Is it just me or every company I work for is the same? The boss promise you "You do good job and I will give you a raise in 6 months or in certain months.". Then months went by and I ask for a raise....... The reply is: Blah Blah Blah :argue: ..... wait few more months, and few months later I come back again Blah Blah Blahhhhhhhhh: argue: ..... wait few more months. I changed my job 3 times because of that, and you know the funny thing is; Then right after I gave them 2 weeks notice I will leave :bs: , the raise is there right away.

Is it your company do the same to you? what is the fair tail story they give you "Oh we are kind of tigh on the budget"?

(flame2)
:bat:

I once worked for a company and every year the letter came regarding the yearly bonus "due to the way various competitors have conducted their business...bla bleat NO BONUS" Vote with your feet is my way too :D

Is it just me or every company I work for is the same? The boss promise you "You do good job and I will give you a raise in 6 months or in certain months.". Then months went by and I ask for a raise....... The reply is: Blah Blah Blah :argue: ..... wait few more months, and few months later I come back again Blah Blah Blahhhhhhhhh: argue: ..... wait few more months. I changed my job 3 times because of that, and you know the funny thing is; Then right after I gave them 2 weeks notice I will leave :bs: , the raise is there right away.

Is it your company do the same to you? what is the fair tail story they give you "Oh we are kind of tigh on the budget"?

(flame2)
:bat:

Sadly that scenario is all too familiar.:rolleyes:

I've found the 2 most powerful words at work is "I Quit". As soon as the boss hears that even the sea can be parted, at a moments notice. I've grown tired of that over the last few years, and started my own gig. Now some days, I wish for the "good old days..."

The problem is by the time you decide to quit....your dedication to the company has pretty much vanished and the money just isn't worth it anymore.

Shop owners need to get a clue.....yeah, like that will ever happen....you might try a different approach when you start a new job.....ask them to put down in writing what you need to accomplish to get a certain percentage raise.....I suspect most won't...which tells you alot about the organization.

I've found the 2 most powerful words at work is "I Quit". As soon as the boss hears that even the sea can be parted, at a moments notice. I've grown tired of that over the last few years, and started my own gig. Now some days, I wish for the "good old days..."

looking in the mirror and saying screw you i quit !!! just wouldn t be as much fun :argue:

The last time I asked for a raise I also said "I quit starting from tomorrow" (of course I had my resignation prepared in advance and sitting in my shirt pocket waiting to be pulled out if the right moment presented itself) in the same meeting. I had a month of unused vacation time which allowed me to look for another job and still get paid.

I never had to worry about a raise since - I started my own company! :D

I own my company, I get to work as long as I want to.
Regards Walt.

I own my company, I get to work as long as I want to.
Regards Walt.

And for as low a wage as you want to; negative sometimes.

And for as low a wage as you want to; negative sometimes.

That's the shop owner's fault. Owners are stupid for the most part, low-bidding things to the extent that they lose money. Until shop owners brighten up and start charging a fair price for parts, the employees aren't going to get their money either.

I sure am glad I was stupid enough to start a business
some 20 odd years ago and provide a place for people
to work that were not stupid enough to start a business.
If I had it all to do again, I would do the same as I did.
Some changes to be sure but for the most part stupid or
not I would still own this business and provide jobs and
good service to other owners of machine shops.
Regards Walt..

Yea Walt.!.!

I had to leave the room after reading DOC's comment. Then come back.

Through out the years I provided 15 to 23 jobs for skilled machinests, welders and fabricators..none of their paychecks bounced,and yes, I was GUILTY at times of "Low Bidding" to keep everyone working..Call me stupid ? Bet I got more cash in the bank than DOC,don't owe any body one cent, and I sleep real good, also enjoy retirement and still talk to about 90 % of my former employees. ( the company that bought me out, had to in writting, offer all of the present employees samo - samo with extended benifits )
The only way a small business survives is integritey..to employees and customers alike..if your only goal is $$$, ( I erased what I really wanted to say ) instead I will be polite : Your WRONG !

Adobe (old as dirt )

Integrity doesent seem to be a requirement for owning a business anymore. I agree that it makes the difference between a great place to work and one that is not, but since moving to Southern California 10 years ago I could count the business owners with integrity I've met on one hand. And half of them are struggling and trying to figure out how to survive while competing with a bunch of scoundrel's.

They are out there, but most businesses are not run by ethical caring employers that have the customer and employee in mind. The places I've worked have been large impersonal entities with board members and stock holders.

I did work for two private employers over the last 10 years. One was an OK guy, almost a friend actually, untill I ripped a three inch hernia in my gut open and he wouldn't let me get it fixed on workmans comp (I'd been working for him for three years), so I quit and went to work for a competitor (that gave me insurance right off the bat) the next day. He showed up at a job sight a couple of weeks later and wanted to "beat me up". (He changed his mind when I smiled and picked up my hammer and said "great!".) We are still aquaintances, and see each other and are civil, but essentially what he did was completely wrong and he knew it.

Ther other guy was OK and honest and probably not a bad guy, but he was drunk all day long and I couldn't deal with it.

They are out there , but not the norm and are getting harder to find all the time.

I own my company, I get to work as long as I want to.
Regards Walt.

Same here. A friend of mine in the same business once said. "I don't mind minimum wage, but I do hate not being able to earn that much"

Karl "apple grower by day" Townsend

They just raised the minimum wage.
Does that mean us stupid shop owners all get a raise.
Lets see, about 11 weeks til Christmas, maybe the little
woman will get sumpin in her sock.
I've been waiting for a pay raise for a long time.
If I wasn't so stupid, I could have figgered something out
before the government went and caused me to get a raise.
Regards. Walt.

Wow, you other shop owners are pretty sensitive!

How do you react when you don't get a job? Do you cry to your mommy?

I am a shop owner and I see what other shop owners do. I know what I'm saying when I call most of them stupid. I never called anyone here stupid so stop copping the attitude, ok?

Halfnutz: Sorry to hear of your problems with previous employers..Your statement about the boss not letting you get a hernia fixed on Wkms Comp?

I was under the impression all employers are responsible to have Wkms Comp Insurance regardless ( some large companies "Self Insure" if they can prove they have the resources to pay ) If the accident happened at work, an employer is required to fill out a first report of accident and send you to the Workman Comps Insurance designated Clinic or Doctor immediatly !
The employer can not refuse if the accident happened at work, if he had no Workmans Comp Ins, you should have called a shark ( Lawyer) and ended up owning the company
I can not understand a legitimate machine shop not having Workmans Comp. Insurance...heck even the boss gets hurt some times.
I did call friend that manages a machine shop in Southern Calif, and he did confirm that Wkms Comp is required in Calif, and their laws are similar to those in other states, if not tougher.

Adobe (old as dirt )

Wow, you other shop owners are pretty sensitive!

How do you react when you don't get a job? Do you cry to your mommy?

I am a shop owner and I see what other shop owners do. I know what I'm saying when I call most of them stupid. I never called anyone here stupid so stop copping the attitude, ok?

You know DOC when you quote someone and make a disparaging or insulting comment most people would come to the conclusion that the comment is aimed at the person you quoted. If it was not aimed at that person why quote them?

But at least now I have another adjective to string onto all the others that have been thrown at me; this is the first time anyone has called me sensitive.

You know DOC when you quote someone and make a disparaging or insulting comment most people would come to the conclusion that the comment is aimed at the person you quoted. If it was not aimed at that person why quote them?

But at least now I have another adjective to string onto all the others that have been thrown at me; this is the first time anyone has called me sensitive.

Well since I'm new here I didn't know that you were another owner. I assume you are or you wouldn't have made the comments you made. Is there some way I should have known you were an owner? I took your comment to be made about owners, not by an owner.

I was commenting on what you said. I do that lots of times on other message boards without "aiming" my comments toward the person that wrote them.

Besides, aren't you now glad to know that you have a sensitive side? ;)

Quit your whining and just do the job you were hired to do. When a employe ask for a raise "Cuase I aint had one in 6 months" Time is not the factor for increase in pay. What are you doing for me today that you were not able to do yesterday. I have never had trouble getting paid well. I do my job go the extra mile and help out anyone that has a question I can answer. If you happen to work for a company that is just plain cheap then shut up and quit. There are to many places out there that will treat you fair and pay you well. I have bneen in this bis for 30 years and that is what I know. In those thirty years the guys that whined the most about what they were getting paid were usaully the least productive

Just my opinion, BLUESMAN
I know I know opinions are like ......................................

Quit your whining and just do the job you were hired to do. When a employe ask for a raise "Cuase I aint had one in 6 months" Time is not the factor for increase in pay. What are you doing for me today that you were not able to do yesterday. I have never had trouble getting paid well. I do my job go the extra mile and help out anyone that has a question I can answer. If you happen to work for a company that is just plain cheap then shut up and quit. There are to many places out there that will treat you fair and pay you well. I have bneen in this bis for 30 years and that is what I know. In those thirty years the guys that whined the most about what they were getting paid were usaully the least productive

Just my opinion, BLUESMAN
I know I know opinions are like ......................................

From my employee days, I remember the guys that whined the most were the ones who never had enough guts to even apply for another job. :)

I agree fully with "Bluesman" just quit yer whinni'n and do your job...but I would like to put a little perspective in this discussion:We sold the business and built a new home ( my wifes "dream" home in a remote , beautiful area of Southeast Ariz.)for retirement, and needed some trenching/rockspreading /work that could be done with a skid steer or maybe a small grade tractor. There was a local guy doing some skid steer work down the street so I went and asked him some questions and noticed the skid steer was really pretty old and wore out. Seemed like a pretty good ole boy, and he told me the "steer was 11 years old, his dad purchased at an auction 9 years ago for $7100.00, they did a little maintenance ,tires being the biggest expense over the last 9 years.
His hourley rate ? $ 65.00/ hr, portal to portal ! And he had 90 days of work booked. I estimated with the old 3/4 ton truck,trailer, skid steer and rakes and shovels, there was an investment of maybe $15,000.00(high estm.)
The comparison ? I have friends that have multi $$$ CNC machines, pay their help good $, and struggle to get $65.00 to 75.00 an hour.
I sure do not begrudge the fella with the skid steer, seemed like he had a good work ethic etc etc, but I know a lot of shop owners that are doing 14-16 hr days, 6 and 7 days a week just to keep ahead of the "payments".They have help that are educated, know their job (some are just fantastic operators/real good machinests and understand all aspects of the trade) and still have trouble putting money in the bank for their family.
Something wrong here ? You bet.....just don't know what the answer is.
I just hope we are not leaving our Grandchildren a bigger mess..

Adobe (old as dirt )

I agree fully with "Bluesman" just quit yer whinni'n and do your job...but I would like to put a little perspective in this discussion:We sold the business and built a new home ( my wifes "dream" home in a remote , beautiful area of Southeast Ariz.)for retirement, and needed some trenching/rockspreading /work that could be done with a skid steer or maybe a small grade tractor. There was a local guy doing some skid steer work down the street so I went and asked him some questions and noticed the skid steer was really pretty old and wore out. Seemed like a pretty good ole boy, and he told me the "steer was 11 years old, his dad purchased at an auction 9 years ago for $7100.00, they did a little maintenance ,tires being the biggest expense over the last 9 years.
His hourley rate ? $ 65.00/ hr, portal to portal ! And he had 90 days of work booked. I estimated with the old 3/4 ton truck,trailer, skid steer and rakes and shovels, there was an investment of maybe $15,000.00(high estm.)
The comparison ? I have friends that have multi $$$ CNC machines, pay their help good $, and struggle to get $65.00 to 75.00 an hour.
I sure do not begrudge the fella with the skid steer, seemed like he had a good work ethic etc etc, but I know a lot of shop owners that are doing 14-16 hr days, 6 and 7 days a week just to keep ahead of the "payments".They have help that are educated, know their job (some are just fantastic operators/real good machinests and understand all aspects of the trade) and still have trouble putting money in the bank for their family.
Something wrong here ? You bet.....just don't know what the answer is.
I just hope we are not leaving our Grandchildren a bigger mess..

Adobe (old as dirt )


Well, it's because we price parts too low. We keep fighting against each other for business and we all end up working longer hours just to make ends meet. I can't even charge $40/hr with my customer base! One of my competitors recently purchased a few new machines, lowered his prices even more, and takes almost all the work one of my customers has to offer. Now, he's late, his parts aren't even deburred, but he still keeps getting the biz because he's the cheapest. Companies around here don't seem to care about quality or delivery, only price. I'm seriously considering approaching some companies in higher paying markets to get some good paying work. Of course, I wouldn't have to if my competition hadn't so devalued what us machine shops do.

Halfnutz: Sorry to hear of your problems with previous employers..Your statement about the boss not letting you get a hernia fixed on Wkms Comp?

I was under the impression all employers are responsible to have Wkms Comp..........
Adobe (old as dirt )

Yes, I could have absolutely had the thing fixed through Workmens Comp., but because the guy was somewhat of a friend (I thought), I conferred with him first and he remarked that I couldnt prove it had happened at his company and that he would "fight" me over it.

At the time (especially after that conversation) I was sick of working for him (three years is enough at any place for me) and I knew of another company that had allready made me an offer of employment for the same pay, but with insurance included at the start of employment, so rather than fight with the guy I just quit and had the thing fixed through insurance a couple of months later.

I had been working for over a year at that point with a hernia and it was getting worse everyday. I dont know what was going on in his swelled up head, I geusse he wanted me to beg him or something or take a pay cut and let him pay for it (thats what he had done for some other guy that got hurt at work) so his W.C. rates wouldn't be affected. I dont know and didn't really care because I had been talking to this other company and had another option.

He's an OK guy, I dont have any animosity towards him, he wanted to play the big boss and have me grovel and it didn't work so he got all jacked up over it. We see each other occasionally and laugh about it now, but at the time it wasn't funny.

At the time (especially after that conversation) I was sick of working for him (three years is enough at any place for me) and I knew of another company that had allready made me an offer of employment for the same pay, but with insurance included at the start of employment, so rather than fight with the guy I just quit and had the thing fixed through insurance a couple of months later.
I take it from his reaction that he missed you when you were gone?

I take it from his reaction that he missed you when you were gone?

Well, I'm sure he did, not because I'm anything special, but just the fact that I was reliable and knew the ropes meant that for every hour I worked it put money in his pocket, and he lost that income.

At some point, after telling the guy I had an injury and it was getting worse and had to get it taken care of for 2-3 months prior to that last time, it became clear to me that he didn't give a damn about me. I had even told him about the other offer and that if he didn't back me up I was going to leave, so it wasn't as if I just walked in one day and quit.

I can't imagine what he was thinking, by then I didn't care, but it was a shock to me to see how upset he got over me quitting. He really did come to my new job and threaten me.

It reminded me of that nut that beat his sons little league coach to death.

Take some advice from and old man who has been both a shop owner ( 35 years) and an employee..Do not , under any circumstances, give up your right to Workmans Comp..If your hurt at work, report it NOW,if some one tries to "talk you out of it " call the Industrial Commission immediatly.
No shop owners insurance will go up that much, unless there are multible instances ( that indicates UNSAFE CONDITIONS).
I have had employees hurt at work, not report it, then 2--3 weeks later end up in the hosbital ..What a mess that turns out to be. Remember, the Insurance carrier is YOUR ENEMY..They will and do use every trick in the book not to pay..But if you follow procedure and report an accident NOW, you will be covered.
I paid workmans compensation gladley...There was no better protection for my crew than this insurance..If your employer is skating and not paying workmans comp ( illegal in most states)leave now...anything can happen in a shop, anything ...and it will..
Know of a shop that a machinest put an eight, foot 3 inch round stock in through the back of the lathe with no support. The machinest who proceeded him on the machine had the machine spndle set on the highest RPM as he was polishing (2500 rpm) dummy 1 did not check the spindle and turned it on.The solid round stock bent like 90 degree with so much force it lifted the lathe ( a big 19 X 80 ) up off the floor and travled 2 feet. Dummy 1 did not get hurt, but an innocent machinest working a mill 15-20 feet away got a piece of concrete driven into his neck and back, is now ( as far as I know ) a quadraplegic.Because the shop owner ( a real good friend, he helped with my BAH race boat) had workmans comp, he did not lose his business, but most important the fellow who was hurt has the best medical care and an income for life .
Work with out Workmans Comp ? Never. Accidents WILL happen.

Adobe (old as dirt )

Wow. As a future self employeed shop owner (Touch wood), who may even have a couple of employees eventually, this was a really interesting thread. I guess you just decide which road to go down.....the screw your employees and probably not last for long, or look out for your employees and still maybe dont last for long! I guess business is dog eat dog, and since it won't make much differance either way, might as well treat the employees well.

Wow. As a future self employeed shop owner (Touch wood), who may even have a couple of employees eventually, this was a really interesting thread. I guess you just decide which road to go down.....the screw your employees and probably not last for long, or look out for your employees and still maybe dont last for long! I guess business is dog eat dog, and since it won't make much differance either way, might as well treat the employees well.

Integrity's true value is to the possesor perhaps.

lol, it is all to the same these days.....I have bounced 3 times in the last two years....at 25 I must say that I am comfortable with my wage and my employer.....I think the problem with our industry and trade is that we are smart people working in a vastly stupid industry...it sux because more often then not your boss doesnt even know what the hell your talking about and automatically assumes you are bull****ting.....i think it is the same everywhere...eventually you jump to a salary that you dont let it bother you...

I gotta agree with the whiners do the least.
I can't help but laugh because i am reminded of a couple of people at work.
They are always complaining that they are doing all the work and everyone else is lazy.
I can't even tell you what they actually do because most of their time is spent complaining.
Since i have become maintenance and also know how to program,setup,and operate CNCs,(according to the complainers),the job requirements of being maintenance have really increased to include fixing their setups.....you know...because they do all the work and i do nothing.
I have come to the conclusion that they are too busy to do anything.

It's always interesting to be on both sides of the fence. When I had my business I always had a meeting with my employees, once a month, every other month depending on business. I would discuss with them the work the bid and the cost of doing business. Never had anyone pissed off or quit! That open door approach seems to work all the time. Yea Walt and Adobe!!!

I look at it this way for my raises. When I started I was fresh out of votech with no experience. I started at $8.50 an hour and after my 90 days was suppose to go up to $9 I then got layed off shortly before my 90 and went on to college to pursue further academics. My college career did not pan out at all and I ended up in a tool and die shop as a trainee. I constantly improved and was rewarded with a nice pay raise when I finally was able to run solo as part of a powdered metal tooling support staff. I simply just continued to show that I was able to improve my abilities to show management that I was making them more and more money. With each step I took further the better I was rewarded. I find that its simple economics the more you bring in profit the more you are worth. Obviously in a small shop it does become at times a hardship to be able to give out raises but for most of the guys I work with who take the I make a decent paycheck so why strain myself would be a good reason for them to get mediocre raises and trust me I have heard that that is what they get. Of course there is a certain level you reach in ability but you have to realize that your pay does top out. In our shop the only way to break the top out is to become multitalented. In our shop we have that option to be top notch in EDM, grinding, cnc lathe and mill, cylindrical grinding, polishing, programing and a few others. The more people you can theoretically cover their work the more you are worth especially in a small shop. If its a slow little shop being able to do ALL the work instead of a little niche will make your raises just a little more honorable. Adobe Machine does hit on a nice point, but if you decrease the guys because you have wider skilled talent you can keep your employees happy with nice raises, but if work load greatly fluctuates then so will how often and how nice your raises will be. If you nail the right job with the right company and right stability like I stumbled upon raises are equal to how much you give to the company.