Hello. I'm a 3D artist (modeler/animator). I've been taken by the idea of turning my models (mostly fantastic creatures) into miniature figurine sculpures that I could then cast. I would also like to carve reliefs of my models as architectural accents, and as art pieces. I've been considering building a 3-Axis router for this purpose.

Unfortunately, my wife feels thinks it won't work, and that it will be just a waste of money.

Does anyone have any experience in this arena? Is there anyone who would be willing to try machining one of my models out of wax, plastic, resin or foam?

Here is the model I am working on as a test run.
http://cleancg.com/forums/index.php?topic=93.0

Also, is there much demand in the CNC community for artistic 3d modelers or is it all industrial application?

A 3 axis router won't make complex figures like your (nice!) minotaur, and even a 4 axis will have trouble with the more slender parts.

You can do this easily with rapid prototyping methods such as 3D plastic printing or stereolithography. New machines are pretty expensive, but I've seen used ones on Ebay for several thousand.

I'd consider finding a rapid prototyping company to make you a model. I bet you could get a 6" minotaur for a couple hundred bucks.

There is a demand for artistic 3D. I've seen it used mostly in architecture, entertainment, and singage.

-Jeff

Look at this link, Whiteriver did this with only 4-axis. This guy is good!


http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/857/cat/500/ppuser/1498

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I'd consider finding a rapid prototyping company to make you a model. I bet you could get a 6" minotaur for a couple hundred bucks.Jeff


If he can, he better jump on it. I'm not a betting man, but I would nearly bet you he couldn't get close to that for cnc carving? I just know how long it takes to carve something a lot more simple than that plus to get all the detail it will have to be machined with two or three bits and the speeds won't be very high.

Mike

I was thinking of carving it in parts. (arms, legs torso, head) But it will actually be much more complex than this because the figure is not posed yet. Eventually it will be carying a shield and some kind of sword.

Maybe I'm asking too much from subtractive methods.

I don't have the cash for a additive prototyping machine.

I've asked a few people, and they all say that the machining time required is too long and that it would cost me > $1000 to machine it.

I've been thinking that if I had a homebuilt router I could set it to work without incurring so much cost. Could such a macine even carve with enough detail for a 4" - 6" figure?

I'd thought I could machine this thing out of high density foam and then use a lost foam process to cast a master. Then I'd make silicon molds from that. Then I could cast it out of resin.

My thinking is that I want to make hundreds of different kinds of creatures and sell them as a kind of collector set.

If he can, he better jump on it. I'm not a betting man, but I would nearly bet you he couldn't get close to that for cnc carving? I just know how long it takes to carve something a lot more simple than that plus to get all the detail it will have to be machined with two or three bits and the speeds won't be very high.

Mike


Mike, I was talking about an additive method, not a subtractive one. Google "stereolithography" to see what I mean.

ST45, There are companies out there that are rapid prototyping job shops. Just send them a copy of your model to get an estimate.

Unless you *want* to make them yourself, you may find you can have quite alot of them made for what you would pay for a machine to do it yourself.

-Jeff

Thanks for the advice.

What I'm hearing you say is that a home-built cnc router isn't practical for my application--but if I'm obsessed with playing with a machine, I can knock myself out.

That's good to know.

You guys are great!

st45,

I think you would be better off, building a very small cnc (4-axis) If all you will be cutting is foam.






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I have cut some really detailed stuff on a five axis cnc mikron mill but still not sure if this would be possible. I envy the man that would be able to program that! Good Luck!

I have cut some really detailed stuff on a five axis cnc mikron mill but still not sure if this would be possible. I envy the man that would be able to program that! Good Luck!


One way to program it is, use a stereo lithography program to cut the model into slices. Each slice profile is sent to a routine to write the code for rotational and Z profiles. Easy!! Got other projects I'm working on right now! I will add this to my list to investigate.

...Google "stereolithography" to see what I mean. -Jeff

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/stereolith.htm

"Stereolithography, also known as 3-D layering or 3-D printing, allows you to create solid, plastic, three-dimensional (3-D) objects from CAD drawings in a matter of hours. Whether you are a mechanical engineer wanting to verify the fit of a part or an inventor looking to create a plastic prototype of an invention, stereolithography gives you a fast, easy way to turn CAD drawings into real objects."

"Stereolithography is not an inexpensive process. The machines themselves usually cost in excess of $250,000. They have to be vented because of fumes created by the polymer and the solvents. The polymer itself is extremely expensive. CibaTool SL5170 resin, a common photopolymer used in stereolithography, typically costs about $800/gallon. For these reasons, it is uncommon to find stereolithography machines anywhere but in large companies."

http://www.quickparts.com/quickquote/adduser.asp

"With our QuickQuote process, product designers can get instant price quotes and buy custom parts online 24x7."

I agree with the rapid prototyping. You can find a company who has a 3d-printer and they can make a high res 3-d object (even in color) straight from a 3d object file.

Here's an example: http://www.emco.co.uk/rapid.htm

The finsihed object can handle finishing pretty well (sanding/painting). Or you could have them print and inverted image and cast an object from that (low temp materials). I have seen these on ebay for a few $K. For what you want to do this makes the most sense. A 6 inch character would take this machine about 2-4 hours so I would assume about $400-$800.

Heres a 3D Printer going for $1k st45. Within your budget maybe...

http://cgi.ebay.com/3D-Systems-Actua-2100-3D-Concept-Modeler-Printer_W0QQitemZ320032266096QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3180QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/3D-Systems-Actua...QQcmdZViewItem


diarmaid,
Good find.

I know this is off topic, but I read an article a while back that they are working on printing organs at Clemson University, thats wild!

http://www.ces.clemson.edu/bio/people/boland.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1603783&page=1&ad=homepage




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Switcher....WOOW!!!! That is absolutely fantastic. Those guys are certainly thinking outside the box and I love anyone who does that. That is AMAZING Im flabbergasted. Its projects like that which make people great. This is the 'can do' attitude that advanced us beyond living in caves and into space. It really is fantastic. So many people would read that and throw up their eyes and spout 'scientific facts' why it wouldn't work and ridicule the scientists. If more people had the attitude that any obstacles can be overcome the world would be a better place. Its coming across things like that, on those few occasions that I do, which make me believe that we really can do anything and there is hope for humanity. It might not be an everyday technology in my lifetime, but you never know, look at how fast the computer revolution happened. Thanks for the links. :cheers: FANTASTIC. :D :D

Ok, so here's the naive question of the day...

Why couldn't someone modify one of these inkjet plotters, mount it on a z-axis and home build an additive system?

Has anyone done this sort of thing?

They could. The ink is some type of glue so you would need to be able to replace the ink in the cartridge with this glue. The z axis would need to lift the printer so it could put down a clean layer of sand (or whatever they use). It seems pretty doable. You would need to change the Y axis from a roller to moving the "box" of sand also so there might be a power issue. Also, I think there's some type of light the dries the glue...that would need to be worked in there also.

Once I get all the bugs out of my mill I would be inteested in trying to mill your project. Cost you a beer or 2. Be a couple of months before I am ready. I would like to specilize in very small runs. If you provide the file perverted to Mach 3 or in a format that lazycam knows I would hope to keep a 12" model to $100

coming to this forum and topic a little late to be of help, but have had similar challenges making things from my 3d models at home and work. If you do shop out your work this will be a good fix if it is not something you will see yourself doing hands-on in the future. I had enough things I needed to do that I went the mill route and bought a machine....but, I also used it for my dayjob at a production company.
If you outsource, you wont be able to stop and make changes....there might be unseen problems in your model when sent to a shop. After several attempts you might have spent enough to buy a used (small build envelope) milling machine, but you have to be good at slicing up your model. This guys looks like he is doing similar stuff:
http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/Products/Case/hollywood.htm

here are some pics from my project:

http://www.troyengel.com/html/sharkgogs_c.html

I have to slice up most of my models to get the detail as I am working with 3 axis machine.
Hope this helps,
Troy

Sorry for responding to an old post. I also do some 3D art designs. I have an expensive 3D printer and I am not impressed with it. I would much rather design a two part mold in Rhino, import to Mastercam and run on my 3-axis mill. Then I cast the part with pewter or plastic. Pretty nice detail if you ask me. Better than my 50,000 Dimension 3D printer and not as fragile.

IF this is still an active thread forward it to BILL GRIFFIN, he may access toa Rapid Prototype Machine. He also is very very talented at Soldiworks, I betch he can help with one part, not sure about a run of them but trying one might be doable. IF he gets mad don;t tel him I sent you<G> fik

This is the sort of thing that is normally sculpted by hand. Look at games workshop, privateer press or McFarlane, all hand sculpt. I am an ID and sculptor model maker and work with quite a few engineers from Hasbro. Guys that were around since before the 80's GI Joe era. hasbro still does this sort of thing by hand, sculpted in wax and then digitised in for burning thier molds. I have also talked to ID's that do work for Hasbro as well and they usualy make the base substrate or form of the product and a sculptor finished off the "sculptural" details by hand over an RP of the digital file.
The reason for this is that it is far easier and quiker to sculpt these sort of things by hand that to electronically model them and the detail and life derived from a hand sculpt are superior.

With this said it is all what you expect from the process and how much you are willing to spend. At work we use a dimension ABS addative system probably similar to what someone mentioned earlier. It is a relatively inexpensive machine for its class but as a result the resolution and quality is not so good>>>.02 x .01 high strands it builds in. In most cases it is good for only a rough prototype.

Stratasys makes a printer that is extremely expensive but seems very good.
I have a few samples or Raptor Heads from a show when we were researching machines. Very good detail
SLA is ok but I am not sure for this application.
Someone earlier showed a link to a milled pic of a barbarian which looked great but probably the machine costs a mint.

As mentioned you may be able to have it made by a job shop.



I personally bought a small 4 axis mill for the same purpose you mention. My expectations are reasonable with its functionality. I do not expect to ever pull a fully finished model off the machine. Hand finishing at the least will always be needed. In most cases I plan to make parts to larger assemblies or rough structural mock ups to use a subsrtates to begin hand sculpting...etc. etc. I have been a sculptor for years so wish to finish by hand but the machine will act as my "grunt worker" by carving repetative parts, tediouse rough outs and so on. The other thing is very geometric forms which is the thing that CAD and CAM excell at.At any rate the plan is to break things down to workable and logical parts. As is the case with and sort of model making or sculpting.



The minatuar looks very good. I would drop the biker shorts though and go for something more like a loin cloth(studded leather straps possibly). Something a little more suited to the Genra or the time period. Take a look at some Greek pictures and see what the Hoplites and such are wearing. I would suggest a bronze axe over stone for the same reason above.


As far as building something of this nature it is worth mentioning that unless the pose is very static and centrally parted as you have shown the production model will probably need to be split into parts to make it castable for production. Even in your case the chain is an issue. This lends itself to my theory of splitting into more basic parts. This is a good way to approach the limitations presented by 3 or 4 axis milling. You wont be able to mill all around every contour especially the ones that are internally surrounded surfaces with the fully assembled model especially if it is complex with a complex pose. If the model is split into parts you will stand a far better chance of fully capturing the geometry of each part then you assemble the whole thing post casting.

Check out RepRap (http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome).

Check out Reprap (http://reprap.org). DIY at home rapid prototyping using extruded plastic. Very cool stuff.

I use Freeform for CAD modeling figures and other parts. http://www.sensable.com

It's the best for true sculpting, there's force feedback so you can feel the part as you work on it. It's heavily used in the toy industry as well. Nice, but plenty pricey.

CB Model Pro is free and fun to play with.
http://www.cbmodelpro.com

I have a 4th axis machine, you can make figures with it by cutting some parts off, arms that stick out and such. If you plan ahead you can make it work. It's easier to have figures made using Rapid Prototyping machines though. Both methods have their advantages and limitations.

There's plenty of RP suppliers with machines of varying resolutions.

These guys are the cheapest I've seen.
http://www.3darttopart.com/product%20info.php#proton2

Rapid Prototype machines are getting cheaper @ $5000.
http://www.desktopfactory.com/

You can build your own.
http://www.fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Even ones that use sugar!
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/candyfab

How well do 3-axis machines handle very simple 3-D shapes? Like say a segment of a sphere. How many slices can you cut a model into in software?

Thanks,
Steve

There's no limit to how many slices I can cut a piece into as far as I know. So if you wanted, you could slice your model into what would scale to 1" slices in the final size, cut the profiles in 1" foam on a cnc router, stack them up and have your basic shape at whatever size you needed. It's a fairly popular method for scaling up to monumental size.

I can also define cut lines and cut parts off, like arms, hands, whatever, add a way to register them, mill them seperately, then reassemble.

A 3 axis mill could cut any part of up to a full sphere, a half at a time. The limitations in the size and surface finish are defined by size and accuracy of the mill and the cutters used more than anything.