HI All,

After looking at the prices of aluminum extrusions, I've decided to build my CNC frame from steel square tubing. I've decided to teach myself welding so I can weld the frame (I'm sure I'll find other things around the house to weld too). I'd like a welder that will run off my homes power and is easy to use. I've been searching and it seems that MIG welders are popular. However, I'd like to stay away from MIGs since they require a tank of inert gas. I don't drive, so getting the tank refilled would be a pain. I guess I'm left with either a stick or wire feed welder. Which is easier to learn/use? What is a good brand/model for home use? I'm not planning on welding heavy gage metal, so I'm guessing 110 is good enough for me. Any and all experiences (good or bad) with home welders are welcome. Also, if you have any features that I should look for (or look out for) would be appreciated.

Thanks,
bb99

You can only use a TIG welder on alum, a regular welder ac/dc can be used for steel. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I've welded anything.

MIG welders are wire feed. Wires are commonly available for steel, stainless, hard-surfacing. You can also get aluminum MIG wire, but you generally need a spool gun to pull feed the wire, rather than push feed it. Aluminum wire is notorious for sticking in the welding gun. You need an inert gas for aluminum MIG.

There are small models you can buy for 110v operation. You can also use a flux-core wire (for steel) in them, so that you can scrape by without bottled gas.

MIGs are easiest to learn to lay a bead with, and are very nice for doing light sheet metal with, because the deposition rate is higher and lessens the chance of burn-through.

With the advent of new auto-darkening welding helmets, learning stick welding is not as bad as it used to be, either, since you can see a bit of what is going on while trying to strike an arc. Stick welders are considered more versatile, because of the variety of different rods you can use, for different metals, weld strengths, etc.

PS: don't burn your shop down. You need a workplace free of combustibles from flying sparks and gobs of hot metal.

Mister BB99,

Here's a link to some info about welding. Different terms and machines. There is also some info about which machine to buy.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/basics_hints/


Paul, you can weld about any metal with a TIG .:D

I have been happy with Lincoln Electrics AC 225 model that I bought 20 some years ago; it is 230 Volts though; before I had a shop it was powered via a heavy duty extension cord from the dryer outlet.
The higher amperage that a 230 volt model offers is very handy for cutting metal. Also higher voltage welders tend to have a longer duty cycle so you do not have to make a point of waiting for the machine to cool down.
Anyway the price was right for this basic stick welder and it has served me well for a long time.
Yeah like Hu said, be careful about combustibles; my neighbor lost his (nice big) shop; fire investigators believe welding splatter was the culprit.

The best garage welder in my humble opinion is a tig welder. Yes it requires gas , but there are no sparks flying around at all. It's a slower process, but more forgiving as you have a foot pedal to control amperage. It does however always require two hands, one to hold the torch and one to hold the filler rod. It will allow you to weld any kind of weldable metal. You can set up an account with a local weld supply store, buy or rent the gas cylinder and call them when you need it switched out and they will deliver it for you. It does require a certain amount of skill, but because of the speed of the process you are able to see that you have 100% solubility of the filler metal with the puddle, no cold lapping of the joint. To me it just takes coordination to learn. You can poke around and find a good used one for sale. They require 220 single phase power, kind of like your dryer or your kitchen range.

You can also change them to stick welding with a couple of flips of a switch. Usually they start at about 200 to 250 amps. I have seen less though. I think lincoln once made one that was 180 amps.

Oh one more thing. The most dangerous gas given off is ozone. Very clean and won't smoke up your garage.

Wow, just like Domino’s, but without the breadsticks! But seriously, thanks for letting me know some supply stores will deliver refilled bottles, I really do appreciate the information. This opens up my options. I do still need to deal with the volts issue. My dryer is three floors above my garage, so my only option would be to have a 220 line brought in. The problem with that is that I own a townhouse and this may be an issue for our board to decide.

I’m going to check with the supply stores in my area and see if they deliver bottles. If not, then there is no reason to bring the volts issue to my association.

Thanks for all the info,
bb99

If your breaker box is in your garage then you just have to run a 220 line to where you want the welder to be from the box.

I ran a line from my meter box on the back of my home to the back of the garage and installed a new breaker box in the garage. It runs a miller 350Lx tig welder and a 3 axis cnc machining center.

I have never been able to get a 110 mig to weld aluminum.
Forget the stick welder for aluminum.
220 mig can weld aluminum but you are going to need pacience and pratice.
Tig will weld it all and weld it the best.
With a tig welder and a 220 mig you are going to be limited to where you weld "about 15 feet from the welder.
A 110 mig you can carry and plug just about any where.
A Stick you can get longer leads.
My money for at home is the 110 mig useing both flux core and gas. Gas will look better and cleaner. Use flux when pretty isn't needed.
Get the auto hood, a 4" or 4 1/2" grinder, safety goggles and an old long sleave shirt " sunburn protection".
The money you save on the 110 model and small grinder you should spend on the hood "auto darking lens".

I also gas weld

Ropewrench is right. It does take lots of juice to mig weld aluminum. And stick welding aluminum is like having a "draw" on mainstreet in Tombstone: you gotta be fast and know exactly where you're going because its all over in seconds :D

TIG is a bit overkill for a guy who just wants to weld some steel together, IMO. It costs quite a bit to get a good machine. But, only the individual knows what all he plans to do with it eventually.

Hello,

I would suggest that you consider taking a intro to welding course at your community college.
This would allow you to at least try all of the common welding methods to see which would suit you best. Plus, you will have access to a lot of expensive fabrication equipment (welders, shears, brakes, grinders, torches, bandsaws, tables, etc.) and the instructor may let you bring in your own projects.
It will not be that expensive, should work around your schedule, and you will learn more about welding in a few weeks than you may with a few years of expensive trial and error.

Good luck

Hi All,

Just called my local CC. The next set of beginner welding classes begin on February 19! Also, by looking at the course schedule of the Fall 2003 catalog, it appears that the beginner courses are only offered in the mornings from 7:45 to 10:15. That would be fine if I didn’t have a fulltime job. I’m having the CC send me course information and class schedules for Sprint 04 as soon as they’re printed. In the meantime, I’d like to begin learning. So, here’s a shopping list that I’ve come up with:

110v wire feed welder (MIG/flux combo if possible (depends on $’s))
Grinder (already have a good one so I’ll put the money towards a hood)
Hood (best I can afforded, within reason)
Leather gloves

I’ve been reading the net and I’ve seen comments that the flux splatters quite a bit. My concern is that my neighbors may not like me burning the building down. I don’t have much flammable liquids in my garage and what I do have can be safely stored away. My question is: how much of a “safe zone” do I need around my welding area and what is the best way to contain the sparks/splatter?

--bb99

I would assume you have a concrete floor. The trick is to have all the floor visible, in the sense that you can see underneath most everything that is combustible. No boxes or junk, etc., and of course the oily rags should be stored in the basement :D

Drywall (gypsum board or however it is known) is safe enough. But grinding, etc will mark it up, so a sheet metal interior area would be ideal. Seal the wall to the floor so sparks cannot get under the plate.

BTW, welding smoke will make your ceiling and lights dirty.

Also, check with your insurance agent. You may accidentally be transgressing the limitations of your policy. Better to know before a fire happens.

Have you looked at the Hobart brand welders? The 135 is the largest for 115 VAC use.


http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/mig/
http://fostertool.com/hobart135.html
http://www.welders-direct.com/

Try here. http://www.weldingmart.com These guys have good prices on lincoln. Hobart is a good machine also made by miller here in wisconsin.

Go with tig. I bought a tig 10 years ago for our shop and everybody thought I was going to buy a mig. The tig welder can weld any thing you throw at it. Now it is slower but in your case I dont think that is an issue. The gas issue you would only have to have that tank re filled depending on usage maybe every 6 months. If you wanted to even save the gas flip a couple of switches on a tig welder and you are stick welding without the gas. But once you go tig you will never go back it is clean no sparks and after you get your hand eye cordination the welds can look very nice. In my younger days I was a certified welder and taught some of the machinist who were pretty good stick welders to tig and they picked it up pretty easily.

I have two stick/tig welder one goes up to 300 amps and weighs 300 lbs the other goes up to 120amps@220 and 60 amps@110 volt . It weighs 19 pounds. Strictly dc so no ALuminum. But I love it. I weld from 22 gauge stainless to 1/2" thick steel. You can throw it in a back pack and plug it into any 110 or 220 outlet. Have many argon bottles smallest weighs about 20 pounds and works good for small jobs. Have a hand control and a foot control for it also. Picked it up a couple years ago for $800. My big one cost over $3000.
Now for a home welder. Get a small 110v Mig welder. Don't need gas. You can weld just fine with flux core. I have welded 1/8" thick wall boiler stacks in the field with a little 110 lincon and it worked great. I love my 220v lincon but for portable the 110v will work good. You can find little cheap ones new for 3 or 4 hundred without gas. Just get one you can add gas to later. You will find there is a lot less splater with gas. Also resale value is better if you find you don't like it.
I love to Tig. But quick and easy is mig.


Donny

Lots of good, no great advice. Hard to add anything that might help. One thing to remember is that old saying " with the right rod I can weld the crack of dawn", Al can be welded with stick and with gas also. the big secret with tig is rod control ( you got to learn to dip your wick) first learn to gas weld vary well, this is the class I think everone that wants to learn welding needs under their belt. It teaches a lot of important things and will serve for all other phases of welding. I agree that tig is the way to fly. Mig I hate , I passed my firt cert test for high pressure pipe in the "70" (5P) and I have seen, heard, many people tell me they are welders ie. Mig, They cannot use stick. gas or tig. Another critical factor is machine setting you have got to learn how to set the machine up. Welding is like playing the piano, you got to practice! I think the reason Mig is so popular is that you don't have to have had to develop the hand eye co-oridination. The great thing about learning to weld as I have seen, is you are forced to learn metallurgy. Of course that does not have a lot of appeal to the wood butchers in the crowd. A word or two added about safety, cover your neck up. ultra violet is damaging to the larnyx. If you are concered about fire have somone sandby while you weld as a fire watch. Instruct them in what they need to do and to watchout for. A tip to all, buy mixed gas for tig or mig as it will cover a multitude of different sins. I know this has been alot on your plate given here in these replys but I can not find one peice of bad or incorrect info thats been passed on to you. Lastly have fun with it!:)

Take a look at ESAB welders. They offer a line of
machines that can be easily adapted to mig, stick, tig, and aluminum spoolgun. I have a family member that owns one of these. It is the most versatile welder I have seen. (im not sure if anyone else makes something similar)

I have learned how to arc(Not very well), Mig (Pretty good), and Oxy-Acetlyne, and have found mig to be the easiest, but I am best at Acetlyne.(Well, mig is probably better when the machine is set right, I couldn't find the calibration sheet) I learned on Acetlyne so now mig is very easy for me. I did Arc yesterday for the first time, and have found it simple yet hard to keep the puddle going on thinner metals, and the stick runs out to fast for thicker welds. IT is alot messier, and makes alot of smoke. I think that if you can afford it, mig would be the best of these three, but then you can't do any cutting Acetlyne is the most versatile for steel, and brazing can be done too. Mig is easiest and fastest, And tig is probably the highest quality once you get good, and also can weld virtually anything perfectly. If you are only going to get one, get either a MIg or a tig, but if you plan on doing any thick metal cutting you need a Acetlyne too. It is all a trade off.

bb99,

I would go against the grain and suggest an oxy aceletene rig for your project. The cost will be the lowest of all mentioned. The process is slower than electric welding but the skills learned will transfer. Also the gas rig will allow you to braze, and cut off.

Additionally, many companies BOC, AIR gas, Linde, and many welding supply houses will provide bottles and deliver. The advantage is that electric welding can be tough to impliment properly with out some good practice time. The recommendation of a community college course was excelent.

I think that Gas welding would be best since it is unlikely that you will have itchy eyes the next morning. Additionally wiring for a welder can be tricky. I had the electricians at work wire our Miller welder and the electrical code requirments were confusing.

If you don't need to do aluminum, I would suggest that for short money gas for steel welding would be your best choice.

The only problem with gas welding is the distortion. Whenever you heat metal, it shrinks in the area heated and pulls everything out of square. That'll make it really hard to get a good CNC frame done! I have a little 110 Century MIG that my mom got me when I graduated high school (thanks mom!), and in the last 7 years I have welded everything from 22 ga, to 1/4", though the latter is very tough to get good penetration on. I think that it cost somewhere around $400, and would be just right for welding a 3/16" tube frame together. By the way, the gas bottle is almost never included! Don't learn this the hard way. I would like to suggest though, that you bolt together your first frame. This will get you up and running, and alignment won't be so difficult. Even professional welders can have a hard time welding together a steel frame that is true to even 1/16". Its hard enough to build your first machine, without learning to weld at the same time. Don't take it the wrong way though! Welding is an invaluble skill, that most people love, but get to know it well first. That way you can save the surprises for later when you know how to handle them! And the fewer surprises, the less expensive anything is.

i have a lincoln power mig 200 at home. i do not find filling the gas bottle once a year to be a big concern. the time speny by not having to replace sticks on a stick welder is more than made up.

Get a mig welder.
The one you want is a MillerMatic 200. (larger is better but smaller will give you limitations)

Don't worry so much about the gas.. They make 2 sizes of bottles and my guess is the small size will last you over a year...

The large bottles (5 feet tall x about 10 inches diameter) will weld together about 200 feet of steel at 1/4 inch thick. (400 feet if your indoors and you keep drafts to a minimum)...
My bet is that you wont weld 200 feet of steel in the next 10 years if your just interested in welding square tube together... In other words, you may need a new bottle once every 2 or 3 years unless your doing heavy welding.

I've spent 12 hour days doing nothing but welding.. (Big tanks).. It takes me at least a week to burn a bottle and I"ll go threw 2 large 30lb spools of .035 wire doing it.

I've been welding for 20 years.. Miller welders are the best... Lincoln are a close second.

1 suggestion, DO NOT get a solid state welder.. These are the new types that use capacitors and SCR's to drive them.. They are finicky and un-reliable. Stay away from them. Make sure to get a Transformer driven type as it will last you for the rest of your life if you take care of it.

2. Stay away from the household 110volt welders that you can plug into a normal socket.. These are so weak and have such a low duty cycle that they are useless for building anything heavy.. They are ok for welding exhaust systems on a car or welding thin sheet metal but fall far short on penetration power when welding anything thicker than 3/16 steel.

3. If you buy a mig welder, and don't plan on welding anything thicker than 1/8 inch, tell them to set it up for .023 wire instead of the more popular .035 wire. The reason is that it is easier to weld thin stuff with the smaller wire and it is to use the larger wire..

4. Find someone to show you how to weld who knows what they are doing. A good looking weld is usually a strong weld. Weak welds will always break at the worst possible time.

A word on DUTY CYCLE..
This is one of the most important ratings of a welder.. A welder that is listed as having 100 amps of power means nothing if the duty cycle is only 5% or 10%.
A ten percent (10%) duty cycle means that at rated power, you are only able to use the welder 1 minute out of 10 minutes. You must let it rest for the remaining 9 minutes to cool off. A 60% duty cycle means you can pull the trigger and go for 6 minutes.. It must rest the remaining 4 minutes. During warm summer months, reduce your duty cycle by 50% of rated DutyCycle. During winter months, you can increase it by 50%.
Anyone who is looking to build something that requires allot of welding would not think of messing with anything less than a 100% rated machine. (very expensive)..

EDIT: If your going to be welding aluminium, get a tig welder. Dont even try welding aluminium with a mig welder if your a newbie.. Its very difficult, finiky, and hard to do correctly. Even experienced welders like myself have a hard time doing it right.
If you need to weld aluminium, a tig is the ONLY way to go..

Good luck,
Murphy

i didn't pick out my welder, (lincoln mig 200) i had a professional welder pick it out for me. i probably would have gotten a lot smaller machine that would not have been appropriate for some of the big stuff i weld on the farm. the 200 mig welder is good to 1/2'' witht the correct wire. most of the stuff i weld is 1/4'' to 3/8''. i have not tried to weld aluminum yet.

After looking at the prices of aluminum extrusions, I've decided to build my CNC frame from steel square tubing. ......

After looking at the (European) prices of steel square tubing, I've decided to build my CNC
frame from 50x50x4 steel U-beams. :D
Since my welding is about the level of "it looks ugly, but sticks together", i expect lots
of distortion of the frame, so i make everything adjustable, and bolt everything else to the
frame. motor and spindle brackets will all be bolted, since they are likely to be replaced by
more beefier versions. have you started building yet ?
Jaap. http://jwstolk.xs4all.nl/mill.htm

start with a lincoin sp125 mig with .035 flux cored wire then pratice your skills

Some gas bottle companies also do medical gases, so they are very well setup to deliver gas to your home. Also, DO NOT weld galvanized coated steel indoors, or inhale the yellow gas it admits. Some people like galvanized electrical pipe for projects, cause it's cheap.

If you got plenty of money, buy a TIG. I wouldn't trade my TIG for anything. If not, get a Hobart or Miller MIG welder (same company, Hobart is the cheaper units they make). Get some flux core wire, and try to get a bottle of gas and wire without flux. That way, the gas bottle will take a long time to use.

Keep a 5 gallon bucket of water around when you weld, good to cool parts down, and very good to put out a small fire. Don't weld, then jump up and go somewhere, the sparks can smolder and a fire break out much later. Get yourself a fire extinguisher for the shop.

While your at it BB99, make sure you've got plenty of ventilation. The fumes from ally welding are not to be taken lightly.
Ian.

[QUOTE=Don't weld, then jump up and go somewhere, the sparks can smolder and a fire break out much later.[/QUOTE]
Very good advice.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the Netherlands your fire insurance is not valid if you leave within an hour after finishing welding.

Evening all, can anyone tell me if you can conect a tig torch to a stick welder direct?
By that I mean will it work? Or is the tig welder electrics different to the stick welder electrics, apart from the fact that the tig has high frequency and a gas valve etc.
I know you have to have a high frequency to get the arc to start but I've heard you can also do "scratch tig".
I've already got a 200 amp stick welder, and a tig torch will cost about A$100 with the gas connections at the connection plug to the welder, and a gas regulator would go for A$50.
Is this feasible? I know some of us are dedicated pro's and probably wouldn't dream of mixing and matching, but if there is no problem as to "will the darn thing work" then I would like to give it a go.
The other thing I've seen advertised is the range of DC inverter welders of 160Amp capacity with a duty cycle of 60%. These are sold for welding ferrous metals and not ally.
As the stick welder is AC and is used on ferous metals how will this work with a tig torch, if it can be connected.
Assuming it can be coupled together,(it's only a plug in ) would I then have to have an AC to DC converter to weld steel?
I've used stick, mig tig and gas in the past, after I was retrenched at 60, and worked part time for a bloke who has a welding business.
I'm fully retired now and just do work for my own needs and hobbies.
But having said this I'm not a welder, and can only weld to satisfy the needs of my ex boss, as I'm a fitter and turner by trade.
Any, all, and even the slighest hazard of a guess will be noted and analyzed and you'll probably open up a whole new can of worms that will keep us going into the wee hours.
Ian.