Guys,
I haven't had much time lately to do more then just check messages every couple of days, but as far as electronics go may I suggest you have a look at:

http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/4aupc.htm

Yes they are unipolar, but they are chopper drives, not ballasted.
The packages are a decent price, and if you check here:

http://www.hobbycnc.com/downloadslinks/downloadslinks.htm

Under the downloads section, there is an article on bashing a Computer p.s. into a 12vdc supply to run your machine.

Also, while time has been tight, I have managed to get some time to try an idea for a supported rail system using 1 1/4 EMT fastened to (on top of) 2 pcs of Aluminum angle put back to back to make a reasonable facsimile of Tee rail similar to this:

http://www.pacific-bearing.com/products/viewFamily.cfm?famID=01743E89-C09F-1129-FC2C-7B27301462DA

Easy to do, not expensive, and all you need is a couple of clamps and a drill to make the pcs.
Will post pics when I get the chance.

Iain

Mike, what kind of plywood are you using for $29?

Buy your bearings on Ebay, they're much cheaper there. Here's one example http://cgi.ebay.com/16-ABEC-7-Roller-Blade-Rollerblade-Skate-Bearing-Bronze_W0QQitemZ7182068400QQcategoryZ1301QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dave, the Xylotex is a chopper driver, and doesn't need resistors to run at higher voltages. I think if you tried one you'd find a huge difference between that and your FET.

Imo, there are 2 entry level driver/motor options.
1) As already mentioned, Xylotex, with the motors they sell for $50 each. A 3axis drive + 3 motors is $295. The motors are rated for 269 oz-in at 2.8a. Since the Xylotex can only supply 2.5a, you'll only get about 240oz-in
(269 * 2.5/2.8)

2) HobbyCNC with the motors they sell for $55 each. http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/4aupc.htm The kit with 3 motors is $214. These motors are 200 oz-in. This drive comes as a kit, you'll have to solder it yourself. I've heard it can be done in less than 2 hours.

24V power supplies can be found with some regularity on Ebay for $10. http://cgi.ebay.com/Nidec-Potrans-24v-6-5a-universal-input-power-supply_W0QQitemZ7546128106QQcategoryZ58286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Although the HobbyCNC motors are a little smaller, the drive can be run at 36+ volts vs the Xylotex 24-28V. This can give the HobbyCNC a little higher top speeds, although the power supply may be more expensive.

Bottom line, I think Mike's $200 target is a little low. Probably obtainable, but low. All the little things add up fast. A better guess imo would be ~$300, + $300-$350 for motors and drives. Somewhere in the $650 range plus a PC.

So are there any other pro's/cons for HobbyCNC vs. Xylotex

The price diff is not that big and I have no problem soldering the board. Can someone tell me anything that would make me buy one over the other?

Hey Carl,

I really like your idea with the angle iron. I was also noticing that the midrange thread has been somewhat stale as of late. Since your design really does not fall within the parameters of the hardware thread, why don't you start up a design based on your angle iron idea. Put it in the mid range thread.

I think if we go any further with it in this thread, we will loose the ability to work toward the strength of the system. The budget is just to limited in the hardware design to take advantage of the great possibilities that are available with this design.

Now, just a few ideas for the design. Go for an all steel or aluminum design, similar to the renderings you posted. This thing would be very strong and quite easy to build.

This is just my opinion but I would like to see it built with the correct budget. I think to get the most out of it you would probably be in the $1500-$2500 budget range.

Keep the good ideas coming and great renderings by the way.

Jimmy

Yeah Jimmy, I was working on re-designing it to use wood/MDF as sort of a torsion box idea, but like you said, the design just begs to be made out of all metal. That was the exact thought I was having. I am definitly going to building a machine based on this idea, So I'll push it over to the midrange thread. I love the hardware store specific designs though, there is something guerilla about it. -Carl

Hey Carl,

Thanks, I just got through posting on the mid range thread, putting out the call for helpers. I will be keeping an eye out for a very coooool home brew mid range machine.

Holler if you need us,
Jimmy

I am intriqued by Carl's idea as well. I was wondering about using 90 degree aluminum angle and applying thin (.060) strips of adhesive-backed UHMW where the bearings ride. Anyone have experience with skate bearings on UHMW?

I Love this idea ... it rocks.
i think i'm gonna try this on my machine ,
with some dustwipers (don't actually know what this is called in english).
i'm currently planning , and will try to build in this idea.
There really is a ton of good ideas on this site.
Thanks.

I've got the tool holder done. Good thing that we are nearing the end of the pipe design... it sounds like there is a lot of interest in the angle iron design now!

Here's the tool holder...

And I think all that's left is the thrust bearing...

Mike...

Steve,

I am going to work on the thrust bearing next. Looking at your design, I wondered, is it necessary to keep the acme thd rod in tension? I'd like to put your dual bearing arrangement on the side of the machine opposite the stepper, and not put the acme rod in tension. Your thoughts?

Mike...

From what I learned from reading and being told by many others is that the screw must always be fixed at the motor end.

The non-driven end needs a bearing, but not always a nut (so no, the rod does not have to be in tension, but will probably help if it is).

Steve

From what I learned from reading and being told by many others is that the screw must always be fixed at the motor end.

The non-driven end needs a bearing, but not always a nut (so no, the rod does not have to be in tension, but will probably help if it is).

Steve

As long as everything is in alignment, it shouldn't matter which end is supporting the screw. This might depend on the type of coupler used, though. Putting it in tension will let you spin it faster without whipping, if you can get enough tension on it.

I think you can get away without a lower bearing on the Z axis, but the X and Y should have them at both ends.

most of you allready probably know this stuff but I thought I would through in a cabinate making tip. When you rip your cross supports set your fence and rip them all at once that way they are all exactly the same width same idea with the length somehow set the lenght with a stopper and cut them all at once you get all exactly the same length. My idea for the circles being the same for all would be to use a drill press yours or a friends and clamp two blocks of wood on either side of the circle cutter at the right depth for the amount of cutout then clamp two pieces on either side of the support so that every support goes in at exactly the same position so if the circle is a little off center they are all like that so the pipe will still be parrallel. I hope I this will help.

I was fiddling around with this idea. It's coming along slowly as my shop access is limited...

that could probably work if one were to get the angle iron pretty smooth and trued up ..
Someone on the board probably knows the level of consistency on angle iron .. have you checked out beg frame AI ? It comes pre-painted and looks fairly straight and I think its' usually about 1/8" possibly 3/16" .. which seems like enough strength for something less than 3 or 4' long , esp. if reg. supports along the way are provided.

I love the angle iron Idea I think its brilliant its simple and not to bulky I wonder if the bearing edge could be ground to make it true or even if that would be nessesary. I am building I guess what you would call a mid range design but the expense of bearings is rediculus. I think the angle idea would mount on my t slotted aluminum very nicely this thread rocks to bad scientists couldn't bang heads like this LOL

Mike, have you made any progress in the last few weeks? Anybody else?

I wish I could say I had. I've been swamped with work, and have not had a chance to do anything recently.

I still have to finish up the axial bearing thingie, and then move on to making drawings...

Plus I need to find time to work on my machine...

What can we do to put in for about 25 hours a day? LOL

Mike...

Question:

Would there be an interest in precut kits, and/ or preassembled and finished torsion boxes with rails attached? I'm working on a new design (very slowly) and am thinking about selling kits and prebuilt parts. Just trying to get an idea right now. It would be a year or so away. (After I get my router done :) )

Howdy Everyone

Sorry for not posting much lately! This time of year is my busiest.

I have been trying to work on the angle iron torsion box design but have had very little time. I will post some of my ideas and pics in a week or so. Mike I agree with you on that 25 hours thing.

Gerry, From what I have seen from Joe and others that are producing parts, it seems to be a very good idea but I'm not sure about complete machine parts. The shipping costs would be rediculous. Maybe go for the template set made out of acrylic or something lightweight but strong. I believe you would have a lot better success. Just my opinion.

See Ya
Jimmy

Question:

Would there be an interest in precut kits, and/ or preassembled and finished torsion boxes with rails attached? I'm working on a new design (very slowly) and am thinking about selling kits and prebuilt parts. Just trying to get an idea right now. It would be a year or so away. (After I get my router done :) )


I have been thinking the same thing. I think if proper lightening of the components were done the shipping might not be really outrageous. Of course your time is worth something.

I have been thinking the same thing. I think if proper lightening of the components were done the shipping might not be really outrageous. Of course your time is worth something.


I'm thinking a complete assembled 24" x 30" torsion box would weigh around 10 - 15 lbs (not including the rails). 9mm (3/8) Baltic Birch frame with 1/4" skins, maybe threaded inserts to attach a sacrificial cutting surface.

I'm thinking about complete machine kits with all the major compoments assembled. Not sure if I could do it cheap enough, though. But CheapCNC was selling smaller MDF machines for over $1500, so maybe.

I'm thinking a complete assembled 24" x 30" torsion box would weigh around 10 - 15 lbs (not including the rails). 9mm (3/8) Baltic Birch frame with 1/4" skins, maybe threaded inserts to attach a sacrificial cutting surface.

I'm thinking about complete machine kits with all the major compoments assembled. Not sure if I could do it cheap enough, though. But CheapCNC was selling smaller MDF machines for over $1500, so maybe.

I think you could do it OK with just the hard to make parts. You know the ribs, the rails, the attachment stuff. Someone should be able to get skins cut at the local home center.

I was intrigued by the steel angle design, and started drawing something up. Until I realised that there's no clearance between the guide rail angle and the bearing mount angle. Here's what I came up with. Epoxy 2 pieces of 1/8" x 3/8" steel bar to the angle; the bearings will ride on this bar, which gives you the needed clearance. With a little 5 minute epoxy, and clamping it to my table saw top while it cures, it should be nice and flat. Here's a quick drawing, and a preliminary view of the table torsion box w the rails.

Gerry, I too am intrigued by angle iron rails. I found out that the angle has an outside radius also. Look back at posts 209 and 211 in this thread. My tests showed me that I didn’t have to worry about that clearance. But I did not apply any pressure and check for tolerances. Getting the mounting bolts out of the way was another challenge.

I have been mentally toying with a flat top gantry type router, ala Shopbot. One with the main rails elevated on torsion boxes (which would also help control the dust). But every design has its drawbacks.

Steve

I looked at those pics while trying to figure out a better way. I didn't care for the method you tried :) My bearing carrier angle will still be 1/4" aluminum, so I can easily route clearance slots for the bolt heads.

The elevated rails would be in the way for me. I want the whole table exposed when loading large sheets of material.

If I ever get my first router done, I'm going to build a smaller one to test the angle rails out. One thing I'd like to do is design some type of felt wiper, which will both clean and lightly oil the rails.

Question:

Would there be an interest in precut kits, and/ or preassembled and finished torsion boxes with rails attached? I'm working on a new design (very slowly) and am thinking about selling kits and prebuilt parts. Just trying to get an idea right now. It would be a year or so away. (After I get my router done :) )

Yes, I think there would be an interest. Especially if the parts are reasonably priced, and cnc is required to make an accurate machine.

Mike...

Yes, I think there would be an interest. Especially if the parts are reasonably priced, and cnc is required to make an accurate machine.

Mike...

I'm working on a design right now. I'm also going to make some time 1 or 2 nights a week to try and get my router finished.

Any more progress, Mike? Or are you as busy as me. :)

As I've been reading and brainstorming on how to build my first machine, I wondered about the unistrut idea. It had been mentioned early on as a construction element. Could it be used as a rail support fastened to the torsion box.
Thank you for getting me interested in this. I am a Prototype Modelmaker for a display company. Building one of these would help me out immensly as I am building everything on a manual Bridgeport for my vacuum form patterns.[IMG]

Has the idea of the gantry Y axis being laid down as in the Shopbot, been explored?
Or are the forces of torque and cutting force working against you to the point that a tube rail design is impractical with the y axis on the same plane as the X. The z carriage would at least be centered weight wise in the middle.

for the thread rod.. use the one from home depot for stepping :)
That what i use

Until I realised that there's no clearance between the guide rail angle and the bearing mount angle.

The same thing was encountered when I was designing my gantry. Here is what I ended up doing.
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/zaxis_carriage_2.jpg

If you let the bearing surface extend beyond the corner of the angle, the point where the bearing surface planes intersect will be past the corner of the angle iron. This eliminates the need for building up a surface where more irregularities can be introduced. There is already enough of that just using HRS.

Dave

There are also more pics in my gallery. I am still working on this build, but some progress has been made.

Dave

This is my first post to this collective effort, I been reading it since post #1.

I have a suggestion for simplicity sake, as a saying says a picture is worth 1000 words, I just saved writting 3000 :D

This solves the round cut needed at the extremes for supporting the pipe, which my be difficult to people without the proper tools.

My 0.02 (of peso)


Pablo

Here is what I did. I used 2 in sq fence posts.

Trainhound,
As I don't see any bearings on your gantry, I suspect you use delrin or uhmw or something like that (but not shown in the pictures)?

Dave

Dave, I use skate bearings mounted on angle iron on a mdf base and that sits between the angle iron brackets on both sides here is a link to some video of my machine. http://briefcase.yahoo.com/mrconductor@sbcglobal.net

I forgot to mention that I had to modify my gantry due to a miss calculation. How does the saying go cut once measure twice? I should have measured 4 times

Trainhound,

Looks good. Isn't it funny how when we reach a milestone, such as getting something to the point where it moves, it feels like we just climbed Mt Everest?! I can't wait to see mine doing that!

Keep up the good work!

Dave

Oh, and do you think my wife would mind if I brought the O/A torch into the kitchen for demonstration? :p

Dave

Oh, and do you think my wife would mind if I brought the O/A torch into the kitchen for demonstration? :p

Dave

My wife didn't mind, but again she exceptional! :wee: Dave, I'm sure your wife wouldn't mind, go ahead and try it..

I'm planning on building my first CNC machine and have been reading alot, including all of the Hardware Store design. I'm really impressed on the work that has gone on! Will there be plans available in the near future? And, is it heading toward tubes, angles, or square tube? Also, I take it that the plan will be scalable.
Or, should I be looking at other plans? Like Joe's or JGRO? Or any other suggestions, I do have the basic tools, table saw, drill press. band saw, router, etc.
Any and all help will be appreciated to point me in the right direction.
Thanks in advance, Wally

Hi Guys, I think you are reinventing the wheel. John Kleinbauer has the 7th Soujourn and other models that are easy to make and quite accurate. I built his pipedream and still use it four years later.

His web site is: http://www.crankorgan.com/plans.htm

If you go your own route, the cost of the scrap from "boo boo's" will be more expensive than buying a set of plans and getting it right the first time.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve

Steve, the goal here was to improve on John's designs, by supporting the pipe, to make a much more rigid machine without much additional cost.

Hello all:

I was reading your Hardware CNC Thread and all of a sudden it stopped. Come on guys, this is like reading a good novel and losing the last half of the book. What happened.

Dale Jones
Jonesy604@yahoo.com

I think everyone got a bit too busy. Hopefully Mike will pick up where he left off.

I hope so , You guys are the best at design. its a great thread. Im getting ready to build my first cnc.

Thanks for the reply

dale

I second dale's thoughts, and I too am getting ready to build my first cnc.
Wally

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I have not been contributing much lately. Went through some changes in my business and have not had the time to keep up with the design.

I would like to say to smanzer this machine is not even close to the pipe dream. We are designing a low cost, high end able machine. So your comparison with the pipe dream is like comparing a volkswagon to a Ferrari. There not even close to competing.

I really hope to be building this machine very soon. I NEED IT NOW!!! :)

Now as to being scalable, I think you could easily scale this idea from a small table top engraver say 12"x18" to 48"x60" with proper engineering of the components. Very nice design IMHO, although I may be a bit prejudice. :cool:

Hope to see the ideas start to flow again real soon
Chow for now.
Jimmy Southern

P.S. for those that Know Italian that is "Ciao" no hate mail please :stickpoke

used 2 long parts from old drafting tables
used gear type belts to drive it
all motors are timing belt drive
posted pic in home built cnc
most all parts were from old ibm laser printers
painted home made frame blue

smokieborde

Thanks, Jimmy Southern, for your reply, I'll wait for the design. It sounds like a great way to go and we'll end up with a machine that should last for a long time and not be too expensive.
Wally

For less critical applications (hardware store type) I find that mounting aluminum channels onto MDF or melamine coated shelving make a great track for lawn mower wheels. They track straight and if the diameter is large enough, they are smooth.

Mr Greybeard
How are you makeing out with the cnc ,what do you have in mind for controlling the said beast,myself i would like to convert this warco mill ,i've got the motors ,pc,psu all the gears and belts but not the interface or program disk (Compucut system) still when it gets a bit warmer and the workshop wont seem so far to go . ttfn BAZ

Sticking in my two bits....

Around ten years ago, I helped my son build a small 12 x 12 inch moving table/fixed gantry cnc unit for a science fair project. It pulled a consistant 0.03 accuracy. It used 100 oz steppers driving 6 tpi acme thread screws by 12 x 32 toothed belt pulleys giving a reduction to 16 tpi drive and giving the steppers a 2.66 advantage. It would cut aluminum with a flat 1/4 inch mill at 0.125 depth per pass. There was no welding or machining in it's construction. It was all assembled with bolts, flush screws, and locktite..

Jimmy Southern's post should give anyone a big clue... We utilized the slider design that Dave Gingery always uses in his hanbuit machine designs. It is strong, ridgid, and is as accurate as the builder wants to build it. We used cold rolled steel for the X and Y axis. Considering weight, steel was used for the Z ways but aluminum was used for the Z slide. The stationary gantry frame was constructed from the telescoping sizes of square steel tubing similar to the type used for trailer hitch recievers. Eveything was mounted on 1 inch thick exterior grade MDF which had a 0.02 sheet of Mylar sandwiched between the gantry's and the table's parts and the MDF covering the working side to protect the wood from oil.

The screw nuts were adjustable to zero lash and made from Delron.

Around eight years ago, my son sold the machine for $500.00. We have no pictures but if anyone is interested, I can draw up most of the details and post them..

quick response to Dave (Archiestdragon): using 10mm (M10) threaded rod may well give you problems later. I began with it but as the nut-and-rod got 'run-in' the rod warped quite distinctly so it wanted to rotate in a wobble and this created a lot of extra friction = strain on the motors. I have since gone over to 5/8UNC threaded rod and this offers a huge improvement - the software can easily cope with the non-metric pitch.
Like you, I am building with only a hand-drill; I will post my write-up soon.

Hi Guys, I think you are reinventing the wheel. John Kleinbauer has the 7th Soujourn and other models that are easy to make and quite accurate. I built his pipedream and still use it four years later.

His web site is: http://www.crankorgan.com/plans.htm

If you go your own route, the cost of the scrap from "boo boo's" will be more expensive than buying a set of plans and getting it right the first time.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve

I have to agree with this, if your goal is to have a working CNC as quickly and as cheaply as possible. However, if your goal is to learn something, maybe it's better to take the first stab at building it yourself.

I built my first CNC without plans, but borrowing liberally from what was posted on the net. Much of what I found was inspired by John Kleinbauer's designs. I made many mistakes in my own design that could have been avoided with explicit plans, but learned a lot in the process, and I'm not sorry that I took this approach.

Recently, I ordered John Kleinbauer's "Jester" plans. I haven't built it yet, because I haven't had time, and my self-designed mill is ok for PCB milling and such for now, but I'm very impressed with the quality of the plans, and I plan to at least use some of his ideas in my next iteration. It's a well thought out design.

Kevin

CAD users? What do you need from cad users?
Have u guys looked at this site? http://www.crankorgan.com/plans.htm
he has some good ideas.

Hi Dufus

I'm interested in looking at any drawings you can put together of your machine.

eqreservoir....

OK....Give me a few days to put things together......

Stationary Gantry Router drawings

Marvin Bush is head of Homeland Security ?

Hi dufus
WOW! Thanks for posting the gantry design. As promised you came through. You did an excellent job. The txt file was an unexpected addition to the file. I like the linear rails with gibs. Gives me one more Idea to consider as I plan my router.

You are more than welcome. If just one piece of the design can be useful to you or someone, it made the effort worth while...

If you don't have one, get one of Dave Gingery's machine building books. I suggest either the one on making the lathe or milling machine. Both have excelent instructions on making ways and slides from stock metal. I didn't do any 3 on 1 burnishing. I used the grit and rub technique to lap the ways. It worked pretty good. Without the drive screw connected, I could lift one end of the base about 6 inches and the table would glide to the lower end as if it were on rollers....

Anyway, good luck with your project.........

I forgot to add...The plastic in the design is called out as Delron, that is the name that my local plastic store calls it. The true name is Delrin... A rose by any other name...I guess...

Dufas,

Nice job on the modeling and rendering...

Mike...

Stationary Gantry Router drawings

Has anyone considered making the linear bearings out of MDF? Attached below are some CAD models of a LB idea that I came up with using MDF with eccentric bushings. I actually made a prototype using my table saw and drill press and it came out pretty good. The distance from the top surface to the rod was within .003/.004 from one side to the other. It was strong too. I put all 230 lbs of myself standing on one foot and it didn't break. I wish I would have taken some pictures of it before I tore it apart to try something else. Food for thought.

jgro

hi jgro

that is a very nice idea ur bearing setup , bracket and adjustment setup , you just gave me a idea for my CNC 6ft by 4ft plasma table setup

just have to find stepper motors and drivers and software and a old PC or laptop to run the table setup

some of you guys have great ideas and the amount of information in here is unbelievable

cheers

hi ,
yes I have used buller drawer slides ,they are excellent and cheap’, I have built my cnc router and foam cutter with both drawer slides and metal bar and roller blade bearings and it works fine. I use the bar on the y axis and drawer slides on the x and z axis. the biggest problem is the motor to lead screw (m 10 threaded bar B&Q)I’m using Polly pipe and jubilee clips and the are not very good been trying to get some proper flexi couplers but no luck so far.will post some pic's soon
Phil

Hi Guys, for the last couple of months I have been reading the posts re cheap CNC routers and browsing the software possibilties now available. For some crazy reason I decided that I was going to build something that with luck would look like and in some ways perform like a CNC machine, I think the reason I started down this path was the sheer enthusiasm of the members and their thirst for knowledge. Anyway I am enclosing pictures of my efforts after 2 weeks work for your comments ,criticisms and questions Best Regards Rod

Congrats on your start, Rod.

That's a unique way of mounting the rolling guides. Lets see some larger pics for better detail.

Jason

Thanks Jason, I hope the larger pics help. The X axis bars you can see are 28mm dia. Regards Rod

Sorry Jason, I sent the wrong pic, this is final version of truck Rod

3 weeks in and the Y axis movement is in. I know the allthread going every which way looks a mess but you certainly can fine tune the squareness of the three axis with it.
Still waiting for steppers and lead screws from USA, I'm anxious to move on to next stage...Rod

Keep that good work going, it looks great and keep up with the pics.

Jason

Hey grandad, great looking design!

I am a total newbie to CNC, and have only been reading this site for a few days as I plan out my first machine.

My question is, arent you concerned with the two "rail riders" pushing outward, that as the gantry gets to the center of the pipes, it will flex them outward and give you a little slop as far as the gantry angle/tilting?

I REALLY like your design, and cant decide between an inner bearing structure like yours, or a cradled pipe design.

What are your thoughts on it, am I concerned for nothing?

One thing I was considering if I mimicked your design would be to widen the gantry a bit, and then run side rails between the two end boards so i could add V-shaped cradles on the outside of the pipe, so the carriage would push the pipe against a cradle, to eliminate my fears of flex. That is if my fears are founded at all, ive got no idea what kind of flex is in those pipes, or how much pressure you exert on them (how hard you have them pushing outward).

Hi, Thanks for the compliment. At the moment the pressure on the side rails is minimal, the bearing trucks were adjusted until they were touching the rails and then very slightly preloaded, less than a quarter of a turn on the adjusting nuts. I put a guage on the outside of the rails near the centre and I could not read any outward movement when moving the gantry.

Certainly I think the gantry could be wider to increase the cutting footprint, mine is 20cm x 70cm which for the application that this machine was designed for is fine.

If I can be of any more help please let me know....Rod

Thanks for the response!

I have decided to go with your inner truck design, just because one of my initial concerns with the outboard pipes/trucks was that they werent protected from dust/spray from cutting. I had visions of sawdust spraying down the rail while i was away from the desk, and the trucks rolling over hills of dust, causing variations in the cuts.

With yours, i could lay a cover over the rails as a work table, and worry a lot less about the rails collecting dust or anything getting in the way of the rolling action.

I like how your design offers the ability to skin the outside and cover up the mechanics, all while maintaining a large work surface.

What diameter are your rails, and what are the dimensions on your angle iron for the carriages if you dont mind me asking?

Sorry wolfmarsh, I missed the last line of your message yesterday. The diameter of the x axis rails are 28 mm the y rails are 20 mm z will be 16mm. The angle iron for the X Y Trucks is 30mm x 30mm x 5mm....regards Rod

Now into the 6th week, finally sorted the Z axis, I saw a very sophisticated design here and downgraded it to achieve hardware store status,,,Rod

Very Nice Grandad! I have still been assembling my parts and drawings for mine. My metal arrives wednesday of this week, I already have my pipes and bearings, and my fasteners should be here this week as well sometime. Ill begin documenting mine as soon as I have all the parts and make sure my blueprints are how I want to proceed.

Ive been doing mockups of some of my assemblies, and think its going to be nice.

Your pictures continue to give me some great ideas!!! Thanks for posting them.

Very nice! However, I have a feeling you may need to re-think the setscrews 'dangling' out to the vertical-slide: All the cutting forces will be taken by them - and when your cutters are becoming less-than-sharp this can be considerable - and any 'spring' in the bolts will allow the motor-unit to wander around. I know because mine does!
Simplest way to stiffen it may be to use hardware-store bushings as spacers between the backplate and each inner bearing, along with a healthy sized plate washer against the plywood. It loses the ability to adjust the bearings' position but you can set your vertical via the cross-rails.

Nice going !
Your a lot faster then me :-))
Looking forward to your next pictures.

Thanks for input Geoff, You're right, although the set up feels quite rigid at the moment it's probable that some movement will occur under cutting loads. I'm going to have a shop around tosee what bushings I can find. My problem is that I do have access to a lathe and could easily machine some pillars but I think this would take it out of the hardware store category, maybe I should shift up one level....Rod

Great work Rod. Its a simple design that will get you up and running soon.
After you get the leadscrew, ab nut and motors hooked up you can make any mods from there.
Sometimes you need to get it running first and experience the feeling of, "It works!!!!!"

Jason

I need some guidance here, If I use a lathe to machine some parts does this take this project out of the hardware store CNC category and into another...Rod

I need some guidance here, If I use a lathe to machine some parts does this take this project out of the hardware store CNC category and into another...Rod


I'd say definately yes. Feel free to start a new thread about your machine in either the DIY forum, or the project log forum.

What happened to all of the design ideas for an open source plan. I still haven't seen it. Is it dead???
Scott

Hi I hope this is ok I am not selling anything I have been following this site for about a year and have learned tons from all of you I built a homebrew using drawer slides just to see if it worked and designed my own controller and my own job software. look at the pictures at capefearmicro.com hope this is ok if anybody wants a copy of the components and the schematic let me know also the code for the pic. let me know I dont sell anything but will share it with you free.

Have any of you had experience with noise reduction? My machine is cutting quite well but the neighbours are complaining at the noise levels. When 'engraving' there is no problem because I simply turn-down the power to the router to suit the very light cuts but if I take 3mm cuts with a quarter-inch bit into solid timber (i.e. more power), the noise is downright awful.
Advice please - and yes I have thought of moving house!
Geoff

You may have to build an enclosure for the machine. You can make a nice "box" with a dor using foam insulation and velcro. When you are done using the box, break it down and store away.

RipperSoftware

Have any of you had experience with noise reduction?
.
.
but if I take 3mm cuts with a quarter-inch bit into solid timber (i.e. more power), the noise is downright awful.
Advice please - and yes I have thought of moving house!
Geoff

I worry about the same problem.
"Luckely" i have no cnc router, yet.

I had an experience this week which might help in some cases.
I was working piece of metal in the benchvice by hand with a file.
It made a awfull loud high pitch sound.
Then i made the benchvice grip even more stronger and the sound went away.
Fixing the metal very strong to the holding device can help a lot.
I was supprised how much difference it made.

You can not have a part of the benchvice grip strong and part grip not so strong, or almost not at all.
This will be the place where the energy makes the metal vibrate against the benchvice, producing very loud noise.
I think :-) Maybe someone can comment on this ?

Other possible solution:
Put your machine on sound reducing material inside a sound proof box.
If thats not enough, put the sound proof box on sound reducing material inside a second sound proof box.

I hope your machine is not to big :-)

I will read the answers with interest :-)

Other possible solution:
Put your machine on sound reducing material inside a sound proof box.


That is what I am doing. In fact, where my machine is bolted to the table there will be a rubber pad between the machine/table and between the bolts/table. That way everything is "floating" on the rubber isolating pads and won't transmit as much (very little) vibration to the table. Big flat tables make excellent resonating surfaces...

An enclosure is a good idea not just for noise, but dust too! Just make sure you are feeding it enough cool air to keep your router/spindle from overheating!

An enclosure is a good idea not just for noise, but dust too!

And for safety.
No broken cutter parts flying through the air.

Thanks for your suggestions.
I have in mind to try a bit of both, i.e. to put the machine onto foam and put a box around it.
What sort of foam do you suggest? I wondered about the carpet underlay type of stuff as it seems quite dense.

Thanks for your suggestions.
I have in mind to try a bit of both, i.e. to put the machine onto foam and put a box around it.
What sort of foam do you suggest? I wondered about the carpet underlay type of stuff as it seems quite dense.

I, personally, wouldn't use foam. Rubber, or even polyurethane bushings (http://www.corvairunderground.com/govair/graphite.htg/u-2216poly.jpg) (you can find them at an auto-parts store), would be the best bet. Hell, you could even cut up an old scrap tire.

You want it arranged as such:

Machine -> Large Washer -> Rubber -> Bench/Table/Frame/Floor -> Rubber -> Large Washer -> Bolt Head. Hole should be a little oversized so the bolt isn't touching the sides of the hole.

I was lucky enough to get a few large sheets of 1/4" rubber from scrap.

I was actually thinking of the type of foam to use for the enclosure but your mention of sheet rubber has got me thinking.... what if I attached sheet rubber to say plywood for the enclosure?

I was actually thinking of the type of foam to use for the enclosure but your mention of sheet rubber has got me thinking.... what if I attached sheet rubber to say plywood for the enclosure?

Oh, sorry 'bout that. Well, rubber can deaden sound a little, but not like a good foam or mat can. The basic 'egg-carton' looking foam will do the trick to cut sound and diffuse it. Would get caked with dust and be a PITA to clean though...

There is a product called Dynamat that audio people use, especially in cars (one side is adhesive, and it is fairly thin), it works excellent but it is really expensive. However, you look at hardware stores - there is a a type of roofing mat that comes in a roll, one side is adhesive. It deadens sound just as well as the Dynamat - and is a whole ton cheaper. I'll see if I can find you a trade name...

Much appreciated. Thanks.

Geoff, I think the only way to reduce the noise to a neighbour friendly level is to put the machine in an enclosure, but not just a tin box, could make the problem worse. There are acoustic tiles available which can reduce noise levels, they are full irregular holes and seem to hold the sound back quite well. I will have to put mine in some sort of enclosure when its finished. BTW I took your advice about my router mtg. if you can remember.........Rod

Peel and Seal is the product name. I just finished the interior of my truck with a product called Raamatt. Better specs than Dynamat and way cheaper. The problem with the dynamat type of stuff is the amount of noise it can absorb. It doesn't have enough mass to abosrb enough of the dB's. I also used another product- expensive, but i got it second hand, cheap. This is 100% the way to do it... It really is designed for a similar application

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/17973/0/0/engine%20noise/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and brand names.

Well, since so much of my machine seems to come from the scrap-box, JavaDog's suggestion of isolating the machine from its base by 'an old scrap tire' made me think.

So now it is isolated by some of the springs used to support a spin-drier motor - and it works well! The vibrations at the cutting table are ~not~ carried through to the base, according to my fingertips.

I await local responses to my enquiries for commercial materials like dynamat but in the meantime have begun gluing papier-mache egg-cartons to plywood ready to form a box (it's amazing, some places charge $2 (80 baht, 1 pound 20) per carton whilst other shops will give me a stack 'for free'). Initial trialing with one side and a half top seems to make a (small) difference but that could be just that I hear what I want to hear.

Geoff

dynamatt or the others are not ment to absorb sound. its ment to deaden the full panels of metal from flexing and itself radiating sound.


btw if installed properly al you need is one sq inch of dynamat per 1 sq foot of metal panel. you place the pad in each sq foot.. you dont need to plaster the whole thing like wallpaper. problem is so many articles been performed on it that shows it being over used everything things its whats needed. look at the demo that have setup. with the huge oilcan. one with dynomat and one without. its only got a 1" sq

Yet another thread with good intentions gone sour due to lack of activity.. shame, I'd really liked to have seen this project come to fruition. I'm a lurker gathering info for my own CNC project and hoped to maybe contribute to this project somehow. If nothing else, comic relief :o (chair)

luvbug

If it helps, I have spent the past 2-3 months designing my machine off of this thread, and am scheduled to perform the build 7/7/06 to 7/11/06.

I will post a nice thread of pics and the like.

Whilst I 'almost' agree with Luvbug about lack of activity, there is probably an awful lot of experimentation happening with the projects that are underway - and it takes time to put together a coherent description of them.
Since my last post, I have:
a/ mounted the machine on springs - ex spin-drier, as mentioned above - and that has considerably reduced noise, but not enough to pacify my neighbours
b/ moved the machine from the middle of the workshop to near a (garden) wall and enclosed it completely with 15mm ply, lined with papier-mache egg-cartons. Now that has had an enormous effect. Fairly happy neighbours at last.
The enclosure is about 5' wide x 4' deep x 5'6" high and is fairly well sealed. The only entry points are for one power cable and the printer cable, besides the access door and that is always closed when the router is on (though often open during set-up and homing.)
Nothing gets hot, not the electronics, not the stepper motors and not the Bosch POF500 router.
I am now near to finishing a small batch of production pieces through which I have learned a great deal, about the job, about fixtures and about weaknesses of the machine. I will do a full write-up eventually.
Geoff

I've been interested in having my own CNC machine for quite a while.. I always thought they were way out of my reach (for a commercial product)..

I've been reading this site intently for the last few days...

I really like the idea of angle iron instead of pipe for a design, and I thought that perhaps the problem lay with the design of the trucks..

I've whipped up what I believe to be a rather flexable design that could solve the problems with flex and still keep a fair amount of side load capability..

of course, you'll have to forgive my rather crude drawing as my CAD experiance consists of downloading progeCAD today and working with it for 5 minutes or so :)

Datacop: Welcome to the 'zone.
Looks like an interesting idea, one to develop for a replacement to my current tubular rails. The imediate problem may be getting access to clean the inevitable dust off the rollers. With tubular rails there is more-or-less line contact and this presses dust out of the way to some extent.
Also what about irregularities on the surface of the angle-irons? Some of the black stuff kicking around my shop has the maker's name rolled in/on the inner surface.
Geoff P

Geoff,

Since the bearing runner angle iron isn't level, it would be a trivial task to hook up a small compressed air feed, say from an aquarium air pump to blow the track infront of the bearings..

you could even attack a small brush to skim the surface of the bearings as they roll along. Think of a small eyelash brush or a brush used to clean an electric shaver..

As far as small imperfections in the interior of the angle iron, it seems it would be a trivial task to just sand it down with a power drill and a sanding disk attachment. The only thing that has to be smooth and level would be the bearing contact track.

Datacop:
Aha! a man after my own heart. I use discarded toothbrushes to keep my leadscrews clean - one before and one after the nut.

I spent this past saturday working on my machine, and got some stuff worked out. I built the metal frame (please dont laugh at the welds :) They arent cleaned up yet). My dad took care of the wooden adjustment blocks. Here are a couple of pics of what we did saturday.

http://www.digital-exchange.net/users/john/coppermine/albums/cnc/DSCF0499_Small.jpg

http://www.digital-exchange.net/users/john/coppermine/albums/cnc/DSCF0500_small.jpg

Wolfmarsh,

I was chased out of the welding class at school (chair)
so a friend is welding mine ;)
compared to some of the welds I attempted to make, yours are very decent, even if you haven't cleaned them yet!

Oi! Has this thread come to a grinding halt??? No-one even discussed screw and bearing moountings yet...

My work is going slow. My next work weekend on this will be at the end of august, and depending on the heat, might be shorter than i like :).


I am to the point now where I will start piecing together the X-axis, which includes figuring out how to mount the threaded rod. Ill post more pics when I have some.

Any progress??

:wave:

Not much to speak of. I am grinding and smoothing welds on the weekends when I can.

The good news is that my wife and I finally bought a house with a garage and a workshed, so I will be able to work on the CNC without worrying about the 10 apartments around us.

I expect it to pick up dramatically around christmas time, ive taken the month of december off from work.

all of this is so excelent, but im sorry i just cant get into using wood for structrual members... I'm learning lots, and love the ideas that yall are having, and im sitting here sketching some of them down for slight modification into my own design... i just know that i have a tendancy to push my exuipment hard, so i'm going to have to build it out of something like 1/4" plate.. yes this will be heavy, and yes i relize that its going to limit my speed, but with the right design i should be able to cut 3/4" mdf or ply easily in one pass.. or aluminum, which is what i really want to work with... i like the pipe ideas, and i love all the different angle iron ideas, now i just gotta get off my hump and get out in the shop and start building something... i think that im going to build mine backwards tho... im going to get the z axis working, then build a y to attach that to, and then the x for that.. that way i know that i will have the travels that i want and i wont be limited by the stage below it.... just a thought process......

i'm looking to built cnc table for router and i want to cut aluminum.i was thinking where i can find a good plans. that's for 4x8 sheet
thank's alot

Hi;
When I started reading this post osrsite, I was thinking about building a small machine to cut about 10x 16 or so. I wanted to use cabnet hardware "drawers slides" Has that idea died? can any of you tell me where to get plans or ideas for thay type of machine?
Dan

Looking forward to getting to the electronics,everything seems to go dead after the mechanical build on most sites.Are we still going for the"cheap" option and building to a design & if so can the PC boards be sourced, hurry
up to get to this bit fella's

This will be my first posting. A friend and I have designed a CNC machine and have been building it for the last year and a half. The purpose of the machine, other than keeping us off the streets and out of the bars, is to machine wood and balsa parts for RC model airplanes. We call it the "Bed Rail Steel" CNC machine because the main tracks use steel angle from old bed rail sets. The main bearings are skate wheel bearings. It is a 3 axis machine x,y and z. The machine is built mostly out of junk surplus metal and other parts. We are almost complete with the construction and about to move on to the drive electronics then the computer program to drive it all. The machine is about 68 inches long by about 18 inches wide and the z axis has about 6 inches of travel. The z axis travel is about right for our purpose since we build the aircraft parts in 2 halves for making fiberglass molds.

Neither of us have any experence with CNC machines so most of our ideas are a little different. We searched the internet for ideas and decided to see just how cheap we could build a CNC machine and still accomplish the intended goal. Since the machine is for wood, balsa and foam we are shooting for 1/64 of an inch accuracy or there abouts.

The router motor we have selected is from Harbor Freight and has a long skinny shaft and is somewhat beefy. The router will mount on the cross slide and can be positioned vertical or +- 45 degrees from vertical. We will be using ball end bits for the finish work.

We have looked at a lot of projects on this forum for ideas and it has been most helpful. There is a lot of talent out there.

I will try to post a picture in a couple of weeks. We need to haul the machine out of the shop into the daylight for a good picture but the rainy weather hasn't made that possible as yet.

Jack and Nick
Edmonds, WA.

My wife and I finally moved into our new house mid-december, and the garage is finally starting to resemble a workshop.

Cant wait to get back on the CNC project.

I expect some progress around late january (frame complete).

Hi ALL

New guy here.

New to CNC.

I saw some plans for sale to build some simple CNC machines. The plans use easy
to get parts (hardware store).

I ran across this site
http://www.crankorgan.com/index.html

Dose anyone know of other plans along these lines (free would be cool).

Thanks
Clark
sgetty.ath.cx

I'm new here. I'm also pretty new to cnc. I took a course in beginning cam. All I really know is how to draw a little. Don't know how everything works or how it all works together. When I started on this site 2 weeks ago, I've been trying to learn everything I can. I've read the first 5 pages or so on this thread. Really neat stuff. I did some research as well. I went to Home Depot to find the drawer slides. I was really impressed. Full extension ball bearing. They are quite precise. The longest slides were 22in. at $15 for the pair. I played with it over and over imagining it being the router table. With the slides fully extended, there is no play in the slides. I plan to go this route for my first machine. I thought of the pipe thing but it will be to difficult of a build without help of a mill.

I've been to crankorgan.com. That's where I first thought of ideas to make a home made machine. There's lots off good ideas there. The thing is in order to make those machines, you're going to need axis to a mill or have parts made.

I've been to crankorgan.com. That's where I first thought of ideas to make a home made machine. There's lots off good ideas there. The thing is in order to make those machines, you're going to need axis to a mill or have parts made.


Which machines are you refering to that will involve the use of a mill to have parts made?
I have built one of his machines and have several plans and none of them involve use of a mill. His machines are actually among the most simple to construct.

Jason

Access to a milling machine is NOT required for John's designs.

I've built several, and while a mill is nice to use, I actually found it much more convenient to simply use a good drill press
I haven't been to his site in a few months, but his idea is to come up with designs that can be simply built using basic hand tools plus a vernier for his more complicated design.

I think you will find that the hardest parts of his older designs are going to be:
A) getting the Aluminium window channel (you may have to rework the design for what you can get)
And B) adjusting the beast for reasonable accuracy.

Personally (sp?) I found JGRO's design to be a more demanding build, but then I am not really setup for wood work, and John's beasts have alot of adjustment built into them.

HTH,

Iain

Well I guess you don't really need a mill. I just really want nice cutted pieces. I don't have anything to cut with. Maybe just a jigsaw.

Well - I have a good start on my DIY Router. And you can truely say it is a hardware store design. So far everything is from home Depot except for the stepper motors and controllers.

At some point I will post pictures.

Has anybody tried an I - beam

excuse the crude drawing

Xtal....

Go to the bottom of page 24 and download the gantry design there. Substitute your 'I' beam for the slide ways and you'll have a complete setup........

I experimented with I beam. I had bearings top,bottom and sides. The key to this setup is that the beam must be perfect and this is not always the case.

Jason

Dose anyone know of other plans along these lines (free would be cool).

Free?

Here's a few:http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&file=viewcategory&cid=2 ;)

Me and my friend Nick are making great progress on our "Bed Rail Steel" CNC router. All 3 axis are completed and we just recently finished installing the router. Currently we are working on the design and build for the three optical encoders for each of the 3 axis. In all 3 cases we are using 1/2 inch by 13tpi threaded rod driven by a geared belt drive and DC motors. We are using a lathe, mill and drill press in the construction which kind of takes it out of the hardware store design to some extent. Our design goal is for building wood and foam molds for building fiberglass parts for Radio Controlled model aircraft plus keeping the overall cost of the machine as low as possible. As it turns out it has developed into a great fun project in its own right.

Jack
Edmonds, WA

Hi I've been reading the talk about drawer slides. I built a 3axis machine from a scanner an old raven dotmatrix printer and yes you guessed it drawerslides for the z axis with a dremel tool as the spindle. It worked well enough to build a second drawer slide z axis for itself. I arranged the drawer slides for the z axis in a v pattern to increase the ridgidity maybe that was the trick.

My first design was an MDF/drawer-slide design that used four slides per axis. I built the Z-axis first and it is heavy as heck but I was pleased enough with the rigidity that I went ahead with the rest of the machine. I can feel absolutely no slop or play in any of the axis and they all move very smoothly. There's just one problem with it. There's no adjustment in any of the3 axis, and some of it is off just enough that it compelled me to move on to my next design - pipe and roller bearings - about 90% finished.

I just remembered an observation that I *think* some folks have overlooked. The difference between black pipe and galvanized is that the black is iron and the galvy is steel. It may seem trivial, but I believe the iron pipe is harder than steel. Is this true or am I mistaken?

Here's the real reason for this post: I've searched here for the terms "overhead" and "gantry" and found almost nothing related to overhead gantry designs (Like the Pipe Dream). Have they been dismissed out of hand? Am I missing something about them that makes them less desirable than moving table designs?

Steve in NM

The machine Nick and I are building uses an overhead moving gantry type approach. We also considered drawer slides as used on rack mounted electronic equipment but rejected them because of a lack of rigidity. The choice we made instead was "Bed Rail Steel" this stuff is available at most any used furniture store for very little cost. We configured all 3 movable machine axes to use the bed rail steel along with skate wheel bearings. So far the mechanical rigidity seems to be quite good for our purposes. The machine is nearing completion and soon all that will be left is to write the software and make it work....we hope.

Hello everyone, my first post here!

I have found some pretty decent steppers at this location www.allelectronics.com (some as low as $9 a piece). The ones i got for my first prototype are working quite nicely, so far. So i thought of sharing this.

Regards,

I am new to the group. I would like to build a CNC router that is strong enough to cut aluminum and brass and light passes on CRS. I would like the work to move along the y axis. With a solid frame supporting the x axis with the z moving along the x axis. Anyone built anything like this? Anyone with building ideas?
Thanks Ray

Hey guys, Im new to CNC and Ive only made a couple posts here. My goals for what I want to build are mostly in line with what got this thread going. Ive read almost all of the 400+ posts and Ive seen that the foundational criteria for design was discussed very early on but I am not sure if it has been set in stone. I have a decent design and CAD backround and Ive seen projects spin out of control when the basic requirements are not set down and adhered to when brainstorming takes place. There are some things I was thinking about as guidlines for what is to be expected from both the builder and the hardware supplier.

1- exactly what tools and machinery should be required? most poeple interested have some basic tools but if a drill press and table saw are absolutely required to acheive the designs discussed it should be stated as a design guidline. Frankly I think there are plenty of viable designs that a skil saw and a drill could do but its a matter of agreeing on what should be expected of the builder. Take a look at http://www.crankorgan.com/pipe.htm
Thats not too hard for an amature to pull off with basic tools.

2- I havnt seen a strict limit on the budget for this design. Early on there was mention of $500-1000 which seems reasonable but it should have a set limit and it should be kept as part of the agreed upon design criteria.

3- I think the largest cost area on this project will be the electronics end and I believe that there are many here who could help in creating a budget package outline with sources and specs. This would be especially helpful to me although I think Im not alone.

4- This is my 2 cents worth but I think the design should be as simple as possible baring the creation of a peice of crap. I believe that this project should give a new CNC junkie their first fix but not a whole lot more. The point is that once youve got this project under your belt taking on the more complex designs that are on this sight will be easy. Im talking KISS here.

Anyhoo...I will climb down off my soap box and keep listening.

Required Materials:

2x4's (If you cant find that you should be looking for food :) )
1x1's (buy or cut yourself)
Skateboard or Simmilar Bearings
3/4-1" Straight Rod (alu flagpoles work great there light strong and CHEAP)
4" Nuts, Bolts and washers
Threaded Rod (Maseonary Rod is dirt cheap and works great)
Threaded Rod Couplers (these are 2-3" long so there is no backlash)
Glue / Epoxy (Liquid Nails)

Tools:
Circular Saw
Drill
Square
Level
Misc hand tools

Step1:
Build a Table (size dosent matter as long as its pretty straight and ridged)

Step2:
Cut the 1x1 into pieces to fit the length of the table then glue them on to the table in a straight line 1 set on each side(Make sure the parallel and use a piece of string to ensure there straight if you dont have a straight edge)

Step3:
Cut the pole to fit the length of the table, drill holes at each end of the pole from the inside out and screw to the 1x1 and use some glue / epoxy on the underside to secure the middle (you should now have a table with a pole mounted on 1x1's)

Step3:
Cut some scrap into 2x4x4 pieces and mount at the mid point on the side of the table (now your table realy looks funny)

Step4:
This is where it gets interesting!
Cut some more scrap int 2x4x4 pieces, then cut an even ^ shape into the bottom of 4 of them. (This is a little tricky) Carefully Cut an opening at the top of the ^ so that a bearing can sit inside it. Drill a hole and mount a bearing in it. You should now have a 2x4x4 with a ^ and bearing hanging inside it, if you put it on the pipe you can see where im going with this, if all is well it should roll. OK now we need to keep it on the pole so take a pencil and mark where the pole sits in the ^ now drill holes and mount bearing on each angled side of the ^ (you will need to adjust the spaceing and angle to the size of your pipe, do this for all 4 pieces.

Step5:
With the ^ rollers now rolling nicely on the poles cut some more 2x4's and attach them all together to make a sliding table. (use the square)

Step5:
Cut and Attach 2 more 2x4 pieces and attach verticaly to the 2x4x4 pieces sticking out the side of the table. ( This is the start of the solid gantry)
P.S. Since using wood and scrap parts is bad enough we dont want to make a bad thing worse by have a sliding gantry, it would cut like pooo.

Step6:
Repeat Steps 3-5 to make the gantry.

Step7:
Install electronics, screw drives and of course you dremel / router.

Well that concludes my first post here since i just found this site, hope somebody found it to be usefull in some odd way.

:)
Allen

Thanks Allen,

You came in as post number 439 on this subject and I came a few weeks before you with the same attitude. The previous post happened about a month before mine. Im not sure what happened to this subject and I really thought it had a good head of steam based on the responses, but it appears the new comers are simply picking at the remains of a darned good idea that never happened. Has this issue taken form in another thread or did the dream of economical plans for a CNC router just petered out?

Ground control to anybody...

Yaknow what realy kills me, MDF, A cnc out of MDF??? WHY, WHY, WHY, this is quite possibly the worst material on the face of the planet to use, WHY you ask, MDF swells like theres no tommorow if you get it wet or even damp, so a few humid days and you now have a twizzler (whether you know it or not), as well as it has a tendency to crumble under pressure. Dont get me wrong wood will do the same thing (swell twist) but at least wood is porus so some water seal solves that problem and 2x4's are a lot cheaper and readily available.

I have over 4000 into my cnc and its still crap, needs to be adjusted every day, steel table (changes size every day), Steel Gantry (changes size every day), encoders (monitors the steps but dosent see the table changes so there almost useless), Slotted aluminum table top (warps because it dosent expand the same as the table), etc, ertc, etc...

point being that all the planning in the world and all the so called "good" equipment has problems as well, solution:
Build a cheap cnc (under 1000 total and put it in a dedicated room with temp and humidity control (add 400 +-) this is the only way to achieve professional results without resorting to selling your house to buy a machine.

I agree that MDF is a poor material for low tollerance work. There a multitude of problems that come with using it. One problem that it doesnt present is cost. Even with its drawbacks there have been many references of getting down to 1/32" repeatable tollerance using MDF based designs. I havent built a CNC router yet but Id be darned happy with that kind of accuracy. I think the point here is can we put our heads together and come up with a plan that gives the most bang for the buck and comes within usable tollerances. Lets not forget that this is a CNC wood router were talking about, not a machine capable of doing low tollerance machining. Theres some really sharp minds and well experienced members in this site, hopefully the direction that this thread was started on can get revived. This is a darned worthy cause and a good challenge for the people in this group. Im not quite capable of doing this all on my own but I will help with CAD dwgs or Solidworks models and I have a decent design backround. Im willing to try, anybody else still care?

I think that part of the problem with this post losing steam is that it became unorganized.

Make a new thread and start over but with guidelines!

Check out http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39501

This is the bona fide hardware store build. The only components that are not found in a hardware store are the lovejoy couplers and the skate bearings. I'm sure the couplers can be fabricated out of some device in one of the aisles.

Yup, I'm using MDF. I love the stuff, but I'm not putting it out in the rain, it's inside my tiny climate controlled apartment (actually in the bathroom). Also, MDF has an incredibly high modulus of elasticity, even higher than hdpe, so I like it for the lack of flex, especially the 3/4" stuff. Disclaimer: I'm a hobbist.

So, check it out an tell me what you think. Is this the quienticential hardware store build? http://www.BuildYourCNC.com

The best solution to using a router to make multiple copies of a pattern is to use a collar mounted to the router base and an appropriate bit. The pattern needs to be under sized to accommodate the collar. If you imagined drawing a boarder around the part that was equal to ½ the difference between the collar diameter ant the bit diameter, that would be the size of your pattern. Then you can make as many trips around the pattern as it takes to cut whatever thickness of material you have.

Steve

this is the first time I have posted have read a few articles and posts about cnc router homebuilt machines I am now retired ex toolmaker with tendancy to over engineer designs I would love to see some pics of some of the suggestions of draw sliders being used to guide I am also keen to build a machine for myself but forced retirement left me with little funds to play with plenty of time and enthusiasm you guys sound as if your having plenty of fun regards to all shiney

Hello All

I've had a quick read of this forum. I think it's a blast I enjoy doing exactly what you are trying to do build a CNC machine as inexpensively as possible. Attached are a few pictures of my $50 CDN mini mill and the Z-Axis I built with it. Hope this inspires you to go ahead and give it a whirl. :D

Forgive me if I missed it, I just did a quick scan of the thread.
I was wondering if anyone had ever tried using a screw drive from a garage door opener to drive an axis? I wonder how the acuracy compares to threaded rod or belt drive home systems.

I was searching the sears.com web site looking for a part and saw this item -

Craftsman 8 ft. Rail Extension Kit for Craftsman Screw Drive Garage Door Openers $19.99

Very interesting cnc build. Your Z axis is pretty neat.

I'll have to get back into CNC this fall when things start cooling off!

Mike...

Hello All

I've had a quick read of this forum. I think it's a blast I enjoy doing exactly what you are trying to do build a CNC machine as inexpensively as possible. Attached are a few pictures of my $50 CDN mini mill and the Z-Axis I built with it. Hope this inspires you to go ahead and give it a whirl. :D

Hey Mike, welcome back! Your thread is still alive.

Steve

Thanks,

I'll have a lot of catching up to do...

If you're wondering what I've been up to, sneak a peek at my forum. (It's in my Profile) It's only too bad that my CNC machine isn't big enough to cut the sides for it.

Mike...

Hey Mike, welcome back! Your thread is still alive.

Steve

Thanks for the compliment Mike. I wanted people to see that drawer slides are a viable way of providing linear motion inexpensively. In order to over come some of the flex problems with drawer slides I mounted them at 30deg so that the angle between the drawer slides is 150deg this makes the Z-Axis on the "frankin mill" the most ridgid of the the axies. "don't know how to spell the plural of axis" I understand the black pipe method is very effective but setting up the bearings seems very labour intensive. With that in mind I tried drawer slides and am quite happy with them.

Good to have you back Mike. That's some obsession you have there, over 9000 posts, wow.

Do we see a monster cnc in the works, one that can cut 12'x7' maybe? :)

Jason

OK start the ball rolling on a hardware store design CNC router.

Hi;
I am looking at the possibility of building a CNC router table to do Ice carvings. The single block measures about 11"x22"x42" and weighs about 300 pounds. Do you have any ideas?

sam_sannie@yahoo.com

Hi all,
I'm building my own hardware store CNC router with drawer rails, just for experimenting and learning. However I find difficult to find a good place to purchase stepper motor in Montreal (or whole Canada!). Most suppliers are in the USA, and I really don't like ending to deal with the customs. Any hints where I could get my stuff?

Thank you in advance!
Harlock

Hi all,
I'm building my own hardware store CNC router with drawer rails, just for experimenting and learning. However I find difficult to find a good place to purchase stepper motor in Montreal (or whole Canada!). Most suppliers are in the USA, and I really don't like ending to deal with the customs. Any hints where I could get my stuff?

Thank you in advance!
Harlock

What about EBay?

Hi all
Another possible for the drive shafts is the acme threaded rod from
a car jack, up to two feet long and you get a nut thrown in. some of these
have had little if any use and are in new condition. keep up the good work

Got Plans, Pictures etc....?

Thanks

What about EBay?

I looked through Ebay and most of the sellers are from the USA. Now with the Canadian-USA exchange rates, things would have been interesting, but I just hate dealing with customs taxes. Bummers.

I've found a pretty good deal here in Montreal. I ended up purchasing 5 servo with integrated microstepping drivers. The supplier had them as leftover from a customer who was supposed to purchase them years ago. Now they're discontinued, but they're perfect for me. They're supposed to put 239 in-oz.

I don't have pictures yet. All I have built for now is the X table out of drawer slides and anti-backlash nut.

p.s.: DON'T use birch plywood. I though it would have made a nice rigid frame, but now it's all bent and chips like hell when drilling through. I bet MDF would have made a better job.

Hi all
Another possible for the drive shafts is the acme threaded rod from
a car jack, up to two feet long and you get a nut thrown in. some of these
have had little if any use and are in new condition. keep up the good work


BRILLIANT! I have been wracking my brain trying to think how I can get my z axis going on the cheap.. that's just genius. :) I'd have not thought of that one on my own. thanks for the tip!

Horsedorf

Another possible for the drive shafts is the acme threaded rod from a car jack, up to two feet long and you get a nut thrown in.

Good idea.
I have probably passed by lots of car jacks the last few years.
Never really considered it, well vaguely perhaps.
You opened my eyes, they will not get passed me now, without a good check for suitability :-)

Steal I beams are incredibly variable. The standard for structural steel straightness is within 1/8” per foot. Aluminum is better but I can’t find the standard right now.

Ok guys, I'm seriously thinking about going with the "Rockcliff" large flying gantry model with 288 oz stepper motors. I've asked some questions of Rockcliff and Nick was very quick to respond. Has anyone built the large gantry model yet? How does it do and what (if any) suggestions do you have?

Thanks

I am also working on a drawer slide design. I agree that rigidity is the most important factor, and that drawer slides may not be rigid enough for the Z axis. I had to double up the drawer slides so that when one was extended, the other was retracted. My machine is a moving table machine also.

See more info at www.gosnelldesign.com

Ive heard from other sites, that some people use the parts out of old printers, and the drive system and rails ou tof them. Is this true?

Is there an open source set of plans for a mill I could use to create things from 3d files? like costume parts, or props? Most of the ones Ive seen have a very small depth.

I have found that on the newer inkjet printers, less of the stuff is useful. The metal rods can be used, but are very short (<12") and in newer printers there is only one.

The bearings are very flimsy, and especially in the lowest cost printers, they don't use stepper motors any more, but have a dc motor with a feedback counter wheel or strip to act as a servo control. While the power supplies may be 30V, they are only .5 Amp.

Ive found on many projects getting to the circuit card, and trying to build it is the biggest hinderance!

If I was a computer engineer, Id try tackling it, but Id rather buy the card prebuilt like the one on instructables.com If I could. I hate dealing with the elexctronic circuit cards.

ok, first post on CNCZONE. I am a very experienced cabinet man and computer geek.

There is only one choice for drawer slides IMHO...and thats K&V:
http://www.usacabinethardware.com/cgi-bin/usastore.pl?a=di&pid=641-8400-22
Anything less than 20" would be worthless IMHO.
The problem with slides is that vibration from cutting can throw the table one direction or another at least 1/64th to even an 1/8th depending on how tight you got your mounting...too tight=high resistance on your motor=more accuracy.

Too much play for me. But the KV's are what u want.

There are slides that have more of a v-shape and more bearings without the plastic bearing holders, but they are mostly for cash-drawers. Salvage a pair of 12-14" slides from a cash register/drawer, or plan on going over budget.

*Shrug*

PM²

p.s. there is a point when you pull the slide that the resistance changes on a full-extension, i guarantee you gonna get a jog in your workpiece in the same spots...all the time.

Ive heard from other sites, that some people use the parts out of old printers, and the drive system and rails out of them. Is this true?
Pick an old one. Wire matrix printers from the 80's were built like tanks, and they got nice sized steppers in them too.

I took apart several old electric typewriters from the mid -80's and found small to medium stepper motors and good power supplies. Try to find the professional type of typewriters from IBM, XEROX, etc...

The IBM power supply I have now is very rugged and provides +12, -12, +34 VDC !

This is my first post in the forum. I hope this can help. I was reading about using drawerslides as guides and this is mi experience. I built a 47x20 inches router table and as main gantry guide I use the sliders like 'patm1970' shows in the link. I used 4 of them in each side welded together to make a long one. If anybody want so see my machine I posted photos in the gallery (search under rodyoca). The machine works very well, I have no play and the gantry slides smoth and straight.

Hi,
This is my first visit and first post in the forum.
I see that's wonderful.

Sorry for my english.

I confess to not reading all 40 pages...but I did make a dent. :)

Has anyone considered utilizing an old HP scanner for components? These things are built like a tank and I often see them free on Freecycle.org.

I confess to not reading all 40 pages...but I did make a dent. :)

Has anyone considered utilizing an old HP scanner for components? These things are built like a tank and I often see them free on Freecycle.org.

...or even components from an old plotter? Bigger motors, rails, guides, longer travel. Multiple manufacturers of those things too. You should be able to find one or two being dumped by some local business.

...or even components from an old plotter? Bigger motors, rails, guides, longer travel. Multiple manufacturers of those things too. You should be able to find one or two being dumped by some local business.

There are some very large plotters made. A friend had one several years ago and it had a bed something like four to five feet long. Unfortunately I didn't take it off his hands and he gave it to someone else.

Dear Sir ,I amCivil Engineer,
I am new in this filed ,I can arrange frame and Motors ,
but I do have the electonic parts and software.
can help me to get the softwares and panels.
also please tell me what I need more than the mentioned parts.
BEst regards
Haval A.Sadiq
please send emails to me in haval@engoff.com

Haval,
I personally am running TurboCNC from DAK engineering, which runs under DOS. If you can arrange the motors, and build or buy the electronics (interfaced through the computers parallel port), then a computer running TurboCNC or equivalent will drive the machine. Once you get the machine moving correctly you'll need some G code to tell it what to do. Most people here export it in some way from a CAD/CAM program, but you can write simple routines from a simple text editor. Good luck!

Dear Sir ,I amCivil Engineer,
I am new in this filed ,I can arrange frame and Motors ,
but I do have the electonic parts and software.
can help me to get the softwares and panels.
also please tell me what I need more than the mentioned parts.
BEst regards
Haval A.Sadiq
please send emails to me in haval@engoff.com

Dear bisclavret
I can arrange the motors and also the frame
can you list what I need exactly,
what I mean after assembling the motors to frame How I can control thriugh PC
regards

I'm using 1/2 inch 13tpi rods for x/y
whin I manually jog a distance on my Y axis 20-30 inches I come up
short about 1/8" ,,, It doesn't sound like I'm loosing steps ??? but maybe
this is the axis with the larger motor /gantry etc

My question is ? Is 13 tpi really 13 tpi or is it 13.05 or 13.1 ??????


For rails I am using 3/4 conduit with hardwood spacers

I may later use chainlink fence post or corner posts for rails

biggest problems I have had is where to get cheap/decent thrust bearings

see pictures @

http://webpages.charter.net/msw101144/cnc-pic/

does anyone know if omniturn lathe software, which is a dos based system, will work with a harbor freight-style lathe conversion?

Here is a light duty thrust bearing design using mostly hardware store parts for #2, #4, #6, #8, #10, 1/4" and 3/8" allthread lead screws. The total parts cost for a 10-32 thrust bearing is $0.24.

2 Nylon Shoulder Washers
2 Stainless Steel Lock Nuts with Nylon Inserts
2 Stainless Steel Internal Tooth Lock Washers

I bore a thru hole in the end plate that is .020" larger than the shoulder of the shoulder washer. My end plate is powder coated aluminum plate which makes a nice bearing surface. I then assemble a shoulder washer, internal tooth lock washer and lock nut on each side of the end plate. I tighten it down hard...until the lock washer teeth embed in the nylon shoulder washer. I then back off the nuts until the lead screw just turns freely, but with no axial movement. If done right, the shoulder washers will turn against the end plate. A little radial movement is OK with me, but a purest would disagree.

I've been told it won't last long, but I'm not running 24-7 and besides, at $0.24 each, who cares.

I got all my parts at www.smallparts.com because my local hardware store does not have a good selection of nuts and bolts.

Acetal or PTFE filled Delryn would be better than Nylon, but you can't beat the price and availability of Nylon.

The consistency of allthread rod purchased from the same batch is pretty good. But when I compare allthread rods purchased from different sources, I get as much as 1/2 a thread difference in 3". My 10-32 is actually 10-32.167. That results in a .005" position error per inch.

Most ACME lead screws, spec pitch error at .007" per foot or better. Thats 0.0006" error per inch or less.

It's one difference between $2 and $20 per lead screws.

Okay, so do internet hardware stores count? If so i'd use reid tool or surplus8020 for the structure, and I think Reid tool has linear bearings

If you don't need more than 3 feet of travel I used drill rod. I lucked out and the linear bearings I used fit. Also the y axis was rails from printers and they also supplied the bushings and stepper motors. Even ran across a few 293 driver chips in some. Helps if you have friends in recycling electronics as it is nice to get matching parts. Travel on the one I built was 18" x 22" and 5 inch drop (z).