick. You read me just right. I'm thinking about mounting a commercial rail such as the Drylin T directly to the floor.....no vertical side walls. the gantry slides directly on the trucks. This should make for an zero flex x axis rail and simplify the building process a bit. Simple is good for me because I can't even melt ice much less do any intricate work. I can't draw either, sorry for the poor picture

Hi,
finally got my hands on Rockcliff-CNC plans. :)

Propably I'll start building my cnc after summer. There are so much to study about these machines, specially a control -part of cnc. Rockcliff DIY-plans gave me already many answers, everything looks so 'can do'. Thanks for that good stuff.

Since being a newbie, I started to think if a part between Rockcliff CNC and my PC would be easier to get as a kit. Found this German webshop and 'Starter kit' from there:

http://www.nc-step.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=86&osCsid=hjpl38re6frlm0pjqq734rrdf0


Are those stepping motors powerful enuff on that kit? And do I need anything else but this 'Starter kit', Rockliff CNC and PC?

I'm planning to cut wood stuff with my 'cnc-to-be', mostly spruce and birch (density about 450kg/m3 and 700kg/m3).


-- Pertti
Finland

Hi,
finally got my hands on Rockcliff-CNC plans. :)

Propably I'll start building my cnc after summer. There are so much to study about these machines, specially a control -part of cnc. Rockcliff DIY-plans gave me already many answers, everything looks so 'can do'. Thanks for that good stuff.

Since being a newbie, I started to think if a part between Rockcliff CNC and my PC would be easier to get as a kit. Found this German webshop and 'Starter kit' from there:

http://www.nc-step.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=86&osCsid=hjpl38re6frlm0pjqq734rrdf0


Are those stepping motors powerful enuff on that kit? And do I need anything else but this 'Starter kit', Rockliff CNC and PC?

I'm planning to cut wood stuff with my 'cnc-to-be', mostly spruce and birch (density about 450kg/m3 and 700kg/m3).


-- Pertti
Finland

Hi Pertti
I looked at the motors Stepping motor Japan Servo KH56KM2-951 http://www.japanservo.com/digital/general/c_ste/ they are rated at 132oz.in. they would work but they on the lower end for power requirements if possible try to go with more power in the range of 200oz.in. or higher if you can, also I could not see any specifications of the motor controller electronics kit on their website , you should ask that company if it a step and direction control input from a printer port? and if it will interface to software like mach2/3 or turbocnc.

Why don't you take a look at hobby cnc they have the kit that will work for you and they have a large user base where they can help. That is what most of the members are using.
Dan

Hi! I'm an Aussie and I've just started to make my cutter from the Rockcliff plans. I live on the southwest outskirts of Sydney.

I've cut out most of the components to make the cutter, but my biggest problems are obtaining precision ground rod and stepper motors.

It's been mentioned elsewhere in this forum that precision ground rod is very expensive in Australia. I'm envious when I see the prices listed on US suppliers' sites.

Is there any reason why I can't use bright steel rod in its place?

I can't seem to locate suppliers of 100+ inoz stepper motors. I can get 2nd hand ones on eBay for about AUD$22.

I'm going to make my own 3 axis control board. The PCB is getting etched this week.

I'll post some pics of my unit as it goes together. In the meantime, I'd sure like some contact with anyone nearby.

Old Man Emu

Hello,

Bright steel rod (we call it Drill rod in the USA) will work. But it is not a truly round as precision ground rod.

You might want to try to find precison ground rod that is NOT called "precision ground rod"... Using a term like "hydraulic shafting" may put you into some of what you want at a price that's more reasonable. And since hydraulic shafting IS TGP steel rod, you could even look on th esurplus market for long travel cylinders--air or oil--and use the parts from 'em.

Just a couple ideas. YMMV,

Ballendo

Hi! I'm an Aussie and I've just started to make my cutter from the Rockcliff plans. I live on the southwest outskirts of Sydney.

I've cut out most of the components to make the cutter, but my biggest problems are obtaining precision ground rod and stepper motors.

It's been mentioned elsewhere in this forum that precision ground rod is very expensive in Australia. I'm envious when I see the prices listed on US suppliers' sites.

Is there any reason why I can't use bright steel rod in its place?

I can't seem to locate suppliers of 100+ inoz stepper motors. I can get 2nd hand ones on eBay for about AUD$22.

I'm going to make my own 3 axis control board. The PCB is getting etched this week.

I'll post some pics of my unit as it goes together. In the meantime, I'd sure like some contact with anyone nearby.

Old Man Emu

Thanks, Ballendo.

I'll search for hydraulic shaft.

Old Man Emu

http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hi Old Man Emu
I am not sure if you considered building our DIY ball bearing slide, parts should be less costly in areas like Australia, the sample slide pictured below was made for around $20 less motor, and can be made into fixed or flying gantry machines, the drawing set for this slide are posted in the Rockcliff Machine Builders Group, I relize Australia has higher prices of many things, but you should see my heating bill this year.
Nick
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

http://www.rockcliffmachine.com/images/top-diy.jpg

Hi,

I am new here but I am having a blast learning about the cnc kit. I just got the plans and I am impressed.

I have a couple of questions though. I was planning on trying the Flying Gantry Router design using the ball bearing slide.

It looks as though you end up with a flat surface under the gantry so how would you go about mounting a workpiece?

Also will this design be sturdy enough to mount say a Hitachi M12VC spindle? Does someone have another recommendation for a spindle?

One more, if using a 4 axis design you end up with two motors on the same axis. Would it be easy to run into problems with binding due to the motors not syncing??

Thanks

Hi Old Man Emu
I am not sure if you considered building our DIY ball bearing slide, parts should be less costly in areas like Australia, the sample slide pictured below was made for around $20 less motor, and can be made into fixed or flying gantry machines, the drawing set for this slide are posted in the Rockcliff Machine Builders Group, I relize Australia has higher prices of many things, but you should see my heating bill this year.
Nick


Nick,
That looks to be the ticket! I found some ground rod, but at $75 per metre it's way out of my price range. I would have needed to buy 5 x 1 metre lengths to make the rails.

Is the plan for the ball bearing slide in the 2007 update? I was given a security code when I purchased my set of plans, but thinking that I would not need it again, I threw the piece of paper away that I had written it on, and deleted emails from my In box. Is the any way I can obtain the security code so I can unzip the 2007 plans?

What's the link to Rockcliff Machine Builders Group?

Old Man Emu

Hi,

I am new here but I am having a blast learning about the cnc kit. I just got the plans and I am impressed.

I have a couple of questions though. I was planning on trying the Flying Gantry Router design using the ball bearing slide.

It looks as though you end up with a flat surface under the gantry so how would you go about mounting a workpiece?

Also will this design be sturdy enough to mount say a Hitachi M12VC spindle? Does someone have another recommendation for a spindle?

One more, if using a 4 axis design you end up with two motors on the same axis. Would it be easy to run into problems with binding due to the motors not syncing??

Thanks
You can make this style of slide a flat bed or open bed designs, I personally like a flat bed as with an open bed it still has to be fixed to something, and you end up with a flat bed anyway, there are many ways to hold work down, clamps, t-slot table, vacuum, vise, I am not familar with the hitachi m12vc, but if you stay with routers with no more than a 1/4" collet size should be ok

Nick,
That looks to be the ticket! I found some ground rod, but at $75 per metre it's way out of my price range. I would have needed to buy 5 x 1 metre lengths to make the rails.

Is the plan for the ball bearing slide in the 2007 update? I was given a security code when I purchased my set of plans, but thinking that I would not need it again, I threw the piece of paper away that I had written it on, and deleted emails from my In box. Is the any way I can obtain the security code so I can unzip the 2007 plans?

What's the link to Rockcliff Machine Builders Group?

Old Man Emu
Hi
I am always adding additional designs and updates to the plan set, I really do not go by this years model, when any new designs or updates are finished I release the drawings to the rockcliff builders group for all to use, then add the information to the plan download, If you can send us your email address. I will add it to our builders group so you can have full access, please use the same email address from your original purchase.
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hi,

I am new here but I am having a blast learning about the cnc kit. I just got the plans and I am impressed.

I have a couple of questions though. I was planning on trying the Flying Gantry Router design using the ball bearing slide.

It looks as though you end up with a flat surface under the gantry so how would you go about mounting a workpiece?

Also will this design be sturdy enough to mount say a Hitachi M12VC spindle? Does someone have another recommendation for a spindle?

One more, if using a 4 axis design you end up with two motors on the same axis. Would it be easy to run into problems with binding due to the motors not syncing??

Thanks
I prefer to use an additional motor for a flying gantry style router, the main reasons are cost and simplicity, with mach control software it is very easy (one click) to slave or sync any two axis's together, but your correct, there can be issues when slaving like if one motor stalls or one axis dies, you should always setup homeing switches for both sides for safety, but the alternative of using one motor is actually more costly and complex by time you make and purchase timeing belts, pulleys, belt tensioner, and bearings to support the screws, the cost of a 4x as compared to all the additional parts and work will become very clear, and with belts and tensioners there will be lots of additional load on one motor, leaving less power to drive the table, my opinions are a personal chioce, our flying gantry design is very simple and could be driven with one motor if required.
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Hi
If you can send us your email address. I will add it to our builders group so you can have full access, please use the same email address from your original purchase.
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

I received your reply and have joined that group. Unfortunately, I couldn't use my usual screen name (Old Man Emu), so had to use "eumungerie" which is the name of a town I used to live in.

I downloaded the ball bearing slide plans and will go through them this week. Looks like I might have to pull some roller skates apart to get bearings.

Old Man Emu

Nick,
A couple of questions:
a) have the updated plans been posted yet?
b) where is the Rockcliff Machine Builders Group?

I'm trying to get back on track with the build, got sidelined by some nasty health issues, and am interested in seeing what changes there are to the plans.

ATB,

Iain

I have sourced the bearings I need for my slides - one of my kids doesn't have a set of roller blades anymore.:devious:

I could by new ones at AUD$25 for eight bearings, but the kid never learned to roller blade, so the bearings are "as new". It also lets me throw out some junk from my workshop.

The bearing slide will definately work out much cheaper than the rods. If I can get a Leave Pass from the wife, I might be able to continue work on construction tomorrow.

Old Man Emu

So I am still doing a ton of research and learning as much as possible. One thing that concerns me is the use of a maximum size router collet of 1/4".

Why is that? Is it because of the weight of the router itself or because of the potential of overpowering the table? I am building a flying gantry with diy ball bearing slides.

I would like to at least be able to use 3/8" bits. There are many things that are just not available in 1/4" (t-slot cutter is a good example). I got myself a rigid trimmer router with a 1/4" collet. I would settle for a 1/4" to 3/8" adapter even, but I can't seem to find one. I am almost positive that back when I was machining we had step up collets, but I could be wrong.

I would like to use a touch probe and the smallest I have seen one is 3/8" shank.

Anyone have any advice here??

Thanks,

Aaron

what size motors are you going to use to move your router?

Dan

Dan,

I am going to use the 425oz/in Xylotex kit on 3/8-12 ACME screws. It is going to be a 4 axis setup, I will be using 2 motors for the long travel x axis.

Aaron

So I am still doing a ton of research and learning as much as possible. One thing that concerns me is the use of a maximum size router collet of 1/4".

Why is that? Is it because of the weight of the router itself or because of the potential of overpowering the table? I am building a flying gantry with diy ball bearing slides.

I would like to at least be able to use 3/8" bits. There are many things that are just not available in 1/4" (t-slot cutter is a good example). I got myself a rigid trimmer router with a 1/4" collet. I would settle for a 1/4" to 3/8" adapter even, but I can't seem to find one. I am almost positive that back when I was machining we had step up collets, but I could be wrong.

I would like to use a touch probe and the smallest I have seen one is 3/8" shank.

Anyone have any advice here??

Thanks,

Aaron
Hi Aaron
With these rotary tools the common sizes are 1/8, 1/4 and larger tools are 1/2 there really is no standard on the outside of the collet shapes, the collets for rotary tools will come from the specific manufacturer of the rotary tool, when you were machining using a full size vertical mill you probably were using R8 collets which is very common for milling machines and available in many sizes, the thing you call a touch probe is that an edge finder or wigler? 3/8 body with a .200 shaft for finding an edge,

Actually I was refering to a probe for mapping 3D surfaces similar to what Renishaw makes only smaller. I think all of my edge finders are 3/8 as well now that you mention that.

I guess the big question here is can I get away with running a full size router? (1/2" max collet) I could save on the overall weight of the unit by removing the base and only mounting the spindle.

I guess I don't really see what the limitation would be. The only thing that would worry me is the weight of the spindle. I figure most of your smaller trimmer routers/dremmel around 3lb. Without the base even the lighter full size spindle motors are going to run you close to 7lbs.

I would not expect to have a drive power problem with the 425oz motors?

I am not looking for a definate answer here just the advise of the experts. Anyone actually attempted something similar to this?? I am really hoping to get the larger collet size as it really open's up the tool selection.

By the way I will be machining wax,mdf,foam,plastics and other prototype material. I do not intend to attempt any type of metal or other real stiff material.

Thanks a lot for the consideration and advise, makes a big difference for people like me trying to figure all of this stuff out.

Aaron

It looks to me like you will have all the power you need, also I think that you will have the power to lift a 7 pound router, I am using one half 10 on my unit, you may want to take a look at that.
Dan

Dan,

What are you running for step motors? What do you have for a spindle? Just curious 1/2 seems like a pretty heavy lead screw, I was thinking 3/8 was pretty stiff heh.

Aaron

You might want to take a look at the Taig ER16 spindle, it takes collets up to 3/8 and is very solid. I'd use a variable speed DC motor instead of the fixed speed AC motor and step pully that Taig sells. I think the max speed is under 10K if that's an issue for you.
Jim

You might want to take a look at the Taig ER16 spindle, it takes collets up to 3/8 and is very solid. I'd use a variable speed DC motor instead of the fixed speed AC motor and step pully that Taig sells. I think the max speed is under 10K if that's an issue for you.
Jim

I have a Taig CNC mill, I have both the standard spindle and the ER spindle I don't have a Tach but Taig says with the 1/4 HP motor the top spindle speeds are 10,000 RPM and it isn't very good for cutting wood, trust me on that!!! as for weight, of a router with a 1/2 in spindle, it really doesn't seem like it would weigh much more than my 1/4 HP motor, I believe the motor weighs around 7 or 8 pounds,and I only have a 180ounce/inch pac.Sci stepper I have it tuned to 25 IPM with slow acceleration using Mach3.
.The spindle it's self is quite light BUT the bearings are not rated at much over 15,000 if that
Fortunatly I am an assistant instructor in a Machine Tool Technology class, so I have access to some equipment, I am ordering the plans this comming week, I'm not sure about using 1/4 20 threaded rod for lead screws, Perhaps 1/2 acme with a delrin nut. After refitting a Bridgeport clone with Ball screws, I don't think I'll be doing that either.
I've been lurking on most of the DIY forums for a year or two and from what I've seen, read, and understand, it's down to the Rockcliff or spend 5K DUH
The only thing I'm wondering about is the stability of the lead screws,
and how to afford enough metal for the Gantry and Table,

Ken Ferrell

Aaron, I have seen several of these machines that has been built, some overbuilt and some, using the cheap route that did just as good. I am using a old 1/4 in - one and a half horse power Craftman router. as for stepper motors, I have 180 oz on the x drive and 100 oz off of old HP Printers for the other two. My unit is 24 X 24 and I cut mostly 1/4 in plywood, as I build all wood clocks and I wanted it to cut the gears.

I am 72 and have seen a lot of people that wants to (over do) by this I mean, put too much money in things that they really don't need and then not enouth in places where they need to. I have tried the 1/4 - the 3/8 and I can tell you - you will be better off - up front to use the 1/2 inch for your drive screws.

PM some of the people that has places plans here on the Zone for us to download and build and ask them - also find some of the members that has a lot of posts and ask them, that is what I did, and I threw three away before I got the one I wanted, because I did not look into it like I should.
I am not puting any plan down, but each one is not built to do everone job, you have to change it up some - so talk to the people that are doing what you want to do.

Dan

Thanks everyone for the good advice.

I am going to go with the 1/2-10 2 start lead screws with delrin nuts from dumpster. It looks like this setup, with the 425oz motors, I should have no problems with a 1/2" collet router spindle. Well I am going to try it anyway. If it is too much, it's too much and I will tone it down. The only real worry I have is the weight on the Z axis motor shaft. I plan on trying to put togather some type of bearing block for the lead screws. That coupled with the 5 turns per inch screws, I should not have that big of a whip problem even though my slides are on the long side.

Can't wait to finish up my research/design and start the build process!

Thanks for all the help and good advice,

Aaron

can anybody tell me how to flat the table?

Aaron

You made a smart move.

Look at (LION CLAWS) plan he uses a one half roller bearing for his screws, that is what i did on mine and it works great.

Good luck and keep the Zone posted, that is the way we all learn.

Dan

I thought I had convinced myself not to post this, but the more I think about
it the less certain I am, so I’ going to post it anyway. In the end it might help
to point someone else in the right direction, or steer them away from the
wrong direction.

I received my copy of the Rockcliff plans the first of this week, and I’m
looking at a couple of different options The ‘A1 – A10’ or ‘S1 – S10’ plans
(still using MDF), or a Modified version using UHMW (high strength HDPE)
Channel for supported guide ways & strips for linear bearings (my design,
currently on the drawing board, if I go this route I’ll post pics & info).

My Question:
The plans have a callout for a McMaster-Carr part number to use for rails,
which I found without any problem. The material is a bit more expensive than
I was thinking / led to believe it would be, but the biggest issue is that they
have it marked for a TWO WEEK DELIVERY TIME. I did a little shopping around
on the WEB and found material at onlinemetals.com with the same diameter
and composition for considerably less money but the material at
onlinemetals.com has no information with regard to the finish. The McMaster-
Carr part specifies Tight-Tolerance RodsPrecision Ground Finish, Diameter
tolerance is -0.0005".

Would anyone happen to know, if I order from onlinemetals.com, will I get
something useable or end up with rod that has a finish like “Black Iron” Gas
Pipe?

Other sources for the solid ground rod specified in the plan set? I have
already checked MSC, & Grainger, Motion Industries WAY more money than I
have to spend on this. I’ll be checking with “ Metal Supermarkets” on
Monday. What about ENCO, anybody order rod for the Rockcliff from them?

Thanks

PS I know I’m being vague with specifics on the rod, but I don’t know if I
have a right to divulge info in the Rockcliff Plans

I'm am printing my plans as I type this, I have most of my controll figured out and on hand, what I need to consider now is what to use for a spindle? Seems like that's a problem every one has, I really am not that concerned with ABSOULUTE accuracy, since this is mostly for doing wood working, and I don't need it for metal I'll settle for +/- .010.
I don't want to use a Dremel tool due to it's lack of torque, I was wondering how those who have used a rotozip feel about them and what are the options with a trim router, I would like the option of being able to use 1/8 shank ans well as 1/4 inch shank tools.
My fixed gantry unit will have a cutting area of 18"x16" I have some 3/4 drill rod and UHMW for my slides, and after careful consideration think I will use 1/2-20tpi with delrin nuts for lead screws, also I thought there was a Yahoo forum for the Rockcliff builders, any information?
As soon as I get started which will be when the rain stops, I'll post some pics
Thanks
Ken Ferrell

You can get the ground shafting from metalsupermarkets, it should be cheaper than mcmaster this shafting has many names that it is called by different suppliers and people, the official name used by metalsupermarkets should be "1045 Ground Shafting "see Don's Machine I think he he used shafting from metalsupermarkets and bearings from Lowes http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35599&highlight=rockcliff he also used a nice rotary tool it looks very compact and sounds good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pg3rXm5sxA

We have had the group open for members for a few months now, we do invite all who purchase a plan, but unfortunately the invitations are sent thru yahoo with an email address, and some do not get sent, if you have a spam filter turned on or some unknown reason, if you have not recieved an invitation to join from Yahoo please send me an email and I will re-send
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

scratch, I ordered the ground rod from McMaster and received it, shipped from Chicago to Atlanta, in just 2-3 days; about a month ago. Maybe you should contact them directly about availability and shipping time. ettore

Well, KRUD! I just visited my local Metal Supermarket and they quoted
$70.00 (USD) for the six pieces cut to legenth. Called McMaster to verify the
TWO WEEK delivery and they said that it was valid. If I can’t find that rod
Soon, this project may become ANOTHER ONE on the BACK BURNER.
The only other option would be to go ahead with the UHMW Suported Slides.

OK, I bought the UHMW ‘U’ channel material I talked about
earlier, McMaster Part Number 8672K31. 0.125" thick walls & base.
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3464
(I miscalculated **, I should have bought the 9928K53 stuff,
but I’ll make what I got work). My slides are cut from HDPE one inch wide
by three quarter inch thick, twelve inches long.
By the time I finished sanding the slide to remove saw marks I ended
up with 0.97x” wide. That’s alright, as the upright legs have
some ‘rake’ to them, not exactly 90 degrees to the base, which
allows the side walls of the channel to grip the sides of the
linear sides just fine.

The attached picture is a rough sketch of the end view; the ‘bow’
in the base and ‘rake’ are exaggerated in the drawing for
EMPHASIS. When the bottom of the channel is screwed to the MDF
base, I expect the inward side pressure of the upright legs to
decrease a bit.

** As I said, I miscalculated the size of the channel, if I had
used the smaller channel (part number 9928K53) I could have made
the slides three quarters wide and had more flexibility in their
height.
(As an afterthought, if the ‘Y AXIS’ was to be rack & pinion
driven the motor-pinion mounted thru the bottom of the base and
rack mounted to the bottom of the sliding table this existing
channel slide thickness may be an option.)

Small acid/epoxy or foam paintbrushes could be attached to the
ends of the slides to keep the channels clear of chips, dust,
etc. If foam brusher were used, they could retain lubricant for
the slides (WD-40 was found to work rather well).

The entire slide & channel combination could be inverted so that
the channel is attached to the bottom of the sliding table. This
would be a more economical way to go as it would require less of
the UHMW Channel material.

One other thing I’ll mention right now is ‘slick tape’ which is
a HDPE / UHMW type adhesive backed tape in various thicknesses.
Rockler sells some as ‘NYLO-TAPE’ in 10 and 20 MILs
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=214
McMaster sells thinner versions as ‘Strong and Slippery UHMW
Polyethylene Tape’
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3328
These tapes could be used to adjust the size of plastic parts or added to
sliding parts made from MDF or other material.

Hi just a little off topic here do the Rockcliff people do these plans with a moving gantry instead of the moving table ???

Hi just a little off topic here do the Rockcliff people do these plans with a moving gantry instead of the moving table ???

Yes they include option for moving gantry also larger model
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37457&highlight=rockcliff

You should be able to purchase "drill rod" from almost anybody. The specs are usually +/-.0005". I have purchased the cheap drill rod from Wholesale Tool and it worked great.

can anybody tell me how to flat the table?

Get all the axis as close as you can the face it off with your router after the machine is all done. They dont really make a real facing bit with a .25 shaft but a plain woodworking .5 router bit does a pretty good job.

Don

Hi everybody, I am so envious on you lot , as I also have build the Rockcliff
Machine, but "Alas" I can not get it going, I have got some movement some time and sometime none, I have tried very hard to make my Mach3 and I find
that no matter how I configure it makes no difference as I could not make it work properly, I have obtained the Xylotex stepper motors. Please Help.
I need step by step instructions from the beginning, the motor screws are 1/4 20 TPI , thats all IO know.

Hi Harry
you might have the speed set too fast, try starting at a slower speed in mach.
Mac

Hi Harry
you might have the speed set too fast, try starting at a slower speed in mach.
Mac


A good starting point would be 32000 steps, should get you real close with 1/4-20.

Don

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34436&d=1175128937

We are trying to make rail adjustment blocks like the ones in the above build (link). I didn't think making them out of wood would be a good idea as it would be hard to tap. We tried nylon, but don't really have the tools to work that well (it ate two 1" drill bits). If someone can give us pointers on how they've built the adjustment blocks we'd appreciate it.

The linked picture is my machine, so believe me when I tell you they're made of 3/4" MDF. I used a spade bit on a drill press for the center hole. I made a jig to hold the pieces on my small drill press for the holes in the sides - with 48 holes to drill it made it a lot easier. The MDF taps easily. Some super glue on the threads after tapping will help keep them from stripping.

I don't understand how you're ruining drill bits on nylon, I'd think it would easier to drill than MDF.

Here's a picture of the build before paint - proof that they're MDF.
Ed

I have build that machine, and no adjustment blocks where needed, as I have
drilled the guide holes together, and to the right size of the guide bars, then I made plastic end caps to hold them in place, I noticed that your guide bars
are far too big, all other guide bar brackets where also drilled together to size,
however as you have already build the machine, I suggest that you make the blocks from aluminium and screw them to the sides first.

Hi My name is Harry, I want to thank all those guys that have helped with my
Mach3 and my "Rockliff router, I have now made freinds with the machine, and I am having fun using it, the only thing I wuold like to have help on is
"to make the fast travel to go faster" the G00, and as for the rest, I am putting in more time to understand Mach3, I also think that Mach3 is a much
too powerfull programe for the ruoter guys, who want to use 3 axis

I was surprised about the trouble milling the nylon as well. It was 3/4" thick 6/6 nylon from mcmaster. First I tried a brand new 1" spade bit in my drill press that didn't even take the cut lines off the nylon. Second my son and I tried a 1" twist bit that was also fairly new in a hand heald drill. Neither made it all the way through.

Thanks for the tip on the MDF. We have our machine pretty much done, however something must have moved on the X rails before the glue dried and we're getting binding. I want to take those blocks off and make adjusement blocks for those rails.

We will try the mdf method. What is that hardware you used for adjustment screws? It looks like it's more than just a screw. I got some 1/2 20 screws we were planning on using.

-Mike and Ian.



The linked picture is my machine, so believe me when I tell you they're made of 3/4" MDF. I used a spade bit on a drill press for the center hole. I made a jig to hold the pieces on my small drill press for the holes in the sides - with 48 holes to drill it made it a lot easier. The MDF taps easily. Some super glue on the threads after tapping will help keep them from stripping.

I don't understand how you're ruining drill bits on nylon, I'd think it would easier to drill than MDF.

Here's a picture of the build before paint - proof that they're MDF.
Ed

Harry;

I went with Quickstep. It is one of the best that I found, Take a look at it if you want a simple software setup.

Dan

mwixon -
The sides on the blocks were drilled .201" (#7 bit or you can go a little oversize with a 13/64" bit). The holes are threaded 1/4-20 UNC. The bolts are hex head 1/4 x 1" and there're 1/4" nuts on the bolts. Once the bolts are adjusted, you tighten the nut (slightly) to keep the bolt from vibrating loose.
You may be able to get away with 1/2" screws, but the MDF is only 3/4" thick - it may split on you.

The blocks are held to the machine with #10 x 1 1/2 machine screws (one in each corner). I threaded all the places where they mount: on the ends of the machine, the gantry, and the Z axis.

All the dimensions are in the JGRO drawings.

Harry -
I sure wish I could have drilled mounting holes for the rods perfectly (it would have saved me from drilling 156 holes and tapping 96 of them. These blocks, however, give me the ability to fine tune the table to ensure the X, Y, & Z are all perpendicular to the table and the X & Y are perpendicular to each other.

Ed

Well let’s see got these planes about 6 weeks ago and have been reading everything I can find about them and cnc working. And I think I am ready to start cutting for the build today. I Just wonted to intro myself. I am planning on changing mine though. I am a handy man in so cal so I got a lot of leftover stuff from different jobs. Like a set of ball bearing drawer slides rated at 500 lb I am thinking of using on my y and tons of left over ply wood witch I think is better than mdf. I saw people talking about using them on one of the other threads so any way wish me luck
Gemel

I like the basic design of the Rockcliff router but I was curious why the Y axis attachment points are so far forward?

Looks to me like they could be moved towards the rear in order to get more x axis working space? Basically you would turn the gantry uprights around the other direction.

I need to drill 18" long circuit boards and I would probably have to alter the basic design to get a much longer x axis without making the machine any longer than is necessary.

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Cnc/images/RockcliffChanges1.jpg

Also, it is possible to shore up the X axis shafts if you are able to machine new bearing surrounds. Some shaft designs have an open bearing design and a support that the shaft sits on.
The support can be as complicated as a drilled metal piece that is screwed to the shaft or you could use a hardwood piece with an arc the same as the shaft and glue it to the shaft.
It's a bit more complicated than the simple Rockcliff design was intended to do but it can be done. The bearing surrounds have to be aluminum or some very stiff material and the bearings have to have an open bottom, which you can cut out yourself after they are pressed or glued into the surround.
You can then bolt your X platform onto the bearing surrounds.
If your shaft is sagging, you need to shore it up. :)

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Cnc/images/ShaftSupport.jpg

Greetings, I just joined and like many others here am totally new to CNC'ing but am ordering the plans and going to take a crack at it. My needs are mostly for etching or engraving small parts for computer case mods. I would also like to be able to fabricate small lightweight Alum parts (knowing that with this light of a machine, I would need to cut very very slowly and shallow), how is your stock material that you are going to cut/route/engrave into held down to your tables?

Also the cutting and assembly of the hardware doesn't scare me, nor does wiring up the drivers/motors. But I am completely clueless when it comes to the software and actually getting from drawings to finished product. I am a Systems Engineer by trade so I am very computer savvy. Does anyone know of tutorials or basic how-tos for beginners like me? (Besides these forums which are a wealth of info) Assuming I go with a Hobby CNC package, which CNC software would be a good choice for a novice?

I made my unit 24 inches long.
As for software, I use SheetCan to set everything up with and then Quick step to drive my unit.
There are several free one on the Zone - You need to check them out and find the one that you think will work for you.
Go to the software sites, everyone here on the zone will help you - Good luck with your build.
Dan

How long does it usually take to get the password after the order is placed? I am anxious to get started!!

Walt

2 to 3 days

EL34 (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/member.php?u=68559),

Assuming that the RockCliff table travel is at least the 18" that you need, I have two suggestions to consider.

1. Build the z-axis without the router mount blocks. Mount a second vertical plate on the rear of the z-axis. Rotate the z-axis assembly 180 degrees and install it on the y-axis shafts so that the z-axis bearing shafts are behind the y-axis shafts. Add router mounts to the new vertical block that is now facing toward the right (forward) in the photo. Join the top and bottom of the two vertical blocks with longer horizontal blocks. This should move the router rearward an inch or two and make the z-axis assembly more "balanced" around the y-axis rails.

2. Assuming that the above suggestion isn't quite enough, consider installing the gantry side plates reversed from that shown in the photo. That will move everything rearward some more.

One or both suggestions may be enough to do what you need.

I really like the Rockcliff design in many ways for its simplicity, and almost built one, but am building the Solsylva 25x37 machine for a couple of its features that I need. But an all aluminum plate RockCliff with supported precision shafts and linear bearings and acme screws or even ballscrews would be really nice.

CarveOne

Hello All,
I'm considering building the rockcliff to repay a good friend for allot of hard work on his end. I'm thinking of building using aluminum sheet as I have quite a bit on hand. do the plans show any alternate sizes, widths, etc when using metal for the sub assemblies. are there any pitfalls that come to mind ? thanks tenmetalman

The basic Rockcliff design is open to manufacture from various materials and frame sections. (not supported by Rockcliff) We can offer to cut linear round rails and trapezoidal spindles to suit your application, all the components to upgrade your modified machine to industrial standards with zero backlash (ballscrews and Hiwin profile rails) send your enquiries to Kevin

Marchantdice
www.worldofcnc.com

I made my unit out of Aluminum, 1/4 and 1/2 cutting it on a table saw and drilling my holes on a old drill press I have. My unit is a 24 x 24 inch and I took ideas from severay builds here on the Zone and did not have to buy a lot of pre-fab parts.
Best of luck on your build, if I can help, let me know.
Also when you get to the point you need bits I found some great 1/8 and smaller from a guy by the name of J. P. Moran Jr. for about $1.00 each you can check out his on line store at

http;//Vendio.com/Moranent/store.html

Dan--

Dan,
thanks for your reply, did you post any pictures of the construction or finished router? I've tried the link you posted and he's evidently quit his site. thanks Paul

There is a gentleman that is to come by next weekend and take some pictures of my unit and post them on the Zone - I do not have a way to do that.

If you will e-mail Mr. Moran at ToolsAndTunes@Juno.com
He will tell you all you need to know about his product and give you a new link to his EBay sale items and his on line store.

I will let you know the picture of my unit is posted.

Dan

Hi all. My son and I finally completed our machine. The last hurdle was the tool mount and I finally bit the bullet and went over to K2CNC and bought one of theirs.

Now for setup. We know nothing about this and I haven't seen a primer on this site or the rockcliff site. We're using the 269 oz Xylotex driver and drives. We're using Mach3 to control it all. I've got lots of questions, please excuse the newbeeness of it all:

The moving table is supposed to be Y axis I believe. This should move with the up and down arrows in jog mode - Correct?

Which direction should they move when I push the up arrow?

Same question for the x axis.


Should Z move down when I push page down? Mine moves Up (tool raised).

Where is Zero? I guess what I'm asking is where to I position everything before I hit "Zero" in mach?

Thanks in advance - this part is confusing us!

-Mike

Hi all. My son and I finally completed our machine. The last hurdle was the tool mount and I finally bit the bullet and went over to K2CNC and bought one of theirs.

Now for setup. We know nothing about this and I haven't seen a primer on this site or the rockcliff site. We're using the 269 oz Xylotex driver and drives. We're using Mach3 to control it all. I've got lots of questions, please excuse the newbeeness of it all:

The moving table is supposed to be Y axis I believe. This should move with the up and down arrows in jog mode - Correct?

Which direction should they move when I push the up arrow?

Same question for the x axis.


Should Z move down when I push page down? Mine moves Up (tool raised).

Where is Zero? I guess what I'm asking is where to I position everything before I hit "Zero" in mach?

Thanks in advance - this part is confusing us!

-Mike

Hi Guys
Set your axis direction in relation to the cutter or rotary tool, if you jog the page up key Z or cutter should move up, with the moving table Y axis if you jog the up arrow key the table should move towards you, any axis can be reversed in Mach.

Without limit switches, Zeroing can be done according to the part that is being cut, ( example: Mach roadrunner sample) zero is lower left corner,

Hope that helps
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Thanks a lot for the pointers. That got us going and we were cutting out roadrunner! Our machine uses a rotozip as the tool and everything was going smoothly until the motor coupling on the y axis came off. In other words the mcmaster carr coupling with the two set screws came off of the threaded rod.

This is not the first time this has happened. I ground a flat on the threaded rod to accept the set screw, but I'm still having problems keeping the rod attached. Does anyone have any suggestions on a better attachment method?

Thanks

-Mike & Ian.

What couplers are you using? Are your couplers flexible? If they're solid, that could be why they're coming loose. If you ground a flat on the rod and they're still coming loose, the set screws are probably vibrating loose on you. Try some loctite on the set screws.
I'm using Lovejoy connectors on the threaded rod and they only have a single set screw - have had no problems.
Ed

I'm using the mcmaster connectors that are on the pdf plans. Mcmaster 6412k11

These do have two set screws. I'll look into locktite or maybe I'll google the lovejoy connectors you mentioned.

Thanks for the tips

-Mike

Are there any stores in Canada for bronze sleeve bearing (equiv. to 6391K415) and motor coupling (equiv. 6412k11)?

Please and thank you.
Alex

Are there any stores in Canada for bronze sleeve bearing (equiv. to 6391K415) and motor coupling (equiv. 6412k11)?

Please and thank you.
Alex

Hi Alex
For Canada use https://www.motionindustries.com (https://www.motionindustries.com/) or Canadian Bearings Ltd., both will have the bearings and couplings,

http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

Thank you for your info.

Alex

This is my first post here on cnc so I hope this is the proper way to post. I purchased the Rockcliff plans and received my code in less than 24 hours. I have not been through all the drawings yet but did study the A and the D drawing sets. I will be in the area of a metalsuppermarker next week. If I understand this properly and build the linear bearing assemblys in the D drawing sets I would use 3/8 ground shaft instead of 5/8. Or dose it matter?

Ok guys, I'm seriously thinking about going with the "Rockcliff" large flying gantry model with 288 oz stepper motors. I've asked some questions of Rockcliff and Nick was very quick to respond. Has anyone built the large flying gantry model yet? How does it do and what (if any) suggestions do you have?

I want to do cabinet doors, signs, and just basically play.

Thanks

Double entry...sorry

This post will serve a couple of purposes, first since I've ordered plans i would like to bump this discussion to the first page. Additionally I want to get rid of that annoying first post NAG!