I requested this Forum as information about this machine was all over the place and it made sense to provide a place to keep it organized and easier to find.

I purchased an Industrial Hobbies Gearhead Mill in November of 2004, BIGGER IS BETTER!. The dovetail square column Z axis is a delight to use.

If you are looking around trying to decide what bench top machine to buy - make sure you purchase a square column mill - once you use one you won't even consider a round column mill!

I lapped the ways on this machine. Every time I crank the lead screws I'm impressed at how smooth moves are now and the power feed isn't growling anymore.

I won't do a CNC conversion on this machine, it's too valuable to me as a manual machine due to the inch leadscrews and long table.

I just completed my mini gantry mill and R8 mini mill spindle projects largely in part to my IH mill. It's now time to learn the programming end of things.

My next major CNC project is to learn how to use my new TORMACH PCNC1100 CNC machine.

I highly recommend this book:
A really good book for hobbyists like me. It includes a demo version of MASTERCAM:
Machining and CNC Technology by Michael Fitzpatrick
ISBN 0-07-829860-1

I hope Industrial Hobbies mill users and prospective owners find this Forum helpful.

Tell us about your machine and what your doing with it, your likes and dislikes, your modifications to improve the machine and make everyone's life a little easier for Industrial Hobbies "Big Mill" owners.

Mike

This is a touchy subject. As an amateur gunsmith I am used to lapping various components to obtain smoother operation. When I purchased my Harbor Freight gearhead mill I stoned the ways to improve the contact surfaces and was satisfied with the results, I still am 2 years later.

I like to run my gibbs on the tight side and my new Industrial Hobbies Big Mill (November 2004) was really tough going with many tight spots along the ways. The power feed would grunt and growl thru those spots and it became a distraction to the point of being unbearable. After reading and rereading the instructions on the Industrial Hobbies web site several times over 6 months I decided to lap the ways on my IH mill. It really runs smooth now under power feed with a lot less power needed. The difference is amazing. I am also impressed with how much better the gibbs lock. I recommend anyone lapping the ways to take your time and leave the dovetails alone except for maybe a little 600 or 800 grit. Locate and follow the directions EXACTLY for lapping the ways on the Industrial Hobbies website. If Aaron says 50 strokes, 60 strokes is not better!

I also made the Y axis mod to increase Y axis travel. I did the Y axis mod on my HF gearhead mill a couple of years ago and was suprised at how often I used the extra travel. If you own one of the gearhead mills this mod is worth the effort. You can see this mod in the pictures below.

Pictures:
BLUE - Industrial Hobbies gearhead mill with lapped Y axis ways
BURGUNDY - Harbor Freight gearhead mill with stoned Y axis ways (high spots removed with an india oil stone)

Next on the agenda for me is lapping the column ways and maybe the slide mod. I use my mill for manual operations, I don't know if the slide mod will offer me any improvement or not. Next time I talk to Aaron I'll ask.

Aaron really knows his machine! There is a wealth of information on his (Industrial Hobbies) website about modifications and conversions for the gearhead machines that is unequalled anywhere else. Really good articles on how to use offsets, fixtures, clamping methods, building a wet bench, using flood coolant, setting up tooling, what kind of oil to use in a gearhead mill and why. There are lots of pictures of the various mods and step by step instructions on how to do them.

I recommend Industrial Hobbies and appreciate the extra effort Aaron has taken to keep us informed. There are many companies out there selling CNC technology and IH is one of the better ones.

Mike

That mill is begging for CNC... It looks like a nice piece!

Hello Mike I purchased mine in April of this year and just in the last month got it up and running and now working on converting it to CNC (almost done with the power supply). This will be my first conversion and after I am done with this one I plan on a large router table...... Glad to be a part of the community.

Hi Nono,


Are you using a kit for your conversion or doing it on your own? The power supply is about the easiest part for me.

I am waiting for the right set of ball screws (precision ground) to come along to start my HF conversion, I have the servos, Gecko's, controller and power supply already. I need to become more comfortable with CNC operations before running a bigger machine.

I went the other way around, I built the gantry machine first "Mike's Mini Gantry Mill".


Welcome to the land of the Blue Big Mill.

Mike

I plan on doing the conversion on my own. My power supply is 3 in one (6.5 amps per motor) and stuffed into a Drawer :eek: (really). I went to school for machining and used to run a CNC laser for Roadmaster Inc so most of this isn't that new to me. I just forgot most of what I learned. I am starting over with this smaller conversion and that should refresh my mind enough to take on a larger machine. BTW that is a cool mill. Do you get much deflection on the Z axis?

There are people on this website that have forgotten more than I will ever learn about Machine and CNC Technology, like yourself. I'm just a hobbyist machinist, I've taken a few college classes on Machine Technology and Gibbscam. I aspire to learn a little more and have learned a lot about what doesn't work.

The Z axis is a little bouncy, the 20 pound spindle helps some in that department. I measured the amount of deflection in all the axis's and was shocked at the results, I could move the machine +/- .010"+ in every direction by pushing and pulling on the gantry! The moving gantry is the bigest problem, the height of the gantry bridge amplifies the minimal play in the linear bearings (like a long lever). I thought the problem was the structural material wasn't rigid enough and went off in a tangent of extremes until I performed this simple test.

I took a spring scale and placed a 1/2" collet and a 1/2" piece of drill rod in the spindle, then I pulled on the piece of drill rod with 25 pounds of tension and measured the deflection of the spindle housing with a dial indicator. The results were as follows:

On my Industrial Hobbies mill .005" - .007" on the X, .005" - .004" on the Y and .002" (up) - .006" (down) on the Z
On my Harbor Freight gearhead mill --about the same-- the Z has a little more movement +/- .002"
On a Bridgeport mill at the college --nothing-- (that's why they weigh 3,000 pounds)
On my mini gantry mill .007" - .009" on the X, .005" - .005" on the Y, and .011" (down) - .018" (up) on the Z

This gave me clues to what was happening and where. After adding a crossbrace to the top of the gantry, tightening up some of the linear bearing pillow blocks in the X axis and adding the 20 pound spindle instead of the rotary tool all of the axis's pretty much are in the +/- .005-6" ball park with 25 pounds of force. The most important part is that they all return to "0" when the force is removed. The structural qualities of my mini gantry mill will never equal the brute strength of the other machines. Major deflections are possible with this design under extreme conditions. If I keep the cutting tool doing it's job and don't push the capabilities it works well.

Thanks for asking Nono, I've been dying to tell someone that story!

More pictures in my gallery.

Mike

An Update to this post.

I recently discovered a major design problem with my little machine's Z axis. Nono's observation was correct; the long unsupported linear rods allow major deflection (.070") if the Z carriage is in the middle of the travel range. I plan to replace the linear rod with some THK SHS15 linear rails and blocks soon. I never invisioned this little machine would have a 2.5 HP spindle on it. The power is awsome! It's wierd watching two 1/2" linear rods twist .070 " from the torque of a 1/4" 2 flute endmill grabbing a chunk of 6061. :p

Another bump in my road, still learning what doesn't work.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I was surprised at the deflections you measured on the IH mill. Any thoughts on how to minimize them?

Best regards - Roy

That's why they don't weigh 3,000 pounds and cost $15,000.

Don't worry Roy, your machine will work great! Mine does.

Don't forget -- pictures!\

Mike

Caught in the middle.

I knew that my post on lapping the ways on my Industrial Hobbies Big Mill would bring out the naysayers on that subject, I expected it.

The pros are right of course; the training that a journeyman machinist goes thru is intensive and extensive, hard learned and can take 10 years or more (mostly more) to be at the “Master” level. I don’t take the advice of any master craftsman lightly, they have earned the respect they are due. Professionals must earn their salary and some more for the shop overhead to be successful and remain employed. Only the best machine tools, accessories, hand tools and instruments are prudent for the pros as time is money!

What’s a hobbyist to do?

As a hobbyist I’m forced to make choices that a pro wouldn’t even need to consider.
My hobby shop machine tool area is 10’ wide and 18’ long with 3 doors.
Bench top machines are all I have room and budget for.
My machine use time can be measured in hours per month.
Most of my work is non critical in the .005” tolerance range with an occasional .001” requirement.
My measuring tools will be used frequently, not continuously.
I can afford to learn the basics of CNC with a converted bench top mill drill.
I can’t even think about a Haas tool room CNC mill (I can dream).
My projects are a joke to a tradesman and a joy for me.

By necessity, most of my machine tool, accessory and measuring tool purchases are Chinese products due to cost. It isn’t that I prefer them to US, English, German or Japanese products it’s that I can afford them.

The manufacturing tolerances of these machine tools are dismal at best; Moglice coated, hard chromed, flame or induction hardened ways? You have got to be kidding! Aged, cast iron castings? Maybe 7 days! Deburred edges – no way! Angular contact spindle bearings, nope! Raw machined or ground surfaces with no cleaning off the swarf or casting sand before final assembly, DEFINITELY! Milling machine tables that are not flat - with .005” - .012” dips and twists, voids and t-slots that a t-nut or t-bolt wont pass thru – yes! This is the reality of the hobby machinist.
A master machinist tradesman would have departed the scene in horror long before getting this far.

Having said all of that, it is truly amazing what some hobbyists are doing with these machines. Some have actually become Industrial Hobbyists. --- Not me, I’m just a hobby machinist. --- :stickpoke

I hope you guys can take a little sarcasm. :rolleyes:

Mike

The pros are right of course; the training that a journeyman machinist goes thru is intensive and extensive, hard learned and can take 10 years or more (mostly more) to be at the “Master” level. I don’t take the advice of any master craftsman lightly, they have earned the respect they are due. Professionals must earn their salary and some more for the shop overhead to be successful and remain employed. Only the best machine tools, accessories, hand tools and instruments are prudent for the pros as time is money!


I am a journeyman tool maker from the late 70's I serverd my apprenticeship in a tool and die shop in Michigan that was basicly a Bridgeport/surface grinder stamping die operation. An old toolmaker told me if I could do good work on the old and then wornout stuff in there I could do it anywhere. I then moved up to a government operation that had everything you could want, from large heavy mills and big lathes to B&S ID/OD grinders and Moore jig borers and grinders. He was right, if you learn to do it right the equipment just makes it easier!

I now am just getting back into the machining as a hobby, I have to say the people around here have the right attitude of determination to do it right and accomplish with what they have. Mike you have the right attitude.

:cheers: to all the great hobby machinists and professionals that grace this place.

DieGuy,

Thanks for the kind words. I must say you also have the right attitude.

For all of us hobbyists (Hobby Machinists) it's all about having fun, right! :banana:

DieGuy,

Where did you get the cool Avatar?

Having said all of that, it is truly amazing what some hobbyists are doing with these machines. Some have actually become Industrial Hobbyists. --- Not me, I’m just a hobby machinist. ---



Mike

I just realized that I would need to get rid of my IH mill to be "just a hobby machinist" therefore I have no choice, I am an Industrial Hobbyist.

DieGuy,

Where did you get the cool Avatar?


heck I don't remember, just ran across it on the web someplace.

Personally Like like these also
http://members.cox.net/dshiels/images/Pee.gif
or
http://members.cox.net/dshiels/images/insanity.gif
By the way, I have 2 harleys, a 1983 FXDG 80th aniversary model and a 2003 FLSTCI heritage Softail classic 100 year aniversary. Bought both of then new from the dealers.

The 1983 shovel head keeps me busy with repairs, like all old harleys should, and the 2003 is flawless and never need a wrench.

The 1983 shovel head keeps me busy with repairs, like all old harleys should, and the 2003 is flawless and never need a wrench.

I had bikes in the 60's, 70's, and mid 80's. Triumphs, Yamahas, Suzuki's, Moto Guzzi's and a Honda. I was in a head-on accident in 1970 that broke my back in 3 places. I have been in continuous pain since then. I loved the feeling of freedom you get riding and melting all your worries away mile by mile. The Triumph was famous for quitting as soon as it left the city limits (Lucas Electrics). I used to ride with a bunch of Harley folks in San Diego every Sunday on my Moto Guzzi. Those days are over for me, I remember them well.

I had a feeling you were a Harley Guy, Keep the rubber side down.

P.S. Let me know if you find something with fishing, shooting or machine tech

Mike

I had a feeling you were a Harley Guy, Keep the rubber side down.

P.S. Let me know if you find something with fishing, shooting or machine tech

Mike

yeah been riding now for OMFG 36 years. My first was a harley sprint 350 made in Italy. had a few honda's 2 until I could actualy afford a Harley. (not cheap then and not cheap now!). Sorry to hear about your accident. I have only been down once but close calls are out there all the time. I have become a very defensive rider now, wasn't in the past and it cost me some road rash.

Now let's talk firearms! http://members.cox.net/dshiels/Chain_20Gun.gif

Most of my friends kinda drive like this.

Some of them end up like this.

Here are some for the RC guys

Well guys, my wife of 31 years is certain I'm ready for electroshock treatments. I laughed for at least 20 minutes non-stop when I saw the post with the chain gun. That is just way too cool :cool: :cool: :cool:. I was going to use it for my avatar and decided that I really didn't want a visit from the FBI with the crap that's going on these days.
I've been a competitive shooter for over 30 years and a hobby gunsmith for the last 5. We have shooting friends in Barstow that this will tickle to no end. I can't wait to send it to them.

Nono - Nono - DieGuy - you guys have too much time on your hands

this one seems a bit happier! May be he is more to your liking! ;)
http://members.cox.net/dshiels/shoot.gif

I had a conversation with Aaron Moss at Industrial Hobbies today. There are some exciting new features and products coming in the future. I'm not going to steal Aaron's thunder here; however, it will get pretty exciting for IH owners soon.

Stay tuned,

Mike

Here are some for the RC guys

Very nice! I like those.

Hi eveyone , im new to this site , have been here quite a few times and
it has helped me decide on finally buying one ih mill from aaron a few months back. due to a "slight knee seperation, haha" from a dirtbike stint i finally am
able to begin working on the mill now and have finished lapping the ways
, working on a bench now to assemble it on since it is easier to move in
pieces .

i have a ? for mikeaber
are these updates you say are coming from aaron only included in new machines?

did anyone bother to clean up the casting sand and sludge on the inside
of the column like i did?? i didn't find it very much fun, is this cleaning overkill
i didn't want any grit landing on the z-screw.

this is a great site ! thanks

i have a ? for mikeaber
are these updates you say are coming from aaron only included in new machines?
this is a great site ! thanks


Hi KEYTEEM,

As far as I know none of the importers of these Chinese machines are cleaning up anything for you. All of the machines are "as built". I own a Smithy 1324 3-in-one machine, Harbor Freight gear head mill, and an Industrial Hobbies mill. All of them had casting sand in them, the Smithy had about 2 cups of sand in the gearbox!

KEYTEEM has a good point here. You need to completely disassemble all machine tools manufactured in China and clean all the dirt, sand, swarf nasty grease and oil from the machine. If your machine came with oil in it change the oil.

I didn't mention anything about updates.

There will be some options available for existing and new machines and some services that may become available. What is interesting to me is more how-to information will be posted at the website and performance improvement information.

I'm going to wait for Aaron to tell the world his plans.

Mike

Hi All,
I'm about to begin some adventures into the IH world and I need some outside thoughts on my ideas.

Okay, it's not a Bridgeport, doesn't cost that much, doesn't weigh that much.
But,,,, my shop is in my garage; concrete floor, concrete block walls. Would I improve the performance/deflections characteristics of the IH by building the table from highly reinforced concrete bonded to the wall and then also anchoring the column to the wall.

I know concrete cures forever almost, but how much would it actually move?
Would tile grout addatives help the concrete? And along those lines would it help to imbed a piece of countertop granite,(1-1/4"), a bit larger than the base of the machine?
I know the wall attachment would need some thought, so as not to warp the column in any way and still reinforce it, but I'm sure it can be done.

The wall and table would be a great start for a super coolant containment box; the table could be troweled to give runoff paths.
Does all this sound off base?

Appreciate your thoughts,
Jerry

Ozzie

I don't know about this specfic mill but in industry I once had involvment in many machines where put on thick granite slabs. Often these where pink granite suface plates. This was done for high precision inspection equipment also.

These where mostly high precison CNC lathes some unitized units sitting on blocks. Others fabricated out of synthetic "granite" with bolted on slide assemblies. Now you may ask how well did this work out as we had some machines without the mass underneath them. I would say the results are mixed especially if the mass isn't an integral part of the machine.

So for the column I would not expect significnat results unless the coupling was really close and stiff. It might be more worthwhile to find out how they or what they make the synthetic machine bases and surface plates out of and fill the column with that. Of course you have to deal with the z drive.

I've given some tohougt to the use of concrete in fabing my own machines. There is a bit of history doing this you know. You do have to consdier though that concrete is porus so you will need to seal it in some manner. Aging is another issue I know that manufactures don't even reccomend placement of a machine on a foundation until an extended curing time has passed. Interestingly enough there are a couple of books available on making concrete kitchen counter tops and other house hold items that may be of interest. With a bit of help you can cast the concrete in open top molds and achieve a bit of complexity. The need for help really comes when it is time to move and palce the concrete. I could see where this could be extneded for just about any machine component. That is givne that you understnad the nature of concretes mechanical properties.

Dave

I don’t see any practical way to make a bench top hobby machine into an industrial floor model with concrete or any other material.

If deflection is an issue use a smaller cutter and make a finishing pass. A 1/2" endmill is a large cutting tool for bench top machines.

Mounting equipment on granite surface plates or synthetic granite would improve thermal and long term dimensional stability. The accuracy or deflection values of the machines wouldn’t be improved, however, the equipment would remain in alignment much longer resulting in longer production runs between maintenance and alignment cycles.

I don’t see any practical way to make a bench top hobby machine into an industrial floor model with concrete or any other material.

This is certainly true in the sense that a desktop machine will never be able to do what a 40 year old Bridgeport can do. However a desktop machine in many cases lacks mass and connecting it to and aditional mass can be an improvement.


If deflection is an issue use a smaller cutter and make a finishing pass. A 1/2" endmill is a large cutting tool for bench top machines.

I agree that is likely would be dificult to impact deflection in a signifcant way but you may be able to impact vibration in a more productive way. That is by bolting or bracing the up right box column of some of the desktop mills. At least a few people have web sites claiming that such modificaitons do help, at least on the smaller X3 type mills. For an X3 and its thin box column this pretty much stands as a given.

For the larger box column mills though I suspect that it would be more difficult to get good results. Or get results that justify the expense.


Mounting equipment on granite surface plates or synthetic granite would improve thermal and long term dimensional stability. The accuracy or deflection values of the machines wouldn’t be improved, however, the equipment would remain in alignment much longer resulting in longer production runs between maintenance and alignment cycles.

Well yes and no. If you mount a set of ways directly on a "granite" plate then you will impact deflection values relative to mouning them on supports at either end. If you mount a machine that has feet at each end of the ways then I agree with you. the additional mass can be helpful in controlling vibration also. Vibration Generated by the machine or external influences.

Probably what I did not make clear is that just dropping a machine on a large mass of whatever is at best going to give you a very modest improvement. Making the mass a more integral part of the machine and you end up with different results.

Thanks
Dave