Low cost laser Engraver [Archive] - Page 2 - CNCzone.com-The Ultimate Machinist Community

Flake

08-22-2006, 04:00 PM

Hello all, I have some experience with Chinese lasers...

Our company bought an IE1200 in March, at the time there was very little on the Internet about them or redsail (or anyone else in China) but when we considered the price we decided to just risk it and go for it. We wanted a laser to do some engraving but mostly for cutting acrylic.

After months of figuring out various things during the odd hour we could spare (we are that busy) we've got it going right. It cuts ok but doesn't seem to raster engrave too well however we haven't really engraved very much. I was suprised they would send the machine out so badly 'optimised'. The table was nowhere near flat so we made a new one, the x-rail was 4mm out of square, the manual is very vague about most things, the software is very poor and crashes frequently, the method of mounting the laser seems poor, adjusting the ray path takes forever.. BUT.. it works.

I should mention that everything plugged in and worked straight away including the computer software but its all the adjusting and re-engineering that you must do afterward that is the problem.

The other problem with Ink Express is the support, it seems there is just one person to answer everyone, and with the state their machines are going out he must be inundated with mail from people asking for support. If you buy from these guys be prepared to spend a lot of time and effort getting the machine running correctly.

miljnor

08-22-2006, 05:38 PM

Thanks for the information man. I think with all this bad press for the chineese I will end up just buying the parts and making the rest myself.

I don't mind engineering my own stuff it just takes time but If I have to spend time RE-engineering to make it work the way I want I might as well spend the time to do it my way!

I will follow pauls example and make it myself after I get the tube and power supply in.

diarmaid

08-22-2006, 05:50 PM

miljnor, please post a thread of your build for us to follow. :)

hkxy

08-22-2006, 08:29 PM

Flake :
I have the extremely good laser cutting machine,You need to understand China.
Specially China's laser.
Yes,Very many people sell this machine,Specially 1200,Because I make him,But regretted,I thought you need more services.

miljnor

08-22-2006, 09:54 PM

I will definitely but first stage is the gathering! and that isn't really a picture deal.

KTP

08-23-2006, 01:05 AM

I am also in the gathering stage and am just about ready to get in the construction part. I somewhat overgathered and am having a bit of a hard time narrowing down which parts to actually use. If I took a picture of all the parts I have gathered it would either make you jealous or feel pity for me. :violin:

Aksess

08-29-2006, 04:41 PM

Another update on my hflaser 3040a I had to set up a web cam in my shop so tech support could see the laser tube was bad. This was Saturday night Sunday morning in China. I expected them to ship a replacment part right away, But I guess I expected to much. I still have a broke laser for the time being. Another week and still no laser. :violin:

txcowdog

08-29-2006, 11:11 PM

Initially it looked like you were going to get pretty quick service, but, now that seems to have fallen apart. I wonder if we can trust any of the comapnies in China selling lasers.

Leo_RedSail

08-30-2006, 12:35 AM

to txcowdog,
Our president needs one day to call our distributors in USA, Canada, England ...... to get their suggestion on this case after inspection in the machine and getting some hints about the accident. Our company wants to follow the business rule here. I have explained to Mr. Dwight in the moring and have provided him a better solustion than the suggestion from those distributors just now.

Aksess

08-30-2006, 05:06 AM

I will be posting this piece of junk for sale in the classifieds in a few days, Prob around $1800. The company wants me to pay for a new laser tube. Which I can not afford at this time. They claim I hooked something up wrong. They claim the power supply was fried by an incorrect connection. No way I had it hooked up wrong, Duh 110 plug in. They claim misuse by me. The only thing I did was plug in machine and turn it on then pressed the test button to test the alignment of the laser beam, as the instructions suggest. That is when the power supply fried. Yes I admit they were good to send a new power supply but they are trying to say it was something I did that burnet it up, and messed the tube up. In all honesty I would not recommend this company at all. I wish I had took my chances and ordered from inkexpress. Maby I would have a working laser now.

zoltan

08-30-2006, 05:53 AM

Wow...I just decided to buy one 3040A from them. Monday I sent the money to them by bank transfer. I just convinced a friend to lend money to me for one year in order to buy it. Please, keep the fingers crossed for me. Still, I just borrow money and spend them on parts/software/tools and making no money from CNC but still hope to enter in CNC business - signmaking and engraving. At least learned and did a lot of CNC experiments. I must be crazy....

Zoltan

Aksess

08-30-2006, 05:15 PM

I have listed the machine in the classifieds if anyone is interested. I can not afford any more money for a new tube so I got to sell it. I didn't want to but a non working machine is doing me no good. I feel like I just wasted my money. So hopefully someone here can afford to buy it and a new tube. You can not fight big buisness all they care about is themselvs and a fish on the line. :tired:

txcowdog

08-30-2006, 11:23 PM

Zoltan

Please keep us posted with your progress. It is important for all of us to get as much first hand knowledge so we can all make an informed buying decision.

Aksess
It looks like Inkexpress is the route to take for lasers. They ignore you after the sale but there is a better chance to get a working machine when it arrives. It is too bad about Redsail having such poor support. I guess I will take my chances with Inkexpress. Thanks for sharing your experience. It helps us all by knowing who we are dealing with.

miljnor

08-31-2006, 12:11 AM

if you don't want to build something then the other one that no one has tried is Hkxy, although tought to understand he has been trying to get our business for a long time. hard to believe He would shoot himself in the foot by giving someone on this sight a bad deal.

Made_in_China

09-02-2006, 01:29 AM

How to select the China Low cost Laser Engraver

You can find many laser engraver suppliers in the Internet, you don't know how to find a good supplier, maybe you only know the China laser engraver is low cost.

I'm a China laser engraver designer, i can tell you the truth, sorry for my poor English, i only expect i can help you to make a better decision.

You must know some knowledge:

1) The China laser engraver use the Glass Co2 Laser tube instead of the RF Co2 laser tube;
2) The Glass laser tube is very very low cost, the life time is almost 3000-5000 hours; the RF laser tube is very expensive, the true life time is almost 20000 hours.
3) The Glass laser tube must be drived by the high volt power supply; the RF laser tube only drived by the 48V DC supply, so it is reliable than Glass tube.
4) The Glass laser tube is cooled by the circle water; the RF laser tube is cooled by the air.
5) The Maintenance expense of the Glass tube is very low, if the Glass laser tube is broken, you can replace a new one; but the RF laser tube is very expensive, if it is broken, it can be recharged the Co2 Gas, but the cost of recharge is expensive too.

So if you have DIY ability and you want to reduce the cost of your business,you can select the China laser engraver to start your business!!!

There are some rules, you can select the suitable machine for your need.

1) How much laser power i need
You can find the supplier say his laser engraver use 40W laser tube, or 60W laser tube, or 80W laser tube, it is only China standard, it isn't same as RF laser tube.
But you can find the true watt by the length of the laser tube:
Length Peak watt Average watt purpose
70cm <=40W 35W Rubber stamp, wooden gift
100cm <=50W 40W General use,cutting 8mm acrylic board
125cm <=70W 60W General use,cutting 10mm acrylic board
160cm <=85W 80W Cutting 15mm acrylic board

Note:
a) The laser power is bigger, the laser dot is bigger, the cost is more expensive.
b) The 80W laser tube is only used for cutting, the engraving effect isn't good. i find somebody want to upgrade his Mini laser engraver to 80W laser tube, it is naive:)
c) The laser tube is diffrent, the laser tube power supply(driver) is diffrent.

2) Up and down work plate
It is very important, if the engraver hasn't this fuction, it is difficult to engrave the thickness materials.

3) Software compatible
This point is very important too, mostly China low cost engraver use the Newdragon or Moshidraw software, this two software are designed for making CHINESE rubber stamp. it isn't compatible with Coreldraw or photoshop.
So it is difficult for you to use your old design, only the Redsail Easycut 2.0 software is compatible with coreldraw and photoshop.

4) Firmware function
a) Control panel:
Some low cost engraver hasn't the control panel, so the function
is a little. i think the Direction Button is necessary function.
b) Work mode:
Some engraver has one work mode: raster mode(scan line by line)
I think the laser engraver must has two work mode: engraving and cutting.
Because the laser power limitation, the 70CM laser tube only can
cut 1-3mm acrylic in one pass, the cutting function is equate to
"draw" function. the "draw" function is helpful in vector graph.
c) Engraving speed
Mostly engraver only has 100-200mm/s engraving speed; some engraver has 400mm/s engraving speed. the fast speed can reduce your cost.

5) Photo graph engraving function
If you want to engrave a photo graph, you must follow the step as follows:
Scan the photo-save as BMP file-Convert it to gray degree BMP file-convert it to B&W bmp file-Use the laser software to open it and engrave.
But mostly China low cost laser engraver can't do this.
I only found the Redsail RS3040A can open the color Image file directly, it can reduce the procedure. it use a REDSAIL patent, so it is more expensive than others.

6) Support after sales
There is a proverb in Chinese traditional language, "Buy a Cow behind a hill".
Some supplier only can sell the machine to you without support.
Before you buy the machine, you should search the trademark of this supplier or the Model of the machine in the Google, if you can't find anything about this machine in the Google, you can know how to do.
The Internet is virtual world, you can belive it or not, but if you find many distributors sell same kind of engraver in the Internet, i think you can belive this company or products.

Some supplier sell the laser engraver with 999 USD, some supplier sell it with 1999.00 USD, someone sell it with 2999.00 USD; the price is diffrent, the quality is diffrent, the survice is diffrent, don't expect a horse can run fast and the horse eat nothing. everybody want to buy the machine with the lowest price, so you must learn more before your decision.

You can inquire you supplier about this technical question, and check his answer:
1) Lenth of Laser tube
2) Distance of up and down wok plate
3) Control panel
4) Software comatible with coreldaw or photoshop
5) How to engrave the photograph?
6) How about the engraving speed?
7) How to set the cutting mode(draw mode) or raster mode?
8) How can get the service? can you provide a service phone or service email address?

I think after your get the answer from your supplier, you can know which machine is your need.

Salty72

09-02-2006, 01:53 AM

Made in Chine

SO what lasar do you sell??

zoltan

09-02-2006, 02:42 AM

Hi,

Redsail confirmed that they got the money. I was told the machine will be shipped today. I ask them to put a big red sticker with FRAGILE. The carrier is TNT. I had very bad past experiences with them. I hope would not be the same. As a general impresion till now Leo is doing a very good job, very helpful. Let's see what happens.

Zoltan

Made_in_China

09-02-2006, 03:48 AM

How to buy China Low cost laser engraver[/FONT]

I only can provide some advice about the procuedue, expect it helpful for you business, i'm not responsible for what has happened if you follow this procuedue.

1) Know your need and select the correct Model and supplierYou can check the article about "How to select the China Low cost laser engraver", then you can find the answer.

2) Buy it from China supplier or local Distributor? The Best way is buy the machine from your Local distributor, it is a safe way, maybe the price is higher than the China supplier, but it can reduce the risk and time. time is money!!!

The local distributor can easily provide the service after sales, and you can get the better conversation with the distributor than China supplier.

If there isn't local distributor in your land, you need to buy it from the supplier directly. I suggest you can provide a design file(PLT file and BMP file) to you supplier by e-mail, and let them do this:

a) Engrave or cut it according your design file, take a photo or scan it and resend it to you by email.
b) Provide the Model of the machine and working time(laser processing time)
c) If possible, you can pay 30-40 USD(Courier shipping cost) to your supplier and let them to send the samples to you by courier, then you can check the samples by eye and reduce your risk:)

3)How to ship the engraver
a) By Courier
I suggest you select the courier, such as TNT, DHL, UPS, Fedex. it can provide a door to door service, and reduce the procedure in custom or other hidden expense.
i) The the courier can provide good insurance, if the laser tube is broken, your supplier can claim them and resend a new one to you.
ii) You can get the tracking number, and monitor the transit.
iii) You can let your supplier write a low price on the invoice, then you can reduce the custom duty:)
b) By common air cargo
It is fast speed same as Courier, the cost is almost half of the courier, but it has some hidden cost when you pick up the goods from the airport:
i) custom duty
ii) you must pick the goods from the airport by yourself.
iii) other fee in airport
The biggest problem is that when you back your office, you open the package and find the laser tube is broken, nobody can provide the insurance for you.
c) By sea
It is a low cost way, it is only suitable for bigger machine, such as 36" or 48" machine.

4) How to transfer the payment
For the low cost the machine, the amount is a little, the best way
is PAYPAL or wire transfer.

5) About the package of the machine
You can instruct your supplier use the wooden case instead of the
carton, the carton is easy to be destroyed when loading and
unloading, or destroyed by rain.

6) Which spare parts i need to buy?
The Laser tube and reflecting mirror, focus lens is a consumable
part, i suggest you can buy 1 pcs laser tube, 3 pcs reflecting
mirror, 1 pcs focus lens for spare, it is enough.

After you confirm the item 1-6, then begin to buy it.

1) Let the supplier to send the proforma invoice to you, and write the 1-6 item on the PI.

2) Transfer the payment

3) Let the supplier send 3 photos of the goods to you before dispatching, the SN or the Model must be on the photo, the package must be on the photo, the laser tube must be on the photo.

4) Let the supplier send the dispatching information to you, then you can know the goods has been dispatched.
i) By courier: Tracking number
ii) By air cargo: Air Way Bill
iii) By sea: The Bill of Lading

5) When you receive the goods, please check the package ASAP, if it is
broken, if the laser tube is broken, you can inform you supplier to
claim the transport company. I said in Item 3, if the goods is shipped by courier, the supplier can claim it; if the goos shipped by air cargo or by sea, the supplier can't claim them.

6) If you don't know how to install the machine, please contact your
supplier to get the support, the best way is use the MSN camera.

OK, Enjoy your Low Cost Laser Engraver, wish you have a good business!!!

Aksess

09-02-2006, 05:32 AM

Hummmm Made in China sounds like Redsail to me.

hkxy

09-02-2006, 07:34 AM

Laser

ServoGuy

09-02-2006, 05:02 PM

Laser

hkxy;
Made_In_China sounds just like you...
Are you Made_In_China? :)

Aksess

09-02-2006, 05:06 PM

I do not think that is him the english is a lot better :)

KTP

09-02-2006, 06:02 PM

"Mostly engraver only has 100-200mm/s engraving speed; some engraver has 400mm/s engraving speed. the fast speed can reduce your cost."

Slow! I am getting 45 inch/sec (1143mm/s) speeds on my homebrew laser from plotter system I am building. I could go quite a bit faster if I could get more steps/sec out of Mach3. I will probably write my own raster to step/dir in a microcontroller since it is fairly easy. Then I will have speeds approaching 2000mm/sec! Plus an RF excited laser has a faster rise time because they keep the gas pre-ionized with a tickle pulse. I don't think most simple glass tube HV dc excited lasers do this?

Aksess

09-02-2006, 08:16 PM

For those of you having trouble with Inkexpress and my delima with Redsail may get so mome resolve in contacting the China Council for the Promotion of International Trade (CCPIT) or the China Chamber of International Commerce (CCOIC) at http://english.ccpit.org/ I do not know if it will do any good or not but it is worth a shot. I will contact every available contact that I can find. Maby some out there can lend a helping hand to the little man.

hkxy

09-02-2006, 10:39 PM

ServoGuy :
NO,I am not (MADE IN CHINA)
I come from Beijing,I make the laser and the model airplane.I do not know him,But I thought perhaps he will come from
China future to be able to become the friend.

Aksess :
Your judgment is correct.

KTP :
You need the new judgment,Regarding RF and speed.The money has the very big difference.

KTP

09-03-2006, 12:30 AM

hkxy:

So what is the typical rise time for a sealed glass tube DC excited laser from China? The RF laser manufacturers publish their specs. Rise times are around 150usec or a bit faster. Actually, when you think about it, I guess this really needs to be taken into account when doing high speed engraving. Certainly you could engrave a solid line at 45in/sec but you would have problems doing a 500 dashes per inch line at 45in/sec because of the rise (and fall) times. Now I am curious how fast a hv dc excited glass tube CO2 laser can be cycled on and off..

Made_in_China

09-03-2006, 02:36 AM

I found this interesting BBS via Google, i post 2 articles yesterday, it waste me 2 hours.
I only expect to share some ideas about the China low cost laser engraver, you can belive it or not, it is up to you.

But I regret now what I did yesterday, it waste me a lot of time i plan to go fishing with my lovely girl friend yesterday.

To KTP:

1) Response time
The HV laser power and Glass laser tube is controlled by the DSP or uP controller through the Optic component, the Mini response time is almost 1.5ms (1500uS). because the Glass laser tube all made by hand, this laser tube is different that laser tube; the laser tube made in a Rain day is different in Sunny day...
Some Laser tube factory is day off during the Rain Season...
The Co2 Gas in the laser tube is more, the response time is longer, the output power is stronger...

2)Motion system
The China Laser engraver use the linear guide way and stepper motor, the fast speed of the stepper motor is almost 800mm/s, if it run fast than 1000mm/s, the engraving effect and accuracy has some problem:)
The accelerate motion curve of the stepper motor is a trapezoid shape, the increase speed area and decrease speed area only waste the time:)

The Epilog and GCC(Laser pro) use the DC serve motor and wheel guide
way, it can run at fast speed easily (almost 1300mm/s)

3)Engraving speed
Some China laser engraver use the DSP control system, it can run fast than 800mm/s, it use the software compensation algorithm, otherwise the engraving effect is unacceptable.

You can ask a guy who use the Epilog or GCC laser engraver(RF laser tube), if he want to engrave photograph with a good effect, how fast speed he use?
I guess the answer is 400-600mm/s:)

4) Cutting speed
I think nobody can say his machine's cutting speed is fast at 800mm/s, because it is unpractical.

When you are driving your car at a crossroad, if you want to turn right you should reduce your speed; if you want to reverse, you should brake your car.

The car is same as the laser head, the good control system(such as DSP) like Mr. Michael Schumacher , he can drive fast in curve road; the good motion system like the Ferrari 599 GTB car:)

Some customer(cutting Fabric) like the fast cutting speed, because the cutting edge and cutting accuracy is NOT important;
Some Customer(cutting Model or acrylic) like the the good cutting effect(The cutting edge is smooth), because the slow speed can get the better effect and accuracy.

I like to discuss technical detail with KTP, i have little knowledge about RF laser tube:)

ServoGuy

09-03-2006, 02:49 PM

Leo_RedSail

09-04-2006, 11:25 PM

To every friend,
Redsail has very strict rule for us to serve the customers, we can NOT debate with customers, so I have to see in CNC without defending. We finally get the permission from the boss who returned today.
If you want to know the truth about our support and service, please check the blog,
http://lowcostlaser.blogspot.com/

txcowdog

09-04-2006, 11:52 PM

Leo

I thank you for giving us a complete detail of your side of the story. I only have one question. If the laser tube was broken when Aksess received it, why are you only willing to pay for part of the price to replace it?

Leo_RedSail

09-04-2006, 11:54 PM

To everyone,
In the blog, http://lowcostlaser.blogspot.com/
you will find what is our support and service, what is our attitude and plan for the problem.
Our company still wants to resolve the problem and still wants to help Aksess. Hope Mr. Aksess can think about our plan seriously.

hkxy

09-04-2006, 11:56 PM

Has not serviced the service?

Leo_RedSail

09-05-2006, 12:05 AM

to txcowdog,
because there are many reasons can result in the break. It can be broken before he got, it also can be broken when he carried the goods, it also can be broken when he set up. The problem is he claimed so late, and nobody can figure out what is the real reason. What we can promise is the machine works very well before shipping. We bought the insurance for this goods, and it already becomes impossible to claim to Airplane. We consider to undertake part of the fee because we think it can be and can not be Mr.Dwight's fault. Based on the rule to serve the customers, our company undertake part of the fee which does not mean our company think we have fault.

KTP

09-05-2006, 12:33 AM

I think you should start sending the engravers with the tube in a separate cushioned box, with detailed instructions (in English and Chinese) showing how to install the tube, connect the water lines and HV lines, and align the optics. Even in the US shipping is sometimes very harsh on the package contents...I can imagine what happens during an overseas travel.

Leo_RedSail

09-05-2006, 12:51 AM

to KTP,
I will forward your message to my head office.
There is another problem here, some customers of RS3040A are not very professtional in electric. If we ship separately, customers have to solder the laser tube themselves. It is, to some extents, hard for them, and sometime will result in the damage of the laser tube. Actually, we ship RS3040A with the laser tube soldered because we just want to make customers easy to use. And we also put cushion around laser tube where it contacts with the holder to release the force. Anyway, we will consider your suggestion seriously.

Aksess

09-05-2006, 05:31 AM

2) About service for the problem.
Our opinion is, please send the machine back for repair.

If I could afford to do you not think I would? $600 shipping one way to china.

3) About the laser tube
We have told him that there could be three reasons to result in the breaks. Because he claimed it so late

Jesus Christ the machine has not worked since day 1

he told us he had NOT the camera and his Internet connection is very slow. What can we figure out the problem in this situation?

No one told me to have these things ready. Can I be held responsible for phone service way out in the sticks? Fastest I can get

Mr. Dwight got a camera, and told us that he had no time but Chinese Sunday

Do you not think people work? I told Mr. Leo I could do it on my Sunday night Monday morning in China.

During the time when Mr. Dwight getting the camera, he chatted with our sale in MSN, where he told our sales that he maybe make a mistake in connection.

There was no mistake I made. How hard can it be to hook up 4 wires? and for soldering I have removed the laser tube and I can do better than the ones from factory. Guaranteed.

After all is said and done Me and the laser are still broke and no help in sight.

The richer get richer and the poorer get poorer. I think that will apply here.:(

And one more thing. On the invoice they send customs they only claim the machine is worth $400 US

KTP

09-05-2006, 09:21 AM

to Leo:

You say some of your customers are not proficient at electronic work and soldering. That may be true, however at some point they will need to replace the laser tube anyway, so you might as well have them install it at the beginning. I doubt few if any will ship the whole thing back to China to get a new tube installed when the 3000 to 5000 hour lifetime is up. I don't know much about your machine (if you want to send me one I could review it :) ) but I assume that the glass tube just has a short copper wire coming from the anode and cathode so the user has to solder the HV leads to these? Perhaps adding a connector could be an option, though HV connectors are pricey.

Leo_RedSail

09-05-2006, 09:40 AM

To Aksess,
I am not accustomed to debate with customers, I think it will be the last time for me to clarify what happened.

1) About claim the laser tube
The date Mr. Dwight got the machine is Aug 11th. The first message I heard from Mr. Dwight about the bad laser tube is Aug 14th 18:01, at that time the power supply has been burned out, making us more difficult to find out the reason.
2) About get camera ready for instruction.
Mr, Dwight, please check my email to you which is created at 20:47 in Aug 12th.
3) About making an appointment on Chinese Sunday.
Mr.Dwight has to work on Monday morning so he can not stay in Sunday evening (Chinese Monday morning) for a relative longer time. The exact says should be “Mr. Dwight only has enough time on Chinese Sunday.”
4) About the possible mistake Mr.Dwight gets
Mr. Dwight, please check the chat history to me on Aug 23rd 2006, the exact time is 22:49:41 (my computer time).
5) And one more thing. On the invoice they send customs they only claim the machine is worth $400 US
It is me that told the head office to fill in very little money, because Mr.Dwght told me many times he is not very rich, resulting in I want to save Mr.Dwight’s money when clearing custom, for the more we fill the more Mr.Dwight will pay. It will NOT happen to Mr.Dwight any more. And I doubt the reason and goal why Mr.Dwight says the message.

I do not want to debate like boys, I think the fact is very clear now and do not want to spend too much time in typing. Please face the fact and let BOTH of us try to find the way to resolve the problem.

Leo_RedSail

09-05-2006, 09:55 AM

Leo_RedSail

09-05-2006, 10:40 AM

to KTP,
I called our technician with your questions, the answer is as follows:

1) If the machine is working and in good condition, the user can know
how to install the laser tube and how to wire the HV and
Negative wire.

If not, the user will be confusede what he will do.

2) The Glass tube is very easy same as you said, but it is NOT easy
to install it without any guide for a starter, there is a little
skills about it.

Because the HV can be discharged through the shell of the machine, or
the moist air if the connect point has problem.
The shell of the HV wire is a special materials with withstand
voltage 20KV, it is a special HV wire.
So the HV connection point must be protected by the HV glue or HV
tape.

3) It is difficult to use a connectors for the HV wire, I think no
factory in China use this.
Because the connector has resistance, if the connection isn't good,
it can bring the problem:
such as burning, spark, ... and others

ServoGuy

09-05-2006, 10:56 AM

to hkxy and Made_in_China,
What do you think about the suggestion from KTP, is it easy for a new beginner to solder the glass laser tube?
We are considerring KTP's suggestion in order to better our service.
I also need other friends' suggestion. We will consider the whole thing. The following is my assumption, for most customers, I think they would rather face the risk as late as possible, and they will face less risk when they are familar with the product.

KTP has a point, given the life of the tube it is reasonable to expect to have to change the tube a few times over the lifetime of the laser engraver. Some of us know how to deal with high voltage and have access to the right materials, and some of us don't.

Why not offer an optional laser replacement kit with:
• High temperature solder, if required. Otherwise regular solder
• A cheap throw away soldering iron
• Alcohol wipes
• High voltage electrical tape
• Detailed instructions, also to be shipped with the tube
• Etc.

I myself have the right supplies, but I think most others would be willing to pay for the kit just so they don’t have to run around town trying to get the right supplies.

One other option:
Is it possible to pack the area around the tube with shock absorbing foam, or even to mechanically disconnect the laser tube, but leave the wiring intact so it can be completely encased in shock absorbing foam for the long bumpy trip to the customer? You would have to stick removable warning labels to keep them from accidentally powering up until they unpack and remount the laser tube. But that may be less of a pain than mounting and soldering in the tube.

Just some thoughts…

Aksess

09-05-2006, 04:44 PM

I sent pictures on the 12'th asking if water suppose to be in the center tube I even told tech support that when I opened the machine the laser tube was loose inside the compartment. No reply to that either. :( I desordered the tube last night and used a vacuum pump today to vacuum out the water and the end where the laser comes out does have a break in it in the center tube where I asked if water suppose to be in it. So I will apologize to Redsail and to Leo In all honesty Leo has been one heck of a guy during all this dilemma. I suppose it is the language barrier that is most of the problem. The Tube must have been damaged during shipping. I did not see the break until today. I did have it hooked up correctly and In all honesty it is a good product I was just on the receiving end of a machine damaged in shipping and I had no way of knowing. I guess I will buy a new tube when I can afford one, Maybe in a Month or two.

hkxy

09-05-2006, 08:51 PM

ServoGuy :
Very obvious:Such welding tool shortcoming and danger:
1,High voltage:Danger
2,You will not be able to adjust the light the route.
3,.....
But I have means solution this question and the question,In me on the machine which sells face Europe,I use this means.
Even I may in install the software for the customer,The adjustment turns off the light path,

miljnor

09-06-2006, 01:43 PM

Hkxy you really need to work on the english translations! Everyone probably ignors your post because we can't fathom the meaning!

txcowdog

09-06-2006, 02:14 PM

Hkxy
Even with the bad translation, I never ignore your posts. I may need to take a little more time to understand what you are saying, but, you always add important information to the discussion. I am happy to have you here. Please continue to post.

miljnor

09-06-2006, 09:24 PM

I may need to take a little more time to understand what you are saying, but, you always add important information to the discussion. I am happy to have you here. Please continue to post.

well if your understanding some of them then post a translation because I will be damnd if I can make sense of the last few!

I didn't mean to stop posting just to get the translational stuff worked out!

Leo_RedSail

09-06-2006, 09:33 PM

To Aksess,
We just want to clarify the truth because we care nothing but our reputation.
Very glad clearing some misunderstanding between us.
Considering your financial situation, our company decides to provide you a FREE laser tube by DHL. The laser tube will be fully test before shipping, please make sure there is no any damage when you get it.
If you find the laser engraver still does not work, we have to inspect it in China not only by MSN, so please send the laser engraver back, we promise to fix it.

KTP

09-06-2006, 09:52 PM

Nice offer Leo.

Aksess, if you happen to be near Seattle, WA I might be able to come by and help you hook up the new tube. I have some experience with DC excited laser tubes and also have a Synrad power wizard 1-250W power meter. I would be interested in seeing the guts of the machine and the quality of construction. I can't get over the fact that they are priced so low. It almost hurts me to build my own engraver knowing that I could have bought one from China for less money :rolleyes:

I am curious, does this laser tube and power supply need a ballast resistor, is that built in, or is the power supply designed to not need it?

Leo_RedSail

09-06-2006, 10:04 PM

to KTP,
The baLLast resistor is bult in power supply.

Aksess

09-07-2006, 05:14 AM

KPT I am in southeast Tennessee. But you are still more than welcome to come by and poke around at it! Leo I thank you and the company verry much, I hope to be posting photos of work real soon!

Glyn Jones

09-07-2006, 07:02 AM

Hi – my name is Glyn and I live in Devon in the UK. (Sounds like an AA meeting!) I have read through your posts with interest. I am looking to buy a laser cutter/etcher but I am getting very confused about the whole thing! I was wondering if anyone could offer me any advice. I would like to be able to do the following:-

1) Cut through plywood/hardwood up to 10mm.
2) Cut and etch from the same set of plans
3) Both raster and vector cuts.
4) Run directly from CorelDraw and TurboCad
5) Have as large a bed size as possible.
6) Spend as little as I can, but be able to use it!

I am amazed by the difference in prices for different options, but those that seem to provide what I need are :-

Ink Express IE1200 at $5K
Emission technologies kit at $18K
Pinnacle M40 from signwarehouse at $16K
Does anyone have any of these that actually work? – and would they recommend them? Or would anyone recommend any other machine that they use, rather than sell!

I live in the UK and currently the exchange rate with USD is great for us, so I really need to get the ball rolling!
Any help would be much appreciated!

hkxy

09-07-2006, 08:01 PM

Pinnacle M40 from signwarehouse at $16K
???
Has his website?
www.???????

KTP

09-07-2006, 08:10 PM

Always amuses me that people ask what is the website for xyz company without trying www.xyz.com :rainfro:

I will give hkxy a break since he struggles enough with the translators :D

www.signwarehouse.com

hkxy

09-07-2006, 08:33 PM

KTP THANKS
http://www.signwarehouse.com/engravers/pinnacle_m.htm
????
M40 40 Watt $ 15,995
25*18(635*457.2)

It s very good

I THINK
IE gcc ALL MADE IN CHINA
Emission MADE IN USA BUT Machine parts from in china
I have more choices.

Glyn Jones

09-08-2006, 02:49 AM

Yes, but the cutting bed is only 24x18, wheareas the IE1200 is 48x30, and it's triple the price! I can't seem to find anyone with good reports on the IE1200. Does it actually work?

Made_in_China

09-08-2006, 10:53 AM

Hello to everyone, because my work is busy, so i only have time come here in weekend:)

To Servoguy:

For your questions, my answer is as follows:

1) Do any of the low cost laser systems allow you adjust the drive current under software control?
Mostly low cost laser engravers hasn't this function, the laser power is adjusted by a regulation resistance, it is a old method, but is reliable.
Some laser engraver use the DSP system, the DSP can generate the PWM, so the laser power can be adjusted in software, but it is nonlinear.
2. If so, how fast?
It is slow.
3. All the low cost systems look pretty much the same, even though they are quite different from each other, IE300, DK40, RS3040, etc. Are they made in the same factory?
Yes, it look similar, but the structure and control system, software is different. About the factory, i don't know about this.
4. A lot of us in this group like to build their own systems. Can you recommend any supplier(s) that would be able to sell laser tubes, mirrors and optics individually?
It is impossible, because the Glass laser tube is easy cracked in transit, the mirrors and lens is a consumable parts, the supplier don't like to sell the parts to end user directly, otherwise it will bring trouble to them.
5. How much cost does the addition of software like Newdragon or Moshidraw and Redsail Easycut 2.0 add to the cost of a laser system?
The software is protected by a dongle, the price is lower, maybe less than 100 USD. The unique software corresponds unique machine.
Actually, if the software can work without the dongle, maybe a crack version instead of the original version.

Thanks for your best wish; I went to fishing on last Sunday.

To KTP:

Could you please introduce some low cost RF laser tube to me? thanks in advance:)

To Glyn:

About your laser engraver, you should know which machine could do the work you need.

1) Cut through plywood/hardwood up to 10mm.
If you want to cut 10mm poly wood in one pass, i think the 150W laser is enough.
If you want to cut 10 soft wood in one pass, the 80W laser is enough.
How is your demand of the cutting edge?
2) Cut and etch from the same set of plans
All China machine (with DSP control system) can do this
3) Both raster and vector cuts.
All China machine (with DSP control system) can do this
4) Run directly from CorelDraw and TurboCad
All China machine (with DSP control system) can run directly from Coreldraw 11,12 and AUTOCAD system, but they can’t run directly from Coreldraw X3 version.
5) Have as large a bed size as possible.
The bigger size machine is difficult to adjust the laser ray way than smaller machine,
The bigger size machine is suitable for cutting instead of the engraving.
The bigger size machine has lower accuracy than smaller machine.
I think the 60cm *90 cm with double open side door is a good choice.
6) Spend as little as I can, but be able to use it!
China laser machine is low cost and it is unbeatable.
But IE1200 only has 60W laser, it can't cut the 10mm Hardwood, it only can cut 8mm acrylic board in one pass. You can ask them if they can supply this model with 100W or 200W laser power.
Don’t think your machine in a world of fantasy. Send your design to the supplier by email right now, and let them to make a sample for you, then you can find your machine.

KTP

09-08-2006, 11:09 AM

Made_in_China:

Low cost and RF excited sealed lasers do not really go together :)

But you could look at it this way:

50 watt Synrad laser (actually produces 70+ watts for a long time)

Cost new $10,500 + $1000 for DC supply = $11,500

Lifetime: up to 45,000 hours! If you manage to use it up, can be refilled for $1500.

Cost per hour: about $0.25

High quality Chinese glass DC excited laser tube (do these go together?):

Cost new for 60 watt tube: $400? + $600 for power supply = $1000.00

Lifetime: up to 5000 hours? Probably can't be refilled, so throw away?

Cost per hour: about $0.20

Personally, I like to buy a used Synrad 50 watt for maybe $2000 which still can produce rated power for many hours before needing the $1500 refill. Total cost around $2500 with used power supply. I doubt I would buy a used Chinese glass laser tube since it could be near end of life and be a throw away item (if it even makes it to me in one piece).

Universal makes some pretty nice lasers too, and a bit cheaper than Synrad, but maybe with not quite as nice a beam quality (but with really nice air cooling which is another factor to consider).

Why can't the Chinese break into the RF excited sealed CO2 laser market? Is it a patent issue? They are not that high tech...mostly just an aluminum waveguide filled with gas and excited with a pretty simple circuit RF amplifier. Getting the long lifetime can be harder. I would have thought making ZnSe lenses with their optical AR coatings for cheap would be hard, but the Chinese seem to have that down if they can sell replacement lenses for $40 or so (they cost $200+ for made-in-usa lenses).

Leo_RedSail

09-08-2006, 11:46 AM

to Don Bialokur,

Please Check the photo. I hope it helpful for you.

Sorry, the video is bigger than 500k, please download the video from http://www.hflaser.com/download.html, select the easycut2.0 video to download.

Made_in_China

09-08-2006, 11:52 AM

KTP:

Thanks for your information.

Yes, the RF exited sealed laser has better laser mode than glass sealed tube.
The Glass laser tube can be refilled, but the cost is same as new one, so throw away.

I know a guy in China can refill the RF tube with 950 USD:)

Some China government institute made a RF laser tube, I tested it last year, but the reliable is NOT good, the laser mode is better than Glass tube, but it is less than Synrad or Universal, so they only test it in the laboratory, they don't sell it in the market.
I think the China RF laser tube will be reliable with 1-2 year; the cost of the 60W RF laser tube and power supply is less than 5000 USD.
I’m waiting it.

The used RF laser tube is a good choice, where can i buy it in the market? i want to tell our boss to buy one for test:)

g1zmo

09-08-2006, 10:56 PM

Hi

:wee: I finally picked up my Laser Engraver today (RS3040a). :banana:

If you do not use China power plug type in your country, you will need to find adapters or like me, you will need to cut all wires and put other plugs on them.

This is required at least for the power converter and the water pump.

For the laser engraver you can use a standard PC plug.

The software installation is very simple.

Until now I have tested only the blower, the pump and I power up the machine.
I am able to move the laser head using the direction keys.

I do not test the laser yet because I would like to spend a good night. :nono: (flame2)

You should have news from me tomorrow.

I hope they will be good.

txcowdog

09-09-2006, 12:12 AM

g1zmo
On the edge of my seat waiting for your results. I would like for someone to just once have a machine that comes out of the box and works as promised without any problems. I am particularly interested to know if you can cut a vector and engrave a raster. How long from the time you wired the money until you received the machine?

fractaledge3

09-09-2006, 01:41 AM

KTP

09-09-2006, 10:02 AM

Nice pictures.

What is the wattage of the RS3040A? It says 40 watt maximum, but that would be a tube of around 25 to 30 inches in length. Do you have any way of measuring the actuall wattage? You should be able to cut 3mm acrylic in 1 pass with 40 watts if you go slow enough...around 25 inches per minute or so would do it. Maybe multiple passes gives a better finish?

fractaledge3

09-09-2006, 10:36 AM

To KTP,

The tube length is about 30 inches , the machine has a ammeter from 0 to 3 milli ampere but the manual says you don't need more than 2 or you will shorten the tube age so when I cut the 3mm I adjust the ammeter to 2 this may be 70 % from the max power ,also because I am on testing phase I will never test on 3 milli ampere.

diarmaid

09-09-2006, 04:16 PM

Hi to all
I am a one how just received a machine RS3040A 2 weeks ago I test the Machine for cutting vectors it is ok To cut 3 mm acrylic from 2 to 3 passes
The quality of engraving raster is very good on acrylic, glass, wood.
From the first run I think the machine is a very good machine the software is simple but it need some improvement to increase the production cycle but it is ok.

Here is some pict for the testing (sorry for the pict quality).

Woohoo. Looks like we have one that works. Kudos to RedSail. :)

Sorry for all your trouble Aksess but I do think at this point RedSail have done everything possible to help. Make sure you get detailed instructions before trying to install the new tube! ;)

Leo, I was out of the country for a few weeks and I lost your last e-mail to me. :( Please do forward my e-mail address to your European distributor to contact me.

Unfortunately life sometimes gets in the way, and I have to put all laser purchasing plans on the back foot for the forseeable future but its still in the pipeline, just further along. But Im going to live vicariously through everyone else here while I concentrate on my cnc router. :D

g1zmo

09-09-2006, 10:16 PM

Hi
Unfortunately, I am not yet in the group with working machine. :mad:

However Redsail have an exceptional customer service.

I send an email indicating my problem this morning (Saturday) and 30 minutes later I received a call from a technician directly from the head office in China.

My laser tube is broken.
Redsail will send me a new one Monday.

g1zmo
How long from the time you wired the money until you received the machine?

Payment To Redsail (July, 31)
Qingdao seaport departure (August, 9)
Vancouver seaport arrival (August, 22)
Vancouver to Montreal by rail
Montreal Warehouse (September, 7)
Pick up (September, 8)

KTP

09-10-2006, 12:15 AM

Sorry to hear about your tube, but this makes yet another case for them to ship the tube in a separate box from the laser. The arguement that the customer can't install the co2 laser tube is moot when you have to do it anyway because of a broken unit.

muqtadir

09-10-2006, 04:14 AM

Dear Friends

How fast or slow is 3040A ?

Regards.

fractaledge3

09-10-2006, 07:04 AM

Dear Friends

How fast or slow is 3040A ?

Regards.

The speed of the RS3040A is 400 mm/s this is the max speed.
If you look at the picts that I send before the BMW Pict finished in 30 min the size is 16 cm X 9.5 cm but it can be less than that if you reduce the quality (grid & interval as on software).
On vector cutting like Pict of Nokia the area of the logo is 6 cm x 1.2 cm the length of the path is 35 cm the duration of one path is 50 second ,the logo take 2 pass to be cut so the total time is 100 second (power is about 70% of the 40 watt).
So the min speed of the machine is about 42 cm/min or 7 mm/s.

Aksess

09-11-2006, 10:51 PM

fractaledge3

09-12-2006, 01:23 AM

Woooo Hoooooooo new tube arived today and finally I am making smoke! I will post some pictures of the first cut tomorrow. I can say now this 3040a is a great little machine well worth the money and agrivation to me now. Now if I can figure out how to set the offsets to know where the machine will start I will be ok. no big deal tho paper is real cheap for starters.

Congratulations,
Try this for offsets
37
72
the start will be from top left just down the table mounting screw, you may fine tune this offsets according to your machine.

diarmaid

09-12-2006, 06:35 AM

Woooo Hoooooooo new tube arived today and finally I am making smoke! I will post some pictures of the first cut tomorrow. I can say now this 3040a is a great little machine well worth the money and agrivation to me now. Now if I can figure out how to set the offsets to know where the machine will start I will be ok. no big deal tho paper is real cheap for starters.

I repeat my 'congrats' from weeks ago. ;) Keep us informed m8, and good luck. :)

perpetumobil

09-15-2006, 09:27 AM

Aksess

09-15-2006, 11:35 AM

I have been so busy playing with new toy I have not had time to take any photo's of stuff. First off for the price the machine is great! I have another love "other than my wife" :) It is not designed for cutting but I have had good luck cutting 3mm lexan making 3-4 passes on it. I have not engraved a photo yet but plan to this weekend. I have tried engraving on the back of a mirror and it does pretty well. Floor tile does good to I bought some 14 cent black 4"x4" tiles and it does fairly well. You need to run 2 passes on high power to get through the glazing. I will try getting photos up this weekend.

If you are in the market for an inexpensive laser the 3040A Is probably the best on the market, Tech support is via e-mail but you get a speedy and through reply. You can feel confident in purchasing from RedSail.

fractaledge3

09-15-2006, 04:42 PM

Hi
before few days I am looking for RS3040A on Redsail site.
There I can see some samples(BMW...),
somebody can tell me abbout wood cut experience like:

How deep cut is posibile make on wood with RS3040A(power,passes,deep)
and how that look(burned black edge?)

Please if somebody can help me in choise of lowcost lasser engravers for wood.
Sametime interesting me abbout Marble photo making withRS3040A?

Thank you !
P.S. Aksess,can you show some of your experiments?I think ewerybody on this post wait your comments!

Hi

I use the RS3040S to cut 3 mm plywood from 2 to 3 passes in max power and speed was 25 % of max speed.

I use it to cut 4 mm MDF from 3 to 4 passes in max power and speed was 25 % of max speed.

I am not working on min speed because the wood will be burned and this may affect the lens.

Aksess

09-15-2006, 05:36 PM

What is the max your meter shows when turned all the way up? My one only will turn up to around 1.5

g1zmo

09-15-2006, 06:23 PM

Hi

I use the RS3040S to cut 3 mm plywood from 2 to 3 passes in max power and speed was 25 % of max speed.

I use it to cut 4 mm MDF from 3 to 4 passes in max power and speed was 25 % of max speed.

I am not working on min speed because the wood will be burned and this may affect the lens.

Between each passages, do you adjust the plate of work in order to keep a distance from 62mm?

KTP

09-15-2006, 07:11 PM

That would typically not be needed, since the laser beam waist has a certain length where the cut is fairly parallel. For a ~2.5" F.L. lens you would have a few mm beam waist.

Oh btw, I am betting the tube current meter you guys are reading is actually 1/10 of the tube current. ie, when you have a reading of 1.5mA that is actually 15mA of tube current. I don't know of any CO2 laser that could run on 1 or 2mA.

g1zmo

09-15-2006, 09:35 PM

I do not know why they give value in mA.

The meter value on my RS3040A goes from 0 to 3 A.

KTP

09-15-2006, 10:02 PM

heh, well that couldn't be right either. 3 amps at 20,000 volts is 60,000 watts...the power meter outside your house would be spinning at mach 3.

g1zmo

09-15-2006, 10:53 PM

When I check the wires, the full laser engraver power passes through the ammeter. The voltage is 220V.

The power used by all electronic and the step motors should be negligeable.

Howhever, I believe the efficiency for the High voltage converter is low. They put a fan near this circuits board.

220v x 1.5 A = 330W

330w x 0.75% = ~ 250W

250 W / 20KV = 12.5 mA

fractaledge3

09-15-2006, 11:10 PM

What is the max your meter shows when turned all the way up? My one only will turn up to around 1.5

Hi

The max when turned all the way up is between 1.9 to 2

fractaledge3

09-15-2006, 11:17 PM

Between each passages, do you adjust the plate of work in order to keep a distance from 62mm?

Hi

When I cut 4 mm for example I adjust the distance to 60 mm to give the 62mm on med of the cut.

perpetumobil

09-16-2006, 01:55 AM

Thank you for help!

Abbout laser power-amp meter:

1.laser converter circuit have regulator-resistor with some transistor,diac or so,when power is minimum on reg. button curent go trough resistor and disipate like heat-beacouse fan is there.

2.disipating on other parts of circuit is I think more 15-30W

3. CO2 lasser have water cooling, that mean more heat disipating in glass tube (maybee 20-30 W)

aproximately: 40(LsP)+25(GtP)+50(el.c.P)=135 W cca of power on electronic circ.incoming
That power divide with Voltage on circ.incom to get current.

for lasser beam power maybee need find point after reg.resistor(not potentiometer on board) where put mA metter, wach wich cuurent is there-AC,or DC,freqency,voltage to choise mA metter.

This is just theory,I dont hawe machine,just some experience in electronics

diference between laser beam power and circuit in. power may be 1:3

Use heat of classic light lamp to compare with lasser tube and circuit heat to find approx thermal looses.(all power is spent on heat) DONT TOUCH ANNYTHING!
Sorry on my english!

g1zmo

09-16-2006, 06:38 AM

The power used by the water pump and the big blower are not included because they have their plug.

The only place it maybe possible to move the ammeter is just before the High voltage converter.
However I don't know the voltage at this stage.
This converter doesn't look like conventional electronic.
It is composed of three sealed components.
I think one is a transformer.

-----

For protection, I see two fuses.

By the way, English is not my first language too.

perpetumobil

09-16-2006, 06:48 AM

H.V.transformer like in TV-circuit, curent must have some freqency, is taht cable from transformer to lasser koaxial? if is not then is possibile to make few turn of wire arround HV cable,then put mAmeter on end of that wire,so you can see when is power up or down

Aksess

09-17-2006, 10:23 PM

Ok I finally got some pictures up they are in my gallery here on the zone.:banana:
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=4456

Dont laugh these are the first. I hope to do a photo on granite later this week!

txcowdog

09-17-2006, 11:30 PM

Excellent work. What was the run time on Lucille Ball?

Aksess

09-18-2006, 05:08 AM

The lucy was done on my cncrouter, and it took around 4 hours. what i have done with laser is entitled laser.

diarmaid

09-18-2006, 01:05 PM

Those are really fantastic Aksess. Good Job! And a great advert for Redsail too! :)

fractaledge3

09-27-2006, 07:58 AM

My laser tube has a problem after a cooling ring at the end of the tube was separated and there is no laser beam come outside the tube but there is a beam inside the tube I don't Know why it was separated I contact redseal they told me just glue that part , I glue it but nothing happened I think that the mirror inside the tube was affected and become darker I don't Know if it was dark normally or not, any way it is separated under normal operation , So please Take care with your laser tube and make sure that this part was fixed correctly.
If you have any information about how to fix this problem or any information about that cooling ring and its functions other than cooling the mirror just inform me .

g1zmo

09-27-2006, 09:03 AM

I received my new laser tuber.
I installed it with help of Redsail from China.
Great support

Unfortunately, I have another problem now. :mad:

I adjusted the mirrors and I did tests to understand the software.

After few tests on paperboard, by chance, I saw light at the first mirrors.

My first mirror was broken
I don’t know when and why.

Do you know what can be happened ?
I hope this will not occur often.

hkxy

09-27-2006, 09:14 AM

g1zmo :

IS k40,6090,1280????

g1zmo

09-27-2006, 09:23 AM

g1zmo :

IS k40,6090,1280????

RS3040A

hkxy

09-27-2006, 09:42 AM

Interesting machine.
I also produce the similar product in 2 years ago.

KTP

09-27-2006, 09:59 AM

fractaledge3: A lot of laser tubes don't have water cooling of the mirror but since they went to the trouble to water cool this mirror (actually the output coupler) I guess it overheated when the glue or whatever holding the cooling ring came off. ZnSe should be a light yellow/amber color that is easy to see through (laser off!). If it is badly discolored the tube is probably a throw away.

g1zmo: That is a very unusual picture. Do you have a picture of what one of your "good" mirrors look like? Possibly there was quite a bit of dirt or something on this mirror and when the laser beam hit it, it generated enough heat to burn off the coating. I have never seen a mirror burned that bad though. Is it protected gold?

fractaledge3

09-27-2006, 11:51 AM

g1zmo :

Can you send a pict for your tube showing the cooling part and the color of the end mirror

fractaledge3

09-27-2006, 12:04 PM

hkxy:

If I get a new laser tube what do you advise me to do to avoid this problem again (separation of cooling ring or lack of cooling).

g1zmo

09-27-2006, 02:58 PM

g1zmo :

Can you send a pict for your tube showing the cooling part and the color of the end mirror

This is pictures of my non working laser tube.
The end mirror is not clean.

fractaledge3

09-27-2006, 04:29 PM

This is pictures of my non working laser tube.
The end mirror is not clean.

Thank you

It is very helpful pict , I think my problem was comming from bad gluing of the cooling ring and when It was separted the mirror was over heated and became darker so no laser comming out from my tube.

hkxy

09-27-2006, 09:33 PM

fractaledge3 :

Can be replaced, I made some members of the glass.

YOU :
1, not collision.
2, the flow of water completely-----and then power
NO : Power --- water (this is wrong)
3, if the temperature is low and water ice, NO Try to use the CAR, BUS Antifreeze Solution.

hkxy

09-27-2006, 09:38 PM

g1zmo
IT IS 40W?

g1zmo

09-27-2006, 10:25 PM

g1zmo
IT IS 40W?

Yes

However, I have no manner to confirm the maximum power is really 40w.

fractaledge3

09-27-2006, 11:15 PM

hkxy:

If the mirror at the end of the tube (output coupler)was affected and there is no laser beam came outside the tube,is there any action can solve this problem other than replacing the tube.

g1zmo

09-28-2006, 09:43 AM

fractaledge3 :

If it is not possible to repair it, you should keep it for spare parts If your laser beam dies on another tube, you may take the good laser parts to replace the burned parts.

g1zmo

09-28-2006, 09:58 AM

Before I stopped my tests because my first mirror is broken, I observed that independently if I used .jpeg or .plt files , the engraving is done like a printer (line by line with a sequence of on/off).

I expected that with a .plt file, the laser engaver works like a plotter or CNC.

It is a particularity of low cost lasers or all China lasers work like this ?

fractaledge3

09-28-2006, 10:30 AM

g1zmo

09-28-2006, 10:58 AM

From setting menu select HPGL settings and then select cutting option

Thanks :cheers:
I will try this

Can you explain to me what serves INTERVAL option (0-100 lines) in HPGL & Image setting and GRID option (1-100) in Image setting ?

Regards

fractaledge3

09-28-2006, 02:03 PM

Thanks :cheers:
I will try this

Can you explain to me what serves INTERVAL option (0-100 lines) in HPGL & Image setting and GRID option (1-100) in Image setting ?

Regards

As I understand from testing the grid option when you increase the number this will reduce the quality like when you reduce the image resolution,
The Interval option (lines) when you increase the number this will reduce the number of scanning lines (reduce the quality).

Best quality with good time for image
GRID 3
Interval 4

Best quality with good time for HPGL Engraving
Interval 5-6

Ropsch

10-01-2006, 09:55 AM

Hello to eveyone in this forum!

I have been reading your posts for a while now, and you helped me a lot to make my choice in buying a new laser engraver.
It is a Redsail RS6090C, a bit bigger in size than the ones discussed here, but it runs on the same system than the smaller machines from Redsail.
To put it ahead: There was a bit of a trouble in the beginning, but now it works well, and I am completely statisfied whith what I got for my money.
So here is the story:

To make my choice, I contacted all chinese companies I could find. The replies of Redsail seemed to be most promising, mainly because they were friendly, quick, and written in good english, without random words put togehter like it was the case with the other companies. :) Special thanks to Amanda for replying so quick and kindly for all my emails (about 40 by now)

The machine was shipped to Austria through Hamburg. Shipping to Hamburg was arranged by Redsail, further transport was supposed to be done by their "forward agent", a german cargo company. Redsail told me, the forward agent would call me when the machine arrived in hamburg. Well, there seemed to be a bit of misunderstanding, because the cargo company called me on day 35, asking me what the hell was going on. It turned out that shipping was much faster than Redsail told me, and the crate was at their depot for 2 weeks already, and it was me who should have called them for further instructions. Okay, no big deal, the rest of the transport worked out better, customs were done in Vienna without problems, and I finally recieved the machine 2 months (!) after ordering.

It took me almost a day to unpack and install the machine, I double-checked everthing just to make sure. This is when I came to the real problem , I could not get the laser to work. Head movement worked, I could use the software to control the machine, the only thing that did not work was the laser. It turned out, it was the high voltage supply`s fault. After some trying, I accidently found a way to make it work: With the machine off, I made the software turn on the laser signal, and then I switched the machine on. (I guess this was due to the bad logic IC in the power supply, which did not accept the 4,5 volt laser signal as a stable "high" signal, only when it was present when switched on) This way the laser made the beam. I knew there was still something wrong, but at least I knew the tube was okay. Well, my happiness did not last for too long, because the second time I did this switch-on trick, the power supply made a big bang, and was dead. Those were some really sad moments, after 2 months of waiting...
The guys at redsail sent me a replacement, but I had to send back the broken one. Replacing the power supply took another two weeks.
The new one worked as it was intended to be, and finally I could start adjusting the mirrors and get to the fun part.

In general it`s not more and not less than what I expected. Adjusting took me another day, I even had to readjust a displaced mirror by drilling some new holes, but the basics are done, and it seems to be stable, I don't think there will be need for readjusting anything.

I plan to do some additional improvements:
- use the workshop's compressor instead of the nosy air pump.
- install one common power switch for air assist, ventillation and laser tube
- install switches at the end position of the axes to avoid that loud noise the belts make when the head is directed over its limits by software (it is pretty stupid they did not care about this)

so here is my conclusion: this machine is definitely not plug and play, but with some skills you can make it do good work, and when set up properly, its definitely worth the money. Redsail is a trustable company, they have good customer support, and they help you with all your questions.
If you want to have fun out of the box, you`ll have a better deal with the europeans or americans. But know there are some guys who payed 1/4 for the same :)

diarmaid

10-01-2006, 10:05 AM

Thanks Ropsch. Great review. Have fun with your new machine and if you get a chance please post some pics of it, the changes you make, and what you make with it. :)

Klettke

10-03-2006, 08:00 AM

I recently purchase an IE500 from Ink Express. I am fine with the quality of construction and the price was very good. I ordered a spare laser tube and I am still waiting for that to be delivered. After sales service is very very difficult and I have had to fight for it.
My biggest complaint is the software. It is difficult to follow and the manual sucks big time. I am still trying to find someone who is proficient to help or provide training for a day.
I will post when I recieve the spare tube as promised. If anyone can provide help with Easycut DSP4.0 software or has found an alternat program or driver please let me know.

hkxy

10-03-2006, 10:43 AM

DSP4.0?

usb OR PCI ?

Klettke

10-03-2006, 06:37 PM

The laser engraver and software communicat via rs232 serial port. I know it talks about a pci card and one was supposed to be included, but everything works perfect via serial.
There is a a USB port on the side of the engraver and a USB thumbdrive was included with the laser. I haven't tried to connect the computer and the engraver via USB, but it has download from the Thumbdrive.

fractaledge3

10-03-2006, 07:46 PM

Klettke:
I can help just send your questions and the software manual PDF

fractaledge3

10-03-2006, 08:20 PM

Klettke

10-03-2006, 09:53 PM

The file size is 1.76 meg pdf file and I am restricted to 500kb file upload.
Any suggestions

g1zmo

10-03-2006, 10:54 PM

The file size is 1.76 meg pdf file and I am restricted to 500kb file upload.
Any suggestions

I think the pdf file is available at http://www.cndiy.cc/com/designedu/down/1130379698.pdf

fractaledge3

10-03-2006, 10:55 PM

Klettke:
Can you send the software website?

g1zmo

10-03-2006, 10:58 PM

I didn't have the chance to test on marble because my tube mirror was burned, but I can tell from testing on wood you should do the following on Photoshop:
1- convert the pict from color to gray scale
2- convert the gray scale image to black & white (bitmap)use the same image resolution & diffusion dither method
3-On Easycut sofware from setting menu select image setting then use
Grid (3) or (4)
Interval (4) or (5)
This may give good results.

Why do you suggest using Photoshop first instead of using directly color pictures?
Is it because the result is better or you are never being able to have good result otherwise?

Based on their little software demo video, it should be possible to use directly color picture.

Personally, I did multiple tries without any success. I should do other tests this weekend after I will install my new mirror.

For sure, I will try your method with diffusion dither conversion.

I don’t know if more expansive china laser engravers play with beam power to give a better result.

Somebody used LMM (Laser Marking Material) to mark metal, glass or ceramic?

fractaledge3

10-03-2006, 11:06 PM

Is it like that file on redsail website?

http://www.hflaser.com/easycut40.pdf

g1zmo

10-03-2006, 11:09 PM

Klettke:
Can you send the software website?

I don’t know

The software used by Redsail and Ink Express is the same but not necessary the same version.

RS3040A uses Easycut 2.0
RS5060/6090, IE500 use Easycut 4.0 (required because it can adjust the laser power)

I compared the documentation provided by both companies for the version 4 and it is almost the same.

fractaledge3

10-03-2006, 11:15 PM

g1zmo:
Because I never grantee the result from using the software directly some times good and always not so with this method you will get the nearest result to the pict .

fractaledge3

10-03-2006, 11:18 PM

g1zmo:
You can mark on glass or ceramic directly no need for LMM

g1zmo

10-03-2006, 11:25 PM

g1zmo:
You can mark on glass or ceramic directly no need for LMM

Maybe but with LMM, it seem possible to mark in color. (Black, White, Blue, Green...)

fractaledge3

10-04-2006, 07:50 AM

No idea

g1zmo

10-04-2006, 11:37 AM

From setting menu select HPGL settings and then select cutting option

I tried it with success. :wee:

Many thanks

I didn't have the chance to test on marble because my tube mirror was burned, but I can tell from testing on wood you should do the following on Photoshop:
1- convert the pict from color to gray scale
2- convert the gray scale image to black & white (bitmap)use the same image resolution & diffusion dither method
3-On Easycut sofware from setting menu select image setting then use
Grid (3) or (4)
Interval (4) or (5)
This may give good results.

However, I am not able to have any good result with bitmap file.

I always have a big burned rectangle.

Also, I do not know if it is normal but when LOWED is selected on the engraving setting, It is possible to send only 8 bytes to the laser via RS232. :confused:

Can you send a small bitmap file and the carving.out file generated ?

Regards

fractaledge3

10-04-2006, 04:21 PM

g1zom:

You welcom any time.

the carving.out file have this settings
grid (2) interval (2) lowed

width 150

speed 16

origin offset
x 37
y 73

fractaledge3

10-04-2006, 04:31 PM

g1zom & Aksess:

Do I need any special tools, materials or technique to weld the new tube?

g1zmo

10-04-2006, 05:54 PM

g1zom & Aksess:

Do I need any special tools, materials or technique to weld the new tube?

This is almost standard.

You need HV tape.

You cannot weld directly to the laser nodes.
You must first remove a little pellicule.
Then it should be surrounded by small wires (3 x ~5mm) ...

Good luck !

fractaledge3

10-04-2006, 08:14 PM

g1zmo:

Many Many.... thanks

g1zmo

10-04-2006, 10:42 PM

I am discouraged. :boxing:

No software support and poor documentation from RedSail.
The easycut.hlp file is missing.
All my emails are ignored.

g1zom:

You welcom any time.

the carving.out file have this settings
grid (2) interval (2) lowed

width 150

speed 16

origin offset
x 37
y 73

I tried multiple times your carving.out file.
I was to always stop it because it exceeds the capacity of my axis in the two directions (up & down). I do not want to break another thing.

Are you sure this file can be work on your laser engraver?

I tried also your bitmap but I have the same kind of problem.

I re-installed the software and now I am able to generate file using LOWED parameters.

I was able to see some parts of original Black/White file but it always misses some or almost all parts (left/right).

I play with Grid, Width and Interval without any success.

It seem grid affect the size.

When you upload the file in the laser, the start led is lit or not?
Do you press start when the file is completed uploaded or you start the laser before?

pal_signs

10-05-2006, 02:54 AM

First of all my greetings to all that have been writing to the laser machines section. You have all been very helpful to me.

I bought Rabbit HX40A from Jinan Hengxing
website: http://www.hxlaser.com/en/index.htm

The machine arrived to me packed well, the price was very good and i set it up. Everything is fine but the software. They sent me the NewlyDraw 1 by Newlysoft (website:www.0123.com.cn). At this point I have to agree with everybody that the after sales support is just not there.Hundreds of emails to everybody if they can help me and can do something.Unfortunately noone.

I found this forum 3 days ago and have been reading it ever since.
My machine works perfectly but only in the half size of my engraving area.

I guess it is a problem of software and i saw that many suggest the moshidraw software by moshisoft. I browsed their website with the help of babelfish but I don't know which version to download.

Can anyone help me with this one?

fractaledge3

10-05-2006, 07:22 PM

g1zom:

Be sure of that:

1- Before you send the file press the test button to test the laser power then adjust the ammeter to 0.9 mille amperes while pressing the button.

2- Adjust the focus 6.2 cm from the material surface to the diamond plate that holding the lens.

3- Press start (the led will be off).

4- Don't move the laser head any where just put your wood piece at top left corner .

5- Adjust the setting like the attached picts.

6- Send the file.

Good luck..

g1zmo

10-05-2006, 11:41 PM

Thanks for the information fractaledge3 but I do already what you explain.

I finally found the problem. :banana:

I don’t have the problem in Cutting mode but in Image mode only.
The big difference is the size of the file.
When the size is big, I have a problem with my serial connection.
Data bits are lost and the laser head offset move and strike the top or down randomly.

I tried with my old PII 300 instead of my Athlon 64 and now it works well.

I need now to find a manner to add a working serial port on my PC.

fractaledge3

10-05-2006, 11:52 PM

g1zmo

10-06-2006, 12:08 AM

You can use "usb to serial" converter
also check the output Setting on attached pict

I already use a USB2serial (PL2303) with my PC because it doen't have serial port.

wklaser

10-08-2006, 12:33 AM

fractaledge3

10-08-2006, 01:47 AM

welcome to consider our machine, we are the company specializing in manufacture and export laser engraver/cutting machine. Not only the price , but also the quality and after servie is better than the one you mentioned.
:violin: :violin: :violin:

Hi wklaser,

I already have RS3040A from redseal; you have the same machine on attached images but as WK3040.
Can you tell us what the deference is?
Is it using the same software (Easycut 2.0)?

wklaser

10-08-2006, 01:58 AM

Hi wklaser,

I already have RS3040A from redseal; you have the same machine on attached images but as WK3040.
Can you tell us what the deference is?
Is it using the same software (Easycut 2.0)?

I know little aout the RS3040A you mentioned, we are not the same company.
But I know the company that produce the machine. :boxing:

Regarding the software, I think the difference is just the called name.

If you want to get more for our machine, please contact me by mail:
wklaser@yahoo.com

:D :D :D

fractaledge3

10-08-2006, 02:31 AM

I know little aout the RS3040A you mentioned, we are not the same company.
But I know the company that produce the machine. Maybe they imitated us. :boxing:

Regarding the software, I think the difference is just the called name.

If you want to get more for our machine, please contact me by mail:
wklaser@yahoo.com

:D :D :D

I do not know how things go in China?
"Maybe they imitated us." , can you Explain that?
Who is the original Producer of the machine?

wklaser

10-08-2006, 03:27 AM

I do not know how things go in China?
"Maybe they imitated us." , can you Explain that?
Who is the original Producer of the machine?

Hey, sir. Regarding the "Maybe they imitated us." , it's just a joke, I have delete it in my article. Our WK3040 and the model you mentioned is not the same one. We are the manufacturer of the WK3040, and the one you mentioned is produced by another company.

If you want the prcie of our machie, plase contact me by the mail: wklaser@yahoo.com

:drowning: :drowning: :banana: :banana: :wee: :wee:

Leo_RedSail

10-08-2006, 03:29 AM

RedSail is one member of China Industry Software Association, and Easycut is one of our own-developed softwares and We have the copyright of the software. Some of our software copyrights are attached.
HKxy knows Chinese, you can check if REDSAIL has many kinds of software copyright.

1) The main design idea for EasyCut 2.0 is to use simply and easily
2) We can output color JPG&BMP&TIF file directly from Easycut 2.0, it is our patent, it is unique in the world.
As picture of lady showed below, we can output it directly.
3) Our machine is compatible with Corel Draw.
4) I personally do not think there are many machines similar to RS3040A, our own-developed machine.

These days are Chinese National Holidays (around 1 week), resulting in reply some emails late, our company feel very very sorry, our company will still provide the best service as what we did.

Aksess

10-08-2006, 08:18 AM

Funny thing when we all were looking for an inexpensive laser we could only find 2-3 web sights and Redsail was one of them. Now it seems they are sprouting up everywhere. Only place we can verify product and service is Redsail. I ordered one, As many members here did we received the machines. I have had a few problems with my machine but Redsail has honored their part of the warranty above and beyond so far. Inkexpress yes you will get a machine but no service after the sale. If someone orders from one of the other people on here keep us informed on the transaction.

g1zmo

10-08-2006, 09:07 AM

Can you explain to me what serves INTERVAL option (0-100 lines) in HPGL & Image setting and GRID option (1-100) in Image setting ?

Regards

Redsail answer's (Lisa):

The INTERVAL is set for the distance for the carriage scan. You can adjust it according to your need.

The GRID is related to the engraved effect on the different materials.
For example, if you engrave in wood, if you made the parameters bigger,the engraving effect may become crude,if you adjust the parameters small, the effect will become smooth.

g1zmo

10-08-2006, 09:19 AM

Small suggestions:

Before adjusting the first time the mirrors, clean them and the lens too

Buy extra mirrors and lens. It is not too expensive and you will save on high shipping cost.

g1zmo

10-08-2006, 09:42 AM

g1zmo: That is a very unusual picture. Do you have a picture of what one of your "good" mirrors look like? Possibly there was quite a bit of dirt or something on this mirror and when the laser beam hit it, it generated enough heat to burn off the coating. I have never seen a mirror burned that bad though. Is it protected gold?

Yes they have a small layer of gold

g1zmo

10-08-2006, 09:48 AM

I would like to know if I really need to buy distilled water or if I can use tap water instead to cool the laser tube.

It was not simple to buy distilled water near my location. It is easier to find reverse osmosis water.

I can use also tap water filtered with a Brita filtration system.

miljnor

10-08-2006, 11:36 AM

It would need to be non-conductive, that’s why they call out distilled water.

If water has any contamination then it will conduct electricity.

So if the reverse osmosis water is pure then your ok (most of it is really close).

You usually can buy bottled distilled in the grocery store.

fractaledge3

10-08-2006, 05:08 PM

Hi all:
I know you will laugh at that , I have test the Shock of voltage 220v before but I never had or want to have the Shock of voltage 20KV from laser power supply even if it has 2 mille amperes.
I want to ask :
what is the hazards of taking this Shock?

miljnor

10-08-2006, 09:04 PM

well for one you could break your power supply and oh maybe currly hair! :D

I really don't know but you probably don't want to use yourself as the curly haired guinee pig!

fractaledge3

10-08-2006, 11:51 PM

miljnor :

Thank You for your comment, but I really want to know what that shock hazared can cause.

diarmaid

10-09-2006, 04:37 AM

miljnor :

Thank You for your comment, but I really want to know what that shock hazared can cause.

In a word.....DEATH!

If you want a comparison I found this:

"While lightning is, in fact, more common in certain areas of the country, it happens everywhere. Damage can be instantaneous. About half of all lightning strikes are 20,000 volts and 20,000 amps, but strikes can exceed 100,000 volts and can travel 3 miles through the ground. Each flash of lightning can contain as many as 45 strikes."

So unless you REALLY REALLY don't want to make any more posts on the zone...ever....dont touch it!

fractaledge3

10-09-2006, 07:55 AM

Thank God...I still posting!
The technical word that I search for to help all users that deal or will deal with water cooled HV CO2 lasers is like:

1-Try to use non-conductive coolant or distilled water for cooling.

2-Before using the machine check :
*The insulation of HV connections.
*The Cooling cycle for any leakage.

3-Try to make the cooling liquid in a closed cycle if not , don't touch the cooling liquid or the cooling pump during laser operation.

4-Don't touch the machine during laser operation.

miljnor

10-09-2006, 10:13 AM

20k volts can pretty much jump most standard voltage inulations so hopefully they have the supply and laser and water supply isolated pretty well with High voltage inulation.

But not touching the machine is probably prudent as well. (you know the currly hair thing! :D)

fractaledge3

10-09-2006, 10:47 AM

^^ Or just send the file and run away......Live is good(flame2)

rmacguiver

10-13-2006, 01:49 AM

might you try algolabs raster to vector conversion toolkit software? or would this still be putting the cart before the assk me on questions as i am a newb to most of this. I just know it converts raster to vector and back..... even has a demo to play with. planed on using it to cut metal with plasma energy till the final price shriveled the dream away. ouch!

mnwolgamott

10-13-2006, 06:06 AM

Intellicad should have the option tosave a drawing as a plt file. Look in the GUI interface for print, save as a file, then look for the plt file extension.

cjack

10-13-2006, 08:01 AM

IAM INTERESTED IN GETTING THIS MACHINE FOR MY WORK IN INDIA.
CAN YOU TELL ME HOW DEEPIT CAN ENGRAVE IN ONE PASS AND BY
REPETITIVE PASSES IN STEEL, BRASS,GLASS ETC.
SANJAY PARANJPE
I may solve you any about this machine difficulty and the question

I am this machine manufacturer,Very many people sell the old machine in the proxy,But he already eliminated in Asia and China,Because I designed have made the new machine

The software may support PLT,DXF,BMP,JPG...
Software support color,Line,Time,Energy control
Supports CAD2002-2006,Output,Similar also has POTOSHOP,CORELDRAW
Uses new DSP the chip

The mechanical drive components also have the improvement

HKXY

cjack

10-13-2006, 08:02 AM

Iam Interested In Getting This Machine For My Work In India.
Can You Tell Me How Deepit Can Engrave In One Pass And By
Repetitive Passes In Steel, Brass,glass Etc.
Sanjay Paranjpe

fractaledge3

10-14-2006, 11:50 PM

Hi to all:
I found this link for Safety Guidelines for High Voltage and/or Line Powered Equipment (like laser power supply )

http://members.misty.com/don/safety.htm

diarmaid

10-15-2006, 06:00 AM

Great Link fractaledge. Thanks.

fractaledge3

10-17-2006, 02:20 PM

Hi to all

Because I already dealt with laser tube and output coupler without known that information so...

Please read this page carefully it has a grate safety information

http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasercc2.htm#cc2saf

clave

10-18-2006, 06:25 PM

Hi Sidi,

I ve been reading your ideas regarding engrave on cylindrical objects,is possible to engrave onto cylindrical wood.

best
clave

jeffgolding

10-21-2006, 06:40 PM

Hi Glyn,
did you get your laser?? I am looking at the redsail
RS3040A did you consider this??
jeff

jinu117

10-22-2006, 02:56 AM

Phew... nice 32 pages of read... :)
Well, here is bottom line, I need to find someplace to cut 1/4" thick neoprenes (about 2.5"x2.5") of various shapes in numbers I guess :)
It's either I go through quoting process each cuts or get one of these economical machine to do my bidding. It seems like the resale of such product really hasn't matured from what I see. (I make phase change computer product meaning compressor shipped via ground or air shipments inside small case)... and I've yet to have shipping damage with all the shipping precaution I take. Double boxing, using instapak all over... bleh bleh.
How are this laser cut machines shipped to you to begin with? It seems like laser tube itself tend to get damaged quite often in transit? Has they resolved problem with it? Or would I be better off going looking for quotes ? :) (or if one of users of these are interested in doing some prototype work for me... that might be option too... I just spent decent amount of money for Syil X3 CNC machine so I would like to keep my expenditure tad low).
Also directly to Redsail, what have you done to improve the shipping damage issue? Having great customer support is great but it is EVEN better when customer doesn't have to use it. (It also saves you money in long run...)
My 2c... btw. I spend about $50 on packing my stuff... alone (I buy things in bulk so pricing is much lower than what you would be used to in UPS store.. like 1/2 or 1/3 so this is huge amount of money on packing). I know others who spend maybe $30 or so doing bubble wrap and some peanuts. I use instapak and formed foam and than some peanuts to fill in void if there is any. That $20 must have saved me close to $10k by now considering how some others have had to do with RMA and lose in revenue over time.
I look forward to hearing back from some people who can enlighten me on situation as well as what would be my best way to go. I am thinking intial run of about 4 design of 50 each. (about 2.5" x 2.5")
TIA.