This is a thread for the PUMA 2500LSY Turning/Mill from Daewoo


Our Company just purchase 3 new Machines, one of which is a PUMA 2500LSY with a Fanuc 18i-TB input panel, 14 tool stations, with 4 live stations, Barfeeder, chip remover, Y-axis, Thru coolant for everthing, Part catch and auto remover, and so many other toys to list. and about +30hp spendel, to start off. We currently use a Solidworks 2006 Professional and FeatureCAM 2006 with upgrades on FeatureMill3D, Feature Turn/Mill, and FeatureRECOGNITION. Our Company is not new to Machining but is new to Programming and CNC work.

I look forward to learning from everyone with thier question and suggestions regarding this system (group)

Just curious. How have things gone with the new machine? We have been thinking of purchasing a new lathe but have put the project on hold for a while. I've looked at Daewoo and have been impressed with options and cost. I'm trying to gather as much info on them while I wait for the go ahead on the project so I'd really like to know how you like it and of any problems or issues that you have. Most I've heard from have been impressed and like their machines and service. Thanks for any feedback.

I have a 2500SY at work...

Mechanicly it is a great machine...

Electronicly it has some problems with "cut off conformation" and a few other special functions that they have now fixed...

Design wise, I feel they screwed up putting such a small Diameter Turret on such a large chucked machine. With a 10" chuck, you should be able to face down to center, an inch away from the jaws, and still not be able to rub your ajacent tools on the chuck. (AKA Clearance Nightmare)...

Thanks for the reply Cincron. I'll have to keep that in mind as we review them. Our plan is to first replace our KIA-21 which is mainly used for chucking. We do plan on doing some bar work with a collet chuck set up too. Do you think the Daewoo would be better suited for barfeeding with a collet chuck setup? Smaller chuck may help to reduce the clearance issue. We will be looking for a new bar machine within the next couple of years. We have been purchasing Mori's and haven't had any major issues but All the goodies are optional, $$$. I like the fact that you get all the goodies at a good price with the Daewoo. I know they will do a good job for a few years after purchased new. My question is will they hold up like a Mori 5-10 years down the road?

We use our Daewoo's for mostly barfeed work. They have 3-jaw chucks.

We also have 2 that do bar end work and they are collet chucks.

I personally prefer a Jaw chuck for just about any work (unless you do alot of thin wall pipe or tube). In our present days, there are so many jaw configurations available you can turn your 3-jaw into just about anything. There are "Collet Pad" type jaws that can do a many sizes if your application needs to be.

If you are going to barfeed, I would just stick with the standard Hard 3-Jaw setup expecially if you run alot of material with scale on it (good ol hot rolled material). A good set of Serrated hard jaws would BITE into the material preventing most of your pushback and slippage. A collet chuck may slip with these types of materials even if you have a good set of serated pads, or carbide coated pads.

The Daewoo comes with a Kitagawa Chuck. This is a very good chuck that will give you many of hours of maintenance fee runtime. If you do a lot of setups, you could look into a "Quick Change" chuck for ease of jaw change. Remember, a quick change chuck means more maintenance. You MUST clean your chuck every 8-hours of runtime in order for them to grip and function correctly.

Mori is a great machine, but from what I hear Daewoo is creeping up on them fast. Daewoo just needs to straiten out their Ladders and their special function codes. Daewoo also needs to pay closer attention to detail on the newer machines like the TT and MX series. I feel they released the TT series a bit too early giving me a bad attitude towards them. I must say that Daewoo does have great service though. If they even think that you are going to bad-mouth their machine they have someone come out for service or just a "courtesy call"

Mechanicaly I think they're going to be a good machine, but we have had some electrical and logic problems with the TT series. Our 2500SY has been running good so far. it is about 1 year old and no major issues besides the clearance thing...

Well its been a slow start up with this machine, come to find out it was missing a few parts when it came in, most of them where in the sub Spendel, some to do with coolant. We also come to find out that the machine has a few extra M codes that they do not list in the book, (ill go back later in our post and look it up so I can post it here) Other than the problems we list above this machine is running great, we have yet to run it at FULL Speed, (working and speed and feed issues).

The clearance on this machine is tight!! we have spendel to spendel running with in .06 from each other and tools next to spendels at .04 from collission. Scary, got to love that M110 code, have to use it alot in the post. We just purcahase the full Machine Sim (featureCAM) so we can see everything in the machine running at once with all tools, spendels and parts. But thats a mess load of set up, plan on doing on mating and parts in solidworks in inserting into FeatureCAM.

Well... There are alot of code not in Daewoo's book... your exactly right...

I have never call Daewoo to get an updated list either. It was hell getting a correct M-code list for a TT2500SY....

If you need some help, I would be glad to do so...

Do you have a sample program of simple bar work, and top cut for the Daewoo. I've just bought a 250msb and an smw space saver. These were never hooked together and smw sent a cable w/ wrong pinouts. I think we've got that solved. A programming example sure would shorten the learning curve. Thank you in advance
.
Jim

We do not use the part catcher to catch the remnant. For one, the remnant hardly fits and for two it was very hard for me to make the -B- axis come forward and catch the remnant consistantly...

At the end of a part program we use this:

N220(==PUSH BAR==)
/2 G65 P8005 X3.2 S800 M4 F.003
G65 P8001 X3. W-.6 Z.035

The First G65 explained:
/2= only used when the bar feeder is at end of bar
G65= use a sub program with variables
P8005= states what sub program to use
X3.2= how far above the stock for top cut position
S800= 800 direct rpm
M4= Spindle Direction
F.013 Face the bar at .013 per rev.

The Second G65 explained:
G65= use a sub program with variables
P8001= states what sub program to use
X3.= how far above the stock for top cut position
W-.6= How far to push the bar into the spindle with a bar stop
Z.035= How infront of Z0. for face stop on the next.

These would be the macro's for the G65's
%
O8001(BAR PUSH)
(MODIFIED FOR 2500SY)
(W=#23=START POS)
(Z=#26=END POS)
IF[#23EQ#0]GOTO1313
IF[#26EQ#0]GOTO1314
G30V0
G30U0
G30W0
T0909M5
G99G40G54
M31
M69(CHUCK OPEN)
M110
G0X#24
G1G98Z[#23+.5]F300.
M51(PUSH)
G1Z#26
M68(CLOSE CHUCK)
G4U.2
G0W.2
G30U0
G30W0
G99
M99
(NOTES BELOW)
N1313#3000=23(NO -W-)
N1314#3000=26(NO -Z-)
M30
%

O8005(CATCH REMNANT BY HAND)
(USE G59 WORK OFFSET FOR TOP-CUT)
G30V0.
G30U0.
G30W0.
M00(GET READY)
G4U3.0
M31
M69(OPEN & DROP)
M51
M68(CHUCK CLOSE)
M00(GET BACK)
T0101M5
G99G40G59
G97S#19M#13
G0X#24Z0M8
G1X-.05F#9
G0W.05
X5.0
G30V0.
G30U0.M5
G30W0.M9
M99
%

Tony, thanks man. I'm not familiar with macro programming yet, but pretty sure I can cipher (or at least convert) what you have here into something we can deal with. I really appreciate you responding. Informative and thorough.
.
Thanks again
.
Jim

We just ordered one, it will be delivered April 21. Any updates on your experiences with this machine? Anyone using them for lights out production at night? Anyone using the MTA Super 80 barfeed?

Well,

Our Daewoo's have preformed quite nice. In the beginning of my experience with these machines, I had an "attitude" because the TT2500SY had so many issues with the ladder...

Here, 3-4 years later, these machines are still running strong with no major issues. The most failure we had (non operator issue) was the lube pump went bad...

Never heard of a MTA Super 80. We are all LNS barfeeders... from our swiss machines to the multi tasking machines...

We run larger bar (3" bar) and our lights out production is as many pcs as the bar can make. Remnant extraction is not a full proof system. We used the parts catcher to remove the bar remnant, and it doesn't catch the part about 5% of the time. a 3" remnant floating around in the machine is not a good thing...

Anyone have any better idea's to remove the remnant from the machine? (besides dropping it into the chip conveyor, which causes damage to the track)

I dont have a daewoo but we do have a 12' LNS sprint barfeeding into a Kia SKT250MS with collet chucks on Main and Sub with a LNS Blaze air vacum unloader on the sub spindle side. The Blaze air is amazing!!!!! It sucks parts out of the subspindle ranging from .750 to 2.5" solid bar up to 36" long.

In my bar change and top cut prg (I use "/2 P9999" to call it) I have the subspindle come up and grab the remnent and then it goes home and the blaze air sucks it out and it rolls out on to a tray with the other parts and then continues the bar loading and top cut prg. and then returns to the main calling prg. and starts making parts again. We made over 60,000 parts last year using this setup.

we are looking to purchase a doosan dual spindel single turret live tool. we are also looking at mori and nakamura. have you ran mori's and nakamura and how do they compare with the doosan.

does the doosan hold its tolerance in alluminum overnight and what problems have you ran into lights out production.

we are looking to run a bar feeder and lights out. i just want to make sure it can do what we need it to do. any suggestions or help would be appreciated. thanks






Well,

Our Daewoo's have preformed quite nice. In the beginning of my experience with these machines, I had an "attitude" because the TT2500SY had so many issues with the ladder...

Here, 3-4 years later, these machines are still running strong with no major issues. The most failure we had (non operator issue) was the lube pump went bad...

Never heard of a MTA Super 80. We are all LNS barfeeders... from our swiss machines to the multi tasking machines...

We run larger bar (3" bar) and our lights out production is as many pcs as the bar can make. Remnant extraction is not a full proof system. We used the parts catcher to remove the bar remnant, and it doesn't catch the part about 5% of the time. a 3" remnant floating around in the machine is not a good thing...

Anyone have any better idea's to remove the remnant from the machine? (besides dropping it into the chip conveyor, which causes damage to the track)

We sell the MTA Super 80 on our bar machines and it works very well. It is a servo driven unit and is good for heavy duty use on large diameter bars. It is less expensive than some of the other brands, but should give you many years of good service. Regarding Lights Out, I would contact Jeff Roth at Chasco Machine and Manufacturing - he is running a Daewoo and a number of our machines Lights Out, including weekends and holidays. He is very open to helping with questions, etc. Jeff can be reached at 727-815-3510.

we are looking to purchase a doosan dual spindel single turret live tool. we are also looking at mori and nakamura. have you ran mori's and nakamura and how do they compare with the doosan.

does the doosan hold its tolerance in alluminum overnight and what problems have you ran into lights out production.

we are looking to run a bar feeder and lights out. i just want to make sure it can do what we need it to do. any suggestions or help would be appreciated. thanks

we are looking to purchase a doosan dual spindel single turret live tool. we are also looking at mori and nakamura. have you ran mori's and nakamura and how do they compare with the doosan.

does the doosan hold its tolerance in alluminum overnight and what problems have you ran into lights out production.

we are looking to run a bar feeder and lights out. i just want to make sure it can do what we need it to do. any suggestions or help would be appreciated. thanks

Never have ran Nakamura but they are the cats meow. Supper dupper rigid...HAHA I personally like them better than mori or doosan or my KIA.

We sell a different model - the Eurotech Elite and would love the opportunity to quote you a machine. Our customers use them all night and they hold tolerances. He runs both aluminum and stainless in a "lights out" mode. He also has two Daewoo's. He had a hard time holding tolerance on the Y axis Daewoo until they installed a chiller unit on the coolant, but after the chiller unit, has not had problems.

Our 2500LSY was delivered on Monday. The machine setup is supposed to be today, barfeed installation tomorrow. This is a large machine for those of you who have small shops. Takes a lot of floor space. And it no longer comes with Kitagawa chucks. Now it has Samchully chucks on it. I will post updates as we get the machine running.

We are looking at ways to load programs into the control, a Fanuc 18i-TB. So far, we have only been able to load 2 programs at a time. This can be a problem when you are using complex programs that have many subprograms. Anyone find a way to load a complete program, including all subs at once? We are using a memory card adaptor in the pc card port.

Why not combine the main and all the subs into one "file". Put a % before the first progam and one after the last m30.

%
01001(MAIN)
...
...
...
...
M30

01001(SUB 1)
...
...
...
M99

O1002(SUB 2)
...
...
...
M99
%

We are also interested in purchasing several Daewoo turning and machining centers. Does anyone have any literature out there in regards to machine specs, options available, etc. Any items can be sent electronically to tstarks34@gmail.com.

Thanks,
Tony

We are trying to do our first part to transfer to the subspindle. Our turret is nowhere near clearing the sub spindle when it comes forward to grab the part. Do you guys locate your blade on the rear of the turret? It's possible we may need to replace the chuck on the sub spindle with a collet chuck to gain the necessary clearance. I am curious about what setups others are using. Photos would be great!:confused:

If collet chucks are an option, they are the best answer. it is not only smaller in diameter but longer so the sub does not have to come so far forward.

Turning the part off blade around to the rear of the turret also helps gain clearance but it forces you to leave more hanging out of the main when you part off.

Manchester makes a "sub-spindle" partoff blade and holder that I've used successfully on the 2000 series.

Make certain you are using the correct tool holder for the cutoff tool. It has 2 steps in it and is notched out to clear the sub-spindle during part off. I usually do my OP. 10 machining close to the main spindle, then do a sub-spindle pull to do my part off. I use a solid left handed tool upside down, so that the main body of the part off tool is towards the main spindle. I haven't had much luck with blade type part off tools on the SY, due to the fact that they are somewhat bulky. You may have to use the M110 to clear any interference alarms that occur when the B axis is brought forward for the part pickoff, or turn of these zones by making system parameters 14910, 14911, 14913 all zeroes. I would make note of these numbers if you want to ever turn the interference zones back on again.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, guys ... All good suggestions. I have a call in to check price/availability of the Manchester cutoff blade. I found an optional right hand cutoff blade holder in the Doosan catalog, too. Not sure which way I will go yet. Probably have to break down and buy a collet nose for the sub at some point.

We have tackled our first job using our live tooling, and we find that the turret positions are not that accurate. For example, one of our live tools looks to be about .007 off centerline when indicated. We started investigating and found the solid holders for drills and boring bars are off .0025 as measured on the surface plate. How close can we reasonably expect the turret to be on a brand new, never crashed machine? This job has a number of different holes and some slots and pockets on the face of the part. Is there a way to compensate for this? I'm thinking if we use a live tool that measures .007 off center then the slot in the part will be off center too. Most of the stations are within .003, but that could be the tooling if they are off as much as the ones we measured.

If you check the front of the blue book that is on the eletrical cabinet door, there should be spec sheets that show what accuracies the machine was at prior to leaving the factory. If your machine is out of spec, I would discuss this with the individuals who installed it. It can possibly be out of level, the casting may be twisted from a poor install, I would take a cut on both spindles and measure the OD's to see how much taper you have. You can do a grid shift to bring all of these axes back to center, but in my opinion a new install should not require one. You can shift back to center with the Work Coordinates as well, but that's quite counterproductive for a new machine. Call your distributor and complain.

Oh yes,

You may want to place an indicator on the turret slot where your stick tools rest, move the X axis to take a reading. It should be out no more than .0005" in the distance of the tool slot. If it is out, your turret may be rotated. You can also check the face of the turret in the same fashion by placing the indicator stem 90 degrees and conducting the X axis test. I would also use a Co-ax style indicator to check the bores for center. If you are using a mag base from the face of the chuck, you may be experiencing indicator sag in the Y axis with as much TIR as .015". I wouldn't believe it had I not seen it myself. Don't have a coAX? take a hose clamp and strap the indicator to a piece of bar stock to make certain you are not dealing with sag in the Y axis.

DAEWOO IN MY EXPERIENCE DOES NOT OFFER A HIGH END MACHINE. THEY SEEM TO HAVE POOR MECHANICAL INSTALLATIONS ON THE MACHINE FROM THE FACTORY. SUCH AS DRAW BAR NUT ON MILLS NOT HAVING SET SCREWS IN THEM OR OTHER MINOR ISSUES THAT COULD BE AVOIDED AT THE FACTORY. IF YOUR MACHINE IS OF THAT MUCH I WOULD STAY AFTER YOUR VENDOR AND LET THEM FIX IT ON THEIR DOLLAR. WE HAVE NOTICED SEVERAL PROBLEMS WITH OUR TURRETS IN THE PAST. GOOD LUCK.

If the machine has a Y axis, there should be Y axis offsets that will allow the tools to be offset to Y0 when called in the program.
For instance, if the tool is .003 to high in the Y+ direction, place a -.003 offset in the Y axis Wear or Geometry offset.
In the program, you must state Y0 in order for the Y offset to be active.
At the end of the program it will be necessary to cancel the Y offset and return the machine to Machine Y0 before continuing to the next tool.

Example:

T0101 (CALL TURRET INDEX WITH OFFSET)
G0 X? Z? Y0 (POSITION TOOL)
-----
-----
-----
-----
G0 X? Z? (RAPID TO CLEART INDEX POSITION) T0100(CANCEL OFFSET) G0 Y0 (RETURN TO MACHINE Y0)
M01 (OPTIONAL STOP)

* Some tool holders have the ability to be physically adjusted with the use of an eccentric dowel that lifts or lowers the tool in the key or pocket.

www.EurotechElite.com

We have tackled our first job using our live tooling, and we find that the turret positions are not that accurate. For example, one of our live tools looks to be about .007 off centerline when indicated. We started investigating and found the solid holders for drills and boring bars are off .0025 as measured on the surface plate. How close can we reasonably expect the turret to be on a brand new, never crashed machine? This job has a number of different holes and some slots and pockets on the face of the part. Is there a way to compensate for this? I'm thinking if we use a live tool that measures .007 off center then the slot in the part will be off center too. Most of the stations are within .003, but that could be the tooling if they are off as much as the ones we measured.

if you are off by .007 you have a serious problem, we have 2ea 2000sy and the live tooling holders are in location in the .0001. you want to make sure the o-ring seals are set properly and not causing the holders to tilt