I was busy the last couple days, drawing a new CNC, I have thought about what the flaws were on a Diy Pipe rail system most of us build in wood/MDF.

I will be using a torsion box system, and also nave a new twist, by adding an extra Pipe rail on the long Axis. I think this will help alot on the twisting and rocking of the Gantry.

Here are pictures of my drawings.

Very nice Joe!

I had wondered about using dual pipes as well. When are you going to build it? I can't wait to see how the dual pipe setup works out for you.

I have already started Cutting the Gantry Ribs, I will post as mant picstures as I can as it comes together, I'm Hopping to have it By the end of this Year and ready for 2006, Hence the name Model 2006.

Joe

What are the overall dimensions and the cutting area going to be?

Nice looking drawings Joe.

That is an interesting idea about the dual rail. Might be a bugger to align although. Since the pipes are fixed, how do you get all eight bearings per rail to touch the pipes? I guess the answer is measure twice, cut once.

Steve

Edit: I just noticed that you do not have any cross bracing inside your big box. I hope this is just a drawing feature.

Looks good Joe. What program did you use to draw it with?

Everything will be cut on the CNC, And then when I finish it I will Level the Top cutting surface with a wide Bit, Mill it to the machine, this is the best way I can think of for this type of machine to be perfect Level with itself.

I have 4 1/4" drill holes on each side of the bottom cross pieces, I will either run a threaded rod through it all the way placing nuts and washers along the way which will take a while for two rods on the sides, or i will add cross pieces stagered the length of the machine and then final two holes on each side will be bolted to the front and rear plates. ( i designed it with all the holes to allow for this. Also the whole machine will be mostly bolted with very little MDF drilled and tapped.

thanks, Joe

Nice looking drawings Joe.

That is an interesting idea about the dual rail. Might be a bugger to align although. Since the pipes are fixed, how do you get all eight bearings per rail to touch the pipes? I guess the answer is measure twice, cut once.

Steve

Edit: I just noticed that you do not have any cross bracing inside your big box. I hope this is just a drawing feature.

1st set of parts cutout, the Gantry Rib section.

All of a sudden I see the need to rethink the design I was going to use.

I was initially plann1ng 8020 stock for the x and y rails. Carlnpa has had good results with the 8020. The x rail was going to be a double rail with a wood stiffener like joes (which I actually saw someone esle do that same thing on their machine out here), the y was going to be attached to a plywood bottom with a 1" tube steel subframe. Kind of like the old steel legged butcherblock coffee table an old girlfriend of mine used to have. (This was back in the 80's when that coffee table design was popular). But I think joes would be easier in the long run and probably more stable than mine too.

might be even stiffer with 1" drill rod rather than the pipe. But that would really add to the cost and weight big time.

Excellent design work. Thanks for the great ideas Joe.

An idea i I have been kicking around though that might add more stiffness to it is; run a hole and small bolt through the black pipe directly in between where the skate bearings track and into the ribs. You have to be careful to make sure the skate bearings don't catch on the bolt. This may lock the whole thing together tighter.

Looks good Joe. What program did you use to draw it with?

thanks, I used Solidworks, have it on my laptop from work.

Joe

At the rate you built your other machine I think you should call it Model 2006.

What are the overall dimensions and the cutting area going to be?

Working it out in cadd it is 49.5" x 25.5" x 6.25" so lets say 49x25x6...

Yes it is going together alot fasted that i thought, and also i should have my Acme 1/2-10 leadscrews, 1/2-10 nuts, and 3/4" Z axis drill rod shafts on monday, I have already recieved my 1/2" bearings....

Joe

Looks awesome Joe. I can't wait to see your table. That thing should be nice and stiff.

Joe,

At the rate your going, maybe you should have named it "CNC Model 2006". It looks great so far.

Alan

Joe,

At the rate your going, maybe you should have named it "CNC Model 2006". It looks great so far.

Alan

Well Hope to get it finished real soon....

Gantry Upper Torsion Box...

Motor and Leadscrew Bearing Mounting plates, which will hold the Pipe rails also...

Gantry Lower Torsion Box and Gantry Rt Side.....

Joe,

while you posting can you throw out some of the dimensions your using, like pipe spacing for the long y-axis runs. Any other dimensions would be great too. What would really be great if it wouldn't be to much trouble would be to post your drawings for the pieces as you build them like the gantry rib parts etc.

I'm thinking of trying to build the same type of machine as you go along. The main difference is that I'm looking at a 31 x x48 cutting area, and I'm going with plywood which I think would be a bit stronger in the long run.

Thanks
Steven

Joe,

while you posting can you throw out some of the dimensions your using, like pipe spacing for the long y-axis runs. Any other dimensions would be great too. What would really be great if it wouldn't be to much trouble would be to post your drawings for the pieces as you build them like the gantry rib parts etc.

I'm thinking of trying to build the same type of machine as you go along. The main difference is that I'm looking at a 31 x x48 cutting area, and I'm going with plywood which I think would be a bit stronger in the long run.

Thanks
Steven

This machine is using the 1" x 60" Gas Pipe (Y Axis) 4"o.c., 3/4" x 36" Gaspipes (you could just extend it out the 12" width on the X Axis But Will add more weight, just add another motor and slave it on the Y-Axis to move the gantry.

Which Gives me an Idea and Possibly a question to pose can you slave two motors, such as Y-Axis and another A-Axis and place them on each end of one Lead screw But Just Reverse the A-Axis Motor I would think this would double your torge???

Joe

I had already recieved my 1/2" inside dia. bearings for the acme 1/2-10 leadscrews i ordered. (you could use 1/2"-13 standard thread also but I want to maximize speed), So i drew up a Leadscrew Bearing Support which has same bolt pattern as the Nema 23 motors.

Well I got tiered of using a wrench and nut to clamp down my parts so I made a few of these, Knobs like that with 1/4" thread inside are almost $3.00 at the hardware store (must be proud of them or something) so i made a few of my own.

Here is a picture of some and also the g-code if people want to make their own, (.25 end mill 3/4" stock) Rename the *.Zip ext. to *.Tap can not upload the file otherwise.

Got the Z Axis Carriage done, I think i pushed my HP motors to their limit, I cut these at 40ipm with no problem.

Z Axis Carriage assembled, will have 4 - 1/4" threaded rod through sides, top and bottom to make sure the pressure of the bearings on rails do not start to push assembly apart.

I got my 1/2"-10 acme threaded rods, and my 36" drill rods (i cut them to the proper lenght)

I desided to use the same type of Anti-backlash nuts I made for the 5/16" rod and nuts.. so here is its big brother....

recieved my LoveJoy couplers today to go from the 1/4" Motor shafts to the 1/2"-10 Leadscrews, These things are tough to put together...

Here is a look at the gantry so far...

Joe, are you bolting the sides onto the torsion boxes? Or using threaded rod? I ran 6 pieces of 1/4-20 threaded rod through the whole thing and I'm pretty sure it's responsible for a lot of the gantry strength. You can buy big 10ft pieces at Home Depot for less than $3 a piece. At my local HD it was near the electrical conduit.

Joe, are you bolting the sides onto the torsion boxes? Or using threaded rod? I ran 6 pieces of 1/4-20 threaded rod through the whole thing and I'm pretty sure it's responsible for a lot of the gantry strength. You can buy big 10ft pieces at Home Depot for less than $3 a piece. At my local HD it was near the electrical conduit.

Yes i will be using 4 all the way through it i bolted it for now and as soon as i get ready to put it all together i will get the rods and cut them to the right lenth, the bolt place i get everything from they are 2.50 for 10ft. I agree it will increast the strenth, and i will place them as well on the X axis slide carriage.

Are the skins on that gantry torsion box screwed on, or glued? It looks like they're screwed on, but I believe gluing them makes the box much more rigid.

Are the skins on that gantry torsion box screwed on, or glued? It looks like they're screwed on, but I believe gluing them makes the box much more rigid.

Everything is glued even the rib sections then drill and tapped, the bolts may help a little but does give it that industrial look... lol

Looks great Joe!

Here are the Z Axis Slide Bearings I made.

I had already recieved my 1/2" inside dia. bearings for the acme 1/2-10 leadscrews i ordered. (you could use 1/2"-13 standard thread also but I want to maximize speed), So i drew up a Leadscrew Bearing Support which has same bolt pattern as the Nema 23 motors.


Joe,

I'd like to get some of these 1/2 inch inner diameter bearings. Do you still have the part numbers?

I got mine from someone on ebay named "gem_supply".

Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-1616-ZZ-Shield-Ball-Bearings-1-2-x-1-1-8-1616ZZ_W0QQitemZ7555692288QQcategoryZ67033QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$16 shipped for 10 bearings, you can't go wrong.

Joe,

I'd like to get some of these 1/2 inch inner diameter bearings. Do you still have the part numbers?

got mine from VXB.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7556622868

Joe

Thanks gentlemen!

recieved my LoveJoy couplers today to go from the 1/4" Motor shafts to the 1/2"-10 Leadscrews, These things are tough to put together...

Joe, where did you order those from? I've never seen any where the spider sticks out past the coupler. Those spiders might have been made for a larger coupler.

Hi Joe,

Do you (or anyone else following this thread) have any experience with using oil impregnated bronze bearings as slider bearings? I see you made yours out of what looks like HDPE, I have seen some people make them out of wood (which doesn't seem like it will make a very good bearing to me). McMAster-Carr sells the oil impregnated bronze for about $5 each (though they have some going as high as $30 if you want them to have grease grooves cut in them.

Hi Joe,

Do you (or anyone else following this thread) have any experience with using oil impregnated bronze bearings as slider bearings? I see you made yours out of what looks like HDPE, I have seen some people make them out of wood (which doesn't seem like it will make a very good bearing to me). McMAster-Carr sells the oil impregnated bronze for about $5 each (though they have some going as high as $30 if you want them to have grease grooves cut in them.

I have never used any, mine are tight enought but slide with a little sillicone spray.

The X-Axis Carriage finished and painted.

You have to make sure the bearings are installed before assembling and glued together, I painted the pieces seperately the areas that would be on the inside, making sure not to paint the cut groves and outside edges of pieces so the glue would adhere to the wood for a tight bond. then used news paper to mask off the bearings aqnd then painted the outside.

Inside the Z Axis Slide.

Here is the gantry together and Like (Lionclaw's suggestion) I will be installing 4 threaded rods all the wat through it left to right. The Z-Axis slide is just a little tight so i need to adjust it a little. (maybe hollow out the bearings ever so slightly). Total weight 77lbs right now and it is pretty well balanced just slightly more to the rear.

Good work Joe.

Jason

It's looking awesome Joe. It looks like you managed to get your hands on some nice galvanized pipe? Or is it conduit?

Get cracking on that table! I can't wait to see how your double rail system works out :cheers:

Thanks, Jason

It's looking awesome Joe. It looks like you managed to get your hands on some nice galvanized pipe? Or is it conduit?

Get cracking on that table! I can't wait to see how your double rail system works out :cheers:

It is the galvanized gas pipe from Lowes, just a tad more expensive than the black, but i did not want the paint on the pipe to affect the accuracy as it wears even tho its would be very slight and i think it looks better.

Joe,

You must have been drawing this one up before you even finished the last one.
This post probably belongs on the thread for your second machine but it doesn't look like that one is very active now.

I like your new design but your second machine is a little more along the lines of my current manufacturing capabilities. I have come up with an idea that might improve the old design for those who aren't quite ready to tackle this one. Since it used unsupported pipe I thought I could add a set of adjustable bearings inside the lower gantry to take some of the side load off of the pipe. This lead to a slightly more complex idea of building torsion box gantry sides with three sets of bearings.
See my drawings. (I only have one of the horizontal setup the other two didn't survive the floppy disk transfer from work to home.)

Since then I thought it might even be useful in a design like your current one. Maybe a supported top rail with an unsupported lower rail fully captured in the lower gantry torsion box.

Just throwing out some ideas for review.

Mike.

Joe,

You must have been drawing this one up before you even finished the last one.
This post probably belongs on the thread for your second machine but it doesn't look like that one is very active now.

I like your new design but your second machine is a little more along the lines of my current manufacturing capabilities. I have come up with an idea that might improve the old design for those who aren't quite ready to tackle this one. Since it used unsupported pipe I thought I could add a set of adjustable bearings inside the lower gantry to take some of the side load off of the pipe. This lead to a slightly more complex idea of building torsion box gantry sides with three sets of bearings.
See my drawings. (I only have one of the horizontal setup the other two didn't survive the floppy disk transfer from work to home.)

Since then I thought it might even be useful in a design like your current one. Maybe a supported top rail with an unsupported lower rail fully captured in the lower gantry torsion box.

Just throwing out some ideas for review.

Mike.

that would help some left to right as the gantry would be pushing on both pipes instead of one in any given direction.

like to see more when you get it.

that would help some left to right as the gantry would be pushing on both pipes instead of one in any given direction.

I'm still in the early planning stages and the design may change a few more times before I actually start building.

One of the things I really like about your second design, and this one, is that the bearings are outside the rails rather than inside like the original JGRO. This would appear to increases the Y-axis travel without increasing the overall width of the machine. I probably won't end up using the vertical torsion box idea since that will take up a lot of my Y-axis travel with the extra thickness. I have a limited overall size that I must maintain if I ever plan to get my truck back in the garage. :D

I have gotten a ton of ideas from this thread and your previous machine. I'm anxious to see the table for this one.

Keep up the good work.

I went to lowes and looked around but did not really see anything i wanted for motor mounts that would accept the 10-24 screws needed for the nema23 motors, so i descided to make my own it is very stout, cut them out then drilled and taped the ends for the screws to secure it from the bottom and also the motor to mount ontop, here is what i came up with (I will know when I get the machine up and running if the heat from the motors will have any effect on the HDPE but i think it will be ok).

Hi joe,

I saw that you went with the lovejoy couplers that Andy recomended. I did a search for alternative couplers and found that McMster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/ sells exactly the same thing for considerable less. Coupler hubs are about #2

sorry, hit the wrong button. Coupler hubs are $3.26 each and the spiders are either $2 or $6.50 for buna or hytrel. So the whole thing can be <$10 for a complete coupler assembly. The lovejoys I've seen are running around $30 each. just thought I'd mention this in case your looking for more or if someone else is looking for them. On the McMaster site just do a find product search under spider and a padge of them will come up.

Steven

sorry, hit the wrong button. Coupler hubs are $3.26 each and the spiders are either $2 or $6.50 for buna or hytrel. So the whole thing can be <$10 for a complete coupler assembly. The lovejoys I've seen are running around $30 each. just thought I'd mention this in case your looking for more or if someone else is looking for them. On the McMaster site just do a find product search under spider and a padge of them will come up.

Steven


Actually USE-ENCO.com is cheaper here is the actual shipping order of mine, so if you need the part numbers its on there, and other things i got for my machine..

The lovejoys had a ever so slight little play in them with the Rubber type Spiders that come with them so i cut my own and they fit tight and no play at all now.

The play is (was :) ) to allow for slight misalignment.

The play is (was :) ) to allow for slight misalignment.

I should not need it in my machine, it is pretty much dead on for alignment or within reason.

I just was not satified with my Z Axis so i redesigned it and I am now using skate bearings It is very smooth and easy to move compaired to the other one I had In posts #41.

This has two 6" bearing slides and I managed to design it in such a way as to use U bolts and another bearing on the backside to keep it snug against the 3/4" Drill rod.

I am very happy with it now, and it has no racking in it at all that i can tell by trying to twist it by hand.

The travel is 6 3/4"

Joe

Pretty nifty Joe. Looks good.

Hi Joe,

Nice fix on the Z-axis, creative. Can't wait to see the whole thing together

Steven

Thanks, Lionclaw and sdantonio,

I believe it will work out better, I started cutting the bottom portion and will pick up the pipes this week, the galvanized gas pipes are a little more expensive than the black, but i like them because of no paint on them.

Has anyone Used EMT piping? it is thinner, and i was thinking in this design where the rails are fixed and supported they might workout.

Joe

For some reason I thought I had heard bad things about the galvanized gas pipe. I don't remember exactly what the comment was though. It could have been just price related.

Steven

Has anyone Used EMT piping? it is thinner, and i was thinking in this design where the rails are fixed and supported they might workout.
Joe

After moving my gantry back and forth by hand, it looks like the bearings are making flats on the galvanized pipe, but only on one side. I think if that's the case, the flatter they get the better, as there will be more contact area. Time will tell what will happen. Keep in mind this is with a 50lb gantry, and the bearings tightened up until there is no play at all.

“making flats on the galvanized pipe, but only on one side”
Is that like a flat tire that in only flat on the bottom? :)

I used black pipe. With a build like this, and so much tension on the pipes, black paint ends up covering the wheels. It didn’t seem to matter that much, but somehow it does not seem like a good thing. I never did sand it off the rails. But even with galvanized, it might be a good idea to sand a smooth track for the bearings.

Steve

No need to sand them, they are really smooth. The flat is on one pipe, but not the other, and it's very small right now, maybe 1/16" wide. It might just be a softer area on that one pipe.

No need to sand them, they are really smooth. The flat is on one pipe, but not the other, and it's very small right now, maybe 1/16" wide. It might just be a softer area on that one pipe.

Yea the Galv. Gas pipe does not need sanding, Ger21 maybe try to rotate that one pipe? if possible, Mine are not screwed in they are help by pressure and an end pocket the right radius of the pipe then torsion box screwed together.

Joe

OK, guess I haven’t worked with galvanized much.

Joe, looks like a pretty good Z bearing setup. It would allow someone to use non-precision rod also. You really have gotten good at plastic parts routing. I’m impressed.

Steve

OK, guess I haven’t worked with galvanized much.

Joe, looks like a pretty good Z bearing setup. It would allow someone to use non-precision rod also. You really have gotten good at plastic parts routing. I’m impressed.

Steve


Thanks Steve, I have you, ger21, lionclaw and others here on the zone to thank. It is more than just a hobby now. :)

I enjoy reading here and also trying to combine ideas into something that works for me.

Joe

Ger21 maybe try to rotate that one pipe?

I can't without a lot of disassembly. It was an incredibly tight fit getting it together. But I don't see a problem with it right now, it rolls very smoothly.

I just took a closer look, and it looks like the one side has worn through the galvanizing. Maybe I will try to turn it when I'm installing the Z-axis. The other side has no signs of wear at all. Must be a bad spot on the EMT. I have a panel saw Which uses a similar bearing setup on the same size EMT, and it hasn't worn through with over 10 years of use, but the load is much lighter.

I am using the gas pipe so mine is 1/8" thick I think i will just stick with that, but you are right it maybe the joint or something just in that spot.

Definition from Google:

Define:Glavanized

"A non-permanent metalic finish which wears off with abrasion."

Definition from Google:

Define:Glavanized

"A non-permanent metalic finish which wears off with abrasion."

that would explain it, but on my x axis just testing it is already settled to the steel, but i still think it is better than the black pipeswith paint. plus i like the way it looks.

I know, I just couldn't resist. :)
I was just trying to learn more and stumbled upon it.

I suppose the way to get around both the color and non-permanent nature of the two pipe species is to go with 1 inch drill rod and jack up the cost and weight considerably. Oh, and after we have increased the weight of the machine by going to solid steel rods we may have to consider the concreet platform to hold the finished router. :)

Galvanized is a coating usually Zinc to protect a surface from corrosion. It can be put on by dipping, plating or spraying. It is softer than the base metal it is applied to and will eventually flake or chip off if something harder than it is ran back and forth over it.

Started on the Bottom Portion of the machine now..

Hi Joe,

I'm assuming from the shape of the tortion box ribs that it is skinned with 3/4 material on the top and open on the botton. You will add to the weight, marginally add to the cost but Greatly increase the strength of the box if you put a 3/4 skin on both the top and the bottom.

JGRO once recomended a DIY article about building tortion boxes to Andy. I have a copy of that article that I saved as a pdf file if you want it. It's to large to post here as it is above the limit on file size.

Steven

you can e-maill it to me if you like (joe@lumenlab.com) but all the pressure will be from the sides and slightly from the top inwhich this is designed for it. I will have the small centerpieces all down the center 4" tall stagered using the two sets of 4-1/4" holes, glued and bolted, I do not believe it will flex at all, however i would like to see the artical Maybe the same one posted here showing how to build one? The top will be 3/4" mdf In essence having all of the torsion box except the bottom pieces.

Joe

Steven is correct. Without the bottom, it's not a torsion box, and doesn't have anywhere near the same strength. Without the pipes, mine will only deflect about 1/64" with about 220 lbs on it, with a 59" span.

Joe,

You absolutely have to skin both sides of a torsion box. The skins will carry the stresses. If you only skin one side; it will act as a board with some bracing. It can still bend, as MDF can do. If you skin the other side also, and then try to flex it, one skin will have to compress while the other skin will have to stretch. MDF does not stretch very much, and it will be very strong. You should use lots of ribs and lots of glue for this trick to work. The two skins need to act on each other.

I also used the same technique of skinning for strength with plastic laminate. If you securely glue it to both sides of a board and then try to flex it, one piece of laminate will have to stretch and one will have to compress. Just try to stretch a piece of Formica, as compared to bending it.

Now as to why you need to do it here. I built a similar machine as this one and did not skin the bottom even though I new better (read lazy). The pressure you will have to apply from the sides will be quite high to keep the bearings running correctly on the pipes. This pressure on my smaller machine was enough to cause the table box to bow up about 1/8” in the middle. It took a couple of months for it to happen, so I didn’t see it at first.

Steve

ok i will do it, I understand what you are saying, I will look over the bottom portion and see the best way to add it, and maybe use 1/2" or 5/8" MDF, or i could simple add two 1-1/2" x 1 1/2" steel angle iron on the bottom and bolt it together, this will prevent it from bowing (see my second machine) I will look at both options and see what is best and easiest.

Joe

After reading and looking over the artical you sent me the steel idea will not work I will add the MDF on the bottom portion.

Hi Joe,

I whipped this together in a couple of minutes (and it looks like it) without taking the time to make nice rounded corners or even straight lines, and god forbid it is scaled any where near correctly. But if you still have the time to straighten out the bottom (if you haven't cut all the ribs already) I would go something like this

(hopefully the PDF attached correctly)

Steven

Gerry - This Rhino3D that you recomended is a great program. A bit pricy, but great

Hi Joe,

I whipped this together in a couple of minutes (and it looks like it) without taking the time to make nice rounded corners or even straight lines, and god forbid it is scaled any where near correctly. But if you still have the time to straighten out the bottom (if you haven't cut all the ribs already) I would go something like this

(hopefully the PDF attached correctly)

Steven

Gerry - This Rhino3D that you recomended is a great program. A bit pricy, but greatThank you for your input, I have changed it and here is a sketch as you showed, I have already changed the drawing and SW file. I only cut three of them last night and 4 center braces, so it is worth redoing.

What do you think of this?

Thanks, Joe

I sat down to update all my drawing files, and created several parts, motors, bearings, leadscrews etc. all except bolts and nuts. Wanted to make sure I keep up to date with them so it is not a chore later on.

Joe

Finished cutting Large Y Axis and used the unit itself to make sure it is all lined up and leveled with itself, figured no better way that use the pipes themself. I used wax paper to protect the outer portions from woodglue to keep them removable.

just need to place outer skins.

Well now that's just downright impressive. Way to go Joe.

Would make a cool bookcase..... other than the books falling thru the holes!


I made the gantry side from 1/4" plywood (thinking off the top of my head... at work) they are 10" wide by 22" with 4 ribs running lengthwise and 11 on the width (rough spacing 2"-2.5") all glued and airnailed. I clamped one end to the bench (after it dried) and pushed down and could not feel any deflection or twist. Very light weight.

Go to any fabric store and look at the cardboard pieces in the middle of a bolt of cloth. It is a honeycomb of cardboard skinned with cardboard.... very strong. Can't easliy twist or bend

Thanks Guys I really appreciate the words...

I went to Lowes and got the Hitachi Router that (WarrenW) mentioned in his plog, this is the one.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=118359-67702-M12VC

I made a mount and installed it on the New CNC and the Z axis has no problem lifting it.

Thats a good looking router Joe, I was considering a replacement for my DeWalt DW610 and saw your Hitachi but I backed away when I held it in my hand and felt how heavy it was. Let us know how it performs.

Jason

joe2000che,

Can you pass along the drawings in Solidworks for me to use?

Thanks

joe2000che,

Can you pass along the drawings in Solidworks for me to use?

Thanks

email me i will see what i can do to zip them up, I think i have them completed so it is safe now to pass them on :)

Joe

Hi Joe,

Your machine is great. Maybe you would like to share your plans with us, especially for those who have already a machine, which can be use to build the parts. I think your plans if you agree to upload here will have huge success.

Zoltan

email me i will see what i can do to zip them up, I think i have them completed so it is safe now to pass them on :)

Joe

My email address is: creative_mind@verizon.net

Thank you.

Hey Joe I love the way you think that looks like another excellent job a little more complicated then the angle iron one though LOL

Hey Joe I love the way you think that looks like another excellent job a little more complicated then the angle iron one though LOL

Thanks, :)

Well I took my other Machine apart and installed the new one, Very difficult job to do by yourself, trying to lift and hold at the same time.

Here are the tolerance just after I put it together with no adjustments whatsoever. I'm sure i could shim here and there to get it perfect if i needed to but for general cutting that is not bad at all.

Can you post a few pictures of it in it's current state?

Thanks, Happy New Year!

Here it is so far i did not paint the bottom section i just needed to get it together, only thing left is to install the last end piece you see that this machine just cut out , I have spacers 3/4" thick at the motor mount to alow for it.

I also installed a quick router dust cover. You can see how much was left after cutting, not much at all the Cyclone even with just a small Shopvac got alot of it, I was very happy not having dust flying around. I cut the piece at 80ipm i can go faster but The 1/2"-10 lead screw started whipping a little i think it was bent slightly during shipping i can see it when i jog real slow.

Finished it up today, I added 4x4 post for legs and lowered off of sawhorses, It is pretty solid cutting surface is at 36" height. But I already have Ideas to start building it again and make it alot lighter. Look forward to Model 2006a (model 2007 was a mistake in typing....)

They sure end up a lot heavier then you'd think, don't they? :)

If I wasn't making mine out of aluminum this would be the way I would go love it Joe!

They sure end up a lot heavier then you'd think, don't they? :)

Yes with out a doubt :)

But I know now that I will never go back to a single rail system for the long axis the douple pipe rail works out great with no rocking of the gantry.

Joe, Great job, looks really nice and sturdy. A quick question. On your x-axis rods, did you use 0.5 inch galv pipe of 1 inch. The plans call for 0.5, but it looks more like 1 inch in the photos. But photo's can be deceiving.

Steven

joe2000che,

Can you pass along the drawings in Solidworks for me to use? I am using Solidworks 2005.

My email address is creative_mind@verizon.net

Thanks

Joe, Great job, looks really nice and sturdy. A quick question. On your x-axis rods, did you use 0.5 inch galv pipe of 1 inch. The plans call for 0.5, but it looks more like 1 inch in the photos. But photo's can be deceiving.

Steven

Yes you are correct they are the 1" Gal. Gas pipes

Joe

joe2000che,

Can you pass along the drawings in Solidworks for me to use? I am using Solidworks 2005.

My email address is creative_mind@verizon.net

Thanks

I will try again but it did not go through when i tried it twice to you before, If nothing else i can send you the e-drawings.

Joe

Joe's CNC Model 2006 R-2

OK Now here it goes, Seems like I'm never happy 100%, altho this machine is very solid and works really well I want to make it lighter without sacrificing its rigidness, The 200oz motors will cut at 80ipm but i'm i do not want to go faster with them being afraid of loosing steps.

I have started to cut the new one using 1/2" MDF Instead of 3/4" for all the interior ribs and also Using 1/4" MDF for the Outer Skins of the Torsion Boxes, I can already tell this is going to be more than 1/4 the weight of the present one, I want to get the Drawings done and machine tested Before I send it to anyone, Hope you understand, If im not happy then i would not expect you to be either. :)

Joe

its a good thing mdf isn't that expensive Joe I really do think your hobby has turned into obsession LOL!

I will try again but it did not go through when i tried it twice to you before, If nothing else i can send you the e-drawings.

Joe

Thank you for the eDrawings files and they work fine. I was able to measure the individual parts of the machine in eDrawings and create a new part file in Solidworks.

I like your new idea using thinner MDF for the gantry support - any new eDrawings yet?

Keep up with the great ideas! :banana:

its a good thing mdf isn't that expensive Joe I really do think your hobby has turned into obsession LOL!

What a fun hobby it is :D ,

MDF maybe not to expensive, but the time i have into this is many many late night hours :bat:

Thank you for the eDrawings files and they work fine. I was able to measure the individual parts of the machine in eDrawings and create a new part file in Solidworks.

I like your new idea using thinner MDF for the gantry support - any new eDrawings yet?

Keep up with the great ideas! :banana:

I am Re-doing all the drawings as i cut it out, I am hopping to have it completed within one weeks time, so the new ones if what i would like people to use.

Joe

Right now I'm using solidworkd viewer (I don't have the regulat solidworks CAD yet, but I'm working on it). Is there any way to get dimensional information off of the drawing without solidworks? Nothing else I have (RhinoCAD or AutoCAD) seems to import the solidworks files.

I've been sitting there holding calipers to printouts which seems to work better than you would think, considering that you can rotate the image and get a lot of information from all angles. For the most part I can keep working with the calipers and it seems to be fine, just a bit slow. For example, if you know the y-axis pipes are 1 inch diameter, you can print off the drawing and scale everything from that point. Slow, but effective.

Steven

Right now I'm using solidworkd viewer (I don't have the regulat solidworks CAD yet, but I'm working on it). Is there any way to get dimensional information off of the drawing without solidworks? Nothing else I have (RhinoCAD or AutoCAD) seems to import the solidworks files.

I've been sitting there holding calipers to printouts which seems to work better than you would think, considering that you can rotate the image and get a lot of information from all angles. For the most part I can keep working with the calipers and it seems to be fine, just a bit slow. For example, if you know the y-axis pipes are 1 inch diameter, you can print off the drawing and scale everything from that point. Slow, but effective.

Steven

I can save the edrawings to allow for the measure tool to work in the edrawing viewer, that would be the best way to do it.

Joe

Joe, that would be great. I'm not going to be home tonight (have to spend the night in the machine shop from my old grad school) to fab up a few parts.

I'll look for you tomorrow night on microsoft IM.

Just out of curiosity, your x, y, and z aluminum angles for the skate bearings, what were the total lengths of each of them. I'm hoping to cut them tonight since I have use of their huge milling machine and can work in steel rather than aluminum. I was planning on going 8, 10, and 6 inches respectively (adapting from the jgro plans and your prints)

Steven

mine are the same as jgro, 4-8", 2-7.5" and 2-6" (I'm thinking of expanding the 4-8" to 4-10", however that will cut the overall cutting length down by 2" what do you guys think?

Joe

Joe, Thanks again for the quick responce. I should at least have the angle stock machined up tonight so I can officially say that I've started to build my first router.

mine are the same as jgro, 4-8", 2-7.5" and 2-6" (I'm thinking of expanding the 4-8" to 4-10", however that will cut the overall cutting length down by 2" what do you guys think?

Joe

I made mine 12" for more stability, but don't know how much difference it would make. I also use 1/4" thick aluminum angle, 1 1/4" x 1 1/4". It's rock solid, no flex at all.

Here is the New Z Axis Carriage, It sure is alot of work to make things lighter by changing the thichkness, one thing changes another.

Anyway the new one weighs 9.5 lbs (old one 12.5 lbs) so you can start seeing how much weight is being shaved off.

Hi Gerry,

I finally becided to go the same dimensions as Joe. I was thinking 10 inches for extra stablity, but the extra stability gained for the second set of rails may swamp out any gains from the added length. I went with 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 X 1/8 steel angle (it cut beautifully and very accurately on an 8 foot tall bridgebort - I have a friend who is the machinist at one of he local universities... actually it's the one I went to).

I used .433 offset for the holes (from the angle vertex) as per JGRO. But I have to work out the offset for the 3/4 rod z-axis. In JGRO's plans he has .433 for the 1 inch rod and .465 for 1/2 inch which seems counterintuitive (I would think the smaller rod would have the smaller offset based on geometry).


But when I put them together with the bearings this weekend and see how they sit on the rod I'll decide how to cut the z-bearing angles.

Steven

Hi Gerry,

I finally becided to go the same dimensions as Joe. I was thinking 10 inches for extra stablity, but the extra stability gained for the second set of rails may swamp out any gains from the added length. I went with 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 X 1/8 steel angle (it cut beautifully and very accurately on an 8 foot tall bridgebort - I have a friend who is the machinist at one of he local universities... actually it's the one I went to).

I used .433 offset for the holes (from the angle vertex) as per JGRO. But I have to work out the offset for the 3/4 rod z-axis. In JGRO's plans he has .433 for the 1 inch rod and .465 for 1/2 inch which seems counterintuitive (I would think the smaller rod would have the smaller offset based on geometry).


But when I put them together with the bearings this weekend and see how they sit on the rod I'll decide how to cut the z-bearing angles.

Steven


I use 0.433 for all the bearing slides, its the distance from the actual bearing to the angle (iron or alumn.) that changes depending on the dia. of pipe (See Red area in attached drawing), this does not need to be exact diminsion as long as the bearing rides mostly centered on the pipe beacuse the width of the bearing is about 0.25", I use nuts and washers to get me close to what i need, easy to add and take off as needed.

Joe

Hey Joe-- roughly how much material do you have into the machine?? I would guess 2-3 sheets 4x8 sheets? What would be the waste %?

Thanks...

so far on this new one i have 4-24"x48" 1/2" mdf and one 1/4" 24"x48", i would say about 15-20% leftover on each. Just depends on how i can clamp it down to the CNC to Cut it.

I will be able to Cut the Parts for People if they would like to Make this machine when I finish this new one...

Joe

New Gantry side pieces, two 1/2" MDF Glued then will be bolted together.

Awesome machine Joe!
I was thinking of building another machine as an improvement over my first and now I know I have to build one like this. The dual rail just make sense. Where I work we have a palletizer that stacks containers and this machine uses dual rails to run a carriage. The older models of the same machine we have only a single rail. The dual rail is much smoother. Racking of the gantry has to be much improved over a single rail. Once again, very nice design.

Joe I would like to thank you for your postings on your machines you have built. I'm presently building your second machine. The construction is complete and I shoud be receiving my stepper motors next week. I just wanted to know what size of all- thread do you recommend fo the drive screws.

Thanks again for your posts
Ken

Joe I would like to thank you for your postings on your machines you have built. I'm presently building your second machine. The construction is complete and I shoud be receiving my stepper motors next week. I just wanted to know what size of all- thread do you recommend fo the drive screws.

Thanks again for your posts
Ken

In that machine i used 5/16-18 which fit into the standard 8mm skate bearings.

Finished cutting the Bottom Torsion box ribs, they fit very tight and all even.

Joe, I can't stop stareing at your work. Excellent!! Just thinking, (oh no) why you did not consider using 1/2" or 3/8" baltic birch instead of mdf. The way your joints locks together I wonder if it would be lighter. Any warp would be eliminated by the combination of design and the ability to cut it on your cnc. Another curious Rookie. Johne

Joe, I can't stop stareing at your work. Excellent!! Just thinking, (oh no) why you did not consider using 1/2" or 3/8" baltic birch instead of mdf. The way your joints locks together I wonder if it would be lighter. Any warp would be eliminated by the combination of design and the ability to cut it on your cnc. Another curious Rookie. Johne

Once the torsion box is glued and nailed it will not warp, that the design of torsion boxes, the top material may be pulling in one direction but the bottom piece will be pushing and not allow it to move, the forces working gainst each other will cancel it out.

and another factor if MDF is cheaper, and with this new lighter design i would not want to go any lighter then you could introduce chattering into the system.

got a chance to finish the bottom torsion box. it weights only 46.5 lbs.

What did the 3/4" version weigh?

What did the 3/4" version weigh?

I do not know yet, I will weigh it when i take the machine apart and put this one together, I will do a complete comparison and also see how it preforms being as strudy as the 1st one.

I'm cutting all the parts at 80ipm, its amazing to watch it cut at least that fast.... lol

Do you have a way of making a video? That would be fun to watch at 80 ipm.

Do you have a way of making a video? That would be fun to watch at 80 ipm.

Yes I will be cutting the bottom torsion box of the gantry and the end suport pieces of the X axis so i will try to make one cutting. hopefully within a day or two.

got a chance to finish the bottom torsion box. it weights only 46.5 lbs.

What size is that box. I didn't weigh mine, but estimate it's between 50-70 lbs, 32" x 59 1/2". MDF 1/2" skins, with 3/4 baltic birch ribs, with LOTS of lightening holes.

What size is that box. I didn't weigh mine, but estimate it's between 50-70 lbs, 32" x 59 1/2". MDF 1/2" skins, with 3/4 baltic birch ribs, with LOTS of lightening holes.

Mine is roughly 30x58.5" overall and 24" wide center.

Hey Joe, love the machine! I'm definetly going with the torsion box design for both axes. I know you've said you could cut at 80 ipm, what are your rapids? Are you using that 24 volt supply with 200oz steppers? Are you using the hobby CNC board? Would you attribute that speed and cutting to the nice router you have as a spindle? Sorry for all the questions! What kind of tolerance does your z-axis hold up to after cutting? Thanks again, I just know that mine will mirror your's and I want to be able to tell the future. :)

Hey Joe, love the machine! I'm definetly going with the torsion box design for both axes. I know you've said you could cut at 80 ipm, what are your rapids? Are you using that 24 volt supply with 200oz steppers? Are you using the hobby CNC board? Would you attribute that speed and cutting to the nice router you have as a spindle? Sorry for all the questions! What kind of tolerance does your z-axis hold up to after cutting? Thanks again, I just know that mine will mirror your's and I want to be able to tell the future. :)

HobbyCNC board, 200oz steppers and the 33.7v input, remember the 24vac x roughly 1.4 = 33.6vdc., and also the router is 8,000 to 24,000 rpm (settings 1-6 on the var. dial) I have it set to 3 which is roughtly 16,000 rpm.

If you're still willing to send your SolidWorks files out, I'd love to receive a copy.

Thanks!

If you're still willing to send your SolidWorks files out, I'd love to receive a copy.

Thanks!

I'm trying to hold off until i finish this build, I like to make sure everything is ok and working good.

Joe

Hey Joe! It's me from the Lumenlab forum.. (Jefftt)

Too bad you don't get a "cut" from HobbyCnc, cuz I'm puttin in my order for (3 new) 200 oz, and board kit end of this month!

Understood. Just keep me in mind when you're ready :cheers:

I'm trying to hold off until i finish this build, I like to make sure everything is ok and working good.

Joe

I took a video with a webcam (all i had at this time) the machine cutting at 80ipm one of the bottom gantry torsion box ribs. it is 8.9meg so i guess i can e-mail if you let me know where to send or how i can upload it here? I do not know if i have the clearance to do that.

Joe

I was able to finish the last cutting the last couple of pieces of the Gantry Bottom Torsion Box.

Gantry Bottom Torsion Box Complete.

Here are the CNC Router Support End pieces, weight is 10lbs each side (two pieces each side).

Joe

That is a really nice bit of work you are doing there.
I Hav'nt been on the forum for a while and it is amazing how high the standards of machines being built now from when I first joined this group back in 2003.

What type of cutters/speeds do you find best when cutting out nylon/plastics

Joe

That is a really nice bit of work you are doing there.
I Hav'nt been on the forum for a while and it is amazing how high the standards of machines being built now from when I first joined this group back in 2003.

What type of cutters/speeds do you find best when cutting out nylon/plastics

Thanks, The improvements to the machines have come from several members here which makes the DIY portion of this site so wonderful.

I use 2 flute endmills, cutting at about 16,000rpm and now cut at 80ipm.

Joe:
I have been reading this thread for several weeks now, and just wanted to add my kudos for the awesum job you are doing documenting your build and rebuild. I would very much like a copy of any prints or drawings you may have available. I would gladly pay for them if you would email me with the costs and availablity. Again GREAT JOB. Looking forward to following this thread, and your progress. Perhaps in the very near future I can begin my build as well. Right now I am trying to understand stepper and servo motors. I'm old (chair) and don't pick things up as easily as in my youth. But I will get this thing done.

Thanks Bob

Hi Joe,

You have so many people asking for your plans that I thought I might suggest using a file transfer service. My favorite is http://www.yousendit.com Just upload your file once and list the email addresses of the people you want and it will send them an email alerting them that they have a file to download. Files stay on the server for seven days. This method gets around the file size limit that some email systems have. You can upload any file up to 1GB in size.

Hi Joe,

You have so many people asking for your plans that I thought I might suggest using a file transfer service. My favorite is http://www.yousendit.com Just upload your file once and list the email addresses of the people you want and it will send them an email alerting them that they have a file to download. Files stay on the server for seven days. This method gets around the file size limit that some email systems have. You can upload any file up to 1GB in size.

thanks, I will try it out.

I have not been able to work on the new cnc in a few days, starting to miss it... lol

Joe

Joe, You do great work. I enjoy your build logs.

If you make your plans available I would like you to email me a set. Address is: hotair220@msn.com

Joe, You do great work. I enjoy your build logs.

If you make your plans available I would like you to email me a set. Address is: hotair220@msn.com

I would like to finish the New build befor sending out anything, altho i'm about 99.9999999% sure it will work just fine.

Joe

Well my daughter made a request to paint the machine John Deere colors, what do you guys think?

Looks great! It makes it look "down home", sort of like a retired NASA engineer turned Hobby farmer my Dad has been friends with since I was knee high to a grasshopper. Yes, I grew up in rural South Carolina, now I live in Rural Georgia, not much of a change I guess....

Joe, you make this look easy, and you have a great looking rig to boot! Keep up the great work!!

I like it. That's the colors I've been thinking about painting my south bend shaper if I ever get the paint off of it.

Hi Joe,

The color scheme looks good. At least she didn't go with pink and some young ladies wouls suggest (I had a 35 year old girlfriend once with a pink bedroom, it always made me feel a bit uneasy while the lights were on).

Started painting the pieces white primer, I think i will stick to the white, it just looks so much cleaner and streamlined.

Joe

Made a new X Axis Bearing slide for the inside of the Gantry sides, this one made out of all HDPE, after screwing it together i was not able to move the bearing block inside with my fingers I had to lightly tap it with a hammer to make it slide which is exactly how i want it so there is no movement at all when installed and the 4 bolts adjusted from the outside will push it against the rails.

Well have not posted in a few days because i have been busy at work and also working on the CNC Machine in spare time, painted everything (descided on white for the pro look) also cutting all the HDPE pieces.

Here are all the HDPE Pieces which will be used in the machine.

These are what will be included in a kit (minus the hardware) I will make for people who are interested in the machine.

Thanks, Joe

Just thought of somethin yesterday.. If a guy used square tubing instead of angle irons, and put the bearings on top and to the sides, that'd work too, right? ...well, heck - thats what I'm a gonna do anyhow..

Used to be a guy around the ol casting forums that talked a good thing about making his own HBLBs (which were aluminum cast pillowblock type skate bearing holders) : an idea I love, but without a CNC hotwire, [for the xps foam pattern] kinda tough to re-create. The design was cool though, in that he had slotted holes in which to mount the bearings, thus making adjustments easy.

I've done the angle irons/bearings thing, too, and tho it does work, it's tricky. I'm gonna try this with square tubing to see if it works better on my bigger mill..

I gotta say tho, man.. this thing you're doin is lookin like a Guillow's kit! If for nothing else - it looks like a BLAST!!

Nice work Joe. I think your kit is really going to be great.

Wolfspaw

Joe I like the kit, i'm sure you are going to get a bunch of guys looking one. Could you name all the parts in it? I couldn't figure them all out... Thanks _Jon

Nice work Joe. I think your kit is really going to be great.

Wolfspaw

Thanks, I am hoping to provide a good machine for people that do not have the means to make the parts for a CNC Machine.

Joe I like the kit, i'm sure you are going to get a bunch of guys looking one. Could you name all the parts in it? I couldn't figure them all out... Thanks _Jon

After i finish putting it together and test I will provide a pictures which will be in a kit and also provide a list of other parts (hardware) that is needed. The machine really performs well, as you can see from parts cut from it :)

Joe

Very nice Joe, have you put a price on the kit yet?
Wally

Very nice Joe, have you put a price on the kit yet?
Wally

I'm still trying to figure that out finally. what do you guys think? any suggestions on price? It is alot of cutting involved also but worth it in the end.

Here are the parts involved and I can make the Skate bearing slides also.

Thanks, Joe

Good job Joe.
And thanks so much for sharing what can be done on your first machine. The second (one your building now) will be even better.

Hager

I downloaded your latest PDF.
You really are a doer Joe. Good effort.
Nice workmanship.

Joe, as far as price is concerned, I'm not sure I could make a fair estimate. I don't know what the material cost nor what your time is worth to cut the parts out. I guess the weight would have to be factored in for shipping estimates too.
The kit sure looks good though.
Wally

I bet the shipping to down under would be a killer.......

doh!

Bonjour de France,
Très beau travail, vous avez les plans de votre machine ?
Je suis intéressé pour m'en servir de base pour les convertir en système métrique pour en construire une à titre personnel.
Excusez moi j'arrive à lire l'américain mais je l'écris très mal...

Merci et à bientôt

I can send out the e-drawings soon, I just want to finish assembly, I think you can change the settings in solidworks to metric most programs will..

joe

Pour joe2000che

Merci pour la réponse, si les plans sont provisoires actuellement ce n'est pas genant. Il me faut adapter les dimensions mais aussi les matériaux disponibles en France et le logiciel ne pourra rien pour moi !
En voyant les images de la machine je pense que tout va bien fonctionner.
A vous de voir si les documents actuels sont suffisant pour commencer une construction "européenne".

Merci et à bientôt

Gérard

Pour joe2000che

Merci pour la réponse, si les plans sont provisoires actuellement ce n'est pas genant. Il me faut adapter les dimensions mais aussi les matériaux disponibles en France et le logiciel ne pourra rien pour moi !
En voyant les images de la machine je pense que tout va bien fonctionner.
A vous de voir si les documents actuels sont suffisant pour commencer une construction "européenne".

Merci et à bientôt

Gérard
send me a pm with your email and i sent to you as soon as i finish updating the drawings.

Thanks, Joe

Joe that set of parts just looks awsome...

Garry

no pricing suggestions??

Well obviously start with your material costs. How many full sheets of MDF at what thicknesses are used?
Then, figure out how long it takes you, from pulling the mdf off your truck, cutting it up on the tablesaw, to running it through the cnc. Don't forget time to pack and ship. Then decide what that time is worth to you, which you are obviously the best person to answer.

If it were me, I'd do it cheap until it started seeming like a chore, then I'd charge realistic labor. Or you could build it cheap if the person agrees to cut one for someone else, that way it keeps the hobby strong, and brings lots more into the fold. Think how many Joe Model 2006 CNC's could be around if everyone who built one, also cut the pieces so another person could build one! (group) Considering the fact that you will have all the modeling and gcode ready to go, doesn't seem too far fetched.

Just look at how many people at Lumenlab want your new model, myself included. Many of us don't have the tools necessary to build a decent sized unit with any accuracy. I think most of us would be willing to cut the parts for someone once ours is done. I certainly would cut as many as needed, just for the sake of using the cnc.

Whatever you decide, I can't wait for you to finish! Your machine really is at the top of the budget heap. Without going to all metal construction, THK or similar rails, servo motors, etc, your machine really rocks! I might eventually be able to afford all that for a CNC, but for now your machine looks like the cat's meow that won't assassinate my checking account, and a great place to start with confidence!

I can send out the e-drawings soon, I just want to finish assembly, I think you can change the settings in solidworks to metric most programs will..

joe

When do you think the eDrawings will be ready? Will the file be uploaded to the CNCzone's download section? I am looking forward to it. :cheers:

Thanks.

Can't wait to see these new plans. Looks like my next project, maybe the first thing my bodged together cnc will cut. Thanks Joe for all the hardwork, and a great design! Would even pay for the plans if that helps......

Ok, I got the E-Drawings done and uploaded to the plans section, here is the link, let me know what you think...

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=134810#post134810


Thanks, Joe

Joe...you speak French? Or did you use a Babelfish? Its kind of funny, I took French in high school, and then forgot most of it, but if I read it like I do English, without actually trying to read all of the words, I can basically understand it! Anyway, awsome build, and very kind of you to share your progress and learning over the years.

Joe:
I down loaded the files. Thank You. I was unable to open the files. What program did you use to write the files? What program would you suggest to open and read the files?

Thank You for the wonderful build so far and all the useful instruction it is Very Much Appreciated.

BTW: I can open DXF files if you have your drawings available in that format.

Bob

The files are made for a free viewer program. Called Edrawing.

Link:http://www.solidworks.com/pages/programs/eDrawings/e2_register.html?CFID=26240399&CFTOKEN=90318329

Joe:
I just took a run through of your Edrawing files.FANTASTIC :cheers:
How much would you charge for a set of DFX files? You may contact me privately if you wish.
Regards Bob
I am going tommorow for an all day scavenger hunt for parts for a 4' x 8' CNC router table project. :banana: The sooner I can get a set of workable plans the sooner I can launch my project. :eek:

I would also be interested in the DFX files if they became available for charge or otherwise.

Just like to echo the interest in DFX plans. We have been thinking about building a smaller machine for small projects (have a lot of left over parts from our first machine), and I think your design is the best.

send me an e-mail : joe(at)lumenlab.com

send me an e-mail : joe(at)lumenlab.com

that email must be down it has not worked all day, try joecnc2006(at)yahoo.com

Hi Joe,
What would be the optimum (or your preferred) stepper motor and driver for your build be? Also, what would be the largest dia. threaded rod size be? I hope you kit is available soon!

Hi Joe,
What would be the optimum (or your preferred) stepper motor and driver for your build be? Also, what would be the largest dia. threaded rod size be? I hope you kit is available soon!

the HobbyCNC kit works well on my heavier machine so on this one which is 1/3 the weight it will be just fine, I would stay with 1/2" leadscrews, i use 10tpi, you can get less tpi in same dia. such as two start 5tpi which will double the speed, however the 1/2-10 works fine at 80ipm now. looking at the machine i do not want to go faster myself, because of holes and such, it is smooth to me at 80ipm. which is alot faster than alot of DIY wood machine i seeing built, including my earlier machines.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I have to say well done. it does look good.

I have allways planned to use my first machine to cut parts for the second. I am going to start the learing by cutting the replacement parts I stuffed while building my JGRO, like the Y carrage and Z carrage.

But I have to say you machine looks the business. I am very tempted to start working on you design straight away. But with money and all that, its is not going to happen.

But then I realised that us metic users will have to modify your plans a little. From what I have read you are using 1/2" MDF which is 12.7 mm here. What I am wondering is if the 12mm MDF here (in Aus or any other metric contry) is actually 12mm or is it 1/2 re-named to 12mm (so it is actually 12.7mm). If it is 12.0 mm, that means all those wonderfull slots in the torsion box will have to be reworked just bit for metric timber, so we get a nice tight fit.

Is anyone in a postion to get an accurate thickness on some 12mm MDF here in Aus? (i am at work). If not I will measure some when I get home.

But well done. I didnt see your second design, but this one looks great.

Can I ask why you didnt go the big form factor pipe (100mm or so) that other people have done? When is was glued to the torsion box it *seemed* that it would add a bit of strengh?

(sorry if its stupid question I know SQWAT about design)

CH

the 1/2" MDF measures just shy of 1.3cm... so 1.27cm = 12.7mm so i would say its the same thickness..

Hey Joe,
What is the largest size material (length x width x height) that you can run safely on your machine? Got my kit ready yet?

I'm pretty sure your 12MM mdf is 12mm. We've had both 1/2" and 12mm in our shop before.

As for the large pipe, I haven't seen anyone use 4" pipe (100mm). Also, it's very likely that the torsion box would be much stiffer than the pipe, so gluing it in wouldn't add much strength imo.

the machine travel is 25x49x7.

I agree with Ger21, gluing the pipes will not make a difference.

Joe

Your plans look great, it makes me really excited to start making parts for a new machine. Do you have any sort of assembly instructions? I'm sure we can figure it out, but I thought I would ask before we plow right into building.

Your plans look great, it makes me really excited to start making parts for a new machine. Do you have any sort of assembly instructions? I'm sure we can figure it out, but I thought I would ask before we plow right into building.
I will see if i can do an exploded view in solidworks. just have to learn how..

Here is a quick Hardware list if additional parts that will need to be obtained for the build, and also I Used the HobbyCNC.com 200oz 3 axis cnc kit to run at 80ipm.

Putting this together in my spare time is taking a little longer than anticipated.
I thought I would show a picture of the Bearing slide adjustment nuts (5/16") which are installed to pull the bearings up snug against the rails at the top of the Z Axis carrage and the right side of the gantry. And here is a picture of the gantry (weight is 53.5lbs as compaired to 75lbs of the 1st one).

This is looking very good Joe.

Got all the Bearing slides made and installed, also took pictures of the bearing slide adjusters, on the rt. side of the gantry and also for the Y axis bearing inside the Z Axis cariage as shown on the top. You can also see the 38" length of 4-1/4" threaded rod running through the gantry torsion box.

Two or three more evenings i will be finished with it, this one hass all new parts none used from my other machine. I am also keeping track of sizes of all the bolts, washers and nuts needed.

Edit: The adjustment Bolts are 5/16"x 2.5" on the Side of the Gantry and 5/16"x2" on the top of the Carriage slide.

Joe,
I am a complete newbie. (Look, I am on post #1.) But I must say this looks like very nice work to me. I really like the documentation I have seen online so far. If I can manage to trudge my way through CAD and the next steps of the computer side, I may build a CNC router. Of all the designs, this one sure looks like it may do what I want and be with in my building skills. I do not have access to a CNC to cut the parts, so I would either be cutting by traditional means or be a customer.

Thanks for sharing your work. It has given me a nice surfing dream to add to wood working hobby.

Dale

Joe,
I am a complete newbie. (Look, I am on post #1.) But I must say this looks like very nice work to me. I really like the documentation I have seen online so far. If I can manage to trudge my way through CAD and the next steps of the computer side, I may build a CNC router. Of all the designs, this one sure looks like it may do what I want and be with in my building skills. I do not have access to a CNC to cut the parts, so I would either be cutting by traditional means or be a customer.

Thanks for sharing your work. It has given me a nice surfing dream to add to wood working hobby.

Dale

Some people have asked for a kit that would not be all the MDF pieces cut but a part of each or the ribs for instance, in which they would use it as a template and produce their own parts from. (this would only be possible for the torsion boxes)

Your build and drawings look great . Thanks for all your hard work. I know it's somewhere but what is th overall size and cutting area?
Wally

Your build and drawings look great . Thanks for all your hard work. I know it's somewhere but what is th overall size and cutting area?
Wally

25"x49"x7"

Do you have a parts/price breakdown list?

Some people have asked for a kit that would not be all the MDF pieces cut but a part of each or the ribs for instance, in which they would use it as a template and produce their own parts from. (this would only be possible for the torsion boxes)

If I get to the point of ever trying a CNC machine, I would be eager too get a single part and make my duplicates by template routing. For the parts that are special, I would still have to be a customer or resort to traditional manufacture.

Thanks again for publishing your work. It truly is the fuel of my woodworking fantasies.

Dale

Greetings Joe,
I've got my software and electronics ready. I am going to be ordering some hardware like the Acme rods, drill rod, lovejoys, skate bearings,etc. What I'm really wondering is when a complete X, Y torsion box, gantry, and bearing support blocks/tool holder kit will be available? I would be happy to be a BETA test customer. Big deal if all of the marketing kinks arent worked out, your design speaks volumes! I have some tools for fabrication but I am not interested in reinventing the wheel. Your project looks like it is ready to be rolled out. Let me know what it will take to get this flying. Cabin fever has set in ( having a blizzard today) and am anxious for a good project.
Best Regards
BR

Greetings Joe,
I've got my software and electronics ready. I am going to be ordering some hardware like the Acme rods, drill rod, lovejoys, skate bearings,etc. What I'm really wondering is when a complete X, Y torsion box, gantry, and bearing support blocks/tool holder kit will be available? I would be happy to be a BETA test customer. Big deal if all of the marketing kinks arent worked out, your design speaks volumes! I have some tools for fabrication but I am not interested in reinventing the wheel. Your project looks like it is ready to be rolled out. Let me know what it will take to get this flying. Cabin fever has set in ( having a blizzard today) and am anxious for a good project.
Best Regards
BR

I will be finished with it by this weekend, I will put the Z axis together with pictures of the rear bearing tensioner also and show how to do it tonight,

I'm trying to make this Log on the forums to serve as a tutorial to put it together, thats why i post so many pictures.

If someone likes they can download the log and make a pdf out of it.

Joe

Got the Z Axis Bearing Slide Installed, Here is a list of the hardware.

4 - U-Bolts (5/16" x 2" x 4-1/2")
5/16" I.D. Clear Hose

Also Here is the 3/4" drill rod cut to 14 3/4" lengths and ground the ends at slight 45, they fit very tight into the Holes in the Z Axis Carriage.

I will dremel the extra thread which sticks out.

Edit: forgot to mention the hose lengths were cut to 2.75" and I will switch from a Lockwasher and nut to a Locking nut at the end of the U bolts.

Hi Joe,

I have to say that is a very simple solution, I love it. Aquick tighten of the U-Bolts and you get great contact on the drill rod by all of the skate bearings.

You are a cleaver man.

*bow down*

what fodder1 said.

no more lusting after the ability to cast bearing mounts in my back yard.

I think this idea has just simplified the hardware-store router design quite a bit......

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

what fodder1 said.

no more lusting after the ability to cast bearing mounts in my back yard.

I think this idea has just simplified the hardware-store router design quite a bit......

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Actually take a look at BEONE's design he started. He made basically a cast version of the angle aluminum bearing mounts. They look pretty sweet, since he made it a point to cast flat sides on the top and sides for ease of mounting. Pretty sweet if you have the ability to cast!!!! As for me, Joe's method will do fine.


You must be approaching completion Joe....? Any more progress shots?

I like it...I tried to figure out how to use U-bolts, a few years back, and never came up with anything as elegant as this. I never came up with the last part...the tubing as a means to hold the bearing in position on the U-bolt.

Do you have dimensions for the whole construct? I'd love to build one, just as a proof of concept model! The important elements would be the size of the rod (3/4"), the size of the angle, the length of the spacers for the bearings on the angle, and the size of the U-bolt.

A VERY cool design. BRAVO!

-- Chuck Knight

Joe, You do great work. I enjoy your build log.


Would you post the your plan and parts list with measurements.

Thanks Ron

I like it...I tried to figure out how to use U-bolts, a few years back, and never came up with anything as elegant as this. I never came up with the last part...the tubing as a means to hold the bearing in position on the U-bolt.

Do you have dimensions for the whole construct? I'd love to build one, just as a proof of concept model! The important elements would be the size of the rod (3/4"), the size of the angle, the length of the spacers for the bearings on the angle, and the size of the U-bolt.

A VERY cool design. BRAVO!

-- Chuck Knight

are you just refering to the Z Axis?

3/4" drill rod, skate bearing slides, using 5/16" bolts and one 5/16" nut for the aliumn. to bearing spacing which puts the bearing almost centered on the rod, and the u-bolt and hose is mentioned here.. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137440&postcount=208
the hose is only used as you said to hold the bearing into place.

Joe, You do great work. I enjoy your build log.


Would you post the your plan and parts list with measurements.

Thanks RonI have not done a set of plans, what i did was draw the basic drawings in acad then imported dwg into siolid works extruded to proper thickness and then created the assemblies to make sure everything is lined up and works properly, If someone would like to make detailed drawings then they can from the dwg files or the solidworks files, I really do not have the time to sit down right now to make the drawings maybe later on i can.

Joe,
I have just sat and read the whole post including the links posted. You are truely a man of vision and more over an acheiver, I looked a building a CNC router a few years ago I did the, "research eBay for slide and steppers" thing.. looked into geko drivers and ended up with analisys paralasys (Sp) late last year I decided on buying a Dayton 8x4ft router table off eBay todate it still is in transit I have phoned customs and I should have my baby in the next two weeks. Once again congrats. could you e-mail me as I would been keen to chat with you saly72@tsn.cc

Joe,
I have just sat and read the whole post including the links posted. You are truely a man of vision and more over an acheiver, I looked a building a CNC router a few years ago I did the, "research eBay for slide and steppers" thing.. looked into geko drivers and ended up with analisys paralasys (Sp) late last year I decided on buying a Dayton 8x4ft router table off eBay todate it still is in transit I have phoned customs and I should have my baby in the next two weeks. Once again congrats. could you e-mail me as I would been keen to chat with you saly72@tsn.cc

I liked Joe's New Router so much, I'm buying one of his kits.

Steve

It is a really nice machine.

Joe check your pm

Are there kits available?

Hi, Joe

Could you send me the DXF or DWG files.
I down loaded the E- Drawing plans but am having trouble opening them.

e-mail rcarroll10@cfl.rr.com

Thanks, Ron

A Word of causion, Wear safety goggle when using a dremel, I got a metal shaving in my left eye when i was cutting off the Bolts for the Z Axis, and after trying a couple of eye wash kits from walgreens and waiting to see it it would come out i ended up going to the med clinic where they say a metal shaving in the clear portion of my eye with a small rust ring aroung it. They used an eye scraper and got most of it out, so after 150.00 later i am typing this with one blurry eye, should be cleared up in a couple of days.

Joe

Joe,

Your a very lucky man. Be thankful you got away with only $150 and a clean healthy eye. One of my cousins was a machinest and got a metal shaving in his eye. He was told because of the location they couldn't take it out. He went prograssively blind in that eye, and if that wasn't enough, it effected the other optic nerve till he is now legally blind in both eyes. He can still see shadows and stuff.

Always wear your safety stuff.

Steven

Hi all.

Joe,

I know all about eye protection. Before I got into computers and addicted to, then wasted a lot omf money training in. (MCSE, NT4, CCNA, CCNP ETC) i worked in factories, welding etc (yea i can weld mig, tig, arc).

[long boring story]

But because i was young and stupid i didint wear eye protection most of the time. Now i have a permenate 'squigle' burned into the clear part of my eye. Luckly it is off to one side & out of most of my vision. (plus serveral others oin the coloured and white part)

It does become annoying when you get tied. cos for some reason i "see" it or notice it and my brain (small one it is) automaticlly then looks at it and tries to follow it. Which allways makes me laugh cos i ask myself everytime why is that thing moving. THis is slap my head (doh)

[/long boring stoy]

So I now allways where eye protection.

CH

Shop Notes magazine has a two page article (pgs 22 & 23) called "top-notch results with MDF'. If you don't take this one you should stop by a magazine shop and take a quick glance. I think it is a very good article and it gives some good insights to improving MDF projects.

joe don't throw away those rusty old pipes! they are actually stainless, you just can't see it right now... :D

just had to...

I had a "near-miss" today myself. didn't even know I was that quick but a wood chip flew right towards my eye. everything else after that is a blur, but my neck is real sore now... I was afraid I was going to topple the machine over and the router might start doing some REAL damage at 10krpm but luckilly my spine decided to jolt me in the opposite direction of the machine. and the REALLY REALLY REEEAAALLLYYY worrying part is that I've got the stupid goggles in my toolkit!

joe don't throw away those rusty old pipes! they are actually stainless, you just can't see it right now... :D

just had to...

I had a "near-miss" today myself. didn't even know I was that quick but a wood chip flew right towards my eye. everything else after that is a blur, but my neck is real sore now... I was afraid I was going to topple the machine over and the router might start doing some REAL damage at 10krpm but luckilly my spine decided to jolt me in the opposite direction of the machine. and the REALLY REALLY REEEAAALLLYYY worrying part is that I've got the stupid goggles in my toolkit!


Dobar dan, Posix, you are a very lucky guy.

Stay safe

Steve

.............. and the REALLY REALLY REEEAAALLLYYY worrying part is that I've got the stupid goggles in my toolkit!

As my brother would say, "At least your toolkit won't lose an eye!". :D

As my brother would say, "At least your toolkit won't lose an eye!". :D

well, there's an angle :D

Well I'm embarresed to say I made a mistake in my New Model 2006, I had put the bottom torsion box on 180° in the wrong direction if you look at the original pictures of the assembly and the original e-drawing you will noticed the Working bed in not centered with the gantry, you can kinda line it up with the ribs, in doing this it made me manufacture the CNC End Pieces Incorectly when measureing them in solid works, I have corrected it and will post the new E-Drawing reflecting it, I hope this does not cause anyone any problems (I guess everyone makes a mistake now and then. I am currently cutting my new end pieces and finishing the machine.

When I redesigned the machine to be a lighter version it was like starting all over again, but this will work out great.

Antone who wants the New DWG files I imported into Solid works just let me know by e-mail and i will send it to you.

joecnc2006 (at) yahoo.com

thanks, Joe

Here is the New E-drawing

http://www.lumenlab.com/~joe2000chevy/CNC_Model_2006_R-1/Joes_CNC_Model_2006_R-2.EASM

Joe

Have you considered belleville washers to keep a constant force on your skate bearning slides. Have used them in industry to keep a constant force on bolts, kind of like having a compression spring under each nut but a more compact arrangement. Can vary the force by the number of washers used,

thought i would empty my camera out and post some build pictures.

1st ones are of the bearing blocks and motor mount for the Z Axis, notice the bearings are turned inward this way i will have double 1/2"-10 acme nuts on the inside top and bottomwhich will serve the same purpose as the Y axis and X axis on the outside to hold the lead screw in place and take load from motors. (4) 1/4"-20 x 2.5" bolt was used through the assembly and bolts into the motor mount walls.

2nd set is the Y Asix bearing blocks and motor mount with bearings facing outward.

Have you considered belleville washers to keep a constant force on your skate bearning slides. Have used them in industry to keep a constant force on bolts, kind of like having a compression spring under each nut but a more compact arrangement. Can vary the force by the number of washers used,

I have not tried them

If I have followed your posts it appears you started with 3/4" drill rod for the Z axis as you were going to use bushings. The final version went to skate bearings for the Z; any problems changing from drill rod back to pipe (~ 3/4")

You have asked the question several time how much should I charge for a kit. Was really amazed by the reply or lack of you received. My recommendation is to ignor the do it real cheap (free) or must consider freight, etc. Making kits for other's is not a hobby, you have gone beyond everones expectation in the plans you offer - other charge $25+ for a lot, lot worst packages! It should be worth your time, pay for machine wear and tear, etc. If I were doing it I would charge between $35 and $50 per hr. of routing time. This time would start when you started the computer until the parts were stacked in a box for shipping. Then I would charge $10-$15 hr for the assoc tasks like shipping, picking up material, etc. If you were feeling really generous you could take time to route 2 kits and divide by 2. Wouldn't really worry about shipping as even in a kit don't think it is feasible to ship. People would drive a couple of hrs to pick up which would open your market to Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth (should be great market as there is a lot of tool and die maker type there in the aircraft industry.

If I have followed your posts it appears you started with 3/4" drill rod for the Z axis as you were going to use bushings. The final version went to skate bearings for the Z; any problems changing from drill rod back to pipe (~ 3/4")

You have asked the question several time how much should I charge for a kit. Was really amazed by the reply or lack of you received. My recommendation is to ignor the do it real cheap (free) or must consider freight, etc. Making kits for other's is not a hobby, you have gone beyond everones expectation in the plans you offer - other charge $25+ for a lot, lot worst packages! It should be worth your time, pay for machine wear and tear, etc. If I were doing it I would charge between $35 and $50 per hr. of routing time. This time would start when you started the computer until the parts were stacked in a box for shipping. Then I would charge $10-$15 hr for the assoc tasks like shipping, picking up material, etc. If you were feeling really generous you could take time to route 2 kits and divide by 2. Wouldn't really worry about shipping as even in a kit don't think it is feasible to ship. People would drive a couple of hrs to pick up which would open your market to Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth (should be great market as there is a lot of tool and die maker type there in the aircraft industry.

you could use pipe if you like the OD of drill rod is 3/4" which is the ID of the pipe, so you would need to reduce the size of pipe.

thanks for the kind words, I would think that when people start to make this machine them selves they start to relize how much time and work it does take to make a good machine. I will take your recomendations into consideration.

Thanks, Joe

Here is the New E-drawing

http://www.lumenlab.com/~joe2000chevy/CNC_Model_2006_R-1/Joes_CNC_Model_2006_R-2.EASM

Joe

Joe:

I downloaded the above edrawing. It appears that the X-axis torsion box is not perpendicular to the gantry. Check a side view and let me know if you are seeing the same thing.

Thanks,

Wolfspaw

Joe:

I downloaded the above edrawing. It appears that the X-axis torsion box is not perpendicular to the gantry. Check a side view and let me know if you are seeing the same thing.

Thanks,

Wolfspaw


Yes you were right, i must have deleted the parallel mate in solidworks, i have it corrected and you can download it now.

Thanks, Joe

As I can print with my printer the pieces using Edrawings?

Saludos.

As I can print with my printer the pieces using Edrawings?

Saludos.

you can not print individual pieces with e-drawings.

As I can make it?
Do you have a pdf like Jgro?

Thanks
PD:I want to begin to already build the router CNC!!! :frown:

Please put the measures of the cut of each piece.

In the plans there are not measures.

Greetings.

Please put the measures of the cut of each piece.

In the plans there are not measures.

Greetings.

I am not providing plans, if you like to take the dwg files i gave you and diminsion then then thats fine.

Ok.

I already have very well everything alone I lack to know the thickness of the wood used MDF.

Is it worth me that of 16mm or that of 19mm for the cut of all the pieces?

Greetings.
Thanks

Here are some e-drawings of different assemblies which I hope will help people visually to see in detail more of the individual areas of the machine. and can measure areas needed.

http://www.lumenlab.com/~joe2000chevy/CNC_Model_2006_R-1/Joes_CNC_Model_2006_Assemblies.zip

Joe

Thanks. :)

Saludos.

Hi Joe,
I am not very well versed in mechanic's so pardon what may be very obvious answers. Anyway, what keeps the 1/2" leadscrew from wearing inside the bearing? Is there a seperate bushing or collar between the rod and the bearing? And as long as I'm asking what keeps the leadscrew in place and from working out of the end supports?
Thanks from a mechanically challanged (but curious) newbie.
BR

Hi Joe,
I am not very well versed in mechanic's so pardon what may be very obvious answers. Anyway, what keeps the 1/2" leadscrew from wearing inside the bearing? Is there a seperate bushing or collar between the rod and the bearing? And as long as I'm asking what keeps the leadscrew in place and from working out of the end supports?
Thanks from a mechanically challanged (but curious) newbie.
BR
a bouble 1/2"-10 nuts on each end keeps the leadscrew from moving and also kinda locks it into the 1/2" bearings inside the bearing blocks. Would be a long time before that wears out and also cheap to replace.

Joe

Joe,
I get the part about the leadscrew just riding in the bearing but I'm not sure on the rest of your description. Is there a picture posted that shows what you are explaining?
Thanks BR

Joe,
I get the part about the leadscrew just riding in the bearing but I'm not sure on the rest of your description. Is there a picture posted that shows what you are explaining?
Thanks BR

Double nut system...

Joe....you've done a great job in getting these guys all whipped up in a frenzy....it definitely appears that your design if better then JRGO....which I consider as an entry system.....

Joe....you've done a great job in getting these guys all whipped up in a frenzy....it definitely appears that your design if better then JRGO....which I consider as an entry system.....

Thanks you very much, the jgro was an example i started from which is great, I wanted to be able to provide an above average wood machine for people starting out and would do most of what a diy'r would need to cut wood and other materials,

I have another guy that even cuts alumn on my older second machine if you remember that one, so i'm sure this one will have no problems with the proper bit and feed rates.

I hope i have accomplished my goal...

Hi All,

Please dont take this the wrong way.
I read this and got a little upset. I may have readitthe wrong way but here goes.

Joe....you've done a great job in getting these guys all whipped up in a frenzy....it definitely appears that your design if better then JRGO....which I consider as an entry system.....

I would just like to point out that the Jgro IS an entry system that can be cut and made with, virtually a hand saw. (although i wouldnt want to do it that way.) (( also i believe that it is actually described that way)) and even Joe has said that this design requires another CNC to cut the parts it requires.

Please dont degrade the Jrgo Design or Joe for that matter comparing them. THey are at two different ends of the wood building spectrum. One can be build by hand the other needs a CNC to cut the parts.

Please dont take this the wrong way, i am building the Jrgo at the moment and intend to use it to learn on then to build this design as i think it would be better to Mill the thicker bits of alluminum i need. (plus it looks like great fun to build)

Please give credit where credit is due.
Joe. I give you credit, you have built a design that i think is really good. Only time will tell if everybody agrees. Also thank you for making you plans open to everyone.

JRGO, i am building your design to get into this very addictive hobby. Thank you for making the plans open for many people to build and learn from.

[end semi rant]

Chris

I have read many of Vipers post and I'm sure he is giving everyone credit, as he is meaning both machines are limited to its own contruction, afterall you can only go so far with a wood machine... alto I do have plans in my mind for a 4'x8' wood machine.... that is in the future, but people only have so much room.... :)

I have read many of Vipers post and I'm sure he is giving everyone credit, as he is meaning both machines are limited to its own contruction, afterall you can only go so far with a wood machine... alto I do have plans in my mind for a 4'x8' wood machine.... that is in the future, but people only have so much room.... :)

That's a Great Idea a 4X8 wooden machine!

Steve

EURKEKA!!!!!!! The bulb is lit (dimly for me), but hey I now see what you meant by the double nut set up. Next question. What material did you use for the 1/2" spacers on the axis bearing assemblies. Is it a plastic, brass, etc? It looks as though the 1/2" spacer and the outside washer & nut pinch the skate bearing on the inside race. This allows the outside of the bearing to run freely on the drill rod/rail assembly. Am I correct with this assumption? Thanks again
BR

EURKEKA!!!!!!! The bulb is lit (dimly for me), but hey I now see what you meant by the double nut set up. Next question. What material did you use for the 1/2" spacers on the axis bearing assemblies. Is it a plastic, brass, etc? It looks as though the 1/2" spacer and the outside washer & nut pinch the skate bearing on the inside race. This allows the outside of the bearing to run freely on the drill rod/rail assembly. Am I correct with this assumption? Thanks again
BR

the Z Axis is one 5/16" nut, the Y Axis is a 5.16" Nut and a Lock washer, And the X Axis is 2-5/16" nuts, all using a 5/15" nut and lockwasher on the outside. Using the spacing like this will center the bearing on the pipe railing.

Joe

Hi Joe ,
I hopefully attached the correct file that contains the drawing of the X axis assembly. On the assembly the part in question is called out as the Y axis bearing spacer. Maybe the spacer is really the two 5/16" nuts mentioned in your last thread?
Thanks for your assistance.
BR

Hi Joe ,
I hopefully attached the correct file that contains the drawing of the X axis assembly. On the assembly the part in question is called out as the Y axis bearing spacer. Maybe the spacer is really the two 5/16" nuts mentioned in your last thread?
Thanks for your assistance.
BR

yes cheaper and easiers and works the same in locking the center race of the bearing.

Joe,

Do you have an estimate on what a machine like this would cost to make?

I have access to a CNC for cutting the parts, but I'm new to the idea of building my own machine. I wondered what the end cost would be to complete this project.

I'm a tool maker by trade, but I've been more involved with Wire EDM for some time now (10+ years). I would love to build one of these in a slightly larger table size.

Joe,

Do you have an estimate on what a machine like this would cost to make?

I have access to a CNC for cutting the parts, but I'm new to the idea of building my own machine. I wondered what the end cost would be to complete this project.

I'm a tool maker by trade, but I've been more involved with Wire EDM for some time now (10+ years). I would love to build one of these in a slightly larger table size.with everything prob. looking 800-900 depending on your resources. and of course your time... has a price also.

WOW, I wasn't expecting that.

I was looking at about $250-$300 for steppers and controllers, about $100 for Power Supply, another $60-$80 for MDF, and maybe $100-150 for the extra hardware.
Did I maybe miss a major component? Or, is my estimate on the "extras" off?

The company I work for probably charges $80-100/hour for my time, but I think I can cut myself a deal. :)

WOW, I wasn't expecting that.

I was looking at about $250-$300 for steppers and controllers, about $100 for Power Supply, another $60-$80 for MDF, and maybe $100-150 for the extra hardware.
Did I maybe miss a major component? Or, is my estimate on the "extras" off?

The company I work for probably charges $80-100/hour for my time, but I think I can cut myself a deal. :)extra hardware price is low, just gas pipes will be close to 100 4x17.00 for x axis is 68 then two Y axis and the z axis, plus , bearings, acme nuts, etc. it can add up. prob. close to 100 for mdf. and also don't forget the HDPE which has gone up in price, because or energy, shipping for supplies, so you can see how it adds up but what i do is order the parts when i can. and acumelate them. Others who have built some cnc machines can prob. give an estimate what it cost them also.

You can easily spend $150 on miscellaneous screws, nuts and washers if you don't buy in bulk (50-100) packages. I've spent about $1000 on mine, not counting the $200 for the PC 892.

$175 for Xylotex, $200 for motors, $100-$150 for acme screws. Don't forget couplers to connect the motors to the screws. $5-$30 per screw.

Do you need to build a table or stand for it? $$

Glue and paint? $25-$50

Do you have every tool you'll need? I bought about 6 or 7 forstner bits. $$

Then start adding the cost of wiring, limit switches, cable carrier ($$).


Plan on making some mistakes along the way. $$

It all adds up, and fast.

And, don't forget the PC to run it and a Mach3 license. :)

don't get discouraged though, Everyone i know and hear about that has built a cnc machine is not disapointed by any means, it is a fun hobby/diy or whatever your preference is. its like most things, you expect to cost so much always ends up costing a little more than you thought. (I'm the same way, but I just say what the heck, and I get a WOW factor from people when they see it and say you built that your self and it cut this?) I'm always thinking of what to cut next just for the fun of it...

Joe

The costs do add up. I tried to keep track of them in my build log, but I lost track somewhere along the line.

(2) 6' 1/2-10 Acme Rod (Enco, $22.25 shipped)
(12) 1/2-10 Acme nuts (Enco, $12.80 shipped)
(3) Dumpster AB Nuts W/ Square Flange ($51.00 shipped)
(16) abec-7 Skate Bearings (ebay, $12.90 shipped)
(10) 1/2"x9/8"x3/8" Shielded Ball Bearings (ebay, $15.90 shipped)
(3) 1/4" coupler, Buna-N Spider, 1/2" coupler ($6.30 + $6.30 + $4.08)
(2) 12" x 3/4" Thomson Precision Steel Shaft ($25.30)
(50) 1/4"-20 Steel Tee Nut ($3.89)
(2) Plastic Two-Arm Knob 1/4"-20 ($2.38)
(2) 4'x8' 1/2" Sheet of Birch Plywood ($60)
(1) 2'x4' 1/4" Sheet of Birch Plywood ($8)
(2) 1"x60" Gas Pipe (~$25)
(1) 1/2"x60" Gas Pipe (~$10)
(1) 4' 1.5x1.5 Aluminum Angle ($10)
(6) 10' 1/4-20 Threaded Rod ($15)
Wood Glue & Epoxy (~$10.00)
Misc Screws/Bolts/Nuts ($20)


That comes to $321.10.

I used a bit of MDF that I had laying around, so that isn't added in. That would be an extra $15 for a 4x8 sheet of 1/2".

Then you have to add a power supply, spindle, bits, steppers, and drivers.

My router was $60. You can put together a decent driver/stepper combo for somewhere between $150 and $300, depending on what you want, and how much work you want to do yourself. I buy my endmills off eBay for about $5 each. For my power supply, I got a 24V transformer for $15, rectifier for $5, and capacitor for $8 all from a surplus electronics store.

Thanks for all the info. I can honestly say, after looking over this thread, I probably got a bit over excited. All I've been thinking about (and dreaming about for that matter) is all the various things that I can start making with this sort of set-up.

It's kinda nice to hear all this. Maybe now I can get some sleep tonight. :>)

I have quite a decent assortment of tools (bits, saws, router, planer, ect.) So that type of stuff shouldn't be a problem for me. I even have an old IBM Thinkpad with a docking station that my wife has tried to convince me to throw away for years now.

When I finally decide to give it a go, I'll be sure to post my progress here.

BTW...Joe, I can't thank you enough for all the inspiration you've given me with this project.

Well, this is my first post here at this forum, and I wanted to say that you've done a fine job not only designing this router, but also documenting and diagramming it's assembly.

That being said, I also have a degree in Economics and a minor in Business, so I figured I'd help you figure out how you should cost your kits. IMO, $35-50/hr for 'router time' is borderline ridiculous, unless you want to guarantee that you'll never sell a single kit...

There's two sets of costs you have to figure into your kits, your fixed and variable costs.

Your fixed costs consist of:
1. Cost to build your CNC router
2. Time to design and create your CNC plans to build the parts

Your variable costs consist of:
1. Materials costs
2. Routing time (electricity)
3. Labor (for setting everything up for routing)
4. Depreciation (wear and tear) on your router.

So, in order to cost everything correctly, you need to do some careful measuring as you build another set of parts as to your variable costs for each kit. Your fixed costs are already there, and should be divided up among each kit you plan on building.

For example, if your router cost you $1500 total to build, and you plan on building 200 kits with it (estimated), then divide the total cost by 200 and that will be the fixed router cost applied to each kit. Do the same with your labor hours involved with designing the plans (of course you'll need to figure out what your time is worth in dollars first).

The reason that routing time and labor are different costs is that one is a labor cost and the other is a machine cost. It doesn't take a lot of labor to just set up the machine, then allow the machine to do it's thing while you go on to something else. If you had to route every piece by hand, then it would be within reason to charge the amount suggested per hour.

Once you have all your costs figured out, add in a level of profit you want to make off of each kit (say for instance $150) and add that to the estimated costs, which should bring you up to your final kit price.

One thing to keep in mind (drawing on my Economics experience here)... if you set the price too low, demand for the kits will be too great and you'll quickly see your 'spare time' evaporate into thin air. :D

Set the price too high, and you'll hardly sell any kits... so you'll have to decide what price is a 'happy medium' for you. You can gauge whether or not the price is too low (or too high) with initial kit orders... it's almost better to estimate people's willingness to pay a bit on the 'high' side at first, then drop the price to pick up more sales... this is why retail stores always have 25% off sales and a Clearance rack. ;)

Hope that helps.

Once again, this is a great CNC router... if the kit price is right (for me anyway), I may look into picking one of these up. :)

P.S. To do some of these calculations, you'll have to figure out either square-inch or square-foot materials costs, plus kilowatt-hours of electricity used. It'll probably be quite a bit of work at first, but at least it guarantees that you're not 'undercharging' for anything, and that all of your costs are accounted for, so your profit level is 'free and clear'. You can also figure in your labor hours to build your router, but considering that you probably don't intend to only use the router to build these kits, simply accounting for the wear and tear building each kit causes to the router should be sufficient to cover the majority of the costs.

Oh, and I almost forgot... you'll probably have a fuel cost as well, for going to the home supply store to pick up materials, but, depending on the distance from your residence to the store, this cost could be incidental... but nonetheless it's something you should account for in your variable costs.

As a retired plant manager from a contract manufacturing plant I will have to admit I am a little bit behind the times. Wouldn't say I was "borderline ridiculous" as I did run a company for 30 yrs toll maufacturing speciality chemicals. But recently while watching my grandson, my son's maid came to clean; was a little bit shocked to see she charges $30 per hour. Wonder if she knows all about those fixed and variable charges.

My joke: scientist ask Why, engineers ask How, economic majors ask Do you want frys with that?

LOL. :D

Maybe I did pick a bit too strong of wording... I really didn't mean for it to sound like I was getting on your case... I apologise if it did.

My main point is this... if it takes about 20 hours to CNC the parts, you're looking at between $700 to $1,000 just for the CNC'ing... then add on materials costs, labor, profit margin, etc., and the kit price is going to probably top $1500 to $1800.

Then you have to add steppers, controller, software, etc. (costs figured in by the purchaser), and this kit could end up costing too much, overall, to make many sales.

As far as the maid goes, she's well within her right to sell her labor at $30/hour. Now if she simply had to program a machine in your house and plug in variables for a bunch of equipment to do the work for her, then I'd think that her costing strategy would change (it's a competitive market, ya know).

That's why I suggested that Joe first figure out what his labor is worth, and also figure that in accordingly... I just don't think that figuring in his labor at $35-40/hr (most likely), and also routing time at $35-50/hr is going to make much economic sense if his kit ends up costing what I mentioned above (hence, guaranteeing that he won't sell many).

Now I'm not trying to say that the method I outlined is the one supreme correct way to do this, it's just how I would approach costing something like this.

Oh, and do you want fries with that?
:D

Joe,

Had a thought on this design the other day.

In a previous post it was mentioned that the dust created by the MDF is like flour. Have you concidered making the base (y-axis) sides solid (without the lightening holes) and adding holes to the work top? This would provide a way to add a dust collection port to one end of the base (at the Y+ end). The torsion box with the lightening holes in the center would ensure that you get suction from all areas of the table.

The only problem that I see is the vibration that this MAY cause.

BTW.... I'll be starting my router soon. Can't wait to get it completed.

My main point is this... if it takes about 20 hours to CNC the parts, you're looking at between $700 to $1,000 just for the CNC'ing...

You can't necessarily figure it that way. If two guys are making the same parts, and one guys machine can do a job in 10 hours, and Joe's takes 20 hours, he can't charge double. Well, he can, but he won't get much business. You have to charge a fair market price. If you want to sell kits and you can't make them fast enough, build a faster machine to make them with, or get out of the business.

You can't necessarily figure it that way. If two guys are making the same parts, and one guys machine can do a job in 10 hours, and Joe's takes 20 hours, he can't charge double. Well, he can, but he won't get much business. You have to charge a fair market price. If you want to sell kits and you can't make them fast enough, build a faster machine to make them with, or get out of the business.

That is absolutely correct, And this is a DIY so to speak machine so have to be on the diy'ers budget also. so anything over 700 is just not practical for most people.

Joe,

Had a thought on this design the other day.

In a previous post it was mentioned that the dust created by the MDF is like flour. Have you concidered making the base (y-axis) sides solid (without the lightening holes) and adding holes to the work top? This would provide a way to add a dust collection port to one end of the base (at the Y+ end). The torsion box with the lightening holes in the center would ensure that you get suction from all areas of the table.

The only problem that I see is the vibration that this MAY cause.

BTW.... I'll be starting my router soon. Can't wait to get it completed.


the dust is not a problem with the collector i use now. and I would not want the dust to travel through the torsion box, would create a mess to try to keep clean.

Actually since this has a 7" Z travel , I was thinking of making a vacuum top that would sit right ontop of the cutting bed and be about 1" thich, make different vacuum tunnels for different size pieces, you could use just peg board or something on top for the holes or make your own. (Just a thought)

Hopefully this will be my last post regarding Joe's pricing. One of the problems I have always had with forums in general is that you usually have no idea of the background or experience of people who post. The reason behind my post regarding pricing was that Joe repeatally had asked for suggestions in what he should charge and NO ONE replied. Now I understand why no one wanted to reply, as soon as you do the woods are full of people who then want to shoot it down. My orginal post was:

It should be worth your time, pay for machine wear and tear, etc. If I were doing it I would charge between $35 and $50 per hr. of routing time. This time would start when you started the computer until the parts were stacked in a box for shipping. Then I would charge $10-$15 hr for the assoc tasks like shipping, picking up material, etc.

I may not have stated it clearly, engineers are not famous for their english skills but it was my intent that if it took Joe 1 hr to buy materials at Lowes he would charge $10-15 dollars, if it then took 4 hrs to place the mdf on the router, route, etc that would be $140-200, then another 2 hrs to package and take to post office would be another $20-30. Following my math that is $170 -$245, of course the material is extra!! Don't think anyone would suggest he give that away free. I never said to double charge $35-50 for routing plus $35-50 for Joes time, then see how many other charges you can add: profit, fuel surcharges, etc.

My disappointment is not that someone come up with 20 hrs each (that is almost TWO year of labor for the 200 kits projected) at a cost of $700 then wants to add more charges on top of that, but that no one questions the statement. GER21 has the right answer and I bet it didn't come out of a freshman economic text book. If he can't make them fast enough to so the units will sell he needs to get out of the business. If he just cuts his price he probably won't stay in the business as who wants to work all weekend making someone elses machine and only earn peanuts. I'm not about to give up my weekend working for someone I don't even know for $100-$200. People say this is only a hobby, but when you are making machines for others, that is not a hobby.

Heck, if I could find someone with a big machine who would only charge me $35 per hour of routing time I probably wouldn't be building my own!!!

Heck, if I could find someone with a big machine who would only charge me $35 per hour of routing time I probably wouldn't be building my own!!!

It costs us more than that for the guy standing next to the machine pushing the button. :)

it came to my attention that the g-code i had on my laptop had an older version of the left side of the gantry, the right side g-code was updated the reason was because i was able to shorten the height of the overall gantry by one inch, all my drawing files and g-codes on the cnc machine computer was correct, i just forgot to update my laptop... here is the new left side.

Sent you a PM Joe. After reading all 19 pages here I too am impressed.

I find it amusing to compare a maid cleaning a house with someone running computer controlled machines. For one thing she is well within her right to charge anything she sees fit and everyone is just as free to reject those rates. Now lets look at this little thing called the learning curve. I don't know about you but I learned to clean a toilet in a lot less time than it took to learn CNC applications and coding. I think most would agree (besides my wife) that we can learn to clean the house a lot faster than build a machine and run it.

Reminds me of friends dad that was a Turbine Engine Consultant. He would be called in to troubleshoot new setups and problems. On one job he walked around for a few minutes pulled a piece of chalk out his pocket and marked an X on a piece of the equipment and told them to remove it and reconnect everything. They did and it worked fine. Now when they got his bill for 10 grand or something like that the guy called from the place he consulted asking if this could be correct, 10K for a chalk X mark seemed kind of high. He told him the chalk X was free, knowing where to put the chalk X is what costs 10K.

What is all boils down to is how much time went into learning how to get the output you can create. I think a lot of times we forget to consider the fact of time and money spent learning as a consideration to the price. How much time and money goes into training a maid, how often do you re-tool the broom and mop etc etc. Now think how long it takes to learn code and machining in general much less setup a machine and make it run true and how much you will spend on tooling as well.

You do need to account for all aspects of the cost to try and get a price point that is still a good value without undercutting yourself to do so. I would say try to figure all your costs and then think of what your percentage profit margin will be from each sale. Having an engineering background I am not sure but I think most places won't even bother to produce anything in small quantities without a margin of profit in the 25-33% range.

Or you could just charge $35 and hour for router time and pay the maid $30 an hour to clean up after it netting you a tidy $5 profit before expenses and taxes of course lol.

Good luck and keep up the good work, enjoying this thread.

Bowman


PS.. you could always just say the regular retail value is twice the true value and then sell it for true value rates and act as if your passing the savings along to the customer with such a great deal compared to retail. Companies use this tactic all the time to get those people who would probably never by any item of the sort, unless, its 1/2 of the retail price then many think how can I pass it up. Retailers these days are savy and they overprice in hopes to sell at that margin but still allowing themselves room to come down on the price as though it was out of the kindness of their heart and soul that they will now let you have it for 25% less than retail. In the end they still make the original minimum margin they hoped for when production began and if they do happen to be selling well at the retail margin they will just profit that much more over and above what they had hoped to originally sell it for at minimum anyway.

I just recieved a set of router mounts for my porter cable 7518 from Joe and they fit perfect nice job Joe!

Hopefully this will be my last post regarding Joe's pricing. One of the problems I have always had with forums in general is that you usually have no idea of the background or experience of people who post. The reason behind my post regarding pricing was that Joe repeatally had asked for suggestions in what he should charge and NO ONE replied. Now I understand why no one wanted to reply, as soon as you do the woods are full of people who then want to shoot it down. My orginal post was:

It should be worth your time, pay for machine wear and tear, etc. If I were doing it I would charge between $35 and $50 per hr. of routing time. This time would start when you started the computer until the parts were stacked in a box for shipping. Then I would charge $10-$15 hr for the assoc tasks like shipping, picking up material, etc.

I may not have stated it clearly, engineers are not famous for their english skills but it was my intent that if it took Joe 1 hr to buy materials at Lowes he would charge $10-15 dollars, if it then took 4 hrs to place the mdf on the router, route, etc that would be $140-200, then another 2 hrs to package and take to post office would be another $20-30. Following my math that is $170 -$245, of course the material is extra!! Don't think anyone would suggest he give that away free. I never said to double charge $35-50 for routing plus $35-50 for Joes time, then see how many other charges you can add: profit, fuel surcharges, etc.

My disappointment is not that someone come up with 20 hrs each (that is almost TWO year of labor for the 200 kits projected) at a cost of $700 then wants to add more charges on top of that, but that no one questions the statement. GER21 has the right answer and I bet it didn't come out of a freshman economic text book. If he can't make them fast enough to so the units will sell he needs to get out of the business. If he just cuts his price he probably won't stay in the business as who wants to work all weekend making someone elses machine and only earn peanuts. I'm not about to give up my weekend working for someone I don't even know for $100-$200. People say this is only a hobby, but when you are making machines for others, that is not a hobby.

Heck, if I could find someone with a big machine who would only charge me $35 per hour of routing time I probably wouldn't be building my own!!!

I think there is a vast difference between building and operating a machine as a hobby or a business. If the machine is to provide a living then one can afford to build a better quality machine that produces faster and perhaps more accuratley.

I have been in the custom woodworking business for over 30 years now I generally charge $45 to $55 an hour [less than you get charged for the local mechanic around here ] and that is for ANY time I spend working on the project,that includes getting the required materials . That has to include wear and tear on equipment facility costs taxes work related utilities and including building the codes and any tweaking of the software.

Joe has [from what I have read in this thread ] developed an incredable machine made from off the shelf materials and operating at very low tolerances ,well within the most demanding woodworking requirements .The same equipment from a major machine tool company would probably cost thousands.

Certainly those with this equipment producing in quantity will be able to undercut Joe on a production basis ,but on a custom basis I think not with high overheads retooling and reprogramming costs for short run items it is not feasible for the major manufacturer .


Making Kits for those who want to build Joe's machine is a good start but the numbers are limited . I have found a nitch producing stuff for a limited clientel taht keeps coming back for more . Believe it or not there are a group of people who cannot get what they want regardless of cost

I just recieved a set of router mounts for my porter cable 7518 from Joe and they fit perfect nice job Joe!

Thanks, glad they fit good, with the measurement of the router in MM that you gave me i was able to convert to imperial dec. inches and cut the parts, I always measure in MM then draw and cut in Imperial dec. inches.

Joe

I think there is a vast difference between building and operating a machine as a hobby or a business. If the machine is to provide a living then one can afford to build a better quality machine that produces faster and perhaps more accuratley.

I have been in the custom woodworking business for over 30 years now I generally charge $45 to $55 an hour [less than you get charged for the local mechanic around here ] and that is for ANY time I spend working on the project,that includes getting the required materials . That has to include wear and tear on equipment facility costs taxes work related utilities and including building the codes and any tweaking of the software.

Joe has [from what I have read in this thread ] developed an incredable machine made from off the shelf materials and operating at very low tolerances ,well within the most demanding woodworking requirements .The same equipment from a major machine tool company would probably cost thousands.

Certainly those with this equipment producing in quantity will be able to undercut Joe on a production basis ,but on a custom basis I think not with high overheads retooling and reprogramming costs for short run items it is not feasible for the major manufacturer .


Making Kits for those who want to build Joe's machine is a good start but the numbers are limited . I have found a nitch producing stuff for a limited clientel taht keeps coming back for more . Believe it or not there are a group of people who cannot get what they want regardless of cost

The april issue of "Woodshop News" has a write up of thrree cabinet shops who have bought CNC machines of late . The costs....$150K, $85K,$350K and $425K. Of course that includes software and the machines are bigger and better than Joe's but his machine still performs most of what these pricy versions do ....mjh

Joe, check your PM's....... I can host your video for you and I had a couple other questions :)

Rockler has the 2 1/4 hp Fixed Base Hitachi router on sale for $94.99.
Here is a link:

http://www.rockler.com search for hitachi router

I bought one yesterday.

Steve

I don't think that is variable speed.

***Edited for correctness

The one on sale for $95 is fixed speed.

I don't think that is variable speed.

The M12VC is variable 8,000-24,000 rpm
the M12Sc is single speed 24,000 rpm

I should have read the note more carefully, sorry for the mis-info. :( The manual also states right above what I quoted "for the M12VC only"
I'll edit my post....

Out of curiousity (and people have asked me) How Many people are looking at building the CNC Model 2006.

maybe list the stage you are at, your building schedule, are you cutting it on cnc or by hand, maybe some slight improvements or additions you have thought about and implimenting.

Also those planning but not started yet. I'm kinda looking forward to seeing some (Joe's CNC Model 2006) poping up...... LOL

Also some people have asked if i could cut templets for them and they use a flush router to make the rest (those with wood working skills).

Thanks, Joe

In Progress. With some minor changes, dual x-screws, long travel x/y. Different rail mounting method, etc... I have a build log with pics...
_Jon

Thinking about it .I have read every post in this thread several times .I have no electronics skills at all so that end is an uphill battle [I must say the electronic club has been a great help in this respect] .I do have a reasonably well equipped woodworking shop and am pretty confident I could build the machine .I do like the machining qualities of MDF although the strength characteristcs leave a lot to be desired. Rather than attempt threading it and screwing into the edges often results in separation [evident in several pictures ] I will drill through holes and use nuts and bolts wherever possible . One question you seem to use quite a bit of HDPE [I am assuming that stands for high density poly ethylene] what is the source for that material ?
Again I have given quite a bit of thought to using a single pipe with the bearings spring loaded with bellville washers . The torque generated in the X axis by the cutters resistance to acme nut drive force which in turn tries to tilt the gantry is taken out by differential forces applied to the pipes by the bearings. This movement is minimized with any increase in the distance between the fore and aft bearings, however for any given lenght of machine the greater this is the smaller the working area .

In my mind the best way to minimize this torque is to attempt to get the acme drive nut on or about the same X,Y, plane as the cutter . As different Z axis settings are always a possibility moving the X axis drive up from the bottom of the base table to at least the top of the table or slightly above that would minimize the moment and essentially end up with an axial nut load. As with everything it is a trade off, the suggested arrangement wpold result in two leadscrews driving the gantry sides . The question in my mind is can both screws be driven by a single motor [through a belt drive or the like] or would it be necessary to use two motors ,one slaved to the other [hopefully with zero lag ]

one other question if I may, what is the bed depth ?

Many thanks Joe for your efforts ,,,mjh

Some further thought I might be an idea to check the static CG position of the gantry .ideally it should be be centered between the track fore and aft bearing pairs. The gantry " torsion box" has undergone modifications and so presumably has the CG as a result. It would seem to me advantageous to have a unidirectional distributed load on the tracks and bearings to ensure smooth operation and optimum wear ...mjh

Cutting forces are probably more important than the CG, and they would apply to the pivot point where the bearings are mounted. Cutting forces are amplified because the Z-axis acts like a lever. On our large commercial machine at work, I've seen the entire 500 lb head that the spindle is atached to actually lift up when plunging with a 1/2" diameter bit.

I am in the planning stage, have studied all your great drawings. I would be interested in the templates, if available.
Wally

In Progress. With some minor changes, dual x-screws, long travel x/y. Different rail mounting method, etc... I have a build log with pics...
_Jon

Looked at your plog, with a larger motor and pully system it looks like it should work well with the double leadscrew for the long axis, Also looks like you changed to the double rail pipe system I have running now, You will be happy with it I'm sure. It just makes the gantry much more solid.

Joe

mike hide,

I get the HDPE locally here in town. Most Plastic deistributors will carry it, I
Would also be very Hesitant about using the bellville washers, because you want the gantry to be locked into the bearing slides and this might lead to shifting of the gantry while in motion and cutting.the whole reason of the double rail system is to prevent gantry movement and help stabilize it.


Whallyh,

I can help you with what ever you feel you need.



joe

Cutting forces are probably more important than the CG, and they would apply to the pivot point where the bearings are mounted. Cutting forces are amplified because the Z-axis acts like a lever. On our large commercial machine at work, I've seen the entire 500 lb head that the spindle is atached to actually lift up when plunging with a 1/2" diameter bit.

With some knowledge of loads what you describe [some what scary] this condition will occur whan plunging too quickly or using a bit that is not designed to plunge .

As I see it the moment is generated [in normal operation] by the cutting forces at the cutting tool which will vary with material, depth of cut and feed rate times the distance from the cutting tool and the acme drive nut .

This torque is counteracted by the bearings on the truck running on the black pipe, one end with a downward force the other with an upward force . According to the direction of the cutting action this moment direction will vary. What I had in mind was in effect to reduce the lever arm [cutter to acme nut distance ] and in turn the magnitude of the moment . To do this I anticipated moving the nut axis as close to the cutter axis as I could within reason,basically moving the nut drive from the bottom of the bed to the top .

As you mentioned probably the cutting forces have more influence than the CG situation, however it would still be nice in my estimation to have it within the fore and aft bearings rather than having one set have a harder life than the other ...mjh

I would be interested in the templates also. Joe what would you estimate the tolerance you can hold? Within .015 or + or - .015 is my guess.

I would say there abouts maybe a little better.

Joe

I would be interested in the templates also. Joe what would you estimate the tolerance you can hold? Within .015 or + or - .015 is my guess.