Hi everybody,

I have just place my order for a 4axis CNC converted SIEG SUPER X3 from "SyiL" and I want to share this experience and process with you.

First I want to introduce myself.

I’m from Quebec Canada, my spoken language is French so I wish that you will excuse me if my English is not perfect but I will try to do my best.
I have a formation as an engineering technician; I work for Doppelmayr-Ctec ski-lift in St-Jerome and as the company name implied, our business is to produce Ski-lift. I’m in charge of the method department here. We do all the process method, process planning, the entire cnc program for 3 mills, 2 lathes and a plasma cutter. But I don’t program and design anymore four a couple of year now :frown: , I supervise and do production planning mostly now.

Like most of you I dream of having my personal cnc, I bought a lot of pieces to build my own router table, in fact I have almost everything two build two of them… but I don’t really have the time to complete it… I also have a 10x20 lathe and a round column knee mill that I will like to cnc also but again I don’t know when I will have the time to learn how do it and to build it.

Than I saw the add from SyiL http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20028 And I fall in love with this mill and I found the price very reasonnable. I exchange a couple of email with them ( hummm maybe more than a couple :rolleyes: ) and I finally take the decision to make my dream come trough and I order “my” CNC converted SIEG SUPER X3 with the fourth axis option.

My first impression of this company is really good. The communication by email with them is excellent. The people at SyiL are very kind and always helpful, they reply to all my email in a really short time ( in fact I don’t know if they take the time to sleep )…

The building process of my “New Toy” should take about 2 weeks before the shipping and they are kind enough to offer to send me some picture so I could follow the building process. I would post this picture here so you could se it to.

This is what my "baby" will look like :)

http://syil.com.cn/cn/images/da/figure2.jpg


CrazyRonny :cheers:

rad.

jealousy.

Congrats!

Hi Ronny:

I also purchased one today. Mine is also the 4 axis version with a very nice stepper controled rotary table, upgraded spindle speed, a keyless chuck and collet set. I am using my own freight forwarder to receive it. I was very impressed with the high level of the componants that are in this unit. In fact I am planning to import them using containers to save on the shippng costs and offer it with one of our industrial computers.

Please let me know your if you think there will be much intrest in this type of product.

Lou

Thanks for Mr Ronny and Mr Lou Support.we will make best for your.we will also post some X2,X1,CNC set soonly.

also,we will update some CNC working Video for you,but it is so big hardly to post on the web... (chair)

by the way,we will upload to our web of video soonly.then every one can download at www.syil.cn

Hi Ronny:

I also purchased one today. Mine is also the 4 axis version with a very nice stepper controled rotary table, upgraded spindle speed, a keyless chuck and collet set. I am using my own freight forwarder to receive it. I was very impressed with the high level of the componants that are in this unit. In fact I am planning to import them using containers to save on the shippng costs and offer it with one of our industrial computers.

Please let me know your if you think there will be much intrest in this type of product.

Lou

Hi Lou,

I think people will have a big interest in this mill... I have a big interest... I bought one :rolleyes: . But a lot of people don't want to deal with oversea transaction and shipping, if they can buy it locally the interest will be higher I think... but at a reasonnable price ;)

Thanks to tell me that they have a spindle speed upgrade available... I just add this option to my mill to. :)
I also add the coolant system, at first I think it was include because I saw it in all the picture but it's my mistake and it is an option. But with the low cost of all the options they offer it is not worth not having it.



This is the picture of the nice rotary table with the 3 jaw chuck they use for the 4 axis
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/3-JawchuckRotarytable.jpg



And this is the Collet chuck kit option.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/Millchuck.jpg


CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Ronny

Yes, that is the rotary table and chuck. However, I asked them to install a stepper on it to connect to the 4th axis. I also purchased the collet and chuck option kit. The high low speed spindle motor in the stock x3 mill has a max rpm of 1700 acording to Syil. It comes with a digital readout showing the rpm with a variable speed adjustment. I had them upgrade it to a max rpm of 3,500 with a gear change and a change to the LED to indicate the correct rpm.

I built a really neat enclosure with flood cooling and drainage system for my current machine. I hope I can modify it for the larger table and travel.

Hi Lou,

They will build the mill with all the four axis ready to go... in fact it's a plug and play type of mill that I will receive ;)

You have a very neat enclosure, I will have to made one when the mill arrive or I may flood my shop (chair)


To everyone who as an interest in this mill... Please note that I do not work for SyiL, I'm not a salesman, only a customer that want to share is experience... and understand that I will not discuss or talk about price here, if you want a quote or price you can go at http://www.syil.cn or send an email to Xushuo or Bibaco at sales@syil.cn they are great people to deal with and I'm sure that they will answer all your question.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

That is one awesome looking conversion. I went to the web page to learn more but it just times out with no connection. Is the Syil site still around? :confused:

Hi Spuds:

I am looking forward to getting it. They said two weeks to build and then shipping time.

Try adding www in front of syil.cn The web site won't connect with out it. http://www.syil.cn

After that be patient becasue it is slow to come up. I just tried it and it does work.

Lou

SO did you guys order it through email, since they are not taking online orders?

Hi Spuds, you're right I couldn't log in their site this WE, but it's OK today , and they add new pictures, now I'm waiting for CrazyRonny to get news, when do you receive CR,
Regards from France

hello,everyone.

how are your,and we want to make online order,but paypal we need apply a USA Account,otherwise them can not transfer money to china credit card.
the china paypal only support china domestic transfer.so we are still in apply.then in future we will have online ordering.

now the order of Ronny have been producting,we will update news soonly.

any other questions please email to us.
also,our web it is ok,i test many times.hehe.

Syil.

SO did you guys order it through email, since they are not taking online orders?

Hi redbaron, I order by email and send money with Bank money TT, it was the first time that I make this kind of transaction but it's easy.


This is the picture of my Mill that SyiL send me.... The CNC conversion process is already begin :)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/SyiL_MyX31.jpg

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Ronny:

I also did the same. It is very secure for the person receiving the funds but you need to make sure it is legitimate. Once it's sent you can't un-do it.

Cool photo.

Lou

Looks like a clean conversion from the pictures. Are the ballscrews rolled or ground and what kind of accuracy are they?

Ordered on the 9th May received on the 16th May, all the way from China. That's really quick. Almost to good to be true. Or have I missed something here.

Regards (chair)
Phil

Hi redbaron, I order by email and send money with Bank money TT, it was the first time that I make this kind of transaction but it's easy.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Phil:

Did they ship by air? If so how much was the cost for shipping?

I see you are in Norway. Is it possible that they sent it by truck and or train to you? I am in Long Island, New York. Shipping via boat takes about 5 weeks to me. I ordered mine by slow air which is suposed to take about 1 week.

In any case how to you like it?

Lou

Ordered on the 9th May received on the 16th May, all the way from China. That's really quick. Almost to good to be true. Or have I missed something here.

Regards (chair)
Phil


Hi Phil,

Effectively I think you miss something here, or my english is very bad :rolleyes:

I have not receive the mill.... as I said this picture was send to me by SyiL, they receive my machine and they begin the cnc conversion process... We will follow the conversion that Syil (in China) made to the super X3 I bought with the picture they will send me in the process.
After that they will ship it... I wish.... Lol (chair)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

look everyone require them order urgently,hehe,we are in hurrp production.
some items like speed inprove also need we make new motherboard.so need some days.but will soonly.
those day we just take every parts sperate and cleaning them one by one,then packing them,becuase the original X3 parts and accessories,we will packing them and sent to clinets eventhough after update CNC.

Mr.lou i see your working room pic,very clean.is it X1 CNC which your have?

Hi Mr Xushuo:
Yes, that is an X1 CNC. The main problem with it is that it has servo motors that are under powered. It will not loose steps because of the encoder but it can easily go over current and then it will stop. My only solution is to have it move very slowly and adjust the acceleration to be very gradual so it does not stall.

I did research on building my own X3 with servo and stepper motors. If the stepper motor is sized correctly it will be nearly impossible to loose a step unless you run into a hard stop. Using servo motors presents many other problems and would not be a good solution for an X3 machine. You are using the same size stepper motors and ball screw lead that I calculated would be best for this machine.

I am looking forward to the new CNC Mill. I am going to try to use the existing enclosure if possible and make some changes to support the longer table and increased travel.

I think an enclosure would be an excellent option to offer for your unit.

Lou

Here is a shot of the X3 I converted some 2 year ago.

Ken

Thanks for the tip on getting to the web site .... I am looking at it now. It looks like a very impressive kit. I'll be interested in reading an end user reivew on the capabilites of the system in action. Also interested in the conversion kit as I already have and X3, what mills modificaions are required to install the kit?

Hi Ken, your conversion work on X3 looks cool! from the picture, it seemed that you changed the spindle motor with a frequency changing motor or servo spindle motor, It's of much more power.. right?

and I can't see the conversion on Z axis, did you modify it too?

Bibaco
www.syil.cn

Hi Spuds,

we will support photos and everything we can provide to Crazy Ronny and then you will see the whole review....

If you convert the mill by yourself, you can finish the job just with a electric drill and a hacksaw...of courese, the X3 is heavy, maybe you will need several friends to help you move the parts,he he

of course, we will ofer a manual guide for your work.

Bibaco

syil

In order to stay with 120 VAC input, the VFD drives a 1/2 HP 56C frame motor. With a 220 VAC input, the sky's the limit.

I utilized the stock Z axis lead screw and drive it with a 3:1 pulley ratio from one of the same servo motors as the X and Y axes.

The X and Y have 5/8" DIA 5TPI ball screws with double nut configuration.

The machine has proven itself well since all my mods aside from the acheivable surface finish which suffers from the distance between the collet gage line and the lower spindle bearing.

Ken

Thanks for your introduction. a very good work you've done! Ken.

Hi Ronny, have you received my latest pictures ?

Bibaco

Hi Ronny, have you received my latest pictures ?

Bibaco


Hi everybody,

This is the last picture that I receive this weekend... sorry for the delay I was out for some rainy vacation :rolleyes:

They received several parts needed for the conversion. stepper motors,
coolant pump and ball screws. The stepper mounts are under manufacturing now.

The serious work is in progress :)



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/part1.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/part2.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/part3.jpg

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Are those ground ball screws. they look very nice units.

If you are going to use flood coolant are the steppers adequately sealed against the ingress of coolant. Their are not normally, straight out of the box.

Regards
Phil


Hi everybody,

This is the last picture that I receive this weekend... sorry for the delay I was out for some rainy vacation :rolleyes:

They received several parts needed for the conversion. stepper motors,
coolant pump and ball screws. The stepper mounts are under manufacturing now.

The serious work is in progress :)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

How does this X3 mill stack up to the Taig CNC mill? It seems to be a good bit larger for around the same price (prior to shipping).

Is it as accurate or does it need some work to make it accurate? The Sieg lathes tend to get some real slack compared to others out there.

well,many reply from every friend,hehehe.
more technical info please sent email to support@syil.cn
thanks for my friend Mr Ronny again.

Xushuo

Are those ground ball screws. they look very nice units.

If you are going to use flood coolant are the steppers adequately sealed against the ingress of coolant. Their are not normally, straight out of the box.

Regards
Phil

Hi Phil,

I ask your question to SyiL and they reply back very fast as always, thanks to Bibaco and Xushuo.

..."The ball screws are of rolled type, but of high level from Italy,
assembled in China. it contains two coupled nuts, with pre-compressure to
eliminate backlash. They will provide engough accuracy for X3 applications."...

..."We add the stepper motor shells for X, Y axis to protect the stepper
motors from ingress of coolant."...

For the "Z" axis, I know the stepper is in the base so it is protect by it's location.


Just A little note to everybody that follow this thread: Personnaly I did not ask the ball screw type question before I bought the machine... Why you will ask?... Because we speak about a complete CNC mill here ready to plug on the parallel port of your computer, and at an actual advertise base price of $2,990... Honestly, I did not expect to have ground ball screw on it, and I do not expect to have top quality part all over the machine also.

We have to remain realistic, we can not ask to have $10,000 of top quality component on a $2,990 complete CNC mill. But what I expect is to have a good little machine for my hobby use, to do some prototype and maybe some small production run...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Here we are very special thanks for Mr Jay de Halas. a friend from Colorado,US.
he use 3 days to translater all english word mistake of our website.,and also order one conversion set from us too.
thank you again my friend.

Syil.

Syil;
Thanks!!!!

Jay

??? 2990 u.s. dollars i hope yall guys aint dealing in stolen goods !!!

no really that is a sweat deal and i'm sure your gonna have lots a fun of this baby

is this including the 4th axis ,flood coolant ,collets/chuck ,ballscrews ??

??? 2990 u.s. dollars i hope yall guys aint dealing in stolen goods !!!

no really that is a sweat deal and i'm sure your gonna have lots a fun of this baby

is this including the 4th axis ,flood coolant ,collets/chuck ,ballscrews ??

Hi ironDigit,

No stolen goods here (chair) ... but I realy think it's a deal :)

The ballscrews is include in the price but the 4th axis, flood coolant, collets/chuck and double spindle speed is some options.

CrazyRonny :cheers:

lo

would you mind sharing the total costs of the machine

cause with this kinds of deals out there its getting very hard for me to keep my future conversion cost efffective by far

i hate signing off on a challenge though

P.S. please some more specs.
like precision tolerance,inches per minute and so on

thx for the quick reply btw

hi,Mr Iron Digit,we have a order from Netherland too.and we will sent the goods by TNT to them.then your just contact him which my products good or not.
patrick@destrip.com

well i never doubted the quality of your conversion mr. SYIL
i'm just curious about the numbers since and i quote: They will provide engough accuracy for X3 applications.
doesnt tell me a lot cause i dont know what a X3 application is

at the otherside this forum is full of curious people like meself that don't need to be considering buying a product to ask some questions about it.

but one thing i'm sure of is most forum users appreciate staying anonimous and not being advertised with though i can only speak for meself

and last but not least :what i like most of cnczone is that info is shared with all users by putting it in threads instead of everybody PMíng/mailing eachother keeping the info limited to the receivers

keep up the good work mr.SYIL i still think your conversion looks mighty neat

I just received an update with photos from Syil

Here are some of his comments (sorry they are not in line with the photos)
--------------------

I took some photos today for you of our work progress and everything just go well, except some parts delayed to arrive.

we have not received the power supply and some wire cut mounts. when they arrive, everything will go faster.

When our orders are stable, we will have stock for the parts, then ,we can finish our work faster.

- coolant parts under manufacturing.

- CNC controllers we have prepared.

- the mill has been disassembled, waiting for ball screws replacement.

- Lou and Ronny's super x3 mills.

- the electical parts have been removed and sent to our electrical engineer for corret the spindle speed indicate correction.

- some mounts have arrived.made of steel.

- mill chuck set and rotary table waiting for cnc conversion.

- stepper motors and wire pipe

NEXT time I send you pictures, most of the parts will been installed on the mills.

Thanks a lot for your patience.

Best Regards,

Bibaco

syil
---------------

The rest of the photos.

Lou

Hi IronDigit:

I understand what you are saying but the proof is in the pudding. I won't know 100% until I get to play with it. The main reason I went with Syil is that I was seriously planning to build my own. I spent many hours researching the best parts I would need including the stepper motors, controllers and ball screws. The size I came up with was a bit on the over-designed end. I felt it was better to error on having too much power then not enough. Under normal and even abnormal conditions this size stepper will not loose position by missing steps unless it hits a hard stop. If I were to use servo motors and hit a hard stop the current would go through the roof. I would need some type of safety circuit to kill power before things burn up.

In any case my point is that the systems that Syil is building uses the same or better spec components than I would use. The Gecko drive I was considering has 10 subdivisions of step where the Syil has up to 100. The X3 mill that I can get would be the standard, this is the super version. It also has covers over the motors and a neat installation of the controller in the vertical support.

Two factors remain. precision and rigidity. I think the precision of the ball screws and stepper motors will be fine. The rigidly of the system will only be as good as the X3. This will not be like a Bridgeport but I expect it will be much better than a Taig. It is hard to give out specs on this factor.

Lou

Hi again everybody :)

I have some new pictures of the part and the construction process....


coolant parts under manufacturing.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic1.jpg


CNC controllers they have prepared.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic2.jpg


the mill has been disassembled, waiting for ball screws replacement.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic3.jpg


Lou and Ronny's super x3 mills.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic4.jpg


The electical parts have been removed and sent to there electrical engineer to correct the spindle speed indicator.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic5.jpg



Some mounts made of steel.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic6.jpg


Mill chuck set and rotary table waiting for cnc conversion.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic7.jpg


Stepper motors and wire pipe
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic8.jpg


The construction take a little bit longer than anticipate because they have much more order than they anticipate and they have not yet receive some parts they have order for my mill. When the power supply and some wire cut mounts will arrive at there factory, the construction procees will go faster.

But what is a couple more days to wait to have my own little CNC mill :)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Oupssss..... :rolleyes:

Lou,

It's look like you have been faster than me.....

CrazyRonny

And now some picture of parts they made with it:


Aluminium
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/samplepartaluminiumcut.jpg


Copper
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/samplepartcoppercut.jpg


Steel
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/samplepartsteel.jpg


CrazyRonny :cheers:

In any case my point is that the systems that Syil is building uses the same or better spec components than I would use. The Gecko drive I was considering has 10 subdivisions of step where the Syil has up to 100.

I'm not sure 100 subdivisions really buys you anything on a stepper system. Most steppers have a 5% step accuracy and 200 steps per revolution. So each step is 1.8 degrees (360/200) with a total accuracy or error of .18 (1.8 * 10%) degrees. 0.18 into 360 is 2000 so your resolution needs to be 2000/200 or 10 micro steps.

For you to get the benefit of 100 micro steps that same 200 step motor would need a positional accuracy of 1% (+/- .5%). Or you could get a stepper with 2000 steps per revolution and the +/- 5% accuracy.

At least that is how I think that all works :)

Hi Spuds:

I’ll grant you that 100 subdivisions may not be necessary. With the lead of the ball screw at 5 threads per inch, 10 subdivisions will give you a micro step each 0.0001 of an inch. 100 subdivisions will be 10 times finer. It may even run into a problem of how fast you can go because you need 10 times as many steps. Mach3 can do 45,000 pulses per second. That will equate to 45,000 x 0.00001 which is only 0.45 inches per second or 0.45 x 60 = 27 inches per minute. 10 subdivisions will give you 270 inches per minute so I may use something in-between. 2, 4, 5, 10, 20, 25, 50, 100 subdivision are selectable on the Syil controller.

With regards to the accuracy, the way I see it is that you can’t mix the accuracy of the stepper motor with the subdivisions. The stepper motor accuracy is a mechanical function of the position of the magnet poles in the motor. The subdivisions or micro steps are a function of the accuracy of the current levels of the electronics. You need to add the errors together. To get 100 micro steps you need to have 100 current levels and apply them to the 4 poles of the motor in sequence so it moves 1/100 of a step. Within each step the subdivisions could be very accurate depending on the design of the electronics. Since each micro step at 100 subdivisions will move the axis only one hundred thousandth of an inch and the electronic error would be some fraction of this distance. Of course this is more then negligible. Any full or micro step could be off by 1.8 x 5% = 0.09 degrees. That is not plus or minus 0.09 degrees. I agree that any micro step could also be off by 0.09 degree as well. However, each full step will move the axis by 0.001 inch. 5% of 0.001 inches is 0.00005 of an inch. This is well within the range that is acceptable. Of course that does not take into account all the other factors such as backlash, accuracy of the lead screw and everything else but just looking at the stepper motors and the way they are driven is quite good (in my opinion).

Lou

Ronny;
The machined parts look really great. What kind of feed rates are you getting with the Syil kits?
Which CAD and CNC packages are you using?
The parts look suspiciously like RF parts, if you don’t mind me asking, what are you making?

Thanks!!!!

Jay

Mr.Syil, I noticed on your website that you will offer CNC conversion of the SEIG lathes too. I would like to know more about that option.

Lou,

Thanks for your insight on the stepper accuracy, it’s a way to look at it that I had not thought about. I think the controller having a selectable subdivision is very cool, just a feature that could confuse folks who fall into the more is better syndrome.

I keep looking at the feature list of this kit vs. collecting all the components and doing it myself, keep going back and forth as it’s a compelling offering.

Ronny;
The machined parts look really great. What kind of feed rates are you getting with the Syil kits?
Which CAD and CNC packages are you using?
The parts look suspiciously like RF parts, if you don’t mind me asking, what are you making?

Thanks!!!!

Jay

Hi Jay,

The part picture in this thread is not mine, it's some sample picture that SyiL sent to me... I have not receive my mill yet, the building of my X3 is not finish so I cant tell you about the feed and speed...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Mr.Syil, I noticed on your website that you will offer CNC conversion of the SEIG lathes too. I would like to know more about that option.

I will be interest in a lathe me to. There is not a lot of small cnc lathe available out there...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

How long long until you get it in?

cheers

Hi Spuds:

I don't have first hand knowledge yet, because I am still waiting for my machine, but it was pointed out to me that stepper motors can be very harsh when used in full or half step modes. When 10 or more subdivisions are used it becomes incredibly smooth.

With regards to the due date, I was promised a two week lead time. However, I am having a few upgades which I expect to take additional time. One is to change the spinde speed from 1750 rpm max to 3,500. This will require a gear change and a modification to the spindle rpm digital readout. I also asked ble to include the 4th axis and to motorize the optional rotoary table. I don't have a ship date but I see that progress is being made.

Lou
.

With regards to the due date, I was promised a two week lead time. However, I am having a few upgades which I expect to take additional time. One is to change the spinde speed from 1750 rpm max to 3,500. This will require a gear change and a modification to the spindle rpm digital readout. I also asked ble to include the 4th axis and to motorize the optional rotoary table. I don't have a ship date but I see that progress is being made.

Lou
.


Same thing for me... I order it with the same option as Lou.

But the delay don't really bother me, I'm not really in a hurry and I tell them to take the time to build me a really good mill ;) ... and they reply that all there mill will be good (chair) ...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Do you guys have a set plan for the inportation re: taxes or similar fees for US inport? Thanks, Met...

Hi Met Lister:

The import duty is based on the type of product you are importing. There is a rate schedule for different types of products you can get from your shippng broker. I investigated that and found that the import duty is very small for the CNC Mill. I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was under $50.00 US. I am not sure what Canadian duty is for Ronny but I think it is about the same as the US.

Lou

Hi,every friend,did Mr bibaco sent update pic to your by emails?last night i go to factory to check,mostly items finish,and i think this weekend can be load your machines.
those day we are very busy for orders.
also, to North america tax and duty i think not expensive,it is accord the products values to pay,we also can provide lower invoice too,but i think only one set,it is very cheap.also mostly clinets require we sent by DHL or UPS,it is not charge any tax and duty...

Hi

I did not receive the new photos yet. Please send then when you can.

Lou

Hi Met Lister:

The import duty is based on the type of product you are importing. There is a rate schedule for different types of products you can get from your shippng broker. I investigated that and found that the import duty is very small for the CNC Mill. I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was under $50.00 US. I am not sure what Canadian duty is for Ronny but I think it is about the same as the US.

Lou

The Canadian import duty from what I have found should be 6% maximum, of the declare value.

CrazyRonny

Hi,every friend,did Mr bibaco sent update pic to your by emails?last night i go to factory to check,mostly items finish,and i think this weekend can be load your machines.
those day we are very busy for orders.
....
...

Me to I have not receive any update picture of our mill....

But I will try to put them here as soon as I will receive it :)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi have receive some update picture of our CNC Super X3 construction from SyiL.


Y axis ball screw installation
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic09.jpg


X axis ball screw installation
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic10.jpg


work talbe view
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic11.jpg


Z axis CNC conversion
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic12.jpg


upper side view
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic13.jpg


total view( some part not installed yet)
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic14.jpg


speed upgrade--changed belt and wheel, digital speed readout correction circuit.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic15.jpg




And Bibaco said:

*********
"We have spend more time to stock of necessory devices, parts,accessories. and now we are doing our best for quicker assemble.


Best Regards,

Bibaco

Syil
*********

Thanks Bibaco

It really begin to look like something now ;)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hey guys, thanks for the replies on the duty fees. Not bad at all. I'm getting tempted :) ML

Hi Ronny and Phil and Lou and others in volved with the order of the SupeX3 converson to CNC. I was wondering if you have heard any more news on the delivery of your orders? Am I right in assuming that Syil is building each machine of yours COMPLETE? How is the PC going to be connected and such?

Thanks for all the knowledge!

Rich

I certainly hope your ready to open this machine up and look inside, being ready to do a cleanup before putting power to it. I hope for your sake that it has had proper care, but alas, i have seen where items like gear boxes are contaminated with circulating cast iron and such and machined areas not deburred ! You may well end up doing a full tear down and rebuild ! I have been impressed with the likely hood that to the asian "if it looks good on the outside, its good enough for the americans" Of course this is my own personal opinion !

Hi Ronny and Phil and Lou and others in volved with the order of the SupeX3 converson to CNC. I was wondering if you have heard any more news on the delivery of your orders? Am I right in assuming that Syil is building each machine of yours COMPLETE? How is the PC going to be connected and such?

Thanks for all the knowledge!

Rich

Hi Rich,

Yes the cnc Super X3 is completely build by SyiL. When we will receive it, the only thing that we will have to do is to plug it in the parrallel port of our computer....

For the delivery date... I must admit that I don't really know when it will be ready...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hello friends,

We just test the 3 axis converted super x3 for Ronny and Lou, following are the pictures in this process.

cut test and evaluation of the converted super x3 for Ronny and Lou(2500rpm spindle speed, one round rough cut, one round finish cut). after the maching, I measured the size, the accuracy is no more than 0.02mm.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00148.JPG

the test program in MACH3.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00149.JPG

interface board, 4 axis microstep stepper dirvers(set to 25 microstep) and switch supply in the back shell. not installed on the machine just for test connection.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00150.JPG



Spindle speed upgrade by changing a 1:1 belt gear and a interface circuit in the digital readout to correct the speed show.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00153.JPG
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00152.JPG

we now start to convert the 4th axis and it will be OK very soon. for the finished parts, we start to clean and coat it for best appearance. the next pictures we will post in this thead later.

Thanks to Ronny, Lou and other friends.

Bibaco syil

Hi Bibaco,

I'm glad to see that the construction of our mill progress :)

I must admit that I begin to be eager to receive it and to begin to make some chip with it ;)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

I see your running at 400mm/min which is nearly 16ipm, what depth of cut and size end mill is that?


Jon

Hi Ronny, the delivery of yours and Lou's will be soon... we will finish the convertion work in sevral days.

the gas spring has been succefully installed on your machines. Pictures just later....

---

Hi JFettig, the feed rate actually is 100mm/min in this program. 400mm/min is the rapid move rate. the program was designed when I use the 1700rpm max before the spindle speed upgrade..hehe
I think the feed rate can be near to 200 mm/min when 3000rpm. I don't rocommand use too high feed rate, it will help nothing to finished accuracy and surface. we must consider the rigidity and spindle speed of the small mill machine.

I used a 8mm milling cutter(3 blade) in the program. the depth is 6.7mm.

Thanks

So whats the price for the full kit?

So whats the price for the full kit?

Hi "Com",

As I wrote in one of my first post, I will not talk about cost here, because they are in a early stage with their company and the cost could be adjust...

But for a complete quote you could send an email at the guy's at SyiL and I'm sure the will be happy to give you a price with the options you want. And the base price is on there web site http://www.syil.cn.

Thanks to understand.

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi "Com",

And the base price is on there web site http://www.syil.cn.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

I've looked at the web site, and haven't seen any prices at all, base or otherwise. Do you have a link that goes directly to this page?

Thanks,

I've looked at the web site, and haven't seen any prices at all, base or otherwise. Do you have a link that goes directly to this page?

Thanks,

Sorry Guy's... (chair)

You're right, the list price is not there anymore.... the only thing I can suggest you is to write an email and ask them directly. Sales@syil.cn

CrazyRonny

becuase we have been contact some dealer,so in future all North america order can be place from US directly by paypal.that is why we can not display the price online.

please sent email to us if need price to Sales@syil.cn

Your sincerely~
Www.Syil.cn

Wow thats all I got to say i'm freeking drooling.

Syil,
When do you anticipate conversion kits for the Sieg X1 being available?
Thanks.

Hello,

Yes we will get the conversion kit for SIEG X1, X2 avaliable as soon as possible. I can anticipate the time of about one month.

Thanks

following the earlier pictures of the conversion progress:

we specially developed a digital readout correction circuit and added it to the pannel PCB after the spindle speed upgrade.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a7.jpg

now showing the double speed than original.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a6.jpg

CNC control part as a whole in the added back shell. Containing 4 axis (or 3 axis)cnc drivers, parallel port CNC interface board and 500W power supply. This is also included in the convertion kit.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a10.jpg

gas spring added on the Z axis for Ronny and Lou's special require.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a8.jpg

the 4th axis conversion of SIEG rotary table. fit for hobby usage.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a11.jpg

Thanks to all friends.

Bibaco -syil

I owned the X1 mill for a while, I considered it to be on par with a taig AFTER the extended base and table (so about 500 dollars in all). Now, as an owner of the X3, I can say there is no comparison :). You will not be dissapointed

the 4th axis conversion of SIEG rotary table. fit for hobby usage.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a11.jpg

Thanks to all friends.

Bibaco -syil

Hi Syil, can you tell me how much is the 4th axis setup alone? I mean just the table attachable rotating table and the stepper. Please send me an email or private message.

Thanks


Pablo

Hi everybody,

My Cnc Super X3 is complete, only need to take care of the shipping paperwork and pay the final bill ;)


Look at this beauty :)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/SyiL_MyX3_finish.jpg


The fun will begin soon....

CrazyRonny :cheers:

THat looks great. Let us all know how it works, and take pictures of things you make with it. What is the spindle RPM max now anyways?

yeah that lookin mighty good just the drill-chukk i dis-like on the picture
i'm sure you'll have some fun with this baby good luck m8
just keep us informed

I just contacted Syil tonight regarding the purchase of the SuperX3 CNC. Does anyone know what the shipping fee for this thing is? I know that Grizzly.com offers shipping for $89 but, this baby's coming from CHINA! any guess would be appreciated! I am in ND right in the middle of the U.S. Anyone?....Anyone?....

shiping cost not expensive,just time need be wait for around month,if you want to air transportation,it is faster,hehe,
don`t worry,we will have agent in US,and will have stock in US future.
thank you for your consideration.

xushuo

syil/xushuo,

please hurry and get your united states agent worked out. we NEED easier access to your product. there is money to be spent on our end and money to be made on your end! thank you. :wave:

bill g.

I heartily agree, two months from buying till going through customs is too long to wait for a product that we pay for up front. Willing to buy,..... not willing to wait so long.


BEST!!

NO kidding! let us know when you get that worked out! Im not forking over $3000 to wait 2 months with no idea what the shippings actually going to cost.
HEY, I KNOW! I'LL be your US DEALER! you can ship one to me and in a couple of months after I sell it , Ill send you the cash! :cheers:

Actually I think the person who is selling this is very sincere in his efforts to get these units out to the buyer. If it were not for the overseas distance I can tell he would be just making money hand over fist here in the US. As it is though, we have to pay a bit extra and wait a bit longer.

We are used to going down to Home Depot and getting exactly what we want when we want it. If I were in a position to wait a bit longer, I would. I think the product will be a fine one as it is, just a rough time waiting so long. I will most likely get one of these if a dealer is in the US, but cannot wait so long a time as it is right now.

Still I think whoever waits will not be unhappy.

we will be have dealer in US soonly,and we both konw distance it is our main problem.it is not every friend like Mr lou can pay high expense to get machiens from china by AIR plane.
we will think about how to sent some stocks to US mainland.and have been in touch some dealer right now.

Thanks Syil,

I know you are trying your best!!

Does anyone know how soon Syil replies back to your e-mails? After coming across this thread, I had to sign-up. I'm looking forward to owning one of these machines. :)

Bear in mind outr evenings are his early mornings, being that he is in China. I usually get direct answerbacks in the late eveing.

Hmm. Completly slipped my mind that he's all the way in China. :rolleyes:


Has or did anyone notice that on the SIEG Site. The photo of the Super X3 has the head tilted at 90*???

Since neither Grizzly's or HF's model doesn't meantion that. I'm curious. click here (http://www.siegind.com/Products/br-x3-super-lathe.htm) to see the picture. It's in the bottom right hand of the page.

:banana:

Or am I just getting excited over a feature that's not really there?

It looks like a swivel base, where the head meets the colum. The models sold by HF & Grizzly are standard X3, the one Syil is selling is the "Super X3". WOW! That appears to be the case, Good eye!

But how often are yougonna really use that?

Of course not often. BUT. Knowing it's there, when I do need it. Is always a plus.

I also just noticed that the standard X3 is rated as 3/4hp (600w) and the Super X3 is 1.1/3hp! (1000w)
thats nearly twice the muscle!

YES! it tilts. see here...Axminster.co.uk (sorry dont know how to add a link)

here's the photo

Very nice. Does anyone know how it rotates? I see no hand wheel.

With a long enough table. The head at 90*. A platform at the right height. You can have a mini lathe. Of course, a few things would be missing. But....if you were ambitous enough. You could mill them yourself. Just mount a tail stock and lathe chuck. BAM! 2 machines in one.

Do you really believe it is 1kw? I don't. I've owned now 3 Sieg products:
the mini lathe, micro mill, and the x3 mill. I've not found the motors on any of these to have the rated power. Did Syil end up replacing the actual motor to something more powerful, so that he can get his 1:1 and higher RPM? Or did he keep the same motor.
My X3 might have its actual .8HP, maybe a bit less. In Low range, it is nearly impossible for me to stop the spindle by hand.
One thing I really wish the X3 had, which Syils Super X3 does, is the motor is inside the head casting. That is beautiful, I don't like the hanging motor at the side at all. I hope to replace the motor and ditch the noisy gears and go belt drive w/ DC motor. The stock X3 does not have enough space inside to house a motor :(

Again Sieg seems to make a prettier machines for the Europeans !!!!

Well , if you bought your stuff at HF I doubt it!
They seem to over rate their motors. my (HF) X2 says 4/5hp but Seig rates it at 350w or just 1/2hp. I beleive this is accurate. the same i beleive is true of the mini-lathe.

Im sure glad I didnt buy the X3! Im gonna get me one of these Syil converted SuperX3. If we wait for there to be a "distributer" I bet the price will go WAY up!

They will want their share of the $ and I dont think theres much profit margin for Syil to split with them!

Long night, and can't fall asleep. Why not read up on news.

I forgot to edit my last post. It was...stating the obvious.


Should I try PM'ing Syil here, and get an answer? It's been about 2 days. And sadly, I'm an impatient person(Ironic ay?). Since I've been looking to get into the CNC world. I'm very very interested. Especially seeing what Syil's done.

Browsing google. I've come across a few things. And since I don't know from Syil. Maybe some of you who have talked to him, know. Does he offer the extened Dovetail colum(100mm I believe). Extended table? Expanded Table? Belt Driven or belt conversion? Coolent System? Way covers(I'll probably be making custom sets, as I've already got a few nice idea's)? Software packages? Joystick for jogging(looking to make custom as well)

Because of the language barriar, between us. I have another question. He(Syil) had said "No more than 0.2mm of accuracy" if I remember correctly. Would that be the equivilent to "No less than?" because there's a large difference between the 2. I'm perfectly happy with that kind of accuracy roughly 0.0008" if my math is correct.

I'm sure when I'm not as tired. I'll remember my many other questions. Which could be why I havne't gotten a replay back. lol

...
Because of the language barriar, between us. I have another question. He(Syil) had said "No more than 0.2mm of accuracy" if I remember correctly. Would that be the equivilent to "No less than?" because there's a large difference between the 2. I'm perfectly happy with that kind of accuracy roughly 0.0008" if my math is correct.

I'm sure when I'm not as tired. I'll remember my many other questions. Which could be why I havne't gotten a replay back. lol

Must be tired! :) :)
0.2mm is 0.007874". Not so good in my book. :cool:
China is 14hrs ahead of us (I am in Central time zone).. and observe some different holidays as us as well.

well if you re-read what Syil wrote he actually said 0.02mm which is 0.0007874"






:)

Hi everybody,

My mill is now waiting in China sea port, I do not want to pay the extra $$$ need for Air shipping... I'm not that much in a hurry.
But "Lou" did so we may have a review from "Lou" when he will receive is machine... What do you think about this idea "Lou" ;)


For the waiting time since I place my order... Keep in mind that SyiL is a company in a starting stage and I'm one of there very first customer. And to complicate everything me and "Lou" ask for some option that they are not ready for it yet, they have to make some engeneering and produce new part for our request to double the spindle speed. And both of us also order the 4th axis option. I see it like an almost custom build project so the delay is reasonnable for me.

Another thing that should not help the production delay of my mill.... and it's entirely my fault... it's this thread :rolleyes:
By making this thread I increase the interest in there products and give them more work at the same time...
But I'm glad if I have help this guy to start well because I really believe that they have a nice product and at an affordable price for hobbyist like me who can not afford real production machine.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

I just came across this thread. I bought the Grizzly MiniMill in January and did a CNC conversion with Kuroda linear actuators. In my opinion this is a great mill for the hobbyist- manual or CNC. My CNC conversion cost me about $2500 and I sold it on Ebay to free up funds so I could get a Bridgeport CNC (this hobby is addictive!). None of this includes my labor, or the risk that I took on in designing and building things myself.

Anyway, this Syril mill looks fantastic and should really fill a market need!

Must be tired! :) :)
0.2mm is 0.007874". Not so good in my book. :cool:
China is 14hrs ahead of us (I am in Central time zone).. and observe some different holidays as us as well.
Like Sammus Said. Syil said it was .02mm of accuracy. Guess I wasn't too tired last night. :P

When I read that, my heart dropped. And after reading the next one, it was back up where it should be. Glad it's what I had thought. Or i would be looking for something else.

Ronny,

That's good to hear. I'm looking forward to a review on this!

I am impatient too. (HAHA) Who isn't today.

I am anxiously awaiting some answers so I can get my order moving.

Anyone know what frieght is like from there to the US?

I hears it's about $100-$140 "to the nearest port " its after that that concerns me. I used to live in Seattle, I could have picked it up at the terminal, now I live in North Dakota! Whats UPS charge for a huge 300# chunk of steel delivered half way across the country?..... (chair)

Warren,

I just checked what they're asking from UPS. The only offers I got online, we air flights from Washington to Ohio. And that bill was estimated at over $1,000 USD. :(

Maybe 1 1/2ton truck and drive myself, seems to be a better option. Since I have an engine lift, it will be easy to move around.

That is of course, if it HAS to be flown.


On another note. Still no word from Syil. I'd really like some answers so. So I can get my order rolling. If it's going to take a month or so to get. The sooner it's started, the better.

I think it would be nice to calm down.

I think you guys are really going at this from a strange angle.

Air shipment of a 300lb mill? Try ground. Probably 1/3 that cost and that is neglidgeable.

I think that last I heard you could get a car shipped accross the US from WI to California for $1000. That's a 3000lb car. One tenth the weight here.

If any of my posts came across as upset, or mad. They wern't suposed to. lol

I went by what UPS had on their website. I entered the weihgt, package dimensions, and where it was being shipped. They gave two different options. And were both air. one was a little over $1000 and the other was over $1100.

I'm sure there may be other options. But I'm only going on what the site had said.

I didnt realize I was un-calm....

I just like to know how much everything will come to before I commit $3000

Im not rich and an extra $1000 to get it to my door would definatly be a "deal-breaker"

guys, you are crazy if you are thinking of using a major shipping company like UPS or DHL. Open up the phone book and call some ground freight companies. Someone might be moving stuff to your area... I shipped a 200kg audio console from hongkong for only $450US.

What you should also take into consideration is, whether or not the sea freight company covers customs brokage. A LOT OF SEA FREIGHT COMPANIES DON'T! You may have to organise your own customs broker to meet the cargo in a customs warehouse and to forward the appropriate documents to the US customs office to be cleared. If you are having your mill shipped by sea freight you need to do two or three things as soon as it has been consigned to the shipping company in the country of origin.

- Find out if you need to organise a customs broker. Ie. call the shipping company and ask! They will often have an inhouse customs broker that you can use, at a fee of course. Just don't leave it til the 11th hour... Ask when the cargo is first consigned so you have 2, 4, 6 or whatever weeks to organise your documentation if you have to. Cargo will only sit in a shipping warehouse for a week at the most, after that it will cost you $$$ for them to store it.

- You should request a copy of the consignment notice (also known as the Bill of Lading), a packing declaration that states exactly what is contained in the crate and a fumigation certificate if it is boxed in organic material like a wooden crate. Request them via mail and fax or email! In some instances the shipping company will require an original copy of the bill of lading. You might also be required to have more documentation... ask the shipping company!


It never hurts to ask, just be prepared to spend a few extra dollars and the time to organise your documentation. Sea freight isn't quick so you'll have a few weeks... Some shipping companies include customs clearance in the shipping so you might not even need to do anything. Better to ask then find out at the last minute!

I'm not rich either, but I think this is far and away the best deal on the market, so if I can't afford it, I can't afford the market.

Converting my X2 to four axis CNC with belt drive would cost $2200 for a kit I assembled myself, roughly similar to this kit, I think built four axis X2 machines are in the neighborhood of $4000-$6500 that $4000 is a very conservative estimate since the only estimate I have is the KDN summit.

So in other words, Syil apparently can supply a quality super X3 machine built and ready to go for less than the price of an X2 converted in the US.

If this works out I'll consider myself fortunate, as I don't have the funds to purchase this kind of light manufacturing capability any other way.

Now as far as a customs agent and all that jazz, that should be explained by the seller at the point of sale.

WOW! $2200 for a X2 kit? where you bee shopping?...

The mill is $500, the kit from Ron Steele is $600 with belt drive, and the electronic components are $600 and the table for the fourth axis is probably $300 or so [with manual locking and no guarantee that the motor will hold in place for milling so that's in the neighborhood of $2000 for a kit that I have to assemble and interface and work the kinks out of and that doesn't include x and y ballscrews.

The Syil kit is approximately that for a machine that has twice the capability and ballsrews. I just would rather not risk not being to assemble and interface it all as I don't know much about CNC.

Here you get little extras like a coolant system, a spindle speed display, and accuracy to the tune of .00078 With Ron Steeles conversion you get .003, because he doesn't include x/y ballscrews. Sure for $400 or more you might be able to retrofit, so then you might get .001 still not as good.

SO you're including the price of the Mill ($500) inyour "kit"
Rons kit is only $450 + $50 for the plans.

Where did I say the Syil product wasnt a great value?... Even compared to the standard X3 I beleive its a great deal!

Super has about 50% more power and includes rotating head & spindle Tach.
not to mention the CNC CONVERSION!

I was just wondering if anyone knew about the freight charges/procedures for importing such an item.

And isnt this kinda getting off the subject?

Now as far as a customs agent and all that jazz, that should be explained by the seller at the point of sale.

Maybe in a perfect world, but once the item is on the boat they are pretty much out of the picture as far as the sellers responsibility, legally. They can't give you infomation on the price of customs brokage, or port and wharf taxes... not to mention import duties and tarriffs because it varies from place to place, even within place to place. The wharf that the boat is unloaded at will charge you a fee, the union that the wharfies work for might also include a fee, the shipping company will probably include a fee for transporting your cargo from the boat to their warehouse... It may not be anything extremely huge but with taxes and brokage on top it all adds up at the end of the day.

I think the buyer has just as much responsibility to ensure everything is in order on their end... If you get things shipped via sea freight quite often this is pretty much expected. You have to act independently of the seller. The problems occur when people order sea freight because they see it as a cheaper alternative, and often expect the cargo to arrive at their door like a USPS box would.

If you are thinking about getting one of these I'd email or call Syil and get infomation about the shipping companies used for both Sea and Air freight, then call those companies at your end and ask questions, if you've never shipped sea freight tell them that. I don't think they will bite your head off... if you wait til the day the boat is getting unloaded to do so it might be a different story. You might find it cheaper to get one from a local distributor in the future...

"SO you're including the price of the Mill ($500) inyour "kit"
Rons kit is only $450 + $50 for the plans."

The only reason I was comparing it was because I was comparing it to SYILs price with the mill included.

You guys really play words and make a person have issues with self-control.

If I compared to their price including the mill and didn't include the mill would that be more fair?

You have to make risks if you want to profit, so I guess the question here is are you ready to lay money out or not. You act as though the price is exorbitant and it is less than 1/3 that of competing assembled US machines.

Hey guys, I'm a long-time lurker that finally decided to come foreward after reading this post. I had been looking for a smaller mill to convert for CNC, but Syil's pricing on a fully converted super X3 is great. However, I was wondering (and please excuse my naiveness if I missed something, I'm still learning :) ), when Syil regears the head for 3500 RPM, wouldn't the torque at lower RPM's suffer and affect or impair the ability for the machine to cut steels? Obviously the X3 is not an industrial machine, but I had thought it could at least cut some steels in it's OEM configuration of 1700 RPM. However, I don't want to find out that it can't with the 3500 RPM upgrade after it's at my port. Thanks. :cool:

Hello everybody,
Here's a picture from Syil, mechanics parts in progress.
I have bought a Super X3 in Germany, take a look at www.cnc-steuerung.com
And of course I'm waiting for the conversion kit (3 axes) from Syil.

I guess that is a good question about torque with the high-rpm conversion.

I don't know much about rev ranges for different materials and just asssumed the high RPM unit would be more flexible.

I called FedEx and that was probably stupid. they want $1000 to move a 400lb package fom LA to Wisconsin (what I had them quote.)

UPS is generally cheaper but I think I will want to go private freight on this.

I don't know what my nearest port would be. I wonder what the options are? Maybe if they do East Coast delivery NewYork or something would be smarter.

I'm right in the middle of mississippi LA and New york. I wonder if Chicago has a port that does deliveries? (chair)


UPS LA to me is $645 via freight (I just checked)

I just want to get an e-mail with a quote. :(

I think I'll pick it up myself. I'll take a few days off. For what it's going to cost in gas and time. It's not that bad. Plus it's an excuse to get out(ha ha).

What are some options other people are going with?

Yeah in calling three freight companies it looks like the cheapest I can get is $600 without insurance.

I still don't know what ports they can ship to so that's all figuring off LA.

I don't have a gate agent or whatever, so i can just assume this with insurance and a gate agent might cost $900 to $1000.


I'm not sure it would be any cheaper if I picked it up. Probably not. Driving to Iowa and back costs $200 for the 1200miles. I'ld assume it would be $600 to drive to California and back, which means that the Gulf is probably closer as I reccall driving to new Orleans is 1200 miles one way. This **** gets complicated.

thus, i cannot wait to see what the case will be when they get a U.S. supplier/importer. but i fear that will be months to years away from today.

Hi,

I have a quick question about this machine based on the pictures that I have seen. Has anyone noticed that the y-axis rails do not extend all the way to the column? What is going to happen to the accuracy of the table when you have a bigger job and it moves closer to the column? Looking at the pictures, it seems that the table is only going to be supported by around 2 inches of rails. Just my 0.02$.

Sebastian

group purchase probably would not even help matters...would it?

hey i was wondering i saw in one of the photo that there is a coolant kit that comes with it or is this an option

here is something that might interest some about the cost of shiping
http://www.superx3.com/howTo-buyDirect.htm

That was insightful. If that pricing is fairly accurate. I'll be spending that, plus gas to drive a very long way. Maybe picking it up myself may not be the cheapest route.

I think I will give another e-mail to Syil. :) I'd really like a quote to get the ball rolling.

Just wanted to say that the guys at Syil are very nice people, and got me a quote and purchase order extremely quickly even after my many questions. :) Money is going out by wire tomorrow, so they've got another happy customer, so far. :cool:

Had mine ordered the same as CrazyRonnie's, with 4th axis, gas strut, coolant option, chuck kit, and RPM modifier. As I had posted earlier I was concerned about the torque loss at a higher gearing, but the people at Syil say that the gearing is an easy change back. However, that still leaves the issue of the chip that modifies the speed display to account for the different gear ratio; after speaking with them, they said that they can install a switch to either turn the conversion on or off based on what gearing I want to run. Works for me. :cheers:

hey i got there price list but what is the fob next to the price of each item

Yeah I don't know either.

I just asked about some more options (wondering if maybe they might have the live center to match the forth axis, and maybe a clamping kit and table vise)


Maybe that would just make this too easy for me though?

FOB = Free On Board
What does it Mean? A trade term requiring the seller to deliver goods on board a vessel designated by the buyer. The seller fulfills its obligations to deliver when the goods have passed over the ship's rail.

Alan

FOB
I've heard it call freight on board, free on board, freight on the barrelhead.
The short story is if I state FOB: My Dock, it means as soon as it leaves my loading dock, you own it. Like a taillight warranty on a used car lot.

That works as long as there is a date given for the arrival.

Without that, coordinating for shipping on from there could be very tough.

FOB is like ex works. It is a way of defining a price it does not necessarily mean you have to pick it up at the factory gate. All the seller is telling you is that any costs beyond this defined point will be extra. Normally a seller will organise the shipping at his end. You have to handle the import paper work and local transport, from the arrival port to your premises. The easiest and probably cheapest is to contact a local shipping/fowarding agent.

Regards
Phil

That works as long as there is a date given for the arrival.

Without that, coordinating for shipping on from there could be very tough.

thx phil just cant wait to see the critic ounce ronny gets his this will probably be the deciding point for me

So no updates? This thread grabbed my attention and I swear I read all 10 pages. Just when I was going to place my order for a Taig.

hehe, I think just because Ronny's machine is on the sea now.....


Bibaco

syil

yes thats what i am basicly waiting for i want to see how ronny cnc will do

crazyronny is our "labaratory test rat" or guinea pig. syil, you may want to consider adding him to your payroll as a sales consultant. :cool:

Syil,

did you got my email(s) week or 2 ago? I dont have recieved any answer, could you resend please.

Btw, do you have also any progress related to C6 (lathe) conversion?

Regards,
Indrek at Estonia/Europe

.... syil, you may want to consider adding him to your payroll as a sales consultant. :cool:

I like this idea ... lol :rolleyes:

My mill is at the port right now. SyiL need to have the confirmation of my bank money transfer before I will receive the paper work to pick up the mill...
I don't know how all this importation paperwork will go as I'm really new to that... but I will see and keep you inform.

CrazyRonny :cheers:

I received my machine last Friday. It looks really nice. Actually it is very well made with supper rugged servo mounts for the X and Y axis. The Z axis mechanics is hidden behind the spindle control electronics and I can not see it. On top of the spindle controller goes the box with the power supply and 4 axis controllers. 3 are standard but I ordered mine with an A axis rotary table and chuck. Right now it is in my garage but it will be going in my basement workshop. I am in the process of making a coolant enclosure. The base is now finished and all fiber-glassed waiting to be painted. The upper section will be clear plastic sheets with an aluminum angle frame all riveted together. I have a separate clear splash shield that will clip on to the table. If anyone is interested I will make a drawing package with photos and post it.

Syil send me a configuration file for MACH3 so I would have too much setup to do. Thank you very much. I also received a PDF file on the controller which is very complete. So far I have not turned it on but as soon as my enclosure is finished I can play with it. Probably next week.

Attached are a few photos from my garage. The controller box mounts on the back side of the vertical column. I labeled all of the wires and removed them so it will be easier to move to the basement with out the controller attached. I also removed the table to reduce some of the weight. I was looking at removing the spindle head but it would have required disconnecting to many wires.

Lou

Nice Lou, Its about time !!! I was beginning to wonder if you guys would ever receive your machines. What was your total cost in the end?

What was the time frame as well?

Are the wires easy to unplug or is that a solder job?

So how long did it take to get your machine? Was shipping a hassle? What did you have to do?

Looks great!

Actually I paid the advertised price. Your configuration may be different than mine so give Syil an email and ask.

On my controller photo you can see a pair of green connectors on each the driver boards. The larger one goes to the stepper motors and the smaller one provides power to the card. The connectors can un-plug from the driver board but are to big to pass through the hole in the sheet metal box. There are screw posts for the wires so I labeled each one and then removed them from the connector so that the cables could be removed. No soldering required and I only needed to disconnect it because I have a narrow stair case to go down.

Shipping wasn't a problem. In my day job I run a business where we import computer chassis from Taiwan and China. I was planning to have the mill loaded on one of our ocean going containers but I didn't want to wait. It was also about a 1 thousand mile truck ride from Syil to the chassis factory in China. I used our shipping broker to have it air shipped to my home in Long Island NY. Took about a 10 days. The best price for shipping was from Syil but on the first order I wanted to have more control with my own broker.

Syil was very helpful even after I received it to answer questions.


Lou

Lou,
Congrad's, It's a boy, I know that your a proud new pappa. I can't wait to see some of your work and see the pic's (along with CrazyRon also). Watch your back taking that big boy down the stairs.

Well enjoy bonding with your machine and post pic's when you can.

Ron

Also, can you report on the performance of the motor drivers? I was thinking about buying them if I can find out whether they are unipolar or bipolar.

Hi Ron:

I am almost finished with my enclosure. I am going to need lots of help getting the mill downstairs. At least it is all down hill ha ha. It would be a lot harder going back up. I have a smaller CNC Mill that I have been making my own landing gear for model airplanes. My current project is a 103" wing span Tigercat that will be scratch built. You can see my nose gear design at:
F7F-Nose Gear (http://liarsrc.com/images/f7f-gear/)

Below are some photos of the finished gear. The rest of the project should take about a year to complete.

phantomcow2 I should be turning it on in about a week. I will give a full report on the performance. How do you tell if the steppers are unipolar or bipolar and what is the differance?

Lou

Dear Lou,

It would be gret if you could mill a circle in a piece of aluminium, and then measure the roundness of this. It gives quickly an idea about the accuracy of the system. Also, if you could measure the table travel, this would be great. I am about to order a kit from syil, but I might ask for slightly longer scews, to make sure I can use the mamimum table travel ( I might have to do a custom end plate for the X axis, but that is no a that big effort)
Thanks for the info.

Lou,

If the steppers are 4 wires, they are for sure bipolar.
I do not think Syil would use unipolar, as this would not give the best performance.

Hi OB

The steppers are defiantly 4 wires each. You can see from my photo in an earlier post. I will have to wait until I have it running to do the circle test. I think it will be very good because there is no play at all in the ball screw that I can feel. There is one optical sensor for the X Y and Z axis for home position or limit stop. Depending on the location of the flag that will determine the travel. The scale on the table goes from zero in the center to 200 mm on each side. I don't know if I can get 400 mm (15.75") of X travel out of it though.

Lou

Though unipolars do not give the better performance, they are more cost efficient due to simplicity in the circuit. It is good to know that the drivers are bipolar. I am waiting for a price from Syil on the drivers.
Lou, on my X3 I can get 16" of travel in the X. I could get more if I bothered ot mill away a section of the end plate, I could gain another 2" of travel this way. You should be able to get something close to that with your SX3

Phantomcow2, Lou, correct, the X travel is a bit more than 400 mm. However, Y is a bit more critical, as the travel is much less. From spec it is 160 mm on a regular X3 manual mill. If it is still 160 mm on the cnced mill, I purchase the mechanical kit from syil really quickly. Otherwise, I will have to ask them if it is possible to get a slightly longer Y ball screw.

Guys,

We need to back up and get a bird's eye view at the overall picture (or in this case Lou's Pic's). Now Lou, that is some piece of work. The engineering, detail and thought behind your landing gear is really something. If your were able to produce those on you previous machine, just imagine the machining you will be doing using that new little screamer!!!

You know guys, sometimes we appreciate the machine more than than the skill running it. These things are just metal with intelligent design behind them. But when coupled with the inspired mind (Lou's) in this case, something wounderful occurs (hence the landing gear). Lou, I can't wait to see what else climbs out of your basement!!


I too will be looking forward to your report when you test drive the new machine and look forward to seeing your 103" Tiger Cat in the Air!!

Let us know how it's going when you come up for air,

Ron

Hi lou,

I would really like to see your enclosure... It could save my some time ;)

And really nice retract... don't forget to show us picture of the complete F7F project.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Ronny:

No problem. I will post a drawing package. All the parts can be gotten from home depot except for the clear PETG plastic sheets. I ordered that from McMaster. The base and the top are finished. Attached are some photos of the base. It is made from 1/8" ply wood with 1x4 frame and 3 layers of 3/4" ply for the mill support. I fiberglassed with one layer of 6 oz cloth and epoxy resin and and then panted it with marine polyurethane paint.

By the way I got the Mill down in my work shop. It took four guys and a heavy duty hand truck. With the table and the monitor tray gismo removed it fit on a hand truck very nice. Then it was one step at a time to get it to the basement. I ordered a folding 1 ton shop crane (engine hoist) from harbor freight. With this I can easily move it around by my self if I have to get at the electronics in the rear. You can see it here Shop Crane (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93840)

Lou

Hi Ronny:

As far as the F7F goes there is not much to show yet. Just the nose gear and I started the fuselage during all the rain we had a week or so ago. This is a winter project. I just finished a really big Stearman biplane that I was working on for about 2 years. You can see a video of it that we took a few weeks ago on its first and second flight here Flight of the Stearman (http://liarsrc.com/video2/Flight%20of%20the%20Stearman%20(Web).wmv)

I am semi retired so I have a lot of time to play.

Any news of operation?

That stearman is beautful. :cheers:

I was waiting for a loop or a barrel roll, but I don't think I would have the guts to do one on the first flight either. (probably don't want to total it on the maiden voyage). :)

I bought a X3 4-axis CNC with coolant upgrade, table vise, collet chuck, rpm upgrade, and tailstock with live center.

Can't wait to see it (though I'm sure it will be a month or two minimum.)

Hi jinu:

Haven't turned it on yet. Been busy getting the old one up for sale on eBay and this weekend is a big Warbird Model Airplane meet in Delaware.

Hey Green, thanks for the comments. I was just happy to land it in one peice. By the way what is a tailstock with live center? Will that let you use it as a lathe when the head is rotated 90 degrees? Or does it go with the rotary table? If you have any photos of it please post it.

Lou

Hi jinu:

Haven't turned it on yet. Been busy getting the old one up for sale on eBay and this weekend is a big Warbird Model Airplane meet in Delaware.

Hey Green, thanks for the comments. I was just happy to land it in one peice. By the way what is a tailstock with live center? Will that let you use it as a lathe when the head is rotated 90 degrees? Or does it go with the rotary table? If you have any photos of it please post it.

Lou
yes its used with the rotary table to prevent long part from flexing under load and yes it could be used to turn your mill in a sort of small lathe

That sounds neat. I have been using the spindle to as a poor mans lathe. I put a tool bit in my vise and just move the x and z axis. The parts have to be short and small in diameter. The largest stock I could fit in my old mills collets was 1/2". I did it mostly to cut e-ring grooves.

If you are turning a part using the rotary table (which rotates very slowly) do you just use an end mill to do your cutting? Would you cut from the top down or using the side of the milling cutter as the part rotates?

Lou

The tailstock wih live center supports the part rotating in the 4th axis under load as the guy above said.

You can't really turn your mill into a lathe, but some basic operations like outside threading or cutting an o-ring groove it could do.

Primarilly I would be using the rotary table simply to turn out four sided milled parts on computor without having to re-position the part.

I'm really psyched about the machine but my background is just a little basic milling and some auto-cad.

I will have to learn how to program a machine to actually cut a part.

"That sounds neat. I have been using the spindle to as a poor mans lathe. I put a tool bit in my vise and just move the x and z axis. The parts have to be short and small in diameter. The largest stock I could fit in my old mills collets was 1/2". I did it mostly to cut e-ring grooves."

Funny you say that, I actually did the same with my X2 mini mill and the cutting tool out of a fly cutter. It worked for two operations on a stainless tool steel part and the cutter was shot.


"If you are turning a part using the rotary table (which rotates very slowly) do you just use an end mill to do your cutting?"

Yes you would use an end mill, but I am not sure about method, I would have thought the table would just turn as the end mills flutes cut the groove, but maybe I'm wrong.

You could probably do turning too, but I would rather just buy a mini or bench lathe.

well actually you can use one of these if the head of your mill can be tilted 90 degree all you need is a R8 to mt2 adapter
http://www.brassandtool.com/images/7-860-Rotating-Chuck.jpg

I also killed a tool bit cutting stainless. I was using type 303 which is the easiest to machine. I found that the reason was that I was cuttng way to fast. There is a nice calculator at Little Machine Shop (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php)

First you choose if you are turning, milling or drilling, Then select the material you are cutting and then plug in the diameter of the tool or work. I had no problem after that.

The reaon I asked about how to milll on a rotary table I needed to turn down 1080 steel stock that was 3" diam x 1" long to 1.375 dia x 3/4" long. I had no problem facing it off and adding a 6 hole bolt pattern in it. Then I mounted it to the rotary table with the axis of the part horozontal. I used a 1/4" carbide cutter and took .010" off per pass. I moved the cutter in the x directiion and at the same time rotated the table 6 x as it moved so I would get a good overlap. It worked but there was a lot of chattering. This could be due the backlash in my old rotary table.


Lou

Be careful guys, you are talking about doing things here that are not what the equipment is designed for. If you have the knowledge and experience you can get away with a lot. A novice can get himself in a lot of trouble. Trying to turn in a rotary table using an endmill is neve going to produce a reasonable result. Mounting a chuck in your mill spindle could be dangerous. That's a lot of mass to be swing around at high rpm on a morse taper.

Regards
Phil


I also killed a tool bit cutting stainless. I was using type 303 which is the easiest to machine. I found that the reason was that I was cuttng way to fast. There is a nice calculator at Little Machine Shop (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php)

First you choose if you are turning, milling or drilling, Then select the material you are cutting and then plug in the diameter of the tool or work. I had no problem after that.

The reaon I asked about how to milll on a rotary table I needed to turn down 1080 steel stock that was 3" diam x 1" long to 1.375 dia x 3/4" long. I had no problem facing it off and adding a 6 hole bolt pattern in it. Then I mounted it to the rotary table with the axis of the part horozontal. I used a 1/4" carbide cutter and took .010" off per pass. I moved the cutter in the x directiion and at the same time rotated the table 6 x as it moved so I would get a good overlap. It worked but there was a lot of chattering. This could be due the backlash in my old rotary table.


Lou

"Trying to turn in a rotary table using an endmill is neve going to produce a reasonable result."

But you can mill with a rotary table right?

I thought that was the whole point.

........Y is a bit more critical, as the travel is much less. From spec it is 160 mm on a regular X3 manual mill. If it is still 160 mm on the cnced mill, I purchase the mechanical kit from syil really quickly. Otherwise, I will have to ask them if it is possible to get a slightly longer Y ball screw.
This is my concern. I have a super X3 and the stock travel on my "Y" is actually 145mm.
Syil are quoting 120mm because of the double nuts. They said it could be 160mm if you remove one nut???
Looking at all the photos I can find of their setup and looking at my machine it would seem that making the "Y"screw 40mm
longer would not be that much of a big deal.

If anyone cares as much as I do and wants to discuss it then maybe a new thread is in order. :)

Greolt

I know I was using the SX3 travels, on SEIG's site. I really hope I don't lose that. I'll have to ask Syil for a special order if that's the case. I need that travel.

Hi Ronny:

No problem. I will post a drawing package. All the parts can be gotten from home depot except for the clear PETG plastic sheets. I ordered that from McMaster. The base and the top are finished. Attached are some photos of the base. It is made from 1/8" ply wood with 1x4 frame and 3 layers of 3/4" ply for the mill support. I fiberglassed with one layer of 6 oz cloth and epoxy resin and and then panted it with marine polyurethane paint.

By the way I got the Mill down in my work shop. It took four guys and a heavy duty hand truck. With the table and the monitor tray gismo removed it fit on a hand truck very nice. Then it was one step at a time to get it to the basement. I ordered a folding 1 ton shop crane (engine hoist) from harbor freight. With this I can easily move it around by my self if I have to get at the electronics in the rear. You can see it here Shop Crane (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93840)

Lou


Hi Lou,

Thanks for the picture...

Your Stearman is absolutly superb... I really love this big bird ;) If only I have more time :rolleyes:


If I know before that they have a tailstock wih live center I would have order it.... But not to try to use the mill as a lathe, it will give very poor result... But to support longer part or jig use with the rotary for milling operaton.

CrazyRonny

This is my concern. I have a super X3 and the stock travel on my "Y" is actually 145mm.
Syil are quoting 120mm because of the double nuts. They said it could be 160mm if you remove one nut???
Looking at all the photos I can find of their setup and looking at my machine it would seem that making the "Y"screw 40mm
longer would not be that much of a big deal.

If anyone cares as much as I do and wants to discuss it then maybe a new thread is in order. :)

Greolt
I have reposted this on a new thread if any one is interested in this question
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=176725#post176725

Has anyone heard from Syil recently?
I place my order (deposit) with them and wanted to add stuff to my order.
However, they have not answered any of my email sent since last week.
Anybody else out there ordering these SX3 CNC?

Has anyone heard from Syil recently?
I place my order (deposit) with them and wanted to add stuff to my order.
However, they have not answered any of my email sent since last week.
Anybody else out there ordering these SX3 CNC?


Left 3 emails in last 4 days now and not a single response. And this is for new order, quote, etc... I might be going the other way for this.

Has anyone try to get with him through MSN? He's usually on late at night. I'll keep an eye tonight.

I got an e-mail last night, reguarding my request for longer Y travel. I'll probably e-mail him again tonight with more info.

I have been getting good email response.
They will add 40mm to Y axis screw no problem. At my request.

"I have been getting good email response.
They will add 40mm to Y axis screw no problem. At my request."

I don't know if I will need it, but I would have done that if I'ld have known.

They should really work up an options worksheet to help people finalize an order.

the language barrier probably plays a MAJOR roll in the lack of communication. that is why i'm just going to wait for lou's and ronny's reviews. then i'll start farting around with getting serious.

Haha... finally got communication channel going and so far it has been satisfactory. I don't think they have proper infrastructure on how orders are handled (meaning there are some loop holes that can happen in comunication). Typical of start up business which mine is too.. (sometimes, I let go of e-mail that need attention for 1-2 days till he reminds me and I find that I didn't respond back... which I am shameful of...)

i understand everybody focus us,but resently,we are very very busy for orders.and also in touch some distributor in US,becuase in future we will use US retailer to instead our international ordering.it is easy and faster delivery ,also payment conveniently for every US clients.

if any friend email us that we didin`t reply in time,please forgive us.also if any one need procedure pic,please email to me.and i will sent to you.
:banana:
Sales of Syil.
www.syil.cn

syil has contacted me frequently through email. :cheers: but in the end, after lou and ronny's reviews, i may just wait for the united states brokers to have the machine available. but it will probably cost just as much, if not more than just ordering direct from china. call me a wimp, but i'm afraid of all that importing business.

yes thats what saddens me as soon as it gets sold in the US the price will rise for sure quite a bit

yes,that is our problem right now,how personal clients reduce cost always is our headache.but don`t worry.them also will not increase too much.becuase our price right now every one konw it.

ok,any info just sent email to us.thanks for your consideration.
Sales of Syil.

Sorry it is taking so long to get up and running but let me explain what is going on.
My unit is safely down in my workshop sitting on the floor. I purchased a 1 ton shop crane from Harbor Freight that arrived last weekend. The boxes were poorly packed. It came with out the jack so a new one should arrive today. Hopefully it will have the jack in it. I will need it to lift the CNC mill up and put it in place on the coolant enclosure base. Since the electronics are all in the rear and inaccessible the shop crane will come in handy if I need to make some adjustments.

In order to move the unit downstairs to my workshop I removed the X,Y table from the base. I saw that the easiest way to do this was to take the ball bearing stop off the end ball screw and unthread the ball screw. The table came free nicely.

Caution! Do not do this! I spent all evening last night getting the balls back in the ball nuts. I used tweezers and grease. It is very difficult but not impossible. The way to do it is to remove the stepper motor and then the thrust bearings and motor mount. Leave the ball screw in place in the ball nuts and slide the table forward and out.

When I placed my order I asked if the controller supported a coolant pump and spindle so that they both could be turned on and off in G-Code. I got an answer that was positive but due to a miscommunications and the language difference it is not exactly