I have received a CNC kit from Syil for my X3 mill.

I know there are many people on the forum who are thinking about the options
for retrofiting CNC to these mills so I will log my experiences which may help
others in their decision making.

With Syil there is the option of buying the mill already fitted with their kit.
I was not confident like many others with the process of importing a machine.
Customs, duty, taxes and no experience with doing all that was a disincentive for me.
Your confidence or experience may be different to mine ;)
Also I was able to buy the machine localy for a very good price.

The kit came in a flimsy cardboard box that I would not be game to ship
ballscrews etc. in, however they made it unscathed so no problems :p

As it worked out the box came through our customs with no duty or tax.
In Australia these things can be a bit hit or miss. Yours might be different :D

Dealing with Syil and language differences can be interesting but they have been helpful and enthusiastic.
The only way I had to pay was by internatinal bank transfer, PayPal would have made things much easier.

To be continued :)

I decided on the Syil offering over others that I could find because they had what seemed to me to be the best ballsrews,
double preloaded nuts, dual angular contact bearings and looked like good solid motor mounts.

As it turned out just after ordering this kit I discovered one newly available in my home town that looks promising :mad:
However that is for someone else to report on.

Syil advertised this kit as having everything needed to do the full installation just as if they had done it. However it is not quite so.

I am not writing to critisise Syil, just that people need to know what is not included as well as what is so they can make informed decisions.

No documentation or instructions of any kind.
Syil were quite surprised that I should ask about this and are putting something together for me as I write.

No wiring to conect steppers with drivers. Syil says they don't know how long is needed so can't supply??????????

No gas spring.

No mounting brackets or actuating tabs for limit switches (or instructions even where to mount them)

More coming :)

OK I figured out how to atach photos properly so here goes.

This is what I got from Syil

Pic 1. Ballsrews and mounts. This is what you would get with the basic kit exept no stepper motors

Pic 2. Steppers. Two Nema 23 and one Nema 34

Pic 3. Printer port cable and limit switch (three of these)

Pic 4. Motor covers

More photos of bits

Pic 5. Control box

Pic 6. Monitor keyboard arm

Pic 7. Loom tube

No gas spring.
The pics look very nice :) The gas spring and the 40mm longer Y-axis were not part of the original conversion. They were added later after Lou's and Ron's dealings with Syil and there was a minor price increase to that effect -- me thinks. Did you order your kit over a couple of weeks ago?

Ed I was the one who asked for 40mm longer "Y" screw and started the ball rolling on that :)

Cost me $20 more.

I did expect the gas spring was included. In fact I was told it was.

However as I said it is not my intention to winge, only share my experience with what I got. :D

Thanks for sharing Greolt! Looks like good stuff!

Can I ask how much you paid and how long it took to get your kit?

Thanks!

-Jeff

I have asked this in another thread but will ask here as well

LouCetrangelo or CrazyRonny could you do me a favour and take a photo of the X axis motor mounting bracket without the red cover on.

I am sure Syil have given me the wrong bracket. It is not even close to fitting.

Thanks, Greolt

Looks good man. Had I known Syil sold a kit....:)

Does this kit work on the Grizzly? It would sure make for a nice quick conversion. I'm going through hell compared to this. Haha.

Lou has posted some photos for me in another thread. Thanks again Lou :cheers:

The bracket on the X axis has been machined back to front :frown:

Now I need to try to convince Syil of this and get another one. Language can be a bit of a hurdle :)

becuase we think it is easy to install and buy our conversion kits friend must deep konw the X3 much,so we do not provide the instuction paper,becuase every one have different requirment.

we have been take all install pic again,and right now just fully time to tranlater,hehe,we are very sorry for the instuction paper matter.but we really have some clinets have been install it and converted X3 in very well and faster.

ok,Greolt,just for this week,oK,we are in translate language for you.
Syil

let me explain why we can not help client to connect the cable from the step motor to driver,becuase this procession must be finish after some base parts installration ,then can be connect,also,some clinets require different step motor driver on differnt axis.so,that is why we don`t connect the cable.

You can see what I mean about language hurdles :) Enthusiastic and helpfull but.....

Steppers, Break out board and stepper drivers all have no indentification on them and I have asked for the technical documents for each of them.

For example the stepper drivers have a set of dip switches and a trimpot with no indication of the settings or what they do.

I need to communicate that one of the motor brackets has been machined back to front. No good so far but I'll keep on trying :D

we are in tranlate for you,soonly,hehe.
syil

Thanks Syil. That's great :cheers:

I hope it will be tech type info, I don't need instructions on how to bolt the bits together
(although I wish some of the bolt holes would line up)

Did you understand that the plate holding the motor mount on the X axis is machined back to front?

Also you sent me some photos showing where to mount the nice little limit actuating tabs but I did not get those nice little tabs or mounts in the kit. :o

Give me a break about the language barrier. When you call your credit card company you aren't exactly speaking to John Smith from Connecticut. :)

What are you having trouble with? I didn't have instuctions from cncfusion. :stickpoke

What are you having trouble with? I didn't have instuctions from cncfusion. :stickpoke
Point taken jl123 :p I meant no offence.

Thanks for your kind offer. Can you tell me with the driver in the photo what the dip switch settings are for 10 microsteps?

Thanks Greolt

Thanks for sharing Greolt! Looks like good stuff!
Can I ask how much you paid and how long it took to get your kit?
Thanks!
-Jeff
Jeff it took about 4 weeks to get the order together. They're fairly busy with orders I think.
Freight was only about a week but I paid quite a bit for air freight.
Parcels into Australia can be luck of the draw whether they charge duties or just let it through. I was lucky this time :)

You really need to ask Syil about prices as they may have varied since I paid

Hehe, I didn't mean to call you out on it. I just don't think thier business will suffer because of that. They are working on a US rep anyways. They have a good thing going for them.

I don't know why cncfusion doesn't have any posted instructions. Even step by step pictures would have made things quicker. They have good email support though.

Keep it up. :cool:

Ok I started with the Z axis. This was the easiest in that not much altering was required.

The only thing that needs machining is to drill and tap six holes for the ballnut to fit the existing mounting block.

You can see in the first pic that I turned up a spacer to locate the ballnut centrally in the exsting hole.
Hole is 30mm and nut is 28mm. Not needed I guess I just found it easier to keep things aligned as I marked the holes and then torqued up the bolts.

Third pic and it is assembled. The top support uses the existing bearing.

Last pic the two bolts went in without elongating the holes. The two tapered pins did not go in as those holes did not line up.
I reckon it will be fine without them as the support sits with its bum down hard on the motor bracket.
If I decide otherwise later I can tap these and put two more bolts in.

The grub screw in the flex coupler is poor and a new hex key just turned in it so I will replace and may put another at 90 degrees.

This braket and setup looks good and solid to me and well designed.

The only negative I have is to do with the machining of the screw ends.
At first I thought the screw must be a bit bent but on closer investigation where it has been turned down on the ends
it has runout. .005 at the bottom and .010 at the top :rolleyes:

The brackets that connect this to the head will have to absorb this I suppose. not great but what do you do?

Last pic is obvious.

All in all this part of the install went pretty easily.

I seriously am quite jealous. Those nuts and screws are much nicer. :(

Now to my problem with the X axis mount.

I spose it's undersatndable that people are a little sceptical when I say the motor bracket has been machined backward.

The pic shows Lou's machine in the bottom (thanks Lou)

Mine is the one on top (now thats an idea, maybe they'll breed :p )

As you can see it is backwards.

I can dismantle and flip it around but then the countebores for the bolt heads will be on the wrong side.

So far Syil just think I don't know which end of the spanner to hold. I guess you can't blame them for that :D

Greolt,

So at this point, it appears that you have issues with the X-axis mount. And you defiently need documentation on setting up the stepper motors with the drivers (microstepping and current setting).

It sound like Syil, would do well to contract with you to put together a "Installation Guide" and to give you enough technical support in order to do so. This could eliminate the problems that your experiencing and keep a good product from turning sour.

Just an idea, hehe!!

Ron

Today I did the Y axis fit up. Bit more work in this one for reasons you will see if interested enough to read on :D

The first pic. There is a bit of this to do if you want things to line up with any sort of precision.
Now you could use a round file in a pinch but often the counterbore must be elongated also.

Pic two. I had to machine a small amount off the top of the ballnut mount as it would not physically fit in the space
under the saddle. The alterantive was to take some out of the casting. I chose not to, it's light enough already.

Pic three. You can see the circlip and washer on the screw end. In the event of a limit switch malfunctioning for
whatever reason (electrical, software or anything else) this is what must act as the hard stop.
Not up to it in my opinion. Circlip is very light, washer is too small. If it fails all the balls are no longer in the nut but on the ground :eek:

I decided on the hard stop you can see in the pic. Hopefully it will never come in to play :rolleyes:

EDIT: I noticed the pics don't stay in the order I posted them but you can figure it out :)

Now the fun bit :p

If you have been following along with the discussion on Y axis travel issues you will know what I am on about.

My X3 mill came from the factory with 145mm Y travel. Spec sheets from Seig say it is 160mm.
Syil settled on 120mm after retrofit. I asked for the screw to be made 40mm longer on my order.

Now here is the rub. The way Syil did it, adding the 40mm to the screw meant that the extra travel was added to the
movement of the tabel away from the column.

Now bear with me here :) when the table is all the way closest to the column the spindle centerline is about about 30mm inside
the outside edge (closest to the operator) of the table. Make sense so far?

With the extra 40mm screw length the table when at maximum distance away from the column now the spindle is 30mm outside
the inside edge of the table. Or off the table by that much. Also the dovetail is only partialy engaged.

Diagrams would be better but I can't draw :D :D........hehe as Syil reps always say.

If you want to see what I did about it you'll have to wait for the next post :withstupi

In the first pic you will see the first part of the solution.
20mm thick spacer block was made to bring the Syil bearing / stepper mount away fom the saddle.

Second pic shows the other part of the solution.
You can just see that the back end of the screw was coming up against the column.
So I machined out a recess for it. It's about 12mm deep.

Now I have 170mm travel from hard stop to hard stop.
With limit switches I am hoping to have 160mm which will be from one table edge to the other.

The other thing to take care of was what Syil reps refer to as fritters getting on the screw which protrudes from under the saddle.

The last pic shows what I did. It slips over the ballnut which is stationary on one end and is fixed to the column on the other.
The screw travels freely inside.

EDIT: I don't know how to make the photos stay in the order I posted them.

hi Greolt

what part of Australia are you from suburb/state ?

q1 . What software do you plan to use on the cnc_X3mill conversion

q2 . what stepper motors and drivers does the kit use ?

q3 . what PC interface ( motherboard or braekout box ) does this kit use ?

cheers

PS : I'm from Melbourne

When writing about the Z axis in an earlier post I said I was dismayed at the runout of the turned ends on the screw.

One pic shows that screw fitted up in the column.

I went back for another look to see if I could do anything about it and discovered what is shown in the other pics.

This is the top end of the screw that rides in the bearing at the top of the column.

This is where I had measured in exess of .010" runout of the screw.

Obviously someone botched the turning of the end and then made a bush to cover it up.
Trouble is the bush is not a sufficiently tight fit and it has turned.

You can even see just looking at the photo that the small turned bit is not true. So as the bush rotates so it gets runout.

Now what to do???? Any ideas.

I think a replacement is in order but I don't know if Syil will agree with me or not :stickpoke

hi Greolt

what part of Australia are tou from suburb/state ?

q1 . What software do you plan to use on the cnc_X3mill conversion

q2 . what stepper motors and drivers does the kit use ?

q3 . what PC interface ( motherboard or braekout box ) does this kit use ?

cheers

PS : I'm from Melbourn
Q1 Dunno yet :)

Q2 No identification on them at all. No info came with them either. I am seeking that info from Syil at present.

Q3 Same as above.

Geelong

hi

Ok fear enough about the questions

there is a guy here in Greensborough doing a full X3 cnc conversion kit
Mach 3 by http://www.machsupport.com/artsoft/index/index.htm is a very nice piece of software and very nicely priced , you might want to go to there site and have a look

There is a lot of interesting reading on that sites forum and some very good links sites to visit.

You can download a working version , will work up to 1000 lines of G-code

The ball screw that is botched up i would true the end of the shaft in and make a press fit bush and pin it also and the true the outside diameter to the right size that you need

Just curious if there is any CNC_club thing in Melbourne Victoria , if not maybe would be a opportunity to start one I'm just 35 minutes away from you

If your on msn messenger add me stalbansefi_1@hotmail.com if you decide not to i will not be offended

cheers

......... one I'm just 35 minutes away from you
Wow you must have a fast car :eek:

Yeah I have downloaded Mach3. Haven't had time for a good look yet.

Sorry I just realised you are not in Greensborough. Maybe your car is not so hot :o

I have had a good look at that site.
As I mentioned in my first post I first saw it just after ordering from Syil :p

His kit looks good but I think Syil have the best screws and nuts.

Or at least I did think they had the best screws till tonight :mad: Look a couple of posts back.

Can you sent me a complete procession conversion working of your by emails ok?then we can sent some advise,those day we are move factory,very busy,and instuction still in design and prepare to print.

wait for your emails.

Syil

Woah, 10 thou of runout? Thats pretty bad. When centering a leadscrew for turning, never be satisfied with over .0005"
I'd push for a replacement

Wow you must have a fast car :eek:

Yeah I have downloaded Mach3. Haven't had time for a good look yet.

Sorry I just realised you are not in Greensborough. Maybe your car is not so hot :o

I have had a good look at that site.
As I mentioned in my first post I first saw it just after ordering from Syil :p

His kit looks good but I think Syil have the best screws and nuts.

Or at least I did think they had the best screws till tonight :mad: Look a couple of posts back.

hi

LOL yes have several fast cars

I have a few threads in here and in final stages of deciding who's electronics , stepper motors , servo motors ball screws , power supply and software to use on my lathe.

Once i have finished the lathe then i will be doing a slightly bigger milling machine than a X3 and a plasma table as well.

There a few other kits businesses offer that sponsor this forum and some don't sponsor this forum . Some are Here in Australia and some in the USA and UK.

And there are a lot of people making electronics that is reasonably priced , but the biggest obstacle to challenge is which kit or individual components to buy.

1. which software ?
2. serial port CNC_motherboard interface ?
3. stepper motors and size and brand ?
4. stepper motor derivers ?
5. servo motors and size and brand ? encoder type size ?
6. servo motor drivers ?
7. power supply ?
8. ball screws size , diameter/pitch , single nut twin nuts and brands
9. direct driven , toothed pulley and rubber belt drive , or gear driven rack/pinion , sprocket and chain and gearing 2:1 or higher or lower ratio , mounting brackets and end bearing supports and so on ?
10. Buy a retrofit kit or buy individual components ?

The commercial retrofit kits are way to expensive and some of the hobby complete kits are over priced .

Don't know about yourself but I'm new to all this and can't afford a whiz bang commercial OKUMA , MAZAK , HAAS or even the cheaper chi nesses models that are out there. So have selected to build something of my own.

I know it will not be as quick as a commercial unit nor as accurate as one and repeatability but for what i want to do with the 3 machine that i have in mind will be a lot easier and better than what i can do manually.

The biggest problem as beginners is making the right choice the first time otherwise it can blow out the budget put aside for the HOBBY PROJECT. And to start learning from mistakes can be very costly.

There are a lot of knowledgeable people in here.

QUESTION : on what basis did you make your decisions to purchase syil's kit ?

visit theses sites and have a look

www.homanndesigns.com this guy is in Melbourne also very helpful person

www.gimbal.com.au this guy is in Melbourne also

www.lowcostcncretrofits.com In AUstralia also PLUG AND PLAY SYSTEMS

www.cnckits.com.au/index Sieg X3 Mill CNC Conversion Kits - NC Conversion and Retrofit.this guy is in Melbourne also and his kit is very reasonably priced

www.rutex.com/home/index This guy is in Australia

www.cncteknix.com Australia crowd seem to have a very good system but not cheap. Very secretive and slow to answer questions i found them.


www.pmdx.com

www.machsupport.com/artsoft/links/links

www.truetex.com/servomod

www.imsrv.com/deskcnc

www.pro.com.sg/CNC-MINIMILL/MINIMILL

www.cnc4pc.com/index

www.cncfusion.com

www.cnckits.com.au

www.minitechcnc.com/Mills%20contents

www.imsrv.com/deskcnc

www.hobbycnc.com

www.homeshopcnc.com

www.industrialhobbies.com

www.kdntool.com/_sgt/f10000


Have searched and read a lot of material and there is more it is just a case of making the right choice , remember everyone is just after your hard earned dollars and dealing with overseas companys can be a bit annoying at times

good luck with your project , i will read this thread till the end

I am still interested in forming a Melbourne based or out your way CNC_HOBBY_GROUP , meet and decuss things on the cnc scene , I'm sure there would be other Australians in melbourne that would be interested in this group idea . Forming a group could lead to a buying group which would give us some buying power and getting better discounts on compoments. Just a idea.

cheers

Greolt,
I'm personally very disappointed in what Syil tried to slip to you. That ball screw should not have been shipped.

Syil, I hoped that you would provide a quality conversion kit for the X3, but when I see low quality work coming from you to a fellow machinist, I think you, maybe are only interested in making mony instead of providing a quality product.

We work hard for our money, and we do not like to be sold inferior products or to see our friends cheated with inferior products!!

Syil, If you make a quality product, we will gladly buy it, but if you sell crap, we don't need it and we don't want it.

You have an opportunity to make this right by replacing this ball screw and giving us assurance that you will never sell inferior products like this again.

I am sure that others share my concern.

Ron

I was pretty dissapointed myself Ron, I share that concern.
Overall the kit looks good, nice quality stuff it seems from the pictures. I can't say I like the idea of milling away at the casting for installing a Z axis though. The kit would be more attractive if you utilize a method which does not require modification to the mill.

Please I don't want this thread to be a bashing of Syil.

All up I am impressed with the Ballsrew, Nuts and Bearings part of the kit. No comment on the rest yet as I haven't got that far.

Most of the mods I have had to make most likely stem from variations in the base machine from the factory.
And also my desire to retain the full Y axis travel. Those are my mods.

I am only pointing these things out so that people will know what to expect if going with Syil.

Now obviously I have a couple of problems.
The screw end, X axis bracket made back to front and some bits that were promised left off the order.
But I fully expect those things will be quickly remedied by Syil.

So lets give them a chance hey :wave:

Greolt,
You have a good attitude, and I am sure that Syil will make it right. We just want to see your machine up and running and you happy with it. You are right that we must give Syil a second chance.

Hang in there,

Ron

Point taken jl123 :p I meant no offence.

Thanks for your kind offer. Can you tell me with the driver in the photo what the dip switch settings are for 10 microsteps?

Thanks Greolt

Hi Greolt,

A while ago I found this document on the website from Syil:

http://koeienuiers.nl/document_library/CNCstppermotordriver.pdf

I am not sure if you have a similar driver but you might want to check it out.

Patrick

Thats great. Thank you Patrick.

I have asked for this and the same for breakout board a few times.

So far Syil think I am asking for instructions to assemble the screws, mounts etc. :rolleyes:

That is pretty much done already but info to hook up electricaly is desirable right now.

Thanks again, Greolt

PS, you wouldn't happen to have one for the break out board by any chance :)

I guess HF, Grizzly and all the others have got the quality market sown up. Duh.

You seem a little bit over critical, what’s your specific problem? :wee:

Regards
Phil


Greolt,
I'm personally very disappointed in what Syil tried to slip to you. That ball screw should not have been shipped.

Syil, I hoped that you would provide a quality conversion kit for the X3, but when I see low quality work coming from you to a fellow machinist, I think you, maybe are only interested in making mony instead of providing a quality product.

We work hard for our money, and we do not like to be sold inferior products or to see our friends cheated with inferior products!!

Syil, If you make a quality product, we will gladly buy it, but if you sell crap, we don't need it and we don't want it.

You have an opportunity to make this right by replacing this ball screw and giving us assurance that you will never sell inferior products like this again.

I am sure that others share my concern.

Ron

...
You can just see that the back end of the screw was coming up against the column. So I machined out a recess for it. It's about 12mm deep.
...

Greolt,

Is that a plate you drilled or did you machine the column itself. I ask because if I were to make the mod myself I would not have a second mill to machine the column, but I could cut a plate without one.

Thanks!

---

EDIT: Doh... never mind I see it is the column itself :(

.

Phil,
You are right, I was being a little over critical, and as Greolt pointed out, Syil needs a little time to correct a couple QA issues with the X axis motor/bearing mount and the Z axis ball screw.

By the way, How's the Tormach working out?

Take care,

Ron

When writing about the Z axis in an earlier post I said I was dismayed at the runout of the turned ends on the screw.

One pic shows that screw fitted up in the column.

I went back for another look to see if I could do anything about it and discovered what is shown in the other pics.

This is the top end of the screw that rides in the bearing at the top of the column.

This is where I had measured in exess of .010" runout of the screw.

Obviously someone botched the turning of the end and then made a bush to cover it up.
Trouble is the bush is not a sufficiently tight fit and it has turned.

You can even see just looking at the photo that the small turned bit is not true. So as the bush rotates so it gets runout.

Now what to do???? Any ideas.

I think a replacement is in order but I don't know if Syil will agree with me or not :stickpoke



1:we offer all ballscrew in 100% new and not refurbish.
2:to make a bash to cover on the ballscrew it is reason for be suit the bearing.
3:because every Sieg x3 some time have different end ballscrew desk bearing.so,that is why our conversion kit ballscrew will have a cover on the end.but complete machines do not have.because we can buy a suitable bearing for it.
4.the bearing right now very hardly find in our market for the ballscrew to connect seig end bearing desk.so that is another big reason why we need make a cover by ourself to install on the ballscrew.
but in future will be not have, we have been contact many bearing factroy to supply us a correctly bearing.
4.you said the cover not fit on the ballscrew.it is maybe us working not carefully,and make cover not good.

ok,please provide us your ballscrew and bearing size,then we will sent a new cover for you.or?

also,i hope Mr Patrick can help us explain more technical and post your working on here.becuase he was also buy our conversion kits and install it in very well.i see his working on here:
http://koeienuiers.nl/
We will also provide the instruction for every clients in future,right now the PDF instucion have been fnisih,just prepare to print.

about our working some time have mistake or problem,hope everybody to find and advise to us.it is big help for our future working.we need everyone good suggestion.

also,i just get the news from factory,we have been purchase another kind ballscrew which correctly size can be suit for bearing on the sieg.so from now,our all conversion kit ballscrew will be not need a cover.

Thanks for everyone suggestion.
Syil.

Syil I have sent you private email however you seem happy to discuss this on the forum.

I will clarify a couple of problems I have.

First the bracket which holds the X axis bearing and motor mount has been made backwards.
See photo. Bottom one is Lou Cetrangelo's machine. Top one is mine. You can see the mistake. I need the correct bracket.

Second is the screw for the Z axis. Photo shows the top end of the screw.
The small spigot has been turned off centre. You can even see the runout in the photo.
Then a bush has been pressed on and turned. Probably true.
However the bush is not a tight fit and has turned resulting in runout.
The bearing ID is 12mm a very common size, not difficult to find.
This screw will need to be replaced.

Apart from these two issues the kit has gone together very well. The only thing left to do is wire up the drives.

I have asked for tech info on the stepper drives and the cnc controller board. If you would send them that would be great. Thanks


EDIT: people keep telling me they can't see the difference in the brackets
Someone please tell me I'm not losing my marbles :p
Those holes must be at least a quarter inch different.....Aren't they??? (wedge)

ok,i will sent the info to your asap.also i sent emails to you,please check.

Thank you.
Syil.

Syil provide in the full kit three nifty little photo interuptors for the homing or limit switches.

They are made up with the necessary resistor soldered in line and a length of cable and a connector
which plugs straight into the break out board.

I think normaly you also get some little tabs to do the interupting but mine got forgot.
No big deal I just made some of my own.

Now the question I would have liked to discuss before doing this with some experienced people is about limits or homing.

I have decided for now to go with limits on each end of the Y travel. (160mm)
According to the Mach3 help file, limits can be homing as well.

For the X I went for both limits and a separate switch for the homing.
That comes into play about one third of the way along the travel. (420mm)

It will be fairly easy to adjust or alter altogether this setup if I find it not the best option.

Don't know whether I need one on the Z or not.
I have in mind to make a tool height setting switch. They probably have a proper name???

The pics are of the Y setup. X is the same except double switches.

Tight fit :)But they will be well protected under there.

The effort modifying Syil's design on the Y axis has paid off. :)

See the pics of extent of travel. From one edge of the table to the other.

Now I just have to wait for the replacement bits from Syil to finish the rest.

Greolt,
You still have all of your marbles, I see the difference in the brackets, but it took me a minute.

Ron

Your stuff is looking good Greolt :)

I'm waiting on an answer from Syil to see if they can do the same mod you did with the Y axis. If they can't then it will be tough for me to do it. The idea of cutting that hole in the column with a plasma torch does not sound very attractive.

That "hole" is only 12mm deep and could be done with a hand drill at a pinch.

Probably more difficult with limited tools would be to make the spacer behind the motor bracket.

EDIT; on second thoughts if the column mod is too hard you could make the spacer 12mm thicker. It is 25mm on my mod.

EDIT 2 :
No that would not work. I knew there was a reason I didn't do that. :)
You would still lose some travel as the washer / stop on the end of the screw hit the back end of the nut.
You'll just have to do what I did :p

for the inputs about your kit. I did too purchased the mechanical kit from Syil. Also received it in a carboard box I would not have dare to send the stuff in....Syil might think about improving this. Easy and not expensive!

Syil did exactly what I told them to do about the shipping instructions. My stuff came through the custom, as expected with 20% VAT charges for France, so you'd better talk to them to tell them to enclose the right shipping infos before sending... ;)

I will start to put together the kit with my X3 soon, and I was expecting the sort of mods you had to do. Was also expecting some more mods about the 40mm screw extension.

I am however a bit disapointed by your Z screw. I will check mine...

I will Keep you posted.

One question : Do you have to machine the base of the mill to fit the Z stepper?

Regards,

Olivier.

Bonjour Olivier,
Same for me about the cardboard box, it was damaged but everything was Ok inside, please people from Syil you have to improve this.
About your base, yes you will have to machine it, same for me.
Check the message 20 on this forum, the excellent Greolt has posted a pic about this, thank you Greolt for your job, iwill support you if I can.

Olivier I see jfmichel has answered your question for me.

Someone reported that they cut the base with a hacksaw and broke the piece out with a hammer. (be careful :D )
So it must be doable without a mill but much easier with one.

I still haven't been able to communicate to Syil that the Z screw has a serious problem. I'll keep trying.

And yes the cardboard box is a bit of a worry. Only time until a kit gets delivered with a bent ballscrew :stickpoke

I was going to report about this later but with others assembling now I will talk about the ballnut mount.

Be aware that the ballnut mounts on the X an Y axis are wire cut out of steel. Good and solid but.......

It has amazed me how acurate this wire cutting is. Having not seen it before.
Even the holes that have had threads tapped to mount the ballnut were not drilled but wire cut.

But the mounting surface is not square with the ballnut when fitted. This is not machined but wire cut.

You need to do a trial fit of the ballnut mount (with ballnut and screw) bolted hard to it's mounting position on the
casting (base for Y and saddle for X) without the screw being constrained in their bearings either end.
Then check how the screw is sitting in alignment with the ground dovetail ways. Mine was out quite a bit.
Like about 3mm over the length of the X screw. :eek:

What I did was machine the mounting surface of the ballnut mount to be true with the ballnut as mounted.

It would be possible to not even realise this and just tighten up the mounts as they are.
Others will have done without realising for sure.
IMO the resultant strain placed on the screws and ballnuts through the misalignment would be a poor long term prospect.
May even result in binding.

If you doubt what I am saying just check the mount with an engineers square.
Easily seen by eye with a light behind.

Probably not explaining that well :o Past my bedtime now :wave:

Before I do I will repeat that it is not my intention to critisize or denigrate Syil's kit.
I think it is solid and well designed (except for the Y travel issue) and was intending to leave this point until sumarising later.

I am just pointing out a couple of "gotchas" to attend to as you fit it up.

Wow who's the old wind bag with the long boring posts?? :D :D :D

Just a photo to hopefully make a little clearer what I the old wind bag was talking about :o

This pic shows where you would most easily see the misalignmnt.

This has been fixed but before you could see in this situation one end of the screw sitting higher than the other.

Ed from NY has asked me for more detail on my "Y" travel mod.

I think it is all pretty clear but I have the advantage of looking at the bits not just photos :) So here are some more pics.

The spacer block is 20mm thick. The recess in the column is 12mm deep.
The aluminium cover is just my idea of a cover for the exposed screw. It was just a bit of stuff lying around.

It must be stressed this whole mod is only aplicable because I got my Y screw made 40mm longer than Syil standard.

Now hopefully that will put this one to bed :)

Greolt,
What is wire cut, is that like EDM (and I forget what EDM stands for)?

Ron

Greolt,
The far end of the Y ballscrew is it floating or is it riding in a bushing or bearing? I'm just wondering, because with the tormach, I believe that all of the ballscrews are floating on one end. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I know that one concern with floating a ballscrew is that during high speed rapids the ballscrew can whip ( saw this when turningdown my 5/8 inch ballscrews!!).

All that to ask, if I convert a X3, any reason I can't just cut the Y ball screw so it's say .125 inches short of the column and let it float. I don't have a X3 in front of me, so let me know if you think that would work. May be there is something that I'm not thinking about.

Ron

Ron I have never seen this process. Wire cut is the term Syil use to describe their parts.

I take it it's some sort of cutting method not unlike laser or plasma cutting.

But with a wire I guess :rolleyes:

EDM might be a better description. :confused:

As I said the finnish is remarkable. They even cut the 3mm hole that have then been tapped for 4mm bolts.

The problem is in this case that it is not perfectly square.

Perhaps some one else with knowledge may be able to explain.

Greolt,
The far end of the Y ballscrew is it floating or is it riding in a bushing or bearing? I'm just wondering, because with the tormach, I believe that all of the ballscrews are floating on one end. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I know that one concern with floating a ballscrew is that during high speed rapids the ballscrew can whip ( saw this when turningdown my 5/8 inch ballscrews!!).

All that to ask, if I convert a X3, any reason I can't just cut the Y ball screw so it's say .125 inches short of the column and let it float. I don't have a X3 in front of me, so let me know if you think that would work. May be there is something that I'm not thinking about.

Ron
The Y screw is not very long. It does float.

You could go to a lot of trouble and make a support but it's not needed nor a good idea.

Bear in mind this only turns at a slow speed. I had it going at 1500mm per min which is faster
than you want and it's only doing ??? revs at that speed (not much)

Remember also that the screw travels back and forth with the saddle. The ballnut stays still.

So the reason for the recess is that the screw will hit up against the column but only when
the saddle travels all the way in that direction.

If you shorten the screw you lose travel at the other extreme.

All of this is related to the length of the ballnut that Syil have used. Different ballnut, different situation.

hi Greolt

Just curious here , where did you buy the SEIG X3 mill from ? and how much did the mill cost you ?

cheers

Hafco in Melbourne. Recently moved to Dandenong.

I got the one off the floor for a bargain as they wanted to get rid of all floor
stock before moving showrooms.

They advertise the Super X3 for $2150 AUD and the X3 for $1695 AUD.

I have found you can allways bargain a bit better price with them.

Impatience got the better of me. :D
I have assembled my machine despite a couple of parts that still need to be replaced.

The wonky ballscrew in the column will need to be swapped out when Syil send it.

Also the X axis motor bracket will need replacing.
I had to counter bore the holes from the other side so I could fit it up.
The plate is 16mm thick and is now counter bored 7mm from each side leaving not very much.
It will be OK for test running but not for serious work.

Anyhow I really wanted to get it together and start learning the software side of things.

I have settled on Mach3 for controller software so I bought a license.
The 1000 line limit on the demo won't even run the famous Road Runner. :)
Mach looks a very capable bit of gear so I am happy with that.
Good to keep these blokes going on development by buying.

Havent sussed out what other software I will go with. Need to do a lot more research yet.

Just a couple of small things about the final fit up.

As I said earlier I went with seperate homing and limits on the X and limits which double as homing on the Y.

Nothing on th Z yet. I have in mind to make a switch to bring each newly mounted tool down
onto to set Z zero. Don't know the correct name.

So far with playing around I think homing only would have worked quite OK utilising soft limits.

Pic shows a computer hard drive connector used on each motor for ease of maintenance.
The cable is sold as sound hook up. It's four strand in a thick tough clear PVC covering so I went without the loom tubes.

The case that holds all the elctronics piggy back mounts on the existing enclosure on the back of the column.
It would have been good to have a removeble panel or door to get at driver settings with out removing
the whole thing each time. But I guess when everything is set you won't have to.

The existing estop on the front of the head was utilised to do double duty as controller estop.
It has a spare pole with NC contacts. Wiring was fed through existing large loom tube.

At first I was getting estop triggering whenever the Z axis motor moved but a ferrite sleeve on the wiring fixed this.
I believe setting a debounce time in Mach will do the same.

Jury is still out on the usefullness or other wise of the computer arm thingy.
It looks sexy but not sure how practical it will be.

I have asked Syil so many times for tech info on the drivers, motors and break out board that I have given up :p

Luckily Patrickm sent me two PDFs. So at least I got it all hooked up.
Would like to know the recomended microstep setting and amperage for each motor.
No identification markings at all on the motors.
I'm guessing about 2.5 amps on the nema 23s and 3 amps on the 34. Ten microsteps.

Hi Greolt,
I didn't see gas spring on your Z axis, Syil says now it's included in the conversion kit, I buy it too soon such as you I suppose, do you project to install one ?
Thanks
Jeff

Hi Greolt
A very objective and informative account of your conversion. Thanks for making the effort to share it with us.
That is one very nice looking mill you have.
regards,
Rod

The case that holds all the elctronics piggy back mounts on the existing enclosure on the back of the column.
It would have been good to have a removeble panel or door to get at driver settings with out removing
the whole thing each time. But I guess when everything is set you won't have to.

The existing estop on the front of the head was utilised to do double duty as controller estop.
It has a spare pole with NC contacts. Wiring was fed through existing large loom tube.

At first I was getting estop triggering whenever the Z axis motor moved but a ferrite sleeve on the wiring fixed this.
I believe setting a debounce time in Mach will do the same.

Jury is still out on the usefullness or other wise of the computer arm thingy.
It looks sexy but not sure how practical it will be.

I have asked Syil so many times for tech info on the drivers, motors and break out board that I have given up :p

Luckily Patrickm sent me two PDFs. So at least I got it all hooked up.
Would like to know the recomended microstep setting and amperage for each motor.
No identification markings at all on the motors.
I'm guessing about 2.5 amps on the nema 23s and 3 amps on the 34. Ten microsteps.

the replacement items will be sent to you in this week,becuase ballscrew we do not have stock now,just wait factroy delivery to us.wait for my reply.
thank you for your good advise.
Syil.

Hi Greolt,
I didn't see gas spring on your Z axis, Syil says now it's included in the conversion kit, I buy it too soon such as you I suppose, do you project to install one ?
Thanks
Jeff
It was included when I ordered just got forgotten. Syil have said they will send one.

I have heard it said it would be better without one as the weight helps keep the head rigid.

Not sure about that. There is no doubt the Nema 34 handles the head easily.

Can't help thinking with the ballscrew lifting from well behind the ways and the weight canter levered
a fair way out the front, it make the ways work very hard.

I saw someone with a Industrial Hobbies mill had put gas springs on in a way that carried weight from in front
and pulled the head slightly back towards the ways. I see some merit in that idea.

This all needs a bit more thought :p

The cable, pulley, counter weight idea deserves some consideration too. That can connect out at the centre of mass pretty easily.

That's done,
I have made the installation of the Z stepper... with my saw.
Thanks Greolt for recommandation about risk of broken, I have first drill two holes at the bottom and saw an horizontal line from one hole to the other to limit vibrations, and finish with the both vertical sides.
You must be patient using this way, not sawing to fast, and prefer milling operation, it's safer.
Thanks for reply about gas spring, Greolt.
Jeff

Greolt,

Well, the X bracket I got came from the same batch as yours! :(
However, my Z screw seems to be fine. I will continue to check all in the coming days.

Olivier.

HaHaHa!!! I am not crazy after all :D :D

Don't forget to check the ballnut mounting blocks from X and Y for squareness of the mounting surface.

I see your Z bottom mount is different to mine.

Correct me if I am wrong, but since there is no parallel dowels neither on X nor Y brackets, it means that all the X and Y bracket can be slightly adjusted, specifically regarding their height, and therefore, worst case, an easy fix is simply to resurface the bottom of the ballnut mounting blocks, using as a reference the side on which the ballnut is screwed. Correct?

Hi Greolt,
you told us that you used the existing bearing on the top support of the Z axis, but on my Z ballscrew, the diameter is a little smaller than the inside diameter ball bearing, need to do a diameter collar to fit the bearing in, correct ?

ob_seven I can't really follow your post :)

This is what I did.
Remove the brass nut and small spacer behind it and the motor bracket assembly will slide off the ballscrew.

Bolt the ballnut mount hard down to the saddle for X and base for Y. I had to elongate one hole for this on both axis.

Very acurately measure the ballscrew is exactly parrallel to the ways. Both side to side and up and down.
You may need to make up a guage block to straddle the ways and just touch the top of the screw.

Now you will see what if any adjustments you must make. As I said mine needed machining to true it up.
Take your time here and get it right.

Once that is spot on then slide the table into the ways and see if the bracket either end line up exactly with the screw where it is.
No pushing the screw sideways or up and down to match.
What I had to do was slightly elongate the holes in the brackets to match the now aligned screw.

You can run the ballnut on the X to one end or the other so that the bracket you are checking is close to the nut.
Then run it to the other end to get the other bracket right etc.

On the Y run the screw in till it is touching the column, get the bracket right.
Then run the screw out and check again to make sure the bracket position is still spot on.

There will be a hundred different ways to achieve the same thing. This is just how I did it. :cheers:

Hi Greolt,
you told us that you used the existing bearing on the top support of the Z axis, but on my Z ballscrew, the diameter is a little smaller than the inside diameter ball bearing, need to do a diameter collar to fit the bearing in, correct ?
What size is the bearing ID and what size the screw end?

If I remember correctly mine was 12mm

Syil did say I think that these varied on different machines.

If the difference is not too small and you have the facility you could make a spacer bush.

Perhaps you could check with a local bearing supplier to see if you can get one with the same
size OD as the existing one and ID to suit the new ballscrew end. Probably only a dollar or two.

Hi Greolt,
I've done the spacer because the diameter of the end of the Z ballscrew is 10mm, and you can't find a 10/28mm bearing.
But now, I find the ballscrew too long (about 5 mm) :tired:
Need to modify the top support on my lathe, long is the road, boy !!!

But now, I find the ballscrew too long (about 5 mm) :tired:
Need to modify the top support on my lathe, long is the road, boy !!!
Syil have insisted to me that the end on mine (see pic) is normal and they use a bush
for different size bearings (I am sceptical) Could yours have a bush on it already? Could a new one be made?

What happened with mine, I believe, is it was turned down too small and a piece was
pressed over it and them turned again to the correct size.
Problem came when they pressed the new bit on to the small spigot it got bent.
Then to add to that the press fit was no good and came loose.

Hi Greolt,
I looked closer to the end of the ballscrew, I didn't found bush.
The 10/12mm spacer I made have been pressed (not strongly) without problem, I used brass material in order to limit overconstraint on the ID bearing (brass is quite soft).
Note I changed the bearing, I found the original "quality light".

Hi Greg,

The screw end has been turned down to a small diameter, likely larger than yours, and then a bush has been pressed. Looks ok to me.

Olivier.

Hi Greolt,
I looked closer to the end of the ballscrew, I didn't found bush.
The 10/12mm spacer I made have been pressed (not strongly) without problem,
I used brass material in order to limit overconstraint on the ID bearing (brass is quite soft).
Note I changed the bearing, I found the original "quality light".
That bush will be fine. The top end of this screw only does light duty.
It has only to support the top of the screw from any whipping. No real load on it at all.

Syil have insisted to me that the end on mine (see pic) is normal and they use a bush
for different size bearings (I am sceptical)

Greolt, I've read through this thread, and something about Syil's explanation for using a bushing makes no sense.

If they put a bushing on the Z ballscrew to account for different bearing sizes used by sieg, why didn't they send you two or more bushings to cover the possible bearing sizes your X3 might have?

I mean, they only sent you one bushing, so why not just turn the ballscrew to the same size as the bushing? What would you have done if the bushing didn't fit your bearing? If they know that X3's come with different bearing sizes, they should send bushings to fit each possible size right?

IMO, you are correct in thinking they messed up the end of the ballscrew and tried to fix it with a bushing. Especially judging by the terrible runout, and that jfmichel's Z screw doesnt have a bushing. What they should have done is just cut that screw shorter and used it for an X axis screw, or mabye cut it in half and made two Y axis screws out of it.

Syil, you have asked for suggestions, here is an easy one. Do not use bushings on the ends of ballscrews. It makes it appear you are trying to slip something by your customers.

PS: Greolt, if you have access to a lathe, could you turn the small part that is running out just enough to make it run true, then make a new bushing to fit?

Greolt, I've read through this thread, and something about Syil's explanation for using a bushing makes no sense.
I am biting my tongue :D Feel like it's going to start bleeding soon :p

Before I write something ungracious I'm going on holiday:rolleyes:

Seriously I'll be away the next two weeks. Don't know if I'll be able to check in on the forum.

So if I don't answer a question I haven't really "spat the dummy":boxing:

Jfmichel and Ob_seven, I expect photos by the time I get back :stickpoke

we have been packing the replace itmes for them.and will sent to Mr Greolt
the sieg super x3 it is not every same for the hole.our conversion kits it is depend on our demo x3..
so,in future our conversion kits will not make the hole for the x axis bracket.
Thanks for good advise.
Syil

OK I can't help myself.

Why is it so hard to say "Oops we made a mistake, Sorry about that"

I turned the bracket around and "How about that" it fits perfectly. Pics speak for themselves.

If I get the parts from Syil that will be great.:cheers:

GasSpring, New Z axis screw and New bracket.

Well I'm off to the airport so if you want to flame, I won't hear. :violin:

looks like someone rotated the wrong way when making the part or something long those lines.

tomorrow we will sent the replace parts,please also sent back ballscrew too,hehe
thank you.and sorry delay,becuase the ballscrew not arrive my warehouse.

Dear Greg, and others,

I also have the inverted X bracket problem, and actually did fit the bracket inverted on the mill. To do this, I did countersunk the 2 top engine support holes, as there was not enough material on the X bracket to redo the counterbores on the other side, where they should have been done. The problem with the countersunk screws is they do have only one position where they fit, and there is no flexibility to adjust anything. I did manage to get all assembled anyway.

Syil did sent me a replacement part, and I will redo the full correct assembly as soon as I will receive the new, undrilled bracket.

Will post pictures later on.

Olivier.

Hi everybody,
I've just finished the Z axis integration, everything seems OK, I will control the geometry on evening, send you pics.
To resume, I've just modified the top support to integrate the bearing and drilled one of the holes little bit larger to fit with the screws.
Pretty ballscrews indeed :banana:
Jeff

WE have been sent for the replace X bracket for 2 friends,thanks for your kind support.

Syil

Hi everybody,
I got a private message today from Syil, they have finished the instruction guide, and gave the way to download it with password to their customers.
It's a step by step guide and they've have done many pictures with dimensions.
Great, I could place my switches on evening.

Thanks people from Syil, now you have to do the same with the stepper controllers, especially about electrical adjustments (amps and microstepping).

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
I got the fill fully taken apart yesterday might, in order to hacksaw the base for Z stepper. Those parallel dowels on the Z axis are a nightmare to remove! I could not even pull them with a small extractor, ie an 25 mm long M4 screw, and a small tube, drilled to 4mm, and redrilled 6.5 mm halfway. Those dowels do have an M4 tap, and I suppose it is what that should be used for. Suggestions?

I was able to check the Z screw length, and I will probably have to turn a bit the ball bearing holder in the top the way you did. My Z screw top bushing is 12mm, and the ball bearing is 28mm ext, 8 thick. Will by a new bearing, as I will damage the original one by pulling it from the screw.

X axis is ok, and TNT has left a message, as the replacement X bracket has arrived. I did check as suggested by greolt the squareness of the X nut holder, and it was at about 0.01mm, so I preferred to leave it as is, as "worst is the best friend of make it better"

About Y, there should not be issues. I even believe I will not nee to machine the mill column itself, like greolt had to. Have you done anything special to the column base? (have you ordered the 40 mm longer y screw?)

Will post pictures beginning next week.

Olivier.

Hi Olivier,
I sent you a private message about dowels, I apologize for others friends but it was difficult for me to explain (can show with pics if somebody needs).
For the Y axis, I order as old standard (120 mm travel), I project to exchange in a few months, depends on needs, sorry I have no solution for this point.
For the bearing on Z, request for 6001ZZ (dustproof).
About Z, don't forget to drill and tap for the switch while the support is taken off the ballscrew.
Now I'm working on X and Y axis, I didn't check for the X bracket , I hope it's correct.
I agree about the 0.01mm default on X nut.
Jeff

Please do post some Pic's of the dowels and if possible, explain the difficulty and the solution and why they are to be removed.

Thanks

Ron

Ron111,

The parallel dowels I do talk about are located on the ball bearing holder, on the Z screw top, as well as on the thrust bearing holders, on the bottom of Z screw. The same style of dowels are as well on each side of the column.

It is needed to take apart all these parts in order to install the ball screw, and the issue is those dowels accurately positionning the parts are REALLY hard to remove.

I actually had to pull very strongly on the old screw, right next both bearing blocks, in order to dismaltle the bearing blocks from the column. You must leave the dowels on the top block, and on the bottom block, there is no hole to put dowels on the Syil block. about the column dowels, they are too short once the Z stepper plate is installed between the column and the base. You could put longer dowels, but I did not that, as I was not able to remove the original ones, and therefore letf them as is, and positionned the part without dowel centering.

At least, now, X and Z axis are done, I have to do Y!

Regards,

Work in progress,


I have finished the Y axis (ballscrew is fixed this evening) and it's look good, first I mount the ballnut support on the base and not lock it, then I fixed the stepper support on the Y table, put the table in place and fix the bolt of the ballscrew. I made the screw moved with a battery driller (slowly of course) in order to place the ballnut correctly and I locked it, so it took his place itself during translations.
I have problems to bend the sheet of limit switches shipped in the kit (the iron sheet break when you're trying to bend them).Syil tell me that I can make them with brass, it will detect correctly.
The good point is that you can ask Syil when you have technical question, they answer very soon, thanks M. Wang.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/Imag0038.jpg

I did cut the mill base drilling a bunch of small holes, then, it was really easy to cut the remaining metal using a regular hacksaw. I finished by grinding with an angle grinder, then using a file, I cleaned up the angles.
I did turn a small sleeve for the Z ballnut, to center it in the nut holder. You can see it on the pictures.
I installed the column, the Z stepper, and here it is! I did not had to modify any of the part, beside drilling the holes in the Z stepper plate a bit larger. Z screw lenght is OK on my mill.

Those day we are near finish the X2,so long time didn`t login on CNCzone.
we will post some new machines soonly.

also,the spindle G-control and coolant G-control total finish..

Sounds like I will get something from you soon? :P

Well holiday was great but just a memory now:(

I fixed the bodgy Z axis screw. Got tired of waiting.

Told Syil not to bother about sending one.
Still waiting for bracket and gas spring but that may be because I have been away.

Gripped it in the three jaw chuck with some aluminium strips to protect the screw.
Supported the other end that hung out the back of the lathe spindle so it didn't whip about.

Was very surprised how soft the screw was. Expecting it to be quite hard on the outer surface.:rolleyes: It wasn't.

Pics are self explanitory.

I did ask for the screw specs, in order to know a little bit more what are these exactly. Did not got the reply yet, but will ask again. Would be good to know the material, as well as the recommended usage conditions.

Olivier.

Got the new X bracket and gas spring today. It was waiting for me at the TNT depot.

Thanks Syil.

Jfmichel and Olivier for your info and any others who may go down this route in the future.

I didn't mention before because I had no photo. Now as I am replacing backwards bracket I can take one.

On the X and Y mounts I found that the four bolts securing the bearing housing to the bracket were only engaged by two threads.:nono:

You can see in the pic the length of the original and the ones I replaced them with.

Hopefully this was just an oversite on mine and yours are not the same.

You should check them anyway.:cheers:

Hi Olivier and welcome back Greg !
Yesterday was a rainy day, so I spend time in my sunny workshop:)
I have finished the mechanical chapter, in fact I thought, but I will take time to check the screws on bracket X and Y as Greg noticed some trouble:(
I will begin to wire at evening, to do some tests about geometry.
I will purchase Mach3, and I 've asked Syil this morning for wiring diagram and controllers (breakout and steppers) informations (switches and so on).
I hope Syil will reply as usual.
Question for you dear Greg, what you will use to lubricate ballscrews , grease or specifical oil as Arcoline, of course there's lubrification unit, we need to check frequently.

Jeff

Jeff

I used some high quality food grade grease. Only because I had it already:)

I hope you have success with getting technical info on the stepper drivers from Syil.
They have just ignored my repeated requests for this info.:(

I was wondering (dreaming if you prefer, but I can't say this word cause I'm at work...), how much can you increase the spindle speed on this machine, what do you think about, dear friends from cnc world ?
I mean by changing the motor pulley (small job and not to expensive).
By this way, do you think the spindle bearings could integrate a speed up to 6000rpm.
What do you think about it too, friends from Syil ?

I hope you have success with getting technical info on the stepper drivers from Syil.
They have just ignored my repeated requests for this info.:(
I spoke too soon (chair)

Syil have responded this time and are going to ask their factory :banana:

:D Greg, you should not hurt your head like this !!!
You're right, I've just receive wiring dwg file and pdf breakout board file.
For this point, let your reader installs Chinese character table, or you couldn't see anything (because Syil use standard characters picked in this simplified Chinese table).
I hope the stepper info are coming soon :D :D :D

I was wondering (dreaming if you prefer, but I can't say this word cause I'm at work...), how much can you increase the spindle speed on this machine, what do you think about, dear friends from cnc world ?
I mean by changing the motor pulley (small job and not to expensive).
By this way, do you think the spindle bearings could integrate a speed up to 6000rpm.

I just spent considerable time on this subject with my X3.
Once my mill is fully complete I'll create a proper thread here.
For now you can read about my X3 spindle speed experiment and the new belt drive I built here- http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=20585

Steve

Greolt and Gents(too many of you X3er to name, (group) me thinks this little machine is talking over!!)
I just noticed that KDN tool is the Syil USA rep. and thought it would be of interest and maybe another place to funnel questions. Here is KDN tools announcement.

Syil USA has X3 CNC Kits in Stock!

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:banana: Syil USA now has X3 CNC kits in stock!!

We have received our first shipment of X3 CNC kits from Syil Electric & Hardware CO. LTD. We will be taking photos this weekend to pulish on our website early next week. See our website www.syilusa.com for more details.

Mention you saw us on CNCZONE and get a $75.00 discount on the price of a kit. This offer applies to the first shipment only so when they are gone, so is the offer.


Syil USA is a division of KDN Tool & Automation Engineering CO. LLC

Thanks for your time!!
Ken
KDN Tool
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Greolt, are you pretty close to making some serious chips?

Guys, I've enjoyed following your posts and look forward to seeing what your machines performance is like. (and of course your PICs, :banana: hehe!!)

Ron

I just spent considerable time on this subject with my X3.
Once my mill is fully complete I'll create a proper thread here.
For now you can read about my X3 spindle speed experiment and the new belt drive I built here- http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=20585

Steve

Thank you Steve, interesting thread really.
CNCzone is a really nice community (group)

Was googling a bit, and I found this address:

http://www.nb-david.com/EnglishCompany.Asp

Really looks like the ones we have in the kit!

Will have a look to the high speed spindle. I will first finish all wiring, and limits + custom Y bracket, to cope well with the 40mm longer Y screw.

Regards,

Interested to see what solution you come up with for the longer Y screw Oliviere.

Pics. We want pics :wave:

Greolt, are you pretty close to making some serious chips?
Ron, I have been cutting all sorts of shapes into scrap chipboard.:)

Trying to learn to run Mach and have been using the wizards to produce simple gcode so far.

I am still getting unexpected things happening and don't want to commit good tooling to the scrap bin :p

Computer is proving to be inadequate I think. Getting buffer overruns and weird errant movement sometimes. Laptop!!!:stickpoke

In the process of dragging a desktop out of retirement to try.

Trouble is I don't have a spare LCD screen and may have to put up with an old CRT

Well, that is already checked on mine, and there was no issue about those screws.

I did however open "by accident" the bearing housing, and this is what you should avoid I think. Both the the inner and outer cage do have shims to adjust, and I was not 100% able to put all back together the right way...
So : If it's ain't broken, don't fix it :) , or if you want to do it, have a clear look to the adjustments before opening.

Jfmichel and Olivier for your info and any others who may go down this route in the future.
On the X and Y mounts I found that the four bolts securing the bearing housing to the bracket were only engaged by two threads.:nono:

I spoke too soon (chair)

Syil have responded this time and are going to ask their factory :banana:

Syil reply to me about stepper controllers boxes (switches and rotary selector) , and told me that they had no pdf file for the moment but they will send it to me (and us) later.
Please Greg , would you be kind enough to send me the chair you used yesterday ? (chair)

Seriously, PLEASE PEOPLE FROM SYIL, just informations about switches and rotary selector combination possibilities (mail to us on this thread) and that's all for the moment, just allow us to finish integration in good conditions, thank you

Jeff

I am currently re-writing the instructional / technical documentation on all the electronics. Send me an email and I will email you back the PDFs when I'm finished.

In the near future, all machines will come with a detailed manual.

Maybe I can answer some fundimentals though. What are you looking for?

I have been to the ballscrew factory. Very nice product. Most of the materials come from Italy.

Interested to see what solution you come up with for the longer Y screw Oliviere.

Pics. We want pics :wave:


It's going to take a bit more than a week before I can work again on the mill and take pics...have to work a bit!

I have drilled a bit the bottom of the column to fit the end of the screw, but I do not think it is the best thing to do. After thinking a bit, whay you need to do is a shim, about 30mm thick, to be fitted in between the Y plate, and actual mill "Y/X" junction block. Also, a 5mm shim in between the Y nut, and the nut holder. I will actually do the parts on the mill itself, with reduced Y travel. This is the plan.

Cheers,

I am currently re-writing the instructional / technical documentation on all the electronics. Send me an email and I will email you back the PDFs when I'm finished.

In the near future, all machines will come with a detailed manual.

Maybe I can answer some fundimentals though. What are you looking for?

I have been to the ballscrew factory. Very nice product. Most of the materials come from Italy.
Thank you for your kind offer of assistance

What I need to know is how to set the amperage put out by the stepper driver.

The following is a quote of a post I made a while ago on this question.

Ok I read posts all about RMS and peak. Square wave moving to sinusoidal at higher RPM.
All went over my head :D :withstupi :D

On the drives that came with a kit from China amp setting is done with a trimpot. Microsteping is set with dip switches

On Lou's sugestion I put my multimeter in series with one phase of a bipolar setup.

Then jog-stepped one microstep at a time till the amps peaked on that phase and adjusted the trimpot to the amps I wanted.

Is this the right way to do it????? :rolleyes:
Among other responses the following two are from Phill of Pminmo fame.

You should have information with the drive as to how to set motor current. Usually there is a reference voltage that you adjust and measure via a simple dc voltmeter. Your method has issues.
Assuming the drive using pwm/chopping, unless he has some pretty sophisticated equipment, measuring AC current of a chopped waveform isn't very accurate, and in fact the readings could be very misleading. Plus across the motor coil that is being switched?
Syil it seems cannot provide this info.

If you are able to source any info on the manufacturers recommended method that would be great.:cheers:

Thanks, Greolt

I am currently re-writing the instructional / technical documentation on all the electronics. Send me an email and I will email you back the PDFs when I'm finished.

In the near future, all machines will come with a detailed manual.

Maybe I can answer some fundimentals though. What are you looking for?

I have been to the ballscrew factory. Very nice product. Most of the materials come from Italy.

Thank you Syilamerica.

First I would say I unsderstand that Syil is very busy (and I hope it will continue for them, it's a good problem in business) and I try , like others X3ers, to improve what we need to get at the end , not a perfect kit but very close if possible.

I have mount 3 steppers sent in the kit, one is bigger on Z, the Y one support X load, and the 3 controllers have the same settings ?
I have no information about steppers, and nothing to check and control that I will work in optimal conditions.
To be simple, such as Greolt, I try to know the best way to make this nice kit works with efficiency and for long hours.
Thanks again for your help, send you personnal mail on private message

Jeff

Yes we are very very busy of delivery,and new products,so sorry for every friends.
i will sent some info PDF for you by emails,could your infrom me your email address.

Syil have just sent me a PDF on the stepper driver.

Thank you for that Syil.:cheers:

Sadly it is the same PDF I have received before. It contains very scant info.

The following quote from the PDF is the only reference to amperage setting.

Drive current adjust
The driving current can be adjusted from 1.0A to 4.3A infinitely. The current will go down
when clockwise rotate the adjustable resistor; and the current will go up when counter-clockwise
rotate the adjustable resistor.

ATTENTION:
Do not adjust the current value too high. High current will strengthen the moment of the
stepper motor, but it will bring more thermal problem too.
Some stepper motor will have accurate subdivision angle just under a special drive current.
Please adjust the drive current follow the stepper motor’s specification. Any more comprehensive info you can provide Syil, will be greatly appreciated.

Hello X3ers of the world,
yes I had this document too, thanks again M.Wang, but like Greolt, I wait for steppermotors information.
The document says :" Please adjust the drive current follow the stepper motor's specification"
So....
:wave:
Jeff

Hello X3ers of the world,
yes I had this document too, thanks again M.Wang, but like Greolt, I wait for steppermotors information.
The document says :" Please adjust the drive current follow the stepper motor's specification"
So....
:wave:
Jeff

:banana: :banana: :banana:
I got the specification of the stepper motors, hope it's Ok for you too Greolt, of course I will post if not, just tell me.
Jeff

If that is the same as I have found before you will find that both size motors are rated at 3 amps per phase.

Nema 23 are four wire so only one way to connect. 57HS2A76-304 or 288

Nema 34 are eight wire. Connect series method = 3 amps. 86HS2A80-308

However this does not tell us the method to adjust the stepper driver output to 3amps.

I hope you have been given better info than I have been able to find:stickpoke

:tired:
You're right Greolt, I'm gonna watch TV...

Sounds to me like you adjust the current throught the resistor. The more resistance the less amps it can draw. Can you hook a multi meter in the power line somewhere and see how much current it is drawing on the meter ? Also, for steppers, you can hook an ohms meter up and measure the resistance between the wires and figure out the optimum current for the motor, if you don't have the specs. I am sure you could find this method on google.

You can set the current with a volt meter. The attached method will filter out the PWM noise. Simple set the current a little low as you will be reading the average current not the peak (Please don't bring up RMS vs peak). THere shouldn't be much of a difference between the two values (average & peak) if the motors have even a few mH of inductance.

You will need to step the motor until you get a maximum and let it sit in that position while you adjust the current.

With the 0.1 ohm sense resistor: I = 10V, so you should look for about 0.3 volts (set to ~0.27 if you want to add some safety factor)

I suggest starting out with the current at a minimum and slowly work up to the correct set point.

Aaron

Thank you for your posts Kben77 and Aaron. :cheers:

I had to wait till I went to town to get a 0.1 resistor. I didn't have one.

Did the test as per Aaron's method and set volts to 280mv

Then checked with meter in series with one coil, as I had before, and it read 2.81a

So I conclude that the results from both methods are that close that it does not matter.

As Syil are not able to provide any info and taking what advise I can from the forum THIS WILL HAVE TO DO! :p

Now I have to learn to drive this thing.:stickpoke

I've been doing gcode using the conversational wizard and cutting scrap bits of chipboard so far.

Laptop seems to be handling Mach3 OK at the moment. Will see how it goes.

Thank you friends for information about current settings.
I'm in progress with Mach3 and computer settings.
It should move in a few days now.
I will send pics and report tests
Jeff

Does anyone know if this conversion kit will fit a super X3?
Also, is the kit available in the UK?
Adam

Does anyone know if this conversion kit will fit a super X3?
Also, is the kit available in the UK?
Adam
As far as the kit is concerned there is no difference in the Super X3.

However some importers get a smaller table and column version.(that might only be on the standard X3)

The column is 740 high and the table is 550 x 160

I'm pretty sure all the Supers are this size anyway.

Does anyone know if this conversion kit will fit a super X3?
Also, is the kit available in the UK?
Adam

If your need paypal paying,you can contact www.syilamerica.com
Syil china.

Our Super X3 conversion kits will fit all X3 mills.

The only differance between the Super X3 and X3 are a digital spindle with RPM readout, push button rapid reverse, and tapping mode.

Our Super X3 conversion kits will fit all X3 mills.

The only differance between the Super X3 and X3 are a digital spindle with RPM readout, push button rapid reverse, and tapping mode.
There are X3s around with a smaller table and shorter column though

Does anyone know if this conversion kit will fit a super X3?
Also, is the kit available in the UK?
Adam

Hello Adam
Mine is a superX3, and I've bought the conversion kit from Syil. It fits OK, when I purchased the Y ballscrew give 120 mm travel and there was no spring gas on Z, now it's included and the Y travel is 160 mm.
It's possible to buy your X3 at cnc-steuerung.com in Germany, very professionnal reseller.

Jeff

in Luxembourg. I got my regular X3 for 1015 euros. It was in promotion, and I think that was a fairly good price for europe. they might do the same for SX3. Currently their SX3, the RC20bfn is listed at 1995 euros, and regular x3 at 1450.

regards,

As Syil are not able to provide any info and taking what advise I can from the forum THIS WILL HAVE TO DO! :p

.

After reading this thread of over 100 posts, all I can say is IMO you are a very patient man.
After doing all the 'Engineering' for Syil, that should have been done before you bought it.
In return for your efforts, I think the least they can do is bung you another machine, GRATIS:devious:
Al.

Heh, I read through manual explanation myself last night and came to conclusion that I would like to have limit switch really. There will be times I will want to run off from machine on long job and honestly, last thing I would like to see would be stepper getting stuck on limit for ever burning itself out or something.

Of course, there is no better protection than careful planning and setup, but I still would prefer seeing the last resort stopper. (I am pretty sure there is good reason why those expensive machines do have them :P)
What I was thinking also was possibly DRO implementation but I would like someone else to give this one a shot first :)

BTW, the way you strapped the y axis sensor... be carful... just don't cross over to the other side of bed from there as it is possible for Y axis ball screw to grab it and break it apart. Happened to me twice.
I am looking at better ways to wire this right now.

That is smart... using one sensor to do both limits... I see... something definitely I will want to do than this homing switch really.
I guess same can be done on x-axis ane z-axis too actually my z-axis homing is right around there for top end :)

Thought about implemting DRO on some ways? :)

Oh, and a little thing I tried which seems to work great.

I grabbed stainless set screws and thumb nut that goes with it. Replaced the gib adjustment set screws with this and I can honestly say I can really fine tune my gibs to my satisfaction now on fly without having to try to squeeze 2 wrenches in there. And it looks prettier too hehe.

I've also lapped..... parts of bed that wasn't as smooth as I would like to see... Not much other than getting those nasty ridges off a little smoother. Now machine can run faster without losing track or having much of noise ... :) (short of z-axis which I don't know how to disassemble yet so keeping it the way it is until I find out). Machine just feels like different machine now.

Below is the pic of new gib adjustment set :)

................ but I still would prefer seeing the last resort stopper. (I am pretty sure there is good reason why those expensive machines do have them :P)...........................

I have been using this machine for a while now and would not bother installing limit switches if doing it again.

Big expensive machines are moving a lot of cast iron at pretty fast speeds. A lot of momentum.

To do that they have big powerful servos. If they crash into the end of travel they will do major damage.

That is not the case with my X3.


BTW, the way you strapped the y axis sensor... be carful... just don't cross over to the other side of bed from there as it is possible for Y axis ball screw to grab it and break it apart. Happened to me twice.
I am looking at better ways to wire this right now.


If you look in the pic at how I secured the Y axis homing switch wiring you will see that it is fairly safe from accidental breakage. :)

.

Syil,

It is common practice in most of the industrialized countries to include some sort of illustration showing a "standard" installation. If a customer wants to deviate from the standard that is his perrogative. As for wire - you should include enough plus a few inches more for a "standard/reasonable" installation. Surely you can come up with something. Saying that some customers want to make their own custom installation is viewed by most in the U.S. as a cop-out.

Cliff.