The shop I work at has multiple CAD/CAM systems including expensive / high-end Gibbs 2004 and inexpensive / low end BOBCAD-CAM V18.

I would like to know why BOBCAD-CAM blows Gibbs 2004 geometry creation away (except for Gibbs Geometry Expert which I really like.) and yet release after release of Gibbs nothing is done to fix this.

Why do Gibbs users / owners accept this situation as ok and tolerate it ?

BTW, it's really nice to finally have control over posting in Gibbs... I have not used Gibbs in years. I'm still amazed at how many shops I run into that have old versions of Gibbs and are still pissed off over having to pay $200 per post. One I'm aware of refused to upgrade and they do no geometry creation at all in Gibbs. They only have the lathe module... they chose to go with Hypermill running inside of AutoCAD instead.

I wish Gibbs would fix the geometry creation problem. I can see no reason why an add-in that raises a tool palette can't be created by a third party developer and included with Gibbs V8.

Anyone else agree with me on this ?

jon

I agree completely. Gibbs geometry creation drives me nuts. I’d like to know why, when deleting a line segment or arc, Gibbs displays the original complete line or circle? Likewise, why can’t I just create a line segment or an arc, without having to merge entities? I mostly work In Pro/e and the first CAM package that comes out with parametric geometry creation (similar to Pro/e Sketcher) will get my business regardless of price!
FWIW I don’t like Pro/NC.

Are you all posting any of this on GibbsCAM's message board? The newsgroup is watched closely by the developers, and Bill Gibbs.
The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
http://supportbb.gibbscam.com/viewforum.php?f=3

Are you all posting any of this on GibbsCAM's message board? The newsgroup is watched closely by the developers, and Bill Gibbs.
The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
http://supportbb.gibbscam.com/viewforum.php?f=3


The absolute worst way I know of to get change in Gibbs is to ask for it
in a hidden private web forum !

The only thing that really gets Bill Gibbs attention is loss
of sales... this is the reason Gibbs now has Post Haste.
Not having what every other CAD/CAM system had for years
(the ability to edit or create a post) was costing Gibbs
sales. For years I did my level best to apply as much
pressure to Gibbs as possible in this area including working
with others a large companies to deny Gibbs sales until this
issue was addressed. From what has been reported to me it
had an effect and resulted in Post Haste.

I believe if one wants traditional geometry creation tools in
Gibbs, like I have suggested by utilizing the Plug-In
approach, which would raise a pallet of traditional geometry
creation tools, then the best way I know of to accomplish this
goal is to support a credible independent web forum like this one on
www.cnczone.com and keep talking about why better geometry
tools are needed in Gibbs. For years Gibbs and Associates has
made the excuse that were a CAM system. Like the Gibbs policy
of refusing to let a user change / edit / create a post this policy
needs to be changed.

www.cnczone.com serves some very important purposes. Why not
utilize more of what www.cnczone.com has to offer ?


jon

I agree. Geometry creation sucks. If I need to do something as simple as change the fillet radius of two lines, I go back to Autocad and dxf a new layer into Gibbs.

I don't like to fight with connect/disconnect. Is there a set of rules that governs what line,point,arc combination to select in order to connect.

Bill

If you want to modify a piece of existing geometry in Gibbs, the easiest way is to open Geometry Expert on the geometry creation pallet. Double click the geomety that you wish to modify. This will populate the table. Then by clicking on the element of interest ( radii, chamfer, diameter, etc), it will be highlighted in the table. Then simply make the change, and hit enter and viola, your done.

If you want to modify a piece of existing geometry in Gibbs, the easiest way is to open Geometry Expert on the geometry creation pallet. Double click the geomety that you wish to modify. This will populate the table. Then by clicking on the element of interest ( radii, chamfer, diameter, etc), it will be highlighted in the table. Then simply make the change, and hit enter and viola, your done.

The only problem with this (I haven't used it recently) is that if that geometry chain you double click on is not a closed chain, the endpoints will disconnect.

Very annoying.

I agree with 2 points made in this thread: 1. Creating-and modifying- geometry in Gibbs is unnecessarily awkward, 2. Gibbs should allow the user to modify postforms.

Creating geometry in Surfcam is intuitive, logical and can be learned in 5 minutes by a beginner, and Surfcam postforms are accessible to the user.

While I agree with the annoyance of not being able to modify your posts in gibbs ,post haste is a joke unless you are working in your garage, I don't understand what problem with geometry creation you guys are refering to. I can't imagine gibbs being any easier to use.

I don't understand what problem with geometry creation you guys are refering to. I can't imagine gibbs being any easier to use.

Try some other software. I've used probably close to a dozen different CAD/CAM programs, and aside from the Geometry Expert, creating geometry in Gibbs is painful at best.

I once decided to sit down and create a little CAD/CAM system. I wanted to make it as easy to program as possible. When I thought about how to handle geometry and its creation, I came up with a system that's purely mathematical, putting the work into the hands of the user, not the programmer... I quickly realised that this is how Gibbs works.

When I asked the representatives at the tool show about 8 years ago, why certain things weren't improved or fixed, their response was, "if it isn't broken, we're not going to fix it!"

Gibbs geometry creation is by far the most arduous system I've ever had to work with. It even lacks nifty features like tangent-to-tangent line creation, rectangle creation at one of the sides or corners, and various other little gizmo's that make geometry creation just a bit easier for the everyday programmer.

Here's a neat challenge! try creating this shape in gibbs


X------X------X
| | |
| | |
X------X------X
| | |
| | |
X------X------X


It is possible, but it's very difficult.

I can only hope that I am not understanding your challenge. If it is to make 4 rectangles I can have that done in about 20 seconds.

It even lacks nifty features like tangent-to-tangent line creation, rectangle creation at one of the sides or corners, and various other little gizmo's .....


The tangent line creation is 3rd from left.

gibbsman:

Yes. 4 squares/rectangles, all connected, 12 lines all together. All blue.

cadman:

I know about the rectangle and tangent tools, however, can you select which corner the rectangle is dimensioned...? No, you need to calulate it from center. and with the tangent tool, can you run a line tangent between two arcs of different radiuses? I think not.

Really, I'm not trying to bash Gibbs, however, I wish they would offer a choice as to what method to use when creating geometry. That way, the diehard fanatics are still happy, and the people who are on the fence can join in the fun too. Gibbs, despite it's lack of control, is a very slick system for doing general machining and I work with it every day. However, having worked with MasterCAM, I expect more from Gibbs.

Dimensioning rectangles/squares from corners or centers does fall into the personal preference/user friendly catagory. However, you can still create a rectangle based on corner locations. Instead of a center position you would enter the corner position and add or subtract half the side length. Not quite intuitive I agree. Just entering the corner position would be better, but then I've used other cam software that have a geometry tool or two that leave a little more to be desired, including Mastercam & Surfcam among others. There really is no cam software immune from the Quirky Geometry Creation Syndrome.

I guess I don't understand what you are getting at about the Line/Tangent tool and different size arcs. Works fine over here.

Hmmmm, I didn't know about that feature... it's not in an actual menu so I didn't think of it... neat, thank you. However, I'm having trouble getting one of the arcs to show up in the correct direction, oh well...

As far as the rectangle feature, would the dialog (from masterCAM) really be hard to implement? I don't think so.

If the arcs are pointed the wrong way, select the offending arc(s) and use the Reverse Arc tool.

I do like the Mastercam box creation dialog better than the Gibbs.

HI
If the arcs are pointing the wrong way, select the arc an go Ctrl T this will put it
the right way

I've been using gibbs cam for years, i'd take it any day over mastercam ( which I also use). I can create geometry twice as fast in gibbs as opposed to any other software Iv'e used. I love it !!!

I fixed all my Gibbs geometry creation problems by switching to MastercamX.

And I'm very much happy with it.

Gibbsman is totally right. To anyone who has used gibbs for a period of time, geometry creation is a snap. But I also understand what the rest of you are saying. You all probably all learned Autocad first. I first learned autocad and later Gibbs. For months, I hated Gibbs. I had the same problem connecting geometry as you are having. The problem with connecting(and deleting and seeing the original line underneath) is that you have somehow created multiple features on top of one another. (I used to do the same thing.) If you have a problem connecting, delete the feature repeatedly until it is gone, then press CTRL-Z to undo and restore the last one.(That way you will have only one copy of the feature.) If you have a lot of problems, try this: select all the geometry you want to keep, press CTRL-C(Copy) then select all(CTRL-A) and delete. Press CTRL-V(Paste)(This will get rid of all the multiple features) With only one copy of each line and circle, connecting with either points or arcs will be easy. PS forget about the "Geometry Expert".(You like it because it works somewhat like autocad.) Learn the tools Gibbs has. Once you learn it, it beats the rest hands down.

I Think Gibbscam Is Different When It Comes To Geometry Creation. You Always Start On A Point. Then From Point To A Line. Its Very Primitive. That Is Why If You Are An Old Machinist With No Cad Background This Approach Works Best. The Rest Comes Easy That Is Why I Am Hooked With It. Its Like Childs Play. Mastercam X2 Is Fast When It Comes To Geometry Creation You Can't Beat Snap Modes. You Just Keep Clicking.mc Also Has More Toolpath Option When It Comes To Surfacing And More Controls On Toolpath. Everything Is Easy On Mastercam In My Opinion. In Gibbscam You Have To Learn Some Tricks On Toolpath Because It Is Limited In Some Aspect.


Burger

for replying. I appreciate your input. I am a bit confused though. It sounds to me like you like both Gibbs & MC about equally, favoring MC for better toolpath options?? I have to admit that I have not used MC so I can't knock it, but I couldn't read that thread without defending the ease of geometry creation in Gibbs. I agree that "Gibbscam Is Different When It Comes To Geometry Creation." That may be why so many people dislike it. I suspect that they have never explored or used the options available.
But, if I understood correctly, I don't agree with you that in GibbsCam "You Always Start On A Point. Then From Point To A Line. Its Very Primitive." That sounds exactly like the method I learned in Autocad 10 & 11(DOS versions). That is probably how the "Geometry Expert" works to satisfy old autocad users. I can't say for sure, because I never use it. The geometry pallet in Gibbs is full of options, and I use them all. (except the "Expert". I never had any success getting it to work well for me.) There is no need to start from a point to a line, like you said. (although you can)
I am not sure what the"Snap Modes" in MasterCam does. It sounds a bit like the "Mouse Line" option in Gibbs. (Click Line, then the icon that looks like a mouse.) I use "Mouse Line" once in a while, but there are so many other options I use more. I frequently start with a rectangle and put the corner fillets on in one step, if required. (you would be surprised how many parts have a shape that includes at least part of a rectangle) Then, using other options, modify the shape as required.
Do you guy's work with 3-D Solids. I have created many 3-D solids with Gibbs and find 3-D to be almost easier that 2-D, but as one fellow user said, "You have to know your 2-D well first.
PS I sent you a personal message thanking you for your Gibbs Post processor site. I'd like to thank you again for making those available.

I believe its all in what you are used to first( first software you used). Personally I have used a taught Mastercam for many years and about two years was approched to teach Gibbscam the geometry creation I struggled with because I know how to do geo. creation a certain way in Mastercam. Gibbs was completly different but as I used it I got pretty quick with it, teaching it seems to be easier in some cases Than Mastercam. The geometry association is the big big plus along with stock recognition. Change a feature in Geo Expert and the whole part and toolpath is updated very usable feature. I would like to make some videos of geo. creation in Gibbs but I have limited time . I will let you know when or if I do here on this forum. I do have sample of stuff on my site but nothing with Gibbs as of yet.
Steve Arteman
www.cad2cam.blogspot.com
www.cad2cam.net