Anyone ever implimented a Fagor control? I'm trying to wrap my head around their 'Digital' control and see if its possible to drive my gecko's w/ this or not.. I have no idea at this point what there control output is for their driver interface..

Anyone..??

Jerry [ not really wanting to go this route.. but looking at it anyway.. :rolleyes: ]

Jerry,

Fagor controls can either provide a digital or analog signal command to the servo drives. Thus, if you wish to control your gecko's with virtually any Fagor CNC model, you probably can utilizing the analog command, however insure you have tach feedback to the amplifier from the motor and most any quadrature 5v TTL encoder will work to close the loop at the CNC.

If you provide me with more information on exactly what you're wanting to do, I can probably help you.

Todd

Todd, go easy on me here :).
I was thinking of using the 8070 [or the 8055i] I want to run 6 servo's using the G320's and 500 line encoders. The Gecko's take the encoder signal back and I believe do the count to ensure servo position. Is this the answer your looking for?

The primary reason I've looked at Fagor is for their kinematic tool offsets. I want to do 5 axis w/ the tool on a two axis head, mounted on the end of the Z axis post.

Are you using a Fagor?

Jerry

Jerry,

I am an employee of Fagor Automation.

I recommend you contact Mohit out of the Canadian headquarters office. (In Toronto area) he can be reached at 905-670-7448

Mohit is a very experienced application engineer and can help you quite easily.

As a note, what you are wanting to do is quite easy for the 8070 CNC System and their should be no problems whatsoever with your drive/motor combination.

Todd

Thanks Todd, I've actually already talked to Mohit, and he seem'd pretty knowledgeable about the capabilities, however explaining how I could interface my motor's and control was not as clear. I don't think he as familar with the Gecko line of motor drives.
In your opinion, does the Gecko line of motor controls match well with the analog side of the 8070, is it correct that the 8055i can only control 4 motor's in analog, and the 8070 can control something like 27 in analog? or are those digital numbers or...?

Thanks!
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I do not believe Gecko motors are a well known brand within mainstream Machine tool applications. I am personally not familiar with them, but regardless a servo motor is a servo motor. If the amplifier has an analog command input, we can probably control it.

With your Gecko's you're locked into controlling them with an Analog command vs Digital command. Fagor utilizes Sercos Digital communication platform, and it is unlikely the Gecko's could work with the Fagor control in this mode. We typically sell our own manufactured Digital Drives and Motors for Digital applications. But, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Analog systems.... they work Great !! All of our controls can be either Analog or Digital, it is simply specified which at the time of ordering the control system. We even have the ability to mix and match on the same machine, thus XY could be analog, Z could be digital, etc...

In regards to the maximum number of axes for each control.

8040 compact series = 4 axes control plus 1 or 2 spindles
8055 compact or modular are all up to 7 axes plus 1 or 2 spindles
8070 is up to 28 axes plus 4 spindles. (8070 control is also capable of 4 seperate execution channels)

All controls can simultenously control the maximum number of axes they are capable of being equipped with.

I hope this helps a little bit. :)

Todd

Todd, thanks for taking the time!

The Gecko's I'm talking of, are actually a servo Drive you can get to their website here (www.geckodrive.com) .They sell both stepper and servo drive's. The servo's would be.. I dunno what at this point as I haven't got them. Currently I'm useing NEMA 34 size stepper motor's.

The Gecko drives work on step and direction pulse signal's, and their documentation provides the nitty gritty details on their pulse widths and size etc. I believe they can run up to 1Mhz on the pulse's per axis [the drives will accept up to 1Mhz ]. I'm trying to figure out how to make this work w/ the driver's I'm either currently using or plan to use as it would cut the cost of the system in half, a significant reason :)

Jerry

I don't have anything technical to add.

Just wanted to say that I have been very impressed with Mohit as a tech support/trainer.

I also am very pleased with the 8040 control on my lathe.

Jerry,

I had not realized they were a stepper motor system. We cannot work with stepper motors, (most mainstream control manufacturers cannot nowadays)

You may want to contact Gecko and simply advise them that "the control manufacturer provides a +/- 10vdc command signal to the servo drive and accepts standard quad 5v TTL encoder feedback for position."(We also accept 1vpp)

These are pretty much the industry standards and definitely the most common, and they should know exactly what you need based upon you telling them this. I personally would hate to give you advise on which Gecko drive/motor combination without a thorough Gecko product knowledge. I did go to their website, but its sluggish right now, had a hard time bringing up any pages on it. I would also encourage you to re-open a dialogue with Mohit at the Canadian office. He has a thorough understanding of everything we are speaking of within this thread and he is one of our top Engineers here in North America.

Darebee,

Thank you for the kind words, and we are happy to hear you are having success with your Fagor control !! Call us if ever need any further assistance.

Todd

DareBee, what are you using for motor's and motor drivers? Are they the Fagor unit's or??

Todd, does the control pulse the drive at +/-10vDC or??
I'll have to ask a few more questions :)

I'm a little ways away from settling on this route but am currently just looking at all my options. The current stepper unit I'm using would be upgraded to a servo system at the point where I move to another control, the steppers are just being used to get things up and working.

Jerry

DareBee, what are you using for motor's and motor drivers? Are they the Fagor unit's or??

Todd, does the control pulse the drive at +/-10vDC or??
I'll have to ask a few more questions :)

I'm a little ways away from settling on this route but am currently just looking at all my options. The current stepper unit I'm using would be upgraded to a servo system at the point where I move to another control, the steppers are just being used to get things up and working.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

What happens with an analog system (+/- 10vdc system), is the CNC provides a variable 10vdc signal to the drive input, voltage is applied based upon following error..... it is a constant voltage output. Therefore, if the command is G1 X50 F50, the control would immediately provide an analog command to the drive, which in turn would amplify this voltage to the motor, if the axes begins to get ahead of itself or fall behind the programmed command, the appropriate analog voltage is applied to keep the servo running on course and smoothly based upon the command. The control monitors the position feedback, compares the position to the command and then updates the analog output accordingly approxmiately 1000 times per second.

I would guess that approxmiately 60% of Metalworking machine tools in the world work in this way with an Analog command. Nowadays, slowly but surely Digital drive systems are increasing in popularity, particurarily on new mid and high end machine tools and Large machine retrofits. In another 5-10 years, most machines will be utilizing a Digital Drive System.

Fagor does offer a servo drive/motor combination that would work for your application, please contact the Canadian office if you desire a quotation.

Todd

Todd I'm glad your a patient fella :)

I've already got a quote from Mohit, and it [ including the motor's and drives] was a bit more than I wanted to pay, however I could get it for about 1/2 the price if I could get the drives I've got to mate up w/ the signals from the control unit.
Tell me about the digital side of things, I'm missing something here because the signal for the Gecko drives is a pulsed step and directio [ two wires to control the drive] one pulses for the direction and one sends a pulse for the step, therefore when you want the servo to index 1 count, you would pulse the direction wire once, and the step wire once and it would turn 1 count on the encoder [ say CCW ] If you want it to turn the other direction, you would just pulse the step wire and it would know there had been no pulse on the direction pin, so it would turn CW, 1 encoder count.
Does this sound like anything that an Fagor would do?

Thanks for your patience..
Jerry

Jerry,
Todd is right +/-10vDC this is the most common. Step & Direction for servos is usally just used on the hobby side.
There are "main stream" controller that do Step & Direction. Delta Tau I know for one will control both +/-10vDC.
If you are going to go with a Fagor I would look into other drives that do +/-10. Advanced Motion Controls has low priced drives. http://www.a-m-c.com/ I would not bother with Digital it most likly will not real be noticable to you.

Jerry
My lathe came new with the Fagor control, I am not knowing off hand what motors and drives are used, the drives are Japanese.
Matsu****a or something like that.

Ha ha

I got sensored on the drive name

Todd I'm glad your a patient fella :)

I've already got a quote from Mohit, and it [ including the motor's and drives] was a bit more than I wanted to pay, however I could get it for about 1/2 the price if I could get the drives I've got to mate up w/ the signals from the control unit.
Tell me about the digital side of things, I'm missing something here because the signal for the Gecko drives is a pulsed step and directio [ two wires to control the drive] one pulses for the direction and one sends a pulse for the step, therefore when you want the servo to index 1 count, you would pulse the direction wire once, and the step wire once and it would turn 1 count on the encoder [ say CCW ] If you want it to turn the other direction, you would just pulse the step wire and it would know there had been no pulse on the direction pin, so it would turn CW, 1 encoder count.
Does this sound like anything that an Fagor would do?

Thanks for your patience..
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I am not very familiar with stepper systems, I do know they are considered more on the hobby side of things and certainly have some cost advantages, however, I do not believe you receive the resolution and speed of analog or Sercos Digital systems. In addition, with Sercos Digital systems, more information is processed beyond just the command, the feedback loop is actually closed at the drive versus the CNC feedback port and the CNC and drives communicate with each other via high speed fiber optics to process commands, positions, servo updates and monitor performance in real time.

There are many additional advantages to this method and probably too many for me to list, thus I would recommend you visit the following link for additional information on Sercos Digital Drive Systems and how they work and their advantages:

http://www.sercos.com/tech_info/compare_technologies.htm

good luck with your decision !!

Todd

Hi Todd,

What servo drives can I use for this application: Fagor 8025GP with Fanucs DC Servo Motors?

Thanks,

Jorge Martinez

You should be able to use A-M-C with an appropriatly sized drive±10vdc control.
BTW you can also drive a DC motor with a Brushless DC drive if it is setable to 60° commutation.
Al.