Hello Everyone:wave:

I'm new here, but not so new to metal working...Well kinda. I'm 18 and have my own Paintball Company. A brief Bio of what I do: I work on paintball markers and milling is involved, small amounts of milling. What I mainly do now requires a TWO-Step process of simple flat milling and then drilling at an Angal. I orginally set-up a small drill press with a small x and y table to do this work, though it worked it had vibration and took very long to re-adjust everything on the drill press. Luckly my girlfriends father is a Machinist, so he gets me some nice tools, bits, and other things.


However, I have recently left the Drill Press as that, and is now stationed to drill the Angal cuts I need without any adjustments.

What I need is to upgrade my milling machine! Badly...I have a few ideas.


There is this large Craftsman Drill Press: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@0552035612.1157258301@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccjjaddijlfigffcefecemldffidflk.0&fromAuto=YES&pid=00922901000&bidsite=CRAFT&vertical=TOOL&ihtoken=1
It actually has some nice features, a little lamp, lazer guids, rotating table. Now I feel that this would fit and work great with a nice X and Y axis table. I saw the Machine today in Person, it's big and seems sturdy.

Do I go ahead with this...? Or do I purchase something more along the lines of this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991

For about the same Price, I can make one or buy an actual one.


Maybe later on, I hope to convert to CNC. But I can also do that with the Drill Press. I really need help here badly, can someone help me?

Just the usuall milling I do:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a96/SpeedsCustom/Othereye.jpg

I want my company to be more professional and my work better quality. Because after all, a Drill Press + a Table=Mini Mill.

Thanks,


-Jason

Greetings Jason:

Recommend you search rec.crafts.metalworking for 'drill press mill'. You will get a bunch of information that will guide your choices.

Details:
Go to www.google.com, select 'groups' feature. Type in rec.crafts.metalworking. You will see a list of that newsgroups latest messages. You will notice a feature near the top left of the screen that allows you to search that newsgroup. Search for drill press mill. Happy reading.

Drill presses are not designed for side loads that are encountered in milling. Also, drill press chucks are often fit to tapers; can come loose from spindle with side loads. The solution for this is a drawbar that fastens the tool to the spindle.

The photo you posted suggests small diameter pocket milling. You could make that pocket in one pass by sinking the appropiate diameter endmill to the desired depth. You would end up with a round flat bottomed pocket. This can be done with a drill press, but beware the limitations of a chuck mounted to a taper, as noted above, however in this case the endmill would tend to self-feed into the work, pulling the chuck from the taper.

Regards, Jim Brown

[QUOTE=SpeedsCustom;193436Because after all, a Drill Press + a Table=Mini Mill.
[/QUOTE]


Jason, sorry.. A drill press + table = drill press that you can more easily position you work.

As Jim mentions above drill presses are not designed to handle the side loads and most likely you will vibrate the chuck from the quill and create a big mess. Can you get by? possibly, but if you want your company to be more professional and better quality, you will need a mill.

You can drill with a mill

but

you can NOT mill with a drill.

EIther buy a GOOD table top non-round column mill/drill (closest approximation to a mill you can find) or else spring for a Bridgeport clone.

BTW, once you start using a mill, you'll hardly EVER go back to using a drill press. Been there, done that, will NOT go back.....

HINT: the next time you post, chose to alight your post to the left margin as opposed to using the "center alignment'. Your post was a real pain to read...

Alright guys, I mean, I new the mill was what was needed.


But do you think the Harbor Freight is good for what I do?


Thanks for the help.



-Jason

Greetings Jason:

Just guesstimating from your photo, that little HF mill will do what you need. Check out www.littlemachineshop.com for a bunch of info about those mills. They usually need complete disassembly and cleanup to remove the shipping preservative grease, dirt, and grit from manufacturing. Check out the work envelope, that is, the size of work that the mill can handle. Your work will have to fit in that space. The mills will take light passes in aluminum and plastic, but lack rigidity, spindle speed range, and power of more massive mills that can handle steels. Try to examine the actual machine you will buy. There is a lot of variability in quality and accuracy among these machines, so in general, they are considered a machine tool 'kit'. If you want higher quality, look at Sherline, Taig, and several others. Consider that tooling (vices, setup, measuring, cutting) will set you back several times the amount you spend on the mill. Look for an adult extension school where you can take a metalworking class if available. Sometimes have some big nice machines to work with for not a whole lot of tuition, and usually an experienced machinist instructor. That will give you some machine time to see what your needs are. There are also many hobby metalworking clubs that make everything from steam engines, model rockets, trains, etc. Maybe go to one of their meetings if there's one nearby, state your goals, and scrounge some invites from members to see their shop setups. Take a look at bigger machines that even used, might pay same for a whole lot more capability that retains enough accuracy to meet your needs. It doesn't take much to cumulatively spend as much fixing up a new chinese machine to equal the acquisition of a used but much higher quality machine. Anyway, there's some random thoughts, good luck with your business.

Regards, Jim Brown

If your lookin at a small mill check this one out, this was what i was going to buy before I built my own. Same price , http://www.emachinetool.com/new/catalog/vertical.cfm?DestinationCategory=Mini%20%26%20CNC%20Vertical%20%20Mill&ProductID=953#Delivery
Precise Series 9500 Mini Vertical Mill - emachinetool.com

I'd suggest Grizzly.

I have one of their lathes (#4002) for the shop and a floor type mill drill at home - a colleague has a table top mill drill. The floor type mill is hardly used since the shop got going and we use the lathe regularly

The PRIME reason for Grizzly: parts service. I called and needed some wierd parts because of a dumb-out by a worker bee and they had it. No screwing around. It was here in 3-4 days.

I called Harbor for some service parts and got a runaround.

If you're in the business of making/modifying paintball guns, you're competing against guys who make the guns with hard core CNC's. Do you think you can compete with that sort of horsepower with a modified drill press???

A mill can be looked at several ways. If you buy a Bridgeport, you can ALWAYS sell it as the market for them ALWAYS seems to exist. If you buy an import, especially a table top, you might as well consider it a throw away piece.

Yes, there is residual value in it but it won't hold like that of a Bridgeport. Essentially, you can buy a used Bridgeport or an Excello mill for $2K-$4K depending on condition and "patina". Even if you fix it up a bit, you can get your money out of it even after 4-5 years of use - as long as you don't trash it.

Even if you buy an import clone mill new, you'll lose a TON of value as soon as you take posession. Can't say that for the BPT or the Excellos that may be out there.

Simply put, buy the best you can't afford, you won't be disappointed.

See ZipSnipe's post? What do you think of a mill like that? Compared to the Grizzly.

See, I know paintball and the paintball buisness like no one else, the work I do is specific and only for a certain gun, I could handle the work on my drill/mill i converted. So just stepping it up a notch to a real mini mill would be much better for me. I don't make bodies, I customize and thats what i do.

So these small mills are perfect for me, later on, I can convert to CNC if I wanted, can I not?


-Jason

I believe its made by the same company that makes the mini mill, for some reason the Chinese always make a better looking machine for the Euro countries than what than what they make for us.

I have the HF micro mill and while it's small you can do a lot of work on it.
For under $500 you can be set up with the mill, small vise, collets, endmills, and a couple of measuring tools.
You will need to do a little bit of cleanup on the mill as they are delivered in workable but rough condition. A little work with files and sandpaper makes a big difference.

Aaron

Pastera, thanks very much.


I want to let everyone know that about 5 months ago, after helping my Grandmother move from Brooklyn to New Jersey. She showed me her fathers parts and such. To my amazement, many milling tools were found, mearuing devices etc. Today I found some couplets.

Also, my Girlfriend's father is a machinist who helps get me parts, but can also lead me to the right direction. I'm very good with my hands and very smart when it comes to building, designing, etc...


So fixing up the mill should be no problem, what so ever. As long as I know where to work it can be done.


If I choose a mill I think it may be the Grizzly, only because of the customer service.


-Jason

Hi all, I see by some of the replies that there is an interest in constructing a small vertical mill using a bench drill. If you're fortunate enough to have a spindle that has a morse taper, then strip the spindle out and drill through the splined shaft to enable a draw-bar to be fitted. This needs to be done in the lathe with a steady and an extension drill bit from both ends.
With a 1/4" diam. drawbar you'll be able to hold a 3 MT shank in, as the morse taper will lock in and the draw-bar only prevents it from getting loose and walking out. I modified a 1/2" Atlas bench drill press like this.
The other problem is that the bearings are only suitable for axiall loads and wont handle radial loads very well. To overcome this a housing is shrunk onto the end of the quill housing, and bored out to take a pair of angular contact bearings in back to back configuration.
The top spindle bearing can be retained as it just locates the shaft in the quill. A carefull bit of measuring and research will enable it to be done. This is how I made a small home built mill to do some steam engine work. The X Y slides were built using an old lathe saddle turned upside down and clamped onto the base by the compound slide. One of the big problems even with the proper mill/drills is rigidity. It helps to attach a brace to stop the head from flexing due to the round vertical column. All a bit "Heath Robinson" but it works.