How many people use their dremel for their DIY router?

Hi - I am making my own DIY routing table from the http://www.bigbearcnc.com/ plans. Difference I am making mine bigger. Thinking either 3x4 or 4x4. Not 100% sure yet.

A lot of DIY plans show using a dremel. A lot of people post saying "Don't use the dremel, use a router." So I am curious on how many people use a dremel and how well does it work? And what inexpensive router do you recommend?

EDIT: I would like to use my 10mm milling bits.

Thanks for the help - SS

Don't see one of these big routers mounted on these DIY plans:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Decker-1-1-4-HP-Router-8-5A-Cat-No-7613_W0QQitemZ300004505063QQihZ020QQcategoryZ20781QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hello, I am bigbearcnc.

I am currently prototyping a new design using the grizzly 1 hp router. Looks promising. Hold 1/4" bits, but I purchased a 1/8" adapter so I can use all the dremel and rotozip bits as well. Plus it has variable speed. All for about $80.

Hello, I am bigbearcnc.

I am currently prototyping a new design using the grizzly 1 hp router. Looks promising. Hold 1/4" bits, but I purchased a 1/8" adapter so I can use all the dremel and rotozip bits as well. Plus it has variable speed. All for about $80.

Cool -

Plans are nice and easy to follow. I have learned a lot just getting the stuff together I need. How soon will the router be available?

I was thinking of picking up a dremel for some PC boards I have to cut and drill. But for anything larger I can't see going with anything less than a 2HP router. From the looks of things I'm not sure your plans will support a big router mounting bracket though.

As for the plans -
I think they are designed around something the size of a dremel. But from what I have started, they are easy to chage sizes to allow for other/bigger things.

So far my motors and controllers are coming from EBay. They have 1/4" shaft.
Got guide screws for ACME 1/2-10 threaded rods from EBay coming.

I ordered couplers from here:
http://www.dumpstercnc.com/acme_couplers.html

The threaded rods from here:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=408-0220&PMPXNO=942694

Now trying to figure out if I can save some money by using tubing instead of solid rods. Then need guide bearings for them. Will most likely go with 1/2" since my threaded rod is 1/2". For now might just make a 3x4 table. I really want to make a 4x4 but not enough room for it. Figure can always change and expand later. Also need to decide if to use the dremel and if not the dremel then what.....

I hate to rain on your parade, but that design will not scale to 4'. A 4' router is a huge diy challenge. I know. I built one. I don't even like the idea of using unsupported rods on a small machine, and it would be a waste of money and energy to try to make a big machine with them. Also, those gantry uprights are gonna flop all over the place.

There are 2 ways to make a 4' diy router that I know of:

1. Use expensive stuff
2. Use creative engineering

You can find plenty of examples of the second method in the build logs here.

Been surfing the build logs -
Some are easy to follow and others are not.

To get the layout started - I have some solid rods but not the best of quality. For now can contrinue building until I have the money to replace them with better. They are 1/2 round and can make a table that will be right over 3"x3". These rods are right over 40-43" or so. Need to cut them same length.

As for supports for the rods - I do have some ideas. Not sure which way to go. Seems like so many people here have great ideas and been learning from them. Some are not as easy to follow what they are doing though....

Hi -
Will anyone help me with this -
Is this good to use for the guide rods?
http://www.onlinemetalsupply.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=96027&c=706466&i=183273526

Not sure what grade of metal to use. Thanks

There was a video o here about 2 years ago of a roughly 18x24 router that used 1/2" unsupported rod. with one finger, it would rock back and forth about 2 inches, making it vitually unuseable. Like Steve says, I wouldn't build that any bigger than the plans call for, it will flex far too much.

And, if you want a 3x4 machine, a dremel is way too underpowered. It will limit your cutting speeds so muc, it will seem almost painful as you wait for it to move across your table.

I have been trying to figure out what other router to use that is inexpensive and easily to mount.

As for the support - I looked at Joe's 2006 plans and got some ideas on how to support the rods. I am going to support them - just looking at some other ideas from other threads to get ideas. Just using thes eplans to get me started and a better understand where to start.

Thanks -

What about the link for the 1/2" rods I showed above?
http://www.onlinemetalsupply.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=96027&c=706466&i=183273526

Are they good enough for what I am trying to do? It is something I can afford.... That is a big plus... Thanks again for everyone's help....

i didnt build my machine but know that with 1/4x20 rod on the z-axis - i cant get much bigger without a new z-axis that has skate bearings, and the builder indicated it would not take a 'laminate roouter' --- .. so the the nice quick and lightness ( though noisy) availability is why its popular, not to mention the 1/8" bits for things like pcb's ...

the problem is it cant cut much -- no deep cuts in hard material,, takes a long time to cut because it can only take a little at a time...

Mr. Session,

What kind of machine are you looking to build, as in what do you want to do with it? I peeked at your web site and it seems like you already have a mill and a fairly complete shop and have done some CNC’ing. You can use your bits on your mill.

Again, don’t use unsupported pipes or rods. Especially if you want to enlarge the cutting envelope. The rods you pointed to are small, that is why they are cheap. I would not recommend them for horizontal rails, but they would work fine for the vertical Z.

Take a second look at Joe’s, Lionclaw’s, and Madclicker’s machines. You seem to have some building skills and these are really not that hard to build. (I am allowed to say that.)

CNCs are like boats. Every foot larger will cost you half again as much.

Steve

Yeah -

I want to make my own for the know how. I have a complete setup other than I hate that my mill is so small. Only good for small motor mounts and a-arm type stuff. Can't do a complete chassis of a car or something --- BTW for those who have not seen my site. I am talking 1/25 through 1/5 scale RC cars. ---

I like making RC car parts and now I am into robotics. I want to make my own PCB boards and robotic and RC parts. Also want to do some wood working. So anything from wood, pcb, aluminum....

Right now taking the plans shown above and modifying it for my needs. How thick of bar should I use for X & Y axis? And can I get away with tubing instead of solid bar? Will have like a 3 x 4 square. As for support, I think after look at Joe's plan, I have a good idea to do with the skate bearings... That guy is a genius.

Not seen the other names you mentioned yet.

Thanks -

If I were to build my machine all over (and I might) I would use Joe's double pipe skate bearing design for the long axis. I would change the way the pipe is supported, but I think 2 pipes have advantages. I would use Spalm's (Steve's) v-bearing design for the gantry axis. For the z I would use hardened rod and bearings that you can get cheap on ebay. I really like my torsion box gantry and think it is the main reason I get the accuracy I do. I think everyone would agree that a well constructed torsion box cutting bed is the way to go for a low buck machine.

CNC's are like boats in several respects except one, I always refered to my 26' hydrosport as a big hole in the water that I throw money into. B.O.A.T = Break Out Another Thousand

Love the B.O.A.T. thing... Funny and true at same time....

Madclicker - I was thinking about using something similar for the supports. Love the way he used the skate bearings. Seeing his and some of the others here, has given me some great ideas for what to try.

Still trying to find a very inexpensive router for this thing. Not something to physically big that it won't support the weight either. Wish there was a good one to use about same physical size as my dremel....

Check out the Bosch Colt.

Thanks -

See a few on EBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Bosch-PR10E-Colt-Single-speed-Palm-Router_W0QQitemZ120022585261QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20781QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe next payday or two I can get one of those....

You'll probably get then cheeper if you go straight to Bosch and get a refurb. I've had a refurb angel grinder for a while and I'm very happy with it. I've also heard very good things here about their refurb routers

http://bosch.cpotools.com/routers/palm_routers/

Need help again -

What do you use for bearings for the leadscrew? My leadscrew is the 1/2-10 ACME Threaded rod. Do I get bearings with a 1/2" center or do I need one a little bigger in the center?

Thanks -

Bearings

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-R8-ZZ-Sealed-Bearings-1-2-x-1-1-8-Bearing-0-5-ID_W0QQitemZ7593149107QQihZ017QQcategoryZ31485QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

they also sell angular thrust bearings which would be better, but much more costly.

Cool thanks -
I was not sure if the 1/2" shaft would fit direct into the 1/2" hole in bearing. Was thinking it might of been tight fit. Thanks again.

I used 5/8 and 3/4 rod with 5/8 and 3/4 flange bearings with success.

A tight fit is preferred. I used 1/2" screw with two 1/2" bearings recessed into either side of the wood. I had to file down the screw to fit. You don’t want any wobble here. Use a double nut and tighten them on the outsides of the two bearings, pressing them against the wood to make sure the bearings are doing the spinning. This will also ‘fix’ the outside of the bearing to the frame, and with it the screw, so it can not do any front to back shifting (called backlash).

Flange bearings will also fix the bearings to the frame.

Steve

Those bearings fit the acme rod. It's what I use. Listen to steve palm regarding preloading. He knows what he is talking about.

look closely at steve's picture. AThat is what you want on the motor end. on the other end you have a single bearing/compression screw/2 nuts. Compression screw can be replaced with 2 belleville washers oriented facing 180 degrees apart, but the spring is probably better.

search for some of my old posts over the past month or 2, I have it diagrammed with bellevilles and posted as a pdf file. I lost the drawing in a HD failure at work.

Those bearings fit the acme rod. It's what I use. Listen to steve palm regarding preloading. He knows what he is talking about.


Thanks - I bought a set of those bearings. Appreciate everone's help. :D

When buying wood for building a routing table - What quality of wood do you buy? Outdoor, Indoor - There are many kinds of wood. I do not want mine to warp or bend. And I was looking at the sealant isle of the DIY Store and there are many kinds of that too. Not sure what to get.

Thanks

USE MDF ONLY! Any other wood with grain will move significantly! Use clear polyurethane, or clear acrylic to seal the wood.

Had no clue what MDF was, so looked it up:
Medium Density Fibreboard (MDF) is a wood based composite material that draws on the usage of wood fibres, rather than particles or veneers to produce board or sheet products. It is typically made as a board type product, though it's use in mouldings and increasing use as a structural product will see beam type products proliferate. It is replacing the use of particleboard in uses such as furniture manufacture, cabinet making, joinery, craft work and flooring. Its advantages include high strengths (MOR of 80 MPa and MOE of 3000 MPa), ease of machining, good weathering properties, and the ability to be made from a wide variety of fibrous products (An Environmental plus).

So this is what most people use?

Thanks -

Think of it this way, MDF is like fancy, thick, tough cardboard. It has approximately 1/3 the structural strength of baltic birch plywood of the same thickness. But it is dimensionally more stable and when built up into torsion box is plenty strong for this application.

It generates a lot of fine dust when you work it, so wear a mask. Also, the glues used in making it aren't good for you, More reason to wear a mask.

MDF does not react well to water. what I did to seal my machine is 1 liberal coat of "Killz" with mold inhibitor (my machine is in the basement) followed by a coat of spray enamel in the color of your choice. Mine is blue, the girlfriends machine is metalic purple (I talked her out of pink).

I have painted MDF before, it looks better than poly, but I wasn't smart enough to seal it first. The mdf soaked up all the paint and expanded a bit, not good. Take sdantonio's advice and killz it first, then paint. Or you could just seal it. Poly will work too, that is what I do on my MDF now.

THanks for the help!@

So far my bearings, screw rods and couplers have shown up. Now need the motors to arrive.

Also need to know how thick of a guide rail is recommended? 1/2" or 1" or what? And can it be a tube instead of solid rod?

Thanks