i'm swapping my d80d motor on my IH for a 3200 RPM 56c motor. i picked it up for a bout $60.00 and other than needing an adapter flange and a new keyway plus a shaft bushing it fits right on. if anyone is interested i can attach pics. this new motor will give me the higher RPM that i want. the only thing i don't get is the variable speed from the VFD but i've got the gear head and it should work just fine.

Runner - yes, please post some pictures of your setup.

i will post some pics when i get home tonight.

heres some pics of what i built.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/56C_motor.jpg

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/56c_conversion_bracket.jpg

the bolts that bolt the motor to the head are captive between the motor and the bracket. granted its not ideal, but this will allow the use of more readily available 56C motors on these mills.

I've ran the 3450 RPM motor on the mill for a few days now and its alot nicer than the original 1725 RPM that was there. it also seems quieter than before. this might be an easier option for an upgrade on this mill other than converting a D90D to D80D specs.

"new keyway plus a shaft bushing"

What did you have to do, widen the keyway?
And please describe the shaft bushing....you've got me intrigued!

the shaft bushing is sized to go over the motor shaft, and then fit into the mill head. basically i turned a bushing so it was a tight fit over the shaft.

the key way, is a stepped keyway with the small end fitting the motor and the large end fitting the mill head. i will try and show some pics tomorrow.

Not sure if this is really easier than converting D90 to D80 spec, which only need the shaft turned down and a new keyway cut. D90 and D80 share the same B5 flange dimensions with the same bolt pattern.

However, D90 conversion is better suited if you want to go the 3ph VFD route. Single phase AC metric motors are not easily found here in USA. IF you want to stay single phase AC, 56C motors are much more common place.

Nice work. Looks like it will work very well for you.

This is my manual mill so i don't plan on using the VFD, which is exactly why i made this conversion to go to 56C. much more readily available motors and there for less expensive.

the only thing i now have an issue with is that the capacitors are turned so that i can use the power drawbar that bob warfield built. i will have to modify the concept to make it work. not really a major problem, but i thought i'd post it.

good idea for a higher rpm motor,inexpensive conversion, i can't figure why
it would be more quieter though, i will plan on doing this also .
thanks for your posts.

btw: how is the foaming of the gear box oil at the higher speed?

i'm running the recommend modil DTE light as was posted on aarons website. the head foams at 3600 but i don't think this is really that big of a problem. the head foamed when i had the 1700 RPM motor on there too.

Runner - how warm does the head of your mill get with the Mobil light?

wildcat, how are you guys measuring the head temp? i have no idea how warm it is, since i haven't measured it. but i'll have some time this week so i'll get it done.

I just used a handheld IR thermometer. I don't recall the exact accuracy... seems like it is +/- 2% of the reading.

the only thing i now have an issue with is that the capacitors are turned so that i can use the power drawbar that bob warfield built. i will have to modify the concept to make it work. not really a major problem, but i thought i'd post it.
Can you not easily turn the 56C motor so that the capacitors are pointed sideways? I have to look at how my D90 motor is oriented on mine, but I'm pretty sure I can turned the motor to any of the 4 orientations. I actually have it worse than you, since my Leeson 2HP D90 has a large electrical termination box. Your 56C doesn't appear to have that. Or may be it's not shown in you pics?

I agree BW did a great job on the ATC. Sure inspired me to give it a try. Doesn't seem to be all that difficult. I bought a 3/8" HF impact wrench some yrs back and never used it. It looks just like Bob's and may actually be the same model.

your can index the motor into any of 4 postions, however, if the capacitors point to the rear, then they interfere with the column. if you capacitors point to the side of the switch then your wire input is in the rear. this maybe ok if you use a 90° strain relief. i may end up doing this over the holiday week. if you have the capacitors go the other way, the the wiring is in front. i don't like my wires hangin out where there are moving parts. i agree it would probably be ok, but i didn't want to risk it. as of yet i haven't built the pwoer drawbar, i'll keep you guys posted.

i haven't gotten to the temp yet. but the higher speed motor is just the ticket this mill needed. cutting at 3400 RPM is amazing compared to 1800. i do mostly aluminum work and its a night and day difference. i recommend upgrading to everyone who has one of these mills. whether you use what i did or you go with a d80d type conversion its definitely worth the trouble.

RUNNER4404SP,
lOOKS GOOD, ARE YOU PLANNING TO DO THIS MOD TO YOUR IH CNC ALSO?

yup, i definitely plan on doing this on my cnc version too. i think this would be great to also add a belt drive too and then get some really nice speeds for a bench mill.

An easy way to acurately measure temperature is to use a K type thermocouple. ( Chrome-Alum) The yellow one. My cheapy volt ohm meter reads temp. To make a thermocouple the ends of the wires have to be welded , or crimped , or jamed together. Thermocouples create a voltage (although small) from the two differant metals in proportion to temp. After you make this you can use it for any thing including air temp. Lee:)
After checking the web I found some numbers.
1370 deg c = 2498 deg f almost 55mv
-270 deg c = -454 deg f almost -6.5 mv
So you see the range is big enough.
Temp between these two numbers post a mv output.
The complete ref chart is a PDF file. Just search the web for it.
These numbers are corected with a 0 deg c referance.
Without a ref your numbers will reflect the ambient temp dif.
Lee

Hey there runner, you still around?
I am interested in this flange you made up and any more info

I am going to swap out my single phase RF45 motor for a 3 phase 56C motor
the new motor has a smaller keyway smaller diam shaft - So I will need to chat with you if we can!

thanks

yeah i'm still here. in fact i'm running this flange on my IH cnc mill now as well. works perfect and with probably 3000 hrs on both mills i can comfortably say this is a good investment.

EXCELLENT!
Glad its working out for you.
I have a similar issue my self........I want to replace the original motor on my RF45 to 3 phase. But the only motor I could get from work was a 56C frame with a much smaller diameter shaft and smaller width keyway.

The keyway I can mill larger - and the shaft will be enlarged with a bushing much like you did.
My new motor shaft is also quite a bit longer, I can either cut that back or just compensate for the length in my new flange ( make it thicker )

What material did you use for the bushing ?
As for the bushing, did you just make it fit the 3 phase motor ID and then turned the OD to the old motors diameter - Then notch a long piece out of the bushing so the keyway can sit some where or how exactly did you do this?

I am sorry if I cant explain my self better, I my self am more visual then verbal.
I dont own a lathe or rotary table so i am unsure how to go about my little issue I have here.......How did you tackle the 56C flange to the mill - Turned it or milled it?

I wonder if I could weld it together if both flanges where from steel.
Thanks a bunch Runner

Nice work Runner.


Any mod you can do cheap and it work for your needs is a good one.

BTW do you have a RR, I think they are my favorite car and I miss driving them. I daily drive a 68 Cuda still today but I miss the big cars.


Jess

Any more pictures of the adaptor plate and the stepped keyway?

thanks

No i don't have any more pics of the keyway or the plate only what i already posted.EXCELLENT!

for me the stepped keyway was a no brainer ideally i wanted a mod that would allow me to use any old 56c motor available and this did it.

What material did you use for the bushing ?
the bushing is 1018 cold rolled steel, really it can be almost anything as its just a centering bushing. the load is carried by the keyway. making the bushing out of aluminum or steel should be fine.

the bushing id was turned to size so it fit tight on the shaft. then i cut the slot and then turned the od to the right size. this was tricky as the bushing wanted to spring open. so i ended up making two of these.

the flange is both turned and milled. i turned the od on my 9x20 lathe along with the steps for the motor mounts. i don't recommend welding as it may warp your flange. my flange was made out of aluminum as it seemed a good choice and i had a peice on hand. again for this aluminum or steel will do just fine.

How would I go about making the bushing for this......Any more info would be appreciated!

What size motor is fitted to your machines "originally"? Mine has a 56 motor on with a 5/8" shaft 2" long....My VFD arrived yesterday and the motor I'm going to fit has a 24mm shaft 50mm long....So I'm thinking I'm going to be machining the shaft smaller a new keyway and maybe an adaptor plate....Just a tad confused with the bushing idea....Here in the UK the largest KW rating for the 56 frame size is 1.1KW (or 1.5HP in old money) Might it be worth casting an adaptor plate?

the motor that comes with the machine is a 1.5HP 1725 RPM metric frame motor (d80d). the 56c motor that i was able to get was a 3hp. i was able to get it in both single phase and 3 phase to control with a vfd on my cnc. both motors are now 3450 RPM. this is a considerable difference in cutting ability especially when cutting aluminum.

Strange how we have the exact opposite problems? What size are the shafts please?

the d80d motor has a 19mm shaft and the 56c has a 5/8 inch shaft. ultimately i am running this through a gear box to drive my spindle so with the gears i get 6 speeds all the way from 200 rpm to 3200 rpm.

I've just finished replacing the 56 frame motor with a 90 with a B5 flange mount on it..Turned the shaft from 24 to 19mm...bolted it on and connected to the VFD...much much quieter! Speed is up to 4000 RPM although I'll be restricting myself to 2500 until I get the cooling in place (or change the bearings?) I bought the motor from Martin at M&R Controls at Tibshelf...Good prices.

Whooaa.... I estimate 10 minute lifespan at 3500....limited to 2500...and still hot!

Wife and kids for sale to pay for bearings :)

@ 3000RPM I measure 80C after 5 minutes (measured with NSK digital thermometer on the collar)

Kipper, good work sir!
I am doing a similar job on my RF45 mill, Is it advisable to limit the machine to 2K total RPM?

Also I am having a hard time working out my problem, I want to put a 56C 3 phase motor on my mill which is of course a D80D. ( B5 flange )
Lots of issues, such as the 56C motor has smaller keyseat, and smaller diam shaft, Not to mention different mounting form and of course longer shaft.

Is there such a thing out there for 56C to B5 - Or several flanges and weld them together you think?
I have no lathe and I am limited to my work on a mill with no rotary table!

Any ideas?!
Thanks

Kipper, good work sir!
I am doing a similar job on my RF45 mill, Is it advisable to limit the machine to 2K total RPM?

Also I am having a hard time working out my problem, I want to put a 56C 3 phase motor on my mill which is of course a D80D. ( B5 flange )
Lots of issues, such as the 56C motor has smaller keyseat, and smaller diam shaft, Not to mention different mounting form and of course longer shaft.

Is there such a thing out there for 56C to B5 - Or several flanges and weld them together you think?
I have no lathe and I am limited to my work on a mill with no rotary table!

Any ideas?!
Thanks Hi VooDooMan, I was all set to make an adaptor plate...until I measured the PCD on the existing motor....They seem to differ between UK and (I'm assuming) the US would the OP or another member near you make you an adaptor plate? Will the flange from one not fit the other? Is your existing motor shaft 19mm with a 6mm keyway and the 56 a 5/8" with a 0.187" width keyway? if so an adaptor bush 5/8" ID and 19mm OD 50mm Long with a 0.187" slot cut down it's length will adapt it (make the new woodruff key on your mill) I believe (if your 80 B5 flange is the same as mine) the locating spigot is 130mm and the 56 frame is 121 so an adaptor plate is probably your only option.

Can you post the dimensions of what you have and what you want?

I think I've figured why my mill is getting hot....The bearing is "old" and bone dry! the method of mounting these is "piss...poor" no lubrication!!

Bearing number is 30207 JR and made by Koyo....I think it needs some form of lubrication :D I'm going to fit an oil feed to it and see how the heat goes.

Hello Kipper, thanks for the detailed reply! - At least some one cares!

I am actually located in Western Canada.......
The flange from the original metric motor is actually APART of the motor it self, its cast as one piece.

http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/22365235/sn/438961913
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/22365235/sn/203483008
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/22365235/sn/281267734

As you can see there is of swapping of flanges!
(big one is my original ).

Now the bigger one has a bigger shaft diam = .786" ( 19mm )
Bigger key = .246"
Shorter length of shaft = ? unknown at this time......

New motor has smaller keyway width, Smaller diam shaft and longer length shaft.

I plan to do exactly that for the bushing it self, but it will be different specs, OD will be 19MM ID will be 5/8" and well I am not sure what to do with my keyway, since the key in the original motor is much bigger - This posses a problem, either mill a new one in my new motor or have it sent out and a bearing shop can do it for $$$$$$.

Then just trim is down so the length is equal to my old specs.
I don't have spigots as you can see, Just 4 bolts...........

I can get you more dimensions though, Would be nice if some one could fire a rotab up and machine one for me, but that takes time and metal and effort, nothing is free in this life!

I hope you can fire some oil into that bearing and cool it down, I am going to limit mine to 2K RPM.

Keep up the great work Kipper!
Cya

Measure the shaft length on the new one the PCD or between 2 bolt hole centres and the mounting spigot (I've circled them...you may call them by another name?)... I have the measurements from the old one :) just needs drawing up and an RFQ placing.

1.8" from tip the the end of the shaft ( in my case a little radius )

I don't really understand what you want me to measure, the sentence is not broken down or stopped so its like a run on sentence, Especially to a apprentice millwright, If there is no torch and welding machine we are all lost haha

What is RFQ placing?

4.5" diam for the raised lip on the little 3 phase grey motor.
5.115" diam for the raised lip on old motor.

Are you asking for D = C sin ( 180 M N ) when you say PCD or what exactly do you need me to find out........Sorry - I don't know too much yet.

http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/22365235/sn/281267734

So I went ahead and did the PCD on the new motor.

basically just measured 2 bolt holes that are oppisite to one another ( in a diagonal way of that makes sense )

First with 2 bolts came to 6.245" then minused a whole bolt since it was to the OD not the middle, 1 whole bolt is 2 half's ( from either side )
- .380"

6.245-.380 = 5.865" PCD........I wonder if thats right lol

Thanks

PCD= Point Circle Diameter... Measure (accurately) between 2 bolt holes then divide the answer by 0.7071 to get the PCD (or just accurately measure between the boltholes and CAD will do the rest)....I have to tell you the Imperial measurements are playing havoc with me :D

An RFQ is a Request For Quote...there's a section on the forum for those.

There'll be even less punctuation if I don't go to bed 01.50 here :)

Hey Kipper, thanks for clearing it up!

yea go to bed big guy........
Oh there is an RFQ in here, hah I didn't know that!
So I did what you asked.......I used 2 Q letter drill bits, best fitting ones I had.
I got 4.475" between the 2 and then / by .7071
PCD = 6.328"

http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/22365235/sn/1972892689

Sorry for the metric to imperial conversion - Don't blame me, Blame north america haha!
Thanks

hey guys before you go trying to measure everything and potentially get it wrong... doa google search for d80d dimensions and 56c dimensions. all the dimensions are already posted online with proper tolerances.

btw voodooman, the PCD should be on the hole opposite it not the one next to it.

Right thats what I was saying Runner, the opp hole not the next to it.......Which would make my original measurement ideal.

What do I know............
Thanks for the google idea!

RFQ placing means to place an RFQ (request for quote) to see how much somebody wants to make it.
If you have a drawing I will give you a quote on the parts. Send me a PM if interested.

Your dimensions look correct. The other way to say it is that the bolts are 5.865" on center.

I would call it a mounting register, not a spigot, but it all depends where in the world you are.

hey guys before you go trying to measure everything and potentially get it wrong... doa google search for d80d dimensions and 56c dimensions. all the dimensions are already posted online with proper tolerances.

btw voodooman, the PCD should be on the hole opposite it not the one next to it. That would be fine unless it has 5 holes...In which case measure the distance between 2 holes next to each other and divide by 0.3878 so clearly I know what a PCD is?

In it's simplest form it is the dia of the circle items are arranged on.

I prefer universal solutions, measure twice cut once etc....imho.

TOTALLYRC... I like mounting register....sounds kind of rude :) It seems the OP is unwilling to part with the info needed to help VooDooMan :cheers:

At £38 for the cheapest postage over the pond.....It's too expensive for me to make it.

Kipper you are right on the pcd sorry my mistake. i'm not trying to hold out any info from anyone and all the info to make this is available online. i recommend getting it online as i don't want to be liable for any issues in my design. i know mine works however, i know its limitations.

Kipper you are right on the pcd sorry my mistake. i'm not trying to hold out any info from anyone and all the info to make this is available online. i recommend getting it online as i don't want to be liable for any issues in my design. i know mine works however, i know its limitations. I see where you're coming from matey...Too many frame sizes and variants for small motors around the world. My "book" is from 1968 so it's a tad dated :) I think that VDM has a .pdf file now with the pertinent details to request a quote for one making. :cheers: