I bought this Pratt Whitney Type C Tool room lathe in the early 70's at a US Government auction.The lathe had never been used, had no tooling, chuck, motor or belts, but was damaged as the shipping pallet had wasted away and broken or bent all the controls in front. At the time I was going to college on the GI bill,working full time at a machine shop and raising a growing family.Having neither the time or resources to equip or repair it, sat for another 4-5 years. In fact I almost went broke paying for transport to my garage, as this "little" 12X30 lathe is 3200 lbs !

Sometime after graduation, suffering through my 1st layoff in the GREAT Aerospace industry, I did repair the broken handles,clean,install a 10hp, 2 speed motor and belts and started doing prototype work, sub contract and small lot pieces. We quickley found out that this is a very accurate, smooth lathe, with a very good finish capability.My customers were happy.

We have kept good care of the lathe over the years, I did not allow any other employees to operate, never used a tool post grinder on it, did only prototype or small pieces. Got tired of the horrible Government green paint and refinished with a 2 part epoxy Grey in the 80's..have touched it up, but the paint is still holding up.

I believe the machine was manufactured in the mid 1950's as one thing that I got with the lathe is an updated wiring diagram dated 1952 ( The paper is parchment, really old) The auction reciept did not list a year, only model and ser.#. Wow that makes it 50 yrs old or so..!

The gearedhead has 32 speeds ( with the 2 speed motor) has its own oil filter and oil pump. I did have Caterpiller ( Empire Machinery,Phoenix ) do an oil analysis on the gearhead oil...came out real good.. no metal, bronze, chrome or other suspect metals in any excess amounts .

The decision to retrofit to CNC was easy.Due to an accident I'm in a wheel chair and cannot stand in front of a lathe very long to build goodies (blower systems, pulleys, contours, threading etc) very long. I have a good Le Blond 17X60 manual lathe if needed, in fact will be used to build parts for the Pratt Whitney.

Getting with the program to retrofit:
1)Clean up and spot paint the old girl
2)Remove the apron drive shaft,threading feed rod compound acme screwand nut, along with the taper attachment.

Here are the items purchased and delivered so far. Machine Tool camp servos with US Digital encoders, ( 672 oz/inch) Desk CNC Motion Control Card and their Software,encoder cables with a US digital encoder for the spindle RPM.I chose Machine Tool Camp as I used their program for my 3 axis Tree Mill retrofit,have had NO problems, and Scott's help in the electronics and software was invaluable. I'm also using Vector 3d CAD/CAM from IM Service that matches Desk CNC, and I have become comfortable with the system, even being a complete computor KLUTZ.Fred Smith and Jackies help have kept me sane learing the system.
Rockford rolled Ballscrews and double nuts were my choice for both axis, will machine the ends myself on my manual Le Blond lathe.Taking my own advice, I also purchased the Fixed angular bearing mount for both the Z and X axis, will use one simple bearing mount for the Z axis, but made the mount for the X axis.
I made the large timing pullys ( 72 teeth) out of 6061 Alum and had them hard anodized, bought the 10 teeth smaller ones which will give me a 7.2 to 1 ratio..the servos are rated @ 4200 rpm, but will reduce to 3500 rpm. This gives a final G00 rapid of 90ipm with the 5tpi ballscrews, which is a lot faster than I can think at this age.(actually that means the entire Z axis transverses in less than 30 seconds) Misc electronics will include 2 electronic relays to control coolant and a four position tool changer that is in "design" stage..for now my goal is to construct the 2 axis,with no backlash or problems and use the lathe in CNC untill I'm comfortable .Then possibly a 3rd axis and tool changer.
Not pictured is the 12 amp 70 volt power supply ( Machine Tool Camp) and the electronics cabnet and misc wiiring and electronics.
Building the front x axis simple bearing mount:
1st picture. Using my PowerMatic Verticle automatic band saw to cut the 6061 t-6 material. ( If I concentrate this saw will cut accuratley to .030-.050 and saves a lot of machine time..)Then using my Retrofited 3 axis Tree Mill to "square "the part and machining the male and female bosses . The bearing fit is tight slip fit ( used oil and both thumbs to push in ). Also the 4 mount holes and counter sink.
You will notice the mounted manual oil ( way) pump. I drilled and tapped fittings for the Z axis carriage,and the compound slide,in addition both Ball nuts will be lubricated by this system.
Next will be the rear bearing ( fixed angular ) mount.

Here are the rest of the pictures for the front x axis bearing mount

Machining and assembly of the rear X axis fixed angular bearing mount.
The real problem here is to establish a true center line of the compound ball shaft both vertical and horizontal. There is a machined hole that had located the rear compound bearing for the acme rod, and also located the the taper attachment. The center line of that machined hole will be the center line of the ball screw. I turned a "plug" that fit in the hole, (1.125), then cut, surfaced , drilled the 4 mount holes and counter sunk for allen bolts on the spacer block.
Mounting the spacer block on the lathe, I used my depth mic from the top of the bearing block ( machined) to the top of the compound ways ( machined) then to the top of the plug I just made, added that together plus the radius of the plug and I should have centerpoint ( should) I measured three times and had a friend of mine who is a very good machinest come over to the house/shop with his depth gauge and his answer was withen .0003 of mine.
This gave me the depth for the fixed angular bearing mount, the center of the bearing block is the center of the bolt pattern(horizantaly)
Using Vector Cad Cam made a short pocket program, but added .015 to the width of the pocket for a little "fudge factor". and also drilled the 4 holes (oversize by .020) for the bearing mount.When I know everything is in good alingment,then I will install 3/16 locating pins on both the spacer block and the fixed angular bearing mount and correctly torque all of the fastners.
The reason I left some fudge factor is due to "stack of tolerance",which believe me ,has gotten me in trouble before.( I.E. assuming everything was perfect and would fit just right )I'm not discounting that we may have to use shims, or surface the fixed angular bearing mount.
Next will be the mount for the double ball nut on the compound, then to machining the ball screw and a very small knurled "positioning" knob on the front of the machine for the X axis.

Adobe ( old as dirt)

Nice. Do I see the leightweight pulley on picture #1? Big reduction?

yes ,but the belt is not the correcrt one..also you can see the tensioners, as I use two per belt to tension and to keep the correct "wrap" on the small pully. By the way how is your conversion going ?any pictures yet ?

Adobe (old as dirt )

Where did I say I was doing a conversion? I already did a CNC mill and software with a friend in 1986. I can only be accused of updating. But my main fixation at the moment is threading.

yes the software I have does have a threading program, all you do is fill in the length etc, and immediatly the G code is written.This covers metric, us and if you need an odd ball ( like .472X 32) you can build that type also.
O, and sorry I thought you were building a cnc lathe.

Adobe (old as dirt )

I worked on a CNC lathe. Threading was just fantastic at 800-1000rpm, it is the big difference. I also did worms with circular intrapolated starting points. But, what is the reason for the big reduction?

Its just 7.2:1. This also helps increase torque, which I need as the spindle is limited to 2000 rpm .At axis servo speed of 3500 rpm, this calculates to 90 IPM. The total Z travel is only 30 inches, so it could go from Z 30 to Z0 in 20 seconds which to me, is just real fast. Any higher ratio,it would gain speed and lower torque. Also, if I do not like the axis performance,it is not much of a job to make another pully. Thanks for your reply

Adobe (old as dirt )

Adobe Machine,

I noticed that your new thread here is posted in the "Test Forum".

You might want to move to a more specific catagory. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that all the post in the "Test Forum" are deleted after a short period of time.

Jerry




.

er, your right.how do you switch to another forum ? and thanks.


Adobe (old as dirt)

Wow, Nice machine Adobe. Warms the heart to see one of these beasts find a caring home :)

er, your right.how do you switch to another forum ? and thanks.


Adobe (old as dirt)

You could just start a new thread in a more specific catagory, then copy and paste what you have here into the new thread.

Or, maybe ask a Moderator to move the entire thread for you?

Jerry



.

A note on the small pulley: for the inch timing belts, the factory recommends that there are at least 6 tooth in contact with the pulley. I cite: "Befinden sich 6 oder mehr zahne in eingriff, so ubertrifft die festigkeit der zahne normalerweise die festigkeit der zugkorper"(catalog Uniroyal). Translated: If there are 6 or more tooth in contact, then the total rip force of the tooth is greater than the ripforce of the belt. I have never seen this recommendation again, but I think it is a sound advice. It is imaginable that under load you introduce flex, through overloading off the (few) tooth. Theoretically I would say, that you lose precision with a small pulley.

RotarySMP, thanks, that lathe has been good to me, might be the oldest CNC lathe around when I'm finished.

Fka.Carel Yes, you are correct.Before my "enforced" retirement (wreck) we designed and manufactured specialty Asphalt machinery, and in the last 6 years began using large timing belts (in place of chains)in certain situations.
The belt supplier always recomended a 50% or better wrap.Because of space constraints and ratios we had to use 2 tensioners ( or 1 idler and 1 tensioner) to acheive the correct wrap. My initial design will use one idler and 1 tensioner placed so that the small pully will get at least 50% engagement.
But, if I do not like the design then can be changed quickly. ( thats what nice about being retired, nothing has to happen quickly)

Would also like to point out that the timing belts held up 3-5 times longer than chains, as they withstood shock better. ( Actually we called them Gilmer belts )I have seen some German asphalt machines that also used Gilmers( in situations where they were not exposed to heat or hot asphalt)
and they used the 50% warp too.

Adobe ( old as dirt )

Beautiful machine and a good looking conversion...One question...What are the "T" slots down the side of the way for? I think it's in picture No3 on your original post. :beer:

Those " T " slots were machined at manufacture for the Taper attachment.
I checked them for parallel to the Z axis ways and they are spot on. They are an odd ball size so I made 4 "T" nuts( 4 came off the machine ) and they will support the bearing blocks for the Z axis ball screw.Pretty handy ,huh.
Thanks for the comment.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Machining the X axis ball nut carrier: There is not a lot of room under the carriage cross slide to install a carrier for the double nut, and there is the alingment problem too. After removal of the old acme screw nut ( and what an engineering marvel that is ,will explain in next post ) I copied the gross deminsions. I cut a square of 6061-t6,& squared up in the mill . Using Vector CAD / CAM drew the boss and placed the mount holes as per the old acme nut, plus drilled and tapped 3/8 -16 hole in the center of the boss, also milled some 3/8 grooves on the bottom for clearence, then milled an .800 hole thru the carrier for ball screw clearence.

I will not actually assemble the carrier to the carriage untill the ball screw has been machined..I have to assemble the ball nuts to the screw "in place" then assemble the rear fixed angular bearing mount to the machine bring the ballnut flange up to the the carrier just made, mark the holes, ( everything

tight, carriage in place and gibb correctly adjusted) pull it back apart , drill and tap 1/4-20 ( the flange holes will be sized to .266 for fudge factor again)
this will also be pinned with a 3/16 steel pin when everthing works smooth.( I have no doubt that will take time and be a little frustrating)

1st picture : the squared and flat piece in the mill and milling the boss circle.
2nd picture: the completed part with fastners
3rd picture: showing the double ball nut and the new carrier
4th picture: fit to crossslide ( off the machine )

next post will explain the very innovative acme screw not for the cross slide.

Adobe ( old as dirt )

The old adjustable acme nut for the X axis: I understand that Pratt-Whitney developed and patented this " adjustable " acme nut for the cross slide in 1942 ! Over the years I have adjusted a few times, and can get almost zero backlash with out getting so tight the cross slide is hard to turn in and out. Why I'm showing this is our fathers ( grandfathers ?) were pretty darned innovative when it came to machine tools, and could even then make tools that were accurate ( a manual lathe is only as accurate as the operator)With some dial indicators on the Z and X axis, they could hold tenths all day..

Picture 1 old acme nut and the split half, my new carrier for a ball nut.

picture 2 the old nut assembled: the small half of the nut had threads machined in its outer diameter, as you can see by tighting one allen bolt and loosening the other, it brought the acme threads in opposition, just like we do with a double ball nut.. pretty good for 60 or so years ago ( and they used good material, I can see no actual wear in the nut !)

adobe

Thanks for the forensics. Making a worm gear with screws. It's a good idea, but as there are norms for threads and norms for gears, It would'nt pass nowadays. And looking again, it is a bit vulnerable. I can think of a number of people I know, that would unthread/unworm it just by being near.

Next step is turning the ends of the X axis ball screw.I have done a few of these and before you could buy just any acme screw, had to make a few of those also. I learned ( right or wrong) to make a soft jaw for the lathe chuck to center the ball screw in the chuck. This method also gives a good grip on the very hard ball screw. One of the more imortant things is to keep the ball screw and cutting tools cool. Even with carbide tooling and a rigid set up, lack of coolant, to much rpm or too aggresive of a cut will kill the tooling in a hurry, then that begins pushing the ballscrew away from the tooling , which makes a funny looking shaft.(done a couple of those )

I start by cutting the ball screw with a cut off saw and lots of water, this is high carbon steel,if you get the end you are cutting hot,it brings the carbon to the surface, making it difficult to use tooling for drilling a center for the live center.

Next step is make the soft jaw, used some scrap 6061 t-6 round stock, bored to .631 ( actual advertised major diameter ), then turned the O.D., that is pictures # 1 and 2.

Taking the piece to the verticle saw I find center and mark, align square and cut the jaw down the center. (pictures 3 and 4 ) not shown is cutting the jaw off the round stock.

pictures 5 and 6 show turning the ball screw after alingment in the chuck, drilling a center hole for the live center. Again,its slow .136 rpm ,chuck and .05 doc with lots of coolant.

I'm turning the simple end now and must get the the screw to .495 for 5.6 inches from the start, as the apron has a bored hole of .5 of 3.1" long.The simple end bearing has a bore of .4725, will turn that area to .4723 as i want a slip fit only.The rest of the simple turned end is for a small ,knurled knob, 1/8th key and a 7/16 nut.

Unfortunatley, if it was not for medical appointments I could get something done,but the rest of this week is toast for playing in the shop as I gotta go to the VA and sit around and grumble with the rest of the vets. Good care, just long lines..


Adobe (old as dirt)

here are the pictures

more pictures

great work adobe! nothing like those action shots :)

1st I wish to thank the staff at CNC Zone ffor un-screwing my screw up in starting this on the wrong forumn Thank you

Trapper 14, tis for the kind words..note I have tried to access your new lathe page as listed above a few times..I keep getting a message tht it is overloaded..is there another way to access..I'm sure all of us would like to see your new lathe..can you post the pics here ?

Adobe (old as dirt )

Those " T " slots were machined at manufacture for the Taper attachment.
I checked them for parallel to the Z axis ways and they are spot on. They are an odd ball size so I made 4 "T" nuts( 4 came off the machine ) and they will support the bearing blocks for the Z axis ball screw.Pretty handy ,huh.
Thanks for the comment.

Adobe (old as dirt)Thanks for that and I like the email notifications for this thread :) Keep going and never stop Sir :tiphat:

Finished the X axis ball screw end,front and did a test fit.Had to nudge the shaft in the bearing using the palm of my hand.Possibly should have used some 120 grit crocus cloth while in the lathe at high speed to polish a little more, as I wanted a loose slip fit. Pulled it out , no marks on the shaft so I recleaned the shaft and bearing I.D., oiled the shaft and it seemed to slide in easier. Gonna leave it alone.

Got tired of cutting the hard steel,its slow and gets boring,besides spending 3 days at the V.A. hosbital getting poked, punched and supplying blood, I wanted to have a little fun. Decided to make the Manuel X feed handle
( used only to position with the servos "off").

The handle's main diameter is 1.5", but there are two more steps, one at 1.3" and the last one at .8 inches. As you can see I knurled the main diameter with a small diamond pattern knurl.

1st picture is my "other lathe",a 17"x60" Le Blond Regal, purchased at auction in posssibly 1986-87.The lathe was used then, but in reasonable shape.Lots of my emloyees have operated ( and hurt ) this lathe, but it did a good job untill we began going to cnc in the mid 90's,as a lot of our work was big shafts for minning and construction equipment. The company who bought me out was not intrested in any manual equipment, so I got to keep this lathe also. The lathe gives a nice finish, and I can hold decent tolerances as long as I use dial indicators and take my time.When I get close on the O.D.,just switch to tenths indicators. Will be glad when the Pratt Whitney is CNC'd and operating!
Picture 2, taking a .250 cut off some scrap 6061 T-6 round stock
Picture 3, final cut on the major O.D.
Picture 4, shows the 3 steps finished
Picture 5, knurling the major diameter ( Yes, for those who know, that is a knurling bar for one of the turning centers sold with the business.it had a damaged shaft, I repaired and made a sleeve to fit in my tool holder, works excellent, minimal cost.(Just could never throw any thing away ! )
picture 6-7 shows the knob finished and installed. I think it is small enough and will not get in the way...Have had handles etc grab my apron just a couple of times.
The Z axis position handle will stay, it is clutched, to disengage, you only have to pull out the small knob in the middle.

Next is the very criticle rear fixed bearing X axis turn on the new ball screw, the tolerances on this is measured in tenths, and this ball screw did not get much softer even after I was under the lead portion, so it will be a slow go tomorrow.

Adobe (old as dirt)

A question for the experts:I'm a bit of a KLUTZ with a computor..( well really a BIG Klutz)..I had to hire a next door neighbor to help me set up a net work so that I could use the CAD in my home office and send the CAM G code to the shop and my retro fitted Tree Mill.We were unable to get it to work correctly as WiFi, ( 4 different wireless routers etc )and then just did a hard wire through the ceiling, has worked great, never lost a program. We think that the problem is the house and shop have a steel roof ( fire protection, live in a heavly forested area.idiots and lightning start lots of fires in this state)
Any way my neighbor built a computor for the Tree machine and used Win 2000 XT, as he said its a stable program.Have had no problems and use the Mill every day,my longest program being over 21,000 lines with no faults.There are no other programs installed on this machine except Desk CNC and Vector CAD /CAM from IM Service.Some how he has it programmed so that everything is turned off when Desk CNC is running,so there are no pop ups or updates etc, while running the mill.
Now I have a new laptop that my children got me for fathers day with xp etc, I wanted to use it to run the lathe I'm converting, but have seen several comments in the CNC Zone to the effect that may be this is not the best thing to do ? Will use the same combo of Desk CNC and Vector, but even my neighbor is unsure about using with XP, says he can install the same 2000 xp,which is fine .The lap top came with a lot of programs I will never use.
Just what are your recomendations? Use the Lap Top as is ? Convert to Win 2000 ? Just install extension and use the mills computor ? Neighbor said we will have to seperate (partition? ) the two Desk CNC programs, as there are different values for the machines, and do not want one program to overwrite the other.? What would you do ?
Really appreciate the advice and help !

Adobe (old as dirt )

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Adobe Machine , nice work

cheers

Machining of the x axis shaft, supported (fixed angular bearing end ), which will also be the driven end.

This was a PITA.. the shaft did not seem to lose any hardness under the "threads", although the threads disappeared at .500 ( see comments below), still seemed as hard as the 1st cut at .631..any way turned the bearing portion to .472-. and 2.35 in length.I tried to fit the fixed bearing pack @ .472 ,but it got real grumply, not what I wanted , so very carefully reduced .0005 and re-tried. I do not like cramming the shaft on angular thrust bearings..should be a gentle slip fit..not loose ..not overly tight.If you expand the inner race at all, they seem to quickly lose their accuracy...I have in the past machined to recomended specs and ended up having to "push" expensive bearings on shafts (using methods I would rather not discuss in front of NC Cams) and they quickly failed ..Expensive lessons, so I have learned to look at all specs as a starting place..and I measure the bearing I.D. and compare to specs..will admit its better now than 30-40 yrs ago, but still I use a little" Kentucky Windage" and feel to fit.


(comment ) At a measured .502 , I got worried as I began seeing the threads on one side of the shaft still remaining ( like a shadow) and 180 deg on the other side, pure virgin metal.I decided that .002 out of round would be unacceptable on this short of shaft , as it would tend to bind when turning. I assumed the manufacturer ( Rockford) was accurate to tenths on the core of the shaft. so I took a pass of less than .0007 and all the shadow went away, so did not throw the shaft in the waste basket...remains to be seen
if there is any curl or bounce in rotation.

Finished the bearing surface, liked the bearing fit ( just pulled the tail stock back, did not upset the set up.) turned the area to be threaded to .469, then turned the driven pully area to .406 ( more why later).

Threading: The first secret to threading is the math..really simple , but sooo many times I have seen this simple math overlooked, not understood, really f... up, and it usually ruins hours and hours of work on producing a complex shaft ( which this IS NOT).. any way, Rockford Ball Screws reccomends
( and sent a nut and lock washer ) a thread of .469-32..Okay, major diameter is .469, how do we figure pitch diameter and minor diameter ? I go to the little blue book ( Machinery hand book) and have to referance .500-32 as the closest we can get:( page 1649 25th edition)
.500
minus (-) .469
_______
= .031
Subtract .031 from the published Minor diameter (d3) of .500 which is .463
(forget the tenths in minor diameter, round up, its hard to measure, and I will take ten good machinests, measure minor threads and get 10 different answers, same thread) that equals .432 which will give enough room for the proper nut and will take the torque.Pitch diameter listed @.500 is .497, so subtract the .031 and you have .466, that will be about correct after debur..in fact just exactley what it turned out to be as measured .
Threading
Picture 1. Start your cross slide at 29.5 degrees..this is a must and important!
Picture 2. Align the tool post ( and tool holder ) to 90 deg to the Z axis centerliine..I keep it to (+ - 0003 over 2") takes a moment. but is important so that you are not cutting the following thread .
Picture 3 .Since this is a "re-set up" ( removed the shaft from the chuck and fixture) its imperative to check / correct run out. I'm lucky as the chuck is pretty new and tir is almost "0", so little correction is needed.
Picture 4 and 5 . This is the 5th pass, most I could take was about .0010
per pass..stuff is just hard. But with a 32 thread, any 8 numbers on the scale work ! So my job was realitive easy..I did use a dial indicator for exact depth, and one for travel on the Z ..Crank and go !
Picture 6 Threding the nut on after deburr..was not loose, not grumply, I'm buying it.

Last picture. A shot of the ISCAR insert for a 32 external thread..Makes life a lot easier using the right equipment and cutters..you can not duplicate this cut with out the right cutters..really neat under CNC control.

Next: Modification of the X axis ball nut flange, attaching to the already made carrier etc.

Thanks

Adobe (old as dirt )

PS guys still in a quandrey about the computor to use..any help ?

X axis ball nut flange modification: Not much room here, so I took the compleated ball shaft, used recomended torque for the preload on the fixed angular mount bearing, un-loaded the primary ball nut ( at least the one attached to the flange ) and began to modify. I just hate to cut up manufactured items, but could not modify the cross slide, so modified the flange to FIT. You can see in picture 1 , I just drew up the demensions in Vector and cut the ball nut flange to the specs needed to fit. Unloaded, I inserted the ballshaft in position, installed and torqued the angular bearing housing & installed the carrier to the cross slide base.I then loaded the 65 balls into the nut housing and installed the return tube loaded.The cross slide had been tightned so the cross slide would not move real easy, I backed the now loaded ball nut and flange to the cross slide/ball nut carrier to "tight" against each other and marked the 1st fastner with a center punch of the correct size (.266), then got to unload the balls and return tube.( I modified one of my wife's plastic containers and used the lathes casting to support, so all the balls fell into the containers)
Next was to drill and tap the carrier ,1/4-20...cleaned up everything and reassembled, including the ball nut, tightned the one fastner and moved the asembly through the full range of motion..No binding, real smooth..begining to feel a little better..some of the panic is easing as to having turned the shaft off center.. Everything tight, I center punched holes # 2 and 3, ...again unloaded and removed everything..( This is being real difficult in a wheel chair and trying to keep my back upright...this took two days, and some help from my wife..no one got mad !..)
Drilled and tapped the other into the carrier. At this point I realized how important the face to face relationship is on the the carrier and ball nut flange...I had read some comments by Walt @ SGS about ball nut flange to carrier relationship, and how if a little bit off could bind the ball nut...IE screw up the smoothness of the ballshaft/ballnut.I really do not know how to "scrape In" this surface, but figured ( may be wrong !) if both surfaces were flat, would stand a better chance of proper alingment.
So,I coated the 2 surfaces with blueing, heavy , and let dry. Then taped some 600 grit paper to a flat surface and began working the pieces untill all the blueing disappeared...they look flat, and on the granite stone show no light..took some time, hope I did the right thing..
In case there is some binding, I drilled and tapped 4 holes 5/16-18 in the carrier and installed set screws...that way if it is necessary to change any relationship on the ballnut flange/carrier , I can loosen, tighten, fine tune etc ..this may be "overkill"( hope ) as everything so far has indicated that the assembly is dead nuts..but you never know !
Picture 1 &2. Modify of the flange, using my Tree CNC retro fit

Picture 3 . My way of making the flange and carrier flat to each other.

Picture 4. View of empty primary ball nut attached to carrier after lapping.

Picture 5. The fixed angular bearing and fastners, ball nut (preloaded) and carrier assembly, X ball screw shaft and manual X axis knob.

Both the ball nuts must be empty to assemble and then loaded in Situ

Tomorrow...Install and test,

Thanks,

Adobe (old as dirt )

The lap top came with a lot of programs I will never use.


Just uninstall all the junk that shipped with the PC, most of it you dont need.


Just what are your recomendations? Use the Lap Top as is ? Convert to Win 2000 ? Just install extension and use the mills computor ? Neighbor said we will have to seperate (partition? ) the two Desk CNC programs, as there are different values for the machines

This would be the best option, separate the disk into two partitions (use something like partion magic to shrink the current partion) and install a second instance of XP (Use XP, it as stable if not more so than 2000 Pro) that you only use with the CNC programs, this will allow you to install what you like in to your normal every day partitions and not have to worry about the stability of the system (i.e. background tasks like AV stealing CPU cycles) while your machining.

I'm sure other will chime in about running CNC from a laptop, but I have no experience with that, but can't see why it would be an issue if you disable all the power management in the BIOS and se the XP partition to Performance/no power management.

Whats the make and model of the Laptop?

Stephen.

P.S. Nice work BTW, I have a similar sized lathe I'm looking at converting over the winter and your posts have been most helpful!

that is a beautiful lathe. only the best ones weight in at 3200 lbs for 12x30!

Swoolhead: Thanks very much for your comments, called my neighbor/ computor guy and he knew exactly what program you have mentioned.
What type of lathe are you going to convert ?


Again Thanks.

Mcguver: Thank you...they also made a 16X 60 that uses all the same parts in the gear head,apron and cross slide that weighed a hefty 5500 lbs.These lathes are very stable, just real nice to operate.Too bad we let the Machine Tool Industry go overseas,but it looks like we are losing a lot more manufacturing every day.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Swoolhead: Sorry, missed answering your question: The laptop is an Acer, Aspire 3000 with XP, 1.8 GHZ, 448 MB of Ram. Thanks

Today was assembly of the X axis ball shaft, double ball nuts, ball nut carrier,
fixed Angular bearing housing and ball shaft lubrication:
!st, I emptied the balls out of the 2nd ( tension nut) ball nut, and assembled the shaft to the angular bearing mount ( not in the machine) .then from the rear inserted the shaft ( whew !) and fed into the two empty ball nuts with the tension hardware in between.(This really sounds bad,but can not think how else to explain.) I loosley attached the angular bearing mount finger tight.Then began to load the empty ball nuts. I had some .0002 oversize and loaded the front attached ball nut , and at the same time loaded the tension nut with standard balls.

I loaded both ball nuts at the same time, did not take long at all. Assembled the return tubes, but on the front ball nut return tube I had to reduce the circumferance on the small allen head # 4 fastner to clear the attaching bolt
(pictures).

At this time I torqued all the fastners. I am a firm believer that a clean, lubricated fastner, properly torqued, will clamp the parts correctly, with out warping and possibly damaging the bearings.Unless there is extreme vibration I do not use locktight.

I set up the tenth dial guage and checked for backlash..none 0 ,but this is not cutting or loaded , so will find out when I begin making chips. The action is smooth, I can feel the extra load of the tension ball nut, but is not prohibitive. I took my battery powered drill and chucked up to the shaft and ran the carraige back and forth for 30-40 minutes pretty fast to see if the ball nuts accumulated any heat..none...then rechecked the backlash and again just not any..hopefully will stay that way.

Next was assembly of the cross slide cover, which I drilled and tapped to accept a 1/8th pipe and installed the oil fitting. At this time I'm doing all the oil lines in soft lines,when finished and I know what the exact routing is , will install 1/4 ID stainless .There will be many changes on routing ect, and the stainless and SAE fittings are just to expensive to be changing around. At least that is how I build my Hot Rods, saves lots of money and frustration to do in soft lines 1st.

Picture 1: Ball nuts installed and ready to load.

Picture 2:Ball nuts loaded and return tubes on.

Picture 3 and 4: Closer pictures of the assembly..you can see the allen head fastner that had to be modified. ( not bad, change order , just charge the customer O.T.)

Picture 5 and 6: Torqueing the fastners, used an x pattern and kept checking for possible bearing bind or roughness..none .Started at 25 lbs and worked up to 66 lbs in increment of 20 lbs .

Picture 7: Installed ballscrew cover and oil fitting,

Picture 8: Completed front view.

Next, will build the Z axis bearing mounts , turn that shaft and attachments to the ball nut flange ( which I do not have to modify, Yea..) but wife has dibs on my body the next three days..wants to go look at "nature" in the white mountains..well, ok it is pretty but I would rather be in the shop !But I started that argument before and LOST ( big time ).

Adobe (old as dirt)

[QUOTE=Adobe Machine;197735]What type of lathe are you going to convert ?
[QUOTE]

I have a Colchester Triumph 2000 (http://www.perfectphase.com/Mousse/Pages/Display/ImageVoting.aspx?FileID=1519) (about 10x30) I'm going to have a bash at converting.

My bigest problem at the moment is I don't think that the channel that the x-axis screw runs in is going to be big enough to allow me to fit a ball nut in, so I am going to have to find a way to hang the nut off the end of the cross slide and extend the screw out the back. Though this does have the advantage of allowing me to hang the servo under this and save a bit of space :)

Once I have cleared my garage up so I can get to the lathe, I'll take some mesurements and pics and start my own thread on the project.

Stephen.

Neato, that looks like a substantial lathe to start with. The x axis channel on mine, as you can see, is just real close, but was real lucky that everything fit. One of the forumn members, pstockley, has started a Hardinge TFB lathe retrofit, and he is doing the same thing you are talking about..in fact I remember that he had drawn it up in CAD, rendered and everything in maybe July, of this year. Might take a look, give you some ideas,seemed like a real professional retrofit.

Was looking at your all of your pictures, impressed with the blonde riding the rocket ! Seriously that lathe looks similar to my Le Blond, in fact the coolant piping is exactly the same. Also what nice home you have, looks like a home built right here in the USA.

Thanks

Adobe ( old as dirt )

Hi Adobe,
Can your converted cnc lathe cut thread? I found on the other thread that they could not cut thread. Thanks. Asuratman.

Yes, purchased a program from www.imserv.com, called FG4L. covers all US and metric plus odd ball..Fred Smith developed this really easy threading program that requires you to "fill in the blanks" hit the button and the G code is developed..Does require an encoder at spindle speed. Note: I'm using Desk CNC, and that program was written for it,but call them at 248-486-3600 to see if other controllers will work.
I did use the G code generated by this program,edited and transferred to a friends turning center and he commented it was better than his high dollar program, he was kinda bummed out .

The ability to thread was one reason I elected to convert the lathe to CNC, as I'm unable to stand any time at all, and manual threading requires you be right there !

Tooling and set up are still very important, CNC or manual. The above link to imserv. also has a short tutorial on threding..

Good Luck !

Adobe (old as dirt )

Hi,
As in your statement:"Does require an encoder at spindle speed.". Do you use 1 more axis controller for this encoder? Do you use the same type as on other controller? How big your DC spindle motor? Thanks. Asuratman.

Yes, purchased a program from www.imserv.com, called FG4L. covers all US and metric plus odd ball..Fred Smith developed this really easy threading program that requires you to "fill in the blanks" hit the button and the G code is developed..Does require an encoder at spindle speed. Note: I'm using Desk CNC, and that program was written for it,but call them at 248-486-3600 to see if other controllers will work.
I did use the G code generated by this program,edited and transferred to a friends turning center and he commented it was better than his high dollar program, he was kinda bummed out .

The ability to thread was one reason I elected to convert the lathe to CNC, as I'm unable to stand any time at all, and manual threading requires you be right there !

Tooling and set up are still very important, CNC or manual. The above link to imserv. also has a short tutorial on threding..

Good Luck !

Adobe (old as dirt )

Hi Adobe

nice working your doing on the lathe coversion

just that link u posted is not going to the right section , thought i would let u know

try this : http://www.imsrv.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=topics this takes you to the index of the
forum and the link connection is www.imsrv.com


It is interesting reading on the threading part , as i would like to be able to cut internal and external threads on my lathe converiosn to

keep up the good work


cheers

Asuratman: The spindle encoder only reads rpm to the desk CNC motion control card, which then coordinates the Z and X axis for threading or grooving etc.The lathe motor is a 10 hp 2 speed AC 3 ph motor. With the 2 speed motor ,plus 16 gear changes ,there are 32 possible speeds. I do not think I will use a DC motor or inverter to control speed as I do with my Tree mill conversion unless that becomes absolutley necessary.

Thanks for the inquirey

FPV GTp: Yes I should have said when you get to imserv, then click on quick lathe. That program also has quick turn,thread ( inside and out )drill and groove. All you do is fill in a couple of blanks and presto, the G code is written..Pretty standard G code, like I said we tested on my friends turning center and every function worked .They have a free down load, try it and see if that is what you need for your conversion.

How is your conversion going ? Also I have ment to ask you about your 4.0 Litre Turbo "Falcon" motor..is that like a Ford Falcon 6 cylinder in line ? Or a
V 6 ? What kind of boost pressure are you uising to generate that much H.P. ?
Alcohol or gas ? 1000 hp for 250 CID is just really screaming !Hope we get to see it when we travel to Aus. next year..

Adobe (old as dirt)

Your machine is really nice and will make a great CNC.

About 15 years ago, I obtained a Clausing hand screw lathe that I converted into an automatic. At that time no easy pc based cnc software and hardware was available at reasonable cost. After cranking this guy manually for 6 months, automation was formost on my mind.

My simple solution was to use air cylinders and solenoid valves for motion, add a bar feed and install Small hydraulic cylinders to provide axis dampening and speed control.

A small control box actuates movement. It consists of 4 micro switches and 7 cam wheels. The cam wheels are interchangable and can be moved for different parts by sliding them into position with the micro switches..... production cycle is set by stepped pulleys and gear motor with an o-ring drive belt. Rate is 1 to 3 parts per minute.

This guy has probably produced over 100,000 parts since its inception. It has worked so well that I have just now begun to think about changing to servo control.

WOW ! Is that cool ! Where there is a will there is a way! That shows innovation, determination and skill..love it... dc precision it is people like you that made this country great.. I often look at old patents and machinery and realize what went before us, and your machine is a good example of that . Very professionally done..can I ask what you produce with the unit ?
More pictures would be ok too !

Adobe (old as dirt )

Thanks for the compliment.

I have a small woodworking tool mfg business and use this lathe to make a special brass threaded stud, dowel pins and shaft collars. It is pretty much capable of making any part that can be made on a hand screw machine but I pretty much tailored it to my specific parts needs. If you like this one, please check out my CNC burgmaster in the photo gallery. Search dscf1440.jpg in the photos section. Also check out my post under benchtop mills "Not Excactly a Benchtop Mill".. This unit is another of my hand built conversions and I think the only one like it in existence.

Hello and Good luck toyou!
huuphuc

Hi Adobe,
Thanks for your explainations on encoder at spindle . I will start to retrofit my lathe soon. Asuratman.

FPV GTp: Yes I should have said when you get to imserv, then click on quick lathe. That program also has quick turn,thread ( inside and out )drill and groove. All you do is fill in a couple of blanks and presto, the G code is written..Pretty standard G code, like I said we tested on my friends turning center and every function worked .They have a free down load, try it and see if that is what you need for your conversion.

How is your conversion going ? Also I have ment to ask you about your 4.0 Litre Turbo "Falcon" motor..is that like a Ford Falcon 6 cylinder in line ? Or a
V 6 ? What kind of boost pressure are you uising to generate that much H.P. ?
Alcohol or gas ? 1000 hp for 250 CID is just really screaming !Hope we get to see it when we travel to Aus. next year..

Adobe (old as dirt)


hi Adobe Machine

My conversion is at a stand still as I'm trying to figure out which electronics to use and software.

Yes there are guys downunder making well over 1400 bhp out of a Ford 4 liter inline 6 cylinder engines 24 valves ( 4 per cylinder , twin camsafts with vairiable cam timing ) and not to mention huge turbos hanging of the end of the engines

Some of these street driven cars weigh 1700kgs plus driver and running high nine second passes down the quarter mile.

Stock out of the factory the FPV_GTp runs 13.9 and i ran mine the quickest was 14.2 but i babyed it along the car weighs 1820kgs with all the options plus me another 120kgs , mine GTp is a 5.4 liter quad cam Modular V8 the same engine you guys have in ur american ford cars.

The Typhoons F6 stock runs 13.9 seconds also out a inline 6 cylinder turbo 4liter



Hi asuratman's , that is a nice setup of your lathe.

cheers

cool..my boat ran 6.79 ( alcohol hydro) , same year that some "Down Under" guys came to the World Finals at Firebird ( Phoenix) and ran an Alcohol Flatbottom..did real good too ( shipped the boat here from Aus.! )

Little supercharged '34 coupe ran 10s last year with nitrous..( one you have pics of ) but really runs nice on the street too.Still a long way to go on that project.being in a wheel chair sucks for getting things done.

Ready to begin on the Z axis Thursday, is much easier than the X axis was
Recieved the new DRO Monday as I like to use the DRO to campare with where the Software thinks it is..will post pictures.

Thanks..very intresting !

Adobe (old as dirt )

I got a break today, as the "skid steer" we rented to move some decorative rock around the yard took a hike in 10 minutes of use,so while waiting for their repaiman,I got to proceed with the lathe conversion.

Pratt Whitney machined a set of very handy "T" slots in the back of the machine for their Taper attachment. As mentioned before, I checked for parallel to the square ( rear ) way..Believe me, it is parrallel to .0003 ( best I could measure) man those old machinests knew their stuff..Had a friend come over with his super duper lazer measurement "do hicky" ( I could buy a lot of production tooling for what that thingy cost him, the lease payment for the system is a Porshe payment ! ) )and he said it was withen .0002, horizantle and verticle.. 4 cervasas and I'm happy !

Started with the Fixed Angular Bearing Mount spacer block. Cut a nice billit of 7073 " scrap" (LOL) to withen .040 of the final measurements..I was a little worried maybe should have been .060 as that is only .020 for each side to square..but last pass on the Tree Mill cleaned every thing up on all sides.
Cleaned up the vise, and started the Drill sequence,counter sink and other:
1) Attachment to the Lathe, using 1/2 13 allen head fastners. I wanted this real tight, so I used a 1/2 inch new jobber drill for the four positions, then reamed only .001..Had to push the 4 new fastners in,real tight.
2) Counter sink for the 1/2 Allen's (same drill program, change Z- only ) using my Iscar 3/4 Insert Mill..what an imrpovement over just a regular Carbide mill ( no more trips to the sharpen shop for this size, just change inserts ! ). This gives just .010 clearence on the Diameter ( bolt head size is .740 +) so everthing has to be alinged correctly.Some one said that 2 things will not fit in the same space at the same time (no matter how many times I've tried ). All fit, thanks to CNC.
3) Drill for 4, 3/8-16 "jack bolts" to change the plates relationship to square, only if needed..just a thing I do to insure some adjustability in "case" ( lots of those in life )
4) Using the same drill program and changing Z-, counter sink .600, using a 1/2" end mill.
5) Drill program for the Rockford fixed Angular Bearing Block ( 4 ea 3/8 16,
through , no blinds) I use an "0" drill instead of a 5/16 drill, seem to get better threads, and these threads must withstand torque and lots of cycles.
I do not use the CNC Mill to tap, I have a hand tapper and do not break taps off in almost compleated pieces..maybe I will get better at tapping into deep Alloy Aum.with out ever breaking a tap, but just not now.
6) Deburr, break edges, chamfer all drilled and tapped holes, top and bottom. Use 600 grit on both critile sides with blueing to check for high spots.
7) Assemble, lightley, no Torque, no hard pins , untill all parts for this axis are done and assembled.
Picture 1 and 2 : Cutting the billit 7073 T-6 to size. This big ole saw saves me lots of time, just set uo correctly and hit the lever ( auto feed ) I'm running 4500 SFM with medium table speed and lots of coolant.
Picture 4 and 5 : Using my retro fit Tree Mill to surface all sides in MDI.
Picture 6 and 7: Counter sink for the 1/2 -13 Allen Head Bolts using the Iscar Insert mill.
Picture 8 : Drilling with the "o" drill for 3/8 -16 threads, eight locations.
Picture 9 : Partial assembly, you can see the "Jack bolts " explained above.
I had to cut .170 off the 1/2 -13 bolts to make sure they would not dead head into the lathe body.
Picture 10 :closer photo of above
Pictures 11,12 and last : Mounted loosley in the approxamate final position.

Next: Mount for the Simple Radial Bearing mount the back to turing and threading the hard stuff..

Adobe ( old as dirt )

Hi Adobe,

Things are looking really great with your project.. THere is no substitute for old American Iron when it comes to manual machines... Where did it all go wrong,,, we taught the world and have lost most of it... The Japanese are the worlds copycats... Invent it here in the USA,, steal all the sweat and knowlege,, put a little time in to make it just a bit better and take the business.. Now the Chinese are emulating them.

I noticed in your last posting you were talking about broken taps.. I always roll thread aluminum parts rather than cut the thread.. I believe that it produces a stronger and more precise thread and tap breakage is almost impossible.

Dennis

my VMC at work can break form taps just fine :) haha, but rolled threads are indeed much stronger, and pretty

I guess maybe you could teach this old dog ( me ) some new tricks..Some where in the foggy mind I remember that it took a special machine (like a modified Swiss screw machine )to roll or form tap.. How do they set up a V-mill or a VMC to roll threads ?

I do use spiral taps almost exclusive in Alum. , they work much better than regular taps, but still have the possibility of breaking under power.And since I'm not in production just bite the bullet and use my hand tapper.

Occasionally I would bid some jobs a little cheap for "fillers" to keep every one working during slow times..I remember one job that had eleventy one thousand holes to tap ( seemed like ) and the part to drill and tap had a least 3-4 hrs machine time before tapping.After screwing up three or 4 pieces due to broken taps ( we could not get them out, customer would not accept next size up ) it did not take to much math to figure out we could hand tap a lot of holes compared to scraping the part.

dcprecision: Your right, I do not like to even think about our loss of the Machine Tool Industry and Manufacturing in the USA..My primary theory is that a lot of people just got greedy, The CEO's, the stock holders, even the unions...it became clear we could not COMPETE in a world market and they beat us . MY heart is sick over Ford Motor Co.s troubles right now..To think that another Amercian Co might be controlled by an overseas corp. just really hurts... And yes, I did buy my wife a Kia Sorento, It was better than any mid-priced, mid sized 4 wheel drive etc , auto we could find.The fit and finish is excellent,its a pleasrue to drive, fuel economy is good considering its a V6 and 4 wheel drive .Then there is the warrenty, 100,000 miles on drive train parts...Being retired and on a fixed income, we have to look at cars as "keepers", we would rather travel and see the US and maybe some countries overseas , rather than support a car. I do have a F250, with the diesel engine, this is my last Truck, so it needs to last a long time. Will say I'm very pleased with this truck..Have had one small warrenty incident, no other.Did buy a power programmer and man did that wake up the engine. If I can just keep my foot out of it, gets excellent ( 22 +) mpg. Guess things will just have to sort out..hope we are not leaving our grand children a mess.

A long time friend bought a Fadel 2030 with a very expensive 4th axis..By the time he tooled up his investment was $100,000. plus..I was really impressed with the machine, but he has a 4 page list of problems over the last 3 years.
The big problem being machine time lost ( and some mad customers) Most of the problems have been quality related, and some of the jerks sent out to fix the machine when it broke down. He won't buy another one.In looking through this forum looks like he was not alone..

Adobe (old as dirt)

I try to keep the faith and have purchased 5 new ford and lincoln products over the last 10 yrs... I think part of the problem is as you stated being the greedy managment resting on their laurels and sweet union deals, but the real problem was and still is with the LAWYERS.... Workers comp claims costs stifeling competition because of wholesale fraud and abuse, healthcare costs out of control because of malpractice.. States and the fed lawyers taking a punative tax attitude toward business,,(political lawyers) and also the lazy instant gratification attitude promoted by todays media exposure.. I could go on and on but enough of this...........

So far as roll taps are concerned,, they are forming rather than cutting taps and work by displacing metal. They work in any softer ductile material.. The hole drilled is larger than the hole for a cut thread because the material flows inward to form the thread. Appearance is similar to a conventional tap but without the gullets and typically have a somewhat triangular shape. Usage is identical to a conventional tap but but without the associated chips to jamb and cause problems. Tapping speeds are typically 50 to 70% of drilling speed.. I do a 3/8-16 at 815 rpm and a #6 at 1700. I stated in a previous post that it was fairly impossible to break a tap and I do believe that to be true with the exception being that if you bottom one out in a blind hole it will definitly break off. I have probably tapped well over 250,000 holes at high speed without a single tap ever breaking because it jambed. I use # 6 - # 8 = 1/4-20 and 3/8-16 sizes..

I can post drill sizes for various threads if anyone is interested.

dcprecision: Is that a rigid tap set up, or a soft collet ? and who is the supplier..yes would like drill sizes !
Thanks

Adobe (old as dirt )

I do all tapping with Tapmatic tapping heads including those done on my cnc machines. I have one mill that has instantaneous reverse capability and do tap with a rigid configuration at low rpm on it manually on unique or non production parts.

These "thread forming" taps are available from any major supplier such as MSC, Mc Master, and Enco. I like the Greenfield and Cleveland brands best. I usually purchase the bottoming variety for most work because you dont have cuttings in the way.. Keep in mind that holes must be free from metal chips before tapping.

I will post drill sizes later today.

Hi Adobe,

I have posted a table of roll tap drill sizes under the General Metal Working Machines heading as a PDF attachment.

Dennis

Thanks from a lot of us, I'm going to buy a couple of sizes and try them ( you know, one of them gotta have tools ? )


Adobe ( old as dirt )

Onward with the long (Z) axis: The simple Z axis end mount was essentially the same mount as the Fixed Angular end, except there are only 2 tapped
( 3/8-16) block mount holes, but still used 4 ( 1/2-13) adaptor mounts to the machine. I was able to use all of the same G code generated by Vector CAD/CAM as the 1st mount, I just killed two holes. I did not put any jack bolts in, as I felt that any correction needed will come from the fixed end, if needed.
You can see the machine to blocks relationship in the pictures. The blocks are not torqued or pinned at this point, I plan to mount a mag base dial indicator with the Z axis shaft mounted and the ball nuts installed and "track" the shaft through its entire distance after all is installed. After tracking and adjusting, will torque to specs, run the machine for awhile , then pin all bearing mounts.I have, in the past, pinned too early, only having to bow down to the mistake God three times..and other.

Since the Z axis ball screw is so long, I have found that it is imperitive that the other end of the shaft is stablized , not just the chuck end., and since the Soft jaws I made are alum., it is even more mandatory, as the shaft will tend to whip and move, making a clean, accurate shaft end impossible.
For lack of a better word, I call it a lathe" Butt Plug". I turn the O.D. to the lathe shaft I.D. and bore the center to the shaft I'm turning , in this intance, it is .631. The Butt Plug is an interferance fit, and I just tap it in, then insert the shaft I'm turning. You would be suprised how well this helps center the turned shaft. The pictures illustrate how the plug fits.

Next is turning the ends of the long Z shaft..This is just hard stuff, can only take .050 DOC at slow..( boring..)just takes time, if you get anxious, you will
scrap it, or end up with a mess, and possibly broken tooling. The specs for the bearing mount shaft area is in tenths, and you want to split those specs as close as possible for a proper fit and correctly performing machine.

Picture 1. Finished and installed simple end bearing mount. Note: None of the mounts are torqued to specs, or pinned.

Picture 2. Longer view of above to show relationship on the machine.

Picture 3. This is the fixed end,to show how the shaft will fit.

Picture 4. Found some more 6061 scrap round stock and turned to I.D. of lathe drive shaft, plus .0005, nice interferance fit, then bored to .6315.

Picture 5. "Butt Plug" installed, with shaft .

Picture 6. Closer picture of the plug and shaft.

Picture 7. Start on turning one end of the shaft.

Next: Finish the shaft, mount and track.build the ballnut mount to carriage and scrape in to eliminate bind.

Adobe (old as dirt)

A quick question, what spec motors are you planning on using to drive the x&z axis?

Machine Tool Camp, series 32 ,672 in/oz servos with US Digital encoders. The total reduction ( both avis) will be 7.2 :1, so there will be plenty of torgue and at 3500 rpm max , 80 IPM . Considering the long Z axis is only 30 ", will cover Z+ to Z- in less than 30 seconds.I may have to limit G00 to 40-50 IPM cause I can"t think that fast anyway.


Adobe (old as dirt)

Finished turning and threading the the X ( Long ) axis ball shaft. I changed the thread type to a 7/16 -20 , as I did not like the supplied fastners..They are difficult to torque correctly, so on the X axis I will use grade 8 double nuts.
1st nut against the bearing spacer is for torgue, the second is to lock.

I have a couple of pictures of the tooling I use to turn and thread. Even with a marginal lathe, with the correct inserts and holders, you can do a very professional job while turning and threading hard alloy steels.The key is set up, feeds and speeds and the correct inserts. My threading kit has profiling inserts for all threads, 8 to 24 threads per inch.They are engineered to cut perfect threads, and using the last ( spring pass) eliminate burrs. In the "old days" we struggled to thread with 60 degree cutters, these newer type profile inserts certinley achieved excellent results at an economical price. I have had this kit for over 3 years, and only had to replace one insert, as I bumped it against the shoulder on the last pass. My son and I (mostly him ) are rebuilding a Travel Air Bi Plane ( 1929 ) and he had attempted to cut some threads on his mini lathe with disappointing results.We then used my profile inserts and the threads came out excellent, and this using some tough, hard round stock.Pass any FAA inspection.
The same is true on just regular turning. When we started using these Valenite MCLN holders with the CNMP type positive rake inserts, our product came out much better, and quicker ! You reduce the cutting forces with these cutters, so your not "pushing" the tool and the turned part away from each other, giving an excellent finish in alloy steel and believe it or not, Alum. With alum. I usually use these cutters and finish cutters, but have also used them ( when I got lazy, did not want to change tooling ) to hog..like .250 depth of cut..The only thing with these holders and inserts they are big at the working end and if you are using a live center, hard to get in to cut the last inch or so, so you would use a left handed cutter if that was the situation.
I did notice that EMCO and some of the other discount tool supplies had the same style holder and inserts ,real economical. I've never tried those Asian imports, but would think they would be ok. Most of Kennemetal and Valanite holders and some inserts are comming from Isreal and their quality is excellent.In fact I purchased a 3 insert end mill ( 3/4 ") from Iscar.I have to tell you, that thing will make some chips in a hurry !
Another industry going over seas , real sad.
After finishing the ball shaft, I milled the "Link" between the apron and X axis ball nut flange.As WALT @ SGS had suggested in another thread, I hand lapped the surfaces between the apron and link and the ball nut flange and link.
In order to determine where to locate the center hole to pass the shaft through, and subsequent taped holes for the ball nut flange, I made a "pilot" shaft and turned a centered point on it.This pilot shaft had the same O.D. as the fixed angular bearings I.D. less .0003. I assembled the link to the apron, and brought it as close to the Fixed end as I could.I inserted the pilot thru the bearings and used it to mark the center.
Using Vector CAD/CAM, and my Tree Mill, I started X0Y0 at center of the shaft hole and interpolated a hole @ .700, then drilled 4 ea .201 holes for a 1/4 20 tap, and hand tapped those holes.

Next is: reloading the ball nut and installation on the machine.

Picture 1 : Simple end turning is done.

Picture 2 : Z Axis "Link" long look

Picture 3 & 4 a look at the tooling used for threading and turning.

Even using double ball nuts, I still stuff the front ( fixed, the one with the flange ) baLL nut with oversize balls ( chrome steel, 52100, grade 25), and just use the factory balls in the tension nut ( the tension nut does not drive, it only puts tension on the ball nut and the shaft )
In the pictures below, you can see how I set up to reload ball nuts.
1st I set the shaft in the lathe, and clean the shaft. Next I empty the factory balls in one container. I measure at least 30% of the balls, to determine if they loaded with oversize or staggered. They did not, all factory balls measured .1248 to .1249..close enough. I then prepped 2 dishes for oversize balls (.1252 and .1253) and marked my table that I use under the shaft for tools and to have a "catcher" plastic dish in case one gets dropped ( only 2 today). Then I load the empty ball nuts and hardware on the shaft and remount on the lathe...I shift the lathe in neutral and turn off the electrical to the lathe OFF as a saftey item. I begin loading, one ball in each, turn the chuck while holding the nuts and watch the balls disappear, keep loading and turning the same direction. I do keep the nut wet with oil, putting a little in every 3-4 balls.Pretty soon you can see balls appearing in the other side of the circut, do not let them go past where the tubes go in, they will forever be in no mans land and not recirculate !Next, use vasoline ( if a cool day, grease if a hot day) and fill 1/2 of the split recirculating tube with balls, then press the 2 sides together and install on the nut.I do install fastners at this time. It is important to turn the ball nut through the entire range, see if binds or jumps, or is loose. This was not any of the above, no the next step is installation of the shaft on the machine.

Picture 1 : My way of settting up and organising to stuff balls.

Picture 2 & 3 : Unloaded nuts and hardware on the shaft.

Picture 4 : Containers and tools

Picture 5 : Almost done

Picture 6 : Done

Picture 7: After running up and down the shaft, now ready for install.

Next : Installation of the ballshaft, testing for backlash, torquing fastners,and running the Z axis through the full 33" inches.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Installation of the ball shaft to the machine : With everything machined and done , and if I have measured everything correctly, it will fit as planned. No proplems loading, then I installed the ball nut and flange on the link ( Note, one is a stud to guide together) then tighten down.The bolt pattern was right on, but there is no play even with the fastners not tightned. I then ran the carraige to the fixed end and slightly tightned the fixed end angular bearing mount to the machine ( 25 lbs torque only ). then ran the carriage to the simple end and repeated. I then ran the carriage back and forth to the limits of each end about a dozen time, using my battery powered drill. No binding, no heat . The with one hand I turned the carriage to both limits, no binds.
At this time I torqued all fastners (to specs.) involved in the Z axis and repeated turning by hand the full distance and back. I did lubricate the balls and shaft a couple of times, then used my battery powered drill, ran the axis back and forth untill both batteries were dead. No heat, no binds exceptionally smooth.
I set up my tenths indicator as shown, at this time there is NO BACKLASH. I even had a neighbor ( at least 240 lbs ) push against the apron and we could see no movement .Untill the machine is making chips and under a good load, it would not be right to say there is 0 backlash, just at this time there is none.

Next. Machining the mountings for the servos, belts, tensioners and covers.I ordered a bellows to protect the ball shaft, will have to engineer mounts.

Pictures 1 & 2 :Installed ball nuts and shafts. The lower left fastner is the guide stud.

Pictures 4 and 5 Dial indicator set up to measure backlash.

Picture 6& 7 : Link and simple end.

Picture 8 : Ballnuts, shaft and Fixed angular end ( my shorty 11/16 end wrench was used to determine backlash)

Picture 9: Battery powered drill motor as a driver to test the Z Axis.

Picture 10. Torquing all fastners and bearing mounts.

Next : A cervasa. ( hey, its Saturday, right ? )

Adobe (old as dirt )

Hello.

I own a small company in Portugal, where we have 3 latches. They work all day long, and we do, as all others companys near us, small quantities pieces.

I already made a cnc plasma cutter and a router mostly for wood. I have a difficult time in obtain pieces for both machines, and they probably cost me 2 times the price for you guys in Canada or USA. Both machines are payed with the work that they done.

I am very interested in your project, and I would like to know if you have work for the machine after it is done. Simple question, but the most important to me.
This question is because, if I have a cnc latch in my workshop, I don't know if work will apper to work on it.
I also think (know) that there is not and cnc latch in a 300 Km (arround 200 miles). So this could mean a opportonity ...

What do you think, or what others think about it ?
Any sucess storys of a guy that both a cnc and got lots of work ? Doing what ?


Thanks

Well, I had an accident 3 1/2 years ago that put me in a wheel chair. I make parts for Hot Rods, street rods and some race cars ( 1/4 mile drags) We had already sold our business of 35 years.( Manufacturing and Machine shop ) I had planned on retiring, working part time in my home shop, but it is real hard to operate a manual machine from a wheel chair.I 1st converted an old Tree Mill to CNC (one in the pictures) and that was so much fun and worked so well , decided to convert my Pratt Whitney Lathe to CNC.
Would it be economical ? Including a DRO, all the electronics,servos, electronic cabnet, wiring , ball screws, double ball nuts and misc fastners, I will have spent about $ 3800.00.I have owned the lathe since new
( purchased in 1969 never used, but manufactured in the mid 50's ) and taken real good care of it..so the decision was pretty easy. I just did not want to buy a used NC or CNC lathe and retrofit, then find mechanical problems.
To evaluate your situation as income vs cost would be imposible..If you found a good manual lathe and did the retrofit your self it might be economical and make a good business decision.It also could be a big" boat anchor" taking up room in your shop.Most depends on your skill leval and determination to make an accurate piece of machinery.
There are a lot of people on the Forum who can help you on the electrical end, because my education was not in electrical, I bought a complete kit from Machine Tool Camp, that made it easy for me and it uses matched items.
Most of the material used was scrap 6061 t6 and 7073 t 6 alum that I have been scounging for years. All fastners are # 8, and I'm real particular on correct torque and assembly procedures.I purchased complete fixed angular bearing mounts and used premium Barden bearings, as opposed to trying to "re-invent the wheel"and make the housings myself. In reading this forumn and searching you can see that most backlash problems are created by poor bearing mounts and poor planning.
Let me say this , in being in business for myself for 35 years.... if you do quality work, are honest with your employees and customers and can do something no one else does in the area, you have a good chance of being sucessfull.If you retrofit a lathe to CNC you may have to go out and advertise your new capability, but you may find even your competitors will use you for hard to lathe items. ( Profiling, threading tapers etc ).
If you get to the point you have decided to go ahead with a conversion, I can give a list of parts and suppliers to help you get started.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Thank you.

I think I can handle an entire retrofit. I am able to do the electrical part, machanical and if necessary I can write a program to output gcode (I am not trying to say that I am good, but I think I can). I have done this before to my plasma table and my router, that were done from scratch.

The most important is if it will be work for the machine and the limitation of the machine, 1,2,3 or more tools ?

For example to do a simple sphere. How many tools are needed ? One for the one half of the sphere and another to the back of the sphere. ?!

Thank you for your replay.

Filipe

Tooling : I only use carbide inserted tools, main tools are left and right hand
MCLN shanks and the CNMP or CNMP/E 80 degree diamond shaped inserts, some with negative and some with a little positive rake, I use profiled tools for internal and external threading, as the picture above shows. We have drawer fulls of boring bars, a lot we made from HSS years back for groving
( o rings) and special applications, but my favorites are SI-STFC (R &L) for internal boring. Frankley, a lot of the tooling I have are from years of collecting, but do not use many HSS tools any more.
In tooling one of the 1st considerations is ridgidness..and the ability to cut with out a lot of cutting force. Using the MCLN tools with the CNMP carbide inserts reduced cutting forces substantially, therefore able to increase cycle times.
The only limitations of an open bed CNC lathe will be your ability to program: I use a CAD/CAM program ( Vector) to draw the part and convert the G code, it has taken me awhile to get comfortable with using it, but I do not know how we ever got by with out this type of program..I also bought a threading,turning and groving program put together by Fred Smith at Im serv, this is just fill in the blanks, and presto the G code is spit out.Really nice, well thought out program, and the ISO G code is pretty standard .
The other draw back is right now I have no automatic tool changer, but have looked at some internet plans that seem pretty easy to fabricate and install. After all the bugs are sorted out , then I will get serious about an ATC.
This will not be a high dollar turning center, mearly a very accurate CNC open bed lathe, that is a lot more versital than a manual one. If I need a manual lathe, there is a 17X60 Le Blond sitting next to it.

Adobe (old as dirt )

Fabrication and trial fit of the X axis belt cover/ servo support.

I found A 10" piece of 6061-t6 round stock that I've been hording for years, has a little storage/moving damage on the O.D., but fills a need for the X axis pully/belt cover and servo mount.

Fabricated a 3/8 flat stock of 6061 t-6 for a spacer that also serves as a stiffner for the Z axis link to the X axis bearing mount, which is also the link to the Apron, this should stiffen all of the Z axis functions.

Will let the pictures do the talkin' as they say...

Picture 1: Hoggin out the X axis pully/belt/servo support cover.

Picture 2: This is my 1978 or 1979 Tree Mill ( originally 2 axis) converted to 3 axis . using a 3 insert, Iscar 3/4" mill..56 IPM X.100 doc @ (estm ) 4500 spindle RPM...just makin' lots of chips !

Picture 3: Buried deep and runnin' hard..( wish I could )

Picture 4: Almost done., if you can see my DRO indicates X at .00059, and Y
at .0000, The Desk CNC screen shows X @ .0000 and Y @ .0000 , heck after all that rockin' and rollin', the 27 (28?) year old mill is off maybe .0006 or so..not bad considering age eh ?
(next post)

Adobe (old as dirt)

More : Pictures 5 and 6 surfacing the back side with a 2 ", 3 insert cutter.

Picture : 7and 8 , pocket and both front and back sides finished.

Picture : Re-set up, intropolating a 3.2 inch center hole for the pully hub access.

Picture: Just truckin', this Insert mill is making chips like crazy !

Picture: 3.2" hole is done, measured out of round is less than .0003 if I measure correctly ( and I can measure correctly ) I did have to deburr the edges before I measured the circle ( 8 places). Gonna take me longer to clean the mess than the machine time ~!

Picture: You can see how all of the Z componets and X axis componets come together. The round plug you see in the middle is a piece I turned to locate the cover on the X axis..And make sure that the located drilled holes were correct to the center of the X shaft.

Picture: View front of lathe to rear.

Picture: You can see how the cover is located.

Picture: Long view with the locating plug removed

Picture: Closer view

More Pictures next.

OK some of the pics are not in order..I think most of you are intelligent enough to figure out how I fu..k..d the order..

any way these pictures are why I must, must have a CNC mill and Lathe !

Adobe (old as dirt )

Keep em coming :drool:

Fomaz:Maybe this could help your questions on the spindle control:
go to http://www.cadcamcadcam.com-Lathe Encoder kit-40436, look at that then on the left side is Desk CNC, hit that and look at Desk CNC software and controller..They also have "lathe quick software" hit and open..
There are some limited free down loads that will give you an idea what can be done very economically..as far as a controller and software.
I'm just a real KLUTZ when it comes to computors and software, but these programs have made it real easy..did I say I still use a slide rule ? ( I do !)..my children really laugh when I pull it out and challenge them to solve math problems faster ( they beat me every time if they use this computor, O well )

Adobe (old as dirt)

Fomaz:Maybe this could help your questions on the spindle control:
go to http://www.cadcamcadcam.com-Lathe Encoder kit-40436, look at that then on the left side is Desk CNC, hit that and look at Desk CNC software and controller..They also have "lathe quick software" hit and open..
There are some limited free down loads that will give you an idea what can be done very economically..as far as a controller and software.
I'm just a real KLUTZ when it comes to computors and software, but these programs have made it real easy..did I say I still use a slide rule ? ( I do !)..my children really laugh when I pull it out and challenge them to solve math problems faster ( they beat me every time if they use this computor, O well )

Adobe (old as dirt)


Link is:
http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=104

Thank you... I wrote the lathe software :)

Nice work Adobe Machine!!

Wow..Wayne I can not say enough good about that program...I took it over to a friend of mine that has a high dollar turning center with a Funac control..He was astounded, and a little bit bummed as he had just paid some big bucks for a program that was not as user friendly, and your program actually was faster.All we had to do was edit some G code for his particular machine.
Couple your program with a decent CAD CAM program ( I'm using Vector) and you essentially have what some have paid $ $ $ $ for and gotta kick in more every year.

From me and I'm sure a lot of people using your program, THANKS !

Adobe (old as dirt)

X axis servo mount, belt cover: I found some scrap 6061 T 6 that had the correct deminsions to duplicate the round portion and enough length. Cut to size using my Power Matic 24 inch verticle band saw ( I saw alum at 4600 SFM, medium table speed..get a real good , accurate cut, almost as good as machined ) and cleaned up an old piece of 1/4" non structual alum for a sacrificial bottom, as this big of piece could not be cut in the vice.( table mount )

Pictures 1-2-3-4 :Show the set up and machining, using my Iscar 3 insert, 74 IPM at 4600 spindle ( estm ) and .200 doc.

Picture 5 : you can see the scrap starting to come off.I actually machined the sacrifical alum about .001 to .002, The good material measured .425,that was my Z drop (-),so maybe the Z is off by .001, or I was .001 above when I touched off the tool, hard to tell, but if there is a mistake, its usually me.

Picture 6-7: After finishing the O.D. of the servo support, assembled to the belt cover on the machine so that I could drill, countersink and tap as one assembly. I used some witness marks so I could make sure the alingment was spot on.There are 9 fastner holes ( 5/16 allen ). I only countersunk .150, as I wanted good material for clamping.

Picture 8: Top view of unit.

Next:Machine servo mount. I "sink" the servo outer mount in .130, and counter sink the locating boss as much. The plate is flat mounted with the sacrificial 1/4 " junk alum. on the Tree Mill table,and the CAM program is ready, so 1st thing in the morining, get to push buttons.. ! Then assembly.

Adobe (old as dirt )

Machined the Servo mount, which includes a .130 recess for the square servo flange, the round locator and 4 ea .215 holes matching the servo flange. I like to recess the flange and make it tight so there is no possibility of the servo "walking" under high torque conditions. It was tight allright,the servo flange used a hickey radius on the four corners, so had to dress them to fit the 1/2" radius I had in Vector CAD CAM, O well, took an hour or so of filling and hand fitting.I also drilled and reamed one 1/2" hole, and slotted another for the guide and tensioner ( They are actually called "stud bearings" have a quality bearing 3/4 inches wide with a 1/2 -20 stud with provisions to lube..really nice for a tensioner and guide.) After I got every thing cleaned up, deburred and holes chamfered, installed the drive and driven pullys and loaded everything on the lathe..Everything fit, even the belt length was correct as I used very little of the milled slot to tension the belt.I used a little anti-seize on all the fastners, but have not torqued to specs yet, just brought to almost tight.
Ran the servo with the battery from my Hot Rod, and I was suprised how quick the X axis went with only 12 volts. The power supply for this is going to be 80 volts,so the limit switches are going to be necessary with that kind of speed.

Picture 1& 2: The completed, milled parts, ready for a trial fit. The 1/2 inch nuts you see on the servo mount are the stud ends of the tensioner and guide.Using Vector CAD program, I was able to determine an obtimal position for the guide and the tensioner so as to get at least a 50% wrap on the driving pully. You can also see the reccess for the servo flange at .130.

Picture 3: Servo mount backside, and here you can see the tensioner/guide and their locations.

Picture 4 :is a closer view of the servo mount / belt cover.

Picture 5:Trial assembly..hmm.. everything fit correctly the first time .

Picture 6: Assembly from above

Picture 7: X axis drive group is ready to go..

Next: A cold Bud, it is Saturday, right ?
Then start making parts for the Z axis drive group.

A couple of quick questions for the experts. Would you not wire all overtravel switches parallel ? By that I mean, if one is tripped it kills all axis ?

Thanks

Adobe (old as dirt )

Start of Z axis servo drive:Cut a piece of 6061 T-6 plate for the Servo motor support. Using Vector CAD CAM I machined the servo mount recess .130, the # 10 holes and the face circle, then machined all of the mount holes. I did not round the corners and trim the outside yet, will do that when the entire unit is assembled, then do a quick perimeter pass with a 3/4 endmill.

Next, cut and machined 4ea, 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 inch steel pieces that will stiffen the plate from "torque curl", drilled and tapped then assembled to the servo plate.

Using Vector CAD CAM again, I cut clearences for the large upper pully, belt, tensioner, guide and cut the adjusting groove for the tensioner..

Using the same set up, I surfaced the assembled steel blocks so as to have a clean,flat surface to mount the back plate.

During a trial fit on the lathe, I found that the end of the lathe had some casting bumps ( hey, if you were that old you might have some "bumps" too)
that I must leval before installation to insure that the servo support plate is 90 degrees to the Z axis ball screw.

I also ordered my Ingus support for the wiring that will move with apron and the Z axis DRO wiring, they said about 6 days on that. I'm watching Erics
( the Widgetmaster) installation of a new DRO on his lathe, for some good ideas on my installation of the DRO on my conversion. Even with CNC, I sure like a DRO that shows actual position. I find little , if any error on my Tree CNC retrofit, but find myself looking at the DRO as much as the screen position.

Next: cut, drill countersink and install the rear plate to the assembled servo mount plate.

Pictures 1,2 & 3 Servo mount plate, servo mount machined, holes drilled, 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 stiffners/ spacers machined, drilled and tapped. I have not cleaned up the edges or rounded the corners, as that will be done as one unit with the back plate installed.

Pictures 4,5 &6: Partially assembled, then milling for clearence on the large pully, for the tensioner, guide and belt. then the slot for tensioner.

Pictures 7&8: Surfacing the stiffner/spacer blocks for a clean, flat surface to mount the back plate.

Pictures 9& 10, Overall view, just a mock up too illustrate how the componets will fit when assembled to the lathe.

A couple of quick questions for the experts. Would you not wire all overtravel switches parallel ? By that I mean, if one is tripped it kills all axis ?



Depends on the logic, if they are normally-open then they would be wired in parallel (OR'd).
If normally-closed type then they would all be wired in series.
(AND'ed).
The normal method is the latter, N.C.
Al.

Al The Man : Thank you very much for you help, I will wire in series as you suggest.

Next newbie electronic question. The program I'm using ( Desk CNC ) supports a homing switch. I have over travel on my Retro fited Tree Mill, but never used the homing sequence, as I just make home where wanted on the table. With an open bed CNC lathe , is there any particular advantage to having X and Z axis "home" ?

Again, thanks for the reply.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Adobe We are in parallel universe. I am right now in ACAD on my other computer designing a combination spindle & "C" type axis for a different conversion. I have room under the spindle itself for the servo/ spindle motor, so I place it there and tension the belt with the motor attached to a plate that can be adjusted & locked in place by screws. That way the motor is out of the way & out of danger. Later

is there any particular advantage to having X and Z axis "home" ?


If you have many programs that you wish to use over and over I would say that if you have a zero position initially then you don't have to go to the bother of setting a ref manually, also it probabally depends on how you customarily write programs.
Someone like Hu may give you a more definitive answer from a machinist point of view.
Al.

Richard Zastrow: Cool, do we get pictures of that project ? And maybe some on your Tree if you buy ?

I spent a good part of the day hand scraping the end of the lathe where the Z axis servo plate will be attached .Used lots of blueing to scrape in, but good cast iron is not that bad, kinda fun, but do not think I would want to make a living hand scaping , my arms and shoulders are toast tonight. Did get it flat, and the plate is 90 degrees to the shaft,so some assembly tomorrow and the Z drive will be done.I still will not pin or torgue to specs, as I have to pull the assembly apart once , to install the ball shaft bellow covers.
Will post the compleated Z axis photos tomorrow.

Next will be the build on the control panel and installing the spindle encoder.I have been looking at a mechanical tach I have from a past project ( crashed Fuel Flat bottom boat ) and I may incorporate that in the control panel. Reminder of foolish days past .

Al The Man: Again , thanks..I think I will work with the lathe awhile, get everything working correct and safe, then review a home switch.

Adobe (old as dirt )

Rechecked the scraping and leveling that I did on Saturday, it was acceptable,(gotta tell you , my arms and shoulders are still sore from scraping) so I took the Z axis assembly as a unit and clamped it to the machine, lined up the center of the shaft using a plug I turned on Le Blond lathe that matched the OD of the machined hole for the pully flange, then bored a center hole that matched the OD of the Z axis shaft where it is machined on the end.This worked OK, except the unit assembled was a lot heavier than I could handle from the wheel chair.My wife came out and helped, but there was a little oil or WD Forty on the unit and it slipped out of her hands..No one got hurt , just a little scar on the bottom of the assembly, so what the heck..took a few with the file , looks ok ( like you can see it any way,its about a 1/16th above the lathe catch pan )

Drilled and tapped the six mount holes..Good cast iron, took awhile, then mounted and rechecked center with the plug..looked spot on.Assembled the upper ( large ) pully, the servo and its pully, both the guide and tensioner, then the belt.I was a little tighter on this measurment than the X drive, as it tightned up with the tensioner moved just a little off the O position. Installed the back cover, hooked up the battery from My Hot Rod and ran the axis back and forth a lot. I was really suprised how fast 12 volts will drive the axis, saw no binding and for what and how I was doing the test, seemed real smooth ( not a real scientific test )I did retest back lash, and there is none, but again not under cutting conditions, so its kinda of a no account test..

The pictures show the installed drives for both X and Z, and their relation to each other.I have to partially disassemble the Z axis when the protective Z axis ball shaft bellows arrive, mount the sender for the DRO,and mount the Ingus for the wires that will move with the saddle.

Next: Design and machine a control panel that will have the machine ON switch, Emergancy Stop Switch,servo amp switch, coolant over ride switch, and a spindle tacometer . I will leave enough room for other up grades and switches if needed. I am going to use Desk CNC and Vector to Engrave the function of the switch under the cut out for the switch, then use a good paint, let it dry and sand off the excess so the engraved names really stand out..Man I like CNC, I can remember when we had to machine part numbers in the compleated part with a Manual Mill , what a PITA that was..


Adobe (old as dirt)

Hey, any suggestions on a panel layout is greatly appreciated !

Control Panel and housing . Using Vector, drew up the control panel, printed it out on a 1 to 1 basis,glued to a piece of cardboard and tested for fit and ease of operation from my wheel chair and shop stool, felt comfortable, so I cut out the material from a large piece of 6061 t-6 alum. (.25") and milled all of the switch holes, the hole for the tachometer and the opening for the foward/reverse spindle motor. Also engraved all of the switch functions
( note, the ALT 2 is for the spindle 2 speed motor relay, 1150 RPM or 1750 RPM) Used some "Candy Apple Red " base paint left over from painting the Hot Rod frame, brushed into the engraved names and let it dry. Used a 180 grit wet or dry paper then a 400 grit wet or dry and sanded the whole panel, cleaned it up ok ( Most of the alum. I'm using is salvalged from jobs many years ago, and storage has not been pristine to say the least, so either I have to surface it or sand it..1/4" alum does not surface real well, wants to curl,so I sand it.
I've sent my manual Tachometer to be cleaned , recalibrated and new a face plate with numbers, they are changing the spring inside so the range of the tach is from "0" to 3000 rpm (instead of 9000 rpm ) The old tach has gotten wet a couple of times, as I crashed the Blown Fuel Flat it was in more than once, suprised there was not more rust inside, but looked pretty clean.I'm using the Hot Rod tachometer for mock up.
Got the sides cut, will fit and cut the top tomorrow, then drill/tap for all of the fastners. The DRO will be directly above the control panel using the really nice bracket they sent to mount the head on, which will allow the Head to tilt or turn as needed.I have the same type of DRO on my mill, very nice looking units , the one on the mill performs good, has lots of functions ( some I use )for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of a domestic one.The instruction language is old kings english and ?, but the units are very good quality. Real sad..just wonder what kind of mess we are leaving our grand kids with everything going overseas.I'm afraid my generation will be remembered as the ones that let it go to sh.. in a hand basket...
All of the wiring will go to the control cabnet mounted directly behind the machine, the top of the control /electrical cabnet will be at the same leval as the top of the control panel.
The following pictures are just mock up, to make sure everything will fit, but should have it assembled by this week end.

Adobe (old as dirt )

I always look forward to the email with a new post in here :cheers: Looks good as always bud!

Thanks for the kind words Kipper, I have been held up this weekend as we had some "unexpected guests" that are requiring a tour of the beauitiful area we live in, so will be tomorrow before I can get back to it..again thanks

Adobe (old as dirt )

Extremely sweet

E

I skipped over an item on the Z axis drive assembly: As you can see in the
1st picture,there is a round plate attached to the back plate of the Z axis drive cover.I located and machined a pocket for a precision ball bearing that fits the end of the Z axis ball screw shaft. This gives absolute support to the end of the Z axis ball shaft, so that there can be no bending of the shaft under hard torque. In other words, there is the fixed angular bearing and housing, then the drive pully, then the precision ball bearing.

Completed the Control Panel assembly, drilled the sides for the cable supports,installed the electrical cabnet, installed the DRO mount, drilled the electrical cabnet and put in six bulkhead connectors for all of the circuts that are a part of the control panel. I have not drilled and tapped the fastners for the top of the control panel assembly untill all of the wiring is done, but it fit so tight had to use a screw driver to pry up and off.

Next, will start drilling and tapping the electrical cabnet mount plate for the electronic componets, then start wiring , but that might be awhile, as I enter the hosbital next week for 4 days ( 3rd fusion)then will be down for a couple of days after that.

Picture 1. Precision bearing mount, end of Z axis.

Pictures 2,3,4,&5Different views of the control panel assembly and Electrical cabnet.

Picture 6, long front view

Pictures 7and 8View from the tail stock end.

picture 9 inside of electrical cabnet showing the six bulk head fittings.

Picture 10 & 11 shows inside of the control panel assembly..You can see the support straps and the back side of the bulkhead fittings.

Adobe (old as dirt )

Started on the sub panel and mounting the electronic componets. I bought the electrical Enginering kit from Machine Tool Camp.They make it easy for an electrical challenged person like me, supplying a complete list ( down to the drill size)of needed parts,supplies and a 1 to 1 chart that you can use to position, punch and drill for all componets, then a circut by circut wiring diagram that would be real hard to mess up, even with colors !
The Machine Tool Camp system takes you step by step through the test procedure and final hook up.The little I paid for their engineered machine solution and book is cheap compared to frying componets and wondering why it will not work.

Picture 1 is the blank sub panel,

Picture 2 & 3 show the 1 to 1 position and punch chart, along with the tap, drill and decimal sizes.

Picture 4 shows the componets , not including the wire duct, which I will cut and mount tomorrow.

There is one componet position I changed , having a fit problem with my mill set up and that is the orientation of the Desk CNC Control Card, it needs to be rotated 90 degree, as the interface cable from the P.C. is put into a real bind.

Next: finish and install the componets on the sub panel, then wire the Desk CNC Controller and the Servo Amps while the sub panel is still out and laying down, then wire everything else after the sub panel is installed..

I finally got a ship date on the Ball Screw covers today. (ordered and paid for 3 weeks ago ) Still no ship date on the Igus assembly, but can get around that.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Here are the pictures:

Adobe (old as dirt)

Thank you very much Balsaman, I have been following your thread " 2 cylinder Inline water Cooled" and really in awe at the craftmanship and accuracy that you have in building your little motor.That really takes some concentration and patience..Very nice work. In fact, I have noticed how many fine machinests live in Canada..Maybe your long winters ?.. Again thanks

Adobe (old as dirt)

Electronics and controls: As I stated, I'm "Electronically Challenged", so this part is a slow go..I check and re-check, test each as I go, and solder each wire at all connections. I manufactured speciality construction equipment
( Asphalt) the last 12 years in business, and found most of the reliability problems were in the electronics, deriving from poor connections and bad grounds..Getting called out at 0400 in the morning by a mad customer that had just purchased your machine was not nice..especially when they had about 15 people standing around, all on the clock..talk about feeling about 2 inches tall when you find all it was is a poor connection..man did I change the way we assembled the electrical system in a hurry. All connections soldered, all connections with heat shrink, avoiding "hidden" connections you could not check with out spending hours tearing things apart..so to say,
the least,I'm cautious when asembling electronics.
Drilled and tapped the sub panel according to directions from Machine Tool Camp,changing a few items. The "Magic" box ( Desk CNC control Card) required 4-40's instead of 10-24's as called for, but I remember that snafu from doing the Tree Mill, and I changed the orintation so that the USB to serial cable is not in a bind. Although for right now I'm only installing Servo Amplifiers for the X and Z axis only, but left room and drilled and tapped for 2 more , as I'm now in the process of designing a 6 Tool Auto Tool Changer that will use a small servo and air to operate.
Installed all of the wire gutters, the servo amps, the 2 solid state relays ( 5 volts DC, switch 110-240 volts, 10 amps maxium) controlled by the Desk CNC Software, Desk CNC magic card,Main Contactor Relay and the ribbon cables from the Desk CNC Controller to the servo amps and the solid state relays.Compleated the DC wiring from the power supply to the servo amps..
Accomplished some AC wiring, contactor to Emergency Stop and Servo On switch...
But have a long way to go. After I'm released from the hosbital and After Care, I should be able to resume the wiring. The Hosbital did say I would be able to use my Lap Top as they have WiFi ? and I will use it to design the swival mount for the LapTop (dedicated) computor that will control the Lathe.
Following are some pics of the little bit I got done on the wiring.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Just a point about general practice of component mounting.
It is usually the custom to mount all heat radiating devices like transformers & power supplies at the top of the cabinet and heat sensitive devices like drives, at the bottom or below them lower down, just to avoid overheat problems.
Something to keep in mind for the future.
Al.

That makes sense..Although, even in the hot Arizona summer I have had no problem with the retro Tree mill that has the same stack of componets. The electrical box will also have a good fan, I direct that at the servos.., possibly one of the reasons I've not had problems is that the air intake is high in the box, and the out let is low, so that the transformer heat does not rise to the servos ?
That may be one of the reasons the original Tree system failed, they had two huge transformers in the bottom of the cabnet..when I removed all the componets and wiring, everything looked like it had been hot for a substained time..
I will incorporate your suggestion in the next CNC effort (Plasma Cutter)
Thanks

Adobe (old as dirt)

I try to connect everything with crimp connectors and terminal (barrier) strips. That way, every signal is accessible so that I can look at it with a meter or a scope.

I also try to color code the wires to make things easier to follow.

BTW: that's a beautiful job you are doing.

Ken

Ken, thank you for the nice words, I have been in the hosbital all week ( 3rd major back surgery ) and their WiFi and Internet was not working in the new area I was in..Actually, I solder the end of the wires after stripping and like you use the crimp connectors. All of the wiring except incomming AC ( thats just black and white) is color coded, which I've built a list for ,so I can remember !I will say that Scott @ Machine Tool Camp did a good job on the Electrical Engineering and diagrams..even a dummy like me can put one together.
Speaking of remembering, how is your Mill conversion going ?Seems you were working on one about a year before I started my Tree retrofit ?
Anyway, again thanks..will be back working on the lathe in maybe a couple of weeks..

Adobe (old as dirt)

Adobe, Hope you are recovering well form your surgery. Your lathe conversion is great.

Are the ball screws you are using just the cheap rolled screws? Does you software have a way to map the lead errors and compensate?

You shouldn't solder the stripped wires before crimping a connector on. Solder creeps at room temperature, so those crimp connectors will sooner or later start causing intermittent faults.

Adobe,

My mill conversion is complete. Since I use it mainly for prototype work, it isn't heavily used. For those who haven't seen reference to it before, it uses Elrod conversion components, ebay servos, pico-systems controllers and servo drivers, and EMC for software.

My present efforts are to cnc one of my lathes -- probably my Rivett. My plan is to build something like the Omniturn. They sell an attachment that is essentially an XY (I guess it is really an XZ) table that is fixed on the ways. It is intended for gang tooling which should be just what I need for light production of small items. So far, I've acquired ball screws for it on ebay. I'm in no hurry for this project.

An additional effort is to build a conversational interface for EMC (and to convert my mill over to EMC2). Again, this is a long term project which I hope to get in reasonable shape during my vacation in March. The conversational gcode generator will look function pretty much like the mach3 addons from newfangled solutions. So far, I still haven't found an easy way to generate the graphic background screens I need. I suspect it might be time for me to really learn Adobe Illustrator.

Regards,

Ken

RotarySMP. Ball Screws are "rolled" ( Rockford ) with double ball nuts. The primary ball nut has oversize ball nuts (.0002 and .0003, staggered) Using a good tenths dial indicator, with a rigid set up there is no backlash indicated.Had a neighbor help me put my 19 inch LeBlond chuck on the cross slide and still no backlash in either axis. Rigged up my Heidehiem DRO on the Z axis and tracked 28", still with the 19 inch chuck on the cross slide ( that thing must weigh over 150 lbs), and had an error of .0008 maxium , both directions.This test was done using a good grade of Way Lube.
I do not mean to advertise that this will be duplicated under cutting conditions, but there are some other factors : This "little" 12 x 30 lathe weighs 3200 lbs , was manufactured to be a very high precision "Tool Room Lathe" when the Machine Tool Industry in the US was a very viable industry. I purchased it UNUSED in 1969 ( Still in Cosmoline) at a US Government auction, indications are that the machine was manufactured in 1954-1956. Never did understand what the Federal Government was doing with these lathes ( and several mills from the same manufacture, all new also) except the rumor was they came from the weapons lab in New Mexico as "excess".
I have maintained the lathe to my high standards, and in fact had it and a small high precision mill in my office to do prototyping on new equipment we manufactured. ( Got some strange looks on that deal, carpeted office , expensive panaling and a lathe and mill in the middle..saved a lot of time though)No one has ever used the lathe but me.
I spent the bucks on the fixed angular bearings and mounts. Used the Rockford fixed angular mount and Barden Precision Angular Bearings ( I used the regualr bearings for the simple end) Barden simply has the best precision bearings for the Machine tool industry of any one, if your willing to pay. I must agree with NC Cams about the importance of the fixed end bearings for precision. Any way, that is how I approached this retro fit, and in fact after use, if the machine develops unacceptable back lash , I will machine another set of ball screws.The Desk CNC system will compensate for backlash only, no tracking for wear in the ballscrew, but being new and hobby use, I would think the ballscrews will out live me by a lot..
Wow as to the solder..I have a friend who has an almost new Fadel 2040.
(2003) and asked for help with a ball screw/bearing coolant problem ( had to sleeve the X axis ball screw, as the bearing had turned on the shaft..coolant got in the oiled portion due to no oil getting to the end bearings..a real mess, and for a $90,000 machine, just really unacceptable ) During teardown, I noticed that the ends of most elec. wires had been soldered..so I thought I would be smart and duplicate..Not right uh ? Said I was a "Electrically challenged".Do you think I should go back and restrip and not solder ? Like the ends of the wires in the ribbons between the Desk CNC Controller and the servo amps, I soldered all of the ends, then put them in the servo amplifier ..?
I have plenty of wire to redo, what do you experts think ?
I would rather be right than try to chase