overall view; you can see the massive headstock support; over 1 1/2" thick
The side of the bed are 3/4" the bottom plate is 1" 5 3/8" SHCS hold the sides to the bottom plate; 25mm SRV THK's on the 3/4" for Z and 1 W and 1 V plus the RSR15W guide the tailstock
20mm SR with W blocks for X
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/length.JPG
from the rear
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/tail.JPG
Close up of the sideslide
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/sideslide.JPG
close up of the ballscrew supports
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/ballscrew2.JPG
As usuall my project is all made from offcuts which would have been scrapped one day; ebay provided the slides/ballscrews

The target is 0.0001 per step; the steppers will be conected by XL timing belts; with reductions of Z axis 3.75-1 plus 2-1; the X will be 3-1 plus 2-1
The Z ballscrew is 4mm pitch the X is 3mm pitch

A 4" 6 jaw will handle holding; FAG 45mmID 75mmOD taper rollers will support the spindle which as before will be 4140 prehard
2 toolposts as per my other design
The long sideslide is a result of experiance with the old design; max control of the tailstock is a must with what I drill

enjoy the photos

Nice looking work - I like it. You have made one of these before? Have pics of it?

Keep us updated on the progress - I am interested to see the chuck, headstock and so-on.

Scott

This is the other machine
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8928

A close up of the crossslide ballscrew; 2 nuts on a common carrier tocontrol backlash; the screw is 10mm ball pitch and 3mm actual pitch
with 200 steps + 2-1 reduction then 3-1 reduction afterthat; the advance per step will be 0.0001"

http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/crossball.JPG

Nice job,Using the THK rails is the way to go.

looking good. with all those linear bearing surfaces, I'm guessing they are not very swarf tolerant - what do you do, wipers? bellows, to be determined?

Wow that is looking good, a few things:
It appears the x-axis travel is kind of low? not much there is there?

also, on the z-axis, you have a third rail on the side, what is the purpose of that one?

Watch out on the back tool post, I dont know how those SR rails work and all, but your going to have force pulling that upwards while using the back tool post.

Have you considered doing a slant bed? well basicly angling the lathe so the chips fall into a tray or something other than the ways. What about making a tool turret from those designs floating around?

Lookin good, Im hoping to soon be following your footsteps but instead, to make a mill.

Jon

What are you going to use for a spindle?

I have been looking online and that is the one thing I can't figure out. Everything I can find that includes the headstock is over $5k.

THere will be full covers; steel or brass shim 0.025 bent and telescoping
The SR is good in 2 directions; up and down; so parting off is not an issue; plus the things I part off are max 1/4" diameter and brass; max diameter of what I make is 5/8" and these are few and far apart; most are 3-0.5mm;please keep in mind what my machines are for is very specilized; they are not general use
The spindle will be like the other lathe; just bigger with more cooling; my lathe will run 45-60degrees C almost all the time

Fettig; my mill is 50% done also; I'm working on both at the same time; 21" 14" 9" 650ox/in steppers; the lathe has 300 oz/in steppers

also, on the z-axis, you have a third rail on the side, what is the purpose of that one?


Jon


I drill 0.009" holes all the time (and other sizes)
I'm moving down to 0.005 holes soon and to control the accuracy of centering the drill every time; the 3rd rail is my solution; it increases the active length of the rail support and stops any up or sideways movement; as i gave $20 for 2 with 1 block on each it's a good return on my invesment

stevie looking good buddy,i know it will work great!

Thanks Catch; hehehe; me and Catch work for the same boss (different plants)

New update
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/reduction.JPG
side view of the cross slide stepper reduction drive; the stepper 16T pully still needs boring out to 3/8" to fit the stepper motor
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/reduction1.JPG
top view; common shaft for the 2 pulleys is below the crossslide ballscrew pulley
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/reduction2.JPG
general view; that pilot diameter on the NEMA34 is so close it still has no screws; yet it's holding in just fine
Tomorrow i order 2 140XL37 belts

It's alive

I have both steppers now wired; and moving X axis; Z still needs connecting to the ball nut; but the ball screw is rotating

edit edit

The Z is now moving too; popped back to work and made the part needed; just had to see it move today
Catch stopped by and saw it tonight; I'm happy with both axis movement; I'll post new pics tomorrow

http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/zreduction.JPG
The 120XL37 belt comes out of the stepper motor mount 16 to 32 which is a 2-1 reduction; 300 oz/in becomes 600; then it goes to a 190XL37 pulleys are 16-60 or 3.75-1 reduction so over 2200oz/in
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/xreduction.JPG
Here the stepper is again 16-32 then 16-48 2 x 140XL37; plus here the tension is taken care of by idlers
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/zballnut.JPG
The parts made last night; Z axis ball nut cradle and saddle mount
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/zreduction1.JPG
View of the Z axis stepper reduction and mountings
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/length1.JPG
Overall view of the "back" of the lathe

What kinds of speeds are you getting out of that machine? it sounds like it wouldnt be going too fast at that reduction you have going on there.

Jon

I have the Zeta4's set for 1000 steps; yes the lathe is not as fast in rapids as the old one; but me and Catch ran the same program in both computers and this machine was 7 sec faster overall
I think the rapids are 400mm/m; but when you think most of my products the distance traveled in rapid is under 30mm then it's not bad; plus I could move the microstepping to 400 or 1/2 step

edit edit
Just re-ch'ked
The same program run on both machines; the new one is 1.25sec faster to complete all the moves
I'm sure it's the higher values in Start and the Acceleration; while my overall rapids are slower; the machine has so much more power the steppers will not drop steps
The old one is almost twice as fast in Z rapid; X is faster; but only by about 100mm/min
I think I will leave it on 1000; and use the better resolution to make better parts at about the same speed; I did not envision this machine as being faster; but with much more accurate

moved the acc to 7000 and the start to 4500; the max speed is now 14500 or 1/2 the 29000 avail
The axis are hitting 460mm/min in 1.7 secs with no hint of dropping steps

edit edit
I was dropping the odd step; this showed up after 8-9 runs of the same program with a 0.0001 dial for the return to start position (0.0003 after so many runs)
I have now switched to my S6 drives with a 4.14amp setting for power; 50% power 30sec after last move; there is a slight resonace on the X axis at a couple of spots in the program and I might try to tune this out later; I'm on the normal waveform maybe one of the other 5 types might cure this; the Zeta 4 drives just got too hot running flat out to keep enough power for these Japan Servo's
It is better now; the acc and start speed I'm still playing with; these 2 can influence the program time much more than Max speed; if you think about the program; just how much time do you stay in rapid anyways
I'm still running 1000 microsteps and all in all I'm happy with the motion control for now; so off on the spindle housing and spindle next

Just to give a scale for you all; thats a 4" diameter 6 jaw
Basic design is the same as my smaller lathe; however I'll be making sure localized heating is better controled; a pump will recirc oil through the head bearings and then through a small car transmision cooler that will be fan assisted
The holes around the bearing diameter will help cooling too; the same pattern is on the rear brg diameter too

http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/spindlemount.JPG

That is some nice work Steve. i have been watching your progress. Sorry I couldn't get over there last weekend.. Looks like this one is a washout too.. Where are you working now? (PM me if you don't wanna tell the whole world)
I have got to say I'm sooooo jealous of your homebrew CNC equipment.. Are you going to build a wire EDM after you finish with the lathe and mill? SUrely you won't stop..It seems you've been bitten by the DIY CNC bug pretty hard.... :)

That is looking quite nice, is the headstock supported well? for a bit there I thought you were lacking in x-axis travel, but it looks like you have a half decent amount.

How do you plan on driving the tailstock? does it attach to the x-axis in some way or another?

Are all the screws you have on there ground? What are the sizes of them?


Jon

Where are you working now? (PM me if you don't wanna tell the whole world)
Hi Paul
I manage KGS Machine; a new division of Toolrite Engineering

That is looking quite nice, is the headstock supported well? for a bit there I thought you were lacking in x-axis travel, but it looks like you have a half decent amount.

How do you plan on driving the tailstock? does it attach to the x-axis in some way or another?

Are all the screws you have on there ground? What are the sizes of them?


Jon

The head sits on a piece of 4140 that extends from the 3/4" ground rail supports; it is 1 1/2" thick and 4 1/4" wide and over 13" long; 7off 3/8" high tensile grade 8 cap heads hold it to the support; one is 6" long and goes through everything (support/spacer/head) the other 6; 3 hold the spacer to the support; 3 hold the head to the spacer
The head is 2 parts; split midway (hence the 4 bolts you see) the spacer is split the other way and bolts with 2 3/8" caps also visible
The head support is preloaded against vibration with a 1/2" bolt jacking it away from the main base; the tension is trying to rip out the 3/8" cap heads that secure the rail supports to the main base
It's all very sturdy

I could attach the tail to the saddle; in fact most likely will to make the tail post bore for the spindle (Morse #2) I'll use the finished headstock spindle to make my tail stock dead on center high and inline with the spindle axis (just like the first machine)

The lead of the screws is .125 Xaxis; 4mm Zaxis
I got them from eBay and the .125 was listed as a 3mm; but it was not; the X is true antibacklash due to the added 2nd nut; the Z is very good; I can not find any backlash at all; I think it is rolled and then ground!!
The 2 axis are preloaded on the THK sliders by adding tension in the spacing of the rails
My maximum travel on my first lathe is 100mm in X; but I only ever use 29.2mm; so it did not make sense to go for some huge travel because of my set-up the bigger the item I make; the less I move X

Todays work on the spindle; left for the shop at 7am; it's a 14min drive
Got home 10.30am with the finished (to the point I needed) part

The stock in the old Dean-Smith and Grace 13" by 30" toolroom lathe
4.75" dia 9.5" long prehard 4140 stock
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/stock.JPG
After roughing the chuck end plus 0.100"
I then turned it around and roughed for the 55mm oil seal and 45mm bearings
I had this less than 30mins into the job; I was pushing the lathe and tool to the max for a manual machine (chk out the chips)
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/roughed.JPG
After that I rechucked on the small steps i always bore into the chuck jaws (about .1 deep)
Then I reduced the chuck end close to the thickness needed
After that I reduced the bearing and seal diameters to just plus 0.01"
And then removed the stock from the middle section between the bearing diameters (you can see the marker still there)
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/removemiddle.JPG
The I grooved for the threading tool to run out into; and reduced the last diameter for the pulley;
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/threaddia.JPG
After that re-chucked 2 times gripping on the section between the bear diameters and drilled 0.875 dia from both side for the hollow spindle needed for long stock (this of course removed my centers)
Next step; running in the chuck and 3 point steady; re-cut the 60drg centers needed for the grinding operation
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/bored.JPG
both ends of course
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/recentered.JPG
then turned it around re-chucked and roughed the bigest diameter and formed the step for the chuck pilot dia (plus 0.02")
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/chuckdia.JPG





Into the grinder
First the mchine needs to be setup for grinding the shaft parallel; I just touched both bearing diameters and ch'ked the table setting; 2 adjustments and it's cutting dead parallel
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/setting.JPG
After grinding the 2 45mm bearing diameters i then finished the 55mm for the oil seal and also finished the 100mm which matches the outside of the 6 jaw
a quick re-dress of the wheel and then i finished the section between the bearing diameters
And it's finished to the point I needed for today
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/ground.JPG

Can't beat old lathes! Looking great Stevie, keep it up :)

Thanks bud

Well todays other stuff did not go as planned; the weather did not make for a nice day to go to the fair
So back to the shop I went; made the pre-load nut and threaded the shaft to fit the nut; then finished the 1.625" diameter for the drive pulley
I made the 45mm diameters just 0.0001 undersize; too close; I'll polish them down a tad tomorrow before the workday starts
Once the correct distance is fixed for the rear oil seal ring; I'll make it and then all there is left is a few more things on the head casing and mill a keyway for the drive pulley

Well the smaller older lathe has no limit switches; I dont home the machine so I did not want to mess about with them; tried them once and they gave me more trouble than it seemed worthwhile; tonight i found out I need them on this machine
While moving the X axis to test the trueness of newspindle in the housing to the X axis in prep for machining the pilot diameter; I told the axis to go to -40mm; but I did not notice the - sign did not go in; as i was already at about 20mm in the axis and had only 10mm more positive to go; the ball screw ran out of travel; well not really; it just made itself more travel than I had built into the axis
It ripped 2 5mm capheads right out of the carrage; with no slowing of the stepper what so ever; these cap heads held the plate that carries both the reduction drive; stepper; ballscrew end bearing; so once the screws had been ripped out; the assembly simply moved away from me; I was of course dumbfounded; wondering just what happend??????
So I guess the reduction drives do a great job at increasing the avail power to cut metal; or in this case rip out metal threads

I learned a lesson tonight

I feel your pain man...., I walked the x axis right off our new lathe the day we got it, right in front of the boss.....ooops hehehe :D

Hard and soft limits are always a good thing.

actually I'm not that worried; there was not much damage; I already have it fixed; I was luckly by not having long enough screws; so it just ripped 4 threads out
I now have 25mm into the aluminum; I'd better not do it again

Ha ha ,A hose clamp for a for a grinder dog ,Great idea

yeap we use them everyday; grinding has small forces; small clamps do nicely and are cheap and ready to use anytime; plus the number of times the part get put in and then someone says Da** forgot the dog; easy with a gear clamp :D

Yes it's crude; but i need to cut the pilot diameter before the spindle can be finished; the 1/3HP can turn it on the 2 lowest speeds; fast enough to cut the spindle to finish it anyways; with no seals i can't run fast anyways; I'm using Lucas oil and a spot of grease in the tapered rollers for this operation
The final assembly of the oil seals etc; can be completed once the chuck is mounted
The lathe will have a 1HP motor

http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/newlatheruns.JPG
I need to make a temp toolpost next; but my Vacation is almost here
12 days in Disney to recharge my own batteries and refine this and the mill designs

Niiiice, CNC lathe, man. geez that thing is awesome. it's fascinating to think that when we all started out we hadn't the technology to this yet, let alone in our own homes. this craft is fantastic! Keep up the good work, Stevie, we all can't wait to see this thing finished...well, after returning from Disney of course. Can I ask, where did you pick up the 4" 6 jaw?

eBay $89

Drilled and counter bored the spindle this morning
I'm pretty sure this will be the last update untill I get back off vacation
I'll answer any questions tomorrow morning; but we leave tomorrow night
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/chuckmounted.JPG
Here is the rear details; the thin lock nut is not on the spindle but goes right behind the thicker one already on; just ahead of the nut is a polished collar for the oil seal to run on; it's counterbored to fit over the nut; both nuts are drilled 1/8 for the wrench you see; I made it for this project too
The oil seals are not installed yet; I still need to drill the oil gallery holes for the cooling system
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/wrench.JPG
Next is the testing; the chuck is 0.0007 out; not bad; the 6" long 5/16" center drill is running 0.0009; I'll of course fix the jaws with my custom toolpost grinder to run 0.000; the body run out I can live with
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/dialed.JPG

So back to the build
First off was to strip the head apart again
The oil cavity needed to be machined out
So first i created the O-ring groove for the outer seal of the oil cav; the oil cav is 4.500" dia and 1.400" deep both sides of course; no shortage of oil here; over the vacation a small adjustment of my plans took place; now the oil will be static and the head will be cooled with water (car antifreeze etc)
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/oilcav.JPG
The holes for the watercooling are just under the oil cav; 9 holes 7/32nd dia drilled down to 1/4" connector passages; there is one O-ring out to show the counterbore for the 7/23X11/32nd O-rings; small 1/4" dia by 1/4 long plugs will be pushed down the 1/4" passages to block between each connected pair; the water will flow in a zig zag pattern for max cooling; out through a small rad with forced air flow
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/water.JPG

Looks good, make sure to use no brass or copper connections anywhere on it, corosion may come into play.

What kind of speeds are you running and what kind of bearings are you using?

Jon

Hi Jon

The bearings are tapered roller FAG 45mm bore 75mm OD 20mm width
Top Speed is going to be about 4500rpm; the low will be 1500rpm; remember just brass and alum will be cut

why not brass or copper?? i have never had corrosion of those materials with Alum; the water lines will be 1/4" poly and the plugs are 1/16th NPT
The in and out fittings will be 1/4" NPT; **edit edit** correction 1/8" NPT

copper and aluminum react when you put them together with an electrolite(water will turn into one) or just with water in general and the aluminum will corode.
I don't remember the scientific terms and stuff of why they will, but it does and I have personally run a test. If you still choose to do it, make sure to run about a 10% antifreze solution to keep out all the nasty stuff(itll help protect against corosion too)

Jon

Ho I see; I'll be running 50% antifreeze anyways; same as a car

It's called galvanic action or galvanic corrosion:

http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/CDweb/g-html/g002.htm
http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/CDweb/g-html/g001.htm

Got the diverters installed ; the holes tapped 1/16th NPT and the 2 halves back together; next is buy some plugs tomorrow; tap the 1/8th NPT for the water in and out (1/4 is too big for my needs)
I have a pile of fitting for 1/8th in SS at work
The main bearing oil seals will be installed tomorrow and the final fitting of the spindle
The oil fill/level/drain are also now drilled and tapped same 1/16th NPT

Has heating of the headstock been an issue on the other lathe you made Stevie?

yes through a full day of running the head would hit 60dgr

Looks awesome.Sooooo shiney.....

You seem to be pounding this machine out quite quick, have you considered selling them, or the plans??? just a thought, I think you would have a few takers including myself. ;)

Cheers

Had to go load a truck at work this morning early so i decided to use the time well
Yesterday the water passages had the plugs installed and the spindle oil seals fitted; the spindle was re-installed and pre-loaded
Today the motor pulley had to be bored to 0.625"which matches 2 motors I have; one a 1/2HP which is shown below; the other is the 1HP which just might end up on this machine
in the pic you can see the 1/2HP 3450rpm motor at speed; the spindle is around 1800rpm; I'll run this all day to get the bearings loosened up (broken-in)
Yes you eagle eyed guys; there are 4 steps to the spindle pulley; 5 on the motor
The spindle pulley I made from a 4" piece of Alum this morning
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/halfhorse.JPG
Here are the push-in 1/4" water line connections for the water cooling; I don't need them today
http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/water2.JPG

The machine is running now; after 1 hour the head is already up to 44 dgr C
I wanted it to get up there and stay for a while
This will prove the seals on the oil cav are good; it will also bed the bearings and the head in general
I suspect once I move up to top speed the temp will rise to at least 55 dgr C
I run quite a lot of pre-load on the bearings; I need this much pre-load to maintain the spindle ridgidity for the tiny parts I make
I just backed off the pre-load slightly; this will reduce the temp the head is experiancing right now
If I can get it to maintain about 39-40C I will be about right for 1800rpm
Because the head is Alum the pre-load rises as the head expands more than the spindle

So after running since the post about it being 44dgr; well it just stayed there; at 1850rpm I think that is good
I bumped it up to 4850rpm and the head ran at 59dgr steady for 10mins; with no cooling I'm happy with these temps
The smaller lathe has a heatsink and fan to cool it; it is no where near as efficent as water will be; so all in all the spindle is done
I need to weld up a nice 48" bench next for it all to be mouted on; I'm already looking for a 15" or smaller LCD for the 600 MHz computer to hook up to that will be the controler
Water system/computer etc all will be housed inside the bench; hopefully leaving some storage too
Toolposts and tailstock are next to be tackled

Ok with the first 4 pulley diameter of the motor pulley I get 1340-4150rpm
The other possible 4 steps used by moving the motor into the machine are 1550-4850rpm with the steps pretty much equal in jumps from 1 step to the next
I'm very pleased with the speeds avail; if needed I can always have a jackshaft or 2nd motor (1750rpm) to extend the range
Maybe a 2 speed motor (who knows) but for now; it's fine

I just looked eBay over for small LCD's; I think the in-car versions are very keen for pricing; if you look carefully; there are many with VGA inputs for a good price; with sizes from 8"to 11.5"
For turbocnc i think these would be good
Mach 3 would need a bigger screen for sure

good!! :cheers:

Today I'll hop to Rado Shack and grab those micro switches
I've been avoiding the tail stock as it just might be an inclined turret type; I need 4 stations; one will be a micro feed/feel drilling fixture; for drills under 0.015"
Just wait till you see my plans for that!!

This axis is quite simple; the nut carrier hits the 2 limit switches 1mm before the axis crashes into the hard stops

http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/xlimit.JPG

The other I'm still wondering if it's better to move the switch or the ramp to hit the limit switch

with the edit button///

The Z is now done too; basically the same; 2 switches; one at each end; the ball nut vertical carrier hits the limits about 1.5mm before a hard end of travel
I tested both last night with pin 10 in Turbocnc (active low)

Next i can make a bench and the way covers

Hi Steve,
Been watching this thread from a far. Any progress on this?

Hi Stevie,

Nice work. Could you please show us a photo from the other direction showing the anti backlash mechanism.

Hi Mark

The cross slide is on now; kinda had to pic it; but it looks the same both sides

I have built the bench for it to sit on; i need to cut the 3/16" thick Alum for the top; there is a 3/4" ply top on now; but the Alum will look cooler
My 3/4hp motor will be here soon; might use it; not sure yet

Just to add

I have been working on my 4axis; which I need to finish this machine as i would like to see it
The 4 axis has undergone a complete transformation
The only parts left from the Deltadrill press will be the spindle housing and the quill with the hand feed; just about everything else is now gone

Travel in X is up 2"
Y travel just a tad more at 4.187; now has a 2-1 reduction for more power; new feed screw; universal (brand) 2 start high accuracy/ground 0.200/rev antibacklash; new slides for Y THK RSR
Z has gone from 2" to 6" and the hand operated quill is back (it was the Z on the cnc first version)
New base; 2 new slides X axis; reconfig of the other slides; new cross slide table and upper table; new Z axis support and new feedscrew for same (Kert antibacklash 10mm x 10mm 4 start) with 3-1 reduction; slides from Y are now on Z
I'll be working on a new thread when I have time to show all the new goodies

Thanks for the reply Stevie. So the antibacklash on this axis, is rigid, just running the nuts against each other. Did you have toleave a bit of backlash to avoid binding, or not? I am curious as I have the same ball screws (I think - Roton) for my lathe and am wondering which method of anti backlash to do.

got pics of the (former) Delta?

The Delta based mill will be a whole new thread; with pics of the old and the new version
You'll just have to wait; LOL

OK here's a teaser; the new Y axis with X axis riding on top
Remember i like to use what I have on hand; thats why 2 slides on the left; one wide one on the right

http://www.modelbarrels.com/files/Newversion.jpg

Hmm, I have to admit I'm a bit confused by the most recent picture and explaination. So the slide towards the top of the picture is the Y (longest) axis on the lathe? If so why mount the rails to it instead of the base plate. Surely the base was more rigid?

Thats for his mill he is building in another thread.


Jon

hi stevie

that is some beautiful work you are doing , eager to see the end result

I did a search on here for converting a manual large lathe to a CNC controlled unit and come accross this section of the forum

once again keep up the good work

cheers

Thanks

This project is stalled because of the Gantry project
I have time on thisas thereis no real pressing need for it

The Gantry needs to be up by the end of Feb