feed rate when i carve plaque's is 40ipm plunge at 30.

V-care will set that up for you mostly just use their defaults for the bits.

In MDF i cut at 60 or 80 usually, it is fast enough, and 30 plunge is usually the default, with .15-.2" passes.

Yea i forgot the 269oz are bi-polar 4 wires.

Oops, GER21 is correct they are 2.0a so v-ref is 0.36

http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H286-20-08B.pdf

Right I understand - thanks.

With 8 wire motors rated bipolar parallel, bipolar series amps = 1/2 parallel, and unipolar amps = parallel/1.4, or parallel X .7 (2.8/1.4 = 2, 2.8 * .7 = 2)


Thanks Gerry

Belkin 22AWG 4 core unsheilded ordered from Jameco, but use seilded if you have it.

Make sure in Mach 3 under Config-General that you set debounce to something like 1000

Thanks David, I missed that setting. I ran 4 cuts last night and the switches did not trip, problem solved. :)

Joe why are you using a multiplier of 1.8 when calculating my VREF, as HobbyCNC use 1.4 giving me a vref of.28?

Thanks

David

Joe why are you using a multiplier of 1.8 when calculating my VREF, as HobbyCNC use 1.4 giving me a vref of.28?

Thanks

David

Thats the setting in my paperwork, what board do you have. rev. number? i will look it up.

Joe

few things david.. lol sorry to hit you up so much, but like I said before, trying to do the things the same as you or along the same lines.. and the faster I can get this thing tested the faster I might be able to help determine whats wrong on yours..

1. The inputs on your controller x y z, are the ones above where your cables come out to each motor, are those for the limit switches?

2. Looks like you got the +5 (maybe) from cnc4pc. Did you go with 2 sep power supplies one for the xylotex drivers + motors, and one for the multifunction card? I saw one guy in the xylotex forum said he has run it for over a year with sharing the same power. Your feelings?

Also, I know again I'm really asking to be called a hand holder lol but do you have any photos of the inside, the wiring really. I don't need a really long explanation, just a snap shot of what is going on. I could wing it and do it how I think I should be doing it but I don't want to burn it out or fry it or any of that. The xylotex side is easy, power/setup/motors/parallel.. that's simple, just when you get into the multifunction card and limit switches and e-stop, you're the only one that has been clear at all on how it's supposed to work ;). So that's why I'm picking on you in particular. Thanks bud.

I have the 3 axis Microstepping Pro Rev 1 not the older 4AUPC board.

David

I have the 3 axis Microstepping Pro Rev 1 not the older 4AUPC board.

David

Can you give me link to exact one you have? there are 4 differnt boards i believe.

http://www.hobbycnc.com/hcncpro.php

All i find on the yahoo group is in french, Yes you are correct on the 0.14 vref.

Un courant d’alimentation peut être réglé pour chaque moteur indépendamment. La valeur du
courant doit être comprise entre 500mA et 3A par enroulement. Alimenter la carte avec une
alimentation stabilisée (connecteur TB6, 12V mini, 42 V maxi).
Utiliser un voltmètre, la sonde « moins » du voltmètre sera connectée au « moins » du
connecteur d’alimentation (TB6), le sonde « plus » posée sur la zone de test à droite d’un des
potentiomètres de réglage (VR1, VR2, VR3). Lorsque l’on tourne le potentiomètre dans le
sens des aiguilles d’une montre, on augmente le courant et vice versa. Avant de commencer
ce réglage, il faut couper la limitation automatique du courant de repos (placer un cavalier sur
J4).
Tension lue (en
Volt).
Courant d’alimentation
(en Ampère) par phase.
0.070 V 500mA
0.14V 1A
0.21V 1.5A
0.28V 2A
0.35V 2.5A
0.42V 3A
Pour tous ampérages ne se trouvant pas dans la liste, il suffit d’appliquer la formule de calcul
suivante : Courant désiré * 0.14 = Tension à lire.
Recommandations : lorsque le courant d’alimentation est supérieur à 2A, il est conseillé
d'ajouter un refroidisseur en alu et un ventilateur 24V (type alimentation PC) pour forcer le
refroidissement des circuits de commandes.


It should be similar in your instruction paperwork.

Joe

Yep 1.4

Yep 1.4

OK so got it running now? :) we are all wondering.

I just wired up for testing the HobbyCNC board to the Z axis and using my 2 serial PC PSU (24v 13a) and ran my test on the z-axis.

It is TOTALLY different, sounds very smooth in both directions.

I ran it at 70 vel 5 accel as it stalled at 100/7, but I mounted the motor WITHOUT any rubber grommets. Using 1/4 microstepping.

You can imagine how excited I am, the motor is music to my ears, but don't believe me, checkout the video in the attached zip file

Now I need to do some more electronics work to put the HobbyCNC card in the controller and connect it to the multifunction card. As well as run all new cables as the new controller requires 6 cables not 4.

I also need to find or build a power supply something in the range of 35v 12amps (2amp stepper x 3 +50%) So if anyone can point me in the write direction as to suitable power supplies or what components (transformer, cap etc) I would need to build one I would be grateful.

Glad to hear you are listening to music now.

Dave are you saying there is no more groaning at the motors at all speeds? Are you still using the motors from Xylotex?

YES ! ! ! ! now your machine sounds like mine. I love the HobbyCNC Boards, wish they had a Bi-polar board but dave said they are not working on one right now, but perfecting the unipolar board. But now with larger bi-polar drives you can run them in unipolar and still have some good oz/in.

lookes like now all you need to do is start dialing in machine, I to am going to try the rubber garmetts to see how it works, (use faucet washers as a source and cheap also).

few things david.. lol sorry to hit you up so much, but like I said before, trying to do the things the same as you or along the same lines.. and the faster I can get this thing tested the faster I might be able to help determine whats wrong on yours..

1. The inputs on your controller x y z, are the ones above where your cables come out to each motor, are those for the limit switches?

2. Looks like you got the +5 (maybe) from cnc4pc. Did you go with 2 sep power supplies one for the xylotex drivers + motors, and one for the multifunction card? I saw one guy in the xylotex forum said he has run it for over a year with sharing the same power. Your feelings?

Also, I know again I'm really asking to be called a hand holder lol but do you have any photos of the inside, the wiring really. I don't need a really long explanation, just a snap shot of what is going on. I could wing it and do it how I think I should be doing it but I don't want to burn it out or fry it or any of that. The xylotex side is easy, power/setup/motors/parallel.. that's simple, just when you get into the multifunction card and limit switches and e-stop, you're the only one that has been clear at all on how it's supposed to work ;). So that's why I'm picking on you in particular. Thanks bud.


1. The 3 bottom wires are to the controller the top row of 3 with plugs are the limit switches. I will probably change the motor cables to use plugs as well.

2. I bought the external power supply from CNC4PC for the multifunction card and also have the +5v from USB connector.

3. I'll take some pictures today for you.

No problem

David

Glad to hear you are listening to music now.

Dave are you saying there is no more groaning at the motors at all speeds? Are you still using the motors from Xylotex?


No groaning at all!

Yes using the 425 in wired unipolar. The 269's can't be used as they are 4 wire.

YES ! ! ! ! now your machine sounds like mine. I love the HobbyCNC Boards, wish they had a Bi-polar board but dave said they are not working on one right now, but perfecting the unipolar board. But now with larger bi-polar drives you can run them in unipolar and still have some good oz/in.

lookes like now all you need to do is start dialing in machine, I to am going to try the rubber garmetts to see how it works, (use faucet washers as a source and cheap also).



Yep, I am very pleased! It's is amazing how different the HobbyCNC is from Xylotex. I acutally think the machine is pretty dialled in mechanically now after all the work I have done troubleshooting. I am going to put my gromets back on the 425 and see if I can get it back up to the 100/7 range. I also ordered some mote acme rod today to replace the y axis which is slightly bent and cause some vibration.

David, I think you might want to send this video to Xylotex indicating what you have done.

What does it mean to be unipolar verus bipolar?

Drag about my motors not be able to work I was hoping I could do the same thing to my setup.

What does it mean to be unipolar verus bipolar?

Drag about my motors not be able to work I was hoping I could do the same thing to my setup.

Here is good reading on stepper motors.

http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf

joe

Joe what micro stepping are you using on your board, do you have idle current reduction enabled?

I put the grommets back on and was not able to increase velocity any higher (80) but can run with accel at 10 although I am not sure whether I could have achieved this without the grommets. Joe I will be interested in what you find if you add them.

I also just ran my v-carve test file in air with just the z axis and it runs fantastically! The stepper just sings.

Does anyone have any recommendations for plugs and sockets for the stepper cables for my controller box. They need to be at least 6 pin.

Joe what micro stepping are you using on your board, do you have idle current reduction enabled?

I put the grommets back on and was not able to increase velocity any higher (80) but can run with accel at 10 although I am not sure whether I could have achieved this without the grommets. Joe I will be interested in what you find if you add them.

I also just ran my v-carve test file in air with just the z axis and it runs fantastically! The stepper just sings.

Does anyone have any recommendations for plugs and sockets for the stepper cables for my controller box. They need to be at least 6 pin.

I use 1/4 stepping, I do not have idle current option if i remember, i have had the board on my machine for a year so it is an older version.

Looking forward to a cut in wood.

Well I really can't tell. Is that crappy news for someone like me or a solution to a sticky situation david has been in? I guess when I get my power supply we shall see. Although, joe saw sparky's running and to me it looked like it was running well (well there was a stall or two). I'm glad your happy David, when can we expect you to cut some radius work and signs? Btw cool video, but for a novice cnc guy, to me the second part sounds quieter and cleaner, is that what you want or don't want? Thanks in advance for the pics, can't wait to test the stuff later this week. Just sanded and polished the rails for my big box and am assembling the rest in a few. They are smoooooth. Almost as smooth as the drill rod. (few nicks here and there though)

The second part is with the new HobbyCNC controller card that I built yesterday and yes that sound is absolutely what we want

thought so (edited my post) I saw it didn't sound right how I said it.. meant me as a novice unsure of the sound, not saying it's a novice machine, it's very involved if you ask me!

Joe I bought this power supply from ebay a few days ago http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160070214592
originally for my Xylotex, but do you think I would be okay using it for the HobbyCNC? Ideally I would like 35v, but I can't find anything for a reasonable price that still give >12amps.

Why don't you just make one? It's easy and cheap.

Okay Steve, what do I need?

a 35v 12 amp transformer, a capacitor of some size, not sure what, a bridge rectifier, fuses?.

Sorry for the dumb questions, but I am not good with electronics.

Give me a parts list and a diagram and I can put it together :)

No, a 24V 10A transformer is all you need. Here's a link to a simple 32V 10A PS :

http://pminmo.com/simpleps.htmPS

David/bp092/Joe,

Congratulations David!

I concur that Xylotex should get some feedback from your results. The fact that my build runs fine and yours did not (with Xylotex) yet now runs well with HobbyCNC, STRONGLY suggests you got bad stuff from Xylotex.

As I have posted before, remember that my setup is absolutely STOCK Xylotex (4 axis board) with 3 Xylotex supplied 425 motors and the Xylotex 24V/5 Amp power supply.

I can get 100 IPM at 15 acceleration. I have made about a dozen Vcarve sample cuts. Apart from some evidence of a little too much backlash in my Z axis, my kit is cooking. It sounds fine and smooth. It cuts well too.

I got distracted with family stuff (good and fun so it was welcome) this weekend so I am slowly working now on my clamping setup. I will post some picutures/video in a day or two.

So, for those who have purchased Xylotex gear and are not yet up and running, at least one Xylotex setup IS working now. I will count my blessings and await other results.

Look back in this thread to a reference to where I have posted a link to video (those were air cuts) showing 100 IPM with my build.

Regards,
George

Thanks George.

I have sent Jeff an email and also a copy of the video for his review

Here is my controllor box i built over a year ago.

Joe I bought this power supply from ebay a few days ago http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160070214592
originally for my Xylotex, but do you think I would be okay using it for the HobbyCNC? Ideally I would like 35v, but I can't find anything for a reasonable price that still give >12amps.


David that will work, but just lower power, slower speed and torque, 36v would be best, it has a pot on it and when you get it test it and turn up you usually can get 3-4v more from it, but another thing is turn it down all the way and see what the volts are and you can always use two of them and retail the amps.

Or maybe I will build one based on the Diagram that Steve suggested.

What size Cap and transformer do you have in your controller?

Or maybe I will build one based on the Diagram that Steve suggested.

What size Cap and transformer do you have in your controller?

68,000uf Cap, 24v 10a trans 24vac x 1.414 = 34.5v min, but you usually get more because mine is just above 36vdc, the trans was just over 25vac

I remember seeing your controller earlier on it looks cool. This weekend I will figure that out, for now, it's ghetto wiring for testing and then when I'm sure stuff works I will build a nice little home for it.

Thanks Joe. What voltage should the Cap be? For example would this one be okay or should it be 24V

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=36DY683F050DL2Avirtualkey61320000virtualkey75-36DY683F050DL2A

More dumb questions, I assume I need a 10 amp fuse between the AC live and the transformer (transformer is 24v 10amps) and a 2amp fuse between the motor and psu (motor current in unipolar is 2 amps) or should the fuses be slightly bigger then the amps drawn?

Do I need the diode in the diagram for EMF from the motor if the fuse blows. The diagram say for a bipolar motor but mine is wired unipolar. If I do need one, what size.

Thanks

david, we should have an online meet sometime, setup a simple java chat, call it question time and hammer joe all at once?.. lol I could arrange and host it, or setup some kind of usergroup website for joe's build outside of the zone, could help in that too

I'm up for that - good idea. And lets makes sure the likes of Jay etc are involved.

I can make it happen, sometime this weekend we can have a first just to test it out. Would be cool to have a usergroup and get everyone involved, sharing stuff about their router, tips tricks etc.. I just get the feeling that the dozen or so people on the zone logging their joe 2006 design are not the only ones that have built or are running joe's design.

IRC channel maybe.

More dumb questions, I assume I need a 10 amp fuse between the AC live and the transformer (transformer is 24v 10amps) and a 2amp fuse between the motor and psu (motor current in unipolar is 2 amps) or should the fuses be slightly bigger then the amps drawn?

Do I need the diode in the diagram for EMF from the motor if the fuse blows. The diagram say for a bipolar motor but mine is wired unipolar. If I do need one, what size.

Thanks

yes 10a fuse for trans., i do not have a fuse from motors to psu, it goes through the controllor board.

Thanks Joe. What voltage should the Cap be? For example would this one be okay or should it be 24V

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=36DY683F050DL2Avirtualkey61320000virtualkey75-36DY683F050DL2A

That's overkill for a 32V PS. Use this:

Smaller Cap (http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ne%3D254016%252b1447464%26Ntt%3D7536DY403F040BC2A%26Ntk%3DMouser%5FWildcards%26N%3D1323038%26RefType%3DHome)

That's overkill for a 32V PS. Use this:

Smaller Cap (http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ne%3D254016%252b1447464%26Ntt%3D7536DY403F040BC2A%26Ntk%3DMouser%5FWildcards%26N%3D1323038%26RefType%3DHome)

I'm trying to find my formula, if i remember i figured 28,000uf was enough, but the larger the uf's the smoother the power ripple will be.

Edit: I found the following info:
A bridge rectifier = 2x your volts, so for a 24v trans, use 50v bridge rec. 25amp or higher.

your cap should be 2,000uf x your amps, so a 10a would need 20,000uf.

and also install a bleeder resister across your cap to drain power when turned off.

I would lean towards this one, just to kick the voltage up some from the 40, for the price, to allow for expansion in voltage.

50v cap (http://www.mouser.com/search/Refine.aspx?Ne=1447464+254016+688315+2203862&N=1323038+4294826714+2203862+0&GetRecs=1&Msb=0&Mkw=Capacitors+50V&Ns=P_SField&Ntx=mode%20matchall&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards&RefType=Home&Ntt=*Capacitors*+*50V*) Never mind that is order of atleast 49 so madclickers is a good one.

Hey David!

Congratulations on your success and thanks for your support and help with my questions, it's really appreciated! :D

Your new controller enclosure looks very nice! Very professional looking!
I've got the same one I bought for my HobbyCNC kit only in black.
Are your labels clear stick on or did you engrave them?

God job!

I can make it happen, sometime this weekend we can have a first just to test it out. Would be cool to have a usergroup and get everyone involved, sharing stuff about their router, tips tricks etc.. I just get the feeling that the dozen or so people on the zone logging their joe 2006 design are not the only ones that have built or are running joe's design.


Just let me know, I will be there

yes 10a fuse for trans., i do not have a fuse from motors to psu, it goes through the controllor board.


Ops I meant to from the PSU to the controller . (I see you have two in yours)

I'm trying to find my formula, if i remember i figured 28,000uf was enough, but the larger the uf's the smoother the power ripple will be.

Edit: I found the following info:
A bridge rectifier = 2x your volts, so for a 24v trans, use 50v bridge rec. 25amp or higher.

your cap should be 2,000uf x your amps, so a 10a would need 20,000uf.

and also install a bleeder resister across your cap to drain power when turned off.

I would lean towards this one, just to kick the voltage up some from the 40, for the price, to allow for expansion in voltage.

50v cap (http://www.mouser.com/search/Refine.aspx?Ne=1447464+254016+688315+2203862&N=1323038+4294826714+2203862+0&GetRecs=1&Msb=0&Mkw=Capacitors+50V&Ns=P_SField&Ntx=mode%20matchall&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards&RefType=Home&Ntt=*Capacitors*+*50V*) Never mind that is order of atleast 49 so madclickers is a good one.

Does it matter that I have ordered the 68,000 50v one or should I order the one Steve quoted.

Hey David!

Your new controller enclosure looks very nice! Very professional looking!
I've got the same one I bought for my HobbyCNC kit only in black.
Are your labels clear stick on or did you engrave them?

God job!

No they were engraved using my small router. I put pain mask (stick plastic) on the face plates before cutting out the holes and engraving the lettering, then I sprayed it and removed the mask.

[quote=Edit: I found the following info:
A bridge rectifier = 2x your volts, so for a 24v trans, use 50v bridge rec. 25amp or higher.
[/quote]


Again does it matter I ordered the one from the circuit diagram which is 400PIV 15amp bridge?

Does it matter that I have ordered the 68,000 50v one or should I order the one Steve quoted.

Again does it matter I ordered the one from the circuit diagram which is 400PIV 15amp bridge?

That is the one i have straight from Dave at HobbyCNC, and works good.

40v 15a bridge will work, i'm not sure if 400PIV means 40v

Ops I meant to from the PSU to the controller . (I see you have two in yours)

Here is the diagram, and also shows the Bleeder resister.

Great, thanks Joe. I beleive PIV is Peak Inverse Voltage.

The great thing about this build is not only will I know how to build a CNC Router, but also my knowledge of stepper motors, controllers and electronics is going to be 100% better :)

The Peak Inverse Voltage is what it says, the maximum allowed backbias of the diode. Exceeding this can(will) lead to avalanching and eventually a destroyed diode.

Thanks CountZero, so I assume that the 400PIV 15amp bridge rectifier that I ordered will be okay for my psu?

You should be able to use it for 230V mains directly, so I assume it will suffice :)

Edit: Provided you plan to draw less than 15A!

Sorry for all the dumb questions, but what about 110v here in the US?

What matters is the peak voltage, and for you it would be Sqrt(2)*110V ~ 155 V so it should be OK.

Direct connection to mains is however not recommended, If you need the voltage put a 1:1 transformer in between.

Thanks again for the education. I will have a 24v 10 amp transformer in between.

David

The 24V will give a peak voltage of ~34V So no problems here!

Thanks again

Does it matter that I have ordered the 68,000 50v one or should I order the one Steve quoted.

will work fine. Just overkill and more expensive.

I'll live with that ;) Thanks Steve

Hey guys, Im not trying to hijack the thread again :)
Im looking for some ACME 1/4-20 threaded rods. Anyone know of a place to get them?

As for the power supply being overkill. I would much rather know that the power supply is not a weak link in the system. :)

David. Any word back from Xylotex on the hardware?

Yes, Jeff responded, but not really sure he understands the issue (not sure he viewed the video as the last one I sent him he said he could not play - I suggested he download the latest quicktime from Apple).

He seems to be suggesting that if I set the vref to the same equiv vref that the HCNC board use it would be fine which of course we all know is not. Apart from that he was just stating the way the motors should be wired on the different boards, which is what I did.

Here is his response

"Hi,
If you are using the 425 oz.in. motors with the HCNC board, then you
should be running the motors at 1.98 amps/phase (the unipolar rating
for the motors).

When running with the Xylotex, they should be run in bipolar parallel
mode. This would be the mode when wired as the sheet sent with the
motors specifies. 1.98A on the Xylotex (for comparison to what you
should be running them with the HCNC) corresponds to a Vref of 2.85V."


I am debating whether it is worth responding.

By the way, the last thing I did yesterday was to put a 269 on the z axis on my Sherline Mill and hook it up to the Xylotex. I could not get much more than 30/2 out of it until I put the damper that came yesterday on the motor and I got about 60/5 which is much faster than I ever got out of the stock Sherline motor / controller (RIP) which was about 20/1.5.

Now of course the sherline is totally different to the mill in terms of construction etc with a 20TPI leadscrew as well.

The Xylotex controller will be my new Sherline controller as if you remember I managed to fry it when I hooked up the 425 to it :(


Also, I did try the damper on the Router with the Xylotex board but it made no real difference.

As for dampening. Someone posted that the product DYNAMAT might actually be a good product to use on the CNC machine. This product adsorbs vibrations.

Im going to see if I can get my hands on some small scrap peices to apply to my motor mount adaptor plates.

No to just get my lead screws found and ordered.

David, just my opinion but you have a lot of detailed information on the configurations/tests you have done with the Xylotex system and other sytems, as well a lot of people here are indicating they are having similar problems. I have watch a few threads go by Xylotex and each time it is the same answer resonance... play with the VRef. While they may work once and a a while, I no longer agree is totally correct, nor should it be as bad as it is with the Xylotex system is demonstrating.

IMO you should continue to feed back the information and ensuring Xylotex understands that the product is flawed while it may not benifit you hopefully it will benifit others. I know if I had read this thread I would not be buying the Xylotex system (still might return it) as well as I am experiencing the same problems I will freely indicated that the Xylotex system is flawed until such time as they fix it properly and users might want to look at other systems.

Based on your findings, testing and other testimates... I believe I will have to convert my system as well. I will determine this once it is functional as recent tests have show that work at 20IPM under light loads the system has been loosing small steps here and there. As my system is not complete enough to run bigger tests I will not now for sure the exact consiquences under load for the next 3 to 5 days. No load no problem presently, loaded I have seen issues.

Just my 2cents...

Can you confirm you statement:
"Also, I did try the damper on the Router with the Xylotex board but it made no real difference."
Was this with the 269oz in motors and the damper? Did you have the rubbers on at the time?

I wonder why you see good efects on the Sherline machine but not the CNC router. Strange, I thought you had an easy solution for a moment.

As for the power supply being overkill. I would much rather know that the power supply is not a weak link in the system. :)



I didn't say the power supply was overkill, I said the cap was overkill for the power supply he wants to build. If anything I think the ps and the driver is underkill for the big motors. Higher inductance motors work a lot better at speed with higher voltages than the hobby drives can handle.

Can you confirm you statement:
"Also, I did try the damper on the Router with the Xylotex board but it made no real difference."
Was this with the 269oz in motors and the damper? Did you have the rubbers on at the time?

I wonder why you see good efects on the Sherline machine but not the CNC router. Strange, I thought you had an easy solution for a moment.

Yes that's correct, it was with the 269. As to whether the gromets were on I can't remember.

I think the diference is that the sherline is totally different in terms of construction and lead screw etc and therefore resonance is different.

I didn't say the power supply was overkill, I said the cap was overkill for the power supply he wants to build. If anything I think the ps and the driver is underkill for the big motors. Higher inductance motors work a lot better at speed with higher voltages than the hobby drives can handle.

Understood. Interestingly though the HCNC board can take a much higher voltage than the Xylotex.

Just been watching this thread as I am currently using the Xylotex controller board. I purchased mine a little over a year ago and haven't had any problems. I'm just wondering if they maybe changed the board house or CM and it has introduced some issues in the latest run. Or maybe they did a part substitution that isn't quite up to snuff in certain circumstances (Voltage or Current levels). Just some thoughts or questions that can be asked of Xylotex to maybe help them figure out what the issue is.

All of your mills are looking great and can't wait until I get mine finished.

James

Hi James, yes I think it is probably something like that.

However I can't get Xylotex much beyond firing back to me the usual response ie check vref etc.

When I have time I will sit down and summarize all the test that I ran, but until then I am concentrating in getting my HobbyCNC board installed and my router running, then I can cut wood (or build my ATC :) )

david I just got all my cnc4pc and xylotex power supply tonight, going to test now, could you email me that file I asked you about in private message before so I can test it under the same conditions/settings as you.. then we can see if I get the same response.. :)

David, I just finished my conversion of my Y axis with thurst bearings and flex couplers. I used the faucet washers I bought and they seem to work really good. The trick I found is to not crank the mounts down so tight. Anyways here is my build log that I had started.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30988

david I just got all my cnc4pc and xylotex power supply tonight, going to test now, could you email me that file I asked you about in private message before so I can test it under the same conditions/settings as you.. then we can see if I get the same response.. :)


Great now you can test.

Just emailed the files to you.

David

David, I just finished my conversion of my Y axis with thurst bearings and flex couplers. I used the faucet washers I bought and they seem to work really good. The trick I found is to not crank the mounts down so tight. Anyways here is my build log that I had started.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30988


I will check it out.

Here is a question I have not seen asked of all the "Joe" Router builders,

What are you going to make with it once it's built and working?

Progress has slowed with my build at the moment as I wait for new controller box, wire, sockets, PSU parts etc to be delivered but I hope by the end of next week to have everything completed.

In the meantime, I put my Sherline Mill and Lathe back together yesterday and I have put the Xylotex 269 motors on my Mill.

Here is a question I have not seen asked of all the "Joe" Router builders,

What are you going to make with it once it's built and working?

A lathe LOL

I have several purposes with it.
Sign work in time... I have someone already lined up that wants small sign work done. Going to be a bit before I bring this work on as I want a clean finished machine.
Hoping to replacing my difficult scrolling work with this machine. Just got to realize I don't get sharp inner corners.
Custom wood\plastic working
Fabrication of items I could never do before with conventional wood working machines
Molds
Prototypes

A lathe LOL


Don't forget to post your project log of your lathe build then :)

David,
Dont i wish!!!! it would be a mighty small little lathe. say like this big
__
__| - |
|------------------------|

Small update, I received the PSU that I originally ordered for my Xylotex, it is 24v (turned up to just over 28v) 16 amps. So I just tried it with the HobbyCNC and my Z axis and now I can run reliably at 90 velocity and 15 acceleration.

Before I was using my two PC PSU which gave 24v and 13amps.

I ran my v-carve test file which ran perfect and lost no steps.

By early next week I should have my parts to build a new power supply which will give 35v and 10amps although I cannot imagine driving the machine any faster than I am now achieving.

Of course it may be a bit different when I am running the two other axis.

There is no way I would run my machine at those speeds, Its just not deisgned for it! But still Very good.

You think the hobyCNC driver is what did it for you?

How much was the kit?

Yep the HCNC card saved my sanity and whats more I had to build the card myself which is originally what scared me off and pushed me to the Xylotex.

This afternoon I put in the new acme rod (now straight) and made a couple of adjustments to the axis.

I may through a stepper on it tomorrow to test it out now the z axis is dialed in.

By the way I received my copy of Windows Vista today and loaded it onto the HP PC I bought recently.

Running Vectric V-Carve on it with no problems.

Okay, could not resist I just put a 425 stepper on (without any grommets or other dampers) the y, and...........it runs great, exactly the same settings as the z axis, velocity 90, acceleration 15. It smooth and quite and accurate.

Can't wait until all my cable, connectors etc comes so I can put all the motors on at once and cut something.

Very Happy!!!

Okay, could not resist I just put a 425 stepper on (without any grommets or other dampers) the y, and...........it runs great, exactly the same settings as the z axis, velocity 90, acceleration 15. It smooth and quite and accurate.

Can't wait until all my cable, connectors etc comes so I can put all the motors on at once and cut something.

Very Happy!!!

Great job David!!! Good for you!
I've made some head way today. Will post a few videos I shot while trying different settings.

Glad to hear all your efforts paid of. As you did I leaned towards the Xylotex because I did not want to figure out how to build up the HobbyCNC stuff, I bet I have spent 2 or 3 times more time troubleshooting how to make it work reasonably with no load or working at 15IPM.

Yes and the HobbyCNC board took me about 90 mins to construct, the power of hindsight.

David I am Very, Very Glad you got it running I felt really bad that it was not up and running from the get go. Now you can test to the workings of the Hobby CNC board, I love mine (second one i have owned) and will buy more from him also. Now you see the board really is not hard at all to put together. and the other thing, Its cheaper price. 90IPM is great, to be honest with you i do not even cut that fast i usually stay around the 80ipm speed, just because it make me comfortable, and is pleanty fast for a Hobby machine, now if i was in production (oh, wait that is what the kits are... LOL) i would want a large commercial machine.

Joe

Yep!

No with all my new found knowledge, I would definately have gone for the HCNC board over the Xylotex.

I was actually saying to my wife this evening, that even since completing the mechanical build of the machine which was fun and straightforward, I would not have swapped the journey I took on resoving the problems as I have learnt so much, which in no part is thanks to you and others here that have helped and provided me with the knowledge.

David

David I did not buy the Hobby board for the same reason. I did not want to solder it all together. After seeing what you have gone through I will probably be ordering before the weekend is out. Unless of course my wife insist that I get Geckos.

Dwayne

David, I'm going to be leaving in the morning to spend the weekend in Atlanta. Going to the woodworking show. Should be back Sun. Hopefully by the time I get back and get on my machine you will have all the kinks out and let me know what other parts I will need to buy to get my machine running likes yours and Joes. Sounds like you have finally got it going your way.

Doug

I hope so, but I won't count my chickens until I see some sawdust ;)

David I am Very, Very Glad you got it running I felt really bad that it was not up and running from the get go. Now you can test to the workings of the Hobby CNC board, I love mine (second one i have owned) and will buy more from him also. Now you see the board really is not hard at all to put together. and the other thing, Its cheaper price. 90IPM is great, to be honest with you i do not even cut that fast i usually stay around the 80ipm speed, just because it make me comfortable, and is pleanty fast for a Hobby machine, now if i was in production (oh, wait thsat is what the kits are... LOL) i would want a large commercial machine.

Joe

joe, now just imagine how nice it would be to have a komo or thermwood to cut your kits on, 1000+ipm and full sheets with a vaccum system :) :P

As promissed here is a video of the y axis working with the HobbyCNC board at 90/15 and it's running the Mach 3 Roadrunner file.

I have made a couple of small changes since the video and is now running even smoother.

Note there is now rubber grommets on this and it is bolted straight to the motor mount.

Beware the video is a bit of an epic so get some popcorn and a beer, sit back and relax.

The video is here http://www.digitaloceans.net/workbench/y.mov (http://www.digitaloceans.net/workbench/y.mov)

As promissed here is a video of the y axis working with the HobbyCNC board at 90/15 and it's running the Mach 3 Roadrunner file.

I have made a couple of small changes since the video and is now running even smoother.

Note there is now rubber grommets on this and it is bolted straight to the motor mount.

Beware the video is a bit of an epic so get some popcorn and a beer, sit back and relax.

The video is here http://www.digitaloceans.net/workbench/y.mov (http://www.digitaloceans.net/workbench/y.mov)

Very cool! Thanks David!!!!

Your machine and shop look great!

I feel 100% better after watching your video. It's great to able to compare with another machine and see pretty much the same results!
Of course your machine is just smokin right along, 90/15 very nice!

Got my top done, forgot my camera so I'll post pics tomorrow.
Brought my HobbyCNC home so I'll work on it in the morning.

Thanks again!

David,

Looking good!!!

I had to go out of town on business again (unplanned). I am running well behind on where I wanted to be.

I shot a video of my kit actually cutting the Mach Roadrunner (link below if it works). You may have noticed the Roadrunner file sets a feed rate of 60 IPM in the Gcode. I did not change it. I continue to be able to run 100/15 with my stock Xylotex (lucky). I did get a chance to install my T-slots and sacraficial surface. I actually added angle wings on the edges to get more useable space on my table. I will show some picutures of that soon.

My daughter was acting as my starter and E-stop since I was handling the shopvac manually (I have not yet finished my dust collection setup).

http://homepage.mac.com/gtsullivan

The newer file is "Roadrunner JR2.mov"

Regards,
George

Yep, you seem to be unique so far running at that speed with a Xylotex board.

Well done.

gtschance... nice video... love the speed you guys get out of this machine. Seriously thought, safety glasses especially for those people who are at the same level as the machine staring right into the cutting :)

Dave, while mine is working OK so far at sub 20IPM speeds while cutting, just because I have not pushed it any faster, working to hard cutting pieces to finish the machine up.... no way my motors are sounding as sweet as they do in yours or gtschances are.

Buzz,

Point taken on the safety glasses - that won't happen again. I feel like an idiot.

Thanks,
George

Looks good guys, I stoped in to check things out I am in the proccess of moving to another house, I will have a large two car garage now for my shop, so i can do alot of experimenting and building now :D.

I really enjoy seeing your machines working and hope you find many uses for them.

Joe

Joe, obviously you don't own a car then ;)

Joe, obviously you don't own a car then ;)

In Texas we drive trucks... LOL

Hey who actually parks their cars in the garge? I would never have a car in the garage except for the -40 couple of days in the winter.

Sports cars, :)

http://74.104.179.252/thephillips/PhotoGallery/2006SolsticeHome/2006SolsticeHome.HTML

david, when you get your new stuff from mouser can you take a shot of your new black case setup and wired with the multifunction card and stuff? I've got some of the stuff wired but waiting for my external power supply from cnc4pc, only have the pc (usb) one wired in. Wiring the cards together as I got the 4 cards instead of the one multifunction card arturo had problems with. Is it okay to use the 22 ga wire for everything? I mean is it a standard wire pretty much? I'm going to buy more to rewire the wires longer for the motors and either buy igus or similar carriers to yours or just go with that flex tubing I saw someone that built joes earlier on used. (baby blue he had but I saw some in black at hd and radio shack). Can't wait to get my mouser stuff wednesday :). Going to update my log tonight.

If you want the blue stuff it should be in the electrical dept next/close to the conduit. It is Flexible non-metalic conduit ( we used to call is Smurf pipe)

Sure, but remember I am going to be using a HobbyCNC card but otherwise the same.

david, when you get your new stuff from mouser can you take a shot of your new black case setup and wired with the multifunction card and stuff? I've got some of the stuff wired but waiting for my external power supply from cnc4pc, only have the pc (usb) one wired in. Wiring the cards together as I got the 4 cards instead of the one multifunction card arturo had problems with. Is it okay to use the 22 ga wire for everything? I mean is it a standard wire pretty much? I'm going to buy more to rewire the wires longer for the motors and either buy igus or similar carriers to yours or just go with that flex tubing I saw someone that built joes earlier on used. (baby blue he had but I saw some in black at hd and radio shack). Can't wait to get my mouser stuff wednesday :). Going to update my log tonight.


JLT Used the Electrical Flexable plastic conduit.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=227738&postcount=2

OKay, I have'nt disappeered in case you wondered ;)

I am still waiting for some components for my new power supply, but have spent some time this week figuring out the best layout for the box as there is not much room in there especially as my capacitor is the size of a can of soda!!.

As soon as I get it done I will post some pictures.

I am also planning on building pendant and have started collecting components for that. So far I have a case, buttons and joystick ordered, but still looking for a cheap MPG (Cheapest so far is $125).

lookforward to see what you come up with, we need a good DIY pendant.

Joe

lookforward to see what you come up with, we need a good DIY pendant.

Joe

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a pendant?

Rich

Rich, it is something you wear around your neck ;)

No it's basically a mobile set of controls for the machine which typically has such things as a joystick to position the mill, an MPG (manual pulse generator) for fine positioning, buttons to select the axis, run and stop porgram and an e-stop.

With Mach 3 you can use something a simple a a Contour Shuttle Pro (http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/) or it can be something like this http://www.vegacnc.com/html/pendant.htm

Thanks David,

I was confused because I thought in an earlier post you talked about using the ShuttlePro, so I didn't understand the need for a pendant. I have used this type of device on one of my client's HolzHer ComQuest machines and it's nice to have the controls where you need them.

Rich

You can use the shuttle pro and that is in fact a cheap option and I use a shuttle express currently, I just want to build something a bit more industrial that will allow me to have minimal contact with the PC/mouse/ keyboard so that it can be kept away from the machine.

You can use the shuttle pro and that is in fact a cheap option and I use a shuttle express currently, I just want to build something a bit more industrial that will allow me to have minimal contact with the PC/mouse/ keyboard so that it can be kept away from the machine.

David, you may want to try to incorporate a mouse roller ball, this will eliminate a need for a mouse and give more control in the pendant.

Joe

Good idea Joe

here are some cases you can use, they have some handheld, with rubber sides.

http://www.pactecenclosures.com/index.html

joe

david, got a lot of goodies today, my router, bits, and my mouser stuff that I ordered (matched yours thanks for the #'s). Mouser is great and organized like bolt depot, I'm thinking that e-stores will end most retail stores pretty soon. To drive to get my router it would take approx 1 hour + a few gallons gas or so. That's atleast a few bucks in gas and an hour wasted. Or use my amazon prime account and pay $4 for overnight shipping. :D that was a fairly easy decision.. anyhow, you should have gotten your mouser stuff by now? That black case is nice, and large, I thought I would be fighting for room. When you're done or as you're doing it please snap some photos, would be helpful. Also that power cord, I sort of ordered it without thinking, is that to extend the router's short cord? If so, what kind of connectors are you going to use to link them up together? Also see if you can get a shot of your new cable hookups for the motor's that you were going to do so it is more plug and play ;). Thanks David, look forward to seeing how your controller looks, mine will look much of the same. I'm going to cut and drill all the holes by hand but will just buy another case later on and cut all the cutouts on my router ;).

Sounds good.

I'm busy building my controller as I speak. My transformer and rectifier turned up this afternoon so I can start final assembly. There is not much room in the case when you put a transformer and a cap the size of a soda can!!

Attached are some picture of the current state.

The first picture shows the front plate with connections etc in place but not yet wired. I also need to decide how I am going to label everything.

The second picture is the front view (with the front plate removed). The bottom board is the CNC4PC.com multifunction card and the top board is the HobbyCNC controller.

The third picture show the rear view. I made up a short ribbon connector for the DB25 connection between the two boards.

The forth picture is again from the rear but with the power supply components placed in position (but not yet fixed). I made a bracket out of HDPE for the capacitor.

Now for some questions;

On the transformer I am expecting to have 2 wires for 115VAC but as you can see on the transformer there are 4. I am assuming that as I want 24Vdc out I need to power both coils and therefore I wire to the top black 120V and bottom red 120V - can someone confirm. Also does it matter which wire the 4A fuse goes?

On the other side of the transformer, again I need two wire going to the bridge rectifier but I have 3 as marked on the transformer; 2 blue marked 12V and 1 yellow marked 10A, how do I wire these to the rectifier?

On the rectifier I have one corner (which is mitered) marked with a "+" which I know goes to the "+" on the capacitor and the corner next to that is marked "AC" which I assume goes to one of the wires from the transformer.

Would I be right in assuming that the opposite corner to the one marked "+" is the "-" and goes to the "-" on the capacitor and the one opposite the one marked "AC" comes from the transformer. I believe it does not matter which of the "AC" connectors goes to the transformer.

I also will connect the 2 terminals on the capacitor with a bleed resistor.

What gauge wire is recommended for wiring the power supply?

Of course any help with these questions is on the understanding that I take full and sole responsibility for wiring the power supply up :)

THanks


David

looks good david, by the couch here brought everything up, too tired to stand downstairs in my shop lol.. got everything spread on the table wiring the stuff in.. so that connector and the new power cord, is that what you're using to extend the router power cord? looking at it, isn't it just basically an extension cord you're adding? I mean is there a big difference between me using an extension cord or that?

The extension cord goes from the router through the igus cable and plugs into the socket on the back of the controller case. There is no difference other than I ordered a long ac cord with pigtails on the end that the router cable plugs into. I then threaded this end through the igus cable, mine are the non opening kind, so it was my only option then I put the plug on the pigtails and plugged the router into that.

Oh that's right, forgot about them not opening. Oh yeah, for the xylotex or hobbycnc to the multifunction card, is the only connection between them the printer port? Also, you wired your limits in series (I did the same) and put them in as 3 plugs. I got those quick connects same as you ordered from mouser, did you wire them to the multifunction card? If so cnc4pc's wiring chart says that 12 and GND (mine says 12 and 5v, 5v's for all the gnds on that input side). How'd you wire those in there? Estop is easy because at the current state I only have 1 lol.

Oh I see, arturo said that the 5 inputs are up to the user to choose. 1 or 2 for estops, and 3 for each axis in series. That makes sense. Doh!

Yes the only connection between the two card is the printer port. On the Xylotex it is not a db25 connector its the connector that comes with the board with a db25 on one end. It's that end that plugs into the DB25 port labelled "Output" on the multifunction card.

No, that not the right connectors on the multifunction card, that is for the power from the power supply you bought from CNC4PC.

The connector you want is a similar black strip but it will be labelled something like 10-GND-11-GND- etc so for example the e-stop normally goes to 10 + the GND next to it, the X limit goes to 11 or whatever you like (check the Mach 3 config I sent you under config-ports and pins-input tab and see what ports I am using there and use the same ones.

no david, did not mean those as the numbers, meant (2) for the estops and (3) for each series.. sorry for the confusion, thanks for the info on the db25

Sounds good.

I'm busy building my controller as I speak. My transformer and rectifier turned up this afternoon so I can start final assembly. There is not much room in the case when you put a transformer and a cap the size of a soda can!!

Attached are some picture of the current state.

The first picture shows the front plate with connections etc in place but not yet wired. I also need to decide how I am going to label everything.

The second picture is the front view (with the front plate removed). The bottom board is the CNC4PC.com multifunction card and the top board is the HobbyCNC controller.

The third picture show the rear view. I made up a short ribbon connector for the DB25 connection between the two boards.

The forth picture is again from the rear but with the power supply components placed in position (but not yet fixed). I made a bracket out of HDPE for the capacitor.

Now for some questions;

On the transformer I am expecting to have 2 wires for 115VAC but as you can see on the transformer there are 4. I am assuming that as I want 24Vdc out I need to power both coils and therefore I wire to the top black 120V and bottom red 120V - can someone confirm. Also does it matter which wire the 4A fuse goes?

On the other side of the transformer, again I need two wire going to the bridge rectifier but I have 3 as marked on the transformer; 2 blue marked 12V and 1 yellow marked 10A, how do I wire these to the rectifier?

On the rectifier I have one corner (which is mitered) marked with a "+" which I know goes to the "+" on the capacitor and the corner next to that is marked "AC" which I assume goes to one of the wires from the transformer.

Would I be right in assuming that the opposite corner to the one marked "+" is the "-" and goes to the "-" on the capacitor and the one opposite the one marked "AC" comes from the transformer. I believe it does not matter which of the "AC" connectors goes to the transformer.

I also will connect the 2 terminals on the capacitor with a bleed resistor.

What gauge wire is recommended for wiring the power supply?

Of course any help with these questions is on the understanding that I take full and sole responsibility for wiring the power supply up :)

THanks


David

Ok, just got home, sorry could not respond earlier.

the transformer i have two red and two black wired together per color, on the other side two blue = 24v 10a and one blue and yellow makes 12v 10a, so use two blue and cap off the yellow.

The rectifier you are correct, connections are oposite corner of each other, and "+" (mitered) is DC+ and the oposite corner is DC-, The AC does not matter polarity.

no david, did not mean those as the numbers, meant (2) for the estops and (3) for each series.. sorry for the confusion, thanks for the info on the db25



You right now I am confused as you mentioned 12 and 5v and there is no 5v if you are connecting to the right connector.

David if I read the drawing right (pretty sure!) what you have is a transformer capable of being wired 120/240 primary and it is a Center Tapped Secondary capable of delivering 12VAC x 2 or 24VAC x 1.

Thus for your requirement for 120 in and 24 out in the diagram you would wire as follows:

Primary

Black+Black - one side of 120 AC - conventionally this is the hot leg
Red+Red - other side of 120 AC - conventionally this is the neutral leg

Secondary

Tape off (insulate the Yellow wire - it will be unused)

You will get 24V AC between the two blue secondary wires.

By the way (NOT for your case) the Center tap configuration is useful for delivering other voltages (2 x 12) in a configuration where the yellow would be ground and one of the blues would be +12 and the other would be -12. Again, not what you are looking for. If you were looking for 240V in, you would wire the two "center" black and reds together and wire 240 input on the "outer" black and reds.

----------

For a bridge rectifier of the style you described it is convention to have the following:

A lug marked AC and a lug marked +. The corresponding AC input is normally diagonal from the AC and the corresponding minus (-) output is normally diagonal from the lug marked +

Convention is to mark all four lugs when the above is NOT followed.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
George

Ok, just got home, sorry could not respond earlier.

the transformer i have two red and two black wired together per color, on the other side two blue = 24v 10a and one blue and yellow makes 12v 10a, so use two blue and cap off the yellow.

The rectifier you are correct, connections are oposite corner of each other, and "+" (mitered) is DC+ and the oposite corner is DC-, The AC does not matter polarity.


Thanks Joe, so just to be clear on the 120V side I wire the 2 reds together and the 2 black together? I assume the red goes to the large prong on the AC plug and the black to the small. I also assume the fuse goes on the black wire.

There are no grounds in the circuit.

Thanks

David

edit: okay I think George clarified, I need to reverse what I said above and the black goes to the large prong not the red and the fuse goes on the red. Thanks George and Joe.

David, it's the right side. Not sure why it says 5v and not gnd..

15 5V 12 5V 11 5V 10 5V 13 5V is eaxactly what it says.. weird? Remember this is not your modified one, they are 4 sep cards. But the wiring manual for c1 says GND. Maybe I will email arturo...

That is weird, I would send Arturo an email as they should be grounds not 5 volts.

Will do, that external power supply however has a red and white wire + grounds on both. Did you wire both red and white into the 5v head and the copper into the GND? It says you can leave it open all the time or use a switch (shows in drawing too) or use a safety charge pump. In yours it's built in, in mine I have to add it as a sep. card. Where'd you put your power switch? I have my radio shack one, with 3 prongs, one for each state and the third I think is for the LED. Thanks

David,

For the pictured transformer, which side of the INPUT (RED's vs. BLACK's) that is wired to hot and neutral MAINS does not matter at all electrically.

G

Will do, that external power supply however has a red and white wire + grounds on both. Did you wire both red and white into the 5v head and the copper into the GND? It says you can leave it open all the time or use a switch (shows in drawing too) or use a safety charge pump. In yours it's built in, in mine I have to add it as a sep. card. Where'd you put your power switch? I have my radio shack one, with 3 prongs, one for each state and the third I think is for the LED. Thanks

No, be carefull and read the instruction and the back of the power supply (I assume the one you got from CNC4PC), one color is the 12v and the other is 5v the back of the power supply says which pin is which then just trace it back.

My power switch is just on the AC side of the power supply. As you said I use the charge pump to enable the card.

I could never get my power switch light to behave as I expected, it comes on when power is off and off when power is on.

David,

For the pictured transformer, which side of the INPUT (RED's vs. BLACK's) that is wired to hot and neutral MAINS does not matter at all electrically.

G



Thanks again George.

By the way what gauge wire should I use for the transformer/recitifier/capacitor wiring?

Thanks

david.. thanks for the tip...


says pin 3 is +5VDC and pin 5 is +12 VDC

I looked the the pins and followed and see that red and white are 1 and 4 common, and the copper grounds are +12 VDC and the +5VDC isn't even hooked into anything the other ground is just a common.. I'm confused lol

I have not got it handy at the moment, but that doesn't sound right. Red and white are 12v and 5v (can't remember which is which) and then each has a copper ground which can be common. Are you sure you are looking at the socket from the right side?

lol you're right, and I'm once again tired and looking at it wrong, LOL

David,

16 AWG stranded or larger for margin. Standard lamp cord (18 AWG) split apart will generally do OK if you do not already have a roll of 16 AWG hookup wire. Do not go smaller than 18 AWG.

George

No problem :)

Thanks George

David,

A hint for future mains wiring with transformers, should the need arise :-)

A UL/CE certified CHASSIS (not PCB) transformer SHOULD have its input and output lead wires (as already supplied) at the proper guage for runs of 12 inches or less. Longer runs, larger wire. Often you will find the supplied input leads are not long enough to reach either your switch or your plug/fuse connectors so it is best to go one or more guages larger if you have to splice (meaning lower number guage). If your layout allows for you to go to terminal strips with lugs, the actual run to the termination point beyond should be of the larger size.

George

david, you said you use the safety charge pump to power the card, so you didn't wire a switch in between the charge pump and the rest of the card like he shows in a detail.. again this is confusing because you have the all in one and I have sep. but the fundamentals are still the same.. anyhow, you have the switch on the AC side, on the mini relay part? Man I'm just lost on some of this stuff, the machine is easy, the wiring for it is a cake walk but just getting these cards all together and figuring out what goes were is giving me a head ache. Should have just waited for the new card, seems like it might be easier to have everything done for you. Arturo said it would be more wiring but wouldn't be hard. I'm thinking I should have waited lol. I looked at the ac relay manual and don't even know where to start. Wonder if anyone here at the zone has used arturos stuff and has pics of the setup? You're the only one that has been vocal about it.

David,

A hint for future mains wiring with transformers, should the need arise :-)

A UL/CE certified CHASSIS (not PCB) transformer SHOULD have its input and output lead wires (as already supplied) at the proper guage for runs of 12 inches or less. Longer runs, larger wire. Often you will find the supplied input leads are not long enough to reach either your switch or your plug/fuse connectors so it is best to go one or more guages larger if you have to splice (meaning lower number guage). If your layout allows for you to go to terminal strips with lugs, the actual run to the termination point beyond should be of the larger size.

George

Thanks for the information George.

david, you said you use the safety charge pump to power the card, so you didn't wire a switch in between the charge pump and the rest of the card like he shows in a detail.. again this is confusing because you have the all in one and I have sep. but the fundamentals are still the same.. anyhow, you have the switch on the AC side, on the mini relay part? Man I'm just lost on some of this stuff, the machine is easy, the wiring for it is a cake walk but just getting these cards all together and figuring out what goes were is giving me a head ache. Should have just waited for the new card, seems like it might be easier to have everything done for you. Arturo said it would be more wiring but wouldn't be hard. I'm thinking I should have waited lol. I looked at the ac relay manual and don't even know where to start. Wonder if anyone here at the zone has used arturos stuff and has pics of the setup? You're the only one that has been vocal about it.


The charge pump does not power the card, but enables output to the motors so that they cannot move until Mach 3 is running or if lets say Windows or Mach 3 crashes they will be disabled.

My only power switch is as I said on the AC side but not on any relay simply on the ac input to the power supply.

I went with the multifunction card for that reason. You could just simplyfy and not use that stuff and wait for the new multifunction card. It won't stop you from cuttting.

Oh I know.. just a little bummed out. Maybe I will ask arturo for an exchange. I know i'm not going to add in the variable speed control for awhile that's way out of my league as far as figuring that stuff out right now. I would like to at the very least though have a safety charge pump and e-stop/limits in before I run the router this weekend.

Yes as you said it is kind of difficult as I don't have the multiple cards to wire so it is a bit different for you.

I have now finished my controller with the HobbyCNC board so I thought I would share a few pictures with you.

The first picture is obviously the inside showing the power supply, HobbyCNC controller board and underneath that is the CNC4PC multifunction card.

The second picture is the front. Notice this time I decided not to mount a E-stop button as I am going to mount one on my pendant. The socket labeled "Aux" can be used by a remote e-stop of a tool height setter.

The third picture shows the rear. The small socket on the left is for the usb cable that supplies 5v to the multifunction card, the socket to the right provides 12v & 5v for the multifunction card, the next to the right is the AC in and the socket under that is for the Router power and is controlled by the solid state relay on the multifunction card.

I am still waiting for my cable to connect the controller to the motors, but that should be here by Monday.

David

Looks great as usual, makes my wood box look like crap... lol well i have to paint it now.


I see you machine'd a mount for the Cap.

Joe

yeah looks nice david, you did a really good job finding room.. gives me great hope since I don't have to find a place to mount that soda can and industrial sized power grid LOL.. but I may soon enough :(.. working with Arturo to hopefully get my stuff wired tonight and tomorrow morning and cutting tomorrow afternoon to test out the kinks of the machine.. plan to use the eswitch in this fashion instead

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/E_STOP_N_SCHP.pdf

but still have to figure out how I'm going to do everything, sending you a pm now :)

Looks very nice David! Can't wait to see it in action, will be watching on Monday.

I've got a busy day planned for tomorrow. Have my HobbyCNC controller / PSU unit built. Will hook up with 200oz HobbyCNC supplied steppers.
Received the threaded clamps from DumpsterCNC so I'll install them tomorrow and I've got all of the wood I need to finish my stand.
Will post video and pictures tomorrow evening.

Keep up the great work!

Thanks guys. I am quite pleased how the controller box turned out, not just have to wait to Monday for the cable.

Here is the Cyclone collector that I am going to be using with my Delta dust collector. I am just using a 5 gallon bucket as I don't have much room but I think it should be fine.

The cyclone collector is from www.clearvuecyclones.com (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com)

I used a 5 gallon bucket for a long time worked fine, just emptied to to often for my cutting i do as you can imagine with the kits.

I just wonder about the CFM of the mini cyclone with the delta, do they match? do you have a link to it, i know it is clezarview and will have to look at their site but if you had a quick link or scanned paper work could review.

Joe

Yes, I to was concerned about it as it is designed to work with shop vacs, s0 I asked Ed at ClearVue and this is what he said,

"If you are presently having success with the dust collector when the filter is clean, then the mini will work great to keep the bag clean and your dust collector operating at peak efficiency. If you have the right pickup around the cutter on the CNC router ( I have mine surrounded with a 2" long brush that acts as a barrier to the dust) then you probably won't need too much air flow to capture the fine dust. Keep in touch and let me know how it works."

The link is here http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Order_Page.htm

It is down the page and is called Mini CV06 Cyclone. There is also a video of i it in operation.

Looks good but what's the advantage?

I showed this in my thread before.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/18.jpg

You can get those lids at woodcraft and other woodworking dealers, just a simple sep. connection. As an example if I do a lot of work in one day I can usually fill that up, especially if I'm running a lot of stuff on the router table and planer. A 5 gallon bucket, could fill it up in minutes if I wanted to. The bag on the collector hardly ever gets changed, only the actual dust (not shavings) goes in there. If I had a drum or wide belt sander which I plan to get soon I will go even larger, maybe a dual or more bag collector. Not knocking clear vue but their stuff is pretty expensive for what it is.

No cables turned up today so I could not wire up the motors, but it should be here tomorrow.

So instead I spend the day working on making a floating dust collector head that will work with the ATC. I got the new pieces cut today and should have it finished tomorrow so I will post some pictures then.

I also received some of the components for my pendant which will be my next project after finishing the ATC.

David

Sorry bout that i was looking forward to seeing your machine cutting today.

What's the difference besides the price in the cyclone dust collector system and just using the garbage can like in BP's post above?

What's the difference besides the price in the cyclone dust collector system and just using the garbage can like in BP's post above?

A properly sized cyclone will capture all the very fine dust, which is most harmful. With the garbage can lid, the really fine dust blows through the bag and floas in the air. Spend some time reading this site for more info. http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

Hey bp092 I have something like the cyclone cover you have, I got mine from Lee Valley Tools, the nice thing about using a garbage can is you do not have to empty it that often. When I get planing or making dadoes you can generate a lot of chips in a hurry. I would think that you could fill a 5 gallon bucket pretty fast if you were cutting a lot.

Mark

Yep, that is, thanks Gerry

A properly sized cyclone will capture all the very fine dust, which is most harmful. With the garbage can lid, the really fine dust blows through the bag and floas in the air. Spend some time reading this site for more info. http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

Get a good bag and you won't have to worry about it. Mine is 1 micron rated and guaranteed by delta. But you are right, the smallest stuff is the most harmful. In the end though the only safe way to get rid of dust is to port it outside and put the DC in an exterior shed.

In the end though the only safe way to get rid of dust is to port it outside and put the DC in an exterior shed.

Only if you collect every bit of dust at the source, which is much more difficult than you'd think.

Only if you collect every bit of dust at the source, which is much more difficult than you'd think.

trust me, it's near impossible, but that is the danger of woodworking, just like the danger presented by the tools themselves

Yes, I to was concerned about it as it is designed to work with shop vacs, s0 I asked Ed at ClearVue and this is what he said,

"If you are presently having success with the dust collector when the filter is clean, then the mini will work great to keep the bag clean and your dust collector operating at peak efficiency. If you have the right pickup around the cutter on the CNC router ( I have mine surrounded with a 2" long brush that acts as a barrier to the dust) then you probably won't need too much air flow to capture the fine dust. Keep in touch and let me know how it works."

The link is here http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Order_Page.htm

It is down the page and is called Mini CV06 Cyclone. There is also a video of i it in operation.

I don't buy this. I have a fairly decent DC and when it's reduced down to 2.5" the flow is reduced horribly. I only have a 2.5" port on my bandsaw and I don't even bother hooking it up.

Contrary to what he says, you need high flow for dust collection. That little cyclone is going to choke a DC. I suspect that the reason it works as well as it does with a shop vac is the much higher suction of the shop vac can overcome the head loss through the cyclone.

Well, I'll let you all know as soon as I start using it.

David

The link to Bill Pentz's site that Ger gave is valuable. I'm trying to build a small cyclone for my vacuum table-dust vacuum system I'm trying to develop. I need to drop the dust before it gets to my fan motors. From the BP site:

"The smaller the cyclone diameter the larger the blower needed to overcome the resistance and the better the fine dust separation. It takes more work to push air in smaller circles, but tighter circles create better separation."

Also:

"Another important difference is small shop dust collectors move a large amount of air at a relatively low pressure. This makes them good for picking up chips over a larger area but lacking the pressure to be good for vacuuming. Because these blowers generate so little pressure, they will barely compress air at all. This means unlike commercial shops where the ducting carries the air for all machines running at once, the ducting in small shops should stay the same size as the blower inlet all the way to each machine and the machine ports need to be sized the same. Otherwise, any small ducting runs or restrictions will get severely kill the airflow just like partially opening a water valve. It also means that you should never reduce down a dust collector pipe to fit a small machine, but instead should use a shop vacuum on smaller machine ports because only a shop vacuum will have the pressure needed to pull ample air through the smaller port openings."

I also agree on reducing the duct collector piping down, I have the Delta 2 1/2 HP DC and I have tried to use it on my router fence and it is just about worthless. Instead I hooked up my shop vac and it work like a charm but it also has more static pressure. Remember if you cut the piping size in half you reduce the volume by a quarter, so if you only have reduce the ducting to 2" for the CNC you will need 4 2" pipes to equal the volume for a 4" pipe.

Mark

So I finally got the motors wired to the controller. In the end I forgo the mini din plug and sockets for two reasons; 1. The plugs where to difficult to solder the 22AWG cable onto the 8 pins and second I was concerned about the gauge of the wire pigtails on the sockets being to thin. So in the end I just used grommets and wired directly to the HCNC board. I was quite pleased with the wire I got from ebay, it was 22AWG 6 core, shielded with a drain wire too.

So everything works except I am getting some stalls on the x now that I need to look at tomorrow. Quite funny really as through all my trials and tribulations the x was always trouble free. Apart from the stalls the x axis moves smoothly. I will check out the anti backlash tomorrow and possibly try the dampner I bought on the axis. I did cut my "David" test file along with the v-carve "Bullshead" sign which cut fine apart from some mis cuts caused by the x axis stalls.

David,

Sooooo Close! :) Great job!

How are your energy chains working out? Do they always lay down smooth, have you had any problem with twisting?

Thanks.

Thanks.

Yes the energy chains work great, no problems at all.

David

Ok so I just measured the speeds of my Hitachi m12vc router with my handheld laser tachometer and thought it would be useful information for everyone.

So for each setting here are the results;

1 - 7,960 rpm
2 - 11,444 rpm
3 - 14,500 rpm
4 - 17,500 rpm
5 - 20,500 rpm
6 - 24,000 rpm

David

Dave, thanks for the information. I was just thinking about how to get this information last night.

Ok so I just measured the speeds of my Hitachi m12vc router with my handheld laser tachometer and thought it would be useful information for everyone.

So for each setting here are the results;

1 - 7,960 rpm
2 - 11,444 rpm
3 - 14,500 rpm
4 - 17,500 rpm
5 - 20,500 rpm
6 - 24,000 rpm

David

Besically what i was figuring using pro-rated formula from 1 to 6 starting with 8,000 and ending at 24,000.

Difference of 16,000rpm = 3,200rpm per dial mark

1 - 8,000
2 - 11,200
3 - 14,400
4 - 17,600
5 - 20,800
6 - 24,000

Joe

Well, there you go confirmed both ways.

Okay so put the dampner that I had on the x-axis and it seems to be okay now.

So just so that I can be part of the club here is a "Bulls Head" sign ;),

It's carved on stained MDF. I probably set the z 0 a little to low.

looks good, I like staining MDF then cutting it, the final cutting is very smooth and sharp edges. I will cut one and post my bulls head so ya'll can see.

Also what effects do you think the damper does for you? is the machine running good now?

Joe

I was getting a stall sometimes on the x axis at higher speeds (60-70ipm) the dampner seems to stop that. I think it help reduce stalling caused by the long x-axis leadscrew vibrating at higher speeds and stalling the motor.

looks great david, now all I have to do is find the time to use my cnc.. sounds like this weekend I will be neglecting my family for a non stop run of my router :)all day and night sat/sun :D

I hang my head in shame... :)

You guys have all done a great job. It's great to see the cutting going on!

David, that looks really good!
I got some wire today that I can temporarily use until my wire order arrives.
Maybe I can join the big boys club this weekend! :D

Have fun gang!!!

Nice job David. Looks like you finally found the right combination. This CNC stuff is definitely a learning experience.

How are you coming with your adjustable dust collector bracket?

Back to the drawing board on that, I was not happy with the end result.

Sorry to hear that. I was kinda holding off making mine waiting for you to come up with a new and improved system. Guess I will go ahead and start on the one that originally came with the plans. Maybe it won't be long before you or Joe will come up with the adjustable collector.

Look what I just won on ebay, a touchscreen monitor with attached keypad, are you thinking what I am thinking ;)

Look what I just won on ebay, a touchscreen monitor with attached keypad, are you thinking what I am thinking ;)

You're going to use credit cards and charge to rent your machine out ;)

Probably not, but I can't wait to see what you come up with next!!! :D

You've been a great inspiration, thanks, keep up the excellent work!

Yes that is right ;)

The credit card holder comes of from the keyboard.

lol, put it in the mall and have an automated liability waiver and watch the profits fall right in

lol, put it in the mall and have an automated liability waiver and watch the profits fall right in

To funny! Remember the people that use to be in malls with a camera and printer. They would take your picture and print it out on a calendar or some type of cloth to hang on the wall.

I can see David now with his PhotoVCarve in the mall cutting pictures...

:)

Yesterday I started building my Pendant for Mach 3. I get everything installed and today I need to put in my parallel port breakout board from CNC4PC, although I also have a MODIO board on its way from Homanndesigns (http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=4 (http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cP)ath=2&products_id=4))
which I may end up using instead).

The buttons are from a panel from some machine that I got from ebay the MPG is from Z-bots via www.littlemachineshop.com and the Joystick is an arcade item that I also got from ebay.

The pendant is designed to live at the end of the router, but also has a handle on the side so you can carry it around the machine.

The whole thing hooks up to a second parallel port on the PC, unless I change it to use MODIO in which case it will use a serial port.

David

Hey that looks pretty cool. No make it so it brews me up some coffee and you'll have something.

Sorry, I am English so it only does tea ;)

Now that looks good (as usual david). you definately have the fanciest machine out of all of us.

Joe

Thanks Joe.

Before everyone else points it out to me "Generator" is spelled wrong and I have changed it ;)

David

I'll second what Joe said!!

Very cool David!
I take it you select the axis with a button and the dial will be used to jog that axis as well as the joy stick? Can you control the Z-Axis with the joy stick as well?

That is correct. The Joystick just moves the x and y axis not the Z and is just designed to allow you to rapidly move the x and y then you use the MPG to fine move all three axis.

Since the morning I have added some LED's to tell you which axis is selected and also added another button to change the jog mode of Mach3 as you cannot use both the MPG and joystick at the same time as you need to change mode, thus the extra button.

I have been figuring out the Mach 3 side today and been using the Macropump (and writing simple VB for it) function to control the LED's.

I should have it all finished tomorrow and then I will do a video of it in use.

Already planning version two which will have more functions and use MODIO instead of the parallel port.

David

That is correct. The Joystick just moves the x and y axis not the Z and is just designed to allow you to rapidly move the x and y then you use the MPG to fine move all three axis.

Since the morning I have added some LED's to tell you which axis is selected and also added another button to change the jog mode of Mach3 as you cannot use both the MPG and joystick at the same time as you need to change mode, thus the extra button.

I have been figuring out the Mach 3 side today and been using the Macropump (and writing simple VB for it) function to control the LED's.

I should have it all finished tomorrow and then I will do a video of it in use.

Already planning version two which will have more functions and use MODIO instead of the parallel port.

David

Thanks David! Can't wait to see the video!

Version two... now there's a surprise! ;)

David, that's awesome! Maybe not too far from now you will build one and mount an LCD in there remoting into your console ;). Your joe's build is one of the finest David, you should be proud of all your hard work. I need to get some of those clamps made up to hold stock down, how are the working out? Hows the dust collection? Do you work by the end of your machine? I've been finding since my console is to the left that I home right up to almost the top left and cut right on that side, I'm sure everyone else has a different preference.

Thanks bp092.

The clamps work fine and I use them all the time to hold my sacrificial wood on the table. When you make them you just need to take into account that on the left side of the table the threaded rod (assuming you have used it) down the side of the table is much closer to the table than the right so you need to make sure the clamp is thin enough to fit between the rod and the table.

Dust collection seems fine, but I have not cut much yet ;) Need to finish making the clock I started on my small router so I will probably do that some time this week.

Yes I work at the end most of the time, thus the pendant.

David

Did you add those encoders to your steppers or did they come that way? If you added them where'd ya get them?

As for tea only, that'll work too. But for version 2.0 think about maybe beer. hehe

Jay pointed it, wondered what those were. What is it that the encoders physically do? I know they help the motors but have any explanation? From what I've heard they help verify the motors position, so I'm assuming that improves performance in the cut somewhat?

Encoders? That would be nice, but no, I think what you are referring to is the damper that is on the x axis (the yellow thing).

David

If you add a track ball to the pendent then you can load files and move the mouse on the screen and have full control of the program, not to mention a key pad... lol

lol now we're getting lazy, not exactly as if this machine is a 5x12 lol

hmmm next thing you know David won't even have to touch the machine, just look at it and control it by thought lol. Great job on the pendant :)

Yep I could do that. I also have the touchscreen with keypad on the side that I got from ebay that should be here on Friday to play with ;)

I don't want to be a pain in the butt, but you've got a spelling mistake on the pendant...
Anyway, great build! Thumps ub! ;)

Yes, I already got that thanks as I mentioned in a post a little earlier. It's now fixed.

Thanks

David

btw david do those buttons have leds on them?

Not LED, but light bulbs, but I am not using them as they require 24v and I do not want to have a power supply in the box (no room and weight) neither do I want to have to plug one into it. So today I will be adding led's by each axis button to tell you what axis is selected (also using macropump facility in Mach3) and also a new button and led to switch between jog/mpg mode.

When I build another pendant I will try to find buttons with LED's in them rather than light bulbs that I can run from the 5v I get from the USB port.

David

sounds good, radio shack carries mostly led lit switches and things of that nature, but then again you could always hack up old electronics :D or new ones you don't use

David hows your 126 C2 coming along just looked at it on your web site.
Lonnie

Hi Lonnie,

It's not got any further than that shown on the website as I took a bit of a detour to build the router and get a few other CNC systems up and running.

I shall return to it in the next few months I hope.

David

Hey David since the switches have 24v lights in them can't you just change out