Hi

Has anyone noticed that Australian router design varies from the US in that the Australian routers universally have handles embedded into the casing?

On the other hand, US routers are normally a cylindrical casing that can be pulled out of the plunging chassis (with the handles therefore not being attached to the router casing).

Have a look at Ebay and just compare all the pictures. By looking at picture alone, I can tell if the router is a US router or an Aussie / UK router.

Trimmers in Australia are of the design I am referring to but trimmers are too small (400W), no variable speed and small collets.

The reason I mention it is that the US design lends itself far more easily toward attachment of a router onto a Z axis.

Has anyone else noticed this and how did you overcome it?

Andy

Has anyone else noticed this and how did you overcome it?

Andy

Order one from the US. :)

US 110v AU 240v

How about this one? http://www.internationaltool.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BOS0601617061&Category_Code=220V_Routers_Planers

Hi Andy
I know what you mean but you need to go and have a good look at them as a lot are suitable for mounting. The handles are a problem but depending on how you angle the router it might be possible. To get rid of the handles is a problem because the switch is usually located there but you might be able to remove one making mounting easier. Some do have collars for mounting and the others you could design a plate to fix to the router base.
Although it would not be big enough for you I found an Ozito variable speed (11,500 to 32,000) trimmer with 1/4 inch collet for $49 which hopefully will be good for my hobby CNC router.

I feel a right goof on this as I have designed with the assumption that US style routers are available!

I've been walking through Bunnings for ages pondering over the difference but had not taken my observation seriously enough and just assumed that I needed to look elswehere.

Thanks for the url Gerry (you are very resourceful).

Looks like I'll have to consider this aspect very carefully now as I want to design with flexibility in mind and not lock myself out just because my dream router turns out to have a switch on the handle :)

With CNC, there seems to be a devil behind just about every decision. :)


Andy

I've just recalled why I ignored Aussie style routers.

If it does not have a detachable baseplate, it makes for a very limited machine as the baseplate reduces the capacity to make angled cuts (think in terms of a 4wd and the entry / departure angle limitations caused by the front / back overhang)

A cylindrical router is much preferred as depth of reach is therefore a lot better.

I have allowed for 6 inch z travel which cannot be fully exploited if I have a router with a baseplate.

Seems like your url could be very useful Gerry. !!

Andy

Hi Andy,

Hope yu get this message as this is not a very active forum.
Aus is same as N.Z, all routers with plastic castings with handles. Only the small Ozita & Dewalt routers could be mounted to a CNC machine.
The good news the US style routers are available right here in Auckland, N.Z in small numbers.
The other day i came accross the Porter Routers at a power tool centre, they are 240volt models, very rare. The shop owner is very keen to get rid off them as there is No demand for US style routers in N.Z. How to get the routers to yu & have the shop owner sell them at a decent price is another battle.

Michael

I have been looking at a real cheap router at Super Cheap Auto. Made in China job but looks like it should be real easy to mount. Dual collet size and variable speed for less than $100NZ
Paul

Thanks for that input re. sourcing from the land of the long white cloud.

Options are starting to arrive but looks like I'll end up going offshore!

Thanks

Andy

I have a Chinese 8mm >> 1/4" vari/speed router that slips out of the base & you can hold it freehand like a die grinder. I got it from Bunnings cuppla years ago I think.. These would be easy to mount in a split housing collar on your CNC mill. Switch etc is on the end

Thanks for that input re. sourcing from the land of the long white cloud.

Options are starting to arrive but looks like I'll end up going offshore!

Thanks

Andy
Andy,
Just thought that as Super Cheap Auto is an Aussie company they may have the same on your side of the ditch.
I have since purchased this router. Its 650 Watt, can be mounted with a round collar and has a good long neck that extends from the router a conciderable amount. Stripped of the plunge mechagnisim (one screw) it looks similar to a lot of the US die grinders just router speeds.
Paul

Andy

I'm building a large CNC flatbed router machine, I found a GMC router that the cykinder comes free from base and the handles. It is 1450 watts. Perhaps larger than you are seeking.

Martin

Andy
I fitted the Ozito tonight and thought it might interest you.
The specs are in an earlier post and these cost $49 from Bunnings.

Just a quick note to confirm this annoying anomaly, I too have been searching NZ for a router WITHOUT handles, even removed, the cast housing bulges at the handle attachement point (one handle can be easily removed, but the other has the power cord running through it!), and I wouldnt want to void my warrantee on a NZ$600 Dewalt by butchering it. And yes, the laminate trimmers are too small, powerwise, and only 1/4 inch collet. (1/2 much better!)
If anyone knows a supply of a good router without handles, please post.
My CNC machine has horizontal y-axis rails, with limited room in between. (reason; hopefully going to support an a/b axis head in future, and need accuracy!?!?!?)
(Actually, I'd better re-read through the thread in case already mentioned! :O

:) Tony :)

Tony
A common problem. If you have a look at the post above yours you will see I fitted a cheap Ozito 1/4 inch router which was ideal for mouting on a CNC machine. 10 months later with over 500 hours of machine time and I have burnt out three of these units. I didn't expect wonders and i think they probably did what they were deisgned to do. It is harsh running up to three hours jobs on these budget untis. I have replaced it with a Milwaulkee die grinder and on another machine I have a Bosch die grinder so I will be able to compare units some time in the future.

Have a look at the die grinder range as they make some with a 20mm collet but the price does get a bit high. Generally the die grinder has more bearings in the spindle and most are variable speed in the 10,000 to 27,000 rpm range. The are made to hold in the hand so they are slim compared to the larger routers but usually quite a bit longer so you will need a lot of clearance vertically.

I am not recommending these people but it is all I could find to give you an example. I have the Bosch GGS27C and the Milwaulkee DG30QE. The Bosch GG56S has the 20mm collet and there are lots of examples on this forum of how to mount the long neck die grinder.

http://www.justtools.com.au/category15_1.htm

Rod,

You beat me to it!

I've just come back from UK and was told Bosch have just released the sort of router half of Australia seem to be NZ are looking for.

Try: http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=69308#.

Very, very expensive though!!!

Andy

Have a look at the Ozito from Bunnings and the Supercheap Auto router. Both can be stripped down to the moter and spindle very easily.
Both are less than $100 and have variable speed.
I went for the Supercheap one as it has 1/4 and 1/2 inch collets.
I used a Royobi trim router on my first machine (Mitre 10 Mega) Not bad but the collet leaves a lot to be desired and no speed control.
Paul

Hi blokes,
When I first started out I used a GMC router and got about 150 hours from the first set of brushes then, at $16 a set, about 30 - 40 hours out of the replacement ones and 1 always wears out much faster than the other. I ended up changing them out 6 times before I realised it wasn't cost effective but you could change them relatively easily. I then used a NRG router and got about 80 hours out of it before it started whining in the bearings. I now use a Makita trimmer but it hasn't got a variable speed on it so it screams all day long so the next one I will buy will have a variable speed control just to keep the noise at a neighbour tolerable level. It comes out at about the same price as all the other stuff put together and after around 110 hours it has little wear on the brushes........more cost effective in the long run. I nearly tried making some brushes from artists carbon sticks of varying hardness just to see if they would last longer on the cheaper models but never got the chance.
I like the Millwakee die grinder at
http://www.justtools.com.au/prod366.htm
and will probably purchase one of these for the next router.
On my small router I fitted a model plane brushless 3 phase permanent magnet motor ($210 all up) which works quite well for small jobs but is lacking in speed at only 9,800 rpm and gets quite hot. I am going to the computer repair store to get a CPU fan to attatch to the shaft on top to aid in cooling. I have run this one for over 4 hours straight with a temp of 64 deg C and it still works great. No bloody brushes to change and NO SCREAMING noise all hours of the day. Now I just have to find one that does 15-20 K revs with suitable horse power and I will be set.
Just to finish off, don't waste money on cheap stuff to start with as when you DO eventually upgrade you will have to make a new mount as well (unless your lucky)
Hope this helps
The Neuron

Hi

Has anyone noticed that Australian router design varies from the US in that the Australian routers universally have handles embedded into the casing?

On the other hand, US routers are normally a cylindrical casing that can be pulled out of the plunging chassis (with the handles therefore not being attached to the router casing).

Have a look at Ebay and just compare all the pictures. By looking at picture alone, I can tell if the router is a US router or an Aussie / UK router.

Trimmers in Australia are of the design I am referring to but trimmers are too small (400W), no variable speed and small collets.

The reason I mention it is that the US design lends itself far more easily toward attachment of a router onto a Z axis.

Has anyone else noticed this and how did you overcome it?

Andy
Dont!
First, hand held routers are brush motors, noisy & wear out.
2nd. The shaft/bearings is not substantial, except for real HD routers. Not meant for travels of 30" minute or more.
3rd. will not run at slower speeds for Large dia. tool tips.
> I am trying to solve this dilemma w/o spending a quoted $5k!
I want to mill alumin. as well as woodworking & cannot locate a spindle motor that will accomodate my ER32 collet chuck (MT3).
So far, no go!
Anyone with a clue???

We had this same problem when we built our router.

Over a year ago we purchased a US Milwaukee HD Router 1/2 collet and then purchased a 240V - 110V transformer. The router is excellent and has done over 1000 hours, no problems.

We cut Marine Plywood/MDF form 4mm to 18mm at speeds up to 10,000mm per min (400 in/min). We slow the feeds down when we cut the thicker material.

The Milwaukee router is very good.

cheers

Frans (Moondog)

Ok,
Thanks, but that router wont do for metalwork (unless U r making hobby stuff - 6mm endmilling etc).
Doesnt solve the prob of mounting the ER32 collet chuck either!

Well you can't have it both ways you either want a mill or you want a router/spindle. :D

If you want to do serious metal removal then convert a mill and use the existing mill spindle. The cutting envelope will not be big enough for most wood projects and the spindle speeds will be too slow as well.

If your main purpose is wood then a router or die grinder is the go. As you have found out commercial spindles are expensive and out of range of the hobbiest. I have found the Milwaukee brand very good as well and if you get a die grinder they have extra bearing in the head to take heavier loads.

The only other alternative that I know of is to make your own spindle or use the head of a Taig or Seig X1 or X2. Little Machine Shop sell the later and they have a MT3 spindle. Weight will be a problem by the time you lash up a motor.

By the way I use a Gantry Router and regularly cut aluminum 10mm thick in multiple passes of 0.5mm and at 600mm/min with a 500watt Milwaukee die grinder. It is not like you have to do anything except watch it cut.

Let us know how you get on.

Ok,
Thanks, but that router wont do for metalwork (unless U r making hobby stuff - 6mm endmilling etc).
Doesnt solve the prob of mounting the ER32 collet chuck either!


If you are wanting to do both Wood (High RPM) and Metal (Low RPM) your only option is to purchase a HSD spindle such as a perske etc. Var speed up to 20,000+ rpm. These will accomodate ER32 collets. For a 5hp(min) your will need to spend at least $5K++++.

You can't have it both ways without spending money. If you only want to cut Metal look at an induction type motor setup such as used on Milling machines. that is your cheapest option. Again, no good for routing timber.

Go and spend the money...

cheers

Frans

We had this same problem when we built our router.

Over a year ago we purchased a US Milwaukee HD Router 1/2 collet and then purchased a 240V - 110V transformer. The router is excellent and has done over 1000 hours, no problems.

We cut Marine Plywood/MDF form 4mm to 18mm at speeds up to 10,000mm per min (400 in/min). We slow the feeds down when we cut the thicker material.

The Milwaukee router is very good.

cheers

Frans (Moondog)

Hi Frans,

I'm very interested in trying your approach for a Router. I'm heading over to the USA in the next few weeks and would like to get a Hitachi M12VC router and use a 240V to 110V stepdown transformer but had the following questions;

- what model of Milwaukee do you have?
- what brand and rating of stepdown are you using?
- how do I calculate the correct stepdown to use for the Hitachi?
- Is the fact that they are still 60Hz an issue here, I guess they just run at a different speed?
- Is it still running well?

Thanks

Claudio

Hello Claudio.

The Router is the Milwaukee HD Router model 5625-29.. 3.5HP variable speed.

With regard to the stepdown transformer we had to have one made. I think that was around $450.00.

The router is still going as good as the day we put it in.

Overall, it will probably se you back $800 - 900..

cheers

Frans

Thanks for the Frans. The Milwaukee looks like a very solid and powerful router.

I was hoping the stepdowns weren't that much. I think the Hitachi is only 11A 2 1/4 horse power and the Milwaukee is 15A 3 1/2 horse power so I might only need a slightly less powerful stepdown.

I found a thread in the Electronics section that talked at length about using 60Hz 110V products in Europe 220V and some issues which might be experiences (ie. heat, reduced speed, etc).

Interesting read.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19877

Claudio

Have a look at Jaycar - Australia for a stepdown transformer, however I think their biggest 240 - 110 stepdown is 1000VA which translates to about 9 amps @ 110 volts (I think).

Richard

Western Australia

Hi Richard,

I did see that model but it's just a little too small I think.

I also found this company and have sent an email to them to see which one would be suitable for what I'm after.

http://www.tortech.com.au/

Claudio

Here's the question I sent to Tortech and the reply I got;

---
I was wanting to power a USA Wood Router as per the link below and was wondering what stepdown transformer would be suitable.

http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/cutter/km12vc/km12vc.html

---

Thank you for your enquiry.

The calculations are:
115 x 11 =1265 /.8 =1581 va

Our part SD115-1500 will be the correct unit.

Advise if you need handles?

Pricing: $385+GST

Tony
A common problem. If you have a look at the post above yours you will see I fitted a cheap Ozito 1/4 inch router which was ideal for mouting on a CNC machine. 10 months later with over 500 hours of machine time and I have burnt out three of these units. I didn't expect wonders and i think they probably did what they were deisgned to do. It is harsh running up to three hours jobs on these budget untis. I have replaced it with a Milwaulkee die grinder and on another machine I have a Bosch die grinder so I will be able to compare units some time in the future.

Have a look at the die grinder range as they make some with a 20mm collet but the price does get a bit high. Generally the die grinder has more bearings in the spindle and most are variable speed in the 10,000 to 27,000 rpm range. The are made to hold in the hand so they are slim compared to the larger routers but usually quite a bit longer so you will need a lot of clearance vertically.

I am not recommending these people but it is all I could find to give you an example. I have the Bosch GGS27C and the Milwaulkee DG30QE. The Bosch GG56S has the 20mm collet and there are lots of examples on this forum of how to mount the long neck die grinder.

http://www.justtools.com.au/category15_1.htm

Hi Rod,

I took your advice you posted a while back and checked out some die grinders today and apart from the ones you have I found the following;

Metabo GE700 - 710watt, 7000 to 27000 RPM, 1/4" collet, long neck $399

http://www.metabo.com.au/metabo/handgefuehrte/au/en/produkte/diegrinders/710wattelectronicdiegrinderge700_6_06303_19.html

I was also just flicking through the Metabo catalogue and came across their router motor

FME 737 - 710watt, 10000 to 27000 RPM, 1/4" collet, short neck ~$349 (at www.northwesttools.com.au)

http://www.metabo.com.au/metabo/handgefuehrte/au/en/produkte/routersrouterandgrindermotors/710wattelectronicrouterandgrindermotorfme737_6_00737_00.html

Both are made in Germany.

They both look like suitable candidates (apart from the long neck one) along with the Bosch and Milwaukee.

I'm still planning the build of my Joes CNC but thought I should look for a suitable spindle before I get too far down the track.

Claudio

Just got pricing from Northside Power Tools in Geebung (07) 3265 6388

Metabo FME737 $280
Metabo GE700 $341 (long neck)
Milwaukee DG30QE $220 (current special)

All inc GST.

The FME737 seems like a great little option at 710w, 10K to 27K RPM, short neck, made in Germany. The DG30QE

The GE700 runs at 7K to 27K RPM so I don't know if the lower speed will come in handy for cutting aluminium or other materials?

Rod and others, what spindle speed and table speed do you normally cut your various materials at?

Claudio

Hi Claudio,
I like the specs and price of the Metabo FME737.
With out being smart what you have asked is a bit like how long is a piece of string.
Feeds , speeds and depth of cut are difficult to define because of the variable nature of materials and the size of cutter you are using.
Generally plastics at lowest speed fastest feed, aluminum low to mid speed and medium feed, timber at high speed and mid to fast speed. The routers do not have a speed indicator so it is a case of running the job and listening for the cutter to come on song by manually adjusting feed or router speed.
I would not be concerned about the difference between the lowest speed of the Metabo verse Milwaukee.
Hope that is of some small help to you.

Hi Rod,

I guess I was looking for the simple answer, when there really isn't one.

I should figure it all out when I build the machine and start cutting, but your guidelines will help take some of the guess work out of it so thanks for your input.

I thought you might like the FME737!

Claudio