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I checked the feedback on Ebay for the person selling the CNC table your looking to bid on.

The seller has 72 positive feedbacks, the problem I see is every single feedback is from something that "tigercnc" has purchased from other sellers on Ebay.

Another thing is this seller only purchased very low dollar items example: $0.99 -$20.00

Now all of a sudden the are selling something for $10,000.00

All I'm saying is be very careful !

If it was me I would have to see it in person first (before parting with 10 grand)





Also are you willing to pay an additional $2,000.00 for shipping? And they are built to order!

The guy might be legit, you never know. He does offer to allow you to see a machine in action at his place. For that much money I would take him up on that offer (If you are serious about buying) Visit first and then buy, he is building to order anyway.



Good Luck...



Update:

I checked his other listing it says he is shipping from "Los Angeles"!

So he is building the machine to order,(In Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin) And Shipping the machine from LA?

Sounds very Odd to me!


.

Something doesn't read right here. One piece, cast iron bed on a 4'X8' machine but the machine weighs less than a standard Bridgeport.....something is odd.

Not to mention the stats on the machine sound like something you would find on a much more expensive machine - I will be willing to bet the water cooled spindle (if from a reputable manufacturer) costs nearly $10K.

If this machine is for real, I want one. I doubt this is anything more than the same scam Daves-not-here discovered last month.

Be careful!

Scott

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You are a sales guy, aren't you?

OK. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt - he's new, trying to get started in a business.

Why don't you pony up $12K, buy this machine and then write a comprehesive review of the legitamacy of the machine and the support - for the benefit of the new business owner as well as the thousands of folks on this board.

Scott

A business should be run as a business, especially when this kind of money is involved.

Money Order or Cashiers Check?
Never, ever pay someone you do not know that kind of money this way, there is not the protection that credit cards offer. A real vendor who handles this kind of money can and will afford the merchant fees that credit cards charge. A merchant PayPal account is not hard to set up either.
No shipping insurance offered? So who pays when it "falls off the truck"
Even if this is completely legit it is set up to be indistinguishable from fraud.
A responsible business person recognizes the doubts of his potential clients and addresses them so that even the most paranoid buyer's fears are allayed.

China, Japan, Germany, and Taiwan all in one machine??? OPINIONS PLEASE !!!

Everything I said, is my OPINION, Isn't that why you started this post? (For others opinions)

Question: Do you work for this company?



.

If the company is legit, then no defense is required.

Sol said it best - "Even if this is completely legit it is set up to be indistinguishable from fraud."

Scott

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Sorry to get you all worked up.

Relax. There is no need to yell.

Most folks on this board have designed, built and been surrounded by machines their entire life and know what's involved to make such equipment. You came asking for opinions. I gave mine and I will stand by it.

Go to this guy's shop and give the machine a spin and get more details. If this is legit, it really is an awesome deal and I am sure he will be met with a great deal of future business.

Scott

FYI... Note how they fudged the picture to cover up something to the left of the '1325'.

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By all means, keep us informed.

Thanks!

Scott

I'm preparing to buy my first (small) CNC engraver so I became a very active...reader here. Far from me to think about that kind of "monster" you are talking about, but since this discution turned so hot I thought its interesting to find what is behind these chinese mixtures. I'm a novice in CNC so I cant advice anyone what to buy or not, but what I cant understand here is not CNC related but just a common sense matter: these "things" have NO names (nothing to cover in a picture). The parts are also "made in", no brand, no information. If the bearings or ballscrews are made...lets say by INA, why is so hard to mention that; hard to believe that each unit comes with parts from a different manufacturer. The inverter is "taiwan" (a well known company :o) ) and the spindle comes from "worldwidemotors inc."
Sorry if you already know this link: http://www.petitt57.com/page20.html
....but if not, maybe its the time to take a look.
Good luck!

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Hi bfreesebfreese,
I am sorry if my doubts offended you, I probably am too quick to judge :o

I have emailed tigercnc through Ebay and have not received any info yet; a Google search finds nothing pertinent for Tiger CNC or Tiger Tec and Tigercnc.com is a little outfit here in NC, not Wisconsin.
You have been able to get through to David of Tigercnc, would you please share his email address and point us to the websites that give any info about his company?

Off topic. . .Are you the bonsai plant guy? We used to play around with that a bit, handsome stuff!

Thanks! :cheers:

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Thanks!
Is this the same David Slowinski that does all the work in Chippewa Falls with Cray Computer, the Prime Number Guru?!
Well CNC does attract math nerds. . . :D

Thanks for the info!

Well the guy is slow to answer email but a call did verify that it is the math guy. How ‘bout that?

I told him about this thread and asked about credit cards, escrow etc. He said he would post here to clear things up. He is still new to this import-export stuff and trying to get things straight.
Reminds me of the expression "Never attribute to malice that which can be can be explained by naivete." Kind of wonder if he may have bit off more than he might want to chew though.
Anyway, we shall see, eh?

Okay, I know this is getting stale, but I'll pass this on.
Mr. Slowinski sent an email that rehashed the above post, he acknowledged that he "had some homework to do" and was setting up systems for Paypal and credit cards as well as getting insurance straightened out.

So my baloney detector has dropped from pegging the red end to settling in the caution zone; it isn't that I do not trust his sincerity, but because he does indeed have some homework to do.
For what it is worth, here is an Interesting link about some of what he has done with Cray. http://www.isthe.com/chongo/tech/math/prime/prime_press.html

Wow! A thread about me! Where do I start?

Yes, I am David Slowinski the prime number guy in Chippewa Falls and worked for Cray Research, the now defunct supercomputer company, for 22 years.

Yes, I buy inexpensive router bits and other treasures on ebay. If you look back further you would see that I have also bought nearly 100 tons of used CNC equipment on ebay over the past 7 years without a single negative feedback.

So what is the story?

I always enjoyed big computers and machines that work for people. I had a blast working with big computers at Cray Research. Cray lost its way. I had a machine shop, Bigmill Metalworking, for 5 years. I found that I was having more fun cutting wood, so I sold my building and moved my smallest (13,000 pound) machine that I had converted to cutting wood to a friend's, also named Dave, woodworking shop. I wanted to cut beautiful wood signs, but my old controller would not allow it. I looked for a new CNC router, found nice expensive and junk cheap machines and started to build my own machine. I found a Chinese machine that seemed to good to be true,
took Dave to China to vist the factory, got too excited, and ordered a boat load of CNC routers to sell. So now what do I do?

I started a web site, tigertec.us, that is not ready yet. I have two systems that will be delivered to our shop in Chippewa Falls early next week and a boatload more machines on order. I put a listing on ebay. My email inbox lit up and I talked on the phone until I literally lost my voice. I don't think I have neglected to reply any emails, but if I have please let me know.

I looked at the fees for accepting credit cards through a merchant account or Paypal and said "that's not worth it": clearly a mistake that I will fix soon.

I have a notebook full of notes that I took during our trip to China. I wrote down the information on every component nameplate that I could find. I asked 1,000 questions and took a camera full of digital photos. Was it enough information to answer every question? Clearly not. Were we impressed with what we saw? Indeed we were.

So, someone watching this thread must be within reasonable driving distance of Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Please come visit us. We don't have a beautiful building, but we are having fun. Bring a camera and take lots of photos. Bring your test equipment and tell us about the limitations of our machines. Bring some interesting test cases to run. We'll take you to lunch. Please write a trip report for this thread.

I have ordered a new high resolution digital camera. If you have requests for photos of components, assemblies, name plates or whatever please let me know and I will post them on our website. Please tell me about the design flaws. The factory has emphasized that they are open to design changes and requests for new models. Let me put them to the test.

I will am happy to beat the price of the fast talking other dealers. I didn't make any money on the ebay sale that closed yesterday. Please don't beat me up too bad on price or I will have to cut my loses and just make wood signs and cribbage boards, desk accessories, and turkey calls. I believe there is opportunity here to sell a quality product, offer good service, and have fun.

If you have questions, please ask. I will do my best to answer.

Sincerely,

David Slowinski
TigerTec LLC
4 Pond Street
Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin 54720
715-723-7647 office
715-720-1400 shop
tigertec at charter.net (please do not put us on the spam lists)
www.tigertec.us

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I am impressed!

Way to pony up, Dave.

Scott

Visit our Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin workshop/showroom

to see these systems in action

Did any one read that on his site?

The guy is offering inspections.

If I was to buy the machine I would thourougly inspect the machine and pay the guy once you saw it loaded on your truck.

If it was me I would have to see it in person first (before parting with 10 grand)





Also are you willing to pay an additional $2,000.00 for shipping? And they are built to order!

The guy might be legit, you never know. He does offer to allow you to see a machine in action at his place. For that much money I would take him up on that offer (If you are serious about buying) Visit first and then buy, he is building to order anyway.



ynneb,

Same Here!


.

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.


You keep going on about how amazing this cnc is, that is posted on ebay. Why havn't you bid on it yet?

What would keep me from ever bidding is the fact (yes this one is a fact) that he doesn't have the machine in his possession.

The thing isn't even in this country.

I'm sure the guy selling this cnc, is a great guy (we all are) :)






.

>What would keep me from ever bidding is the fact (yes this one is a fact) that he >doesn't have the machine in his possession.

>The thing isn't even in this country.

It is good business sense to be sceptacle of any claims regardless of the source.

I believe that there is a market for these quality systems along with quality
support and training. I may be wrong. But I have wagered that I am right.
Currently I have a total of eleven systems on order. That is eleven systems
paid for in full and currently being built by the factory or being shipped. I
believe that this is currently more than all the other US dealers combined.
Of these eleven systems, two are scheduled to be delivered to me in Chippewa
Falls next week. All of the systems I have offered on ebay are in final
assembly and quality assurance testing at the factory and are scheduled
to ship on 11/18. My systems on order include nearly all the models
offered by the factory.

The gentleman who bought my system this week on ebay has a feedback rating of over 15,000. His ebay id is public record. It is unlikely that he is a stooge for me or anyone else. If there is a problem with the order or the machine I am sure you will know about it quickly.

Today I have no systems or satisfied customers. This is true. Stay tuned.

I am staying tuned......for sure.

It's absolutley amazing how getting info from the horses mouth can change your perspective - instantly.

If not for your posts, I (like many) would still be a doubting Thomas - now I am anxious to hear and see the outcome, which went from being unlikely to apparently inevitable. Thanks for clearing things up, Dave.

Please post when your equipment arrives. I, for one, may make the journey to see the equipment first hand. If everything is as stated, you have a bright future.

Scott

1

.

Not to be rude but are you able to read?

Yes, I can read (At least my school teachers always said I could) :rolleyes:




There is a difference in stating opinions that are factual and ones based one hearsay.

What is a factual opinion?




Anywho, my opinions are just that (My opinions)

I'm looking at this product as objectively as possible. I don't think this thread would have ever taken the route, that it did, If the seller had the table in his possession, at the time of his Ebay listing.

What happens If he never gets the table from China (Are you insured?) Is David insured (For his protection?)

If he keeps the tables in stock (In his possession) before ever listing, on Ebay, he will create a business that even I Would consider buying from. (If the table has enough quality to justify spending 12 grand)

You asked for our opinions, so here they are.


.

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slightly ot, but directed to tigertec

can the spindle be purchased separately? at what cost?

Spindle: 3 hp variable frequency drive 6000-24000 rpm
Water cooled, Remarkably quiet
ER-20 collets. ½ inch and ¼ inch included with system

1

I tried to be nice, with my last post!

It's obvious, that you should learn to keep your money in your pocket! Sounds like you part with money to easy!

You should look into getting a credit card, that provides fraud protection!

He never said the machine was shipping from China, in his Ebay listing (Fact)! Look at the date that I wrote that.

Your so stuck on buying one of the machines! So by the thing! You can put it in your shop with all the other stuff that you said you bought, but never got from other sellers.

Why are you asking others for info on this machine, when the first one hasn't even ported in LA! <-------Hows that for Odd?


David is the only one with any answers! Its his business to provide all the answers to your questions! He is the only one that has been to China to see the machine.

You can go on & on, I really could care less.

I'm done.

I would like to apologize to "CNCadmin" for wasting space on his server, for all this nonsense. I really enjoy this site, and hate to see threads that go nowhere.





.

Ask for info on sales to other people, call them and ask their experiences with the machine and dealing with the builder. Or Contact ebay, or other buyers from ebay directly, and ask for their experiences with the company.
Tell him staright up you are intrested.... by reserved about the no-name brand and distance he is from you. ask for people he has sold to in the states, ask him to contact them and ask if it is ok for you to call them. If he is 100% behind his product he will gladly do this for you as he has nothing to hide, Could save you a wasted trip to china.
just my 2 cents.

Otherwise the machine looks like a solid steel tube construction, would probably handle heavy loads no problem.

good luck with your decision

Well the Petite57 web site shows some pretty impresive machines for the money. Even if this was only the basis for upgrade to servos here, it still is a bargain. Even if you had to replace the linear guides after a year or 2 it is a bargain. The power panel looks a bit suspect with no big caps and what appears to be wiring direct from the transformers to the motor drives.

I note the they have a paypal link for payment, might want to check with customer service there to see if a track record can be established, talk to your bank about buyer protection and pay with a credit card that offers such protection.

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OK. I deleted most of the useless posts here. I don't want to have to delete any more. Now somebody go buy one of these things and let us know how good it is. ;)

I just got back from Chippewa Falls. This guy has a woodworking business with more antique (pronounced "old, worn out") machinery than I have ever seen in one place. There are several models of each type of machine in his shop. It seems that when one wears out, he just moves in another one and lets the first one sit and collect dust and debris.
Now....about the Chinese CNC machines. They were in the back of his shop stuffed in a corner. His shop sits behind his house and is in terrible disarray. I made arrangements to meet with him two weeks in advance and then I flew from Phoenix, Arizona to Minneapolis/St. Paul to get there. Then I had to rent a car and drive the last 100 miles to Chippewa Falls. When I got there (right on time) he was a "no-show"!! I WAS able to see the machines since he left his shop unlocked. I was NOT snooping, I was looking for him. No one was there. The machine seem robust enough, but the electronics were not enclosed and looked a bit light weight. The spindle worried me because a Colombo equivalent would add about $4,000.00 to the price of anyone else's machine and the rack and pinion setup just didn't look very strong either.
I was prepared to purchase his machine, but after being ignored, I decided to buy a Shop Sabre. It will cost me about an additional $6,000.00, but at least I'll be dealing with a professional organization. Luckily for me, they are located in Lakeville, MN just south of where I was staying in Minneapolis.

My gosh! How could this happen?

We were looking forward to meeting Svelte. My partner, also named Dave, opened the shop as normal at 8:00 and was working in his office on the second floor of the shop with a good view of the driveway to watch for our visitor's arrival. Dave's wife saw our visitor arrive and enter the shop and assumed that he was talking with Dave. I was working at home a few minutes away anticipating a call from Dave saying that our visitor had arrived.

Yes, our shop is a working woodshop. Yes, much of the woodworking equipment is used. Yes, Dave is remodeling his house and installing a new heating system in the shop. Yes, his office is upstairs away from the machines. Yes, we run a prototype of my controller interface design and there are some loose wires. Of course there is no excuse for a business to not greet a visiting customer.

This should not have been so terrible. Dave was indeed in the shop watching for Svelte's arrival. Svelte did have phone numbers for my home office, the shop phone, my cell phone, and my partner's cell phone - any one of which would likely have been answered by the second ring at the time Svelte came to visit. There is a telephone and telephone directory in the shop's reception room. Dave's gentle wife, Kathy, was in the house next to the shop and would have certainly found Dave if given any hint that someone was looking for him.

Many visitors have found their way to our shop and we hope many more will come. Soon a monitor will signal when a car enters. Kathy will be working regularly in the shop's reception room. I will strive to reconfirm appointments to let us better anticipate a visitor's arrival time. And there will be a door bell activated industrial horn to call us from the corners of the workshop.

I doubt that our shop will soon be as impressive as Shop Sabre's showroom. But we do work hard to care for our customers and we are proud of the CNC routers we offer.

Our offer our sincere appologies to Svelte for his unfortunate experience.

Sincerely,

David Slowinski
TigerTec LLC

www.tigertec.us
715-723-7647

is there a reasone this post is up with all of bfreesebfeese's posts removed??

did he do something bad?

OK. I deleted most of the useless posts here. I don't want to have to delete any more. ;)


Many of his posts were a bit aggressive, and direct and lacked anything productive.

So - nobody has seen said machine yet? If Tiger is confident in his equipment, then how about a post about the intimate details of the equipment? How about a few pictures?

I had forgotten about these machines...

Scott

I gave a description of the machines that I saw in my recent post. They look just like the pictures on eBay. I did not take any pictures because he was not there to give me permission and I won't take pictures of someone else's place without permission. I WILL say, however, that the pictures that he posts on eBay are NOT taken in his shop. They must be taken in the production facilities overseas.

I am NOT slamming this guy's equipment. I just did not appreciate spending over $700.00 to travel half way across the U.S. to meet with him and then have him NOT show up as planned. We agreed that I would get there between 08:00 AM and 09:00 AM. I arrived at 08:25 AM and left at 09:20 AM when I could not find anyone there. The place was deserted.

Like I said in my previous post....The equipment appeared solid. It used rack and pinion drives and had exposed electronics as if they were added stateside. The water-cooled high-frequency spindle included in his price is fantastic if it holds up. I can't seem to find anyone who owns one of these either. I could save about $6,000.00 if I bought this instead of the Shop Sabre, but I am afraid that I wouldn't be able to get parts if I needed them. I actually had the cash in my pocket to close the deal, but no one was home.

The interesting part is that he says he can arrange pickup in Los Angeles or Chippewa Falls. I am wondering how the drive package gets installed in L.A. He never made that clear. I was interested in the L.A. pickup option because I live in Phoenix, AZ.

I am ordering the Shop Sabre early next week unless someone can give me a better option. This will be my first CNC router. We have some ideas, but are not ready for production yet. We just want to get a good machine and learn how to use it BEFORE we take on any work.

To answer your question Miljnor

This thread got very long. Per usual some people came ripping with no first hand information what so ever. Go look at other machines on this sight and many do the same thing. They judge before they see or even contact a manufacturer. To see what I am talking about look up Shop Sabre for one example. Many have even questioned their existence. Luckily some (few) have offered real life experiences to counter act the many negative opinions based on?????????? (see for yourself)

Now to get back on topic of the Chinese imports!

I followed up and even offered first hand experiences with the many companies I contacted about these Chinese machines. One of which has several names, no real location that can be found and offers the machines from $9000 to $22,000. They also have presented fake magazine and technical awards. This was information that could have helped many but the moderators felt that that posting and the others should be deleted as I guess they figured the postings were going on too far and long for them. So they deleted many of the posts. Including a few posts were I shared links and verifiable information to possible fraud that may lead others into loosing big dollars. After the posts were deleted I simply erased all my other posts. None of my posts contained anything profane nor was I ever making fun of a person. I simply was trying to get people to see what small businesses go through and trying to uncover real helpful information.

Sorry, this is another unproductive, long direct posting.

>>>>Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other manipulations. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.<<<<

Here moderators are allowed to erase anything they wish. Even if it is not obcene nor attacking another individual. As you can see the moderator here easily directly implies my positions as "a bit aggressive, and direct and lacked anything productive." So he can post whatever he wants about me, but I can't speak my mind trying to figure these Chinese machines out.

Please note this posting has nothing to do with Svelte's or Tiger Tec's recent posts. I wish we had more first hand experiances of machines and resellers.

>but I am afraid that I wouldn't be able to get parts if I needed them.

I carry spares for all electronic components for the 6090, 1224-2, and 1325
as well as most parts for the 1224-1. Parts that I may not have are usually
available in 4-5 days by DHL from China. If there may be a delay I will borrow
parts from my machines to get my customers up and running.

>The interesting part is that he says he can arrange pickup in Los Angeles or >Chippewa Falls. I am wondering how the drive package gets installed in L.A.

The machines are fully assembled and tested at the factory.
I send the interface to Mach3 with cables separately.
This simply plugs into the router control box.
There are no loose wires or modifications to the router.

>..how about a post about the intimate details of the equipment? How about a few pictures?

Sure! What would like to see?


David Slowinski
TigerTec LLC

Many things have changed at TigerTec in the past year:

We have added new models with improved features and performance including a tool changer machine driven by Yaskawa servo motors.

We have made many design changes to improve quality, reliability, and performance. All our machines are built to our specifications and I personally test every machine before it leaves the factory.

We have added dealers who can demonstrate our routers and provide local support to their customers.

We have contracts for shipping, warehousing, and freight that allow us to efficiently import and distribute our routers.

We have started to do trade shows. We had a great response at the IWF exhibition in Atlanta and will be at the Carolinas Industrial Woodworking Expo Feb 15-16 in Greensboro, NC. We have started to advertise.

We became dealers for our favorite router bits, Onsrud.

We became dealers for our favorite Chinese water-cooled spindles. Yes, we can supply a reliable, quiet, high frequency spindle for your home-built machine.

We have more help in the office and more phone lines and internet bandwidth to support them.

We have added Fortune 500 customers. We have attracted volume customers who offer value added products and services to our routers.

We have remodeled the second floor of our workshop/showroom to make it brighter and more spacious. And yes, we have added signs to make it easier for visitors to find the upstairs office for the rare times when no one is working in the downstairs office or workshop.

Some things have not changed:

We still give first priority to quality, reliability, and customer support.

Our web site, www.tigertec.us, is still missing important photos and information.

We still share an old building with a custom woodworking shop that runs mostly older machinery. The house between the shop and the street is still being renovated. Our low overhead allows us to offer quality machines for a reasonable price.

We still have more fun working on technical challenges than on slick marketing campaigns.

My interface box still allows Mach3 to drive the machines although the handmade circuit board has been replaced by a commercially made printed circuit board.

Although we continue to make mistakes, we have been fortunate to avoid many of the problems that can cripple young growing companies.

The past year has been an exciting wild ride. With your continued support the coming year promises to be even more exciting.

Best regards,

David Slowinski
TigerTec LLC

www.TigerTec.us

TigerTec@charter.net

715-723-7647 office 8 am - 8 pm central time