Removed with permission from daughter-in-law

Who called you a bigot?

And a more pertinent question: is it true?

wikipedia def:
For various famous people called Bigot and other meanings, see Bigot (disambiguation).

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions differing from his own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman. Today, it is considered a synonym of closed-minded.

Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to his or her prejudices even when these prejudices are challenged or proven to be false, often advocating and defending these prejudices in a rude and intolerant manner. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or worldview such as racism, religion, nationalism or homophobia.

I believe in calling a spade a spade. While the statement "Chinese machinery is built more crudely than American machinery? may be false in several instances, because of its nature as a blanket statement. I personaly have never seen a high end chineese machine that is as good as a high end american machine. But on the other hand if you compare a high end chineese machine with a comparatively priced american (probably isn't one in the lower price ranges) you will find a competative machine.

Personaly I think the most important question is why do you care? Most people that cast dispersions of this sort typicaly either don't know how to have a "point vs. counter point discusion" or are themselves bigoted in some form IMHO.

So Ignore them!

I can say with certainty that German machines are better than American machines. Does that make me a bigot too? I don't speak from prejudice (pre-judging before one has the facts) I speak from experience.

I can say with certainty that Canadian beer is better than American beer. Does that make me a bigot too?

My point is that some countries produce better products than others. Saying so does not make you a bigot, but denying the facts can be an expensive mistake

I wouldn't worry about it.

Dan

Quality has no race.

II can say with certainty that Canadian beer is better than American beer.

You have my full attention now. Which Canadian beer is your favorite? I will conduct a taste test :)

kdoney....well...just based on that statement....I would not consider you a bigot.....remember we went through this a few decades ago with Japanese machinery....the Chinese made machinery will eventually evolve to the level of the Japanese machinery......as far as machinery goes the US machinery is a good compromise on quality,price and performance....I believe that German machinery is of higher quality...but way more expensive....

Seems like it's time to let a government grant to determine whether any of our suspicions are correct...

Bottom line. Its about pay, Germans get paid more than Americans (I think do , their machines cost more anyway) Americans get paid more than Chinese ( This I know and our machines cost more), so really its all about cost. And for Canadian beer , Molson

Chinese machinery will continue to improve over time and as far as US machines are any of the major builders still owed by a US company Some company like the Chinese machinery because the only plan a life cycle of 5 years before they scrap them They do it because it cost effective to plan a replacement and take the tax write-off As for Beer Sam Adams BOSTON Lager

Wayne

Give Alexander Keiths a taste, even Blue os better than most US beers.
Sam Adams is very good but WAY too much money (up here anyway).
What I don't understand is why American beer made in Canada is not the same as it's US counterpart. Our Bud is NOT the same as your Bud - nor is the Silver Bullet.

BTW I have never had Chinese beer

Your Beer Is 5.5 Percent Alchol Ours Is 3.2 Sam Is The Same Price As Molson Here But When I Go North To Your Great Land I Drink Molson Golden Ale

churman masheenery, churman beer, churman kars, ze world!
:cheers:

I agree Churman cars are great, but way too many repairs needed.

Golden....shudder....definately not my taste.
Muskoka Cream Ale is very good as well but very expensive (it is flavourful as well).
Yeah you guys get screwed paying import price for our beer down there. I tried some Molson products last time I was in US and again they are not the same as what we get here. The stuff bought at duty free is correct to its origin though.
You know...when in Rome....

We get screwed for just about everything

Hey guys I think this was about someone thinking they might be a bigot not if they were going to get some from the spigot! :D

had to say it was too easy!

I once picked up 3 inexpensive Chinese made angel grinders (I know this because they said made in China on them). Each survived about 10 minutes light use before the motors burned out.

I now have a Bosch (same size, power, and even color). It doesn't even got warm to the touch in extended heavy use.

This is only one example and I'm sure that most people can site several counter examples showing exactly the oposite.

RE: Canadian beer. I'm a home brewer, wouldn't touch anything else...

bigot spigot in the end the beer I dig it

As far as production machines, I would have to go with everyone else on this, but as far as one off machines, I would think that all of these contry's/Nationalities can make the highest of quality if its needed.

I know of a local manufacturer (recently died) that made a centerless OD grinding/laping machine that could get the finish into the Wavelength catagory. The machine was fairly robust and cant say that anyone made a better machine.

But that dosn't mean that we are the only ones that can do it.

Here's a joke that plays on nationality stereotypes (not bigotry):

Heaven is a place where:
1) All the cooks are French
2) All the police are British
3) All the lovers are Italian
4) All the mechanics are German
5) All the politicians are Swiss

Hell, however, is a place where:
1) All the cooks are British
2) All the police are German
3) All the mechanics are French
4) All the lovers are Swiss
5) All the politicians are Italian

But Who Drinks The Beer and is it a beer from Canada?

that would be the Americans! :D

that would be the Americans! :D

We americans will drink anything good or bad!

He didn't want to make anyone envious.

1) All the cooks are French

And if you eat all that rich buttery french food in heaven, will this lead to hardening of the arteries and possible a heart attack in heaven. Or does the fact that you are already in heaven make you immune from poor eating habits?

And if it does lead to heart problems, then if you die in heaven... where do you go after that?

We americans will drink anything good or bad!

Just chill it down real cold so we can't tell it has no taste.

The lack of flavour is why Boilermakers and Redeyes were invented....No?

The lack of flavour is why Boilermakers and Redeyes were invented....No?
That was made for the people who don't drink beer-US or Canadian beer

No! Boilermakers and redeyes were invented so You won't remember who you went home with (only to be used in desperation, When there are no "good" pickens to be had! ;) )

Redeyes are named for thier ability to mask who you wake up with so you don't have Cyote love and have to chew your arm off in order to get away from them.
:D

Boy this thread went down hill quickly! good think I have a helmet! ;)

Cyote love and have to chew your arm off in order to get away from them.
:D


I don't know about Canada but we have a group around here called PETA and would not accept the fact that some would go home with a CYOTE even if you drank Chinese beer

Lol

This might be better filed under "Club House" but it goes it:

My $0.02: China doesn't make anything of good quality. Not because they can't, simply because WE don't buy it. They make crappy stuff and we eat it up all day long. They will, eventually, raise their quality level - as Japan has done - and start competing on a plane level with everyone else.

Nothing against China, they're struggling for a buck and work really hard for it. But they only sell their stuff because is cheap and you get what you pay for.

Me a bigot? you betcha!

JR

PS: Spigot? Sam Adams

And if you eat all that rich buttery french food in heaven, will this lead to hardening of the arteries and possible a heart attack in heaven.

But the Frogs have the lowest incidence of heart attack, arterial disease and strokes in the western world.....

But the Frogs have the lowest incidence of heart attack, arterial disease and strokes in the western world.....
The French eat frogs and when did they do that study? Did they compare bull frogs with tree frogs? And did they drink US or Canadian beer when they did the study

STOP!

LMFAO

I'm still laughing about the cyote! :D

I won't get any work done if this keeps up!

Actually the Chinese do make a lot better quality stuff then you generally see over here. However, it is more expensive and that's why you don't see it. In general we are only interested in the cheap crap! I know one of the major Japanese bearing manufacturers outsources work to a factory that makes precision bearings. They charge 30 to 40% more than all the other bearing manufacturers in China but they use the latest Japanese and European equipment.

My girlfriend is from Shanghai so I know a little about the way things work. A lot of the big manufacturers want to get into China for the potential market and also cheaper labour. However, to do this, they have to commit to moving R&D as well as manufacturing. Very smart on the part of the chinese as 10 to 20 years from now, once they have all been trained on the latest techniques, they won't need the western companies anymore. Very worrying for the long term health of manufacturing over here.

we have a group around here called PETA

we have them too.

People for the Eating of Tasty Animals :cheers:

I once picked up 3 inexpensive Chinese made angel (I know this because they said made in China on them).
RE: Canadian beer. I'm a home brewer, wouldn't touch anything else...
I thought Angels were made in Heaven, no???
If you keep "picking up" angels you may go to He_ _. (flame2)

Rye beats barley any day! :cheers:

This has to be the fastest moving thread in the ZONE, must be the spring weather when a mans thoughts turn to .........................(nonsense maybe?)

Just to be a stick in the mud and return to the original post for a sec;
I am being accused of being a bigot for my general statement that Chinese machinery is built more crudely than American machinery...

I think the Eagles said it best: "victim of this, victim of that... Get Over It" ;)


Tiger

you could put beer in mud to keep it cold till you open it

ever took apart a chinese dial indicator to repair it ? if you have , need anymore be said

The French eat frogs and when did they do that study? Did they compare bull frogs with tree frogs? And did they drink US or Canadian beer when they did the study

If you put a frog in american beer won't it just swim around??? :D

Muskoka cream ale is good, Steam whislte is alright too, the tour is always fun if ever in Downtown T.O.
So many micro breweries....so little time

that depends on if it a tree frog or a bull frog

On Answers.com I found this definition for a bigot:

Hacker Slang

bigot

A person who is religiously attached to a particular computer, language, operating system, editor, or other tool. Usually found with a specifier; thus, Cray bigot, ITS bigot, APL bigot, VMS bigot, Berkeley bigot. Real bigots can be distinguished from mere partisans or zealots by the fact that they refuse to learn alternatives even when the march of time and/or technology is threatening to obsolete the favored tool.

So if this is extended to include CNC machines, CAD and CAM programs, etc., I figure this forum is overloaded with bigots.

I quess that would make me a beer bigot

On Answers.com I found this definition for a bigot:
I figure this forum is overloaded with bigots.
Dew dey haf daffynishions uff smal guts two, oar jest da big guts ewe menshund????
Yu mey tink dere ar alot of big guts ere, butt probly alot uf small guts is un dis formum two eye tink!!!
Eye half neffer seed dis smyly useded b4 :bs: :bs: :bs: butt tink et mite epply two dis tread da whey et seams two bee go-wing!!

Eye'm nut a big gut, sew dunt kall me wun, oar eye mite gat engwry (nuts)en keck yur neecaps en.

I can say with certainty that German machines are better than American machines. Does that make me a bigot too? I don't speak from prejudice (pre-judging before one has the facts) I speak from experience.



German machinery is sure better build, but being better overall im not so sure about it. Every time one of them breaks down I have to order the part directly from Germany because it is always some super-duper-special material-unique design piece, instead of getting a simple replacement from the store around the corner.

I guess that, for me, the machine that gets the job done is the best, and this beer, the one I have on my hand, is the very best in the world.

HUH !!!!

maybe i could understand that kinda talk after a 12 pack but i highly doubt it
maybe closer to a 24 but no , still highly doubt it

If I was to buy a Grinding machine it would be Sweedish made

Studer (or is that Churman as well?)
Great machine - expensive maintenance and service though

It's obvious now. Mention beer in a post, and it will get a lot of response. As for my favorite beer, I prefer beer imported from Germany or Belgium. Betcha you didn't see that coming! :cheers:

Dan

Removed with permission from daughter-in-law
she didn't remove your beer I fear

Only beer I will drink is made in Utah called Moose Drool! (hopefully this isn't a discription on how its made! But hey I would still probably drink it. :D)

Only beer I will drink is made in Utah called Moose Drool!

Every brewer has a secret ingredient for that unique taste and consistency. :)

The alcohol probably kills the germs anyway

Only beer I will drink is made in Utah called Moose Drool! (hopefully this isn't a discription on how its made! But hey I would still probably drink it.

On that note, has anyone ever seen this?... Bear Whiz Beer (http://www.bearwhiz.com/)

I have a cup with that logo on it that I purchased back in 198? at Bushkill Falls, PA (http://www.visitbushkillfalls.com/).

The best beer is usually FREE BEER :cheers: (not always, though!).

Drinking beer has all kinds of benefits, it made Budweiser and Gennesee. ;)

Did you hear about the Sorority house that had a party at the beach? All of the girls wound up with sand in their Schlitz! :rolleyes:

I used to date a Bootlegger's daughter. All she wanted to do was make me liquor! :p

Back on topic, I don't think your statement was bigoted and therefore you are not a bigot. At least not on this topic. What got you in trouble was you made a statement that was a "sweeping generalization" about products produced in a certain country. Sweeping generalization statements by nature will get you in trouble about anything (women, men, beer, countries, kids, and on-and-on).

I know I've purchased very expensive products made in USA, Canada, Germany, Sweden, etc. that weren't worth the packaging they were shipped in. On the other hand, I've purchased products made in Japan, China, USA, Taiwan, India, etc. that were so cheap that I hoped they would work just to "get me through" whatever I needed to do at the time. Some of those "cheapies" turned out to be great products and I still use them today. That's why CNCzone and the internet in general is such a big help. Everyone can be steered away from the crappy products and directed to products that work. Those of us that listen to good advice, anyway.


Just my 2 cents,

HayTay

Those of us that listen to good advice, anyway.

To bad there aren't more people that do that!

Then there probably wouldn't be crap out there to buy, because they wouldn't stay in business very long!

For some reason I don’t think that this thread will ever have an end or a beginning

For some reason I don’t think that this thread will ever have an end or a beginning

This is the thread that never ends.....
Yes it goes on and on my friends......
Some people, Started reading it not knowing what it was..and they'll continue reading it forever just because.....
This is the thread that never ends......
Yes it goes on and on my friends....

ok... ok... I'll stop :D

German machines are tight...ait dat why dey lost some battle somewheres in his-tory???? My memory ain't too good, but I do recall that the german guns were made with such precision that after firing them 3-4 times the metal would expand from the heat and the tolerances would change causing their guns to jam. They became sitting ducks.
The Sloppy built american guns actually gave them the advantage poor germans became fish in a barrel so to speak.

The moral of the storey Drink more beer while machining and keep them tolerances loose....cause you never know...... :cheers:

The best beer is usually FREE BEER

I heard that HayTay put some FREE BEER in this thread.
If this keeps up it is bound to lead to more big guts.

Hey Lakeside, I found the beginning you mentioned!
It's back there at post #1 in the thread. That's no :bs:

The moral of the storey Drink more beer while machining and keep them tolerances loose....cause you never know......

Ya you never know! Loose like I like my women!

did I realy type that? ;)

BEER! Breakfast of Champions!!!

I've converted myself and my vehicle, now we both run on alcohol.

Let's all go to Beer Church (http://www.beerchurch.com). A religious experience for all of those who pray for more beer. While your there make sure you check out the Beer Drinker Dictionary (http://www.beerchurch.com/dictionary.htm). Here's your chance to "Be responsible and use beer as a way to do good things." Beer Church, commune with friends, beer and peanuts instead of people who "pass out bread and wine". Beer Church (http://www.beerchurch.com/) , no better place to "altar" your reality.

Improve your world view, put on a pair of beer goggles. :cool: You've seen for yourself what a good set of beer goggles can do for the less than attractive people in a bar, let's use the power of the beer goggles on a global scale!!!

Remeber the toast at Prince Charles and Lady Diana's (may she rest in peace) wedding? Drink UP CHUCK and DI!!!

To quote ALF, "Hey, let's go check out the fridge."


L8r, I think I hear the fridge calling me,

HayTay

Loose like I like my ..............

A bushing or shim might solve that problem.

I think this thread has completely unraveled. Can we recover enough to knit something to cover our "big guts"? Whatcha think WeldTutor?

Nothin' I like better than to go out with a few loose women and "grab a Heiney" or 2 or 3 or 6 or 12. Remember college and all those "case studies" you always had to do? When you can get it, it's especially nice to be able to "grab a Dark Heiney (http://www.briansbelly.com/beerbelly/heinekendark.shtml)".

Always vote NO on Beer Recycling!


Time to go work on my 6-pack Abs,

HayTay

I think this thread has completely unraveled. Can we recover enough to knit something to cover our "big guts"?
Sounds as if you have "domestic skills" that we were not aware of.

As to whether the big guts can be covered, this thread is probably long enough to be knit into a cover for the largest of the 6 pack abs.

I'm outa' thread!
Bye Now :wave:

And the bottom of this thread is no wear insight

We are way past the bottom man!

Just to give some perspective: I don't think the originator of this thread did anything other than start it!

Bet he's sorry for that.

But hey who cares as long as there is enough sausage in the kitty and Light and Dark Heiney to go around we can give miss Rosie the day off and have some good times!

see I told you!

WAY past bottom!

But hey who cares as long as there is enough sausage in the kitty

dude you're plumbing new depths with that one :D

way way past bottom!

and I won't even comment on that comment! :D :D

Do I need to mention P.E.T.A. and Chinese beer again?

LMFAO!

I am begining to realy like you lakeside!

:D

Hopefuly Not The Way You Feel About Kitty And Cyotes

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:


SPEACHLESS?

Tonight News Is Reporting That A Cyote Is Running Around Centalpark In Newyork City I Wonder If It's Running From A Machinist Who Drank Some Chinesee Beer?

Brings to mind other ALF quotes:

1) "Here, kitty, kitty, kitty!"
2) "There's hair in this tuna fish...I like it!" One of my personal favorites.
3) "I never met a cat I didn't like!"
4) "Yo, Willie. Burn the cat."

On the ALF sitcom didja ever wonder why the kitty's name was "LUCKY" and the guys name was "WILLIE"?

5) "The only good cat, is a stir-fried cat." With Chinese Beer, of course.
6) "All right, then? How about if we eat the cat? (Eyes Lynn as if she was the cat) How ya doin', Lucky?" More than a little suggestive, I'd say.

Gotta go, its dinner time. Gonna whip up a kitty stir-fry and grab a quick snack so I have enough energy to get Lucky. I think I hear the kitty in the bedroom.

HayTay

Do the limbo... How low can you go?

This Thread Is Going Down And No Chance Of Coming Up

well I asked or friends from downunder if they got some good beer so lets see were it leads?(this should get good)

german(Beck) and canadian (molson brador) beer yes, chinese and mexican beer no.. most european (german, swiss) and american machines, yes. chinese food yes,(larry like his kung poa hot) chinese machines no, (till they catch up to japan that is) could be a while though. Generally speaking of course, there are always exceptions...
remember when all 'made in japan' meant was junk?? now we have honda, toyota, sony, etc

and the thread lives on let not forget JVC

:cheers: Hey, A big HAPPY days to you'all. I have had the Chinese beer and I rather like the B-d Light better, but, XX is far better. I think i enjoyed reading about the beer part best, all the other stuff about the b-got, etc is a little hard for me to keep on reading the thread.... but, the beer talk kept me on the line... Hey, a Little Late... lol

as the song goes, "try a little kindness..." :boxing:

YOU MENTIONED B_d light on THIS THREAD???? YOUR BANNDED FROM THIS SIGHT!


hehehe

Just kidding man! A little rat piss every once and awhile make me appreciate everything else. ;)

:cheers:

[QUOTE=miljnor]YOU MENTIONED B_d light on THIS THREAD???? YOUR BANNDED FROM THIS SIGHT!


Bud lite!!!!!!!!!! he should be banned from machine shops and made to work in a dress factory (just have fun)

:boxing: Hey, lol, i'm on fixed income.... u missed the XX part.... any guesses, good stuff... having some fun... :cheers:

:) Isn't this more fun than :boxing: .... lol gotta go

Lawdy!, This thread is still alive?

It's not really alive... more like the hops-n-barley zombie version ;)


Tiger

The reason i believe for the reputation of Chinese equipement is this: They have been asked to make it. Western buiseness people have gone there and requested they make the cheapest tool they can so more profit for the Western importer. Then turn around and use the comparison as some sort of proof of some meaningless argument.

They have been asked to make it.

I agree. Why do people shop at Wal-mart? Because they want to spend as little as possible on products. Where do these products come from? Definitely not the unionized factories of America.

So we demand cheap products, but then complain that the products are cheap. I guess the Chinese haven't figured out how to produce top quality products at dirt-cheap prices either. So you get poor quality products at dirt-cheap prices. Could we really do it any differently?

Dan

I'm not sure I completely agree with you on this issue. You can't lay the entire responsibility on the western retailers. True, they do want to get and sell the stuff as cheaply as possible. My boss in Chinese (from Beijing) and we have discussed this.

How long did it take you to become a master craftsman in the metal working trade? A few weeks, maybe a year (if your really gifted at it, then maybe a few years realistically)? Now, think of someone who comes here, spends a few years learning a trade like metalworking, in a language that is not his native one. Then he goes home and sets up a shop, teaching his employees a skill that he may only partially have mastered himself.

According to my boss it may take a generation (20 to 30 years) to build up enough master craftsmen in the metal working trade to actually be able to put out a good product.

As you know there are a few Chinese outfits that put out products that rival American for quality, but they are still very rare and end up being just as expensive as American made.

Also, when your just starting out and trying to make a name for yourself you don't necessarily charge top dollar for your product. However, once your established, one of my guitar making friends told me that if I want to increase my sales, as weird as it sounds, increase my prices. Then people will see the higher prices and think that I must make that much of a better instrument to warrant such prices. But you have to establish yourself first to get away with something like that.

We didn't invent the metal cutting industry. What makes you think they need to come here to learn the trades?

Dan

:cool: Wow this thread is still simmering?

Regarding Chinese imports and developing metal working trade, etc. First, be easy on me, I am very old. I want to share some very interesting insight on all this stuff.

I is much bigger than all this. Lets take a look at a few things. Lets pick a time in US history and see if we are in tune with truth or fiction. The civil war was fought because of a thing call States Rights, not Slavery, sure, Lincoln had to come up with something to increase the backing for his war effort, that is , licking the confederates.. (oh, did you know that there was articles of confederation before the constitution?..well, we were a confederation before we were a Union). Anyway, It was all about capitolism (sp?) The rich northern industrailist and the rich northern bankers and the international bankers (rothchilds) wanted to increase their holding and so war was the answer. There was much profit to be made from war... (Why do you think there is war today? Selling war materials has always been the reason for war) The world needed more war materials and faster. Faster ment more wealth. The south wanted the state to be prominant as the constitution said with the people being the root of power. So, as the rich north began to industrailize, they wanted to control a lot of the resource held by the south. The south wanted to be left alone and did not want the industrailists plan. It was the industrial might of the north that eventually defeated the south. The north could kill more men than the south could supply on the killing fields. States rights not Slavery as is taught in most schools. Production, Wealth, Control by indebtiness of the people. Wilson and Rossivelt were treasonious in what did to this country... They usured in the international bankers. What you see is not always what you should see.

When the economy (sp) gets slow or sluggish, the world bankers want it to churn, this is how they get more and more control of nations. In the US case, the Federal Reserve Bank is owned by international interists (sp). National banks are member banks and this is the front the present. Their main building built in the not so distant past is named the "Tower of Power."

What does this have to do with the chinese and the need to make things cheaper, well, you might not agree with me and that is ok. I feel it is because the Dollar is worthless. The currency act of 1798 specifically states that the US Dollar is to be 412 grains of 9/10 fine Silver. That act has never been changed.

Today, you have a note, a debt note, the Federal Reserve is owed the money you hold. Hince, the IRS, which is the collection agent for Federal reserve. Nuts, am I? Well, on the back of checks where i have paid my taxes was stamped "payable to the federal reserve in PAR." Par is gold. So, all the gold had to be collected and turned over to the Federal Reserve Bank, International bankers. You think Fort Knox is full of Gold, ha! Think on.

China was given the "most favored nation status" and with that came a lot of low interest loans from the US treasury....they got the money from the Federal Reserve Bank who had the Treasury print up the notes and it cost them 23 dollars for each 1000 bills printed. That is where inflation comes from, not any other source. China, being slow but sure, used the american business man's greed to take control of our nations economy. China took the loans and you kids will pay it all back and the profits made from the transactions with china, why, well, along came the dumping in america and the greedy businessman who wants to get richer.... Would the International bankers, the Fed, have allowed the deal with china unless the would profit, not on you life.

Now, The international bankers are several in number. They are essentially at war with each other to gain control of the worlds economy. China has joined the fight and is waging a very successful effort. Countries like North Korea, Iran, Syria, and so on are not playing the game. They are the targets of Capitalism, or the Ultra rich who want to control everyting. It is an obsession. China stole the craftmanship from us. I remember the junk dumped by japan in the us fifty plus years ago. Oh, do you believe the military has clean hands, Try researching what General Alfred Pike had to say about our troups....just canon fadder....

Machining, and all other crafts are simply tools to bring about more for less so the peoples of the nations can spend what little they have to get what the want. The basics in life are: Food, Shelter and protection. The world economy is based primarily on these things. Most other things are not so necessary. Maybe medical, but humanities ultimate survival is not based on much else. The rich got rich initially by as the Japanise said in world war II, on the back of the mule, the people the conquered.... So, learn your machining trades, invest in gold and silver, keep at least 6 months food reserves, and keep your portection plan up to date.

So, just and old man sharing with you about what is really happening...or at least what i think is happening. Every one should be able to make things, more craftsmen, less corperations. Is big mostly bad?

My opinion and not necessarily the opinion of others! Forgive me for the length... Be easy on me now... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Countries like North Korea, Iran, Syria, and so on are not playing the game.

Neither was Iraq, but I guess they are now. It's funny how all of the "Axis of Evil" countries are countries which are not controlled by the world banks.

Coincidence? Me thinks otherwise. :)

Dan

We didn't invent the metal cutting industry

May be not, but we do it damn well. And with our open door policy for any immigrant who wants to come here (legally or otherwise) they can work here, learn a trade, get paid well, and then run back home with everything they learned.

Getting back to my Chinese boss, he says he personally knows a number of Chinese people here who have that exact plan for learning how to set up a sucessful business when they return home.

We didn't invent the metal cutting industry, but we seem to be the model for the world.

A benevolent (sp) businessman knows that a dollar has to circulate thru 8 to 10 people before it leaves the community for an economy to prosper.

By directly importing a whatever, you export jobs as well as the technology and support technologies for same. Try to buy steel. It is mostly imported and the once good paying steel jobs are gone with them as well.

The "high tech" computer jobs are going/gone and lord knows what will be next. The auto industry is being explointed with the labor going south and now off shore. The engineering jobs are on their way to low cost producers.

The Delphi bankruptcy is the begining of the end for the auto workers. Visteon will be next debacle. The BIG 3 lost control when the executives gave away the store to ever so many unions so long ago. Any company that has a union, deserves one. But greed and stupiditity on BOTH sides set us up for waht we're in for now.

Ain't it strange that Toyota pays a good wage and benefits yet isn't unionized. How'd they do that??? And make top quality cars too, in the USA at comparable wages and NOT is sweat shops???

For every union excess that exists, a non-union corporate VP signed the contract which gave away the store. It was easier to acquiesce than to come to a FAIR and equitable term. Greed isn't good, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. We're coming to the harvest where a lot of livestock is going to slaughter because it isn't viable to farm them anymore.

There is a saying that goes, "how you going to keep them down on the farm once they've seen the city???" which can also be stated as "how you going to keep them on the farm, once they see the farm???"

Greed and corporate excess will be the ruination of this and any developed country. Laziness and social and CORPORATE welfare will do what corporate and social excess can't/won't take care of.

The reinstatement of the hard work, education is good and termination of the instant gratification/something for nothing ethic will be needed to turn things around. In the meantime, exported technology and jobs will spell the demise of the life styles most of us have become acustomed to.

I merely hope I'm not the one to turn out the lights... That is NOT going to be pretty....

Can cite what went wrong and I contributed to it and exploited it as much as anybody. Trick is, how do we turn it around??? How do we stop the madness??? It will take hard steps and some protectionism to do so. Will have to stem the flight of capital to the low cost producer which will only lead to even lower cost producting someplace else.

HOw do you get back to fair price for fair job for fair product that does not exploit somebody for the unfair gain of somebody??? Or screw or get screwed and move on???? It don't have to get THAT ugly but looks like it can and/will

HOw do we fix it???
When will it stop??? When they start exporting the VP level jobs to 3rd world countries who will do it for a fraction of what the VP's are doing it for.

I hear what your saying about jobs flowing out of the country.

And to make things worse. For those of you who haven't read the Kennedy-McCain bill in the US Senate I will summarize (since we are on the topic of jobs going offshore).

It doesn’t just give amnesty to the 11,000 illegal immigrants (that number is conservative, the head of WUNI, the Spanish language networked, once repotted it as closer to 25,000). It gives amnesty to their families and broadens the definition of family to include parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, etc. By the time were through your not only talking the illegals already here, but an additional 30,000 on top of that.

It also allows for completely unchecked immigration of skilled hi-tech people into the country. Kiss all the engineering, physics and chemistry jobs goodbye too. They will go to people who will work 10-hour days at a lower wage.

Now, on the other hand, I do have to say, if I were a young Mexican man trying to support a family, I would be the first in line to jump the fence. So I do sympathize with them. I just sympathize with the young American men trying to support their families more.

If you really want to know why all this financial turmoil is about us you have to go further back in history to a small island in the Aegean Sea called Patmos! There was a man on that island that received a revelation. In that revelation a prophecy was made that said that a one world government was coming. It came to power because of greed and one of the things this government did was cause all who wanted to buy or sell anything....well you can read it for yourself.

Others have posted on this thread asking not to be flamed, I don't really care about flaming I just don't want to get banned! :) jcledford0 spoke a lot of truth. How better to control people than control their commerce??

Mike

We didn't invent the metal cutting industry, but we seem to be the model for the world.

I doubt that.

I'm not saying that the US is poor at what they do, but they are hardly the best at it either.

Germany is more of a model than the US.

Dan

Germany is more of a model than the US.

If you look at density per land area of trained techs or High end products you would have to pick another country (maybe germany) but if you look at how many and how good the people in the industrial sector are, and how freely we diseminate the knowledge and training, I'm going with the U.S. on this one.

Since Big-guts will never go away here is another one

A freind sent this photo of a horrible highway accident in Germany. The
picture may be kind of hard to take for some of you. If you look
closely you can see what appears to be some survivors of the accident still in
the wreckage. Although the picture is quite graphic, it makes you
realize how quickly our loved ones can be taken from us. My friend
stayed on the scene to help and even though he performed mouth to
mouth on quite a few of them, none apparently survived.


I know its about beer! I am evil! :D

:cheers:

Since Big-guts will never go away here is another one

I know its about beer! I am evil! :D

:cheers:

That picture is like a crime against nature, or at least a crime against one of the things most men hold near and dear. It saddens me to look at it.

I can understand the shock and deep grief you feel looking at the picture. The beer is a Dutch brand and I think it tastes a little watery. So maybe you're looking at nature at work, selecting. It's never the less shocking to see what hazards our friends have to overcome to come to our house.

Carel

Carel,

Yes, I agree it is a bit watery, but it comes in a 16oz bottle for the same price as 12 oz of any other beer sold here. When your sitting in a bar being conservative with your drinks saving your money to ply some chick with drinks. Those extra 4 oz can add up :)

Then again it's nature, selecting. Beer should come in big bottles.

Carel

But then when your favorite is Moose drool all other beers are watery.

And since I have to go to montana to get it I get used to watered down beers.

Personaly I think all beers should be thick enough so you don't have to eat with them! :D

:cheers:

Life is but a great challange filled with tears,
Daily I struggle to overcome its greef with my beers
So many times we hear the crowds and their cheers
at the hands of those who hears.
Lift you containers and salute those enduring their lears