To those with problems viewing Buzz0975's web pages via MSIE. Close MSIE and then through control panel, or some other means, clear IE's browser cache (Temporary Internet Files). When the cache is cleared, fire up MSIE and try loading Buzz0975's pages again to see if it makes a difference.


HTH,

Sorry No Change....

Cheers

Buzz,

I viewed your new pages and pictures just fine on my end using MSIE 6. Then again, I didn't have to clear out any temporary internet files since I hadn't used MSIE to view them before (GO, FireFox!). I had seen that happening before with MSIE on other websites, though.

Another thought... I used MSIE 6, what is everyone else using? Maybe it's an MSIE 7 issue for everyone else?

In MSIE 6 and previous versions there is a setting to "Check for newer versions of stored pages:", other visitors to your site experiencing the inability to view newer items you've posted may want to change this setting to "Every visit to the page" to see if it helps. Note that this setting may slow down page refreshes and subsequent visits to the page. On high speed connections this won't be noticeable, but on a slow connection the delay may be intolerable. I'm sure MSIE 7 has a similar setting but I'm not sure since I haven't used it at all.

Have fun,

works in IE now, nice photos

Buzz,

I viewed your new pages and pictures just fine on my end using MSIE 6. Then again, I didn't have to clear out any temporary internet files since I hadn't used MSIE to view them before (GO, FireFox!). I had seen that happening before with MSIE on other websites, though.

Another thought... I used MSIE 6, what is everyone else using? Maybe it's an MSIE 7 issue for everyone else?

In MSIE 6 and previous versions there is a setting to "Check for newer versions of stored pages:", other visitors to your site experiencing the inability to view newer items you've posted may want to change this setting to "Every visit to the page" to see if it helps. Note that this setting may slow down page refreshes and subsequent visits to the page. On high speed connections this won't be noticeable, but on a slow connection the delay may be intolerable. I'm sure MSIE 7 has a similar setting but I'm not sure since I haven't used it at all.

Have fun,

I Just rebooted machine and went to IE and was able to load OK.

I have not been able to get in yet using firefox but will keep trying to figure it out .
Sorry for any false trails I sent you on to-nite....

Cheers....Doug

Hopefully everyone gets to see the web page. Working a lot with my machine tonight and I have to say Joe's idea of circling only the cutter is working fantastically. Tool changer works great, dust is picked up more (not perfectly but much better than before), so far dust is not getting caught in the changer.... and the best part I am no where near my clamps.

NP Doug, keeps the gray matter out of the brain :)
A few people in the past have complained about my code and firefox, I have never spent any time to see what the problem is with my code... It is rather simplistic as it is all generated from a batch file processing a directory full of pictures with basic HTML code in a an ASP file (used to get the counters going).

Buzz9075,

It seems to have something to do with your use of forward slashes (/) and back slashes (\) when you generate the HTML code for your pages.

When clicking on the "New Dust Collector 2" graphic the link gets parsed differently in FireFox and MSIE. When clicking on the link with MSIE the following URL appears:

"http://99.224.51.73/thephillips/PhotoGallery/CncMachine/NewDustCollector/NewDustCollector.asp"

The same click in FireFox generates this URL for the subsequent browser page:

"http://99.224.51.73/thephillips/PhotoGallery/CncMachine/NewDustCollector%5CNewDustCollector.asp"
(note the %5C entered in the FireFox link where the / is in the MSIE link)

Looking at the HTML code for the page it looks like you have mixed cases of the / and \. MSIE is correctly correcting for the altered / or \ while FireFox is not. If you copy and paste the page URL from MSIE to FireFox the page displays correctly with all of the graphics except for your page counter.


Here's a snippet of your HTML code:

<td>
<Center>
<H1></H1>
<H2></H2>
<A HREF="Cribbage/Cribbage.asp"><IMG SRC="Cribbage\LowResPics\img_0202.JPG" Width="300" ></A><BR>Cribbage boards
</Center>
</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>
<Center>
<H1></H1>
<H2></H2>
<A HREF="Sequence\Sequence.asp"><IMG SRC="Sequence\LowResPics\img_0223.JPG" Width="300" ></A><BR>Sequence Game
</Center>
</td>
<td>
<Center>
<H1></H1>
<H2></H2>
<A HREF="NewDustCollector\NewDustCollector.asp"><IMG SRC="NewDustCollector\LowResPics\DustHood4002.JPG" Width="300" ></A><BR>New Dust Collector 2
</Center>
</td>

Note the bold and red code I emphasized from your pages code. The code for the "Cribbage Boards" displays correctly while the "Sequence Game" and "New Dust Collector 2" pages do not. You've got a forward slash (/)for the cribbage code while the two pages with display problems have a back slash (\). Give the code a quick tweak and you should reduce your browser display problems except for the page counter. You're on your own on that one. :)


:cheers:

You are da man. I made the modifications you indicate. Thanks for looking at this. Had to be the only piece I insert by had, the reset I have scripted. Amazing how some things can be reference with \ or / but others are specifically /.

Thanks again.

Joe,

I have been trying to get in contact with you again and I am not receiving messages from you. Last time they were in your spam folder.

I have not heard from you in a while and I would like an update on my kit.

Thanks,

Matt

Joe,

I have been trying to get in contact with you again and I am not receiving messages from you. Last time they were in your spam folder.

I have not heard from you in a while and I would like an update on my kit.

Thanks,

Matt

Me Too.

I've worked my way through this thread and my perusal of the forums hasn't brought me an answer to a question thats bugging me. This was brought up a bit on page 102 in regards to a new type of rail design.
Phooddaniel has a series of walkthrough videos over on www.buildyourcnc.com
that used 90 degree rails of the same material as most of you seem to use in making your roller skate-bearing fixtures. In one of his videos he comments that the angle'd rail design seems to be working better than his previous machine that used the traditional rollerskate-on-pipe method.
This leads on to something that i've seen several times on this thread. The subject of wearing on the rail. Obviously using a pipe rail the rollers are only making contact with the rail over a very small surface area, which results in increased wearing. I know joe himself said that he hasn't had much of an issue with this but obviously others are having bother with it.
Even being a cnc newbie i can see that in terms of strength joe's design, which his torsion bow and double rails, is a much sturdier design that Phooddaniel's(no disrespect, it seems to be an ideal entry design for entry level builders that has all of the key components one would want without being overly complex).
However it would seem to me that an ideal situation would be a design like joe's with the sturdy frame but using 90 degree rails like Phooddaniel's. After all if the rollers are fulling engaging with the rail surely that would make for decreased wear and more reliability, and who really wants to have to rotate their pipe rails over so often because that one part where the roller engages has worn it flat?
I haven't seen any other designs that use this 90 degree rail though and all due respect to the fact that joe's and other designs have proven successful for the many folks that have built them, i ask you; am i completely off here in my thinking?

Well the way I see it Jii Dee is that steel skates running on soft alum (first picture) don't quite cut the mustard, talk about wear!! Not to mention the cost of alum now days. I've ran skate wheels on a single black steel gas pipe (see picture 2 & 3) for two years and haven't noticed any wear yet (the paint wore off), but then I didn't run it for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week either and most folks don't. Its a hobbie thing!! I'd go for steel gas pipe in a cheap design like this. By the time you might see some wear, you'll be ready to build another anyway....its addictive...this building thing never stops. Always looking for the better mouse trap kind of thing, but its good that you do put some thought to these things. I work around cnc machines every day of the week that cost thousands of dollars and even they wear out and get sloppy, nature of the beasts, you use em and they wear....but for a hobbie machine like this, I think it has alot going for it, even with gas pipe. My hats off to Joe for a pretty neat design. Thanks Joe!!!

Cheers
dewalt58

I just created a Yahoo User Group, to help consolidate the Info, all files, work pieces, mods, machine pics, finished machines, etc.

This may help people since this forum grew so big.

Invite people to come join.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joescnc

Thanks, Joe

what would we nee to do to get a chat room that would also be great???

Thought this might be interesting to some who have their Dust collection setup in another room or outside of their garage/workshop.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5117

Joe

Thought this might be interesting to some who have their Dust collection setup in another room or outside of their garage/workshop.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5117

Joe

Thanks Joe, Been there, got that :). They are very nice, especially where I have the workshop spread out on both sides of the basement. The only problem I have found (and this isn't related to the remote) is that I will sometimes blow the 20amp breaker turning on the dust collector. They do sometimes throw very large initial currents to start the motor moving. Gotta get around to rewiring the place and get rid of the 60amp service and put in a 200amp one.

I use this one...

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pics/jpeg288/g/g4699.jpg (http://www.grizzly.com/products/g4699)

This one looks interesting too... and cheap.
http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pics/jpeg288/h/h2797.jpg (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h2797)

I've also seen them on ebay for as little as $10 opening bid. But these may be the cheep Chinese knockoffs with the lead paint

I made a wired one from an extension cord and a couple of electrical boxes. One box has the switch and one the outlet. The long orange tail keeps me from losing the switch :-).

For my dust collector I wired up a relay with a 24 Vac coil and put low voltage switches where I had ports. I am working on putting some sort of contact switch on the gates and getting rid of the manual switches. The problem with the remote is that you have to remember where you last left it;(

I automated my system by installing a current sensing transformer that the hot side of the line voltage for tools that require dustcollection runs through. When a machine is switched on the DC comes on and when it is switched off there is a adj.timer to let it run for 15 sec. to clear the ducts. The current transformer switches a controll circuit to engage a 220 volt contactor, it does not switch the DC. This was not real cheap,about $150, but oh so convienient.

I would like to know how much for the just the plastic parts kit..

Thank you.

curtis

DeweyDog,
Outstanding project. I want that setup. :)


I automated my system by installing a current sensing transformer that the hot side of the line voltage for tools that require dustcollection runs through. When a machine is switched on the DC comes on and when it is switched off there is a adj.timer to let it run for 15 sec. to clear the ducts. The current transformer switches a controll circuit to engage a 220 volt contactor, it does not switch the DC. This was not real cheap,about $150, but oh so convienient.

Joe,
I have a nagging question about the X limits of the Joe2006. What is the limitation to extending the X-axis of your design? Acme screws? Gas pipes?

It seems that extending the X-axis by lengthening the bed would be a structurally sound method of gaining more X length.

Oh, I'm still looking forward to the second debut of the 4X4, but for those guys that want to build in MDF, I'm wondering about this option.
Dave

I have a feeling it is mostly the leadscrew. Over extending it more would be pushing it on that particular rod. Building the 4x4 in mdf (if that's what you mean) isn't all that an option as it is primarily metal. However it is what I would say a bolt-together build and as strong and powerful as it is the machine isn't that hard to put together. So far it has been cheaper to construct and put together than the 06 with a much larger cutting area and a much sturdier, and faster machine. The 4x4 is very basic requires basic tools and if you already have the 06, cutting the parts needed will be easy. I've found it to be easier to build than the 06 believe it or not. :) Anyone else enjoy joe's teaser video? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KJ-qIW1s3A&feature=related

Joe,
I have a nagging question about the X limits of the Joe2006. What is the limitation to extending the X-axis of your design? Acme screws? Gas pipes?

It seems that extending the X-axis by lengthening the bed would be a structurally sound method of gaining more X length.

Oh, I'm still looking forward to the second debut of the 4X4, but for those guys that want to build in MDF, I'm wondering about this option.
Dave

If you extend the X-Axis I would definitely go with the 2tpi acme screws and dumpster nuts as you see in my new 4x4 video.

Joe

4 hrs of machining time, done on the 4x4 slowed down to 60ipm so i did not have to babysit the machine, cutout for the Model 2006.

Joe

That's some great looking parts. Nicely done.

Joe,

Can you check your private messages and tell me if you got the message about my kit?

Thanks,

Matt

Joe,

Can you check your private messages and tell me if you got the message about my kit?

Thanks,

Matt

Matt,

Forget the PM and email your request to Joe directly via the following after you fix it up ;)

joecnc2006 at yahoo . com

You'll, no doubt, receive a much quicker response.

IHTH,

Joe,
whats the thickest piece of HDPE you are using on this machine...and where do you buy it?I'm looking at Mcmaster-Carr right now, and the prices are pretty expensive..

So what is the sheet size that you buy? or more specifically what was the starting dimension of the sheets you used when you started? (rough estimate maybe?)

3/4 HDPE, he buys it in full sheets now..

You can score some good deals on ebay, check locally to save on shipping though. I get mine from http://www.smallparts.com/ but there are a few other sources people might post too. Check joe's latest photo of a nest he is doing now (3 hours or so I think he said) for the kits to see just how big his sheets are!

I'm having no luck at all with tapping HDPE. Is there a trick or do you use a larger drill size? The Tap just strips out and will not cut the internal threads.

I'm having no luck at all with tapping HDPE. Is there a trick or do you use a larger drill size? The Tap just strips out and will not cut the internal threads.


I use the 1/4 tap i got from lowes for 5 dollars i think, it came with the correct size tap drill bit, I drill the holes with this in the drill press, then I use my black and decker reversable drill, and you get the fill of how long to hold the triger and release, then just flip the reverse and the tap comes right out, works everytime. You may want to practice a couple of times on some scrap 1st, then when you have it down pat you can do the parts.

Also note: i do this with the part in my left hand, and drill in right hand, i do not clamp the parts down or anything, this lets the part float somewhat and lets the drill do the work. If you like i can shot a short video showing me doing it?


http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=8144

Joe

Sounds like just what I was trying. Can tap Aluminum, Mild Steel, but HDPE has been a challenge. I'll try again with a #7 bit, or may try a 13/64th.

I used a cheap set of taps I got from HF. It didn't come with the #7 drill bit so I used a 3/16 bit I think. It left more HDPE then I needed and it was hard to turn the tap, but created a really good thread when I was done.

Got it to work this morning. don't know what I was doing wrong the first 3 times I tried ,but went back and it worked this time. Thanks JOE.

Joe,

My first part for the machine is being cut tomorrow! during my first block tech class. My teacher said for the second half of the year we could build anything we wanted....the first thing that came to my mind: Joe CNC!

Heres the problem:
The school has a wonderful cnc made by Techno-Isel, and on their website it says its capable of doing 250 ipm. The end mill I purchased is 2-3/4" long, 4 flute, centercutting, carbide with a Titanium Nitride cover. My teacher runs the machine at 40 ipm, and I definitely have a feeling that this bit (being shorter which makes it more rigid) is capable of cutting at somewhere around 65+(at least) ipm, taking .25" passes. What's your opinion?

Based on the bit specifications, the depth of the pass, and the capabilities of the machine....how fast do you think it could cut MDF?



P.S. I apolegize if my questions seem somewhat frivolous and stupid, but I am only a sophomore in high school and my experience is limited.

over 300ipm should be no problem at .25" depth

joe

Ok. Basically, you're gonna wanna turn the machine on, hit the down key a lot so it boots into Linux, then open up the CNC program. Then, you're basically gonna wanna router, and uh, slam it into the work piece. Then, basically, you're gonna wanna find someone else to manually use the arrow keys on the keyboard to guide the toolpaths of the machine. Then, basically, of course, you're gonna want to unload it from the machine, turn off the dremel, and use the burn the s**t! out of it technique.

Joe-

Today I made the first cut, and it didn't go as planned. The CAD was prefectly laid out and the toolpaths were all perfect, but it made a horrible high pitched noise. I tried adjusting the feed rate but it continued to make the sound.

I think its the bit that is the problem, or maybe the cut speed?
Here are the specifications:
End Mill-
-1/4" shank, 1/4" diameter, 4 flutes, carbide, TiN coating
- http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=322-6116&PMPXNO=7776347

CNC Router Setup-
-21,000 RPM, 60 IPM, 1/4" depth passes

I just read this on a website: "Do NOT use these types of bits:
Machining End Mills:Bits from sources like MSC or McMasters are intended to operate on machining mills like Bridgeports etc. They are typically designed to cut at around 2000 RPM, and will not hold up long at the speed of the CNC mill."


Just wondering what bit you used to cut your mdf parts, how many rpms is your router set to, and how many ipms you cut. Where do you buy your bits?

Is a Use-Enco bit inappropriate for cutting on a CNC?

Ideally, you should use bit's made for wood, not metal. However, metal cutting bits should still work. With a 4 flute bit at 60ipm, try about 10,000 rpm.

the bits from enco are not the best quality, I use CMT 2 flute up spiral.around 12,000 rpm.

also MDF will give you a high pitch noise due to its properties, and the sharper the bit the better it will work.

Joe

Joe-

I just ordered a CMT bit and hope things turn out better. Thanks for the advice

Spencer

Was it trying to plunge the bit?
The type of bit you describe is probably not one to use for a plunge cut. The upspiral wood bits will plunge cut.

Was it trying to plunge the bit?
The type of bit you describe is probably not one to use for a plunge cut. The upspiral wood bits will plunge cut.

Our bit is an upspiral bit.

yeah the bit is a centercutting upspiral bit, so it would have no problem plunging.

Joe-
Today was the second day of cutting and there were numerous improvements made from the first day of cutting. We made changes to the IPM and RPM of the router and we're able to make much cleaner, quicker, and quieter cuts.

Router Settings:
- 16,000 RPM
- 80+ IPM
- .18" passes

Bit Settings:
- Brand: Atrax (off of Use-Enco.com)
- 1/4" shank, 1/4" diameter, 3/4" cut depth, 2-3/4" total length
- Carbide, Titanium Nitrade Coating,
- 4 flute / centercutting / Upspiral

The high pitched sound that we had experienced the first day definitely decreased, most likely due to the shorter passes. But the shorter passes and increased IPM was an enormous improvements on the deeper passes. While it takes 3 passes now, going at 80+IPM slowest we have great improvements on speed.

One Problem: The bit is an upspiral bit, yet it fails to remove the mdf dust from the 1/4" width channel. The dust accumulates and causes the high pitched noise to increase. The dust collection has no effect on the dust so we were just going to use a small shop vac and do it between passes? Any suggestions?

I'm really excited for the CMT bit, I hope it increases the cut speeds. Is it a compression bit, it didn't say?

Joe-
Today was the second day of cutting and there were numerous improvements made from the first day of cutting. We made changes to the IPM and RPM of the router and we're able to make much cleaner, quicker, and quieter cuts.

Router Settings:
- 16,000 RPM
- 80+ IPM
- .18" passes

Bit Settings:
- Brand: Atrax (off of Use-Enco.com)
- 1/4" shank, 1/4" diameter, 3/4" cut depth, 2-3/4" total length
- Carbide, Titanium Nitrade Coating,
- 4 flute / centercutting / Upspiral

The high pitched sound that we had experienced the first day definitely decreased, most likely due to the shorter passes. But the shorter passes and increased IPM was an enormous improvements on the deeper passes. While it takes 3 passes now, going at 80+IPM slowest we have great improvements on speed.

One Problem: The bit is an upspiral bit, yet it fails to remove the mdf dust from the 1/4" width channel. The dust accumulates and causes the high pitched noise to increase. The dust collection has no effect on the dust so we were just going to use a small shop vac and do it between passes? Any suggestions?

I'm really excited for the CMT bit, I hope it increases the cut speeds. Is it a compression bit, it didn't say?

mine are 2 flute upspiral, and it still leaves material in the cuts, thats just the nature of the beast.

joe

Unless you blow compressed air into the cut, it's almost impossible to get the dust out when using small bits.

Ger is right and suggested aw hile back when I had similar issues to use 3/8" spirals instead of 1/4". I use 1/4" to save from tool changes like joe does but when I'm only cutting parts and not pocketing or drilling I will use a 3/8" solid carbide whiteside upspiral and it will do two things; eliminate that ear pinching sound you get and make all the dust it cuts airborne. Make sure you have good dust collection!

I have reading this thread for several days now. I just hope my boss dosen't find out how much time i spent on here! First of all, AWESOME job Joe and all the rest of you guys. I never thought there would be so much support is this kind of "hobby". I am thinking of building a Joe model myself (after the Christmas season) and I feel with the support found here i could do it! (no matter what my wife says)

As you can see this is my first post and I just wanted to say Hello to all and I look forward to future communication.

Thanks
David

Bama,
Are you in Elkmont Alabama? If so, that's just a few miles from me in Huntsville.
Dave

Bama,
Are you in Elkmont Alabama? If so, that's just a few miles from me in Huntsville.
Dave

Oh yeah!
I live in Elkmont. I work in Meridianville. So we are very close!
David

I used to live in Alabama...have to say didn't like the area I was in. Called West Blocton. It's right in between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa. It's near Greenpond, Somewhat near Bessemer also near Brent and Centreville.

Dougie,
I'm north of your old haunts by about 2.5+ hours driving. It's alot warmer down here then up in Pittsburgh, you got to admit that. :)

And thats a good thing? Humidity is horrible ;) Not to mention theres a little to much of the old ways around where I lived down there if you know what I mean.

Dougie, I'm just making lemonade from the lemons. When the humidity finally gets to my MDF router, I'll just make a new one. The next one will likely be the 4x4 from Joe. I'm tempted to build his 2006 but I'm too busy cutting stuff on my current machine to start a build.

Yeah I'm debating on waiting for a kit for his Hybrid or venturing off with my own design.

I liked that Dave...LMAO
Quote"I'm just making lemonade from the lemons"
I've felt your pain my brother!!..LOL

Cheers dewalt58

Yeah, DeWalt58 is from the Huntsville area too. We are a growing clan of CNC'rs up here in North Alabama.

Well you won't catch me back in Alabama...although be great to have some people around that are into this. I won't be staying in PA forever either though don't really like it here much.

Add me to use to live there, I lives in russellville, west of Hunstville

All these unfortunate souls :)

Pittsburgh's not bad.

I've just kinda got into CNC machinery myself w/ an auction i went to recently. i might potentially tear apart a machine i bought and attempt to build a router.

Where are you from in Pittsburgh Doug?

lmk,
Jesse

I live in North Side currently (hardly northside honestly more like north shore but by the mexican war streets you know that place?) Going to be moving in the next couple months probably.

4 hrs of machining time, done on the 4x4 slowed down to 60ipm so i did not have to babysit the machine, cutout for the Model 2006.

Joe

Joe was this all done with 1/4 bit or did you change bits for any of the smaller parts / details?

all done with a 1/4" 0 flute bit from Amana tools.

Joe

What a fantastic cost effective design, hat off to you joe. I have never worked with any sort of design software so im as green as i can get, i can build though.

I maybe be able to get access to a cnc router to cut joes 2006 out, i was wondering if there are files in a format that will work with a cnc program, say mach. I'm not sure if im being out of line by asking for such files but if i never ask i'll never know, i just dont think i could do it on my own. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Grant

The only reason i do not release the g-code i use is because g-code is more machine specific and I would not want to be blamed for any mishaps.

Joe

ok joe, no worries. What i have sort of figured out is that i need a program to make g-code. I have your r-1 stuff which i view through e-drawing, can i get g-code off that or do i need to use something like vcarve,( i think it is). I think i need to make some sort of cutting path, is that the g-code ?. Once again any help would be great. Thanks

To make a cut you need the following programs (others feel to correct me if anything I say is wrong).

CAD Software (Not always necessary as geometry can be drafted in CAM):
-You can use software like Solidworks or TurboCAD to draft the geometry of the part.

CAM Software:
-Using CAM software like VCarve or MasterCAM you lay the part out on the virtual stock, set the point of origin, generate your tool paths, and set tool parameters.
-The tool paths are then posted into an NC or other file format. This converts them to G-Code

CNC Controller Software:
-Using Controller Software such as Mach3, FlashCut, Etc. you open the G-Code File, Preprocess the file, adjust feed rates, and then start the cut.

That's at least how I do it at. I'm not sure if all the terminology is correct.
At school I use: MasterCAM (CAM Software) and Techno (Controller Interface Software)
At home I use: Rhinocerous (CAD Software), Mastercam X2 (CAM Software), and Mach3
I would recommend getting the Vectric Software as it is highly reviewed by all.

EDIT: To cut out parts for the Joe's CNC Machine do the following:
-Download correct file format for the CAM Software you are using (I use the .dwg format)
-Enter stock dimensions in CAM Software, display stock, set origin, import part CAD file (.dwg or other), position part on stock
-Use contour, pocket, drill, etc. toolpaths to cut out the part, after I select a toolpath my software lets me then enter the tool parameters.
-Verify your cut, post the NC file (A.K.A. Post the G-Code)
-Open NC file (G-Code) in Controller Software, Preprocess, Cut.

Note:
-I find it to be easier to use 2-Dimensional CAD file formats rather than 3-Dimensional.
- When posting tool paths you must have the correct post for the CNC Controller Software you are using. (Example: If I'm using MasterCAM software and I post my G-Code for my Techno Interface Controller, I most post it using the Techno format.)

A short answer to your question steptoey, if you don't want to read the detailed version above:

G-Code, from what I know, is almost always created using the CAM software. This is done after tool paths have been generated. G-Code can be manually written, but thats not very fun and its certainly not efficient with the software available these days.

A short answer to your question steptoey, if you don't want to read the detailed version above:

G-Code, from what I know, is almost always created using the CAM software. This is done after tool paths have been generated. G-Code can be manually written, but thats not very fun and its certainly not efficient with the software available these days.

Thanks thomas, i read the lot and it has cleared alot up for me, i now must go see what i can work out, all part of the learning curve.

Thanks Grant

P:S- Joe, how does one get an invite to your yahoo members page, cheers

...G-Code can be manually written, but thats not very fun and its certainly not efficient with the software available these days.

I really don't want to argue with you in Joes thread, but I must point out that that is not entirely true, it should be known that it also depends on the part and if it will be a high production part or a single part run. The guys I used to work with NEVER use cam software, they merely take the part print and start writing a program in notepad, the parts they are writing the programs for are also high production, so time is of the essence, not to mention, these guys have done this for years, so they know the machines they are writing the programs for and they can do it faster than most people could with cam software. Also when are you going to learn to alter your programs in process if you don't write your own from scratch.

I would have to say most people these days do not write g-code, sure they edit g-code for their specific needs and machine use . Its like in my field, sure it is faster to draw on a drafting board and get a set of plans out the door, But we do not do that anymore, In our Engineering office there are no drafting desks, they are the past, I only have on my desk a computer and dual monitors. Everything is done in Autocad Civil 3d.

The key words you used is "I use to work with guys that NEVER use cam programs" This is being phased out as programs take over the common tasks, and eliminate more human errors.

Joe

Thanks thomas, i read the lot and it has cleared alot up for me, i now must go see what i can work out, all part of the learning curve.

Thanks Grant

P:S- Joe, how does one get an invite to your yahoo members page, cheers

you do not need to be invited, you just join.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joescnc

Joe

I really don't want to argue with you in Joes thread, but I must point out that that is not entirely true, it should be known that it also depends on the part and if it will be a high production part or a single part run. The guys I used to work with NEVER use cam software, they merely take the part print and start writing a program in notepad, the parts they are writing the programs for are also high production, so time is of the essence, not to mention, these guys have done this for years, so they know the machines they are writing the programs for and they can do it faster than most people could with cam software. Also when are you going to learn to alter your programs in process if you don't write your own from scratch.

I was incorrect in saying writing G-Code isn't efficient, because for some applications I'm sure it is quite efficient. Personally for me, I would rather draft the part up in some CAM software and then generate tool paths. This allows me not only to have a CAD part on file in case I want to review it, or do what Joe does and make an awesome eDrawings file featuring the entire machine.

But I'm not criticizing manual writing of G-Code, and if thats how you do it...well I respect that, as I see it as a very tedious, but also very accurate way of handling it.

I would have to say most people these days do not write g-code, sure they edit g-code for their specific needs and machine use . Its like in my field, sure it is faster to draw on a drafting board and get a set of plans out the door, But we do not do that anymore, In our Engineering office there are no drafting desks, they are the past, I only have on my desk a computer and dual monitors. Everything is done in Autocad Civil 3d.

The key words you used is "I use to work with guys that NEVER use cam programs" This is being phased out as programs take over the common tasks, and eliminate more human errors.

Joe

I really want to get Autocad Civil 3d and learn how to use it. I was looking at engineering positions recently and I saw this as a prerequisite for some of the positions. This summer I plan to get an internship at an engineering firm, and it would definitely be cool to know what I'm talking about when the guys are talking about things. I will have to get my hands on a copy of that.

and Dual Monitors! I would kill for them. I upgraded my graphics card about a year ago and got one with dual DVI so I could get dual monitors. For a while I had my 19" widescreen and an old 17" CRT. But the CRT was hurting my eyes because of the resolution and brightness differences, and it ended up dieing on me anyway. So now I'm only using 1 monitor until I can afford to buy a 2nd, but CADing would be so much easier with duals.

A short answer to your question steptoey, if you don't want to read the detailed version above:

G-Code, from what I know, is almost always created using the CAM software. This is done after tool paths have been generated. G-Code can be manually written, but thats not very fun and its certainly not efficient with the software available these days.

I have written a bunch of gcode subroutines so that writing the gcode for a part becomes fairly easy. Below is the bulk of the code written to cut the X-axis Torsion box Rail Support (excluding my standard subroutines and the subroutine to cut the outside shape).


o610 sub (Drill Holes)
O300 CALL [1.125] [0.750] [0.250] ( Drill bottom left hole )
O300 CALL [3.500] [1.125] [0.250] ( Drill bottom centerleft hole )
O300 CALL [26.50] [1.125] [0.250] ( Drill bottom centerright hole )
O300 CALL [28.75] [0.750] [0.250] ( Drill bottom right hole )
O300 CALL [28.75] [5.750] [0.250] ( Drill top right hole )
O300 CALL [26.50] [5.250] [0.250] ( Drill top centerright hole )
O300 CALL [3.500] [5.250] [0.250] ( Drill top centerleft hole )
O300 CALL [1.125] [5.750] [0.250] ( Drill top left hole )
o610 endsub

( Main Code )
o140 CALL [4.0] [1.75] [5.0] [3.0] [1.0] [8.5] [3] ( Cut all Lightening Holes )
o160 CALL [2.00] [6.25] [4] [8.27] [3.0] ( Call subroutine to cut ribs )
o610 CALL ( Drill Holes )
o100 CALL [600] [0.50] [0.0-#<_toolrad>] ( Outside Outline )
It actually becomes fairly efficient, to code up a new part. And since the subroutines are already debugged, it is fairly safe code.

When I look at the code generated by something like V-Carve, I have little idea (initially) where to look for a problem. (Probably my drawing) I admit for somethings nothing beats CAM but I really like my short programs.

Alan

Alan,
Is a call a common part of all g-code, or does that only run on some controllers?
I have written many programs on computers, but my cursory look at g-code didn't make it look much like a programming language I am used to.
Is there a good source of this information on the net?

Thanks

Alan,
Is a call a common part of all g-code, or does that only run on some controllers?
I have written many programs on computers, but my cursory look at g-code didn't make it look much like a programming language I am used to.
Is there a good source of this information on the net?

Thanks

Bob,

I am running EMC2. http://www.linuxcnc.org (http://www.linuxcnc.org/)

Alan

your CNC is very good , i like made one CNC, ¿have you plans and schematics? send me please more information.

congratulations for your proyect.
Robert

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joescnc/

I have tried searching and I can't find it so do kill me. I am about to cut out my own Joes but there are some depths I am missing on parts. First is the lovejoy spider new replacement piece. I don't know how deep that is 1/2" or 3/4"?

Is there a dwg of the plastic hold down that is used with the clamp? I am talking about the round thing with the imbedded nut that you screw down to hold your work to the table?

Has anyone made a T-Slot table for joes yet? I know I can buy one but don't have the budget to buy one. I didn't know if mdf would be strong enough to make a T-slot table out of. I would only need 4 slots or 3. Could I use 1/2" or would I have to use 3/4" for the bed?

I think I have my T slot table built out on my web page. www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca.

Hey DistortedDesign,
I haven't made my own MDF T-slot for Joe's machine, but I did for my previous machine. I purchased a T-slot bit and just cut the slots into the MDF and it worked out very well.

If you do decide to you that route, in my opinion, cutting the slots width-wise (Y axis) seemed to be more flexible than going length-wise ( X axis). Flexible in the sense that your clamping options seem to be a bit better.

Good luck.

Joe

PhillyCyberJoe,

Can you publish infomation on what t-slot bit you used? I'm looking to go this route and have seen different size bits. Just wondering what size you used.

Thanks,
Flyon

I did this also a while back on a machine, used end mill 1st, then a keyhole bit.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=8232

Joe

Don't forget about the other stuff? I need the depth of the new lovejoy spider. The size of the screw down holder for the clamp?

Joe, what was that thing that you made to go on the end of the router? It was a round with 4 verticle pieces that goes under the dust collector to move the dust towards the vacuum hose. I need to get specifics so I can cut it out.

Correct me if I am wrong. I think you are refering to the mode I made for my router. Really it does not push the dust towards the dust collector it just stops the down draft from the router onto the work piece which pushes the dust away from the work area and my dust collect could not does job as well. You can see it on www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca under yetanotherdustcollector.

Correct me if I am wrong. I think you are refering to the mode I made for my router. Really it does not push the dust towards the dust collector it just stops the down draft from the router onto the work piece which pushes the dust away from the work area and my dust collect could not does job as well. You can see it on www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca under yetanotherdustcollector.


Yep that is it. Thanks!

Does it work well? Seems like it would take the exaust from the router and throw it out the side and spin it. That should work really well at getting the debre over to the vacuum.

I have the cad file but there are no dimentions for it. I don't know any of the side dimentions (depths) of the part. Looks like I need the overall depth and how thick the bottom is.

The file should be in DXF format which should contain all the elevations of the lines. If not let me know and I will review. Probably be best to review the pictures with the drawing.

Buzz,
I like the down draft shield. Great design. And I'm curious about the clear plastic shield. Do you find the suction to deflect the plastic inward?
Dave

The file should be in DXF format which should contain all the elevations of the lines. If not let me know and I will review. Probably be best to review the pictures with the drawing.

Nope I got it open in autocad 08 right now. No dims, no side view, or anything to indicate depth. Some thing else that looks a little strange on it. It has open lines. Hard to explain but at the end of the where the vertical teeth are it is open and there are rounded areas. I can fix everything and dimention it for you, I just need the depths. Im me with your email and I will send you the file when I am done. It should only take me a minute or two to do it.

The dxf is based on the machine tool paths not really a drawing. I check the DXF it does contain the depths (use list on the line you will get back the z value). Description of machineing. Large circle is your surface to create the thickness of the part at .31", then cut the second smallest center cirle to a depth of Z.165, then you cut out the center circle to a depth of Z0, then pocket out the four pockets at Z.09, cut the through bolt holes (2 of them - I just marked them then drilled them on the drill press) then go back and cut out the big circle to complete the task. The open lines are for geometry work.
NOTE: All is based on bottom is Z0

Need to check the mounting holes. In the cad file they are coming through the sidewall. Im me and I will send you the file and show you what I mean.

Some times it sucks in but that all depends on the length of the skirt. If the skirt is long enough to make a tight seal the legs will be pulled in, but if the legs are lofted over the surface as you work I find you still get vaccum and the legs stay straight as the vacuum pulls from underneather the skirt. Helps that I have the unit able to rise and lower as well with the quick removal of the skirt you can have multiple length skirts just put the one you want in place. Only problem really comes in to place when you are cutting deep passes like 3/4".

For example if I know I am cutting 1/2" deep I will try and have the cutter exposed below the skirt by say 3/8" this way when it is only tight on the last pass.... you could even leave 1/2 clearance underneath and it will still work.

Another way is to remove a few of the legs thus reducing the pressure on the legs and causing the wind to go through selective opensing.... suggest on the far side of the cutter so the direction of the wind cross the cutter then goes to the vacuum

Now this is all fine for wood dust the same principle does not work with stuff like plastic as the vacuum pressure has to be higher to counter the heavier flying objects.

Even if I do go through a skirt every 50 to 100 hours no problem.

Hope that helps.

The dxf is based on the machine tool paths not really a drawing. I check the DXF it does contain the depths (use list on the line you will get back the z value). Description of machineing. Large circle is your surface to create the thickness of the part at .31", then cut the second smallest center cirle to a depth of Z.165, then you cut out the center circle to a depth of Z0, then pocket out the four pockets at Z.09, cut the through bolt holes (2 of them - I just marked them then drilled them on the drill press) then go back and cut out the big circle to complete the task. The open lines are for geometry work.
NOTE: All is based on bottom is Z0

Ok, that makes some sense but the mounting holes are still off. They will poke through the side wall. I need to make just an autocad file of it so I can add it to my layout. The machine will change it into code for me.

Sorry that one is a little confusing... sorry no good in the dxf, those holes are only representative of where to center drill so I can drill on the press afterward (you are right if you cut them you would go through. Once I had the center mark I drilled a hole to match the bolts in the router (oh ya you have to replace them for ones that are a little longer).

To confirm I drilled the holes on the drill press... I did this becuase I did all my work with a 1/4" cutter which was to big to create the holes.

Buzz you have the files? the link did not work for me for some reason for your site "VacumeHead4.zip" or a link to your latest.

like to check it out.

Joe

Joe,

OK the problem... firefox and IE.... one allows relative paths and one requires direct paths to files. Going to fix that now... but
I think I need to fix this one to tell you a newer set of plans is out.... the plans you are looking at are for an older version of the dust collector. You need to go further down the main cncmachine page and select the "Yet Another Dust Collector". This one contains the more resent dust collector and deflector. I believe these are the ones you want. If not let me know.

does this look like yours? 1/2" thick, 0.35" step down, may work?

Edit replaced picture with updated.

That's it. Not sure if you did but I cut it down to the hieght of the main circle first @.31" (pocket the big circle). Then all you need is a new set of screws as the existing ones in the router are just a tad to short. You know my first versions were in MDF and they would work perfectly, you really don't need plastic.

That's it. Not sure if you did but I cut it down to the hieght of the main circle first @.31" (pocket the big circle). Then all you need is a new set of screws as the existing ones in the router are just a tad to short. You know my first versions were in MDF and they would work perfectly, you really don't need plastic.

I am making Joes vacuum and I got to looking and his vacuum assembly covers most of the router. I am not sure if I need to make one.

Joe, do you still get a lot of down draft on your vacuum assembly?


Also no one has still said anything about the wood holders that screw onto the c clamps for joes machine. I just need specs soon. I am cutting everyting out next weekend and I have to finish the layout so PLEASE can someone one give me specifics on it.

I do not have the 06 anymore, i sold it to move to designing the 4x4, the 06 cut the parts for the 1st two 4x4 i built.

But i am going to make the deflector for the new 4x4 anyway, it will not hurt for sure, I know guys on shopbot was compaining about that also and made it for the PC router.

Joe

Ok, for those who want a cad program and can not afford Acad, here is the new ProgeCad 2008 Smart. it is free for personal use, and acts just like acad. So it is a great alternative for people to measure and dimension the drawings files.

http://www.progecad.com/compra/index.asp?left=prodotti/eng_progecad2008smart&abspage=1&lang=eng

Joe

Awesome! My trial on Rhinoceros CAD (my personal favorite) just ran out, so I'm looking for some new programs. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks

Flyon,
I bought the T-Slot bit at MLCSWoodworking. Here is the link:
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_keyhl.html#T-slot_cutter_Anchor

I was able to do the entire slot in one pass.

The "other" Joe

Awesome! My trial on Rhinoceros CAD (my personal favorite) just ran out, so I'm looking for some new programs. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks

I just downloaded the ProgeCad and it's great. I also have Turbo Cad Classic. If you are looking for compatibility with ACAD, the I think you will like ProgeCad. It's better then TC for sure.

Neither of these programs are as good as Rhinoceros, that's what I'm told.

Changing the subject I am experiencing some racking the x axis of my machine .A reference was made to a cable system used in pocket doors some time ago .The system involves cables and pullies and was available at Lowes. I checked my local Lowes yesterday and they either don't have them or never had them .

So the question is does anyone recall the manufacturer ??? regards mike hide

>Has anyone made a T-Slot table for joes yet? I know I can buy one but don't have the budget to buy one. I didn't know if mdf would be strong enough to make a T-slot table out of. I would only need 4 slots or 3. Could I use 1/2" or would I have to use 3/4" for the bed?<

I built a "T-Slot" table top for my machine... using individual 5 inch wide strips of MDF, with a shallow rabbet cut into the bottom edges. I used T-Bolts from Woodcraft... No router bit or other fancy stuff was required. I just cut the rabbets with a dado blade on my table saw, although you could accomplish the same thing by turning the pieces up on edge, and cutting them with a standard blade. OR... you could just glue on some 1/8 or quarter inch masonite to the bottom of the MDF strips. Anything that provides a gap between the bottom of the MDF and the actual table top would work fine.....

I was WAY overthinking this... with aluminum extrusions, T-Slot router bits, etc. None of that stuff is necessary.... The secret is the T-Bolts that Woodcraft ( and probably other places sell....)

You can see photos of my setup in my "Joe's 2006 in Albuquerque" log... right here in this section of the CNC Zone.

-Taylor

I used the Cable "Moving Knot" system and got rid of my racking in about 45 minutes. Thanks for the pointers everyone.

I used the Cable "Moving Knot" system and got rid of my racking in about 45 minutes. Thanks for the pointers everyone.

Why do they refer to it as the "moving knot" system ?? mjh

I don't know about the moving knot system but I did install a Paralok fence system on a craftsman table saw awhile back and it works on the same principle. It worked flawlessly, but from what I understand Paralok is no longer in business.

Hello to Ultimate Machinist Community!
Now I say our community.

Best regards
Krsta Brcic

Hello to Ultimate Machinist Community!
Now I say our community.

Best regards
Krsta Brcic


I do not see anyway to initiate a new post on these forums, please show me the majic procedure .

I was thinking about a forth axis for my system ,the electronics is in place ,it just amouts to adding the hardware in the x axis.

My question concerns threading relatively large diameters.The outside diameter should pose no problems as I see it. The inside threads are another problem ,even if the spindle could some how be inserted in the inside diameter which in most cases is not feasable for several reasons not the least of which is physical bulk. So I was wondering if someone makes a right angle drive for a router or laminate trimmer ? I am not sure if a double bevel gear would would take the router speeds for any length of time.perhaps a small belt driven spindle might work .I just do not know of a manufacturer that does this kind of small scale work.....regards mike hide

Mike,
Are you meaning to start a new thread? If so you must be in the main thread section and you will see a new thread button in the upper left of the section you want to post.

Hi guys , just need to confirm !!! , on the gantry , the top torsion box has 1/4 inch skins and the bottom one has 1/4 inch skins too ????

Hi guys , just need to confirm !!! , on the gantry , the top torsion box has 1/4 inch skins and the bottom one has 1/4 inch skins too ????

Correct.

Thanks Joe

BTW anybody has use grey PCV instead of HDPE , would itt be good ??????

Bruno

we have someone right now building the 4x4 Hybrid using PVC instead of the HDPE and MDF (all 3/4" though) so i do not see why you can not. You actually use a fusing glue to weld the pieces together.

Joe

Joe , what spindle speed and what cutting speed (IPM) are you using when machining plastic ??? last time i tried i had a carbide 2 flute mill blowing up !!!! luckily nobody was close to the machine !!!!

another question , last night i cut the gantry sides in 3/4" mdf to prevent bending , do you think that the increase weight will affect the speed of travel ???

Joe , what spindle speed and what cutting speed (IPM) are you using when machining plastic ??? last time i tried i had a carbide 2 flute mill blowing up !!!! luckily nobody was close to the machine !!!!

another question , last night i cut the gantry sides in 3/4" mdf to prevent bending , do you think that the increase weight will affect the speed of travel ???

Please any reply ????

Very sorry i did not see this post,

on the bit I would use a 0 flute up spiral this is made for plastics and leaves a very nice cut. on speed i use 12,000 to 14,000 depending on the plastic, i have found with HDPE there are some variances in material makeup during the manufacturing proccess.

the gantry sides will be fine using 3/4" MDF, My very first original 2006 was all 3/4" mdf and i drive it with 200oz motors at 60ipm.

joe

Good job Joe. Very nice.

Hi Joe , i would like to know , what will i gain by replacing the rubber spider by hdpe ones in the motor coupling ????

Please any reply ????

Probably not but it should effect acceleration.....mjh

Hi Joe , i would like to know , what will i gain by replacing the rubber spider by hdpe ones in the motor coupling ????

I replied in your thread hope you get it.

Joe

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here, I am seriously considering building the Joe's CNC Model 2006 R2 router. My question is about how long does it take to cut all of the parts in MDF and HDPE to build this machine?

I am asking because I might want to ask someone in our local metal working society for time on their CNC router to cut the parts. Since none of the people with CNC routers live anywhere close to me I need to have a pretty good idea of the cutting time involved to make the decision on whether I will buy the kit or cut my own.

Thanks for all of the great informaiton posted here about the router.

Welcome, John. Are you going to finish those Flash docs first? ;) :stickpoke

Of couse I am, the reality is the router project will have to wait until we move to our retirement home because I don't have enough room in my 10x12 shop for it. It is a little crowded with three mills, two lathes, 4x6 band saw, tool grinder, arbor press, tapping machine and two rolling tool cabinets to add a rather large foot print router in there. Now I could put it in the living room next to the wife's quilting machine but I somehow don't think she would appreciate the dust and noise.

Hi Guenther,

At the risk of completely jinxing my build (a joe 4x4 hybrid cut down to 2x4), I live in Point of Rocks, which is about 30 minutes from you if the wind is blowing the right direction. My machine is still under construction (and by the way, I was thinking about building a Joe 2006 before Gordon turned me on to the 4x4) If I get this thing working anytime this decade, I could probably cut the parts for you. There's another thread that already has the parts nested on a 2x4 sheet!

Have you considered the hybrid design? It seems intimidating, but it strikes me as an extremely well thought out design. I have zero flight time on a Joe 2006, but I was quickly sold on the idea.

Cheers! Jim

Hi Jim,

Well, we won't jinx your build and thank you very much for the offer. Since I am in no rush whenever you get it done I would be glad to have you cut the parts for me. I have not looked closely at the 4x4, but I will. There is some one in the CAMS group that is working on a 4x4 turned into a 4x8.

I will look into the 4x4 and maybe I can come up some day and take a look at your machine.

John,
The 2006 is a great machine but if you have to defer your build you should look to a machine that will still have lots of builders active at that time to help you out. My suggestion would be to focus on the Hybrid and start buying 80/20, v bearings, etc as you can. Then when you move south you'll have everything ready to go. There are two very talented 4x4 builders in N. Alabama, not sure where you're retirement location is exactly. When do you plan on moving?

Jim's moving a lot quicker on his build than I am on mine but that's the beauty of the hybrid design, you can focus on collecting all the components and do a quick build or can buy things piece by piece and have the build stretch out.


Gordon

Gordon,

That is a good point, from what I have been able to see on the forums and the Yahoo group the 4x4 is a nice machine with a lot of possibilities for various sizes. I will make that decision after I purchase the plans or get a look at yours or Jim's. I am going to build something small for now, maybe the Rockcliff or JGRO or maybe I will through together a quick a dirty design to solve my current needs and get some experience with some of the build techniques. I may still have four 16mm THK linear rails in storage that would be suitable for a small machine, I will go look later today. Once I get caught up on everything else I can get serious about this project.

John

John,

If Jim, Gordon or you want to meet in Centreville, I've got my Joe's 4x4, well really a 3x4 running now. Just let me know. The 4x4 is really a bolt together project once you get the MDF/HDPE parts.

Tony

Tony,
You know I'm up for it, I'd love to see your machine running. do you still have that extra piece of Z screw? I can buy that from you at the same time.

Let's hear from Jim and John. For you, what day/time is best in general?

Gordon, Jim, Tony;

I am up for it any time this weekend or Thursday or Friday evenings. Just let me know when and where by pm.

Its great to be able to go see someone machine that is built and see it run in person. You have to love the DIY world.

Joe

Just thought I'd throw this out there and see if there are any CNC'ers near Portland, OR who could cut out the MDF for my Joe's 2006?

Joe is still cutting kits for the 06 in addition to the 4x4, just email him.

Excellent, I thought he wasn't doing the 2006 anymore.

Sure is, I believe he still cuts a few kits a month for the 06, they are still popular.

Gordon, John & Jim

Drop me a note at Tonybert@cox.net with contact information. The weekend will be better then the a week day evening. I'm just south of 66 near New Bradick and 28 in Centrevill

Yep, I still have the half of the 1/2 x 8 TPI x 2 start (18" or so) plus other odd ball left overs, over purchases - 10 or 15 1/2" spring nuts and some 1/2 bolts ( 1 or 1 1/2" IIRC).

Tony