Hi everybody,

I have just place my order for a 4axis CNC converted SIEG SUPER X3 from "SyiL" and I want to share this experience and process with you.

First I want to introduce myself.

I’m from Quebec Canada, my spoken language is French so I wish that you will excuse me if my English is not perfect but I will try to do my best.
I have a formation as an engineering technician; I work for Doppelmayr-Ctec ski-lift in St-Jerome and as the company name implied, our business is to produce Ski-lift. I’m in charge of the method department here. We do all the process method, process planning, the entire cnc program for 3 mills, 2 lathes and a plasma cutter. But I don’t program and design anymore four a couple of year now :frown: , I supervise and do production planning mostly now.

Like most of you I dream of having my personal cnc, I bought a lot of pieces to build my own router table, in fact I have almost everything two build two of them… but I don’t really have the time to complete it… I also have a 10x20 lathe and a round column knee mill that I will like to cnc also but again I don’t know when I will have the time to learn how do it and to build it.

Than I saw the add from SyiL http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20028 And I fall in love with this mill and I found the price very reasonnable. I exchange a couple of email with them ( hummm maybe more than a couple :rolleyes: ) and I finally take the decision to make my dream come trough and I order “my” CNC converted SIEG SUPER X3 with the fourth axis option.

My first impression of this company is really good. The communication by email with them is excellent. The people at SyiL are very kind and always helpful, they reply to all my email in a really short time ( in fact I don’t know if they take the time to sleep )…

The building process of my “New Toy” should take about 2 weeks before the shipping and they are kind enough to offer to send me some picture so I could follow the building process. I would post this picture here so you could se it to.

This is what my "baby" will look like :)

http://syil.com.cn/cn/images/da/figure2.jpg


CrazyRonny :cheers:

rad.

jealousy.

Congrats!

Hi Ronny:

I also purchased one today. Mine is also the 4 axis version with a very nice stepper controled rotary table, upgraded spindle speed, a keyless chuck and collet set. I am using my own freight forwarder to receive it. I was very impressed with the high level of the componants that are in this unit. In fact I am planning to import them using containers to save on the shippng costs and offer it with one of our industrial computers.

Please let me know your if you think there will be much intrest in this type of product.

Lou

Thanks for Mr Ronny and Mr Lou Support.we will make best for your.we will also post some X2,X1,CNC set soonly.

also,we will update some CNC working Video for you,but it is so big hardly to post on the web... (chair)

by the way,we will upload to our web of video soonly.then every one can download at www.syil.cn

Hi Ronny:

I also purchased one today. Mine is also the 4 axis version with a very nice stepper controled rotary table, upgraded spindle speed, a keyless chuck and collet set. I am using my own freight forwarder to receive it. I was very impressed with the high level of the componants that are in this unit. In fact I am planning to import them using containers to save on the shippng costs and offer it with one of our industrial computers.

Please let me know your if you think there will be much intrest in this type of product.

Lou

Hi Lou,

I think people will have a big interest in this mill... I have a big interest... I bought one :rolleyes: . But a lot of people don't want to deal with oversea transaction and shipping, if they can buy it locally the interest will be higher I think... but at a reasonnable price ;)

Thanks to tell me that they have a spindle speed upgrade available... I just add this option to my mill to. :)
I also add the coolant system, at first I think it was include because I saw it in all the picture but it's my mistake and it is an option. But with the low cost of all the options they offer it is not worth not having it.



This is the picture of the nice rotary table with the 3 jaw chuck they use for the 4 axis
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/3-JawchuckRotarytable.jpg



And this is the Collet chuck kit option.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/Millchuck.jpg


CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Ronny

Yes, that is the rotary table and chuck. However, I asked them to install a stepper on it to connect to the 4th axis. I also purchased the collet and chuck option kit. The high low speed spindle motor in the stock x3 mill has a max rpm of 1700 acording to Syil. It comes with a digital readout showing the rpm with a variable speed adjustment. I had them upgrade it to a max rpm of 3,500 with a gear change and a change to the LED to indicate the correct rpm.

I built a really neat enclosure with flood cooling and drainage system for my current machine. I hope I can modify it for the larger table and travel.

Hi Lou,

They will build the mill with all the four axis ready to go... in fact it's a plug and play type of mill that I will receive ;)

You have a very neat enclosure, I will have to made one when the mill arrive or I may flood my shop (chair)


To everyone who as an interest in this mill... Please note that I do not work for SyiL, I'm not a salesman, only a customer that want to share is experience... and understand that I will not discuss or talk about price here, if you want a quote or price you can go at http://www.syil.cn or send an email to Xushuo or Bibaco at sales@syil.cn they are great people to deal with and I'm sure that they will answer all your question.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

That is one awesome looking conversion. I went to the web page to learn more but it just times out with no connection. Is the Syil site still around? :confused:

Hi Spuds:

I am looking forward to getting it. They said two weeks to build and then shipping time.

Try adding www in front of syil.cn The web site won't connect with out it. http://www.syil.cn

After that be patient becasue it is slow to come up. I just tried it and it does work.

Lou

SO did you guys order it through email, since they are not taking online orders?

Hi Spuds, you're right I couldn't log in their site this WE, but it's OK today , and they add new pictures, now I'm waiting for CrazyRonny to get news, when do you receive CR,
Regards from France

hello,everyone.

how are your,and we want to make online order,but paypal we need apply a USA Account,otherwise them can not transfer money to china credit card.
the china paypal only support china domestic transfer.so we are still in apply.then in future we will have online ordering.

now the order of Ronny have been producting,we will update news soonly.

any other questions please email to us.
also,our web it is ok,i test many times.hehe.

Syil.

SO did you guys order it through email, since they are not taking online orders?

Hi redbaron, I order by email and send money with Bank money TT, it was the first time that I make this kind of transaction but it's easy.


This is the picture of my Mill that SyiL send me.... The CNC conversion process is already begin :)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/SyiL_MyX31.jpg

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Ronny:

I also did the same. It is very secure for the person receiving the funds but you need to make sure it is legitimate. Once it's sent you can't un-do it.

Cool photo.

Lou

Looks like a clean conversion from the pictures. Are the ballscrews rolled or ground and what kind of accuracy are they?

Ordered on the 9th May received on the 16th May, all the way from China. That's really quick. Almost to good to be true. Or have I missed something here.

Regards (chair)
Phil

Hi redbaron, I order by email and send money with Bank money TT, it was the first time that I make this kind of transaction but it's easy.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Phil:

Did they ship by air? If so how much was the cost for shipping?

I see you are in Norway. Is it possible that they sent it by truck and or train to you? I am in Long Island, New York. Shipping via boat takes about 5 weeks to me. I ordered mine by slow air which is suposed to take about 1 week.

In any case how to you like it?

Lou

Ordered on the 9th May received on the 16th May, all the way from China. That's really quick. Almost to good to be true. Or have I missed something here.

Regards (chair)
Phil


Hi Phil,

Effectively I think you miss something here, or my english is very bad :rolleyes:

I have not receive the mill.... as I said this picture was send to me by SyiL, they receive my machine and they begin the cnc conversion process... We will follow the conversion that Syil (in China) made to the super X3 I bought with the picture they will send me in the process.
After that they will ship it... I wish.... Lol (chair)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

look everyone require them order urgently,hehe,we are in hurrp production.
some items like speed inprove also need we make new motherboard.so need some days.but will soonly.
those day we just take every parts sperate and cleaning them one by one,then packing them,becuase the original X3 parts and accessories,we will packing them and sent to clinets eventhough after update CNC.

Mr.lou i see your working room pic,very clean.is it X1 CNC which your have?

Hi Mr Xushuo:
Yes, that is an X1 CNC. The main problem with it is that it has servo motors that are under powered. It will not loose steps because of the encoder but it can easily go over current and then it will stop. My only solution is to have it move very slowly and adjust the acceleration to be very gradual so it does not stall.

I did research on building my own X3 with servo and stepper motors. If the stepper motor is sized correctly it will be nearly impossible to loose a step unless you run into a hard stop. Using servo motors presents many other problems and would not be a good solution for an X3 machine. You are using the same size stepper motors and ball screw lead that I calculated would be best for this machine.

I am looking forward to the new CNC Mill. I am going to try to use the existing enclosure if possible and make some changes to support the longer table and increased travel.

I think an enclosure would be an excellent option to offer for your unit.

Lou

Here is a shot of the X3 I converted some 2 year ago.

Ken

Thanks for the tip on getting to the web site .... I am looking at it now. It looks like a very impressive kit. I'll be interested in reading an end user reivew on the capabilites of the system in action. Also interested in the conversion kit as I already have and X3, what mills modificaions are required to install the kit?

Hi Ken, your conversion work on X3 looks cool! from the picture, it seemed that you changed the spindle motor with a frequency changing motor or servo spindle motor, It's of much more power.. right?

and I can't see the conversion on Z axis, did you modify it too?

Bibaco
www.syil.cn

Hi Spuds,

we will support photos and everything we can provide to Crazy Ronny and then you will see the whole review....

If you convert the mill by yourself, you can finish the job just with a electric drill and a hacksaw...of courese, the X3 is heavy, maybe you will need several friends to help you move the parts,he he

of course, we will ofer a manual guide for your work.

Bibaco

syil

In order to stay with 120 VAC input, the VFD drives a 1/2 HP 56C frame motor. With a 220 VAC input, the sky's the limit.

I utilized the stock Z axis lead screw and drive it with a 3:1 pulley ratio from one of the same servo motors as the X and Y axes.

The X and Y have 5/8" DIA 5TPI ball screws with double nut configuration.

The machine has proven itself well since all my mods aside from the acheivable surface finish which suffers from the distance between the collet gage line and the lower spindle bearing.

Ken

Thanks for your introduction. a very good work you've done! Ken.

Hi Ronny, have you received my latest pictures ?

Bibaco

Hi Ronny, have you received my latest pictures ?

Bibaco


Hi everybody,

This is the last picture that I receive this weekend... sorry for the delay I was out for some rainy vacation :rolleyes:

They received several parts needed for the conversion. stepper motors,
coolant pump and ball screws. The stepper mounts are under manufacturing now.

The serious work is in progress :)



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/part1.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/part2.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/part3.jpg

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Are those ground ball screws. they look very nice units.

If you are going to use flood coolant are the steppers adequately sealed against the ingress of coolant. Their are not normally, straight out of the box.

Regards
Phil


Hi everybody,

This is the last picture that I receive this weekend... sorry for the delay I was out for some rainy vacation :rolleyes:

They received several parts needed for the conversion. stepper motors,
coolant pump and ball screws. The stepper mounts are under manufacturing now.

The serious work is in progress :)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

How does this X3 mill stack up to the Taig CNC mill? It seems to be a good bit larger for around the same price (prior to shipping).

Is it as accurate or does it need some work to make it accurate? The Sieg lathes tend to get some real slack compared to others out there.

well,many reply from every friend,hehehe.
more technical info please sent email to support@syil.cn
thanks for my friend Mr Ronny again.

Xushuo

Are those ground ball screws. they look very nice units.

If you are going to use flood coolant are the steppers adequately sealed against the ingress of coolant. Their are not normally, straight out of the box.

Regards
Phil

Hi Phil,

I ask your question to SyiL and they reply back very fast as always, thanks to Bibaco and Xushuo.

..."The ball screws are of rolled type, but of high level from Italy,
assembled in China. it contains two coupled nuts, with pre-compressure to
eliminate backlash. They will provide engough accuracy for X3 applications."...

..."We add the stepper motor shells for X, Y axis to protect the stepper
motors from ingress of coolant."...

For the "Z" axis, I know the stepper is in the base so it is protect by it's location.


Just A little note to everybody that follow this thread: Personnaly I did not ask the ball screw type question before I bought the machine... Why you will ask?... Because we speak about a complete CNC mill here ready to plug on the parallel port of your computer, and at an actual advertise base price of $2,990... Honestly, I did not expect to have ground ball screw on it, and I do not expect to have top quality part all over the machine also.

We have to remain realistic, we can not ask to have $10,000 of top quality component on a $2,990 complete CNC mill. But what I expect is to have a good little machine for my hobby use, to do some prototype and maybe some small production run...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Here we are very special thanks for Mr Jay de Halas. a friend from Colorado,US.
he use 3 days to translater all english word mistake of our website.,and also order one conversion set from us too.
thank you again my friend.

Syil.

Syil;
Thanks!!!!

Jay

??? 2990 u.s. dollars i hope yall guys aint dealing in stolen goods !!!

no really that is a sweat deal and i'm sure your gonna have lots a fun of this baby

is this including the 4th axis ,flood coolant ,collets/chuck ,ballscrews ??

??? 2990 u.s. dollars i hope yall guys aint dealing in stolen goods !!!

no really that is a sweat deal and i'm sure your gonna have lots a fun of this baby

is this including the 4th axis ,flood coolant ,collets/chuck ,ballscrews ??

Hi ironDigit,

No stolen goods here (chair) ... but I realy think it's a deal :)

The ballscrews is include in the price but the 4th axis, flood coolant, collets/chuck and double spindle speed is some options.

CrazyRonny :cheers:

lo

would you mind sharing the total costs of the machine

cause with this kinds of deals out there its getting very hard for me to keep my future conversion cost efffective by far

i hate signing off on a challenge though

P.S. please some more specs.
like precision tolerance,inches per minute and so on

thx for the quick reply btw

hi,Mr Iron Digit,we have a order from Netherland too.and we will sent the goods by TNT to them.then your just contact him which my products good or not.
patrick@destrip.com

well i never doubted the quality of your conversion mr. SYIL
i'm just curious about the numbers since and i quote: They will provide engough accuracy for X3 applications.
doesnt tell me a lot cause i dont know what a X3 application is

at the otherside this forum is full of curious people like meself that don't need to be considering buying a product to ask some questions about it.

but one thing i'm sure of is most forum users appreciate staying anonimous and not being advertised with though i can only speak for meself

and last but not least :what i like most of cnczone is that info is shared with all users by putting it in threads instead of everybody PMíng/mailing eachother keeping the info limited to the receivers

keep up the good work mr.SYIL i still think your conversion looks mighty neat

I just received an update with photos from Syil

Here are some of his comments (sorry they are not in line with the photos)
--------------------

I took some photos today for you of our work progress and everything just go well, except some parts delayed to arrive.

we have not received the power supply and some wire cut mounts. when they arrive, everything will go faster.

When our orders are stable, we will have stock for the parts, then ,we can finish our work faster.

- coolant parts under manufacturing.

- CNC controllers we have prepared.

- the mill has been disassembled, waiting for ball screws replacement.

- Lou and Ronny's super x3 mills.

- the electical parts have been removed and sent to our electrical engineer for corret the spindle speed indicate correction.

- some mounts have arrived.made of steel.

- mill chuck set and rotary table waiting for cnc conversion.

- stepper motors and wire pipe

NEXT time I send you pictures, most of the parts will been installed on the mills.

Thanks a lot for your patience.

Best Regards,

Bibaco

syil
---------------

The rest of the photos.

Lou

Hi IronDigit:

I understand what you are saying but the proof is in the pudding. I won't know 100% until I get to play with it. The main reason I went with Syil is that I was seriously planning to build my own. I spent many hours researching the best parts I would need including the stepper motors, controllers and ball screws. The size I came up with was a bit on the over-designed end. I felt it was better to error on having too much power then not enough. Under normal and even abnormal conditions this size stepper will not loose position by missing steps unless it hits a hard stop. If I were to use servo motors and hit a hard stop the current would go through the roof. I would need some type of safety circuit to kill power before things burn up.

In any case my point is that the systems that Syil is building uses the same or better spec components than I would use. The Gecko drive I was considering has 10 subdivisions of step where the Syil has up to 100. The X3 mill that I can get would be the standard, this is the super version. It also has covers over the motors and a neat installation of the controller in the vertical support.

Two factors remain. precision and rigidity. I think the precision of the ball screws and stepper motors will be fine. The rigidly of the system will only be as good as the X3. This will not be like a Bridgeport but I expect it will be much better than a Taig. It is hard to give out specs on this factor.

Lou

Hi again everybody :)

I have some new pictures of the part and the construction process....


coolant parts under manufacturing.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic1.jpg


CNC controllers they have prepared.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic2.jpg


the mill has been disassembled, waiting for ball screws replacement.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic3.jpg


Lou and Ronny's super x3 mills.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic4.jpg


The electical parts have been removed and sent to there electrical engineer to correct the spindle speed indicator.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic5.jpg



Some mounts made of steel.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic6.jpg


Mill chuck set and rotary table waiting for cnc conversion.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic7.jpg


Stepper motors and wire pipe
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic8.jpg


The construction take a little bit longer than anticipate because they have much more order than they anticipate and they have not yet receive some parts they have order for my mill. When the power supply and some wire cut mounts will arrive at there factory, the construction procees will go faster.

But what is a couple more days to wait to have my own little CNC mill :)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Oupssss..... :rolleyes:

Lou,

It's look like you have been faster than me.....

CrazyRonny

And now some picture of parts they made with it:


Aluminium
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/samplepartaluminiumcut.jpg


Copper
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/samplepartcoppercut.jpg


Steel
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/samplepartsteel.jpg


CrazyRonny :cheers:

In any case my point is that the systems that Syil is building uses the same or better spec components than I would use. The Gecko drive I was considering has 10 subdivisions of step where the Syil has up to 100.

I'm not sure 100 subdivisions really buys you anything on a stepper system. Most steppers have a 5% step accuracy and 200 steps per revolution. So each step is 1.8 degrees (360/200) with a total accuracy or error of .18 (1.8 * 10%) degrees. 0.18 into 360 is 2000 so your resolution needs to be 2000/200 or 10 micro steps.

For you to get the benefit of 100 micro steps that same 200 step motor would need a positional accuracy of 1% (+/- .5%). Or you could get a stepper with 2000 steps per revolution and the +/- 5% accuracy.

At least that is how I think that all works :)

Hi Spuds:

I’ll grant you that 100 subdivisions may not be necessary. With the lead of the ball screw at 5 threads per inch, 10 subdivisions will give you a micro step each 0.0001 of an inch. 100 subdivisions will be 10 times finer. It may even run into a problem of how fast you can go because you need 10 times as many steps. Mach3 can do 45,000 pulses per second. That will equate to 45,000 x 0.00001 which is only 0.45 inches per second or 0.45 x 60 = 27 inches per minute. 10 subdivisions will give you 270 inches per minute so I may use something in-between. 2, 4, 5, 10, 20, 25, 50, 100 subdivision are selectable on the Syil controller.

With regards to the accuracy, the way I see it is that you can’t mix the accuracy of the stepper motor with the subdivisions. The stepper motor accuracy is a mechanical function of the position of the magnet poles in the motor. The subdivisions or micro steps are a function of the accuracy of the current levels of the electronics. You need to add the errors together. To get 100 micro steps you need to have 100 current levels and apply them to the 4 poles of the motor in sequence so it moves 1/100 of a step. Within each step the subdivisions could be very accurate depending on the design of the electronics. Since each micro step at 100 subdivisions will move the axis only one hundred thousandth of an inch and the electronic error would be some fraction of this distance. Of course this is more then negligible. Any full or micro step could be off by 1.8 x 5% = 0.09 degrees. That is not plus or minus 0.09 degrees. I agree that any micro step could also be off by 0.09 degree as well. However, each full step will move the axis by 0.001 inch. 5% of 0.001 inches is 0.00005 of an inch. This is well within the range that is acceptable. Of course that does not take into account all the other factors such as backlash, accuracy of the lead screw and everything else but just looking at the stepper motors and the way they are driven is quite good (in my opinion).

Lou

Ronny;
The machined parts look really great. What kind of feed rates are you getting with the Syil kits?
Which CAD and CNC packages are you using?
The parts look suspiciously like RF parts, if you don’t mind me asking, what are you making?

Thanks!!!!

Jay

Mr.Syil, I noticed on your website that you will offer CNC conversion of the SEIG lathes too. I would like to know more about that option.

Lou,

Thanks for your insight on the stepper accuracy, it’s a way to look at it that I had not thought about. I think the controller having a selectable subdivision is very cool, just a feature that could confuse folks who fall into the more is better syndrome.

I keep looking at the feature list of this kit vs. collecting all the components and doing it myself, keep going back and forth as it’s a compelling offering.

Ronny;
The machined parts look really great. What kind of feed rates are you getting with the Syil kits?
Which CAD and CNC packages are you using?
The parts look suspiciously like RF parts, if you don’t mind me asking, what are you making?

Thanks!!!!

Jay

Hi Jay,

The part picture in this thread is not mine, it's some sample picture that SyiL sent to me... I have not receive my mill yet, the building of my X3 is not finish so I cant tell you about the feed and speed...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Mr.Syil, I noticed on your website that you will offer CNC conversion of the SEIG lathes too. I would like to know more about that option.

I will be interest in a lathe me to. There is not a lot of small cnc lathe available out there...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

How long long until you get it in?

cheers

Hi Spuds:

I don't have first hand knowledge yet, because I am still waiting for my machine, but it was pointed out to me that stepper motors can be very harsh when used in full or half step modes. When 10 or more subdivisions are used it becomes incredibly smooth.

With regards to the due date, I was promised a two week lead time. However, I am having a few upgades which I expect to take additional time. One is to change the spinde speed from 1750 rpm max to 3,500. This will require a gear change and a modification to the spindle rpm digital readout. I also asked ble to include the 4th axis and to motorize the optional rotoary table. I don't have a ship date but I see that progress is being made.

Lou
.

With regards to the due date, I was promised a two week lead time. However, I am having a few upgades which I expect to take additional time. One is to change the spinde speed from 1750 rpm max to 3,500. This will require a gear change and a modification to the spindle rpm digital readout. I also asked ble to include the 4th axis and to motorize the optional rotoary table. I don't have a ship date but I see that progress is being made.

Lou
.


Same thing for me... I order it with the same option as Lou.

But the delay don't really bother me, I'm not really in a hurry and I tell them to take the time to build me a really good mill ;) ... and they reply that all there mill will be good (chair) ...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Do you guys have a set plan for the inportation re: taxes or similar fees for US inport? Thanks, Met...

Hi Met Lister:

The import duty is based on the type of product you are importing. There is a rate schedule for different types of products you can get from your shippng broker. I investigated that and found that the import duty is very small for the CNC Mill. I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was under $50.00 US. I am not sure what Canadian duty is for Ronny but I think it is about the same as the US.

Lou

Hi,every friend,did Mr bibaco sent update pic to your by emails?last night i go to factory to check,mostly items finish,and i think this weekend can be load your machines.
those day we are very busy for orders.
also, to North america tax and duty i think not expensive,it is accord the products values to pay,we also can provide lower invoice too,but i think only one set,it is very cheap.also mostly clinets require we sent by DHL or UPS,it is not charge any tax and duty...

Hi

I did not receive the new photos yet. Please send then when you can.

Lou

Hi Met Lister:

The import duty is based on the type of product you are importing. There is a rate schedule for different types of products you can get from your shippng broker. I investigated that and found that the import duty is very small for the CNC Mill. I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it was under $50.00 US. I am not sure what Canadian duty is for Ronny but I think it is about the same as the US.

Lou

The Canadian import duty from what I have found should be 6% maximum, of the declare value.

CrazyRonny

Hi,every friend,did Mr bibaco sent update pic to your by emails?last night i go to factory to check,mostly items finish,and i think this weekend can be load your machines.
those day we are very busy for orders.
....
...

Me to I have not receive any update picture of our mill....

But I will try to put them here as soon as I will receive it :)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi have receive some update picture of our CNC Super X3 construction from SyiL.


Y axis ball screw installation
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic09.jpg


X axis ball screw installation
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic10.jpg


work talbe view
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic11.jpg


Z axis CNC conversion
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic12.jpg


upper side view
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic13.jpg


total view( some part not installed yet)
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic14.jpg


speed upgrade--changed belt and wheel, digital speed readout correction circuit.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/pic15.jpg




And Bibaco said:

*********
"We have spend more time to stock of necessory devices, parts,accessories. and now we are doing our best for quicker assemble.


Best Regards,

Bibaco

Syil
*********

Thanks Bibaco

It really begin to look like something now ;)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hey guys, thanks for the replies on the duty fees. Not bad at all. I'm getting tempted :) ML

Hi Ronny and Phil and Lou and others in volved with the order of the SupeX3 converson to CNC. I was wondering if you have heard any more news on the delivery of your orders? Am I right in assuming that Syil is building each machine of yours COMPLETE? How is the PC going to be connected and such?

Thanks for all the knowledge!

Rich

I certainly hope your ready to open this machine up and look inside, being ready to do a cleanup before putting power to it. I hope for your sake that it has had proper care, but alas, i have seen where items like gear boxes are contaminated with circulating cast iron and such and machined areas not deburred ! You may well end up doing a full tear down and rebuild ! I have been impressed with the likely hood that to the asian "if it looks good on the outside, its good enough for the americans" Of course this is my own personal opinion !

Hi Ronny and Phil and Lou and others in volved with the order of the SupeX3 converson to CNC. I was wondering if you have heard any more news on the delivery of your orders? Am I right in assuming that Syil is building each machine of yours COMPLETE? How is the PC going to be connected and such?

Thanks for all the knowledge!

Rich

Hi Rich,

Yes the cnc Super X3 is completely build by SyiL. When we will receive it, the only thing that we will have to do is to plug it in the parrallel port of our computer....

For the delivery date... I must admit that I don't really know when it will be ready...

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hello friends,

We just test the 3 axis converted super x3 for Ronny and Lou, following are the pictures in this process.

cut test and evaluation of the converted super x3 for Ronny and Lou(2500rpm spindle speed, one round rough cut, one round finish cut). after the maching, I measured the size, the accuracy is no more than 0.02mm.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00148.JPG

the test program in MACH3.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00149.JPG

interface board, 4 axis microstep stepper dirvers(set to 25 microstep) and switch supply in the back shell. not installed on the machine just for test connection.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00150.JPG



Spindle speed upgrade by changing a 1:1 belt gear and a interface circuit in the digital readout to correct the speed show.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00153.JPG
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC00152.JPG

we now start to convert the 4th axis and it will be OK very soon. for the finished parts, we start to clean and coat it for best appearance. the next pictures we will post in this thead later.

Thanks to Ronny, Lou and other friends.

Bibaco syil

Hi Bibaco,

I'm glad to see that the construction of our mill progress :)

I must admit that I begin to be eager to receive it and to begin to make some chip with it ;)

CrazyRonny :cheers:

I see your running at 400mm/min which is nearly 16ipm, what depth of cut and size end mill is that?


Jon

Hi Ronny, the delivery of yours and Lou's will be soon... we will finish the convertion work in sevral days.

the gas spring has been succefully installed on your machines. Pictures just later....

---

Hi JFettig, the feed rate actually is 100mm/min in this program. 400mm/min is the rapid move rate. the program was designed when I use the 1700rpm max before the spindle speed upgrade..hehe
I think the feed rate can be near to 200 mm/min when 3000rpm. I don't rocommand use too high feed rate, it will help nothing to finished accuracy and surface. we must consider the rigidity and spindle speed of the small mill machine.

I used a 8mm milling cutter(3 blade) in the program. the depth is 6.7mm.

Thanks

So whats the price for the full kit?

So whats the price for the full kit?

Hi "Com",

As I wrote in one of my first post, I will not talk about cost here, because they are in a early stage with their company and the cost could be adjust...

But for a complete quote you could send an email at the guy's at SyiL and I'm sure the will be happy to give you a price with the options you want. And the base price is on there web site http://www.syil.cn.

Thanks to understand.

CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi "Com",

And the base price is on there web site http://www.syil.cn.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

I've looked at the web site, and haven't seen any prices at all, base or otherwise. Do you have a link that goes directly to this page?

Thanks,

I've looked at the web site, and haven't seen any prices at all, base or otherwise. Do you have a link that goes directly to this page?

Thanks,

Sorry Guy's... (chair)

You're right, the list price is not there anymore.... the only thing I can suggest you is to write an email and ask them directly. Sales@syil.cn

CrazyRonny

becuase we have been contact some dealer,so in future all North america order can be place from US directly by paypal.that is why we can not display the price online.

please sent email to us if need price to Sales@syil.cn

Your sincerely~
Www.Syil.cn

Wow thats all I got to say i'm freeking drooling.

Syil,
When do you anticipate conversion kits for the Sieg X1 being available?
Thanks.

Hello,

Yes we will get the conversion kit for SIEG X1, X2 avaliable as soon as possible. I can anticipate the time of about one month.

Thanks

following the earlier pictures of the conversion progress:

we specially developed a digital readout correction circuit and added it to the pannel PCB after the spindle speed upgrade.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a7.jpg

now showing the double speed than original.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a6.jpg

CNC control part as a whole in the added back shell. Containing 4 axis (or 3 axis)cnc drivers, parallel port CNC interface board and 500W power supply. This is also included in the convertion kit.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a10.jpg

gas spring added on the Z axis for Ronny and Lou's special require.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a8.jpg

the 4th axis conversion of SIEG rotary table. fit for hobby usage.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a11.jpg

Thanks to all friends.

Bibaco -syil

I owned the X1 mill for a while, I considered it to be on par with a taig AFTER the extended base and table (so about 500 dollars in all). Now, as an owner of the X3, I can say there is no comparison :). You will not be dissapointed

the 4th axis conversion of SIEG rotary table. fit for hobby usage.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/a11.jpg

Thanks to all friends.

Bibaco -syil

Hi Syil, can you tell me how much is the 4th axis setup alone? I mean just the table attachable rotating table and the stepper. Please send me an email or private message.

Thanks


Pablo

Hi everybody,

My Cnc Super X3 is complete, only need to take care of the shipping paperwork and pay the final bill ;)


Look at this beauty :)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/SyiL_MyX3_finish.jpg


The fun will begin soon....

CrazyRonny :cheers:

THat looks great. Let us all know how it works, and take pictures of things you make with it. What is the spindle RPM max now anyways?

yeah that lookin mighty good just the drill-chukk i dis-like on the picture
i'm sure you'll have some fun with this baby good luck m8
just keep us informed

I just contacted Syil tonight regarding the purchase of the SuperX3 CNC. Does anyone know what the shipping fee for this thing is? I know that Grizzly.com offers shipping for $89 but, this baby's coming from CHINA! any guess would be appreciated! I am in ND right in the middle of the U.S. Anyone?....Anyone?....

shiping cost not expensive,just time need be wait for around month,if you want to air transportation,it is faster,hehe,
don`t worry,we will have agent in US,and will have stock in US future.
thank you for your consideration.

xushuo

syil/xushuo,

please hurry and get your united states agent worked out. we NEED easier access to your product. there is money to be spent on our end and money to be made on your end! thank you. :wave:

bill g.

I heartily agree, two months from buying till going through customs is too long to wait for a product that we pay for up front. Willing to buy,..... not willing to wait so long.


BEST!!

NO kidding! let us know when you get that worked out! Im not forking over $3000 to wait 2 months with no idea what the shippings actually going to cost.
HEY, I KNOW! I'LL be your US DEALER! you can ship one to me and in a couple of months after I sell it , Ill send you the cash! :cheers:

Actually I think the person who is selling this is very sincere in his efforts to get these units out to the buyer. If it were not for the overseas distance I can tell he would be just making money hand over fist here in the US. As it is though, we have to pay a bit extra and wait a bit longer.

We are used to going down to Home Depot and getting exactly what we want when we want it. If I were in a position to wait a bit longer, I would. I think the product will be a fine one as it is, just a rough time waiting so long. I will most likely get one of these if a dealer is in the US, but cannot wait so long a time as it is right now.

Still I think whoever waits will not be unhappy.

we will be have dealer in US soonly,and we both konw distance it is our main problem.it is not every friend like Mr lou can pay high expense to get machiens from china by AIR plane.
we will think about how to sent some stocks to US mainland.and have been in touch some dealer right now.

Thanks Syil,

I know you are trying your best!!

Does anyone know how soon Syil replies back to your e-mails? After coming across this thread, I had to sign-up. I'm looking forward to owning one of these machines. :)

Bear in mind outr evenings are his early mornings, being that he is in China. I usually get direct answerbacks in the late eveing.

Hmm. Completly slipped my mind that he's all the way in China. :rolleyes:


Has or did anyone notice that on the SIEG Site. The photo of the Super X3 has the head tilted at 90*???

Since neither Grizzly's or HF's model doesn't meantion that. I'm curious. click here (http://www.siegind.com/Products/br-x3-super-lathe.htm) to see the picture. It's in the bottom right hand of the page.

:banana:

Or am I just getting excited over a feature that's not really there?

It looks like a swivel base, where the head meets the colum. The models sold by HF & Grizzly are standard X3, the one Syil is selling is the "Super X3". WOW! That appears to be the case, Good eye!

But how often are yougonna really use that?

Of course not often. BUT. Knowing it's there, when I do need it. Is always a plus.

I also just noticed that the standard X3 is rated as 3/4hp (600w) and the Super X3 is 1.1/3hp! (1000w)
thats nearly twice the muscle!

YES! it tilts. see here...Axminster.co.uk (sorry dont know how to add a link)

here's the photo

Very nice. Does anyone know how it rotates? I see no hand wheel.

With a long enough table. The head at 90*. A platform at the right height. You can have a mini lathe. Of course, a few things would be missing. But....if you were ambitous enough. You could mill them yourself. Just mount a tail stock and lathe chuck. BAM! 2 machines in one.

Do you really believe it is 1kw? I don't. I've owned now 3 Sieg products:
the mini lathe, micro mill, and the x3 mill. I've not found the motors on any of these to have the rated power. Did Syil end up replacing the actual motor to something more powerful, so that he can get his 1:1 and higher RPM? Or did he keep the same motor.
My X3 might have its actual .8HP, maybe a bit less. In Low range, it is nearly impossible for me to stop the spindle by hand.
One thing I really wish the X3 had, which Syils Super X3 does, is the motor is inside the head casting. That is beautiful, I don't like the hanging motor at the side at all. I hope to replace the motor and ditch the noisy gears and go belt drive w/ DC motor. The stock X3 does not have enough space inside to house a motor :(

Again Sieg seems to make a prettier machines for the Europeans !!!!

Well , if you bought your stuff at HF I doubt it!
They seem to over rate their motors. my (HF) X2 says 4/5hp but Seig rates it at 350w or just 1/2hp. I beleive this is accurate. the same i beleive is true of the mini-lathe.

Im sure glad I didnt buy the X3! Im gonna get me one of these Syil converted SuperX3. If we wait for there to be a "distributer" I bet the price will go WAY up!

They will want their share of the $ and I dont think theres much profit margin for Syil to split with them!

Long night, and can't fall asleep. Why not read up on news.

I forgot to edit my last post. It was...stating the obvious.


Should I try PM'ing Syil here, and get an answer? It's been about 2 days. And sadly, I'm an impatient person(Ironic ay?). Since I've been looking to get into the CNC world. I'm very very interested. Especially seeing what Syil's done.

Browsing google. I've come across a few things. And since I don't know from Syil. Maybe some of you who have talked to him, know. Does he offer the extened Dovetail colum(100mm I believe). Extended table? Expanded Table? Belt Driven or belt conversion? Coolent System? Way covers(I'll probably be making custom sets, as I've already got a few nice idea's)? Software packages? Joystick for jogging(looking to make custom as well)

Because of the language barriar, between us. I have another question. He(Syil) had said "No more than 0.2mm of accuracy" if I remember correctly. Would that be the equivilent to "No less than?" because there's a large difference between the 2. I'm perfectly happy with that kind of accuracy roughly 0.0008" if my math is correct.

I'm sure when I'm not as tired. I'll remember my many other questions. Which could be why I havne't gotten a replay back. lol

...
Because of the language barriar, between us. I have another question. He(Syil) had said "No more than 0.2mm of accuracy" if I remember correctly. Would that be the equivilent to "No less than?" because there's a large difference between the 2. I'm perfectly happy with that kind of accuracy roughly 0.0008" if my math is correct.

I'm sure when I'm not as tired. I'll remember my many other questions. Which could be why I havne't gotten a replay back. lol

Must be tired! :) :)
0.2mm is 0.007874". Not so good in my book. :cool:
China is 14hrs ahead of us (I am in Central time zone).. and observe some different holidays as us as well.

well if you re-read what Syil wrote he actually said 0.02mm which is 0.0007874"






:)

Hi everybody,

My mill is now waiting in China sea port, I do not want to pay the extra $$$ need for Air shipping... I'm not that much in a hurry.
But "Lou" did so we may have a review from "Lou" when he will receive is machine... What do you think about this idea "Lou" ;)


For the waiting time since I place my order... Keep in mind that SyiL is a company in a starting stage and I'm one of there very first customer. And to complicate everything me and "Lou" ask for some option that they are not ready for it yet, they have to make some engeneering and produce new part for our request to double the spindle speed. And both of us also order the 4th axis option. I see it like an almost custom build project so the delay is reasonnable for me.

Another thing that should not help the production delay of my mill.... and it's entirely my fault... it's this thread :rolleyes:
By making this thread I increase the interest in there products and give them more work at the same time...
But I'm glad if I have help this guy to start well because I really believe that they have a nice product and at an affordable price for hobbyist like me who can not afford real production machine.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

I just came across this thread. I bought the Grizzly MiniMill in January and did a CNC conversion with Kuroda linear actuators. In my opinion this is a great mill for the hobbyist- manual or CNC. My CNC conversion cost me about $2500 and I sold it on Ebay to free up funds so I could get a Bridgeport CNC (this hobby is addictive!). None of this includes my labor, or the risk that I took on in designing and building things myself.

Anyway, this Syril mill looks fantastic and should really fill a market need!

Must be tired! :) :)
0.2mm is 0.007874". Not so good in my book. :cool:
China is 14hrs ahead of us (I am in Central time zone).. and observe some different holidays as us as well.
Like Sammus Said. Syil said it was .02mm of accuracy. Guess I wasn't too tired last night. :P

When I read that, my heart dropped. And after reading the next one, it was back up where it should be. Glad it's what I had thought. Or i would be looking for something else.

Ronny,

That's good to hear. I'm looking forward to a review on this!

I am impatient too. (HAHA) Who isn't today.

I am anxiously awaiting some answers so I can get my order moving.

Anyone know what frieght is like from there to the US?

I hears it's about $100-$140 "to the nearest port " its after that that concerns me. I used to live in Seattle, I could have picked it up at the terminal, now I live in North Dakota! Whats UPS charge for a huge 300# chunk of steel delivered half way across the country?..... (chair)

Warren,

I just checked what they're asking from UPS. The only offers I got online, we air flights from Washington to Ohio. And that bill was estimated at over $1,000 USD. :(

Maybe 1 1/2ton truck and drive myself, seems to be a better option. Since I have an engine lift, it will be easy to move around.

That is of course, if it HAS to be flown.


On another note. Still no word from Syil. I'd really like some answers so. So I can get my order rolling. If it's going to take a month or so to get. The sooner it's started, the better.

I think it would be nice to calm down.

I think you guys are really going at this from a strange angle.

Air shipment of a 300lb mill? Try ground. Probably 1/3 that cost and that is neglidgeable.

I think that last I heard you could get a car shipped accross the US from WI to California for $1000. That's a 3000lb car. One tenth the weight here.

If any of my posts came across as upset, or mad. They wern't suposed to. lol

I went by what UPS had on their website. I entered the weihgt, package dimensions, and where it was being shipped. They gave two different options. And were both air. one was a little over $1000 and the other was over $1100.

I'm sure there may be other options. But I'm only going on what the site had said.

I didnt realize I was un-calm....

I just like to know how much everything will come to before I commit $3000

Im not rich and an extra $1000 to get it to my door would definatly be a "deal-breaker"

guys, you are crazy if you are thinking of using a major shipping company like UPS or DHL. Open up the phone book and call some ground freight companies. Someone might be moving stuff to your area... I shipped a 200kg audio console from hongkong for only $450US.

What you should also take into consideration is, whether or not the sea freight company covers customs brokage. A LOT OF SEA FREIGHT COMPANIES DON'T! You may have to organise your own customs broker to meet the cargo in a customs warehouse and to forward the appropriate documents to the US customs office to be cleared. If you are having your mill shipped by sea freight you need to do two or three things as soon as it has been consigned to the shipping company in the country of origin.

- Find out if you need to organise a customs broker. Ie. call the shipping company and ask! They will often have an inhouse customs broker that you can use, at a fee of course. Just don't leave it til the 11th hour... Ask when the cargo is first consigned so you have 2, 4, 6 or whatever weeks to organise your documentation if you have to. Cargo will only sit in a shipping warehouse for a week at the most, after that it will cost you $$$ for them to store it.

- You should request a copy of the consignment notice (also known as the Bill of Lading), a packing declaration that states exactly what is contained in the crate and a fumigation certificate if it is boxed in organic material like a wooden crate. Request them via mail and fax or email! In some instances the shipping company will require an original copy of the bill of lading. You might also be required to have more documentation... ask the shipping company!


It never hurts to ask, just be prepared to spend a few extra dollars and the time to organise your documentation. Sea freight isn't quick so you'll have a few weeks... Some shipping companies include customs clearance in the shipping so you might not even need to do anything. Better to ask then find out at the last minute!

I'm not rich either, but I think this is far and away the best deal on the market, so if I can't afford it, I can't afford the market.

Converting my X2 to four axis CNC with belt drive would cost $2200 for a kit I assembled myself, roughly similar to this kit, I think built four axis X2 machines are in the neighborhood of $4000-$6500 that $4000 is a very conservative estimate since the only estimate I have is the KDN summit.

So in other words, Syil apparently can supply a quality super X3 machine built and ready to go for less than the price of an X2 converted in the US.

If this works out I'll consider myself fortunate, as I don't have the funds to purchase this kind of light manufacturing capability any other way.

Now as far as a customs agent and all that jazz, that should be explained by the seller at the point of sale.

WOW! $2200 for a X2 kit? where you bee shopping?...

The mill is $500, the kit from Ron Steele is $600 with belt drive, and the electronic components are $600 and the table for the fourth axis is probably $300 or so [with manual locking and no guarantee that the motor will hold in place for milling so that's in the neighborhood of $2000 for a kit that I have to assemble and interface and work the kinks out of and that doesn't include x and y ballscrews.

The Syil kit is approximately that for a machine that has twice the capability and ballsrews. I just would rather not risk not being to assemble and interface it all as I don't know much about CNC.

Here you get little extras like a coolant system, a spindle speed display, and accuracy to the tune of .00078 With Ron Steeles conversion you get .003, because he doesn't include x/y ballscrews. Sure for $400 or more you might be able to retrofit, so then you might get .001 still not as good.

SO you're including the price of the Mill ($500) inyour "kit"
Rons kit is only $450 + $50 for the plans.

Where did I say the Syil product wasnt a great value?... Even compared to the standard X3 I beleive its a great deal!

Super has about 50% more power and includes rotating head & spindle Tach.
not to mention the CNC CONVERSION!

I was just wondering if anyone knew about the freight charges/procedures for importing such an item.

And isnt this kinda getting off the subject?

Now as far as a customs agent and all that jazz, that should be explained by the seller at the point of sale.

Maybe in a perfect world, but once the item is on the boat they are pretty much out of the picture as far as the sellers responsibility, legally. They can't give you infomation on the price of customs brokage, or port and wharf taxes... not to mention import duties and tarriffs because it varies from place to place, even within place to place. The wharf that the boat is unloaded at will charge you a fee, the union that the wharfies work for might also include a fee, the shipping company will probably include a fee for transporting your cargo from the boat to their warehouse... It may not be anything extremely huge but with taxes and brokage on top it all adds up at the end of the day.

I think the buyer has just as much responsibility to ensure everything is in order on their end... If you get things shipped via sea freight quite often this is pretty much expected. You have to act independently of the seller. The problems occur when people order sea freight because they see it as a cheaper alternative, and often expect the cargo to arrive at their door like a USPS box would.

If you are thinking about getting one of these I'd email or call Syil and get infomation about the shipping companies used for both Sea and Air freight, then call those companies at your end and ask questions, if you've never shipped sea freight tell them that. I don't think they will bite your head off... if you wait til the day the boat is getting unloaded to do so it might be a different story. You might find it cheaper to get one from a local distributor in the future...

"SO you're including the price of the Mill ($500) inyour "kit"
Rons kit is only $450 + $50 for the plans."

The only reason I was comparing it was because I was comparing it to SYILs price with the mill included.

You guys really play words and make a person have issues with self-control.

If I compared to their price including the mill and didn't include the mill would that be more fair?

You have to make risks if you want to profit, so I guess the question here is are you ready to lay money out or not. You act as though the price is exorbitant and it is less than 1/3 that of competing assembled US machines.

Hey guys, I'm a long-time lurker that finally decided to come foreward after reading this post. I had been looking for a smaller mill to convert for CNC, but Syil's pricing on a fully converted super X3 is great. However, I was wondering (and please excuse my naiveness if I missed something, I'm still learning :) ), when Syil regears the head for 3500 RPM, wouldn't the torque at lower RPM's suffer and affect or impair the ability for the machine to cut steels? Obviously the X3 is not an industrial machine, but I had thought it could at least cut some steels in it's OEM configuration of 1700 RPM. However, I don't want to find out that it can't with the 3500 RPM upgrade after it's at my port. Thanks. :cool:

Hello everybody,
Here's a picture from Syil, mechanics parts in progress.
I have bought a Super X3 in Germany, take a look at www.cnc-steuerung.com
And of course I'm waiting for the conversion kit (3 axes) from Syil.

I guess that is a good question about torque with the high-rpm conversion.

I don't know much about rev ranges for different materials and just asssumed the high RPM unit would be more flexible.

I called FedEx and that was probably stupid. they want $1000 to move a 400lb package fom LA to Wisconsin (what I had them quote.)

UPS is generally cheaper but I think I will want to go private freight on this.

I don't know what my nearest port would be. I wonder what the options are? Maybe if they do East Coast delivery NewYork or something would be smarter.

I'm right in the middle of mississippi LA and New york. I wonder if Chicago has a port that does deliveries? (chair)


UPS LA to me is $645 via freight (I just checked)

I just want to get an e-mail with a quote. :(

I think I'll pick it up myself. I'll take a few days off. For what it's going to cost in gas and time. It's not that bad. Plus it's an excuse to get out(ha ha).

What are some options other people are going with?

Yeah in calling three freight companies it looks like the cheapest I can get is $600 without insurance.

I still don't know what ports they can ship to so that's all figuring off LA.

I don't have a gate agent or whatever, so i can just assume this with insurance and a gate agent might cost $900 to $1000.


I'm not sure it would be any cheaper if I picked it up. Probably not. Driving to Iowa and back costs $200 for the 1200miles. I'ld assume it would be $600 to drive to California and back, which means that the Gulf is probably closer as I reccall driving to new Orleans is 1200 miles one way. This **** gets complicated.

thus, i cannot wait to see what the case will be when they get a U.S. supplier/importer. but i fear that will be months to years away from today.

Hi,

I have a quick question about this machine based on the pictures that I have seen. Has anyone noticed that the y-axis rails do not extend all the way to the column? What is going to happen to the accuracy of the table when you have a bigger job and it moves closer to the column? Looking at the pictures, it seems that the table is only going to be supported by around 2 inches of rails. Just my 0.02$.

Sebastian

group purchase probably would not even help matters...would it?

hey i was wondering i saw in one of the photo that there is a coolant kit that comes with it or is this an option

here is something that might interest some about the cost of shiping
http://www.superx3.com/howTo-buyDirect.htm

That was insightful. If that pricing is fairly accurate. I'll be spending that, plus gas to drive a very long way. Maybe picking it up myself may not be the cheapest route.

I think I will give another e-mail to Syil. :) I'd really like a quote to get the ball rolling.

Just wanted to say that the guys at Syil are very nice people, and got me a quote and purchase order extremely quickly even after my many questions. :) Money is going out by wire tomorrow, so they've got another happy customer, so far. :cool:

Had mine ordered the same as CrazyRonnie's, with 4th axis, gas strut, coolant option, chuck kit, and RPM modifier. As I had posted earlier I was concerned about the torque loss at a higher gearing, but the people at Syil say that the gearing is an easy change back. However, that still leaves the issue of the chip that modifies the speed display to account for the different gear ratio; after speaking with them, they said that they can install a switch to either turn the conversion on or off based on what gearing I want to run. Works for me. :cheers:

hey i got there price list but what is the fob next to the price of each item

Yeah I don't know either.

I just asked about some more options (wondering if maybe they might have the live center to match the forth axis, and maybe a clamping kit and table vise)


Maybe that would just make this too easy for me though?

FOB = Free On Board
What does it Mean? A trade term requiring the seller to deliver goods on board a vessel designated by the buyer. The seller fulfills its obligations to deliver when the goods have passed over the ship's rail.

Alan

FOB
I've heard it call freight on board, free on board, freight on the barrelhead.
The short story is if I state FOB: My Dock, it means as soon as it leaves my loading dock, you own it. Like a taillight warranty on a used car lot.

That works as long as there is a date given for the arrival.

Without that, coordinating for shipping on from there could be very tough.

FOB is like ex works. It is a way of defining a price it does not necessarily mean you have to pick it up at the factory gate. All the seller is telling you is that any costs beyond this defined point will be extra. Normally a seller will organise the shipping at his end. You have to handle the import paper work and local transport, from the arrival port to your premises. The easiest and probably cheapest is to contact a local shipping/fowarding agent.

Regards
Phil

That works as long as there is a date given for the arrival.

Without that, coordinating for shipping on from there could be very tough.

thx phil just cant wait to see the critic ounce ronny gets his this will probably be the deciding point for me

So no updates? This thread grabbed my attention and I swear I read all 10 pages. Just when I was going to place my order for a Taig.

hehe, I think just because Ronny's machine is on the sea now.....


Bibaco

syil

yes thats what i am basicly waiting for i want to see how ronny cnc will do

crazyronny is our "labaratory test rat" or guinea pig. syil, you may want to consider adding him to your payroll as a sales consultant. :cool:

Syil,

did you got my email(s) week or 2 ago? I dont have recieved any answer, could you resend please.

Btw, do you have also any progress related to C6 (lathe) conversion?

Regards,
Indrek at Estonia/Europe

.... syil, you may want to consider adding him to your payroll as a sales consultant. :cool:

I like this idea ... lol :rolleyes:

My mill is at the port right now. SyiL need to have the confirmation of my bank money transfer before I will receive the paper work to pick up the mill...
I don't know how all this importation paperwork will go as I'm really new to that... but I will see and keep you inform.

CrazyRonny :cheers:

I received my machine last Friday. It looks really nice. Actually it is very well made with supper rugged servo mounts for the X and Y axis. The Z axis mechanics is hidden behind the spindle control electronics and I can not see it. On top of the spindle controller goes the box with the power supply and 4 axis controllers. 3 are standard but I ordered mine with an A axis rotary table and chuck. Right now it is in my garage but it will be going in my basement workshop. I am in the process of making a coolant enclosure. The base is now finished and all fiber-glassed waiting to be painted. The upper section will be clear plastic sheets with an aluminum angle frame all riveted together. I have a separate clear splash shield that will clip on to the table. If anyone is interested I will make a drawing package with photos and post it.

Syil send me a configuration file for MACH3 so I would have too much setup to do. Thank you very much. I also received a PDF file on the controller which is very complete. So far I have not turned it on but as soon as my enclosure is finished I can play with it. Probably next week.

Attached are a few photos from my garage. The controller box mounts on the back side of the vertical column. I labeled all of the wires and removed them so it will be easier to move to the basement with out the controller attached. I also removed the table to reduce some of the weight. I was looking at removing the spindle head but it would have required disconnecting to many wires.

Lou

Nice Lou, Its about time !!! I was beginning to wonder if you guys would ever receive your machines. What was your total cost in the end?

What was the time frame as well?

Are the wires easy to unplug or is that a solder job?

So how long did it take to get your machine? Was shipping a hassle? What did you have to do?

Looks great!

Actually I paid the advertised price. Your configuration may be different than mine so give Syil an email and ask.

On my controller photo you can see a pair of green connectors on each the driver boards. The larger one goes to the stepper motors and the smaller one provides power to the card. The connectors can un-plug from the driver board but are to big to pass through the hole in the sheet metal box. There are screw posts for the wires so I labeled each one and then removed them from the connector so that the cables could be removed. No soldering required and I only needed to disconnect it because I have a narrow stair case to go down.

Shipping wasn't a problem. In my day job I run a business where we import computer chassis from Taiwan and China. I was planning to have the mill loaded on one of our ocean going containers but I didn't want to wait. It was also about a 1 thousand mile truck ride from Syil to the chassis factory in China. I used our shipping broker to have it air shipped to my home in Long Island NY. Took about a 10 days. The best price for shipping was from Syil but on the first order I wanted to have more control with my own broker.

Syil was very helpful even after I received it to answer questions.


Lou

Lou,
Congrad's, It's a boy, I know that your a proud new pappa. I can't wait to see some of your work and see the pic's (along with CrazyRon also). Watch your back taking that big boy down the stairs.

Well enjoy bonding with your machine and post pic's when you can.

Ron

Also, can you report on the performance of the motor drivers? I was thinking about buying them if I can find out whether they are unipolar or bipolar.

Hi Ron:

I am almost finished with my enclosure. I am going to need lots of help getting the mill downstairs. At least it is all down hill ha ha. It would be a lot harder going back up. I have a smaller CNC Mill that I have been making my own landing gear for model airplanes. My current project is a 103" wing span Tigercat that will be scratch built. You can see my nose gear design at:
F7F-Nose Gear (http://liarsrc.com/images/f7f-gear/)

Below are some photos of the finished gear. The rest of the project should take about a year to complete.

phantomcow2 I should be turning it on in about a week. I will give a full report on the performance. How do you tell if the steppers are unipolar or bipolar and what is the differance?

Lou

Dear Lou,

It would be gret if you could mill a circle in a piece of aluminium, and then measure the roundness of this. It gives quickly an idea about the accuracy of the system. Also, if you could measure the table travel, this would be great. I am about to order a kit from syil, but I might ask for slightly longer scews, to make sure I can use the mamimum table travel ( I might have to do a custom end plate for the X axis, but that is no a that big effort)
Thanks for the info.

Lou,

If the steppers are 4 wires, they are for sure bipolar.
I do not think Syil would use unipolar, as this would not give the best performance.

Hi OB

The steppers are defiantly 4 wires each. You can see from my photo in an earlier post. I will have to wait until I have it running to do the circle test. I think it will be very good because there is no play at all in the ball screw that I can feel. There is one optical sensor for the X Y and Z axis for home position or limit stop. Depending on the location of the flag that will determine the travel. The scale on the table goes from zero in the center to 200 mm on each side. I don't know if I can get 400 mm (15.75") of X travel out of it though.

Lou

Though unipolars do not give the better performance, they are more cost efficient due to simplicity in the circuit. It is good to know that the drivers are bipolar. I am waiting for a price from Syil on the drivers.
Lou, on my X3 I can get 16" of travel in the X. I could get more if I bothered ot mill away a section of the end plate, I could gain another 2" of travel this way. You should be able to get something close to that with your SX3

Phantomcow2, Lou, correct, the X travel is a bit more than 400 mm. However, Y is a bit more critical, as the travel is much less. From spec it is 160 mm on a regular X3 manual mill. If it is still 160 mm on the cnced mill, I purchase the mechanical kit from syil really quickly. Otherwise, I will have to ask them if it is possible to get a slightly longer Y ball screw.

Guys,

We need to back up and get a bird's eye view at the overall picture (or in this case Lou's Pic's). Now Lou, that is some piece of work. The engineering, detail and thought behind your landing gear is really something. If your were able to produce those on you previous machine, just imagine the machining you will be doing using that new little screamer!!!

You know guys, sometimes we appreciate the machine more than than the skill running it. These things are just metal with intelligent design behind them. But when coupled with the inspired mind (Lou's) in this case, something wounderful occurs (hence the landing gear). Lou, I can't wait to see what else climbs out of your basement!!


I too will be looking forward to your report when you test drive the new machine and look forward to seeing your 103" Tiger Cat in the Air!!

Let us know how it's going when you come up for air,

Ron

Hi lou,

I would really like to see your enclosure... It could save my some time ;)

And really nice retract... don't forget to show us picture of the complete F7F project.


CrazyRonny :cheers:

Hi Ronny:

No problem. I will post a drawing package. All the parts can be gotten from home depot except for the clear PETG plastic sheets. I ordered that from McMaster. The base and the top are finished. Attached are some photos of the base. It is made from 1/8" ply wood with 1x4 frame and 3 layers of 3/4" ply for the mill support. I fiberglassed with one layer of 6 oz cloth and epoxy resin and and then panted it with marine polyurethane paint.

By the way I got the Mill down in my work shop. It took four guys and a heavy duty hand truck. With the table and the monitor tray gismo removed it fit on a hand truck very nice. Then it was one step at a time to get it to the basement. I ordered a folding 1 ton shop crane (engine hoist) from harbor freight. With this I can easily move it around by my self if I have to get at the electronics in the rear. You can see it here Shop Crane (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93840)

Lou

Hi Ronny:

As far as the F7F goes there is not much to show yet. Just the nose gear and I started the fuselage during all the rain we had a week or so ago. This is a winter project. I just finished a really big Stearman biplane that I was working on for about 2 years. You can see a video of it that we took a few weeks ago on its first and second flight here Flight of the Stearman (http://liarsrc.com/video2/Flight%20of%20the%20Stearman%20(Web).wmv)

I am semi retired so I have a lot of time to play.

Any news of operation?

That stearman is beautful. :cheers:

I was waiting for a loop or a barrel roll, but I don't think I would have the guts to do one on the first flight either. (probably don't want to total it on the maiden voyage). :)

I bought a X3 4-axis CNC with coolant upgrade, table vise, collet chuck, rpm upgrade, and tailstock with live center.

Can't wait to see it (though I'm sure it will be a month or two minimum.)

Hi jinu:

Haven't turned it on yet. Been busy getting the old one up for sale on eBay and this weekend is a big Warbird Model Airplane meet in Delaware.

Hey Green, thanks for the comments. I was just happy to land it in one peice. By the way what is a tailstock with live center? Will that let you use it as a lathe when the head is rotated 90 degrees? Or does it go with the rotary table? If you have any photos of it please post it.

Lou

Hi jinu:

Haven't turned it on yet. Been busy getting the old one up for sale on eBay and this weekend is a big Warbird Model Airplane meet in Delaware.

Hey Green, thanks for the comments. I was just happy to land it in one peice. By the way what is a tailstock with live center? Will that let you use it as a lathe when the head is rotated 90 degrees? Or does it go with the rotary table? If you have any photos of it please post it.

Lou
yes its used with the rotary table to prevent long part from flexing under load and yes it could be used to turn your mill in a sort of small lathe

That sounds neat. I have been using the spindle to as a poor mans lathe. I put a tool bit in my vise and just move the x and z axis. The parts have to be short and small in diameter. The largest stock I could fit in my old mills collets was 1/2". I did it mostly to cut e-ring grooves.

If you are turning a part using the rotary table (which rotates very slowly) do you just use an end mill to do your cutting? Would you cut from the top down or using the side of the milling cutter as the part rotates?

Lou

The tailstock wih live center supports the part rotating in the 4th axis under load as the guy above said.

You can't really turn your mill into a lathe, but some basic operations like outside threading or cutting an o-ring groove it could do.

Primarilly I would be using the rotary table simply to turn out four sided milled parts on computor without having to re-position the part.

I'm really psyched about the machine but my background is just a little basic milling and some auto-cad.

I will have to learn how to program a machine to actually cut a part.

"That sounds neat. I have been using the spindle to as a poor mans lathe. I put a tool bit in my vise and just move the x and z axis. The parts have to be short and small in diameter. The largest stock I could fit in my old mills collets was 1/2". I did it mostly to cut e-ring grooves."

Funny you say that, I actually did the same with my X2 mini mill and the cutting tool out of a fly cutter. It worked for two operations on a stainless tool steel part and the cutter was shot.


"If you are turning a part using the rotary table (which rotates very slowly) do you just use an end mill to do your cutting?"

Yes you would use an end mill, but I am not sure about method, I would have thought the table would just turn as the end mills flutes cut the groove, but maybe I'm wrong.

You could probably do turning too, but I would rather just buy a mini or bench lathe.

well actually you can use one of these if the head of your mill can be tilted 90 degree all you need is a R8 to mt2 adapter
http://www.brassandtool.com/images/7-860-Rotating-Chuck.jpg

I also killed a tool bit cutting stainless. I was using type 303 which is the easiest to machine. I found that the reason was that I was cuttng way to fast. There is a nice calculator at Little Machine Shop (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php)

First you choose if you are turning, milling or drilling, Then select the material you are cutting and then plug in the diameter of the tool or work. I had no problem after that.

The reaon I asked about how to milll on a rotary table I needed to turn down 1080 steel stock that was 3" diam x 1" long to 1.375 dia x 3/4" long. I had no problem facing it off and adding a 6 hole bolt pattern in it. Then I mounted it to the rotary table with the axis of the part horozontal. I used a 1/4" carbide cutter and took .010" off per pass. I moved the cutter in the x directiion and at the same time rotated the table 6 x as it moved so I would get a good overlap. It worked but there was a lot of chattering. This could be due the backlash in my old rotary table.


Lou

Be careful guys, you are talking about doing things here that are not what the equipment is designed for. If you have the knowledge and experience you can get away with a lot. A novice can get himself in a lot of trouble. Trying to turn in a rotary table using an endmill is neve going to produce a reasonable result. Mounting a chuck in your mill spindle could be dangerous. That's a lot of mass to be swing around at high rpm on a morse taper.

Regards
Phil


I also killed a tool bit cutting stainless. I was using type 303 which is the easiest to machine. I found that the reason was that I was cuttng way to fast. There is a nice calculator at Little Machine Shop (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php)

First you choose if you are turning, milling or drilling, Then select the material you are cutting and then plug in the diameter of the tool or work. I had no problem after that.

The reaon I asked about how to milll on a rotary table I needed to turn down 1080 steel stock that was 3" diam x 1" long to 1.375 dia x 3/4" long. I had no problem facing it off and adding a 6 hole bolt pattern in it. Then I mounted it to the rotary table with the axis of the part horozontal. I used a 1/4" carbide cutter and took .010" off per pass. I moved the cutter in the x directiion and at the same time rotated the table 6 x as it moved so I would get a good overlap. It worked but there was a lot of chattering. This could be due the backlash in my old rotary table.


Lou

"Trying to turn in a rotary table using an endmill is neve going to produce a reasonable result."

But you can mill with a rotary table right?

I thought that was the whole point.

........Y is a bit more critical, as the travel is much less. From spec it is 160 mm on a regular X3 manual mill. If it is still 160 mm on the cnced mill, I purchase the mechanical kit from syil really quickly. Otherwise, I will have to ask them if it is possible to get a slightly longer Y ball screw.
This is my concern. I have a super X3 and the stock travel on my "Y" is actually 145mm.
Syil are quoting 120mm because of the double nuts. They said it could be 160mm if you remove one nut???
Looking at all the photos I can find of their setup and looking at my machine it would seem that making the "Y"screw 40mm
longer would not be that much of a big deal.

If anyone cares as much as I do and wants to discuss it then maybe a new thread is in order. :)

Greolt

I know I was using the SX3 travels, on SEIG's site. I really hope I don't lose that. I'll have to ask Syil for a special order if that's the case. I need that travel.

Hi Ronny:

No problem. I will post a drawing package. All the parts can be gotten from home depot except for the clear PETG plastic sheets. I ordered that from McMaster. The base and the top are finished. Attached are some photos of the base. It is made from 1/8" ply wood with 1x4 frame and 3 layers of 3/4" ply for the mill support. I fiberglassed with one layer of 6 oz cloth and epoxy resin and and then panted it with marine polyurethane paint.

By the way I got the Mill down in my work shop. It took four guys and a heavy duty hand truck. With the table and the monitor tray gismo removed it fit on a hand truck very nice. Then it was one step at a time to get it to the basement. I ordered a folding 1 ton shop crane (engine hoist) from harbor freight. With this I can easily move it around by my self if I have to get at the electronics in the rear. You can see it here Shop Crane (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93840)

Lou


Hi Lou,

Thanks for the picture...

Your Stearman is absolutly superb... I really love this big bird ;) If only I have more time :rolleyes:


If I know before that they have a tailstock wih live center I would have order it.... But not to try to use the mill as a lathe, it will give very poor result... But to support longer part or jig use with the rotary for milling operaton.

CrazyRonny

This is my concern. I have a super X3 and the stock travel on my "Y" is actually 145mm.
Syil are quoting 120mm because of the double nuts. They said it could be 160mm if you remove one nut???
Looking at all the photos I can find of their setup and looking at my machine it would seem that making the "Y"screw 40mm
longer would not be that much of a big deal.

If anyone cares as much as I do and wants to discuss it then maybe a new thread is in order. :)

Greolt
I have reposted this on a new thread if any one is interested in this question
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=176725#post176725

Has anyone heard from Syil recently?
I place my order (deposit) with them and wanted to add stuff to my order.
However, they have not answered any of my email sent since last week.
Anybody else out there ordering these SX3 CNC?

Has anyone heard from Syil recently?
I place my order (deposit) with them and wanted to add stuff to my order.
However, they have not answered any of my email sent since last week.
Anybody else out there ordering these SX3 CNC?


Left 3 emails in last 4 days now and not a single response. And this is for new order, quote, etc... I might be going the other way for this.

Has anyone try to get with him through MSN? He's usually on late at night. I'll keep an eye tonight.

I got an e-mail last night, reguarding my request for longer Y travel. I'll probably e-mail him again tonight with more info.

I have been getting good email response.
They will add 40mm to Y axis screw no problem. At my request.

"I have been getting good email response.
They will add 40mm to Y axis screw no problem. At my request."

I don't know if I will need it, but I would have done that if I'ld have known.

They should really work up an options worksheet to help people finalize an order.

the language barrier probably plays a MAJOR roll in the lack of communication. that is why i'm just going to wait for lou's and ronny's reviews. then i'll start farting around with getting serious.

Haha... finally got communication channel going and so far it has been satisfactory. I don't think they have proper infrastructure on how orders are handled (meaning there are some loop holes that can happen in comunication). Typical of start up business which mine is too.. (sometimes, I let go of e-mail that need attention for 1-2 days till he reminds me and I find that I didn't respond back... which I am shameful of...)

i understand everybody focus us,but resently,we are very very busy for orders.and also in touch some distributor in US,becuase in future we will use US retailer to instead our international ordering.it is easy and faster delivery ,also payment conveniently for every US clients.

if any friend email us that we didin`t reply in time,please forgive us.also if any one need procedure pic,please email to me.and i will sent to you.
:banana:
Sales of Syil.
www.syil.cn

syil has contacted me frequently through email. :cheers: but in the end, after lou and ronny's reviews, i may just wait for the united states brokers to have the machine available. but it will probably cost just as much, if not more than just ordering direct from china. call me a wimp, but i'm afraid of all that importing business.

yes thats what saddens me as soon as it gets sold in the US the price will rise for sure quite a bit

yes,that is our problem right now,how personal clients reduce cost always is our headache.but don`t worry.them also will not increase too much.becuase our price right now every one konw it.

ok,any info just sent email to us.thanks for your consideration.
Sales of Syil.

Sorry it is taking so long to get up and running but let me explain what is going on.
My unit is safely down in my workshop sitting on the floor. I purchased a 1 ton shop crane from Harbor Freight that arrived last weekend. The boxes were poorly packed. It came with out the jack so a new one should arrive today. Hopefully it will have the jack in it. I will need it to lift the CNC mill up and put it in place on the coolant enclosure base. Since the electronics are all in the rear and inaccessible the shop crane will come in handy if I need to make some adjustments.

In order to move the unit downstairs to my workshop I removed the X,Y table from the base. I saw that the easiest way to do this was to take the ball bearing stop off the end ball screw and unthread the ball screw. The table came free nicely.

Caution! Do not do this! I spent all evening last night getting the balls back in the ball nuts. I used tweezers and grease. It is very difficult but not impossible. The way to do it is to remove the stepper motor and then the thrust bearings and motor mount. Leave the ball screw in place in the ball nuts and slide the table forward and out.

When I placed my order I asked if the controller supported a coolant pump and spindle so that they both could be turned on and off in G-Code. I got an answer that was positive but due to a miscommunications and the language difference it is not exactly what I expected. The controller pc board that is in the big electronics box does in fact support these features but it in not connected on my machine. I have been working on getting parts to do it my self. The coolant pump should be a simple matter. I purchased a solid state relay and ac outlet that I will install on the enclosure. Syil showed me how to connect it up. I must admit that are working very hard to help me. They promised to send me a PC Board that will not only turn the spindle on and off but also set the direction and RPM in G-Code. This board is currently being designed and should be ready in a few weeks. Thank you very much Syil.

I recommend ordering your unit so that it G-code can operate a coolant pump and at least be able to turn the spindle on and off. It is very usable with out these features but I would like it to stop moving and shut off the coolant when the operation is done so I can let it run on it’s own if necessary.

The backlash compensation on the y axis, that I had apart, is first rate. There is zero backlash and it looks like it will stay that way for a very long time. The mounting is extremely rugged. Syil used heavy steel blocks to attach the motors, ball screws, and ball nuts. There is a single optical sensor and flag under each axis. This will be used as the limit switch.

As soon as I get my coolant pump and spindle motor connected I should be up and running.


Lou

And with some help from Lou on making purchase decision, I have ordered mine with basically same option as lou with the few things he mentioned already requested for... :)
It is bit big of step for me on equipment cost but from what I can see, with amount of prototyping and possible small production I might run for few things... I think it will be worth spending money up front.
Thanks again Lou and maybe you can share your plan with me so I can get the table ready before the machine gets here? :)

"When I placed my order I asked if the controller supported a coolant pump and spindle so that they both could be turned on and off in G-Code. I got an answer that was positive but due to a miscommunications and the language difference it is not exactly what I expected. The controller pc board that is in the big electronics box does in fact support these features but it in not connected on my machine. I have been working on getting parts to do it my self. The coolant pump should be a simple matter. I purchased a solid state relay and ac outlet that I will install on the enclosure. Syil showed me how to connect it up. I must admit that are working very hard to help me. They promised to send me a PC Board that will not only turn the spindle on and off but also set the direction and RPM in G-Code. This board is currently being designed and should be ready in a few weeks. Thank you very much Syil."



That really sounds like how they should all run.


I ordered mine with coolant upgrade too. I hope they do mine that way.

Thanks for Mr lou report,and our PC board designer will coming to factroy at the day after tomorrow,then we will discuss with him how to control spindle by G-code.the board it is easy to design,but to connect SEIG mainboard need time,becuase Sieg never supply them SUPER X3 mainboard principle and instruction paper with them machines.of course they will not supply us,it is have pattern protection.so we need solve super x3 mainboard frist.
also we need think how to display RPM on the machine and MACH3 together..
but we will hurrp and solve this in few weeks.and will update it for our machine options in future.

Mr Lou is very kindness man, provide many suggestions on our workings,and post report today.also invite me try his SL55 in future when i come to NY,thank you again my friend.

Your sincerely

Xushuo.
Syil.

Hi Green:

I agree but I was ask anyway. It should be an inexpensive upgrade.

Lou

Thanks for Mr lou report,and our PC board designer will coming to factroy at the day after tomorrow,then we will discuss with him how to control spindle by G-code.the board it is easy to design,but to connect SEIG mainboard need time,becuase Sieg never supply them SUPER X3 mainboard principle and instruction paper with them machines.of course they will not supply us,it is have pattern protection.so we need solve super x3 mainboard frist.
also we need think how to display RPM on the machine and MACH3 together..
but we will hurrp and solve this in few weeks.and will update it for our machine options in future.

Mr Lou is very kindness man, provide many suggestions on our workings,and post report today.also invite me try his SL55 in future when i come to NY,thank you again my friend.

Your sincerely

Xushuo.
Syil.

Woot... will I be the first one to be guinea pig? :)

Oops maybe I should not have made that offer to Syil but I told him that any speeding tickets he gets are his ha ha.

I am very happy with my machine. The support from Syil is fantastic. If I had to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would not hesitate to order it. For the price and support it is a great value.

By the way I sold my old one on eBay on Monday for $2,475.00. The fellow that bought it is comming to pick it up tomorrow. It was an X1 CNC converted mill and I included the coolant enclosure that I made. eBay Link to old CNC Mill (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280006509963&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1)

Lou

Your old CNC mill is pretty slick.

I esspecially like the way you managed to optimize the space on the table with your 4th axis choice.

I originally was going to convert my X2 but saw some people on the internet that took up half the travel on the table with their fourth axis solution, and that turned me off on that.

I am not sure if I follow you exactly. The 4th axis is removable. You can have it as shown with the axis horizontal or on its side with the axis verticle. Most of the time it is on the shelf because it would limit the travel and always be in the way. I only had one ocastion to use it but I don't know what I would do with out it.

My point was that considering what my old one sold for and how much better the Syil mill is for only a little more I think it is a great value

Lou

I guess your fourth axis wasn't CNC operated?

My point was that I was comparing it to a machine I had seen http://www.kdntool.com/userfiles/pin_w4th_2.jpg

Notice how the 4th axis takes up half the table?

Hi Green:

That is a really impressive setup. My little rotary table started life as a manual rotary table that was designed to be positioned at a degree setting and locked down. It is motorized with a servo motor and encoder but there is no backlash compensation. If the endmill starts to chatter the table will rotate on its own due to the play in the gears. Even though it is very large it looks looks nice and ridged for precision work. Is it an X2 Mill?

Lou

I am very happy with my machine. The support from Syil is fantastic. If I had to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would not hesitate to order it. For the price and support it is a great value.
Hi Lou,

I'm in the process of quoting an SX3 from Syil.

I was wondering if you could tell me the working clearances for the SX3 CNC'ed by them. I live in an apartment and after I account for the space of an enclosure (lined with lead tiles and rubber) I have a bit less than 50 inches to fit the machine. Do I get full X-axis travel under those conditions? What are the minimal working clearances before I punch a hole in the enclosure, through a wall and into my neighbor's bathroom ;)

Also I noticed that Syil seems to put the electronics in a black box behind the column. How much further from the back wall will the machine have to be because of that box and do you think that it can be easily moved to the left side of the column?

Thanks!... do you have some pics of goodies you done with the mill? :)

i think your still can change position of x3 after your receive it in your room.then will be done.change machines on 45 degree.i never see your room,so i just guess is it ok?

to confrim the X axis in full length or not,it is depend on your want to how use this machines,but...becarefully your neighbor's bathrooms.hehe.

the controller behind on the machines which we use a box like column,it is easy to install or get out from X3 too.
i will show your the minimum working clearances in this afternoon.
thank you.

Seems everything is made in china these days. Mabey you can use this to make products and compete against the chinese! that would be great. I have met two people so far that lost there jobs due to chinese compitition. To bad I bet thay loved there jobs.

BTW, I am learning C++ slowly but wonder if that is the best route to make software to control stepper motors? would C or visualbasic.net work better?

this X3 just hobby tools.to make products compete chinese i think it is not strong enough,at least need use machine center,hehe.
i`m not quite konw the software design,but i hope your can have your own contorller asap and successfully....

i think your still can change position of x3 after your receive it in your room.then will be done.change machines on 45 degree.i never see your room,so i just guess is it ok?

to confrim the X axis in full length or not,it is depend on your want to how use this machines,but...becarefully your neighbor's bathrooms.hehe.

the controller behind on the machines which we use a box like column,it is easy to install or get out from X3 too.
i will show your the minimum working clearances in this afternoon.
thank you.
Hello Syil,

It is good to hear from you again :)

I can not do 45 degrees. The biggest enclosure space I can dedicate to the machine is 50x30 inches -- and I would love to get to 50x25 somehow.

The machine also needs to go through a door that is 26 inches wide so I will need to remove the table. I'll try not to drop the balls (pardon the pun) ;)

Since you asked, the first project I plan to tackle with the mill is to make a 16-carrier wire braider. Some of the parts would be large... so the bigger the travel the less need I'll have to break parts into multiple pieces. Will probably be mostly carbon steel 1008. It will be a very nice project because although I have used lathes and programmed CNC punch machines some 15 years ago I never used a mill.

Hi Ed:

To answer your question the electronics enclosure does attach to the rear of the column and it is 4.00" deep. I am not finished with the drawings for the full enclosure because I need to mount my mill in the base to make the shield that will attach to the X, Y table. I have finished the base drawings and that will show you the size that it will take up. The drawings are in SolidWorks but I also have jpg's and photos of them so you can get the dimensions. They are in a zip file at: Enclosure Base Drawings (http://liarsrc.com/images/cnc-mill/encosure-base.zip)

I took the maximum that the table could possibly travel and then added 1" clearance all the way around. I finished my modifications and I plan to run it for the first time tomorrow. The X and Y travel should have slightly less travel than I allowed for. I will try to take some photos of the upgrade I did soon.

Rhinoman . . . check our Mach3. It was done in visual basic. The reason it is made in China is because they are willing to make it for a lot less than it is possible in the US. Our labor costs would make this machine cost $20,000 and no one would buy it.

Lou

Very nice Lou. Thanks!

According to your drawings (48" x 38" for the base sheet) I'm good with the X clearance, but very short on the Y. I'm going to have to think of something...

Dear Ed,
check your emails,i have been give your correct answer.
Syil.

Syil, got it. Thanks!

I'll put be putting an email together later tonight with a few questions.

Meanwhile,

Here is an idea for a future CNC upgrade kit... when your engineers are bored and unmotivated you can suggest the following to them: Integrate a small PC to feed the g-code execution to the controllers and hook it up with an operator panel having jog dials to slow down the g-code execution, stop and resume execution of the g-code (in my very limited experience I used this in punching machines, not sure how feasible it would be in a mill if the tool is still spinning and in contact with the piece -- perhaps just control feed and rely on operator discretion not mess up the piece/tool). In addition to that, integrate DRO's for the 3/4 axis in this operator panel/PC together with jog dials for each axis plus the spindle. The ability to enter g-code directly and/or execute it line by line would be sweet, but it may be to much. If you come up with that kit/product you could market that not only for mills, but lathes, routers, and pretty much any CNC conversion, not only Syil's. :)

Hi Ed:

You can do similar things in Mach3. A joy stick can be connected to jog and a rotary dial can also be used to position each axis. Manual g-code can be entered and executed, To slow down g-code execution, that will be a neat trick. It may be possible to do one line at a time but what I think you are asking is to also slow down the feed rate.

What I found you can do is to click on the pause button when things do not look correct and that will stop the g-code with out loosing position. You can then click stop and then resume from a different line.

Lou

Lou,

Are you closer to being up and running and what about crazyronny? Quick question, what kind of value did you have for your backlash compensation with MACH3?

Look forward to seeing your projects,

Ron

To slow down g-code execution, that will be a neat trick. It may be possible to do one line at a time but what I think you are asking is to also slow down the feed rate.
Yeah, I'm not sure how this is done for mills, but in the ol'days on punching machines it was used to debug code, run code for the first time, see if you are going to hit a clamp or something as you traverse, and to slow down as parts get detached and removed from below (if it fails you have time to stop execution before the detached piece jams the machine). I'm not sure how quickly the SX3 will traverse so perhaps we do not need to slow it down :D

Hi Ron:

Actually it is all finished. The only thing left is to hoist it on the enclosure base. I am having a problem with a harbor freight shop crane I bought to help lift it. They left out the hydraulic jack. This morning I connected up my computer, loaded a Mach3 profile that Syil emailed me and powered it up while it was on my shop floor. I noticed that only the X axis moved in one direction. Left only. I had almost every wire disconnected so I carefully went over everything to see what was wrong. After a few hours searching I discovered that my parallel printer cable (that was not supplied with the mill) was not fully populated. The cable needed is a 25 pin D shell cable with male connectors on both ends with all wires connected. The one I had must have been for an old serial connection. In serial communication only a few of the connections are needed. In fact newer serial connections are usually only 9 pins. After checking I was able to confirm that many of the pins were not connected.

I will try again tomorrow. I can tell you that the movement I did see was silky smooth. By the way the backlash is set for zero for all three axis.

Lou

Hi Ed:

In most tool path programs like Mastercam have a really good simulation utility. You can see just what path the endmill will take and watch material being removed. You can even tell it were your fixtures are so that it will avoid them. You can speed it up so an hour job only takes a few minutes.

I did find a bug in Mach2 where it was doing a hole pattern. I had two holes at different depths so I had to set up a separate operation for each. The g-code correctly retracted the tool before moving to the next position. However, I watched as the table moved sideways as the bit was still at the bottom of the first hole. It broke the drill in an instant. In this case the simulator didn't help because it was instructing Mach2 to do the correct path. Art at artsoft admitted that it was a problem he would look into (It is probably fixed in Mach3). Now I do a dry run with no tool bit when I am drilling hole patterns.

Other then that the simulators works very well.

Lou

Thanks Lou. I'll need some tutelage once I receive mine. :)

What packages are you using for the mill... (end to end) ?

Hi Ed:

Do you mean the software when you mention packagages? If so I use Solidworks for designing parts in 3D and then I import the solidworks file to MasterCamX to create the tool path and make a G-Code file. Then I have been using Mach2 to actually operate the mill from the G-Code. With the new Syil Mill I will be using Mach3. It is just a hobby for me but I find it very challenging and a lot of fun.

Lou

That was just the answer to my question, thanks Lou.

We talk with Artsoft before,but they only sell ID cord for software,and do not provide the program,need we download by ourself and record to DVD.
also we need packing them too.but in future we will do thisno matter how trouble..

It is just a hobby for me but I find it very challenging and a lot of fun.
I just saw "Flight of the Stearman" and you landing gear pics, no wonder you find it challenging :rolleyes:

We talk with Artsoft before,but they only sell ID cord for software,and do not provide the program,need we download by ourself and record to DVD. also we need packing them too.but in future we will do thisno matter how trouble..
We are going for real plug and play ah? Pretty soon you will be coming up with a touch screen :cool:

I am happy to report that all axis are working with the new parallel port cable.
I needed to make the adjustments to Mach3 to have my machine move and display in inches. It was originally set for metric. I used a dial indicator to determine exactly how many steps there was in an inch. Then I used it to see what backlash there was and compensated for it in Mach3.

Some specs are as follows

Backlash X=0.0011, Y=0.0016, Z=0.0033
Travel Max X = 14.4", Y=4.5" Z=9.1"
Max reliable High Speed Jog. X=100 ipm, Y=100 ipm, Z=65 ipm

This is very fast. At the above feed rates the motors get really hot so I may be exceeding max recommended rates. I have to ask Syil about this.

I still need to experiment with the cutting feed rate to see what the max reliable speed is when it is doing quick back and forth movements like running the skull and cross bones of the Mach3 example. This appears to be a little less then 30 ipm but by changing the acceleration rate I may be able to tweak this.

It is actually easier to fly a real plane then the models. It it great fun but it takes some practice to fly from the ground and not get disoriented. The Stearman is a very easy to fly plane. Some of my other ones can do well over a 100 mph.

Lou

Clients satisfaction is our success~~~

today we also sent conversion kits and a complete machine to our clients.(i keep them name)
and hope other clients please be patience,we are in full working...Sieg also full working too..we will do our best~

Lou,
The steppers should not be getting extremely hot no matter what speed you are running. In all actuality, the faster a stepper is turning, the less current it draws due to the decreased time the voltage is applied to the coils. Steppers draw the most current at rest. You may want to ask Syil how to double check the current limit settings on the drivers incase they are set too high. That would be the first cause of an extremely hot motor. There should be a reference voltage point somewhere on the driver board to set the phase current limit.

Also check the status of the idle current setting. The Syil drivers can be set to cut the phase current in half when an axis is idle for more than .3 seconds.

Ken

Hi Ken:

That is a good point. I was seeing how fast I could go and then later touched the stepper. I assumed it was from going too fast but ,as you point out, it is the idle current that is making it warm. As I am new to stepper motors I am not sure how hot is is normal. My best guess, from working with computer heatsinks, is that it is about 40 to 45 deg c.

Lou

Lou,
I am looking at Automation Direct's sure step documentation and it states "operating temperature range=-20 degreesC to 50 degreesC (motor case temperature should be kept below 100 degreesC(212 degreesF))"

The insulation class is rated="130 degreesC Class B"

A while back I was using steppers from Mycom/Nyden and they ran hot as hell no matter what I did. I contacted the company and they said it was "normal". Needless to say I do not use that brand any longer.

Pacific Scientific's stepselect document states: "operating temperature=-20 C to 40 C" with no mention of case temperature. It also states:"Class B 130 C insulation rating"

Ken

Hi Ken:

At idle they are nice and cool. They do heat up when moving though so some current limiting is in effect at idle. I maybe doing something that is unusual and that is to run the A axis nearly continuously at the higest speed. I am doing a G0 A10000 and then A0 over and over again. After about 10 min I measure the temp at 130 deg f or 54.4 c. I turned it off at that point because it did not appear to stabilize. I remembered I had an inferred thermal probe that I am now using in place of my hand.

Lou

Lou,
What you descibe leads me to believe that either A) the running current is set too high or B)the steppers Syil chose just run hot.

I will be better informed once I receive those five kits pictured in Syils last post! It will be a while before that happens though.

Maybe once Syil logs in they can advise as to setting the running current for the different steppers on the machine. The .pdf for thier drivers does not specify any more info than turning the potentiometer CW decreases setting and CCW increases it.

Ken

Lou,

Just another data point, on a cnc 9 X 20 lathe using Keling steppers one 282 in/oz and the other 425 both NEMA 23 frame size, and a hobbycnc unipolar driver card. My units also ran hot for the first week or so. Then for no apparent reason, much cooler. Since then I have sold the lathe, it is still doing fine. Side note, Hobbiecnc have implimented in it's design a new idle function to reduce the current during inactivity.

Like I say, just another data point. Also because of the smaller physical size of the NEMA 23 (when compaired to a NEMA 34), it will have less area to disapate heat.

Ron

Not sure if it has been said before, but the following options are now standard on the CNC Syil conversion of the SX3:

* Y axis ballscrew 40mm longer to get the full 160mm Y axis travel
* Gas spring on the Z axis

Lou:

How do you like your collet and chuck set?

What is the flow on your coolant? Is it a trickle, a firehose? I like lots of splashing... looks cool :) Do you think the stepper enclosures can take it?

Ed

Is it possible to attach heatsink to the nema motor with decent effect? :) Maybe first job is to make aluminum heatsink for it? :P
If temperature is major issue, I guess I could make small AC unit to cope with heat inside that sits at bottom of machine to keep inside air under control... I do have more than enough parts and skill to make some... :)

PS) I really am excited to see how mine turns out to be. (yes I did place order a little while ago :P)

Stepper motors can get up to 200 degrees, its not uncommon. Probably not necessary to make heatsinks for it, make them for your drivers :).

No one seems to be mentioning it here but steppers usually run hot.
The case temperature of 100 deg C some one mentioned earlier should give a clue. This is one thing that is always coming up with new stepper users, they think thier steppers are running to hot.

But steppers often run to hot to hold your hand on and it is quite normal. Ane there is no real reason to be overly concerned about it. If you cut the current down ti where they don't run hot you will get no where near thier rated torque in most cases.

Garry

Backlash X=0.0011, Y=0.0016, Z=0.0033
Lou:

Any numbers for the rotary table?

Does the rotary table have a manual lock?

No one seems to be mentioning it here but steppers usually run hot.Garry

Yep, steppers can run hot. Thats why you will see some heavy fins on some. Such as this one. Not a bench top mill but it shows the amount of cooling fin area Bridgeport thought was necessary. The fins almost double the diameter of the motor. JRouche
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/CNC%20Zone/stepper.jpg

I have been real busy working on the mill. The Mach3 profile that I received from Syil needed a bit of work. I have mine set up in inches. Tomorrow I will post it if anyone wants to start off with it. It should save a lot of time. I set it up to run in the correct direction, setup to properly home, with soft limits so it will not accidentally hit the end stops.

Here is what I did to the mill (see attached photos)

1. I was able to add almost an inch to the X travel by cutting away the X axis motor cover. I also notched out for the wires so it could b easily removed with out unthreading it from the electronics box. The originally black paint quality was not the best so I sanded then down and got some matching red Rustoleum from Home Depot. Total X travel is now 15.33.

2. It is necessary to add a cable tie down to the Y axis sensor. It could get caught on the ways and pull out the solder joint.

3. Looking in the electronics box while it is laying down, I added a solid state relay and the white outlet to turn on the coolant pump via g-code. The next photo is a better shot of the outlet on the electronics enclosure. Sorry about it being sideways.

4. The next photo shows the connector I added for the rotary table. I wanted to be able to remove it when it is not in use.

I need to adjust the current in the stepper motors. The rotary table will go up to 132 deg f if left at idle. The X and Y that I can measure is 95 and 110 deg f. I will ask Syil how to properly set it.

Ed. I don't see a manual lock for the rotary table but it looks very robust with not backlash that I can detect. The chuck comes with an extra set of jaws to handle large diameter parts. The Collet set is very nice but it is metric and I will probably want to get a few inch size collets for my existing tools. Still trying to find out what type of collets will fit it.

The extra 40 mm on the Y travel would be nice but I think that is done at the expense of backlash. On mine a pair of ball nuts are used. I recalibrated mine after taking it apart to repair the sennsor and the Y travel has only .0007" backlash. If it still has double ball nuts then it is a nice feature.

Lou

Here is a link to my Mach3 profile for the Syil Super X3 CNC Mill: My CNC Profile (http://liarsrc.com/images/cnc-mill/My-CNC-Mill.zip)

It is set up in inches.

Lou

Lou,

Thanks for the data points

Some specs are as follows

Backlash X=0.0011, Y=0.0016, Z=0.0033
Travel Max X = 14.4", Y=4.5" Z=9.1"
Max reliable High Speed Jog. X=100 ipm, Y=100 ipm, Z=65 ipm

Those are impressive numbers!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to see more of your work?

Did crazyronny get his unit and is he up and running?

Ron

Hi everybody,

There is a lot of activity here since my last post... I'm back from a small vacation ;)

My mill arrive at the port last wednesday, I should be able to pick it up this week if all the custom paperwork is done on time and after that only I will now the import cost...

Thanks Lou for all the information that you give us, it will be really helpfull. Iwill have to play with G codes again soon :)

CrazyRonny

So, now the bank swift transfer is done, and I wait for Syil to send me the mechanical kit, with the extended Y ballscrew, to accomodate the double nut@160mm travel.

will keep you posted once I get the box. will take a couple of weeks. this gives me time to prepare the controllers / PSU and PC to run Mach3. :)

Thanks for your Lou very good advise regard to increse working length,also,for Ob7 we will hurrp up your order
we notice some one focus us steper motor heat.yes it is high temp,but we ask step motor factroy,then reply us it is normal temp.in fact we have a own x3 cnc also working on this kind temp for steper motor.
We are very busy those day,and any quesitons please sent email to us,thank you.

Syil

Syil;
Can you post a complete list of options currently available from you for the CNC X3?

A number of interesting options have been mentioned by members the group, but it would be super nice to have a complete list of current options posted in the group.
I and others would not want to miss the opportunity to spend more money with you. :cheers:

Jay

we will have some new products soonly,and will porst some pic of our factroy,staff,office.too.then make a orignal list of SIEG parts,and our options post in a new thread.hehe.

I pick up the mill at the port warehouse last wednesday... So it is finally in my garage, but I don't have much time to play with it, I'm to busy right now and I don't know how much time the mill will have to sit on the garage floor :( ...


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/SyiL_MyX3_home01.jpg


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/CrazyRonny/Syil_SuperX3/SyiL_MyX3_home02.jpg


For the cost of shipping and import.
Shipping was $100 USD that was bill on my invoice by SyiL
And I have to pay about $500 CDN for broker fee and GST when I pick up the mill

CrazyRonny :cheers:

hey what was the size of the crating i am wondering if it will fit in the back of my mom mazda mpv

also if anyone as or could make a video of its converted syil available it would be cool to see it working on something

very high duty...any questions let me konw.

Syil.

Oooh, that's what I was waiting on, the import fees. Did you import it as a cnc machine or just machinery? I thought I read somewhere that the fees for CNC equipment was abit higher than the same machine as a non-cnc. JRouche

we export and mention our itmes just MILL MACHINES.without any CNC matter,also export more easy to import.

Yoo-hoo!

I ordered my SyiL today :)

Here is my configuration: :cool:
* CNC converted Sieg Super X3 (R8 spindle)
* G-code controlled Coolant System
* G-code controlled 3500 rpm spindle mod
* 4th axis CNC conversion with 3 jaw chuck
* Additional 4th axis table with 4 jaw chuck (swappable with the 3 jaw one)
* Tail stock with live center

This is now standard:
* Y axis ballscrew 40mm longer to get the full 160mm Y axis travel
* Gas spring on Z axis

And I got a couple of accessories too:
* Vise 120mm
* Chuck and Collet set (inch units)
* Clampling Kit (inch units)

:)

Can anybody confirm, will SyiL drivers run with EMC2 (http://www.linuxcnc.org/)?

Regards,
Ints

Can anybody confirm, will SyiL drivers run with EMC2 (http://www.linuxcnc.org/)?

Regards,
Ints

Why would drivers care about the software?

All they see is step and direction....

Am I missimg something?
Garry

Does it mean, whatever way SyiL has connected pin-s into the parallel port, I can configure whatever parallel port compatible control sw accordingly and I should not expect any problems?

Ok, in this case: what would be the needed setup to configure EMC2 to work with Syil boards? Is it possible to read it out from MACH3 settings somebody probably has already?

Regards,
Ints

I'ld actually like to know when the Syil X2 kit is comming out.

this project was something I didn't want to attempt but the mini mill I would play with myself.

the lathe and x2,x1,and sieg new machines will be after us converted in next 1~2 months,we will update it soonly and start quote price,also we will update some pic of us.our working,staff and factroy review.

Sorry those day we are very very busy ,any questions just sent email to us.thank you
Syil.cn

the lathe and x2,x1,and sieg new machines will be after us converted in next 1~2 months,we will update it soonly and start quote price,also we will update some pic of us.our working,staff and factroy review.

Sorry those day we are very very busy ,any questions just sent email to us.thank you
Syil.cn
Yeah!!! We need a nice, affordable *cough* *cough* :D C6B conversion! g-code speed control, g-code coolant, and all :cool:

:cheers:

"Yeah!!! We need a nice, affordable *cough* *cough* C6B conversion! g-code speed control, g-code coolant, and all "


What would be really sweet is to somehow rig a stepper to a rotary table and make a kit to turn a C6 into an 8-tool CNC AUTOMATIC TOOL CHANGER!!!!! :bat:

WOOHOOO! YEAH!

No, what we really need is a small mill like this with a AUTOMATIC TOOL CHANGER :eek:

I think it would be very difficult for someone to come up with an affordable tool changer. The cheapest approach is probably an adaptation of this http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/default.htm with a power drawbar and perhaps adding a tool system like the Tormach http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS.html. It would probably work just with air, no new electric motors/drivers needed. By the time you are done it would probably cost around $1000 plus the Tormach tool system.

Not sure how many people would be willing to spend over $500 on a tool changer.

OTOH g-code coolant and g-code speed are $50~ish options.

EDIT: Well... a kit for a power drawbar using an electric impact wrench would meet you halfway and could perhaps be made available at around $120-150 with the wrench.

.

For an 8 tool changer on a decent size lathe (like a 20") I would spend $2000.

It would be great to get it for less, but in the absence of that, it's easilly worth that. $3000 is a common market value, and the you have to generally buy a high-end machine like a Waebco for $15000 to put it on.

I would put all indexable tooling in the changer, and then I would never need to set up the machine (inside turn, inside thead, inside thread relief cutter, center drill, outside turning, outside thread, parting tool, and outside thread relief cutters.

the only bit to change would be the drill it, the rest would just be carbide inserts.

$2000 is too rich for me. Although I would probably be interested in an indexable changer for the C6B as you described, I'm not really sure how much I would be willing to spend -- $800 would be okay, $1000 would already be too much for me. Not that it is not worth it, just that I do not see myself using it as often as you probably would.

Hi Everyone:

I am very close to being finished with my installation. Attached are photos of the enclosure top with the splash guard. I made posts from 3/4" aluminum round stock and used 1/4" PETG for a splash guard. It is very similar to Plexiglas but not as expensive. I used MEK to bond the edges. If you have the equipment you can bend the corners with heat. The enclosure skins are also made from PETG. I used 1/8" riveted to 3/4" aluminum angle stock x 1/8" thick from Home Depot. I used 1/8" aluminum pop rivets. The top section is 40" high and skins extend 1" on the bottom so that they fit inside the base. The top rail in the front is removable (with screws) so that I can use my shop crane (engine hoist) to put the mill in place and take it out if necessary. I still need to make a screen for my coolant drain, purchase coolant nozzles and make a block mount for them on the spindle.

I need to remove the handles from the spindle so that it does not interfere with the splash guard. Each of the 3 handles unscrews. The green buttons on the end of the handles are used for tapping. When in tapping mode and you push any one of the green buttons and the spindle will reverse direction.

The only thing I made other then the posts and small T-nuts were a bunch of name tags that I volunteered to make for my Model Airplane club. Attached is mine. I did it in CorelDraw and saved it as an AutoCAD DWG file. I used MasterCamX read it in and I was able to make a tool path for a .020 dia engraving end mill. Then I used Mach3 to cut it out. The engraving is only .005 deep.

I needed to adjust the current for the stepper motors to 2.2 amps on each one and set a switch so that when idle the current goes to 1/2. Now they are much cooler. New CNC Mills may come with cable tie-downs if not it is a must to add cable ties to the sensor cables otherwise they will get snagged on the X-Y table.

Lou

Lou,

is it easy to solvent weld your petg with MEK? Never tried it.

Looks great, good job!!!!!!!!

Ron

Hi Ron:

The only thing to make sure is that you have a good fit between mating parts. Then use an applicator or take a very small tube (I had one with an ID of 1/16"). Dunk it in the MEK and put your finger on the other end of the tube. Then let it wick in the joint. Capillary action lets it run in-between the parts and you have a crystal clear joint. The MEK evaporates in minutes and it is very strong.

Lou

Very nice indeed Lou.

It looks so... clean :lol:

:)

My hat is off to ya, that was well worth the wait Lou, looks sweeeet!

Mr Lou was a prefessonal CNC player which we never see before.he provide us many good advise to update our X3 conversion job.

Sure,i`d like to meet him in presonal.....
those day we are move new place from 21th,a new big factroy,then we will show our new items and machines to everyone.

thank your for support,thank for Lou advise too.hehe
Syil.

Wow Lou!!! You know I am copying that one :)
Won't mind bit of update Syil... Shoot me an e-mail when you get a chance.

Hi Jin:

Thank you. I didn't give dimensions for the top part of the enclosure but it is straight forward and you may want to add your own touch to it. The plastic sheets just needs to fit inside the base with the aluminum angles on top of the side rails. It actually does not need to be as tall as I made it. My thought here was that I could put a cover on it when I am doing a lot of sanding in the workshop and keep it somewhat clean.

I got the materials from McMaster and Home Depot. If anyone would like dimensional drawings it would be no problem to provide them.

Did you get a ship date for yours yet?

Lou

Hi Jin:

Thank you. I didn't give dimensions for the top part of the enclosure but it is straight forward and you may want to add your own touch to it. The plastic sheets just needs to fit inside the base with the aluminum angles on top of the side rails. It actually does not need to be as tall as I made it. My thought here was that I could put a cover on it when I am doing a lot of sanding in the workshop and keep it somewhat clean.

I got the materials from McMaster and Home Depot. If anyone would like dimensional drawings it would be no problem to provide them.

Did you get a ship date for yours yet?

Lou

Not yet not yet. Things turns out slow on their end on getting Sieg machine it seems and I was busy moving last 4-5 days to catch back with them. (no internet on new place yet)... I didn't know I had so much stuff to move with all my tools, gears, etc... half the move actually was my workshop and office stuff.... -_-. I can't wait to get the machine in so I can do some prototyping and move to the next level :)

Jin,your machines will be arrive from sieg to us at 18th,then we will arrange the shipment in faster,becuase our coverted only need 2 days.

Hi Lou,

Really nice set up that you have made, I wish mine look like that but after two weeks since I have receive it, it is still on the same spot on my garage floor.... I have no time to work on it, bad timing :(

I'll send you a PM

CrazyRonny

LouCetrangelo or CrazyRonny

Could you do me a favour and take a photo of the X axis motor mounting bracket without the red cover on.

I am sure Syil have given me the wrong bracket. It is not even close to fitting.

Thanks, Greolt

LouCetrangelo or CrazyRonny

Could you do me a favour and take a photo of the X axis motor mounting bracket without the red cover on.

I am sure Syil have given me the wrong bracket. It is not even close to fitting.

Thanks, Greolt

Hi Greolt:

Sure no problem. Attached are three photos of the X axis showing the mounting frame under the cover. There are a few parts that are all screwed together

Lou

Greolt,

Looks like you have most of the pieces... I suppose the biggest challenge will be to mill out part of the base to fit in the motor for the Z-axis. I would be a bit overwhelmed as I do not have a second mill :o

Lou,

This may be a stupid question... but... have you thought about a small seal at the top of the motor enclosure where it meets the cover (next to the table)? Have you run the coolant yet?

PS: I'm told that Syil will receive my mill from Sieg on the 20th-22nd :D

:)

Sure no problem. Attached are three photos of the X axis showing the mounting frame under the cover.
Thanks very much for that Lou. :cheers:

I have figured it out, the bracket they sent me is machined back to front :nono:

Mr Greolt
i have been reply your about the instruction paper,we are full time for translate english for you,don`t worry,this week we will sent to you by pic...

by the way,we will be test the spindle G-cord control at 21th~22th,the control board have been arrive,then if working well,we will post the info on the web and quote the price.
also i will sent the spindle control board for Mr Lou frist,becuase he was soooooo professional on CNC,and have been become our adviser.

Syil.

The only thing I made other then the posts and small T-nuts were a bunch of name tags that I volunteered to make for my Model Airplane club. Attached is mine. I did it in CorelDraw and saved it as an AutoCAD DWG file. I used MasterCamX read it in and I was able to make a tool path for a .020 dia engraving end mill. Then I used Mach3 to cut it out. The engraving is only .005 deep.
Lou

Lou, it's been very nice and informative to read your posts, thanks for sharing.

Regarding your name tag, it seems to give some hints of backlash in your Y axis, you might want to adjust your preload.

I may be wrong though.

Hi robteb:

You are very observant! Actually to be fair I made that name tag on my old CNC Mill which was an X1 with acme screws. The new ones that I made came out very good. The tricky part is trying to hold it down. I am thinking of making a small vacuum table for the nametags. I will be able to do the perimeter operation and the engraving in one setup. Right now there is a magnet on the back to hold it on your shirt and I am using that to hold in in a piece of plywood with masking tape on the edges.

Lou

Greolt,

Looks like you have most of the pieces... I suppose the biggest challenge will be to mill out part of the base to fit in the motor for the Z-axis. I would be a bit overwhelmed as I do not have a second mill :o

Lou,

This may be a stupid question... but... have you thought about a small seal at the top of the motor enclosure where it meets the cover (next to the table)? Have you run the coolant yet?

PS: I'm told that Syil will receive my mill from Sieg on the 20th-22nd :D

:)

Hi Ed:

I just ordered a 1/4" Loc-Line coolant manifold with a magnetic base. This will normally mount on the spindle but when turning parts I can mount it on the table so that it stays with the tool. The spray pattern of coolant is out from the tool bit or stock if used as a lathe. I may want to put some silicone sealant under the cover mounting surface so it does not seep back to the motor. Other then that I don't think the motors can get splashed with the covers on.

Lou

Hmmm guys... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92409
Wonder if it could work as good start for Mill bench. I probably will have to make somewhat flat piece there for top and mount it up some how... Just pondering.

If you want casters I would go with all steel casters, not rubber. I've had bad experiences with some HF rubber casters where either the center broke or the rubber detached from the wheel core. Cant' really tell from the pic what is the quality of the casters. As you struggle to move something heavy back and forth there will be a lot of stress sideways on the wheels. Also bigger wheels are easier to turn under heavy load.

It does not look like the bench has any crossing reinforcements. I suppose if you just put the mill on top it will hold as long as you do not start moving it around too much. If things get loose you could always weld or screw 3 metal plates (on both sides and on the back)... though it would not be tear down anymore.

I could be wrong, but I do not think this bench is worth anywhere near $399.99

Hi Jin:

I think it may be stong enough since it is designed to hold transmissions. They can be a few hundred pounds although the Mill is probably heavier. The main problem I see is that it is way to small. My base is 48 x 40 and it is only about an inch bigger then the travel of the table. It might be a good base for a small lathe, although they have a nice one that is less expensive.

Lou

Aye... was just pondering... I saw something in Ikea yesterday... would have picked it up if i had space in the minivan... solid wood of 2" thickness all around with leg being either 2x4 or 4x4... with bunch of support and good sizes... all for $150... (I think I might end up spending more on wood of that grade for making such lol). It was one of their as is sale section and i jumped on top... bounced around to no effect on it... (quickly reprimended by IKEA worker...). Too bad that IKEA store is about 80 miles from my home and probably won't fit in minivan even if it was completely empty...
Oh well... I think I will just make what you have shown me Lou. Find decent wood working bench or make one myself and place it :) Now, I would like caster as my new place is already packed up with much tools, etc and I only have one nice cove kind of place where it can go in. Except, there is doors for my waterheater, etc next to it which might be problematic if I have to replace those things. Those magic move thing with some kind of anchoring on side would work better or just good old caster you think? :)

Hi Jin:

I made mine out of 2 x 6 lumber. It wasn't cheap but you can drive a truck on it. Attached is a sketch. The top sheet was 4 x 8 3/4" plywood with a formica like finish on it. I cut it lenghtwise and used the left over for a bottom shelf. I have the mill at one end and the computer at the other.

Lou

That looks good and strong Lou.

My sugestion though would be to add some bracing to the legs.

Sitting at my desk here I'm thinking that when printing on my small inkjet printer
the desk rocks slightly even though the print head only weighs a few ounces.

Just think how much more your mill table weighs and it changes direction.

Hi Greolt:

It is difficult to discribe just how ridgid it is. The legs are 5.50" wide and they are attached to the top and bottom frame that is the same size. It is glued and bolted together. There is so much surface area that a separate brase is not necessary. Here is a photo that I posted earler showing the bench with my mill on top.

Photo of Bench (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21087)

Lou

Yeah that looks a great setup Lou. Good job.

I bet you move it an inch away from the wall at the left to stop it going "bump bump" and leaving a mark in the plaster :p

I love what you have done with your splash tray.

Hi Greolt:

I beg your pardon! I don't have any problem with my plasterboard at all. Err. . .well I did but I added a nice thick piece of rubber between the table top and the wall and now it stopped making most of the banging noise. The big set of shelves on the right really do a lot to limit how far it will sway. I still haven't figured out what to do with the front to back movement. So far I have done a good job writing g-code with gentle starts and stops in the Y direction.

Hey by the way, were in Australia are you? My son moved to Brisbane last year and married an aussie girl.

Lou

I just started school, and began surfcam classes. The instructor mentioned that 3 axis surfcam is $18K and that made me think:

How the hell am I going to be able to afford software to get my machine milling 4-axis parts?

Anyone know what the most affordable solidworks/toolpath generating combination is that will allow me to draft and mill 4-axis parts?

Does the solidworks student edition offer unlimited part modeling?

I'ld like to stay under $500 for a software package.

Surfcam 2 Axis SE sells for $ 2495.00 plus 12% maintenance.

We offer educational discounts only via schools.
We can offer you a 20 % discount on the price of the products:
VisualMill BASIC, list price: $1000, discounted price: $800
VisualMill BASIC + 4th, list price: $2000, discounted price: $1600
VisualMill Pro, list price: $4000, discounted price: $3200

You can see the difference in functionality in the products at:
http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/Products/products.shtml

Those are some responses I got from a few vendors.

It's expensive but they do offer student discounts. Some at least. Bobcad will give you half off.

Take a look at onecnc. For 3 axis capability I was quoted for $1800 after 40% student discount. This is for thier mill advantage package. Good luck.

Does MACH 3 do 4-axis milling? It would seem like a potentially better deal at $159.

$3200 isn't the moon, but it may as well be when I'm having trouble putting together $2000 for a CNC lathe to complement my mill.

Mach 3 is controller software. You need software to generate toolpaths unless you can hand code really well. I know I can't.

Onecnc might be your best bet. I'm not sure how much more 4th axis is but they can help you if you give them a call.

Just discovered the Syil SX3 CNC today. Have read this entire thread with great interest. Need a reliable turnkey machine for production and can justify the cost of the Syil. However, it seems from Lou's posts that three separate software programs are req'd. We have TurboCad. Is this inexpensive program sufficient for our simple 3 axis parts ? What is the cost of the software that generates the tool path ? Is Mach 3 incl. with the SX3 ? Thanks to everyone for all the information, my kind of place.

Just discovered the Syil SX3 CNC today. Have read this entire thread with great interest. Need a reliable turnkey machine for production and can justify the cost of the Syil. However, it seems from Lou's posts that three separate software programs are req'd. We have TurboCad. Is this inexpensive program sufficient for our simple 3 axis parts ? What is the cost of the software that generates the tool path ? Is Mach 3 incl. with the SX3 ? Thanks to everyone for all the information, my kind of place.

Please sent email to us for more price info,Sales@syil.cn
Www.Syil.cn

Syil,

Can this mod on the Y axis be done on my machine?

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=188697&postcount=26

This is so that the whole Y-travel stays "on top" of the table.

Thanks!

Nice bench Lou!

I really like your mill mounted shield.

It looks like you sloped the inside of the enclousure to one corner, or is that an affect of the camera angle? If so, how did you do that, and is it normal paint or something more? Did I miss the description of the coolant tray?

Thanks!

-Jeff