Hi all. I've put myself down provisionally to do night courses in welding starting next September for twenty weeks three hours a week. I have to let them know in a while which courses I actually want to do.

When I have my workshop set up next year Im intending to be welding round & square bar & some sheet metal to make gates and railings (Probably up to about 1" max), among other things Im gonna do as more of a hobby.

1) Im wondering which type will be best for this type of welding.

Many moons ago I did MMA and OxyAcetylene welding but cant remember how exactly, and professional training is always a good idea. Theres also testing to International standards at the end of the courses so I'll get a useable qualification.

2) I figure I'll do two courses at once (If the nights dont conflict). So would OxyAcetylene and one other be a good choice, since I get the impression that OxyAcetylene is always good to have regardless of what other types you use?

3) If so, what other one should I do? They have an MMA/TIG and a MIG course aswell.

They cost around €600 each so I want to do the right one.

Thanks in advance.

.

MIG is the best welding process for the projects you have in mind. Its a good starting course, also.

Karl

Start with Mig. :)

For small things and I consider 1" small, nothing beats TIG. Largest range of weldable materials, high process control. Can be used for "melting together" to controlled through welding. Finishing of the weld unnessesary, pity of the beautyness. Can be used to weld real tiny parts. Costs a little more.

Carel

I own a tig machine, and the process is definitly the best looking and most controllable, but for gates and and railings mig is preferable from an economical standpoint because it costs less to weld with and takes less time per weld.
Tig is usually reserved for high stress parts like race car frames and plumbing parts for those two reasons.

I own a Tig as well, if you can weld with oxy/acetylene it wont be too hard to pick up. I like to say that tig is sorta like oxy/acet welding cept you have a throttle peddle, but Mister B is correct for building gates and railings I would go for a mig welder as well, production speed would be hard to match other wise

As for classes, Oxy/Acet and mig would be the way to go imo
Oxy/Acet is VERY good to know and the Mig isnt hard to learn but setting the machine up is a art in its own

Considering your described interest I'd go with MIG as the first priority and TIG second. You mentioned certification yet you say you are in this as a hobby, thus I'm wondering if there is acommercial side to this education? Commercially your education and job interest have to agree somewhat.

As far as Oxy/Acetylene welding goes, it is good to know but I'm not to sure I'd get to worked up over it. I just don't see a lot of welding done with O/A, brasing yes along with soldering but nto welding. Everything just about that can be O/A welded can be done with TIG and probably a lot better with TIG. I know there are members here that disagree with this assesment, but I see this as an old process that isn't used much anymore.

The other thing is that if you have already done O/A welding then taking the other courses may refresh the mind a bit.

As to certification I'm wondeirng why you are concerned about that if this is a Hobby. Maybe the EU and Ireland have different concerns but I don't see how certification would help. Atleast on this side of the pond. Welding for hire would be different of course.

A further word of advice is to not over do the education if you are working full itme. Take just one course. I did all of my AAS degree via night school 5 nights a week, working 50 to 60 hours a week and frankly it wasn't worth it. You mis out on everything. This is especially the case if you don't have job requirements based on the course work. Better to take the courses consectively and have a couple of days each week.

Dave

My though on learing o/a welding and mig is that with o/a you can do just about everything that you may run in to hobby wise and if you go GMAW (aka Mig) thats one machine to get and if planning to do small-medium production work going to run about $1000-1500 usd (rough guess)
GTAW (Tig) is great to know but IMO thats another chunk of $$ to sink in to another machine that wont be used often, o/a going to cost less then a decent Tig box, plus o/a can be used for cutting, basic pre-heating, welding and brasing/soldering as mentioned

Thanks for all the advice. I was worried that MIG was good for large panels such as on aircraft bodies, but that for lots of small welds on (for example a gate) it would take longer to keep setting up the feed rates than to just use MMA or TIG? Could someone clarify this please.

Re. hobby vs commercial, Im in full time employment right now so will be starting as a hobby in my spare time with a serious edge, because I want to go full time and get out of my current job as soon as I know I can make a steady income from my workshop (After 6mths or 1 year max). Hence Im buying equipment for light production as opposed to hobby, and production rates are an important consideration in the type of welding choice. My budget for the welder is €2000 with flexibility to go to €2500 if needed. Hopefully for this I'll get good capability with a decent duty cycle. It won't be used on a daily basis, but when it is I'll need it to be a workhorse and keep going until the order is turned out.

Re. the courses: The testing at the end is to either North American, British Standards, or another (Cant remember which, is there International or European standards?). You can get tested in two but your performance on the course will generally dictate which, the testing standards being higher for the American Standards than BS, and the third than the American I think.

Also, if & when I quit my job, if it all goes belly up, I can go to a building site as a qualified welder and a least cover the mortgage as I get sorted out!

re OA: Not sure I want to mess around with combustible gas without retraining. Other course might jog my memory for it but probably just enough for me to think I know more than I do with potentially bad results. :)

Thanks.

Edit: Im also going to get a plasma cutter so I wont need the OxyAcetylene for cutting, with this also in mind, will I need the OA for soldering/brazing enough to justify the outlay?

I really think you should go with mig. (to make gates and railings) Mig is fast, and clean enough for what you said your planning to weld. Once you weld (Mig) for a while you'll learn how to control your feedrate.
You don't need Tig for what you are wanting to do.

Also, only do one course at a time.

From my exp. I would go with Mig (gas), don't use that flux-core crap. :cheers:

Just like anything else when you go out to buy a welder, you get what you pay for, buy the very best machine you can afford, you won't regret it. Good luck on whatever class you take :cheers:

I learned to weld MANY years ago when a Lincoln Idealarc 250 STICK welder was considered sophisticated (as in AC/DC/DCREV). Took a welding class at a a local trade school (sound familiar???).

Anyway, the instructor taught us how to weld flat, up, down, overhead, in-place, thick, thin, thich to thin, etc. Several of us REALLY took a shine to it and passed the grade early. The instructor then took us asside and allowed us to try our hands at TIG (both mig and tig were available).

Why TIG? His position was that TIG required a combination of skills more like gas welding/brazing with regard to heat control and puddle creation. MIG was sort of like a stick welder without the regular break when you had to load a new "stick".

ALthough my first TIG wasn't perfect, it was "darn near certifiable" according to the instructor.

Point is this: learning to weld (TIG/MIG/Stick/Oxy A) is the mastering of a bunch of similar tasks albeit with differing mediums.

If you're going to weld bridges, then stick welding is still the method of choice followed closely by MIG.

Thin and/or precise stuff (as in aircraft) is probably best done with TIG.

Production steel jobs as in general fabricating or ornamental work would probably be more suited to MIG - simply because it is a 'point and shoot' type of deal.

Have owned a stick and more recenlty a MIG but have used/done all three and knowing what I know now, I'd buy a TIG to start.

TIG would quite effectively enable expand upon any gas welding/brazing experience I have. Besides, pretty much ANYTHING you'd want to weld (aluminum, steel, bronze, etc) can be done with TIG.

TIG is perhaps NOT as expedient nor as productive as MIG. But once I learned how to TIG weld, I contend that MIG and/or even the rare opportunity to STICK weld could be picked up in a snap. It is also much more versatile and encompasses a broader spectrum of materials....

Thanks for all the advice. I was worried that MIG was good for large panels such as on aircraft bodies, but that for lots of small welds on (for example a gate) it would take longer to keep setting up the feed rates than to just use MMA or TIG? Could someone clarify this please.

Personally I believe MIG is fastest to set up and produce large aounts of weld with. Stick being a very close second. I do not see TIG as a answer to the types of production work you want to do. Take that with a grain of salt, as I've only Stick and MIGed welded. Generally a MIG will be set up and ready to go for mild steel, in an application like yours. If you had to switch wires on a regular basis then MIG looses some speed.


Re. hobby vs commercial, Im in full time employment right now so will be starting as a hobby in my spare time with a serious edge, because I want to go full time and get out of my current job as soon as I know I can make a steady income from my workshop (After 6mths or 1 year max). Hence Im buying equipment for light production as opposed to hobby, and production rates are an important consideration in the type of welding choice.

Now I understand better. If you expect the materials you are working with to have wall thicknesses up to 5/16", you may do very well starting out with a 175 amp 220 volt class machine such as a Lincoln SP175+. Such a machine would limit your fianacial exposure but help get the business off the ground. Startups are tough and you are likely to need a many other items and as such cash demand will be high.

I would say within 6 - 12 months of going full time into the business, you should seriously consider a multiprocess welder such as a Lincoln 350MP. This to supplement your 175 amp machine, not to replace it. Go multiprocess to get Stick capability along with High power MIG capability. On this particular machine the TIG capability is of only marginal interest.

You may need to do so even earlier as the stick capabilty might be more of a requirement than estimated at the moment. Or get cheap buzz box to hold you over.


My budget for the welder is €2000 with flexibility to go to €2500 if needed. Hopefully for this I'll get good capability with a decent duty cycle. It won't be used on a daily basis, but when it is I'll need it to be a workhorse and keep going until the order is turned out.

Not knowing what the exchange rate is at the moment I can help a whole lot. I'm geussing the multiplier would be around 1.75. So that is about $4400 dolars, in the US that would buy alot of welder, maybe even a 350MP. I would think seriously about putting that much money into a welder up front. I'm thinking you could get started nicely with about $800 for a 175amp MIG and around $400 for a buzz box. Go a little more professional with a 210 amp MIG for around $1300 and a slightly better buzz box (AC/DC)for $600. The dollar amounts are somewhat off the top of my head.


Re. the courses: The testing at the end is to either North American, British Standards, or another (Cant remember which, is there International or European standards?). You can get tested in two but your performance on the course will generally dictate which, the testing standards being higher for the American Standards than BS, and the third than the American I think.

Probably ISO standards.


Also, if & when I quit my job, if it all goes belly up, I can go to a building site as a qualified welder and a least cover the mortgage as I get sorted out!

Better to go into business with the attitude that you will succeed. Besides, atleast in this area you don't want to be making a welders salary. Think about going into business as business man and not a welder, welding just being part of the business.


re OA: Not sure I want to mess around with combustible gas without retraining. Other course might jog my memory for it but probably just enough for me to think I know more than I do with potentially bad results. :)

If you where trianed once I still have to think that some of that knowledge is still between the ears. You are right to be concerned about safety, to few are, but I'd see what the courses you take cover first. I just don't see you doing a lot of O/A welding, cutting yes, brazing and heat maybe, but not a lot of welding.


Thanks.

Edit: Im also going to get a plasma cutter so I wont need the OxyAcetylene for cutting, with this also in mind, will I need the OA for soldering/brazing enough to justify the outlay?
Well it all depends on wether you need to heat and bend anything. If the answer is yes then a O/A outfit may be needed or maybe a propane torch. Not a little plumbers propane torch either. In part it depends on where your business goes, if you focus on new production and fabrication then you may not have a pressing need for an O/A torch. If you get involved with work on existing structures it will be hard to get by without an O/A system. In the end you are likly to want to round out your tool supply with an O/A set or a propane fired torch. I'm not really thinking welding here either.

In any event do realize that most plasma systems will have you also buying a air compressor. Not a bad thing to have of course. With all of this stuff you will still need a band saw too. Plus a whole bunch of hand tools.

Thanks
Dave

man you all like to beat on the o/a like its a dead art (chair)
part of the reason I suggested that route was to control cost, why put money in to something thats not going to get used too much (like a tig box mine was around $3000+/-)

Multi process machine isnt the route to go IMO unless your planning a really large shop, something around a miller 210 GMAW machine should cover about anything you might need to do starting off, plus if you grow to the point of needing to hire more people to work for you and buy more welders it will be still useable

Plasma cutters are great, but really take a good look at what you will be doing with it, if your planning CNC table plasma go for it, if your just planning to be cutting that barstock with it, get a good horizontal bandsaw (I wish I had done this)

As for anything, do alot of research and planning, look at the materials you want to weld, think about what you might find yourself looking to do with it

IMO most importan when looking at welding equipment check the duty cycles on them, see how long you can weld with it cause you are planning a production set up, 40% duty cycle on a welder for example means 4 mins welding 6 mins letting the machine cool down (most duty cycles are based off 10min base) try to choose a machine that will run close to 80-90% duty cycle @ rated settings for what you will be welding most in the shop, IMO the worst thing you can do in this is buy a machine that you will out grow fast, that seems like to me throwing money away

Also one other thing to keep in mind is parts for the machines you chose, make sure before hand that parts and consumables are avalible localy, if you have a machine down and cant get replacements fast, thats lost money right there


Just a few quick thoughts off the top of my head

Wolf~
btw my shop I run a Miller Dynasty 200dx GTAW box and Hypertherm 1000 plasma and I'm now stuck needing a mig for what I'm doing, I dont have my CNC plasma table built yet so up to now I feel that the plasma is a great toy BUT about the useless peice of equipment I own at the moment (least till its CNCed :cool:

You write: "because I want to go full time and get out of my current job as soon as I know I can make a steady income from my workshop (After 6mths or 1 year max)."

Seriously; don't be so optimistic, make it 2 years to 3 years and also recognise you will never 'know' you will be able to make a steady income. When you have taken the plunge you just keep plugging along and eventually discover you have a success on your hands, or not. I speak from experience; this year I celebrate the 25th anniversary of establishing my business. Among otjer products we make lightweight steel tube fabrications and I say get a MIG, around 180 - 200 amp with a good duty cycle, it will do everything you need and it is easy to learn. TIG can do nice welds but it has a steeper learning curve and is something you can get into when you find you have a product that needs it.

Someone else suggested a horizontal bandsaw, this a chopsaw and a good Sawzall are all you need for cutting the metal. Get an oxyacetylene kit because it is handy for burning off bits of metal that are difficult to get in the saw and also heating for bending. Initially don't worry about a plasma unit, when you have identified something that can use it then get it.

Regarding the course work take as much as you can handle; two at 3 hours a week each is trivial even if you are working full time. If you cannot handle this you will never handle getting your own business up and running.

Wow, thanks a million all. There's a phenomenal wealth of experience here. Some serious food for thought. And thanks for taking the time to write such detailed replies. :cheers:

wizard:
I'll put more consideration and analysis into my welding budget and requirements, maybe I was thinking a bit of overkill. Obviously if I can go cheaper then I will, but I do want to keep some excess capability.

Im looking a wide product portfolio outside those already mentioned so not putting all my eggs in one basket. Welding will be but one of many fabrication tools, and I definately intend to succeed. I have family responsibilities that I would never neglect on some crazy fad of running a business :nono: . I get a buzz out of working hard and long when its for myself and I get satisfaction for myself instead of thanks (Or no thanks!) from someone else.......maybe Im weird... :rolleyes:

The whole bunch of hand tools (And a load of workshop tools - Drill Press, Cabinet Saw, Chop Saw, Thicknesser/Planer....etc etc) is already selected, priced, sourced and budgeted for. Plus Im gonna get a discount :D

wolfmetalfab:
My initial funding isn't coming through until next February ('SSIA' -look at http://www.myadviser.ie/index_template.htm#1 & scroll down to 'SSIA's are Good For You because' to see. Or view the many other similar sites!) and the research/planning started a few months ago. Some people would say too early....but Im not one of those people. ;)

The plasma cutter will be cnc. It was in Stage one of my plan and the table in Stage two, but I'm gonna move it to stage two now. No point having it just sitting there waiting for the cnc table. Thanks.

Geof:
6-12 months I know is probably optimistic, but I figure they're my first two big review points to see how its going. The 'clock' will start from my first advertisement. I suppose I might have to extend them later.

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:Congrats on the 25 years :banana: :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

I was getting a bandsaw and chop saw, but Im gonna scratch off the bandsaw for now. Sawzall is included in hand tools budget. Thanks.

If I identify more relevant courses in my area Im sure I'll do them, but Im in the middle of a 4 year honours bachelors degree at the moment aswell...so kinda busy! :)

I'll let you all know what courses I end up doing. Thanks again.

I don't see O/A that way at all. Rather I see it as an art that has its place but has been supplanted by other technologies for main stream usage. Any good metal fabricator will have use for a torch of some type, I just don't see such torches being used for welding very much.

I could very well be biased but base my comments on what I see in industry. I'm also not referring to brazing or silver soldering when talking about gas welding. I've seen both of these processes used much more often than gas welding.

Dave



man you all like to beat on the o/a like its a dead art (chair)
part of the reason I suggested that route was to control cost, why put money in to something thats not going to get used too much (like a tig box mine was around $3000+/-)

..... some crazy fad of running a business...

Thank you for the dancing bananas but I should box your ears for calling running a business a crazy fad! Crazy maybe, but for me never a fad.

What are you doing your degree in? If it is not tooooo cheeky to ask.

Wow, thanks a million all. There's a phenomenal wealth of experience here. Some serious food for thought. And thanks for taking the time to write such detailed replies. :cheers:

wizard:
I'll put more consideration and analysis into my welding budget and requirements, maybe I was thinking a bit of overkill. Obviously if I can go cheaper then I will, but I do want to keep some excess capability.

I don't know if it is overkill or not, as each time you post a different picture gets built up in my mind of what you want to do. Be carefull about the shotgun approach to business. Sure you want to make your customers happy but trying to cover to wide a swath at start up can be an issue.

I take it that you are in the EU some place. At this moment in time I'm thinking that you need more than a 175 amp MIG welder. You certainly have the budget for more. Since I have no idea what the pricing is on American made welders in the EU I can't help with a specific model. It may pay to list out the types of materials you expect to be working with in the near future with the dimensions. This combines with your expected usage rate should help you zero in on your first welder.

I do know that the monies you talked about, translated into US dollars would buy one heck of a nice welder. Or two welders, which might not be a bad idea, a MIG and a AC/DC stick machine. That should keep you viable for years.


Im looking a wide product portfolio outside those already mentioned so not putting all my eggs in one basket. Welding will be but one of many fabrication tools, and I definately intend to succeed. I have family responsibilities that I would never neglect on some crazy fad of running a business :nono: . I get a buzz out of working hard and long when its for myself and I get satisfaction for myself instead of thanks from someone else.......maybe Im weird... :rolleyes:

That is nice, but to many veggies in the pot make for a funny tasting soup.

As to working for somebody else that is the situation that I'm in now. Here I've never recieved a thank you to amount to anything. The department manager is never seen and the work load continues to pile up. The only satisfaction I get is often a comment form the machine operator or the personal high of fixing something that no body else did.


The whole bunch of hand tools (And a load of workshop tools - Drill Press, Cabinet Saw, Chop Saw, Thicknesser/Planer....etc etc) is already selected, priced, sourced and budgeted for. Plus Im gonna get a discount :D

Sounds like a good portion of this enterprise involves wood.


wolfmetalfab:
My initial funding isn't coming through until next February ('SSIA' -look at http://www.myadviser.ie/index_template.htm#1 & scroll down to 'SSIA's are Good For You because' to see. Or view the many other similar sites!) and the research/planning started a few months ago. Some people would say too early....but Im not one of those people. ;)

The plasma cutter will be cnc. It was in Stage one of my plan and the table in Stage two, but I'm gonna move it to stage two now. No point having it just sitting there waiting for the cnc table. Thanks.

Geof:
6-12 months I know is probably optimistic, but I figure they're my first two big review points to see how its going. The 'clock' will start from my first advertisement. I suppose I might have to extend them later.

Just to interject here, don't rely on simple advertisement. Getting a business going involves networking, advertising and marketing, yes a bunch of dirty multi letter words. Timing can be important to.

I was getting a bandsaw and chop saw, but Im gonna scratch off the bandsaw for now. Sawzall is included in hand tools budget. Thanks.

Carefull about the bandsaw. They are a very usefull tool. The quality of the cut makes for nice looking assemblies if the joints and welds are visible. I'am confused as to how much of this venture is going to be metal related. So you have to make your own decisions.


If I identify more relevant courses in my area Im sure I'll do them, but Im in the middle of a 4 year honours bachelors degree at the moment aswell...so kinda busy! :)

I'll let you all know what courses I end up doing. Thanks again.

A break from time to time is good to.

I don't know if it is overkill or not, as each time you post a different picture gets built up in my mind of what you want to do. Be carefull about the shotgun approach to business. Sure you want to make your customers happy but trying to cover to wide a swath at start up can be an issue.....That is nice, but to many veggies in the pot make for a funny tasting soup.
Im sorry, I should have elaborated a bit originally to help you all advise me but I didn't want to load the post with irrelevant information. What I originally intended was very basic and summerised in the four lines below. Below is a full synopsis of what Im intending to do now.

-----------------------------------------------------
I will be fabricating gates and fences out of wood.
I will be fabricating gates, fences and railings out of metal.
I will be fabricating gates, fencing, and railings out of a combination of both wood and metal.
There will be a strong artistic edge to most of my designs.
-----------------------------------------------------

WOOD:
A lot of the wood designs will incorporate artistic wood burning which I was going to do manually but have decide to do using laser. I will also use laser to engrave glass panels for some of the designs.
They will also involve wood carving for which I am going to build a cnc router.
The carving and laser will initially mainly be on panels built in to the designs as I do not have experience with cnc or funds for large machines yet, and I want to build a small machine first. Short term (<1yr) I think I will use these plans for a 3' x 2' router http://www.solsylva.com/ but am constantly looking at different ones on this site. I hope in the medium term when I have more experience (<5yr) I will build a new large router to enable me to custom carve entire gates.

METAL:
For the construction of Iron gates, fencing and railings I will require welding and other metalworking capability. I will require a cnc plasma cutter for cutting artistic designs to incorporate in these (Im sure you have seen many. eg: The shape of horses on gates into a stud farm.) I am hoping that the building of above small cnc router table will give me some form of a knowledge basis for building a 4'x8' or 4'x4' plasma table as soon as possible, but probably stretching into the medium term (I estimate starting in year 2). I have never seen iron gates, fences or railings constructed with larger than 1.25" diameter or thickness bar. If there is they must be either very specialist and/or very big and I dont intend to offer them as a product initially. This is what I used to decide my maximum welding capacity. (Not very scientific I know! ;) )

METAL & WOOD:
I have various designs on paper, CAD drawn, & in my head, which involve various aspects of both of the above to result in individual, economical, and attractive types of design which I haven't seen offered in this country thus far and I believe there would be a market for.

-------------------------------------------------------

OTHER:
I will have a wide variety of equipment and obviously I want to maximise its use. It is because of this that I have expanded my product portfolio to take advantage of the capabilities, and the knowledge that my cnc machines can work away while I am working on something else in the shop.

For example: My laser engraver can engrave crystal and wood burn. Also my cnc router can carve. And I will be able to do metalwork. I thought 'I can take advantage of this by making plaques'. I would like to be able to do blind welds in stainless steel or aluminium for these, is MIG ok for this?

I thought 'I can turn custom pens using the wood lathe'. I may offer these complimentary for free with my larger gate etc type orders as I can allocate a day or two every month to turn out a supply for the following month. From my research they seem to take about 20min per pen.

I may also take advantage of the lathe to turn other items such as bowls.

I can produce other craft type items such as clocks using crystal/glass/wood/metal.

There will undoubtedly be types of signs, from house numbers to company logos and information incorporated within some of the gate/fence/railing designs, and I thought I could utilise this capability to offer signmaking.

I also intend to offer a selection of decorative house number/nameplate designs carved on the router and cut on the plasma cutter as another use for these capabilities.

In the medium term (<5yr) I will analyse the capability to offer some garden furniture and supplies.

Most of the above smaller items I will only have a few designs for so as not to overload myself and I will make them on an individual order basis, or a few at a time to cover any orders that might come in that month. Then I can simply sell/ship them as requested and as an extra avenue of income. Some like plaques will have a few examples and I will make them on an individual basis as and when requires. I am taking advantage of the capability to produce the smaller items to allow me to sell products over the internet.
I think I will use OSCommerce http://www.oscommerce.com/ for my website initially.

One of my biggest worries which Im sure consumes every startup is the thought of simply not receiving enough orders, I also don't know what road I will end up being taken down by demand for the different products. If there are too many orders coming in....touch wood! :D....I can cut back, change focus, or expand. This bridge will be crossed and any decision made at the time.

Sounds like a good portion of this enterprise involves wood.

Yes :)

Carefull about the bandsaw. They are a very usefull tool. The quality of the cut makes for nice looking assemblies if the joints and welds are visible. I'am confused as to how much of this venture is going to be metal related. So you have to make your own decisions.
No, I apologise, Im confusing myself now! :D I am purchasing a bandsaw but not a horizontal metal cutting bandsaw, just a cutoff saw. I am purchasing a vertical Scheppach vario Bandsaw to use for wood, and also metal when needed.

A break from time to time is good to.
Tell me what thats like I can't remember!.........:D only kidding, I do relax.....the wife says too much!

Sorry Geof
I didn't mean it was a crazy fad for others, I was just emphasising that its not for me either. ;)

I forgot after all that typing in the last post! The degree is a Bachelors of Science Honours in Transport Engineering. Doing it in the Dublin Institute of Technology http://www.dit.ie where the welding night courses that Im doing are run. It covers all aspects of the different transport modes, Road, Rail, Sea and Air. Its quite interesting.

Actually!!! I just opened it in another window to get the link...but visit this link http://www.dit.ie/DIT/study/parttime/az.html and scroll down to the 5th group of courses. The three welding ones Im trying to choose between are the last 3 under Faculty of Engineering in that group. Thanks. :)

They dont say anything about the British Standards but the page probably hasn't been updated because I got my info from the guy who runs the course.

You have to look at things in more of a MODULAR fashion.

Pursuant to your PRIMARY objective per post 28 (metal fab of artistic gates out of wood/metal): All you need is a decent MIG - PERIOD.

In my case, I learned stick welding FIRST. That skill was easily parlayed into TIG welding almost as soon as I picked up the TIG torch.

When I finally bought a mig, the STICK/TIG skills enabled me to figure out how to match/exceed my STICK/TIG skills with the MIG in about 20 minutes. Once you STICK weld and then MIG weld, the MIG spoils you - PERIOD.

Now, when you add the non-ferrous/stainless module, you can weld with MIG but you'll do MUCH nicer and more precise work with TIG - the STICK experience is credited for facilitating the ability to do TIG right away as the skills overlap.

BTW. I worked in an automotive fab/prototype shop for several years - lots of small weld jobs/materials of varying degrees of intricacy.

NONE of the fab guys welded with MIG unless it was a high volume steel fab job - as in race car chassis or other stuff that you didn't want to do in an interrupted fashion.

The small welds and odd position welds were ALL done with TIG - even some of the steel tacking. Any non-ferrous or stainless work (mostly headers) was ALL done with TIG.

I still contend that once you learn how to TIG weld, the MIG welding is a snap. Half a dozen pro fabricators who preferred TIG over MIG for work EXACTLY like you're talking about doing can't be that far off....

Lincoln makes a real nice "Century" brand of MIG which is what I have - easy to use and quite versatile. My model cost $750 as I recall and includes spot and stitch weld capability - it would EASILY handle your initial and anticipated work.

If you go TIG, don't get a "scratch" type - get the foot power control. I"m sort of partial to Miller TIG (that's what the fab guys used) over the Lincoln but haven't looked at the latest stuff.

If I had it to do over, I'd still buy a GOOD TIG as my first welder if for NO other reason than optimum versatility.

A MIG could come later and a STICK welder only when/if I started to do bridge construction - my like new, 35 year old Idealarc 250 stick welder is like new and merely holds up a tool box anymore.... Amazing how priorities change.

Hi Again;

Well you do seem to have narrowed things down a littel bit in post # 20. Atleast initially, then we get the shotgun approach agian.

First commenting on the welding side of the buiness:
A good portion of what you want to do can be done very well with a MIG welder. A 175 amp 220 volt unit should be seen as minimal with a 250 amp 220 volt unit at the high end of the scale. Any of these class machine or anything in between will be well within your budget for a welder.

The only thing I have reservations about with respect to welders is your statement about the usage of BAR STOCK. Especially 1.25" or so bar, this is really the type of work best done with a Stick welder. Nothing fancy but AC/DC would be very nice. There are a couple of reasons for this, one the smaller MIGs won't handle that thickness well at all. Even if you have a MIG large enough to handle that material you would not want to go through a set up everytime you need to handle that size stock. So if you expect to do alot of this size material add stick capability to your list.

Now all of this is great but what do you do if on site welding is needed. Something to think about if you get into metal fencing especially commercial. Thus you may have a need for portability in this mix. How you handle that is up to you, and could be a portable MIG, and inverter based Stick / TIG or a gas powered unit. Obviusly the goal would be to do as much as possible in the shop but you can't discount the need to field weld. I'm not sure this has been in your thought processes.

As to the other side of the business I'd focus on the fencing and getting your CNC router up and running. Put to good use a CNC router can have a signifcant impact on your ability to do fencing and related signage. After it is integrated into the fence making business then consider expansions into other offerings that the machine would make practicle. As far as the gifts, trinkets and promotional items I'd go to china for them, except for possibly a very big contract with a values client. I'd avoid going to far off this path with thing far removed from fence building at startup. One it is a distraction and two it might confuse the customers.

Like the CNC router I can see where a plasma machine would fit very well into the fence making business. Like the router I'd want to get that capability into the business early, maybe even before the router. Like wise I'd want to see it first applied to the fencing projects proper and then expand the offering into other areas. Here again signage would incorporate into this business much in the same way. There are a lot of commercial possibilities here also beyond signage.

The only thing I'd be concerned about with either the router or plasma is the build it yourself approach. I'd want one of them in the business at startup as I believe they can be a unique offering in the field. It is purely a time thing and something that I see a saleable and that can be leveraged right from the begining. I'd imagine in Ireland that there are more than a few fence builders, but ask yourself how many of them have any CNC capability at all. This also assumes that you have the artistic capability and the ability with software.

Believe me I'm much a build it yourself type of guy. Just that this is business and I'm looking for something to set you apart from the competition. The other course of action is to build the machine before you go full time.

Thanks
dave

....The degree is a Bachelors of Science Honours in Transport Engineering. Doing it in the Dublin Institute of Technology http://www.dit.ie where the welding night courses that Im doing are run. It covers all aspects of the different transport modes, Road, Rail, Sea and Air. Its quite interesting.....

Curioser and curioser (have you read Carroll? Lewis, that is; Dobson the mathematician for the cognoscenti) one would never have thought that a degree in Transport Engineering was a prerequisite for making wood and metal fences and gates. :D

Curioser and curioser (have you read Carroll? Lewis, that is; Dobson the mathematician for the cognoscenti) one would never have thought that a degree in Transport Engineering was a prerequisite for making wood and metal fences and gates. :D

lol...no comment! ;)

wizard

Your right. But Im going to have nightmares about someone in a pointy hat shouting the words 'shotgun approach' at me now for weeks!! :)

On a more serious note. I obviously wont be able to do everything all at once. I do intend to focus on the core business and then see about drifting into other areas. Just ideas swimming about and I like to prepare for everything in advance so Im trying to ask questions that will get answers allowing for what I think I will expand into. This way I wont buy equipment that doesn't allow this flexibility if/when I need it. But your advice is hugely helpful and Im going to look again at my equipment priorities.

Im not sure if you caught my earlier post fully, but Im in full time employment and for the first year (Or as Geof said to allow for 2 to 3 years) this business will be part time which will allow me to ease in and also allow me to enjoy the experience of building my cnc systems.

I've gotta go....to be continued. Sry.....

I'm sitting here wondering what a pointy hat has to do with the term "shotgun approach". A cammo hat and netting yes point hat no, you don't want to be seen with a shotgun you know! :boxing: :violin:

Dave

lol...no comment! ;)
Your right. But Im going to have nightmares about someone in a pointy hat shouting the words 'shotgun approach' at me now for weeks!! :)
.

Wizard = pointy hat! :D

Remember plan, plan, discus with friends/associates, plan some more, make a business plan, and then plan to make more plans when you wake up.

But remember, NO PLAN SURVIVES THE BATTLE FEILD! PERIOD! (don't let that stop the planning sessions though)

:cheers:

Ok everyone, apologies for having to cut my last post short. Just to finish up.

Thanks for all the advice. Understandably all processes have some advantages. Im going to wait until the courses are about 3/4 way through then start shopping for my welder/s, the cash isn't going anywhere, I'll have more experience to base my purchase on, and I'll post a thread to decide on a model at the time.

Im intending to do two courses.

Im going to do the Gas Shielded Arc Welding which covers MIG/MAG and TAGS as No.1 priority as overall Mig seems to be the main recommendation.

As No.2 priority Im going to do the MMA Advanced Plate and Pipe which covers MMA and TIG. I was wavering between this and the third course but NcCams post tilted me towards gaining the TIG knowledge. Thankyou.

Hopefully they wont conflict and I can do both. If they do conflict then I'll do the Mig and the third choice which is the MMA and Oxy-Acetylene Program. In this case I'll be missing out on the TIG but I have to judge by the majority of the posts which say Mig. And also, with either of the last two I'll at least get the MMA capability. Theres also the option to do the third course the following year anyway.

After reading back through the thread a few times I realised how sidetracked I was getting, thanks wizard (Pointy Hat...Well spotted miljnor. :) ). Im going to ignore the 'fiddley bits' and concentrate on the core business, I can worry about anything else later. This also alters my plan & budget in such a way as its much easier to prioritise what equipments needed first, and to fund it.

I have one final short question to throw out there:

What is the TAGS welding process?

Thanks again.
L8rs.

.

Hi folks.


I know I said in the last post that I wouldn't shop for a welder yet but I couldnt resist at least looking! (flame2)

Here is the Lincoln 350MP.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Lincoln-Power-MIG-350MP-Professional-Welder-K2403-1_W0QQitemZ7629654342QQcategoryZ113743QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

What do ye all think about buying it first?
My thinking is that Im not big into buying average machinery and then having to upgrade later at the added cost that entails. If I just buy this at the start, it does MIG, Pulsed, TIG, and Stick, so all my bases are covered in case I need any of the processes later on. It also avoids buying a MIG and buzz box to start and then having to buy this later anyway when this will do all & more that the two small ones would do.....
Im a bit perplexed...there is a LONG list of accessories down the right hand side of the page....I figure this would add a lot to the cost, but could I buy the accessories for lets say the MIG and Stick, then later if I need TIG or whatever I will buy those accessories for less than an entirely new TIG machine? Is there anything NOT included in the displayed price that I will absolutely need to get started?

Good duty cycle. Good amperage. good flexibility. Its just above my price limit but I figure I can stretch to get a decent bit of kit....so...what do the experts think....:D

Thanks in advance all....

Edit: HEY!! I just checked the Lincoln site and the list price there is $6337....where did the extra cost come from....am I missing something on e-bay?? :confused:
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=40033

Hi folks.


I know I said in the last post that I wouldn't shop for a welder yet but I couldnt resist at least looking! (flame2)

Well you just proved you are like the rest of us.


Here is the Lincoln 350MP.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Lincoln-Power-MIG-350MP-Professional-Welder-K2403-1_W0QQitemZ7629654342QQcategoryZ113743QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

What do ye all think about buying it first?

Well it is considered to be the best in its class. In fact it might be the only one in its class. As to buying it first if you expect to have a business primarly focused on metal working I'd be all for it. But I don't think that is the case so the question becomes a bit more difficult to answer. I'd still avoid bying until your course work is done and you have a better understanding of what you need.

My thinking is that Im not big into buying average machinery and then having to upgrade later at the added cost that entails. If I just buy this at the start, it does MIG, Pulsed, TIG, and Stick, so all my bases are covered in case I need any of the processes later on. It also avoids buying a MIG and buzz box to start and then having to buy this later anyway when this will do all & more that the two small ones would do.....

Be aware that the TIG is only DC from the latest info I have. That may be a problem is Aluminum is in your future. As to replacing two machines I'm not sure that is a valid point. This is one machine that can't be split to handle differrent work in different locals. Further it won't be easy to move around by hand and it will be difficult to hang overhead to service a large portion of your shop. A small MIG, that is hand portable, really should be considered in a differrent spectrum than something like this. In other words you are comparing Apples to Oranges.

Im a bit perplexed...there is a LONG list of accessories down the right hand side of the page....I figure this would add a lot to the cost, but could I buy the accessories for lets say the MIG and Stick, then later if I need TIG or whatever I will buy those accessories for less than an entirely new TIG machine? Is there anything NOT included in the displayed price that I will absolutely need to get started?

Most likely a bunch of stuff. That is one reason I'd hate to see you tie to much money up in just the welder box. Much more is needed. Some tools you will need you won't even think aobut until you need them.


Good duty cycle. Good amperage. good flexibility. Its just above my price limit but I figure I can stretch to get a decent bit of kit....so...what do the experts think....:D

If you have a price limit stick to it unless you can make a very good business argument for chaning plans. There may be good reason t so a little overtime might put you in the right price range.


Thanks in advance all....

Edit: HEY!! I just checked the Lincoln site and the list price there is $6337....where did the extra cost come from....am I missing something on e-bay?? :confused:
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=40033

Maybe that is the Irish cost! ;)

Seriously though list price and actual selling price are two different things. You should be able to get a significant discount over the list price. Even on small machines I was seeing discounts of about 20% when looking around for a MIG welder. I would imagine that imported machines do cost more in Ireland but I'm not sure how much. If you go E-Bay you run into the issue of importing the machine yourself. You still may win though.

Dave

Ahhh....once again the voice of reason prevails. :) Thanks wizard. I really really REALLY have to stop finding ways to increase my capital expenditure without the possibility of quickly increasing my funding to match......the overkill bogie strikes again.
Bye 4 now.

Well atleast I'm not wearing my pointy hat!

By the way I don't think the 350MP is over kill just that it doesn't seem to fit the funding. Not a big worry as it can be purchased later down the road when the business is off and running. I'm just worried about all the businesses that fail early because of the lack of working capital. A 175 amp class MIG will get you started in the work you describe very well and can be supplimented with a small stick welder.

Besides I think you may find yourself needing a welder for field work. If that welder happens to become a gas powered unit it can be correctly sized to work with the small MIG welder. That gives you a lot of field capability.

Thanks
Dave

The reason for the price jump is that e-bay listing is for a push model, and the lincoln site is for a push/pull. The push/pull model is wickedly cool for mig welding aluminum, as there is a motor in the gun head that pulls the aluminum wire. This lets you weld without a spool gun. I know you can get away with welding aluminum with a short gun cable, but much over 15 feet and the aluminum won't feed down the tube. It will just make a bird nest after the drive roles.

Hi folks. Ok, lets have all your professional opinions on these. I can buy them at my local store which is obviously an advantage for service, and the more tools I buy from them, the bigger my discount!! :D Are they suitable for my intended purpose? Are they missing any features? Is the amps & duty cycle ok?

I have put a '?' beside features that I don't understand if someone can explain their purpose adv/disadv please. :)

MIG:
SIP Ideal Super 240 - €1395 ($1744)
0.6 to 1mm wire
Feed Speed 2 to 16 m/min
200amp @ 60% Duty Cycle
16 Pwr Settings from 40 to 240 Amps
TurboFanCooled
Thermal Overload Protection
Can Use with Gas
Euro Torch
Dinse Socket ?
Burn Back ?
Stitch Weld Timer ?
Spot Weld Timer ?
Two Roller Wire Feed
Wheel Mounted
Copper Wound Transformer ? Aint they all copper?
Lifting Eyes
5 Year Main Transformer Warranty
2 Year Overall Warranty
ExtraLowCurrent Performance ?
Accessories Included
115kg

Stick:
SIP Turboweld 8 - €300 ($375)
40 to 190 Amp
Up to 4mm electrode
Double Vortex Transformer ?
TurboFan Cooled
Fully Portable
Dual Voltage 230V/400V
Double Shunt System ?
Class H Insulation ?
IP21 Protection ?
29kg

Thanks in advance all. :)

Edit: I especially like that both of these still free's up nearly 1k of my welder budget for other items. :-)

Hmmm....well, any comments?

Just bump this up again now that all you Americans are finished work for the day! :)

Just bump this up again now that all you Americans are finished work for the day! :)

That won't help because I doubt anybody in this country has even heard of the welders quoted.

I hate to rely on specifications without getting comments from people respected in the field that have actually used the equipment. So anything that follows hee is likely to be of limited value to you.

The first thing that bothers me about the MIG is that you mention 16 power settings for current (40 to 240 amps). That right there bothers me. First your setings should be for wire speed and voltage. Wire speed should be variable and not have "settings". So we need to figure out what is beign advertised here, it almost sounds like the company doesn't understand MIG.

As to the copper wound transformer: Nope some use aluminum. Aluminum likely can work well for a MIG but there may be a differnce in life verses copper. As to the other features you will find out in class if you need them. You likely don't need them.

Sometimes a discount doesn't really mean much if the equipment isn't up to snuff. So you need to consider some opinons from some talented welders (if you can find them) that have actually used the welders.

As to the stick welder I think it comes up a bit short in current, but is apparently a portable so that may make up for it. Make sure the portable is inverter based without the need for "re-linking" the input. Otherwise I'd skip it if it was transformer based. A good inverter based machine should operate at any voltage between 230 and 400 and maybe a little lower. In one sense it is a nice little portable but frankly I'd have to say it is a bit limited for your first stick welder. Maybe the portability factor outweighs the capacity issue. Generally when I think about first portables I think about MIG/Flux core welders, but then again most people would think the opposite of that so consider how you want to approach your portable needs.

I'd go back to the Millerr and Lincoln sites to see what is up and maybe shop around for a better local supplier. Also I just got a E-Mail from Lincoln offering their brand new TIG machine. ESAB is also something to look into and being that they are foriegn to this country you might have better luck with them than people here do.

In any event like it would be difficult to give a thumbs up or down on the equipment. I'm thinking this is the same comapny that makes the Clarke line of welders. If so I'd be concerned about the stuff being low end.

Thanks
Dave

Here is the best internet link I could find to the Mig welder, but it doesn't give much info. My info is from the SIP Product Catalog:

http://www.toolsnstuff.co.uk/product_info.php?pName=Ideal-Super-240-Industrial-Mig-Welder-1-Phase&products_id=161&osCsid=fa7c047604ec5f58d2168eed2cf17c97&cPath=1_24

Thanks for the comments wizard. I'll keep looking and find out about the inverter/transformer. I'll also see if I can track down a user (The welding equipment kind! :) ). On the Mig it says it has a 'Solid state control module' and a 'Permanent magnet motor wire feed mechanism' but I dont know if that gives any clues. Im not too worried about the quality because theres the two warranties so how bad could it actually be if they can give two warranties? I think the 16 power settings alter the amps not the wire feed speed. I can always get a better stick machine, they're quite cheap. Im shocked at the difference in price between them and the MIG's! Ok, thats all for now.
L8rs.

Im not too worried about the quality because theres the two warranties so how bad could it actually be if they can give two warranties? I

I'm not sure you really meant to ask that question but it can be pretty bad. Atleast some of the Chinese imports are almost useless as MIGs, stick wedlers are another thing though.

As far as SIP goes I only have this long forgotten memory that they are made in Europe. I could be totally wrong so don't take my word for it. Even if the are made in Europe that doesn't really reflect on the machines quality. That is why you need to find commercial users of the machines.

Atleast the MIG welder as I see that being a key component of your enterprise. The stick welde rI'd only be concerned that it works as a DC welder and is portable.

Dave

As far as SIP goes I only have this long forgotten memory that they are made in Europe. I could be totally wrong so don't take my word for it. Even if the are made in Europe that doesn't really reflect on the machines quality. That is why you need to find commercial users of the machines.
Dave

Hey!! Made In Europe = Excellent Quality :D

I think they're made in the UK. Your right, I do need to find a user of it. Im sure the seller can put me in touch with someone. We shall see. :)

L8rs.

I talked to a welder today. He's never had a SIP machine, but has had and used a couple of other brands over the years, and he knew of the SIP brand. He said its quite good and I shouldn't have any problems. He also makes some gates which is part of what I want to do and he said it sounded fine for that. L8rs.

Hey!! Made In Europe = Excellent Quality :D

Highly debatable, but lets not pull the thread off track ;)

In any event I think you really need to consdier a few things outside of the price of the welder. If you are using the machine professionally service and support is very important. For that you need a good local dealer.

The reality is that you have not described anything that I'd call fancy as far as welding goes. So I wouldn't expect you to need a really outlandish welder for stick work. For MIG work though I'd be much more careful because the feeding of the wire is so important. If the comemnts you have gotten till now are OK then I might consider the MIG. Do realize though that one comment is not enough.

So this kinda means I'm not objecting to the stick welder, but have reservations abotu the MIG. Those reservations are mostly due to the lack of knowledge on the machine coupled with its cost. In other words you have a modest exposure with respect to your stick but more of an exposure on the MIG.

Dave


I think they're made in the UK. Your right, I do need to find a user of it. Im sure the seller can put me in touch with someone. We shall see. :)

L8rs.

Just for general information, I was talking to the registrations office again today about my courses and some organisational genius decided that they would all be run on the same night! So Im stuck doing just one, and will have to wait until next March to do a second one. I told her I'll do the MIG. Hope I made the right choice. :) L8rs.

Hi all again.
I spent the day welding today...feel a bit dizzy! Indoors, no PAPR, no extractor. Anyway....I did some MIG and some Stick. The MIG is quite a bit easier than the stick, much less skill, or so it seemed to me, but neither are extraodinarily difficult. Just a matter of practise I suppose and Im still going to do the course. The SIP welder it seems is a good choice, one of the lads owned one and he said they're an excellent make. Im a bit worried about getting a single phase after using both 1 and 3 phase and the 3ph had a lot more power than the 1ph, although the 3 ph was a 300Amp and 1ph was just 140Amp. Anyway, I figure the single phase will be ok for me initially, and its 240Amp is more powerful than the 1ph I was using today. I was given an auto-darkening helmet which didn't auto darken and it took me a while to realise, so looking forward to waking tonight with arc-eye. :( So there we go. L8rs. :)

Somewhere in this thread you described what you intend to make (I think).

Go to this link:

http://www.gardeniron.co.uk/product_browser.asp?filterType=all

Thanks Geof. I've been looking at different products & designs for a while now and the more ideas and designs I see the better.

Hi all. So my course is all sorted out. Expected to start 24th Sept. Now I have a new question! Can either the MIG or Stick process be used for welding alumimium?

Thanks. :)

Among other things you plan on building gates. When you build one bigger than this I will concede bragging rights. Twenty four feet wide, almost 8 feet high, bifold opening, weight (steel only) over 700 lbs. It will get a wooden finish the same as the fence.

:D The early construction of Fort Knox! But for all that gate, you forgot that your fence design makes a nice ladder with easily removable panels....;)

Hi all. So the course is paid for, starting Mon 25th Sept. 3hrs each Mon night until next March. Covering MIG and some stick. :D Thanks again for all the advice. Business plans are working along. Im in the process of just buying equipment as I get cash instead of having just one huge expenditure when my savings mature. Doing a couple of other things in the meantime and parallel ;)

Started the course. It involves steel MIG, aluminium and stainless TIG. Im probably doing the MIg but one extra person wants this so we'll have to fight it out! ;) Also hoping to do the aluminium TIG since they dont do aluminium MIG. Said it costs too much to train people in. Anyway, you can take however many of the 3 tests you want at the end so hopefully I'll take those two, but might just take one and concentrate on passing it. Dont want to take 3 tests and then fail my X-Ray or whatever. Looking at three different types of MIG machine at the moment, all around 250Amps on 1 Phase. Fairly significant differances in the prices so going to get some advice on them.
L8rs.

Hi all,

Just an update for anyone who might be interested. Course is going great! Thanks again for all the advice. Im doing Mig mild steel plate at the moment and getting tested on the 15th January next :eek:. After that I'll be doing the Tig Aluminium. Im not too pushed about the stainless.

Also decided on a welder. Going to go with the SIP Ideal Super 240 1 Phase for €1400.

L8rs.

Edit: Not so sure about the welder anymore....possibly go with the Lincoln Electric Power Mig 255.

after 35 years of welding and machining i must admit stick or mma is the mother of all welding and after understanding this principal properly most other welding will become natural.But without a doubt the mig is the fastest for production and filling gaps but can go in cold if the wrong settings are used.The tig is brilliant on fine to medium size material and has no peers on stainless and alluminium when lookes and penatration is needed.Oxy is one of my old favorites you would think it was only good for welding light material but this is incorrect,i remember when i was a boy we used to braze old 20 ton heinze presses through there column that was 2inch thick but we had to do alot of pre heating with other oxy torches to keep the heat in while brazing,any ways you cant go wrong with any welding coarse there all great to learne however it sounds like if your going to weld gates you won't need much more than a mig of reasonable size say mabe 200/250 amp hope this helps greg b

I am a Ferris State graduate with my bachelors in welding engineering I wanted to let you know if you have planes on getting a tig welder and want to be able to weld aluminum make sure the welder is capable of (AC) alternating current many of them are not and this is critical to being able to weld aluminum. Also it is not very expensive and you can GMAW (mig) weld aluminum with virtually any mig welder with the addition of a push pull gun ask you welding salesman about this, but when welding aluminum with either tig or mig you have to make sure your shielding gas is pure argon hope this helps.

.

Thanks all. Im getting the Lincoln Electric (Manufactured as 'Metron' over here) 250amp Mig in the New Year. Its setting me back quite a pretty penny €1450 + €200 for spare gun and aluminium accessories :eek:!

Contrary to all the advice on cnczone Im going to go with advice I got locally regarding aluminium welding with the Mig. I was told a few times now that if Im only doing a small bit of aluminium on and off then theres no need for the expense of the spool gun, and instead to just get a spare torch with shorter cable and a teflon liner.

So instead of spending €800 on a spool gun, Im spending €200 on a regular torch and liner. If I end up needing a spool gun later then so be it, a spare torch wont go to waste.

Thanks for the comments. Gled I'll be doing Tig in my course after Christmas and my Mig test ( :eek: ). We did the theory already but Im looking forward to actually practising it. :)

L8rs. :cheers: