coolent harmful to breath in?

It can definately be an irratant in mist (steam) form. As for chronic health problems, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine doing it for years will undoubtedly have adverse affects, just like anything else.

I'd give a big YES!!
Especially in a mist. I'm sure there are those that
are safer than others.
I always make it a habit to read all data sheets.

PEACE :D

Some are. I worked at a shop for almost 12 years and they decided to change coolant brands to save money. After a few months or so I started having problems breathing and had to go to the hospital for testing. I was coughing up blood and when I sneezed it was like a geyser of blood spray. There were 2 or 3 other guys having problems too, although not as severe. It only affected 4 people out of 100 or so. Upon further checking of the M.S.D.S.'s, I found that the coolant when heated from heavy milling turned to steam, and gave off formaldyhide gas which is highly toxic. As soon as I informed the company what was going on they changed back to the original coolant and denied the findings about the formaldyhide gas, essentially covering their asses financially. Lovely people they were. Were... as in I quit shortly thereafter.
JD

I went to a doctor a few years ago after machining graphite for months, alergies. (I'm not even alergic to poison ivy, let alone graphite!) He said it's completely inert, but after seeing the dust that was EVERYWHERE in the shop, I decided I didn't need a layer of that stuff coating my lungs... :rolleyes:

'Rekd teh graphite buggers!

So what kind do you guys use? I use Trim E-190. I don't know that much about it, but I swear it's not that good for me.

Some coolants can give you skin problems (dermatites?). The inhalation of the mist can make you sick, especially if there is already some degree of bacteria growth in the coolant.
During my apprenticeship i worked on a surface grinder with old coolant, well i had "gippo guts" for 3 days!!!

Klox

gippo guts?

Rekd it's South African slang for diarroea!

Klox

I've seen a row of Milling Machines with one guy getting a cold and you could guarantee it would work it's way down the line as the coolant was shared between machines. The guys were coughing and spitting in the coolant *eeew* which is close to body temperature and so a good breeding ground/ carrier for bacteria and viruses (virii?).

Got the itch!!! Ive been plaged with reacouring skin itch rash dermitites ect for over two years Coolant ,solvent, kerosean, WD40, oil new, or used everthing seem's to bother hand's crack and bleed sometimes. One doctor sugested I changed job's Self employed Like that's going to happen .Med's help knock it down but when I quite It's back If anybody has a sugestion { Coolant brand } I would Be greatfull . Thank's KLT

Got the itch!!! Ive been plaged with reacouring skin itch rash dermitites ect for over two years Coolant ,solvent, kerosean, WD40, oil new, or used everthing seem's to bother hand's crack and bleed sometimes. One doctor sugested I changed job's Self employed Like that's going to happen .Med's help knock it down but when I quite It's back If anybody has a sugestion { Coolant brand } I would Be greatfull . Thank's KLT

Have you tried Shell Dromus B? It is a water mixable coolant used at a dilution of between 1 in 10 to 1 in 15.

I have had problems breathing in the spray coolant, then I found the night shift had taken it from the big machines! So I mixed my own batch every morning! Even if I did a job on the bridgeport that required a flood, I would never use the slop from the automatic machines! Yuck! :nono:
Eric

We use Blasocut 2000 universal in our shop of approx. 14 cnc machines and a couple of manual machines. Its made by Blaser Swisslube. I don't know of anyone in the shop complaining about the smell or irritants or skin problems and we have been using it for over 15 years. What irks me is lately they put pedestal grinders at each cnc with scotchbrite wheels and the fibers get everywhere. I had the safety team look into it but they say its ok.

Got the itch!!! Ive been plaged with reacouring skin itch rash dermitites ect for over two years Coolant ,solvent, kerosean, WD40, oil new, or used everthing seem's to bother hand's crack and bleed sometimes. One doctor sugested I changed job's Self employed Like that's going to happen .Med's help knock it down but when I quite It's back If anybody has a sugestion { Coolant brand } I would Be greatfull . Thank's KLT

I work milling plastics a lot we've had skin probs and are pointing a finger at the PVC and Acrylic we m/c a lot so I'm still suspicious!

however going back to quality coolant definately helps now - we're on Castrol Hysol now, some of that cheap stuff needs a much bigger mix ratio of oil so they don't end up saving that much sometimes.

the coolant oil may cost twice as much but if it needs thee times the mix ratio it's daft IMHO.

folks don't damage your health if you can possibly help it. maybe tip off the Health n saftey it you're in a bad shop. keep anomous mind!

another device that can be fitted for enclosed machines is a large fan type device to suck out the mist - or a lot of it as the guard/door is opened - open door a foot or so - extraction kicks in for say 10 seconds and sucks most of mist out goes through a filter type thing to remove/recover coolant

few seconds extra at end of cycle and quite a few bucks mind.

Extrtaction is definately a good idea. I got an FC500 from Air Cleaning Systems coupled up to a big elephant trunk hose it pretty much takes all the crap away from the tool, including fumes. Here's their Webite http://www.acs-ltd.com/newsite/public/index.htm

Kevin... you're not wearin plastic gloves by any chance are you? what happens is the proteins in the latex,or whatever they're made of, can cause an allergic reaction- I know the symptoms and they sound exactly as you describe- chapped hands with cuts in the creases of your fingers that don't heal. I've had this and swapped to Low Protein Gloves.

We were advised by Health and Safety to use a Lanolin based hand cream, but try holding onto lenses (which I machine) with slippy hands :) Ooops! that's another one that hit the floor hehe!

My friend got reeeeaaally allergic to coolant. He couldn't even touch the machines if they weren't clean enough! :o

--Sven

Got the itch!!! Ive been plaged with reacouring skin itch rash dermitites ect for over two years Coolant ,solvent, kerosean, WD40, oil new, or used everthing seem's to bother hand's crack and bleed sometimes. One doctor sugested I changed job's Self employed Like that's going to happen .Med's help knock it down but when I quite It's back If anybody has a sugestion { Coolant brand } I would Be greatfull . Thank's KLT
Use a good quality barrier cream preferably one that isn't lanolin based. Also look a what you wash your hand with. Used to get this problem and found out it was the soap that the company supplied.

Got the itch!!! Ive been plaged with reacouring skin itch rash dermitites ect for over two years Coolant ,solvent, kerosean, WD40, oil new, or used everthing seem's to bother hand's crack and bleed sometimes. One doctor sugested I changed job's Self employed Like that's going to happen .Med's help knock it down but when I quite It's back If anybody has a sugestion { Coolant brand } I would Be greatfull . Thank's KLT

All the mechanics in work wear cheap disposable latex gloves. Might be an idea.

....Unless your also allergic to latex?

:)

After some health issues, research and pressure on the management finally there is some mist removers being installed. We run water soluable coolant with some 12 and 15k spindles that create alot of mist.

Check out this link I found, It will make you think.

http://nycosh.org/specific_industries/machine.html

when ive read the WHIMIS on the side of the barrels of every different coolant i ve worked with says it may contain carsogens (i know what that means)
i d prefer not to think about it concidering the amount of time i spend inside the machine , i know ive been breathing in too much mist when i can taste it, which is quite often ,

when i first started out as an operator and worked on a lathe with a 45 sec cycle , i woke up a few nites completely unable to beath , and had a coughing fit for 20 minutes after

and they say smoking is gonna kill me !!

Use a good quality barrier cream preferably one that isn't lanolin based. Also look a what you wash your hand with. Used to get this problem and found out it was the soap that the company supplied.

I'll second that about the soap, we used to use the citrus stuff with the little granules/bits in, which did a great job of shifting the grime but pretty definatly gave some of us cracked knuckles esp during the winter,

we just use some liquid soap now - much less harsh

for me the problem went away

Pat

We use Blasocut 2000 universal in our shop of approx. 14 cnc machines and a couple of manual machines. Its made by Blaser Swisslube. I don't know of anyone in the shop complaining about the smell or irritants or skin problems and we have been using it for over 15 years. What irks me is lately they put pedestal grinders at each cnc with scotchbrite wheels and the fibers get everywhere. I had the safety team look into it but they say its ok.

I also use Blasocut, good coolant, but!!.. refresh if it becomes "greasy".. it should feel "soapy"..

we did a test once, with old coolant, and you'd be surprised to see that "bunch 'a' flowers in that Petri-dish after just 2 days...

one thing.. DON'T ever machine Cast Iron on a machine with Blasocut.. it will instantly RUIN your coolant..it 'll create a smell that'll make a skunk sick..(like an open sewer )

in the occasional event i have to machine cast iron, i either tape off all openings to the Coolant tank, or refresh coolant right after the job is finished ( depending off course on the "age" of the coolant )

coolent harmful to breath in?

Is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear...Well you know the rest.

Some coolants give me really bad dermatitis.

In one shop I worked at it got so bad that I was raw and bleeding up to my elbows.

Couldn't quit at the time so I ended up coating my arms in vaseline up to the elbows and wearing nitrile gloves up to the wrist. Wash arms off every break and re-apply vaseline. It helped.

I've since had "light" reactions at some shops, one place I had to go to ER and get a steroid shot, Face was completely swollen. Laid out for a couple of days to let go down and was careful after that. Eventually I adjusted and didn't get the reaction. That happens with most coolants, slight reaction that goes away.

I always keep a common household fan on my bench blowing the mist away from my breathing area. Works for farts too.:p

My friend got reeeeaaally allergic to coolant. He couldn't even touch the machines if they weren't clean enough! :o

--Sven

Me too!

I broke out with dermatitis all over my hands and arms. Had to cover all exposed skin and use barrier cream and latex gloves. I looked like a surgeon operating on a machine.

Blaser swisslube is NOT safer on skin.

I've used several different water soluble oils, so far I've only found one that gave me problems, Rustlick 50/50. If it gets on my skin and sits there for a few seconds before I can wipe it off, I develop a rash instantly.

Xcranker
Thanks for the link that really opened my eyes. I have always been sensitive to some coolants. The link is exellent fire power to go to the boss.

The shop I work at, I'm not sure which is worse, the air borne coolant, mist, or the air borne dust from the cast iron. I know for a fact that the electronics do NOT like the slightly conductive dust. But I guess along with the machine parts, the people are replacable as well. They are having a ventalation system but in next month, during shut down, that will make things A LOT better. I don't know how much money they are spending, I think around twenty thousand, but, they also decided to drop fifeteen grand on lighting as well. Things are getting better.

I just started at a shop that is in the process of changing from organic coolant to a synthetic. and I am not sure which one is giving me dermatitis but I think I will be able to get it under control with the advice and help that you all have put into the thread. thanks a lot. new to machining

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/98-116.pdf

This is a good read if you're concerned about exposure to MWF's

I always wore a mask in the shop- I remember the first day in my last place I put on my mask and the supervisor came over trying to convince me I didn't need it- the grime at the end of the day said otherwise: it's not absolute protection against coolant but it is better than none.

I worked in a shop where one operator spit in the coolant. I refused to run any machine he had been on. He ran my machine for about a month while I was in the office. When I came back the first thing I did was dump the coolant and flush the entire machine with bleach.

The above mentioned slob was the only one in the shop with dermatitis. Any guess as to why?

I will try to add a few things on this


OK I worked for the past 11 years in a plant where we had 45 machines running MWF all were water based cost is a big factor on coolants do not let anyone tell you different .I was the Health and Safety Rep on the Floor and Chair person for the committee for 6 years and a member for 3 on the committee for a total of 9 years

First if you are to use one make sure that there is no BIOcides in the coolant
biocides are the bad stuff
2 One should not blow the coolant with air you really do not want to brake up the coolant that small if you see any jelly or mold in the coolant change it up ASP and use the proper cleaner that the supplier has for that product ,using bleach may not kill all the live stuff in the coolant.
The proper cleaner will have some type of Acid in it and you will need to run the cleaner for about 2 hours or more depends on the manufacturer recommendation. then run just water in the system right after



(Testing of Coolant ) this was a free service for us you need to just ask for it
Make sure that the coolant is tested weekly for proper percentage of water to mix where I worked it was only 3% .Remember that the water will evaporate at a much fast rate then the Mix t so after some time you could end up with a too strong of mix in the tank. Again check with the supplier about this
When you have the coolant checked they look for a lot of different things

they look at TDS (Total dissolved solids) in the coolant you will get some of the metal you are cutting so fine that it will stay in the coolant

Oil in the coolant , bacteria, PH ,and the concentration of the mix . they will give an report on what to do to get it back to spec

Have your maintenance check and make sure all oil lines are in good working order, lube oil and Hyd oil will kill the coolant and also kill the tooling ,and also add smoke into the air and into your lungs .

Lube oil when heated can give off up to 6 known Carcinogenics. depending on the make of oil

The government said it is safe to have up to 5ppm in 1 cubic meter of air but there has never been a test to show this most manufacturers of the stuff will not let their employees work in that kind of environment.

The CAW and the UAW have been working for years to have the amount of coolant in the air dropped to 1ppm but so far it has been an up hill battle.

Most if not all Safety Data say to use some type of Exhaust at the machine to remove the coolant form the work area ,if your employer was anything like ours they said that the plant air exhaust was good enough.

Have you ever looked at the fans if you have one around you ,on how they are caked up with a film that's coolant you breath that in every day if you feel that there is to much coolant I will bet you your employer will say its safe because we are not over the Government guide lines.

Every Employer (at least here in Canada) must supply PPE's to all workers.

So the PPE you should be using is Safety Glasses and if needed a mask, add a long rubber or vinyl Apron to keep the coolant offof you .

You can try to use a long vinyl glove but if you get coolant in the glove it could be much worse. the gloves need to have an elastic cuff
I guess in the long run there really is not a safe MWF out there you have to pick the best of them for you and work as safe as you can with them.
At our plant we used a cheep coolant for years ,we on the safety committee asked to have it removed we had 65 people with some type of coolant reaction .

We asked a company to come in and show us there product since it was a synthetic coolant with no bio sides in it .They gave us 2 45 Gal drums and we cleaned out the machines with there rep there and mixed as prescribed and tried it for one month. We found that there was a drop in the number of people with reactions to the coolant the coolant did not mix with the oil as the other the oil would float on the top and get skimmed away.
The Company agreed with us and used this product in the plant for the pasted 10 years it cost about 2Xs as much but it worked out beaning cheaper in the long run

If you want to know about your coolant ask your employer for a copy of MSDS sheet . it has to be displayed for all to see some where in the place of work . You can check out the product online at the web site of the coolant manufacture

I hope this help out a little email me if you need more information


MWF=Metal Working Fluid

JohnBrauweiler
Certified Health & Safety Level 1 & 2 CAW

at my shop where i work we changed coolant recently ,and this stuff smells like "poo" or a urinal that has NEVER been cleaned,and i am NOT exaggerating!
we used "Hangsterfers" and altho it didnt seem very "slick" to the touch (that may have been due to improper mix ratio) it did however NEVER have this "so full of bacteria your eyes burn" smell to it
i cant remember the name of the coolant we are using now i think it may be "Valcool" . the concentrate has a sort of "fishy"smell to it and a deep dark blue color,or a light blue tint when mixed. i had put off changing my coolant from (what was left of my Hangsterfers coolant) to the new brand because i knew it would stink ,as it had in EVERY one else s machines (i generally run a cnc tool room type lathe or a 12 station turning center by the way)
so one day i mentioned i was wanting to add some coolant (all i had added for months was pure water) and so i decided to mention it to the maintenance guy he said "oh no, the new coolant is not supposed to be bad if it is mixed right" and so we flushed the whole system cleaned the tank and all ,
i will have to admit ,the new coolant smelled better at first,it was nice being able to see "thru" the coolant and it was cleaner on the machines windows than the older "milky" coolant i had been adding water to . but about a month later it started to stink ..and now if the machine sits for more than a few hours with out the pump running it will smell awful !!

we had some guy come and take samples of it from the coolant company and he came back a few weeks later with some cleaner to add to it to make it "all better" ..well as far as i can tell this "cleaner" does absolutely nothing ,every one hates the coolant but its not the owners fault , i belive he hates it as much as we do so ...

what to do now is there any "off the shelf stuff that can be added to our coolant that will not totally destroy our machines? bleach will make them rust for example,as will plain chlorine tablets.. so is there any other stuff that cam be used effectively to get rid of the stink .? and as a side note this stuff HAS to have BAD STUFF rowing in it which is bad to be around ...so what can kill all the "baddies" and give us good coolant again??

sorry this post is soooo long winded BTW :) :)

I have a product that has not really been discovered by many I will be up to speed with it in the next 2 weeks, I have been using it for some months now

The cutting fluid is Biodegradable, Non-Toxic, Fireproof 100% synthetic, This never goes bad in any way & never needs to be changed, You just top up your tank with mix when needed,

......HAS to have BAD STUFF rowing in it which is bad to be around ...so what can kill all the "baddies" and give us good coolant again??

sorry this post is soooo long winded BTW :) :)

You cannot kill all the "baddies" but you can limit their growth.

The baddies that make the foul smell are bacteria that live on the sulfur compounds in lube oil in the absence of oxygen; the smell is from sulfide compounds made by these bacteria. They cannot live in the presence of oxygen so the first thing is to make sure the coolant is thoroughly oxygenated. One way is have a tee in the coolant line so that some coolant can be bypassed straight back to the tank through a spray nozzle and run the coolant pump for an hour or so every day. Couple this with getting all the tramp oil out; which is easier said than done because for skimmers to work the coolant has to be very still for several hours and this is contradictory to the aeration using the pump.

My approach was to let the tank sit for several days so I could skim the oil off then periodically aerate it for several days.

However I have to admit that I broke down and bought the expensive solution; an external coolant filter/oil trap which I installed about a month ago. It seems to be working but when I say expensive I mean it; $3600.:eek:

Geof if you use this new stuff I have been trying out you do not get any bacteria growth, & never have to change it.

You don't need to aerate it ether

what I said in the post above was only a little of what this coolant can do it also eats the tramp oil which is a problem in some machines, the only problem with this is when it is eating the tramp oil it is using it's self up so you have to replenish it with adding more coolant mix

Is this the stuff that comes from a company in Canada, near Calgary or Edmonton?

Hi Geof you got it, the name of the company is Lube Corp manufacturing & are in Alberta
The product name for the cutting fluid is GreenCut if you want a contact person PM me & I will give it to you, once you have used this you will never go back to any other cutting oil's/fluid's of the past.

For any US sales anybody can contact PM me