Ok Borris (and others),

I have posted the pics of my shoptask, as I told you it is currently down since I am building a new control cabnet, so ignore the hanging wires. I will update with pics as the new cabnet progresses. I also put up the adjustable limits I was telling you about, and the DC moters and drives.

Check the "Member Galleries", under poppabear10,

NOTE: it only let me add 13 pics, so I will try to add the rest on this thread, since I am out of picture space.

S.

motor mounts for my mill and lathe

rotaries for the trunion table

overall front view of my shoptask

x-limit right side to show mounting post

z-limt home side view

my scott shumate 3 axis dro, (off the machine for changes)

reposted control box here

my KB spindle drives

stuff yet to go into my control box

control box top down

the layout board I used to build the trial control box

left side control box for fan exhaust for geckos

left side control box, just after I drilled the holes for the 5 axis plugs, and I/O

Lathe moter with splash shield above, and DC feedback tach

Mill moter with custom made motor mount

flood coolent sytem tank 2 gallon that I found harbor frieght


I will post more as I continue to progress forward

s.

Scott,
If you need any help with stuff yet to go into my control box
Don't call me :D

Can't wait to see the 4th axis in full operation.

Ken

Ken,

hahahaha, thanks ken, I think.......
The 4th works great as is, it is the trunion I am worried about making work right.

Scott

What I meant was, it looks too complicated for me :D

That is right, I had forgotten, you already had a 4th axis working. I have no doubts that you will get the trunion up and running to your expectations.

BTW, control box looks very professional, who did it for you :D


Ken

owwwwww,

Ya got me mick, please pull the knife out when I am gone.......

Actually Ed Gilbert helped me to do the lay out, (I sent him an email complimenting him of his control cabnet that he put up here), He emailed me back and I found out he was close enough to drive to. So I went to his house/shop, and he helped me do the layout, he even made me a index signal capture board for indexing/homing the 4th and 5th. He uses Mach, and also helped me to learn about Modbus. (the control board we layed out originally was the pic of the Old wood panel board. I just made a metal cabnet, and have added to the design, the plugs, other things as well)
I will be doing a relay controlled Mill or Lathe selector switch as well.

Ed does Machines and Controls for a living, so it was great to learn pearls at the foot of a master. He specializes in large industrial Dry-ice packing machines.

BTW Ken: I am still waiting on YOUR pics of your machine.......... :)

Hi Scott,

Nice pictures! So, I see you went with Industrial Hobbies optical limits. How do they work? as advertised?

Edit: I need to find an Ed in my neck of the woods. I don't know what I need more, some guidance or a swift kick in the ass.

Chris

Yes, the IH limits are excellent, and well made, the are very repeatable, about 0.0002-0.0005, I was and am, very pleased with them. His customer support was excellent as well. The guy is a true addition to our hobbie and community.

Yea, Having an "Ed", around is nice, I knew how to hook it up, just not how to do an "industrial" box. I had never before used Din rails, terminal blocks, wire runs, etc. So it was good to learn the "method behind the madness".

Thanks for he compliment Chris,

Scott

All kidding aside that box looks really good.

In regards to my lathe conversion, I, in no way have given up on it, but was really wanting to get the bed on first since all the related components will work from that. My "FRIEND" who is supposed to be getting me a piece of material that I am really hoping will work well, still has not come through, what a surprise !.
I did get a email from him that he expects to have it shortly. If this material works, and I really think it is going to work well, will really be a cost saver. In the mean time I have fabricated several temporary supports for the THK rails and have begun to machine the z travel carriage. As soon as something really comes together I will be posting pics.

Your equipment sure has come a long way, looking forward to seeing it progress.

Ken

Thanks Ken,

I will continue to get more pics up as it progresses, I really love building this stuff and machines. Sometimes I enjoy building the machine more than using it....sometimes that is......

Looking forward to your pics as well.

I love all this machine porn! Love the pictures PoppaBear, I'll get some for you as well. The only problem with good pictures, is that when you see them you want to change things around! I'm still a firm believer in integration of the CPU into the box. That way you only need one "controller".

P.S. I just got my G100 today. Man oh man, this changes everything!!!!

Hi Scott,
Thanks for all the pictures! Looks like you're well on the way for a complex Mach controlled machine. I like how you integrated the limit/home switches....and how you utilised the panel door for the motor controls!
I'll be watching this as you bring the whole setup together!
Kudos to you!

John (bloy)

Yea, I had it controlled already, but only 4 axis, I decided to just redo the entire controller. I ran a Camtronics 4 axis controller for years, but just wanted another axis, and room to add all the extra stuff

Well here is the almost finished about 75% or so, Got all the wiring and connections done, (all that is left as far a wiring goes is to hook up the PLC to the ATC I'll be building).
I still have to install the cabnet into the "control center".
also is the energy chains I put on to neatin stuff up, and the conduit also.

Well I have installed the Control box, into the Control center.
I still have some detail work left, like put on a door, neatin up the wiring, cover the wood surfaces with a nice venier so it looks more profesional. I added a rhino power supply for my DL06. Still gotta hook up my coolent, ATC, and a few other odds and ends. and of course got to finish my trunion so I can start cutting 5 axis parts.

I thought I had a batch of din terminals, but can't find them in the mess down in the basement. Did you get yours at a good price? Automation Direct has good prices, but the minimum quantities are way too high for what I'm doing.

Yea, I got my connectors from Automation Direct, if you look on there site, they have listings for small packs, (like 10-25 pieces), or boxes of 100.

Hey Scott,
That is looking so good, I have to envy your tenacity and energy. When done that will have to be the most modified and advanced combo mill/drill/lathe in the world.
Nice work.

One of my problem is that all my toys are not at home but at my shop and once I get home and get something to eat, sit down and relax for a bit, more often then not....well....that is the rest of the story.

Thanks Ken,

I am the same way, when I get home, if I dont goto the shop right away and start doodling....... (like sit down an eat instead......), I am done.

BTW: I wanted to post this pic on the onecnc site, but it wont let me for some reason.... never had problems before.

I picked up a neat 5 axis kit for the shoptask. Amazing. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get my machine back together.

What Kit?? What's it called, where did you get it? Who makes it?

Come on, puke up some details!!!!!

Scott

Well, it's a long story. It is, however, a one of a kind. Made for the shoptask to do 5 axis machining in the aerospace arena. I'm excited to get some pictures posted, just because it is so neat.

Let me see if I can describe it:

It has an R8 shaft that fits into the spindle. The unit secures itself to the spindle via, adapter. I as two stepper motors for the two axis on it. One axis rotates about the Z axis 360 degrees. The other rotates about the X-Y axis, depending on where the first axis is. It has a nose on it that accepts smaller, custom made collets.

Looks VERY similar to this:

Please take some some measurements and draw some plans.......

Unfortunatly, I have to use the Trunio style set up. My CAM dosent do 4/5th of the type your talking about with a Mach controller the mach controller doesnt have the specialized tool offset stuff like G48/9 etc.

scott

Scott, just an FYI I've found a company that will write a 'pre-postprocessor' of sorts. It will convert the code, taking into concideration the Kinematic model of the head. Let me know if this is something that might work.. Hopefully Art can give you some good news next weekend.. and this won't be needed.. ;)

Borris..
I'm curious as to how the head stands up to the driving thrust of the gearbox on this head. It would appear that if the tools got under alot of load, the head would want to move on either the centerline axis or the pivot axis, unless your using a huge reduction or stepper to hold the position.Any idea what the gearing is, and how the backlash is removed??
What CAM software do you plan to use w/ this?

Jerry [I hate summer.. these "Honey-Do's" are killing my build time for my machine.. grrrrrrrrr]--ok 'Hate' might be a bit harsh.. :)

Jerry,

I guess the big money question would be, how much do they charge for this service?
and I dont know how they would pre-process the info, since when you do the tool paths and click the "Post button", the info from the tool paths goes directly through it. you have no access to get into this information stream. The post itself would have to be modified by the software maker to allow you to preemt its grabbing of the tool paths and putting out the G-code. You can do alot of things with the post as far as its format is concerned. BUT it would have to be a Post-Post processors to convert the 4-5th g code and modify it.......

from what I understand from the people that make onecnc, your Machine controller has to have the ability to do a 4/5 axis on the z spindle for you to be able to modify the post to take advantage of it......

For me at least, it is easier to build, CAM and use a Trunion table to do 3+2 machining, than to try and figure out offsets and clearances on an arm like that.

Like you I have questions to the stability/accuracy of the noted shoptask 4/5th spindle head, as well as, how much it would decrease the maching envolope

scott

Scott, maybe my 'wordage' was not the best choice. The processor would read in the posted NC code and then you'd input your tool offsets [ same as a G48 or G49, only its not into a control program like Mach]. Then the processor would export the code back out as straight Gcode, with the kinematic's calculated into it. I didn't get an exact price from them, however it was to be in the neighbourhood of a grand or so.. I've not pushed farther into this until I hear what Art decides on the offset option. I've also chased down more options w/ other CAM programs, and have found that FeatureCAM will infact take the tool offsets into account, as well as a full model of your machine [ simulation] not just the tool holder or spindle... but the whole machine... Apparently it works very well. I've downloaded a trial version of it, but haven't had time to play w/ it just yet. I may end up switching, however.. It's all dependant on what happen's w/ Mach and the offsets.

I think the table envelope will decrease by the distance from pivot to tool tip, so.. its dependant on the length of tool. Some basic dimensional drawings of Borris's 5x head would help figure it out. As well as what the kit costs.. and where it can be purchased... [hint hint Borris ;)]

Jerry [5 axis or bust...:cool:]

Jerry,

Yea, I am gonna stick with OneCNC for life, the program and the people that make it have been awsome to me.......

Mach 3: I have spoken with Art about the G48/9's..etc....and he said depending on how much demand for it there is, will dictate if it is something he will implement or not....
I will be seeing him at the 2cd annual cnc workshop and will address this issue specifically. There is ONE other Mach user on the OneCNC forum that wants to do a spindle 5 axis machine (including me at some point), that I will be casting his vote for it as well. Perhaps if enough of the Mach community asks about it, he will do it. I don't know what the magic number would be though. I can understand his reluctance, I am sure it is quite a pain in the rear-end to implement and then bug chase something that complex. I see it as more of an option that would go with Mach4 and G-Rex since that is moving more toward a "Commercial control". Other than your very odd birds like me, you, and a limited hand full of others not many are willing to take the challenge of the machine. Further, and in my opion the Largest hurtle. Given the extream complexity of spindle 5 axis....you would HAVE to have a CAM product capable of doing the paths. Yes, if you are a math genious you can spend a ton of time hand coding 5 axis........but, me, I have work to do.

Perhaps between me, you, and a few others we can get him to implement the code into the mach 4, and/or even Mach 3..... in either case I dont see it happening anytime soon. So for now, I will stick with my trunion, it does everything I want to do, and at a price and technical know how I can handle.

scott

As far as side loading: Held with two steppers.

Gear backlash: So far their isn't any. I'm using tapered angled gears. Nice and tight.

I'm new, so I don't know how I'm going to operate this beast. I'm using SprutCAM, which will be adding "live" 4th and 5th axis sometime this year. It does have several options for 4th and 5th rotational around x, y, and z axis.

My controller is Mach 3 and 4. I have two shop tasks. One running 4 axis, mach 3. One running 6 axis and mach 4.

Hopefully I haven't made a mistake. At the price, it was a once in a lifetime deal. So I went for it.

Great pictures, better than drawings. I have a shoptask too and have been working on it for a long time. After bending several microswitches, I bought a IH photo limit switch just to try, Couldn't figure out how to mount it. Your pictures have inspired me. But when I checked the IH site, they don't list the switches as available. Only have one. So I will use it on the X axis, I like the adjustable stops for different operations. Is there anywhere else to buy the other 2 switches? PS I installed a power drawbar on the mill and it works great. Something to think about.

Thanks,
Ray

Ray,

You can buy as many of the IH switches as you want from him. You have to specify wire lead out sides per switch per axis.
You would want 3 switchs with the wire comming out the Right hand side, (I got 1 left for the Y then relized I needed the wires comming out the other side to clear my Axis dro scale, I had to relocate it).

Power Draw Bar?? Where from, how much, whos brand?

scott

For those looking for inexpensive, (free), 3, 4, 5 axis software, have you looked at the CNC Toolkit. I'm pretty sure this can be configured for just about any axis setup you can build. The toolkit runs as a plugin for 3DS Max, version 5 or 6, or on a free version called Gmax. (It will not run on version 8 or 9) The cost is the time it takes to learn, it's not easy. If you like it you can buy full support for $99.
Usual disclaimers,
Jerry

My version of a power drawbar is a 3/8" impact wrench from Harbor Freight. ( about $18).
I keep it hooked up with the right socket next to my machine.
Jerry

Well, it's a long story. It is, however, a one of a kind. Made for the shoptask to do 5 axis machining in the aerospace arena. I'm excited to get some pictures posted, just because it is so neat.

Let me see if I can describe it:

It has an R8 shaft that fits into the spindle. The unit secures itself to the spindle via, adapter. I as two stepper motors for the two axis on it. One axis rotates about the Z axis 360 degrees. The other rotates about the X-Y axis, depending on where the first axis is. It has a nose on it that accepts smaller, custom made collets.

Looks VERY similar to this:

Very Cool. I've seen this pic and drawing before. Can you post a pic of your actual unit. It's not clear, at least to me, where the steppers are attached.

It looks as if it contains a double set of miter gears, do you run the main spindle backwards to get regular rotation of its spindle?

Please post any and all info, I just might want to build one of these beasts!

Thanks,
Jerry

Got the info on the power drawbar. I bought it on Ebay for around $650. To install it, I fabricated a plate that rides on the top cover support. The other end made a support to end of the mill head. I have some pictures, but not sure how you post them here. I will give it a try.file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/HP_Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Power%20Drawbar/11%20Power%20Drawbar%20.jpgSorry just dont have the knack yet. Maybe next time.

Ray

Well, it's a long story. It is, however, a one of a kind. Made for the shoptask to do 5 axis machining in the aerospace arena. I'm excited to get some pictures posted, just because it is so neat.

Let me see if I can describe it:

It has an R8 shaft that fits into the spindle. The unit secures itself to the spindle via, adapter. I as two stepper motors for the two axis on it. One axis rotates about the Z axis 360 degrees. The other rotates about the X-Y axis, depending on where the first axis is. It has a nose on it that accepts smaller, custom made collets.

Looks VERY similar to this:

Got any of those pictures to show yet?
Surely you can post a picture of it on a table or something...heh?

Or maybe just temporarily mount it and snap a shot?

Got the info on the power drawbar. I bought it on Ebay for around $650. To install it, I fabricated a plate that rides on the top cover support. The other end made a support to end of the mill head. I have some pictures, but not sure how you post them here. I will give it a try.file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/HP_Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Power%20Drawbar/11%20Power%20Drawbar%20.jpgSorry just dont have the knack yet. Maybe next time.

Ray

Did you have a "next time" yet?
I'd like to see THOSE pictures puullease!

Guys-
Where can I see the power drawbar pictures?

I tried to post them, but it didn't work.
Can anybody explain how to do it?
I don't have a web page to post them to, so i tried to include them in the text. That didn't work.

If you tell me how, I'll try again.

:confused:

To post photos you need to have them hosted somewhere on the internet. then just click the "add image" button and enter the URL where the photo is hosted.

There are several sites that will allow you to do this...I think photobucket is one of them. I'm not sure since I host my own pics. Anyone else?

You can add them here, when you reply to a message, scroll down to below the text input box and you will see "Manage Attachments" button, click that and add away.

Thanks for the tips,
Hope the pictures come thru this time
I hope this gives you an idea of how i did it.
Thanks

Retired Ray

Clever setup- how is the belt changing- looks like it might be a bit complicated.

Don't need to change it much since I installed the 3 phase motor and variable speed drive. It gives me a good range of speed and the torque stays pretty high. I'm happy with the setup.

Retired Ray:)

Hey PoppaBear and Bloy.

I've been reading through your respective threads because I'm getting ready to CNC my shoptask with a kit and stepper motors purchased from Camtronics.

I put my Z axis motor in so that the pulley lines up with the pulley on the fine adjustment. Then after looking at your guys machines I noticed that you have your motor placed in a completely different location and there is a screw (ballscrew maybe?) running from the motor mounting plate to the arm on the quill that I don't have. Is this extra screw part of the ball screw upgrade?

Eric Q.

With the ball screw option, the motor mounts vertically and the quill is driven directly - bypassing all the drill press gears etc. Its a much better system for CNC operation. Shoptask offers the ball seperate ball screw option for the Z axis on their website.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that like the other axis' there was an acme screw somewhere that would be replaced by the ball screw upgrade. It looks like this is more of an add-on.

When you say 'bypass all the drill press gears', do you mean that they are removed/disengaged or just they don't play the same role that they used to?

I guess my question is if I wanted to start building my own home brew ball screw for the Z axis, can I leave the machine in tact in case I need to use it to machine parts and then just seemlessly switch over to 'ball screw' operation when ready?

$300 seems like a lot of money for a short ball screw but then again things always seem more expensive until I try to duplicate them myself. :)

Thanks,
Eric Q.

The Z ball screw is actually the most complex of the upgrades. There are 2 special brackets which attache to the original CNC plate to mount the motor vertically. Then there are torrington bearings, a special CNC drive pulley threaded to match the ball screw threads and a sheet metal cover. I think all these items were standard starting with the Bridgemill. You do not have to remove any of the drill press stuff, you just keep the knob engaged in the drill press mode so the ball screw can drive the quill up and down. I had a spring behind the knob to keep it engaged. Its pretty easy to go back to manual mode if you want. Oh yeah- there are also some laser cut steel plates that go around the quill bracket to drive it up and down.

One of the emc developers has done a lot to his shoptask

http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom

You can read back.. I think he made his own rotating nut z axis ball screw setup.

sam

Samco,
Thanks for the tip on that website- this guy is really amazing. I wonder how he finds the time and energy for all those projects, and he has such a broad range of knowledge on so many things. After using a machine paid for by tax dollars, I wanted to invest in one for myself, but its funny how spending your own money is a whole different ball game. There is another site I found that pretty much convinced me to buy a used Quadra Lift machine- This guy is also amazing on the amount of work he has done and the stuff he produces.

http://journals.aol.com/johnstranahanb/RebarrelingandHome-ShopMachining/