I'm sure most of us with Bridgeports and other machines (routers, welders, foundries, plasma cutters, etc.) haven't bothered to call our insurance agent and "just let them know" that we have these new pieces of equipment in our garages.

But... has anyone had any experiences where your homeowners insurance had to cover a claim due to home shop machinery? Or more interestingly, has anyone had their premiums raised because of having such machinery?

No, I didn't just cut my finger off. I'm just curious. =)

When I insured my home, I specifically requested coverage for my personal belongings in the garage. All they wanted to know was a dollar amount and they added it to the premium - it wasn't too bad. I think it is more the value of the property that they are concerned with more than it's utility. But, when you file a claim, they will want evidence that it was in your possesion - so take pics and document it's value. I only paid a total of about $2400 for my BP but with my time, it would likely cost about $6K to replace with an equivalent machine so that's the value that is on my list - not the purchase price. They depreciate things if/when they pay a claim.....I disagree with this as my BP is almost 50 years old so in their books it is probably worthless.

I would reccomend that you review the contents of your garage and make a list (and photograph) all of your belongings, then come up with replacement costs and compare this to your policy and talk to your agent about your concerns. They might even offer to come out and take a look with you. If your policy only covers $50K in personal property and you have $120K in your garage, ask for an addition to your policy - they will be more than happy to add it for you.

Adding an alarm system to your garage/shop and house will lower your premium, so make sure to ask about that. You can get a really simple-to-install, wireless alarm system from http://www.x10.com/security/wireless_systems.html - this is what I bought for my shop last month - it's an awesome little system and you get a lot of stuff for $150.00.

Also - I have not only been burgalarized, but just this year I had lightning strike my storage shed (not the garage, thank god), catching it on fire and destroying nearly everything in it (Engines, motocross tires, car parts, yard equipment, X-mas stuff). Review your policy and ask questions now, before the fact, so you know what's what.

Sorry for the rant.

Scott

Thanks mxtras! That answers my questions about coverage and how the insurance industry handles it. My BP is from the late 70's so it would be in the same boat with depreciation. If they don't go for replacement value, you can argue it's an antique, collector's item. =)

My reason for posting in the safety forum was to see if safety of these machine is on the insurance companies' radar. I just recently started paying a lot more than average for my home insurance because of my dog. So I was just wondering if insurance companies are as sensitive about big milling machines and hobby foundries that can do a lot more damage than a dog! =)

I recently raised the declared value of my garage and its contents to 80K and it only cost a few dollars a year....less than 50.00 if remember right, and I totally agree with what someone else said aboout taking pictures. Better yet burn a bunch of pictures to a cd and store them at someone elses house, or in a safe!

Yeah - I see your point. After re-reading your original post I see that I missed your point.

I don't think there is enough history or problems with home machine shops to be on their radar right now as you said. The dog - that's a different story - it's in the media all the time and they are a liability to the insurance companies. You have Akitas, right? I grew up around a pair of registered, full-blooded Akitas and I never once had an issue other than when they would buck me off their back when I would ride them!!

I now have a Pit Bull living in my house.... It's my fiance's daughter's and it is the most loving, obedient (sp?) dog, but it has a reputation, too as you know. I think it is more the owner than the dog, but not if you look at the facts, I guess. Look at German Shepards, Rotties and Chows - they like flesh when threatened, too.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/09/15/deadly.dogs.ap/

Back to the topic - As far as the insurance company - mine didn't blink an eye at the equipment and they weren't concerned with the list of machines and equipment, nor did they care what I was doing with it all. They probably didn't know what it all was anyway. I insured personal property for a dollar amount, like I said. To them, a Bridgeport is a non-combustible item, I guess. I didn't have a plasma cutter - that may raise eyebrows, you know? "Plasma" and "Cutter"....I can hear it now - "What kinda plasma are you cutting with this thing, anyway?"

I would insure your stuff, though. And keep your dog.

Scott

Excellent point, Trevor - I have all of my important stuff in a fire safe in my office.

I copied the contents of my wallet and put it in there along with birth certs, SS card, passport, vehicle titles, recent bank statements and pay stubs, insurance papers as well as spare sets of keys to everything and back-up CDs from the computer.

I would urge everyone to get a fire safe and do the same.

I was at work about a month ago and I got a call from a neighbor that the fire department was at my house. I rushed there to find my shed had been struck by lightning and had been gutted. It could have just as easily been my garage or my house that got struck. Long story.

Get a fire safe. Update your insurance. Keep track of your stuff and stay up to date on your coverage.

Scott

... Better yet burn a bunch of pictures to a cd and store them at someone elses house, or in a safe!

Or if that fails, you can download your pictures that you posted at CNCZone! It's funny that so many of us have at least a partial record of what's in our garage, safely stored on the internet.

But to be safe, I scan everything and put it on an external hard disk, so I can store it off-site.

You have Akitas, right? I grew up around a pair of registered, full-blooded Akitas and I never once had an issue other than when they would buck me off their back when I would ride them!!


Hehe. Yeah, ours is a pretty gentle giant, but most insurance companies have them on the black list. My company dropped me (just having the dog was enough for them) and now I'm paying an extra $1000 a year!

I think it is more the owner than the dog, but not if you look at the facts, I guess...

That was a good article you posted; I agree that it's primarily a people problem, not a dog problem. Dogs can't say "ouch! stop poking me, I've gut an injury there!" or "just leave me alone already." Dogs are not people and it's the owners who don't know the difference that get into trouble. We only hear about the big dogs, of course. Can you imagine getting mauled by a chihuahua? It'd take hours!



Back to the topic -

No, we're still on the safety topic... hehe.. dog safety!

As far as the insurance company - mine didn't blink an eye at the equipment and they weren't concerned with the list of machines and equipment, nor did they care what I was doing with it all. They probably didn't know what it all was anyway. I insured personal property for a dollar amount, like I said. To them, a Bridgeport is a non-combustible item, I guess. I didn't have a plasma cutter - that may raise eyebrows, you know? "Plasma" and "Cutter"....I can hear it now - "What kinda plasma are you cutting with this thing, anyway?"

I would insure your stuff, though. And keep your dog.

Scott

Genuinly good advice, and I plan to follow it.

Although your homeowners policy may not care (replacement value only). Check with them about your liability or umbrella policy.

A lot of insurance co. will not pay if use it for making money, only if it for hobby. You might be wise to verify this if you sell anything you make....

A lot of insurance co. will not pay if use it for making money, only if it for hobby. You might be wise to verify this if you sell anything you make....

It gets a lot worse than that unfortunately, there is something that everyone should be aware of;

Not long ago a business associate tried to add coverage for some basic home office equipment - not even machining stuff mind you. Just a copier, computers, laser printer, flatbed scanner, and one of those little Roland Pixza touch-probe scanners.
Unfortunately, this set off a chain of events unlike any I had ever seen or heard of until I tried to add coverage myself a month later for my home and had the same thing happen to me.

They directly stated that possession of a copier, scanner, etc. was "business equipment" no matter what he was using them for, and therefore his home policy was no longer valid and that he needed a drastically more expensive commercial policy for his home. He tried challenging this and the upshot was he was accused of fraud, ALL his policies including auto were cancelled immediately, and they tried billing retroactively to the beginning of his home policy for the business rate, and threatened him with insurance fraud charges if he didn't comply.
God knows what they would have thought of actual "commercial" equipment like a CNC mill.

I tried adding a small amount of additional coverage to my home policy for guns and antiques a month or so later, and got much the same thing. I wasn't even trying to cover anything close to business equipment. They asked some underwriting questions, including whether or not I had any tools or a workbench on the property. Yes, you guessed it. The big sticking point that got my policy cancelled was ownership of a propane torch in my own home. That was it. I was classed as too high a risk to insure the home at all, and while they were at it reclassified my auto policy to high risk, almost tripling it overnight. Apparently a lifetime clean driving record and a propane torch in my house cost more to get car insurance for than multiple-DUI drivers with no tools in their house at all. Needless to say I changed companies instantly and didn't ever mention tool ownership again.

In short, they made it very apparent that if you claim anything specific like tools or business equipment you risk being dropped like a hot rock, but if you don't claim them they will use it as a reason not to pay on any claims that may happen.
The insurance companies version of "don't ask, don't tell" that leaves the homeowner screwed no matter what.

<snip>
That was a good article you posted; I agree that it's primarily a people problem, not a dog problem. Dogs can't say "ouch! stop poking me, I've gut an injury there!" or "just leave me alone already." Dogs are not people and it's the owners who don't know the difference that get into trouble. We only hear about the big dogs, of course. Can you imagine getting mauled by a chihuahua? It'd take hours!
<snip>

OK, this is going to be a really stupid first post, but, from everything I have heard, a Chihuahua bite is one of the worse you can get, because of the structure of their teeth... Apparently, their teeth are designed for shredding flesh and not for holding on, like a lot of bigger dogs teeth are.
From what I have heard, a Chihuahua bite take forever to heal because of this...

BTW, nice forum!

When I inherited my dads workshop tools I called my insurance guy. He came to the house with a couple of tool catalogs and we went through and appraised everything at *replacement* value, not accounting for the fact that some of this stuff is 50 years old and been 'rode hard and put away wet'.
So if my shed burns to the ground I'll come in to about 15k worth of tools (mostly wood and hand) that is costing me about 65 a year ... hmmmmmmmm.

robotic regards,

Tom
= = = = =
"All Roads May Lead to Rome. All Roams Do Not Lead to Roads."
- - Norm Balleine

Insurance companies are funny birds. One will cover tools, another won't. My SO ran into business insurance problems when she wanted to put a barber chair in her spare room. Immediately here Ins co dropped her saying that they didnt cover businesses in a mobile home and that you COULDNT insure anything in a mobile home. She went round and round with several call and arguments and finally called it quits.

Insurance companies are getting tighter and tighter on restrictions. I had my own insurance canceled because they said my ROOF was 15 years old. I had to spend 4,500.00 on a new roof when the old one was perfectly fine.

Case and point, when I moved here to N ark. my car insurance doubled just because of the town I moved to. I was paying 353 a year for 2 vehicles. Now I pay close to 800. My deductible was 250, now its 1000. My record is spotless, no accidents and no tickets and still I pay more than some states HI-Risk.

Its almost better NOT to insure your tools (unless there is something that just cannot be replaced).

Lastly, health insurance. If you have a torch, welder, or are a woodworker, be prepared for exclusions. Wood dust is very dangerous as are welding gases.

Its funny when I worked on radiators breathing solder fumes and muriatic acid fumes that no one batted an eyelash back then.

*Stepping off soapbox*

I had a fire in my shop, caused by my wood stove in 2003, Christmas Eve to be exact. I had complete coverage i.e. go to the store and buy it new or 75% cash. Mind you I did have to provide proof which meant digging through ashes and soot for days - believe me every drill, bolt or sawblade is costly to replace so I found them all, even if I had to sift and use magnets.
As far as large items (bridgeport) I did not have much then. Now I have a '57 Bridgeport w' Heidenhain DRO's, Tig & Mig etc, plus the wood CNC. Heating is now infloor, boiler is 100' away.
I have increased my coverage and they didn't care to come out.
Now I periodically take a tour with my video camera, drawer by drawer in my tool boxes and through every single item in my shop.
Wonder how they would value my cnc?

Excellent point, Trevor - I have all of my important stuff in a fire safe in my office.

I copied the contents of my wallet and put it in there along with birth certs, SS card, passport, vehicle titles, recent bank statements and pay stubs, insurance papers as well as spare sets of keys to everything and back-up CDs from the computer. I would urge everyone to get a fire safe and do the same.

you should know that a fire safe is only a protection for paper related items,
not to exceed a certain internal temperature, for a certain limited amount of
time. Also know that computer media melts at much lower temperature than
the char point of paper. so, you would be well advised to get a media grade
insulated container to place your computer media in, then inside the fire safe
along side your papers. :)
Ron