I was in awood working store last week and I noticed their personal sized drum sanders(about 10 to 22 inches wide in size). I was just wondering if anyone has made their own. They did not look very complicated, although I know things are usually more complicated then they seem. Any thoughts or ideals about this?

A drum sander is on my list of future projects. Here's a few links to get you stated.

http://community.webshots.com/album/223700029vUZYCp

http://www.ukuleles.com/BuildingHowTo/sandthck.html

http://www.mimf.com/archives/thickness_sander2.htm

http://www.rockslide.org/drum%20sander.html

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/powertools/articles_528.shtml

Wow thanks Gerry, Those are some great links!

Hi

Here`s a picture of a wide belt sander I did in 1995. Its a planer and wide belt sander combination machine. It was more difficult to construct then my DIY CNC.

Regards Barry

Man, thats a great job Barry!

Anyone have ideas on what to use for a metal drum in the 24" to 36" range? Anyone tried to buy a replacement drum for a Performax Drum sander?

I built one many years ago using my wood lathe. It had a table mounted to a piano hinge that was tilted up with threaded rods from the bottom. I had to reverse the rotation of the motor. I turned down a glue up of 2x4s and then spiral wrapped it with sandpaper strip. It worked OK, created a lot of dust, but was kind of hard to get a really nice finish out of it. I would take pictures but the lathe had to go when the CNC arrived.

Steve

You don't really need a metal drum. A wood drum might be preferable. The websites I've looked at talk about truing the drum by putting sandpaper on the table and raising it into the drum. That makes it perfectly aligned to the table. If you use a metal drum, you'd have to make some type of adjustment to align it, and that would be a lot harder, imo.

Some time back I built my drum sander using the rollers from an old treadmill. It provided end bearings and two 24" rollers. The Motor and controller is now going on my mini lathe when I get the time.

The sander works like most of the hinged table designs except my table is fixed and the gantry holding the roller is on an axle at the table height so the roller can arc down towards the table. A crank handle on one side, like a table saw height adjuster sets the height and a lock on either side clamps it. It works ok for lighter passes, say up to an 1/16". Needs to be beefier for heavier passes or outrageously coarse paper. The belt came from ebay and I cut wooden rollers to carry the belt. The opposite of Gerry's suggestions! If I where to do it again I'll use the treadmill rollers for the belt since I already had identical rollers, a single wooden roller for the paper and save a lot of agro.

As to leveling the bed I just set it up and passed a piece of stock the side of the bed through the machine, replaced the bed with the newly cut piece and leveled the rollers to the new bed. Seems to work OK.

I have a huge industrial twin roller drum sander in the garage if anyone wants one and can pick it up (33703). 36" capacity, twin 6" Al. rollers both driven, 4" vacuum port, seperate motor for drum and belt. Currently it's got a 7.5hp 3ph motor on it that weighs a ton! Easy conversion to single phase with a decent motor though.

Too many projects not enough time.

Hey fyffe555, I was wondering if you have any pics of your homemade sander. The treadmill design sounds pretty interesting.

Anyone have ideas on what to use for a metal drum in the 24" to 36" range? Anyone tried to buy a replacement drum for a Performax Drum sander?

I've seen a lot of rubber lined steel rollers in the 4-8" diam. range come out of old printing equipment (Offset printing I think). These might work well with or without the rubber. They are generally quite wide (24-36").

Carlo

I would really like to start designing and building a drum sander. I'm still debating on whether I should go for the enclosed gantry, like the big ones use, or the newer style that have one side open for benchtop use, like some of the Performax sanders.

Would there be any interest in my plans and build journal, even though it's not really CNC?

Would there be any interest in my plans and build journal, even though it's not really CNC?

Sure. The more info available the better.

Okay, cool. I think I have pretty much decided on the open style. I think I will use Performax as my model. The local Rockler store has a couple that I can play with to get ideas. They also carry the spiral-wrap sand paper for the 22-44 model.

While I'm not close to building one, I do plan on it some day when I get back into the wood workshop. At the woodworkers show this spring, there were several hand fed ones that actually caught my eye. Kind of jointer principle, drum on the bottom in a box, a flat slick surface. Very simple, compact and with a simple old shop vac, little dust.

Interesting idea! I spent so much time looking at the comercial sanders that I never thought of doing something inovative. :)

I'm pulling this out of my head, but here is a list of my current requirements:

5"x22" sanding drum (to use Performax wraps).
Drum under the table.
One side open to double the effective width.
Drum is fixed -- it cannot be raised or lowered other than to adjust parallel.
Outfeed table is fixed to be level with the drum.
Infeed table can be moved from level with the drum to 1/8" (~3 mm) below the drum's surface. Not a lot of movement is needed here.


Was the one that you saw set up with some kind of pressure roller to feed stock through the sander, or was it up to the operator to push the stock through and apply constant pressure?

I'd think different grits of paper would through out the alignment to th outfeed table. Drum on top seems like a much simpler solution.

Even if hand fed, pressure rollers would be nice to have to hold the stock down.

The drum would have to be slightly adjustable simply to bring it into parallel with the outfeed table. The same adjustment could be used to compensate for the paper thickness.

Jointers have the same alignment issues. If you change the blades or have them sharpened, you have to realign the whole machine a little.

The two things that I like the most about having the cutting surface on the bottom is safety and dust collection. It's harder to catch your fingers under the stock than it is on top of the stock. Dust wants to fall due to gravity. Why not take advantage of that in the dust collection system?

However, I am forced to agree: Having the drum on top seems to make more sense at this point.

You'll change paper probably a lot more often than you change jointer knives. And aligning a jointer is not a trivial task.

As for gravity, with the drum on top, it throws the dust upward (or is it mostly forward?).

Collecting the dust from the bottom does make for a neater setup, not having the hose in the way. I'd be using a 4" hose, not a shop vac.

Good points! I just like the neatness aspect of having the drum on the bottom.

As I look at my workshop, I would like this to be something that I can put on the bench when I need it and store it in a cabinet when I don't need it, similar to how one would treat a portable surfact planer or a compound miter saw. I think having a fixed table on the bottom and an adjustable head will solve most of the problems.

In that vein, having the dust collection on the top means that I can use the same 4" collector hose that is above my bench now with no real modification. All of the other "bench tools" have their connector on the top. I may as well go with the flow. :)

A stow away unit would be great, as my router has taken up what little floor space I had left. :(

I have a 20" Tiwanese planer with limited shop space . I'd like to figure out how to add a sanding drum to the outfeed of the planer . I was looking at these : http://www.nicks.ca/Toolkits.html#sander1 I really liked the DIY combination machine posted earlier in this thread .

Gerry,

I know your pain. :) My workshop isn't that large either; it feels like it's shrinking all the time.

Actually I think I saw the built unit of the kit like the link to http://www.nicks.ca/Toolkits.html#sander1 at one booth that was selling that kit ore on just like it. The other was a ready to go unit with a polisted metal surface rather than laminate. Both really impressed me in their performance. As I recall the ready to go unit, you could buy additional drums to have multiple paper grit papers and it had an easy method to change drums. They both were real easy to change paper on. Like I say I was really impressed. It definitely changed my mind from a Performax style to one of these.

Phil,
The one you have a link to is the one that you saw at the show. I go to that same show every year. I was also impressed by it except for the price for the kit and what came in it. Since I like to build things that sander got me thinking about building my own but it never materialized after seeing the CNC router there. That router is why I'm here and building it instead. I had been thinking of a CNC router years ago but that one got my wheels turning again and finding a great deal on a set of 80" THK rails and trucks at Shapiro. Know of anybody with a great deal on some bipolar drivers. :D

You found 80" THK's and rails at Shapiro's! Did they realize what they we selling? I know some of them are pretty Ebay wise. I keep walking through work and seeing all kinds of tooking with THK's on it and wondered it any of it hit there when it got tossed. Bipolars drivers, hmmm.... I might know a place :D although running an 80" machine with 3977's might be a stretch.

I too saw the price on the kit and thought the same, too big of price for too little hardware. So I figured it was a future project, plate is just to full these days to do any woodworking. :violin:

Interesting idea! I spent so much time looking at the comercial sanders that I never thought of doing something inovative. :)

I'm pulling this out of my head, but here is a list of my current requirements:

5"x22" sanding drum (to use Performax wraps).
Drum under the table.
One side open to double the effective width.
Drum is fixed -- it cannot be raised or lowered other than to adjust parallel.
Outfeed table is fixed to be level with the drum.
Infeed table can be moved from level with the drum to 1/8" (~3 mm) below the drum's surface. Not a lot of movement is needed here.


Was the one that you saw set up with some kind of pressure roller to feed stock through the sander, or was it up to the operator to push the stock through and apply constant pressure?

PaulH this is exactly what I have been designing in my head except the one I have been thinking about is only about 10" wide and is designed from the start as an abrasive jointer. I use lots of highly figured wood and moe than once I have had a piece destroyed because of tearout on a jointer or planer. I now see the need for either two machines or a combo machine. One for getting the first surface level and the second for thickness sanding. I'm trying to figure a way to use preglued sleeves rather that wrapping the drum each time you need to change paper. The quick change thing is what has held me back.

Any :idea: :idea: :idea: anyone?

Mike

I hadn't thought about the possiblity of using something like this as a jointer. Great idea! Okay, I'm back to wanting the drum under the table instead of over the table. I just finished putting a drum with pillow bearings and a 4" pulley together in SolidWorks 2k5. Now I have to start thinking about the table.

The SolidWorks "Save As JPEG" is a little flaky, but you should be able to get the idea from the attached image.

The drum is a series of 3/4" discs laminated together. I will probably cut them on a band saw. 5/8" drill rod will probably make a decent axle.

turmite,

The one bad thing about pre glued sleeves is that the ridges left behind on the board where the sleeves are butted up against each other. That's why they came up with the wrapped drum to eliminate that problem. Pre glued sleeves are wrapped anyway.

You could turn the drum at a 45 degree angle into a fence but now you would need a drum longer than 10". Your board would ride up against the fence due to the pressure exerted by the angled drum. You would be sanding diagonally across the board.

Phil,

Yes, I did find them there over the summer. They were part of some electronic/robotic mail server cart. I asked Stan what he wanted for just them and he said he would sell me the whole crate of stuff for $100. Also in that crate were several servo motors, timing belts, timing pulleys, one large servo drive/motor with a planetary gearbox with encoder new in the box and about a 100 pounds in aluminum that I cashed in for scrap to help keep funding the router project. The crate was way in the back part of the yard by the fence. Lucky find.

I know which drivers you are talking about but my motors are 2.3v @ 5.5 amps. I have looked at various drivers out there and seem to keep coming back to the Gecko. Between the wife and kids the router fund has dried up and the household budget couldn't take it for a while, so I guess the router is going to have to take a siesta for now. I may be able to do some touch-ups on the power supply due to a store credit I still have at Gateway Electronics.

Your work sounds interesting if they are throwing away THK stuff. I'd like to find where it is going. I've got all my rails, trucks, screws and motors for all the axis' already.

Too bad your not a little further south, keep an ear out at midnight you might hear my cannon. Happy New Year to you.

Phil

All right, I'm back to the overhead drum design. After looking at what it would take to make a jointer-style set of infeed and outfeed tables, the adjustability is a real deal breaker. Jointers used dovetail ways with gibs. There's no way that I'm duplicating that with wood well enough to support a 22" wide table.

My current plan is to use a design similar to how the planers are set up: Some vertical rods/rails that the head can move up and down on with some bushings and screw of some sort with a handle to provide locomotion.

My biggest concern at this point is that making a gantry that is supported on only one side might have too much flex or racking. I don't think I can get the head as ridgid as necessary without supporting it on both ends.

Thoughts?

In regards to your wooden drum idea, why not use a hole saw to cut out your circles. They would be all the same and a lot less time spent than using the bandsaw. Another idea, 4 long squared blocks glued together to form a bigger long block. Turn this on a lathe to form a cylindrical drum.

Store bought open ended sanders use a rigid casting with a hollow aluminum drum fitted with a splindle end with bearings on it that fits into the casting.

A hole saw is not a bad idea, but cutting 5" discs, even on a drill press, can be a pain to do. An added bonus of using the band saw is that I can cut the discs a little over size and true them up once they are mounted by putting a piece of sandpaper on the table and spinning the drum up with the motor.

The lathe is also an excellent idea, but I don't have one. I had a hard enough time convincing the family that I "needed" a band saw. :D

Yeah, I figured that the open-ended sanders were probably all cast and cross-braced to keep them ridgid. There's no way I can do that easily with wood. I'm tempted to expand my plans to make a longer drum, but at the moment I don't have a need for anything larger than 22-24"

5" disks on a drill press have to be done at a slow speed. Remember that as your cutter size increases so does the feet per minute of the teeth. I don't want to preach saftey, we all do stupid things, but your board should be clamped to the table. I've learned this too many times and have the scars to prove it and once some broken ribs. Make a drill press table with a fence on the back, like the ones Rockler Hardware sells. The back fence will help steady your piece of wood. Rip a piece of plywood 6" wide, butt it up against the fence, clamp it down and drill away.

I knew it would come to me eventually, something like this. Take a look at the table and it's adjustment, simple eh. http://www.preac.com/thickness_sander.htm

Understood. I have a home-made drill press table with fence based on one that I saw in Rockler. I also found a good design for one on page 106 of, "Workshop Solutions. 60+ Projects, Tips, and Tricks." It's from the editors of Wood Magazine and is some kind of end-of-year publication.

For the same amount of effort, just use a circle-cutting jig on a band saw.

I saw a few tilting table designs earlier in the thread. I would rather have a moving head. It's harder and more fun to design. :)

Now, the next question is, how can I lock the head in place? I don't want to put a screw against the threads of the lifting mechanism. I would like to be able to lock both sides with only one control. Maybe something that clamps against guide posts when I turn a knob? Hmmmm...

Clamping against the guide posts is the way to go but with one screw, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Got it, a flat bar with v-grooves cut near the ends that match up with the guide posts. A hole in the middle for a knob with a thread on it. A threaded block on the opposite side for it to engage. Tighten the knob against the bar, the bar pushes against the posts.

I've been looking at the designs of the belt sanders at Grizzley. You can download the parts manuals and they are pretty informative.

Phil take a look at the following link and you will see several different type belt joints that are as smooth as any spiral system you can come up with. I use this kind of tool nearly every day and I use this company's products every day. The good thing about them, if you are a manufacturer, not matter how big or small you are, they will custom make for you without the large setup charges that most companies use.

I just need help design an expanding drum that is not pneumatic. To do what I want to do it has to be rigid.

Mike
http://www.klingspor.com/abrasivebeltjoints.htm



turmite,

The one bad thing about pre glued sleeves is that the ridges left behind on the board where the sleeves are butted up against each other. That's why they came up with the wrapped drum to eliminate that problem. Pre glued sleeves are wrapped anyway.

Phil

the one I have been thinking about is only about 10" wide and is designed from the start as an abrasive jointer. I use lots of highly figured wood and moe than once I have had a piece destroyed because of tearout on a jointer or planer. I now see the need for either two machines or a combo machine. One for getting the first surface level and the second for thickness sanding.


Mike, have you tried using your router as a jointer to flatten your boards. Use a large diameter bit and climb cut and you shouldn't get any tearout.

We have a 36" widebelt sander at work, and if you want to use a sander as a planer/jointer, you're going to need to use a very rough belt (36 grit), and unless you want to take very light passes and/ or go really slow, you'll need some serious HP to run it.

During the night my overactive imagination came up with a workable solution to lock the head in place: The head will have two guide rails on each end for support and guidance. There will be a screw on each end for movement. I will use a block of delrin as the nut, but with one difference -- One side will be split. I can run a bolt with a handle through the split portion with a nut on the other side. More tension on the bolt will tighten up the nut around the movement screw, locking the head.

Image attached:

How about something like the portable planers use. Use 4 acme screws, 1 at each corner with a chain or belt linking them together.Then you'll probably need 2 linear shafts on each side to ride up and down on. The acme screws shouldn't be able to be backdriven, so there would be no need to lock it place.Although this may be more complicated, I believe you need a relatively strong setup.

Gerry,

Good thought! I was actually looking at a Ridgid planer at Hell Despot yesterday for inspiration. They use two linear bearings (solid rod with a bronze bushing) on each end of the head. They then have a single screw between the two linear bearings on each side. The whole things forms a shallow triangle (bearing-screw-bearing).

Using a single screw on each corner and making the head a little bit deeper is a good idea. I think the DeWalt planer is designed that way. As you say, they may not need locking up at all.

I see that McMaster Carr carries sprockets that can be mounted with set screws. That would probably work if I drill an indentation into the shaft of the Acme screw. I think a 1-inch diameter Acme screw would probably be a good fit for this machine.

Gary that is what I have to do now, but the time involved in shimming the board on the table and trying to guess the correct position for machining, is just too long. While I want to move into building a few guitars most of my materials are no wider than 7" so the hp needed would not be nearly as great as for one with a 20" head. I may simply be having a pipe dream but it sure did sound like a good fix for me. I have also though of building one of those rotarty planers but do it with the head under the table to achieve the jointer feature. Big round disc with lots of indexable inserts in it. The drum and paper sure sounds easier to do.

Mike

When I tried a feeble attempt at a rotary sander to flatten board glue ups (Post #7), I really wished I had devised some kind of feed system to consistently feed the board through the sander. If I paused at all, I really got some bad sniping or divots. I guess some of this was from flex, but it seemed that abrasive removal is really prone to this.

I recently had to make some rather large (5 foot) cutting boards for a counter top, and used a simple carrier to hold a router over the top of the boards (which were very rough as there were so many slats, and hard, because they were maple). Using a large flat bit and just moving it back and forth, I was amazed at the results. I guess it is really a manual CNC. If you are using figurative woods, I would think that a router bit would give you a very smooth finish without much to build.

Steve