Looking for a cheap supplier of Machining Wax. I would like to find it in sheets, not blocks so I do not have to remelt. I thought I read in one of the posts here that as you remelt and form the wax you lose come of the machinability. I know there was also a recipe somewhere to make your own. OK experienced ones, what is your cheap solution for finding vs. making say 6" X 6" X 1/2" sheets of machineable wax?

try this thread
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=26351

And this thread http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23207.

Note the link I provided in post #2 (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=184294&postcount=2)

I hope this helps!

That was what I was looking for.
Was I hallucinating when I read somewhere though that repeated remeltings affected the machineability? What do you suggest I do with the 2" cube blocks of blue wax that I inherited? Remelt? or figure out some small wierd shape project to use them up?

That was what I was looking for.
Was I hallucinating when I read somewhere though that repeated remeltings affected the machineability? What do you suggest I do with the 2" cube blocks of blue wax that I inherited? Remelt? or figure out some small wierd shape project to use them up?
Here's a few links from what seems to be the Premiere Machinable Wax manufacturer/supplier, Freeman Manufacturing & Supply Co. (http://www.freemansupply.com) Note the second link!

Machineable Wax (http://www.freemansupply.com/MachinableWax.htm)

Machinable Wax Reclaiming Procedure (http://www.freemansupply.com/instruction/Reclaiming.pdf)

Check out Freeman's other nifty (but not necessarily inexpensive) products, too.

I love you guys!
Thanks for helping a gal out! I have lots to try out tomorrow at school. Keep the ideas flowin

Thank you for all the machineable wax links. I am in class right now making it, or at least trying to make it. The PE film is bought and cut the Parrafin wax was bought and broken up. Now to melt it. The instructions say not to use a double boiler. Can I use a crock pot? I have a rotational molding oven? How and in what do you suggest I melt this down in and with?????

Hi,
I wrote the instructions on making the wax. the reason for no double boiler is temperature. You need to get up above boiling point to make the wax. after that it will melt with a double boiler. I guess you could yse oil instead of water. I make my wax in an old big tin can-cheap and can be disposed of when dirty. I use a cheap hotplate from Wal-mart.

Thank you for all the machineable wax links. I am in class right now making it, or at least trying to make it. The PE film is bought and cut the Parrafin wax was bought and broken up. Now to melt it. The instructions say not to use a double boiler. Can I use a crock pot? I have a rotational molding oven? How and in what do you suggest I melt this down in and with?????

"I have a rotational molding oven". Do you have any rotational molds?

If I had this equipment and if it could go up to a high enough temperature I would be tempted to put the wax and film in the mold, stick it in the oven, bring it up to temperature and just leave it rotating for several hours. It would be important to have a tight seal around the mold joint so the molten wax did not leak but if that was the case it would sure beat standing and stirring a hot container of wax for several hours.

Stuck that PE film in a pyrex from the chem department, took it to 400F, and it worked like a charm. Melted the parrafin in a crockpot, then mixed the two. I will try to machine on Monday. WIsh me luck.

Melted the parrafin in a crockpot, then mixed the two. I will try to machine on Monday. WIsh me luck.
The suspense is killing me... aaaaaaaaah!

And the results are?

What recipe or mix ratio did you finally decide on? Also what source did you use for the PE (soft drink bottles, PE sheet, sandwich bags, milk jugs, plastic wrap)??? Did you try adding any colorant to the mixture? Any PICs of the resultant block of potentially machineable wax?

I figured I'd ask since I was curious (and nobody else has, so far).

Thanks

OK. HAven't been lucky. I teach 2 hour blocks, and just can't seem to get it done with the kids. I decided on PE from the blue underflooring at Home Depot. Parrafin..no problem, have a pearl Paint in town (my home away from home)
Measured everything out...but there is just too much damn PE to melt. Melted down only a fraction so far. Then...what do I mold it in. Can I just make one big wooden box? Or what? I have gummed out so many beakers from the Chem dept trying to do this

I think it might just be easier to buy the damn wax from Thompson although not as fun.

I'll take some pics of what I've got so far.

I guess my question is why you are melting the PE first. if you melt the wax first and overheat it to about 275 F and add the PE slowly and it will disolve in the wax without much mess. then cast into anything you want. I cast in thin sheets, if you do thicker you need to control the cooling to get it to cool very slowly or you wull get a big shrink hole in the middle.

OK. I feel like an idiot for not making sure my kid followed the directions to a T . That was my fault. I just relooked at the isntructions and assumed an "A" chemistry student could follow them! THANK YOU .

I cast onto a piece of plywood with a piece of paper on it as a release. I then put a 'dam' of wood strips arond the paper. I generally cast about 3/16-1/4 thick and then plane on the cnc to finished thk. I use it to machine patterns for medals and medalians, mostly about 3/16 thick. i machine them while still stuck to the ply and when I have them cut thru they pop off the paper pretty easily. I then super glue them to a match plate for use in the foundry. If you control the cooling rate and cool very slowly you can control the shrink. At the thk I use the shrink is not a big factor(except that is why I haveto plane it off) Casting a block say 2-3 inches by however high you will get a huge shrink hole in the middle. Very sloow cooling (days) will help this.

Just to chime in here,

I spoke with Freeman supply recently and the guy suggetsed for thicker castings (>1") I make a bok out of aluminum plate. The plate should be relatively thick, so as to hold onto heat duiring the cooling process. The idea is to pour the wax into the aluminum box, then cover the box with a second plywood box that fits tightly around the first. This will insulate and alow the wax to cool S-L-O-W-L-Y. Supposedly you will minimize the sink-hole effect in the middle.

$.02

Carlo

thank you...
I just received my freeman caalog so I am psyched!
Unfortunately, aluminum costs me more money.... and pywood is cheap
I will try the plywood first, if it doesn't work, I will try the aluminum before resorting to purchasing full price machining wax

It seems to me that aluminum would draw heat off, causing the wax to cool too fast, especially on the outside surfaces in contact with the aluminum. I will be using MDF for a box when I get to this. Maybe have a hole in the center of the top to let heat out. Then it would cool from the center out. It also seems that you could layer your pours to help eliminate shrinkage. If you have a really level bench and make the last pour maybe 1/16” it might end up pretty flat.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

It seems to me that aluminum would draw heat off, causing the wax to cool too fast, especially on the outside surfaces in contact with the aluminum. I will be using MDF for a box when I get to this. Maybe have a hole in the center of the top to let heat out. Then it would cool from the center out. It also seems that you could layer your pours to help eliminate shrinkage. If you have a really level bench and make the last pour maybe 1/16” it might end up pretty flat.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

Harlow,

I had asked about doing it in several layers, and can't remember the reasoning against it. Perhaps it was that there can be memory between the layers (leading to delamination).

As for the aluminum robbing heat, especially from the outside, I think you want a bit of that so that as the wax cools, it shrinks and releases cleanly. The heat robbing quality of the aluminum shouldn't be such a problem as there is mass to the wax, so that there won't be too much of a heat gradient. I guess this depends on how thick you are casting...

I don't know how well the wax will release from MDF.

I guess there's only one way to find out!...

Carlo

I'm still trying to melt the damn thing..wait up! I'm looking for a larger sacrafice pot than a beaker..need to go to good will and find old stew pot I guess that doesn't come from my kitchen.

This thread reads like my experience with machinable wax. Its a royal PITA :D

A cam program with a good simulation beats the pants off of machining wax any day, IMO. With all the fuss that is required to make a wax billet, it in itself becomes too valuable to screw up.

I wonder if wax will cold flow under pressure? Maybe a press could squeeze wax chips together enough to make a machinable puck without the fuss of melting, etc? Anyone tried it?

If a wax model was the desired product, that is a different matter, so no offense intended to those who are using wax.

I am interested in wax molds in order to cast platics into like those from www.smooth-on.com. So mold making is my thing. Also looking to do some lost wax casting with ceramics in the kiln. So, unless I am missing something, I need the wax. My models I sacrafice in pnk styrofoam which I have aplenty

Hu,

Good idea about pressing, except you will end up with air pockets. Ok for proofing a program, but not for taking an impression.

I'm in a similar boat to Charper. I will be melting the wax away after I cast around it (hopefully avoiding the need for multiple-part molds :).

I don't think it needs to be a PITA. We just need to get a system down. Think of the money saved, even with all the time involved...

Carlo

Maybe pressing the wax chips in a heated aluminum mold would work better, to get a better bonding effect. I'm thinking more about a way to reduce the insanely long cooling off period whose only benefit is to reduce shrinkage.

Heat the mold, put the wax in, press on, and then cool it off (with a water jacket around the mold), or something like that. When cold, release the press. I'm talking about a simple hydraulic jack type of press.

...I'm in a similar boat to Charper. I will be melting the wax away after I cast around it (hopefully avoiding the need for multiple-part molds :)....

Before you get yourself deeply involved it may be worthwhile figuring out how much thermal expansion you get with the wax before it melts; the shrinkage you see on cooling is partly reflected as expansion on heating. It would be annoying to say the least if you wax pattern shattered your ceramic coating when you heated it enough to get the wax out.

I hadn't even thought that far ahead :eek:

I gues that opens a whole new ball of wax (pardon the pun).

The aproach may very well be to work backwards. Find a wax that doesn't expand too much (ie. a wax made for the lost wax process), then see if it machines.

Carlo

If shrinkage and resulatant crater is the only problem when cooled quickly, you could easily get around this problem and still cool the wax fast. The problem is caused by the center retaining heat and remaining n a liquid state as the edges cool. Because the depth starts high due to the expansion of the wax, the edges cool in the high level. As the wax cools and shrinks, less wax is available to keep the level up. What if you cooled the center?

A peltier(sp?) cooler the center of the pan rests on will cool/chill the center quickly. It may actually form a mound if cooled too quickly. With some experimentation I believe strongly that the crater problem can be addressed without long cooling periods needed at all.

..The aproach may very well be to work backwards. Find a wax that doesn't expand too much (ie. a wax made for the lost wax process), then see if it machines. Carlo

Just use regular lost wax wax but set your machines up in a deep freeze and wear warm clothing.:D

Just use regular lost wax wax but set your machines up in a deep freeze and wear warm clothing.:D

Not a bad idea LOL.

Actually, cooling the wax before machining may help if it proves too sticky/gummy at room temperatures.

I am interested in wax molds in order to cast platics into.....

How experimental do you want to be? I have often thought that sawdust reinforced wax might be a good material for making molds for plastic; one advantage would be you already have the mold release agent as part of the mold. I figured take ordinary candle wax that is quite low melting and stir in as much fine sawdust as possible then just let it set. My feeling is that there would be less shrinkage than pure wax and the strength should be much greater. The type of surface finish possible when machined would probably depend on how fine the sawdust was.

How experimental do you want to be? I have often thought that sawdust reinforced wax might be a good material for making molds for plastic; one advantage would be you already have the mold release agent as part of the mold.
Great idea, Geof, I think MDF dust would make an excellent filler. The correct wood/wax ratio would have to be ascertained when using the material for lost wax casting so that it would all get melted/burned out before casting. Though, for goofing around, testing, and prototyping I'd bet a fairly high wood/wax mix could be used. You'd need just enough wax to keep everything together during the machining process.

Back about 10 years ago while I was working at a custom injection molding operation they were testing HDPE/PP coupled with a wood filler. The molded parts looked and felt really nifty. The smell, though, would make you nauseous, even weeks after being molded. These parts were for a company that made office furniture. I couldn't imagine being trapped in an office with the wood filled plastic parts for any length of time. I guess they couldn't either as the project fizzled out before the parts ever made it to market. :(

Has anyone thought of, or tried.... drum roll, please... CRAYONS?

I was browsing through the local 'Mighty Dollar' store while my wife was picking out some birthday cards and came across a whole display rack loaded down with packs of 64 crayons for, you guessed it, $1.00 US. The pack, I'm guessing, weighed maybe a half pound. Not bad for a dollar.

Upon further inspection, the crayons seemed to be fairly hard. Anyone who has used crayons know that they run the whole gamut from soft (turn pliable with just the heat from your hand) to extremely hard (after some effort they break with an audible 'SNAP').

Melting all of the crayons together would, no doubt, produce an "ugly" colored block, but would it be suitable for machining? Any thoughts???

If crayons turned out to be a viable solution, someone that worked for a school (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, CHARPER) could probably start a 'Crayon Recycling Program' in the lower grades and obtain the wax for almost free. The only problem is getting volunteers to "peel" all of the crayons before they're melted. ;) Heating or soaking the crayons in water would probably expedite the wrapper removal process. Heating would have the added benefit of kick starting the melting process before the crayons are mixed with any hardeners or fillers.

I've seen crayons available in bulk packs (http://www.dixonpromosupport.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=ProductEngine.products&ndx=92) with as many as 3000 pieces, yielding crayons at around 3.5 cents a piece. The 'Mighty Dollar' is still less expensive at approx. 1.6 cents per crayon, though. Suppliers to educational institutions may also offer other incentives, packaging, or discounts for large purchases that aren't available to the public.

Other types of crayons are also available. Several that come to mind are marking crayons and lumber crayons. Additionally, my father used to work in a steel mill and he used marking sticks that melted at specific temperatures to write on the steel. I don't know if they are classified as crayons, or how much they cost, but some of them were so hard (high melt temp.) that when broken they crumbled into chips. These wouldn't be good for machining but the lower temp. ones might be. Just a few of my thoughts, for now.

so crayons are made of paraffin.....machineable wax appears to be a synthetic wax.....paraffin can be burned out in lost wax castings....not sure about the synthetic wax....

As a bonus, crayons are also non-toxic.

DixonUSA Prang Wax Crayons MSDS (http://www.dixonusa.com/pdf/shop/msds/PrangWaxCrayons.pdf)

Binney & Smith Crayola Crayons MSDS (http://intranet.risd.edu/envirohealth_msds/Crayola/CrayolaCrayons.pdf)

Speaking of crayons, here's a funny story from my childhood. When I was a kid, my sister and I had to make sure that we put away our crayons ASAP when we were finished using them. We also had to keep our crayon stashes in a couple of old metal lunch boxes complete with latch. We colored a lot and the lunchboxes were usually full of a wide variety of crayon colors and sizes. Our dog Smokey, half Husky & half German Shepherd in case anyone is interested, was the reason we couldn't leave the crayons laying about. Smokey just loved to eat them, color or brand didn't seem to make any difference. Losing a bunch of used, stubby, warped crayons to Smokey wasn't too bad, but the unopened box of 64 Crayola Crayons with sharpener and 'NEW' colors, left under the Christmas Tree, was another story.

One of the interesting side effects of Smokey's crayon eating was that she used to crap in Technicolor. No kidding, there were all kinds of colorful 'lawn sculptures' in our yard after a crayon eating frenzy! Nothing like a little extra color for the Holidays (Christmas, New Years, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, Fourth of July, etc., etc.)

There was one plus, however, it made it easy to locate the colorful piles for disposal or avoid the 'land mines' when playing in the yard. :D

you guys scare me
I LOVE IT!!!!
crayons... It would make a great experiment to try the crayons with varying levels of PE film to get a great consistency..but only after the machineable wax success because I

still haven't made the machinable wax...I need to buy a small stove, my oven isn't getting hot enough and it made me so frustrated, I just quit trying. I have been such a slacker these last 6 weeks.

Just wondering how much success has been had with this. I worry that wax flash point is 230F and polyethylene mealting point is 270-275F. People have been talking upto 400F.

How often has this been done and without accident?

OK. I am at it again. Pulled out the stuff after months of gathering dust and I still can't get the damn PE to melt down with the Parrafin wax. I am just going to bring the setup home and try it on my kitchen stove because the crock pot just won't get hot enough and I still haven't bought a hot plate from Walmart. But since I am trying to make a soap mold project for a Mother's day end of the year bash. HELP AGAIN! Maybe I am in over my head. Do you suggest heating via electric or gas? What will get me hot enough?

This process works for me. This applies to the blue stuff that we use so it may or may not work with other types of machinable wax.

First step is to download the MSDS sheets so that you understand what you are dealing with. Google "machinable wax MSDS" and you'll find several sources.

1. I only recycle the big pieces. The chips and dust are usually contaminated with other stuff that has been in the chip tray like metal, plastic, wood, etc.
2. Put the blocks into a Teflon coated brownie tin.
3. Put the tin in an oven for 30 minutes at 350F degrees.
4. Take the tin with the melted wax out to cool. As others have noted here, a big part of being successful with this is to cool the wax SLOWLY. I usually leave it set for 8+ hours before doing anything with it. How long this takes will also depend on how thick the wax slab is.
5. After the block has cooled, it should shrink away from the sides of the brownie tin by about 1/4" and you should be able to just turn it over and the slab should fall out on the table top.
6. You can use a band saw to cut the slab into smaller blocks. A planer works well if you want to smooth out the top and bottom sides.

About the crayon thing... you may find that the material chips more than you would like, when you try to machine it.

Hope this is helpful.

Hey Metal Head

Thanks for sharing...

Carlo

Just was experimenting around with making my own wax. Tried a few things. Using Paraffin wax as a base I tried adding got glue sticks.. this kind of worked dissolvability was an issue. I also found that Sears sells PE drop cloths for painting at about 2 bucks a lbs. It is marked as #4 recyclable which is Polyethelyne. I took the "log" of drop cloth and sliced it with a serated knife. Worked fairly well. I then melted the wax, added the PE and the die color (blue in this case).

One thing I did that most people probbaly did not is I experimented with HDPE and PE and Hot Glue. I also experimented with temperatures. According to the MSDS the flash point of Pariffin is above 450 F in open air and the Flash point of HDPE and PE is also above 450 F (someone check that to confirm, don't take my word for it). In any case I used a Digital Multimeter from Sears with a thermal Couple on it to measure temperature more exactly. I also used a stainless bottomed cooking pan. Worked fairly well took it right up to about 460 F (the self ignition temperature of these materials are way above 450 F so no worries there provided I don't accidentally drop a flame into them). I was able to melt most of the hot glue (I only added one small stick to about 1.5 shot glasses worth of Paraffin beads). I also added about half a shot glass of PE to it to see what happened. Turned out quite well. The wax is slightly flexible when cool it can be broken still but it gives a bit when you flex it and also cuts well (Haven't tried milling it yet).

I also tried half a shot glass of HDPE in a different batch couldn't get it to melt so I removed it. This batch is significantly more brittle then the one with PE and Hot Glue in it. I then mixed up a final batch with only PE in it this too is a bit more brittle then I want but probably better for machining.

Moral of the story dont' be affraid to heat up to 450 F with these but make sure you are very very careful. Wear a face mask and some protectant clothing. Also have a fire extinguisher near by just in case. And I recommend doing it where the fumes won't be a problem.

The hot glue addition is going to be a fun experiment.

Here is the hot glue I used (from Walmart)

http://www.adhesivetech.com/industrial-services/adhesives.cfm

Even melted it is still a bit more viscous then I'd like. It also raises the solidous temperature of the wax. At 200 F the PE Wax started to congeal. I guess it really depends on your application. I'm still looking into what temperature they cook the wax out of lost wax casting molds.

Just was experimenting around with making my own wax. Tried a few things. Using Paraffin wax as a base I tried adding got glue sticks.. this kind of worked dissolvability was an issue. I also found that Sears sells PE drop cloths for painting at about 2 bucks a lbs. It is marked as #4 recyclable which is Polyethelyne. I took the "log" of drop cloth and sliced it with a serated knife. Worked fairly well. I then melted the wax, added the PE and the die color (blue in this case).

One thing I did that most people probbaly did not is I experimented with HDPE and PE and Hot Glue. I also experimented with temperatures. According to the MSDS the flash point of Pariffin is above 450 F in open air and the Flash point of HDPE and PE is also above 450 F (someone check that to confirm, don't take my word for it). In any case I used a Digital Multimeter from Sears with a thermal Couple on it to measure temperature more exactly. I also used a stainless bottomed cooking pan. Worked fairly well took it right up to about 460 F (the self ignition temperature of these materials are way above 450 F so no worries there provided I don't accidentally drop a flame into them). I was able to melt most of the hot glue (I only added one small stick to about 1.5 shot glasses worth of Paraffin beads). I also added about half a shot glass of PE to it to see what happened. Turned out quite well. The wax is slightly flexible when cool it can be broken still but it gives a bit when you flex it and also cuts well (Haven't tried milling it yet).

I also tried half a shot glass of HDPE in a different batch couldn't get it to melt so I removed it. This batch is significantly more brittle then the one with PE and Hot Glue in it. I then mixed up a final batch with only PE in it this too is a bit more brittle then I want but probably better for machining.

Moral of the story dont' be affraid to heat up to 450 F with these but make sure you are very very careful. Wear a face mask and some protectant clothing. Also have a fire extinguisher near by just in case. And I recommend doing it where the fumes won't be a problem.

The hot glue addition is going to be a fun experiment.

Here is the hot glue I used (from Walmart)

http://www.adhesivetech.com/industrial-services/adhesives.cfm

Even melted it is still a bit more viscous then I'd like. It also raises the solidous temperature of the wax. At 200 F the PE Wax started to congeal. I guess it really depends on your application. I'm still looking into what temperature they cook the wax out of lost wax casting molds.



You are CRAZY man. I mean this in a good way. Hot Glue? Drop cloth? I never would have thought of using such materials...

You mentioned the viscosity is still higher than you'd like while heating. I wonder how that may impede trapped air from rising to the surface. I guess you'll know when you start machining it.

Please keep us informed.

Also, which of the hot glues did you end up using (there are three on that linked page)

Thanks!

Carlo

Actually I didn't use the hot glue mentioned there. I ended up doing something different. I have another thread on here but no idea where it is. I tried searching for it and now can't find it :(. I'll post back soon though with a link when I find it. I suspect that its being reviewed before being posted, or the thread has been pulled.

here is the other link, I searched for the wrong thing. Read this and get back to me.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23207&highlight=Machinable+Wax