Is anyone manufacturing doors on a CNC router? If so, what are you using?...type of router, software, etc.

We use a Busellato and the control editing software it came with. The machine uses a 90 deg router head attachment to machine the back edge of the door. We mainly use it to machine out for SOS hinges.

Are you making all the components separately and assembling them? glue/dowel type thing? stiles, rails, panels, etc? hardwood? MDF?

No we buy solid door and do the maching of hinges, locksets etc..
I just realized somthing, you're talking about cabinet doors not door, doors. In that case I use Cabinet Vision.

MasterCam has a nice feature that will machine solid MDF.

No, I'm talking about door doors...entry doors and such. I saw (and so did my boss) a few CNC routers at the show yesterday that were machining separate components and assembling...the boss got that crazy look in his eye...wanted to see what I may or may not be up against next.

Oh, most point-to-point machines can do what you want to do. What machine are you running?

It's a Motion Master...what this thing needs is a 90 degree attachment (for starters anyway).

That's what we use, the ONLY probem is the bit only turns about 6,000 RPM. They have newer ones that I believe will turn in the 10,000's but not for long periods. The head will set you back about $4,000 +/-.

That's what Mike said (DMI in Colorado - you know him?).

Mike swift ?

You know, all these years...I don't know his last name - works with Patrick (don't know his last name either). He was the guy that came out and trained me on the first one of these things I used.

The Mike I know works for Delmac.

Different guys...

Who do you talk with when you have problems/questions about the machine? Did yours come with a Columbo or HSD spindle? I've got a Columbo - was told I'd have to change that to HSD on top of everything else...

I have programed and cut bath Tub molds and sink molds in MDF using the 5 axis Motion Master. I would say it worked preaty good.
I used the standerd Mastercam Mill at the time.
Right after that we came out with the Router software.

Jen did you go to the MC booth and check it out?
Well I am out of here in about 15 min to go out with the Mastercam crew and the show to the booth tommorow..

Jennifer

The other thing about aggregate heads is that they soak-up power, so a 7.5HP spindle with a 90 degree aggregate is really struggling (our Biesse with HSDs does, anyway). Nicest aggy heads I've seen to date were made by Benz (http://www.benz-international.com/englisch/index1.html) in Germany. I believe that Multicam sell them in the USA (they certainly do here in the UK). Oh, yes, you may need to go to a spiral roughing tool to get the maximum plunge speed on your machine.

Scrit

cadcam - I did make it to the MasterCAM booth, but didn't hang out and talk with anyone...what'd you think of the show?

Scrit - thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

I have to admit that I'd probably write a parametric program in G-code, after all, how many door shapes can there be? This may be a bit cruder, but if you're in for the long haul....

I suppose this makes me a sort of CNC Neanderthal ;)

experience with higl-level door- and window-production on cnc-machines:

Hello,

our company (COBUS ConCept in germany) develops software
for the woodworking industry since 1985.
Since some years our main development is concerning door-
and window-production.
We have lots of installations on various machines, like
HOMAG, IMA, MAKA, WEEKE, BUSELLATO, BIESSE, SCM, CMS ...

Bye.
Ottmar Petry

1

I do superscale entries ( and carved cabinet doors as well ) with a cnc router. If the competition gets intmidating, call me, half of my work is " ghostwriting" for friendly competitors. I use a 3-d digitizing arm to digitize originals into Rhino and VM4.o for cam software. Any heavy cnc router will work. The cheap ones will beat themselves apart with the constant z-axis movement. Creating an original design inside Rhino is also very effective, but you will learn do this best if you are already a carving designer with a little cad background..

Good luck,
Phill Pittman
www.masterwerkes.com
digicarve@verizon.net

Jennifer. I missed this post the other day. Are you running the Fagor controller, or one of the AB 9200 or 8400? I would give Mike or Patrick a call to make sure your control has the ability to ad another spindle (probably does). One of our MM machines has 1 moving z plate with 4 slides on it, and 3 router motors (perske) and the last slide had a fixture for putting on air power tools. This last area allowed us to put on addtional splindle in what ever orientation we wanted.
Regarding the columbo did you get the new one with the tool changer? We had some problems with our tool changin columbo, which turned out the be having the wrong pull studs on the machine, and it would not always register having the tool in the holder. The HSD on the other machine never had a problem besides the cooling fan going out every so often. As far as software goes for doors. I would imagine any program that has the ability to use shaped bits would work well. Any of the leading cad-cam prgrams can do what you want, but a wood working program may limit you in someways. Not sure on that, so please correct me if I am wrong. Learning curve would probably be important if you want to get up and running quickly. I use solidcam, and have had great luck with surfcam. Hope that helps.

Mike Grover and Patrick Bollar
They are now Diversified Machine Systems (DMS) in Gainesville, TX

hello, I am an operator of a cnc wood working machine in a door manufacturing plant. I have worked with this type of machine for ten years. The machine is a KVAL Edge machine. I work with the edge of the door, cutting different types of openings for hardward such as strikes, flushbolts, holders, closers, pivots, electric hinge preps, concealed vertical rods ( cvr's ) electric power transfers ( epts) and other types of preps. If you are looking for info on how the machine is programmed, I am sorry but I am not a programmer. The programs are already put into the machine, however I do have to modify the existing programs to fit different types of machining that is called for by the customer. The basic four types of cuts are t-strikes which can be modified to perform cuts for strikes and some types of pivots. Flushbolt programs can be modifed to cut holders, closers, magnectic switches and power transfeers. Cylinder cuts can be used for electric hinge preps, fire pins and side bores for locks. There is another type of cut that uses a different size bit. These are called deep mortise and are used for cuts that are more than 3 inches in depth. My machine only uses three axis ( X<Y<and Z ) Any info I can give you?

Jennifer. I have worked with a cnc machine in a door manufacturing plant for ten years. It is a KVAL Edge machine working with the edge of the door. any info that I can give you?

Tech,

Jennifer's original post is dated Aug 1, 2003!!!

(chair)

:)

Darn...the things we'll do (me included) when a women asks a question here....*smile*

I never checked the orginal date of Jennifer's post. I was told of it by another cnc operator who told me about this site. Oh well. By the way, I see alot of info about different types of cnc, but I did not see anything about KVAL type cnc's. Anybody out there who runs a Edge type cnc that has three axix? Like to hear or to find out that I am the only one.

I still make kitchen doors with Spindle Moulders. Although we do have a double end tennoner to mould the outside. :violin:

My day job is a finish carpenter. I make custom replacement windows, doors, cabinets, furniture, etc. I have allways used a spindle shaper to make doors and cabinets, as well as duplicating moulding. I first got interested in CNC thinking it would compliment my work, but since everything I do is single piece or maybe a single run of a couple hundred feet of something, I havent had the opportunity to use the CNC router for much yet. The learning curve is so long!

I am sure the big door makers automate alot, but I dont see using a conventional CNC router like what I have for door making.

I am working with the new Vectric Art 3D Carve and the VCarve software demo and I think that I will eventually be using one of the versions for carving entry door panels. I am really excited with those programs and think I've finally found something that will work for me, in the under ten thousand gazillion dollar range.

The Edge machine that I use does only one door at a time, and while we do more than a hundred doors in a shift, some operations are still one at a time. they do come in handy for some of the harder preps. The hardest ones are the ones where the customer hand draws what he wants on the door and some of the dimensions are hard to read. Or he really gives a vague type of drawing where some of us start to scratch our heads and try to figure out what they are really asking for. Not that the hardware manufacuturing personnel are any better. Some of those templates are really made for installing the hardware and don't really give you the dimensions for cutting the opening for the hardware. We have a database where the operators can bring up the templates for the hardware and I have to tell you it can be very frustrating trying to read some of them.

Hi Halfnutz,

We are currently working on VCarve Wizard version 3 that will include machining strategies for cutting with form tools such as Ogee, Roman, Roundovers and Custom edge shapes. This functionaly is especially useful for making Door and Cabinet panels.

The image below shows how an Ogee cutter can be used to machine the edge profile and a simple Roundover to carve interesting forms into the panel surface.

Version 3 also imports files from the VectorArt 3D Machinist and PhotoVCarve programs, so projects designed with these programs can be positioned and previewed along with the conventional 2D and vcarved toolpaths, so the complete design can be viewed and all toolpaths saved. This makes combining 3D elements with VCarved decoration quick and very easy to do.

Hope this is of interest.

Tony

http://www.vectric.com/vectric/images/cnczone/Panels.jpg

Hi Tony, Hope you dont mind a noob question. What equipment do I need to carve panels like the ones in your pics. (For gates and fencing as opposed to doors). Would I be right by saying cnc mill & VectorArt3D software? Or possibly a cnc router table & VectorArt3D software?

Hello Diarmaid,

Large Doors and Cabinets are often cut on Flat Bed CNC Routers, but you could use either a CNC Mill or Router to carve this type of work.

The VectorArt 3D Machining (http://www.vectorart3d.com) software is Free, but you have to pay for the 3D models that you wish to carve. To machine the 3D form you need to use Ball nosed (rounded) cutters

The general 2D machining toolpaths are calculated using the VCarve Wizard (http://www.vectric.com) software ($495) and requires conventional End mill (flat) and V-Bit cutters.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Tony

Those are really nice Tony, I love your software. I am still learning how to use the demo package and will soon buy the real thing.

As far as hardware diarmaid, I would recomend a gantry router because of the sizes you will be working with. From experiance I can also tell you that it needs to be a robust one with some power or you will be frustrated with the amount of time required to cut deep or intricate carvings. I had to put stronger motors on mine to get a little more speed out of it, and I'd still like to go faster. You dont realize what its like having your machine screaming away for two hours (or longer) untill you actually do it. Those routers are LOUD!

Initially I only envisage carving panels no larger than 12x12 inches which I can then build in. I can then look at expanding my capabilities to a larger machine later. I will want to be able to carve my own jpg or bmp designs, will I need a specific program to be able to carve these, or one to convert these from jpg to something, or/and one to generate G-Code for them?
Thanks for the advice.

Hi Diarmaid,

When you say "I will want to be able to carve my own jpg or bmp designs...", are you looking to convert these to carve 3D models? If the answer is yes then you need to be looking at software such as ArtCAM Pro or VS3D, that will allow you to build 3D relief models from your image files. This is a fairly difficult task, especially if trying to work from photographs, and be careful of anything that claims to automatically convert your photo's / pics / images to 3D because they very rarely work without considerable manual editing.

If you are looking to carve decorative designs with conventional end mills and v-cutters then you will need to vectorize your image files to create vector boundaries that can be used to drive the cutters along.

There is a Free program called InkScape that does a great job of vectorizing and this can be downloaded from,

Inkscape details > (http://vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=266#266)

I hope this helps,
Tony

Thanks Tony, That helps a lot. Most of my drawings will be line drawings.

From what I've seen from your info and link I'll need a program like Inkscape to convert my drawings (Raster to Vector if Im not mistaken....I know what vectors are but never heard the word 'raster' before) to vectors, then transfer that into a program like VCarve and then cut away. Sounds Simple! :D

I looked at ArtCam Pro aswell but I think by cutting the negative of my image from Inkscape it will end up almost the same. What d'you think?

I also looked at VectorArt3D. It looks excellent. I dont like the idea of paying $25 for the carving pic's though, I want to be able to carve my own pic's like those. Their VCarving Solution with +2000 images seems good but they say that they are not 3D models....hmm.
Thanks.

I've found a program called ArtCam that looks good but I cant find a price on they're site.....not a good start! I'll e-mail them and see what they say. Does anyone have any info about ArtCam Pro?
Thanks

Hi again,

ArtCAM Pro is a great 3D relief modelling and machining package, but it has a pretty high price tag - $7.5k + Training and Support costs.

Tony

Arrggg...was just about to go look at it again....but at 7.5k....emmm...nope!

...you didn't by any chance mean '.75'k...as in $750....worth asking.... :D

Afraid not - it's $7,500 + $1,200 annual maintenance + a least a weeks training expenses. So gets up to around $10k. But it really is the best at what it does, so long as you have the type of work that can make return on this level of investment!

I think the VS3D package is around $2,500 but not 100% sure.

Tony

Good looking doors Tony. I can hardly wait for VCarve 3 to be released.

Jason

Heres the type of doors i make,Tony. I'm eventually gouing to try carving the panels for them with your software, there just isnt enough time in the day.

Hi Halfnutz,

The solid wood doors look perfect for adding carved decoration.

A new feature coming in VCarve Wizard 3 that I'm sure will be useful to you for adding unique designs to your doors. Is the ability to quickly and easily carve Random 3D Textures using Ball nose and V-Bit cutters.

Most 3D textures that are modelled in CAD systems have to be machined using Raster based cutting strategies with small cutters, that then take an age to machine. The new technique in VCarve 3.0 cuts great textures much quicker and with unique random patterns.

Here are some test pieces carved using the new functionality on a CNC Router running Mach3.

http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/1.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/10.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/13.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/15.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/2.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/3.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/9.jpg

I hope this might be of interest,

Tony

Awesome! The time required to do 3D carving really surprised me. I didn't realize how long it took untill I got the VCarve 3D Machinist software. V carveing is nice because you can create the effect of reliefe carving with minimal machining time. I would like to learn more about how the designs are created. I imagine you somehow use line width to determine cut depth? Is this described somewhere in the documentation?

It's really very simple and interface has options for,

Cutter geometry / Diameter / Angle
Maximum cut depth
Maximum cut length
Stepover
Angle
Each option also has a randomness range slider that is used to control the random spacing etc. to create unique results. The paramters for any specific texture can also be saved and re-used at any time.

Very quick and easy to use and the 3D Preview shows the exact results the toolpath will produce. The Textured region can also be limited inside a selected boundary.

When the software is released there will be both a video tutorial and associated documentation.

http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/Westley.jpg http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/Vectric1Way.jpg
http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/BallNose1Way.jpg http://www.vectric.com/images/temp/VBit1Way.jpg
Carved with Ball nose Carved with a V-Bit

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11996

Jennifer. I missed this post the other day. Are you running the Fagor controller, or one of the AB 9200 or 8400? I would give Mike or Patrick a call to make sure your control has the ability to ad another spindle (probably does).
Regarding the columbo did you get the new one with the tool changer? We had some problems with our tool changin columbo, which turned out the be having the wrong pull studs on the machine, and it would not always register having the tool in the holder. The HSD on the other machine never had a problem besides the cooling fan going out every so often.

I'm running the Fagor controller.
Do you have a phone number for Mike or Patrick?
I haven't heard about anyone else having that problem with the Columbo and what made me sign on this morning was to do a search for just that - and I was looking for replacement tool holders...my operator wasn't watching when the tool did a mad pass at the tool stands and took out a couple...*sigh*
Was there a relatively simple fix with your Columbo?

Thanks.
Jen

We use a Tekcel 8x4 Auto tool change with vacum hold down, profilelab 3d and Door wizard to auto generate door toolpaths from stored patterns, works very well, we manufacture for vinyl wrapping in australia

hi we use a programs made by alphacam called advanced router, but it has a sister program called alphadoor, this program will plan all aspects of your doors, we also use a 90 degree cutter call the universal 'K' to put locks and fire strip into the doors. i think the website for information is www.planit.com

Jen, have you contacted Precision Drive Systems/Carolina Electric about the spindle? The sell and service Colombo spindles. 704-922-5261.

We have an SCM record originally bought for lock and hinge cutouts but also use it to manufacture components. Its cust every shaped head we use and also has been used for boring stiles for M&T and cutting the tennon on the rails drop me an email if u want details.