Hey guys,

Well I figured it would be easier to just start a new thread on my machine. I GOT IT TODAY!!!! YIPPIE.

Before we get started, I want to make sure I say the intent of this thread is to give an honest review. As many of you may know I got a KT-2525 that I returned do to workmanship.

MACHINE K2cnc.com KG-3925

I just got the machine and am at work so I can’t do much with it. However I have opened up the package and all I can say is A+ for packing. Man they really took there time getting this in the box. I asked that it be shipped apart and each piece is individually wrapped, etc. Screws are with the pieces. NICE.

This think looks HUGE! I have looked at the Y and Z axis and they look good. Again, I won’t know till tonight/tomorrow how everything runs but so far so good.

CNCRob have you gotten yours yet?

taus

Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/worthless.gif

Give him a break, he's at work. But there better be pics tonight!!!

Give him a break

Ok, but just this once! :)

Did you order their servo/controller package too? I'm curious because it looks like they use the same servos that I bought (Clifton). I am interested in seeing what type of performance they give (and with the PSU they put together).

Man those guys holding up signs look funny. Yes, this thread without pics does lack a lot :banana: I will get pics up tonight and as the days go on.

I did not get the servo package but am going to use 180 oz/in steppers (ones from my sherline mill) and I think it will run nicely. I am really thinking of getting these 270 oz steppers (http://www.homeshopcnc.com/page3.html) but I will see. Then I can put the other steppers back on my sherline. I will be using max voltage for the steppers and gecko drives.

So far things look good. I think I might have to open up the mount for the Y-axis that hold the mount for the ballscrew (man K2 really needs to get a part list out!!!!). I find when it is a little loose it is very smooth to move but when I tightned up the screws there is more resistance and the ballscrew sound a little rough. The linear bearings are awesome!

This is my first machine with ballscrews, linear bearings, anti-backlash screws, etc.

I will put it together tonight (heck I might even skip dinner) and get it running!

YIPPIE! :wee:

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

I have not received mine yet, but on the ups tracking page it says out for delivery. Its usually around 7:00pm before they get to our house. Glad to see you got yours.

I finally got my KT-3925 CNC machine. Actually it came just 4 mins after my last post. I think it's a really nice machine so far. But all I have had the chance to do is start unpacking everything. It was very well packed by the way. The real test will be when I get it put together and try it out. I went out and bought a work bench to put it on tonight. I posted a few photos of what it looked like this afternoon. I should be able to post some better ones of it put together soon.

Hey CNCRob,

That is great news!! I am also putting mine together as I had them ship it unassembled. Very nice so far. I do find some backlash in the Nook ballscrews. Still putting it together.

will get pics up tonight.

taus

IT's ALIVE!!

I will write more about it soon but here are some pics. Mine has 2 extra cross braces that I had ordered with the Kt 2525 that they let me just keep. One is a bit short and I will put a shim on it.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1w.jpg
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/2w.jpg
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/3w.jpg
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/5w.jpg
(this is great, I can add photos! Thanks Paul for such a great site!)

hehee
Ummm like what do you wanna cut?

Man this thing is HUGE!

taus

CNCRob, can you do me a big favor? Could you take some close up internal pictures of the PSU/Control Box? I am going to be using the same transformer that they use, and I just want to see how they did it. I'm also interested in where they got that nice AC input block with the switch.

If it isn't too much trouble. :cheers:

tauscnc: Looks great! No tolerance issues on this one? Can't wait until you get this dialed in, curious to see how the accuracy is. Congrats!

I see you are using the same transformer from MJPA too, and wiring it in series like me.

Hey JavaDog,

Yeah, it is the same MJPA transformer. What I don't know is if you wire transformers in series do you cut the amps then? I am thinking of mounting the Geckos on the axis to keep the wire motors very short but am concerned about the dust and dirt getting into them. I could also just build a box like the one CNCRob got. I think if K2 routed the box with X Y Z and their name that would of looked really cool :) Heck, he can just route it himself now. If I make one I am thinking of making it with the clear polycarbonate sheets. I will have to see.

My biggest concern is making a new table for it, getting an enclosure made, mostly KEEPING this thing and the basement clean. Somehow I see chips of material ending up all over the house.

I will try to cut something today. I notice the X axis needs to be tightened (the end nuts need to be tightened). I think I also need to tweak the mount that mounts to the X and Y ballscrews. The Z axis seems dead on but I have not measured it yet.

I need to figure out how many steps I need for 1 mm movement (Gecko microstepping)... any ideas before I start throwing numbers out?


http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/6w.jpg

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/7w.jpg

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/8w.jpg

thanks!
taus

How do I make the photos thumbnailed?

thanks
taus

You might try 393.70 step/mm to start.
When you get a chance would you measure the backlash in your Nook ballnut.
Your machines arrived in better condition than mine did.

How do I make the photos thumbnailed?

thanks
taus

You can't yet, when linking from the photo gallery, you would have to upload them to the thread. I'm working on a fix.

Thanks Paul.

Carlnpa,

My KT-2525 had some banged up nicks, probably from FexEx but the box they sent my base was thin and not well packed. I wrote to them about that and asked that my machine be sent disassebled. I did not think UPS could handle such a large item without killing it :) And yes one of the boxes was bashed open but luckly it was where all of the padding was. The machine arrived very good.

I would suggest anyone getting these larger machines to get them disassembled. But there is also NO documentation with it so you have to go off the pics. It is not tough, everything fit well. CNCRobs seems to have come out ok.

I will check the backlash soon. I do notice there is more in it then the leadscrew :( I thought ballscrews where not spose to have much of any backlash.

I am surprised at how noisey they are also. They sound almost gritty..but I hear as long as the balls are moving and not sliding that is fine ??

Is there any grease that you use on them or do you just leave the screw dry?

thanks
taus

Are ballscrews very gritty?

I find if I turn the screw counter-clockwise it's pretty smooth. However when I change direction (clockwise) it is tough. It like they are getting stuck and I feel like I am going to break them. They loosen but get stuck again.

So far I don't see the luxary of ballscrews or are these Nook ones just cheap? They list thompson on the website but nook is what I have. The leadscrew on the Z axis is silk.

There has to be some grease they need...

UPDATE:
I called Nook and they said to use E-900 lub. The ballscrew is a standard roll screw and the info on the nut is here (SBN10325)http://nookindustries.com/ball/BallSRTInfo.cfm?id=15

taus

Tuaseef,

When I ordered my ballscrews and ballnuts from Rockford, they were extremely gritty. I dismantled the nuts and sprayed them with WD-40 over a white paper towel to see what was in there. Lot's of dirt, some grease, and even a few full chips came out.

I ordered another ballnut from Thompson a while later and it was dirty as well. Not as bad as the Rockford, but still in need of a good cleaning.

My advice: before you install a ballnut, take it apart and clean it thoroughly. They’re not hard to put back together (http://industrialhobbies.com/howto/product_instructions/repairing_preloaded_ballnut.htm). And, wipe down the entire length of the screw while you're at it.

Chris Kirchen

I have used the rolled type ball screws on all my CNC equipment. About the ball screw, I have received some that looked clean on the outside and I have seen some that looked like they had some kind of flakes on the outside of the screw. Like it was burned in the heat treating process or something. I don't know enough about the process of case harding of these screws.

I took a wire brush to the screw to clean off the flakes. It is a good idea to dismantle the ball nut because it also is case hardened and could have the same flakes inside.

Also do lube the screw.

My biggest concern is making a new table for it, getting an enclosure made, mostly KEEPING this thing and the basement clean. Somehow I see chips of material ending up all over the house.

taus,
I purchased a custom built 25"x50" unit from K2CNC. Both kevin and Ron have been a great help!
I have attached a couple images that show how I put together my setup. The old steel tube drafting table works great. I used plastic laminated 3/4" aircraft ply w/T-nuts for a hold down table and my own clamps. The dust collection system, which I fabricatred, works great for cutting flat material such as crabon, ply and 1/8" alum. I use a 1 micron, 1600CFM dust collector attached to the bottom of the drafting table to keep the dust contained within the 1/4" plex cage.

Mike

Nice setup Mike.

I'm thinking of a similar setup using retaining walls at the edges of the cutting surface that just clear the gantry to limit swarfing on the x axis rails.

Man, just looking at what you guys have done/are doing to setup your machines is almost dicouraging. Even after I get my machine it will probably take a good month to get everything assembled/hooked up

swarf guard
way covers
sealed machine case
spindle mounting
table surface-including hold-down system for parts-
fresh air / exhaust air
machine stand

ahhhhhh... are we there yet?


Carlo

Taus I believe gritty on the ballnut is normal. DO NOT remove the ballnut from the screw, the ball bearings will all jump out, these cannot be reassembled by us. I just installed my preload ballnut from Nook, lost about 1.25 inch carriage travel on one side but no (0.000) backlash. Nook claims up to 8/1000 backlash is normal on this screw assembly, they offer a select fit option that costs $100 to get 2 or 3/1000 backlash. I paid 169.48 for the preload ballnut. The z is silky and quiet. I agree ballscrew has been overrated, unless getting the high accuracy ballscrew assembly, might as well get quality acme. I'll take some pictures of my machine on a stand made with welded legs from McmasterCarr and with the 1/2 inch mic 6 plate on it. My machine needed that plate to stiffen the frame and reduce distortion. The 1020 1x2 inch frame is light to support the gantry load so it sags when the gantry is in the center, like 2x/1000. Still, I like the machine. cbass, you are right about the set up time.

Today I put together the work bench for my cnc. I also started the assembly of the cnc. Right now im not very impressed with the machine. All I have done is attach the gantry post to the frame. On one side, one of the four bolts is stripped I couldn't even get it to start. Also each side had a package of screws. One side had a package with 8 the same size, and the other side had a package with 3 of one size 4 of another size and 1 a totally different size altogether. None of which are the same size of the package with the other 8 in it. tauscnc was yours like this? if so how do you know where each one goes? Thats about it for this update, im hoping tomorrow will go a little better.

Hey guys,

First my ballscrew experience.

Again this is my first experience at ballscrews and as carlnpa pointed out I think they are really over rated (unless maybe you get the "$1 million" kind).

Well unfortunetly I did take it apart and tried to follow the directions on that website. To my surprise there really is not much to the ballscrew. I cleaned the inside out and got a lot of "dirt" out. I then went to put it back and the first go was ok but the balls kept falling out of the back. I then undid it again and as I put 2 balls in they got trapped and the assembly stuck :(:( O man!!! I tried everything but the balls got stuck on the ridge and there was nothing to do. I finally resorted to crank on the end and the ballnut with pliers and drove it off. In the process one of the balls let loose and pinged aross the room never to be seen again. To my surprise I did not crack the ballscrew or bend the end. The screw looked fine. I HAD TO CRANK IT OFF! Now where to get a ball? I found a ball bearing and cut it in half to find the ball is the same size (3.15mm). I used it and after about 4-5 tries I finally figured out how to assemble it back together. I was able to put in about 3 extra balls (if I recall correctly) but at the end 4 fell out and I just left it. It might be + or - 1 ball. It does run smoother but I am not sure if that is because of the vasline I used.

CONCLUSION: DO NOT TAKE THE BALL NUT OFF UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING AND HAVE HOURS TO SPEND PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER! . I simply just applied vasline to the X axis and called it a day. I am not going to take that off.

CNCRob,

Man I am so sorry to hear about the machine and screws. First thing I would do is shoot off an email to Rob at K2 and tell him the issue.

Tell me what part and where (K2 YOU REALLY NEED TO GET A PART LIST OUT ASAP!!!!!) and I will let you know what size screw I used. Mine was fine but I was on them daily to make sure they checked because I was not going to get another "KT-2525" workmanship machine. So far, other then the ballscrews, its really nice.

I was really excited to get a machine with ballscrews but don't see the hipe yet. Again, I am sure a lot has to do with the fact that they are the lower class ones.

I will post more pics tonight.
tauseef

O yeah, on the units.

They say 2000 steps for 1 in. So wouldn't I just divide 2000/2.54" to get the steps for mm? That would come out to be 787.40157 steps?

thanks
tauseef

Taus,

Yes, ballscrews designed for use where their reduced friction and increased efficiency are the main concern; are often less than ideal when pressed into use for precision positioning. IOW, there are ballscrews that really weren't meant to be used the way we use them in DIY-CNC. And the "actuator grade" that are likely used by K2--and most others at teh low end of CNC, really WILL be better if you do a bit of work to them.

I'd suggest following the advice Jeff D gave about disassembling each one and cleaning with a wire brush and or scotchbrite pads.

BTW, if you spread out a sleeping bag, then put a WHITE sheet over it, then SIT down in the MIDDLE of it, you'll likely not lose any balls when you disassemble.

Roland Friestad had an article about assembling ballnuts to the screws in HSM magazine. The idea you used with vaseline is pretty much what we all do, just using white lithium or --in my case-- Krytox grease (Grainger's has it.)

Point is, even tho you don' wanna. IMO you'll be glad--in the long run-- if you DO take these apart and clean 'em up...

The factory guy who said .008 is a clue; this is DEFINITELY NOT a motion control grade screw/nut.

You asked where to get balls? Bal-tec in Los Angeles, CA, USA is an EXCELLENT source. (I tend to use oversize balls in a single cheap ballnut with the low grade rolled screws; and it works well. there is a bit of time where the balls are "running in"; then that goes away and things work well.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo


Are ballscrews very gritty?

I find if I turn the screw counter-clockwise it's pretty smooth. However when I change direction (clockwise) it is tough. It like they are getting stuck and I feel like I am going to break them. They loosen but get stuck again.

So far I don't see the luxary of ballscrews or are these Nook ones just cheap? They list thompson on the website but nook is what I have. The leadscrew on the Z axis is silk.

There has to be some grease they need...

UPDATE:
I called Nook and they said to use E-900 lub. The ballscrew is a standard roll screw and the info on the nut is here (SBN10325)http://nookindustries.com/ball/BallSRTInfo.cfm?id=15

taus

Forgot to add that since you have a lathe; make yourself a short rod the same diameter as the root of the ballscrew. This is used when you reload the nut (when you buy a ballnut by itself it comes with a shart cardboard tube of this diameter inside to keep the balls from falling out. You then put the nut against the end of the screw and turn the nut onto the screw--and off the cardboard tube...

Another item you can make which helps immensely is a set of two collars that fit the OD of the ballscrew and are milled (for square body ballnuts) or turned(for round body ballnuts) to locate the ballnut exactly concentric to the ballscrew.

You put the empty ballnut on the screw; add these collars on each end of it, and now the ballscrew is in the center. This makes adding the balls REALLY EASY. Worth the time to make IMO.

Ballendo

Forgot to add that since you have a lathe; make yourself a short rod the same diameter as the root of the ballscrew. This is used when you reload the nut (when you buy a ballnut by itself it comes with a shart cardboard tube of this diameter inside to keep the balls from falling out. You then put the nut against the end of the screw and turn the nut onto the screw--and off the cardboard tube...

Another item you can make which helps immensely is a set of two collars that fit the OD of the ballscrew and are milled (for square body ballnuts) or turned(for round body ballnuts) to locate the ballnut exactly concentric to the ballscrew.

You put the empty ballnut on the screw; add these collars on each end of it, and now the ballscrew is in the center. This makes adding the balls REALLY EASY. Worth the time to make IMO.

Ballendo
Those are great recomendations! that keeps the balls from getting out on top of the thread!

Hey Ballendo,

Man you always seem to find me and help out. You have been with me since I started this whole machining thing. I think you where the one to answer my question about shank dia vs flute diameter and what the heck that is. Also you confirmed that the Sherline laser ingravings on the Y axis are indeed backwards. Remember? Gezzz, we have come a long way.

Great ideas too. I will get a large sheet out and give the screws a good overlook. I am interested in making this machine as smooth as possible. Do you think scotch brite pad or #0000 steel wool?

I was able to get 3-4 paper towel worth of grit and dirt out of the ballnut. I will also make a rod for the nut to load it and also those collor things. That is what happened to mine the 2nd time I tried to load it...the 2 balls road on top of the ballscrew and got stuck. Man o man.

Well I did cut some stuff last night and this thing with the porter cable router can sure make a mess! That router is so freaking loud. Now I just have to learn how to use Mach 2 better. It was really cool to watch the gantry move! I was cutting pine type wood around 50-60 ipm (I think) with a 1/8" endmill. Butter.

Always something to learn!

taus

I'm using a Hitachi MV12VC 2.25hp variable speed. It's really quiet even while cutting and cost is low. TIR 0.0005
steps
(2000/25.4)/0.2(inch/thread)=393.70 step/mm
Was it close?

Hey guys,

Having read all your comments on ball screws, I can't help but feel a bit confused. Why is there so much dirt in these? Aren't they made under relatively clean conditions? As I've ordered preloaded screws, should I still consider taking them apart, or does this only apply to non-preloaded versions?

Hey carlnpa, where did you get your TIR specs for the Hitachi? 0.0005 seems very good, in fact, it puts it in a class by itself. Did you measure this yourself or was it published somewhere? The best stat I've seen for a router is for a Makita RP1101 which is claimed to have 0.0015 TIR. Of course there is probably variations from day to day in the factory. Some might be better than others. Your claim of .0005 is within the ballpark of a Sherline Industrial Headstock (0.0003-4). If this is the case, I may want to reconsider my spindle as the Sherline is about $450-500.

Even if the spindle's runout is .0005, once you tighten a bit in the collet it's unlikely that the runout will still be that low.

As for noise, any good quality router with variable speed will be pretty quiet around 10,000 rpm. And 10,000 rpm should be plenty fast for the speeds you'll be cutting at.

The Hitachi is pretty tight. I ended up measuring with a bit in the collet, took readings from the shaft and tool bit. I had been using a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter insert and was getting accuracy issues. Chasing them down the adapter from a porter cable laminate trimmer had .005+ runout.

Like I said, .0005 is in a class by itself. As I think ger21 alluded to, your reading may still be off depending on how you aligned the bit and collet in relation to the spindle. Taking an average of several different alignments would account for this. I often judge a book by its cover, and when I saw the Hitachi I was a bit put off by its running shoe asthetics. Regardless, it sounds like a quality tool.

Any idea if there are fixed tooling systems for a 1/2" router like the Hitachi? From what I've read, the Tormach system requires a drawbar...

Any idea if there are fixed tooling systems for a 1/2" router like the Hitachi? From what I've read, the Tormach system requires a drawbar...

Sears makes some quick change collets for Porter Cable and Craftsman routers, which can be set up for fixed length tooling I think. I think some people here bought some a long time ago, but I've never heard any reviews.

If you use Mach2, it's possible to write a macro so that when you change tools, the router can travel to a switch and automatically set the tool length. Swede had posted about doing the same thing in FlashCUT, but had a few problems. Not sure if he's got it working yet. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7621

cbass - I went up and measured again, TIR on shank of Belin 1/4 in bit much less than 0.001. Outside of collet and shaft is all over the place ie 0.005. Inside of shaft where collet mates much less than 0.001. Could be I just got a good one. I mentioned the Hitachi because I am getting good numbers and the unit is very quiet. I'll be getting a second one for another operation in a few weeks will post results of that one.
BTW my little HF mill shows 0.0015, grizzly lathe 0.002

Hey guys,

Worked on the router some more. I took the Y axis ballscrew off again and tried to shine/polish/buff/ it using a drill and #0000 steel wool. I can say the leadscrew will now fall under its own weight through the nut as long as there is no load on it (but I never tried this before cleaning so I am not sure if it is "really" better). I have to say my biggest disappointment on this machine (and one of my biggest excitments I had about getting it) are the ballscrews.

I dare to take the X one off afraid somewhere I will bent it. I am just gonna leave it alone. I have places where it seems to bind more, etc. I have not measured the backlash yet.

Gotta work on an enclosure for it and also gotta figure out Mach2, sometimes freezes on me.

Well that is it for now.
later
taus

Pictures of machine, limit switch, router in mount, 1/2in Mic6 plate

Hey carlnpa,

I love that aluminum top! Wow. How did they finish that, looks like one HUGE flycutter :) The router also has a real cool look to it. Nice setup. How is the double nut setup working out? I am should have most of my setup done this weekend and will also take some pics.

Nice.

taus

Taus,

I can't tell for sure from your pictures, but the link for the ballnut you gave is not an anti-backlash nut. If that's what's on your machine, the only benefits you'll see are smoother motion and higher efficiency. To eliminate backlash, you'll need to use preloaded ballnuts (like the ones on carlnpa's machine).

I'm a strong believer that cleaning the ballscrews/ballnuts is the only way to go. When cycling my machine by hand after initial assembly, the X ballnut jammed on the ballscrew. When I cleaned it, I found, along with the grit and dirt, a couple ~1/8" steel chips. I promptly cleaned the other two axes. It was a good thing the machine wasn't under power--I hate to think what would have happened...

Otherwise, your and carlnpa's machines look great. I can't believe you guys got them together so fast. One of those K2 kits sure beats building a machine from the ground up. And it doesn't sound like they're much more expensive.

Chris Kirchen

Taus - one huge flycutter, that plate is flat, feels very smooth but you can see the cut pattern. Factory spec 0.005 flatness on the plate. It weighs maybe 60+ lbs but is real stiff and reduces the deflection that was giving me problems, it also seems to make the whole machine real stable. The new ballnut has zero backlash, I was running accuracy numbers again today to check cutting accuracy, will have to check again but it looks like less than 0.002 on 5.0 in cuts in y, 0.001 in x axis. The y axis maybe a ballscrew issue. The ballscrew tolerance numbers are +-0.004 in/ft. The x axis numbers have been real good but I may yet replace with another preloaded ballnut.

Chris,

Total agreement about cleaning the lower cost ballscrews and ballnuts (rolled thread types).

Also want to add that a single body(single circuit) ballnut CAN be an anti-backlash type. There are two common methods used: oversized balls, and "preloading" the grooves in the nut body itself that the balls run in. (When preloaded grooves are used the ballnut may be a multi-circuit type, and still "look like a single body nut.)

There is a third methos used with single circuit ballnuts, but I've only ever seen it used by Techno-Isel. This uses a clamping-down-across-the-body technique which is similar to the method used with pillow block thomson style linear ball bushings. Seems to work okay, according to Techno-Isel owners.

Ballendo

P.S. I think it's more than "probable" that most low end ballnuts and screws, regardless of distributor --like so many other motion products these days-- are being sourced in China. I know that a supplier I use for motor couplings is sending me Chinese stuff. The related point is that we need to run a reamer in these before use, and replace the "cheese" steel 4-40x3/8 socket head capscrews with decent Domestic screws. (Had problems witrh slippage until we did.) I too have seen those "1/8 pieces" when doing this. The Chinese parts do not seem to be finished well, and the de-burring is incomplete at best!

Ballendo


[QUOTE=ckirchen]Taus,

I can't tell for sure from your pictures, but the link for the ballnut you gave is not an anti-backlash nut. If that's what's on your machine, the only benefits you'll see are smoother motion and higher efficiency. To eliminate backlash, you'll need to use preloaded ballnuts (like the ones on carlnpa's machine).

I'm a strong believer that cleaning the ballscrews/ballnuts is the only way to go. When cycling my machine by hand after initial assembly, the X ballnut jammed on the ballscrew. When I cleaned it, I found, along with the grit and dirt, a couple ~1/8" steel chips. I promptly cleaned the other two axes. It was a good thing the machine wasn't under power--I hate to think what would have happened...

[QUOTE=tauscnc]Hey carlnpa,

I love that aluminum top! Wow. How did they finish that, looks like one HUGE flycutter :)

Taus,

A fly cutter can't give the required flatness and surface finish...

Mic 6 alum plate is blanchard ground. A blanchard grinder is like a HUGE floor polisher that you see being used to polish the floors in supermarkets sometimes. One large grinding wheel, which cuts on its face.

Blanchard grinding is the typical process used for flattening large metal plates, like those on machine table tops--like a table saw.

Here's a link to an explanation about how mic-6 plate is mfd. (It didn't mention the grinding specifically, so I added that here.)

P.S. I use 5/8 mic-6 plate for my "expensive" PCB mill CNC machines; because it has the best flatness spce of the thicknesses around 1/2". (IOW, a 5/8 mic 6 plate will arive flatter than a 1/2 or 3/4 mic 6 plate.)

Ballendo

Helps to add the link<G>

http://www.designnews.com/article/CA270744.html

Hey ckirchen,

The link I sent is the link we found while talking with Nook. I don't think this is a preloaded ballnut. Just a single one.

Can you guys please explain to me the cleaning process in some detail.

For example, if I use scotchbrite pade or #0000 steel wool should I hold it again the screw as I have something turn it...should I do this 50 times, etc. For the ballnut what should I do? I can put paper towel into it and get it clean but after that I have no way to "clean" the hole edges etc. Also, since there is no wiper on them aren't they just going to get jammed with saw dust etc. quickly?

Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks!
taus

I added some more pics to my website and a movie !

http://cuttingedgecnc.com/cncrouter.htm

taus

Hey Taus,

You should definitely use wipers. You never know what is going to end up on the ballscrew (chips, sawdust, or otherwise). I run wipers on all three axes, even though two of them are hidden by steel. The ones that the manufacturer sells are good, so are rolling your own (http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/r/Arts_home_page/cnc/) or using hot glue (post #19 in http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7180).

To clean the ballscrews, chuck one end in a hand drill. If you can't use a drill, connect the drive to the screw. Run the drill/drive slowly and allow the towel/scotchbrite to move back and forth as guided by the threads. Also, don't overdo the scotchbrite. All you want to do is take off any hard-to-remove grit. You don't want to remove the oxide and make the screw silver. When you're done, you should have a clean dark brown surface. Put some 3-in-1 oil on a towel and apply it by running the drill/drive again.

Like you said, it's a little more difficult to clean the ballnuts, because you have to reach all the inside corners. I used degreaser with a couple different sizes of pipe brushes (from Walmart). Then, blast them out with air (I don't have a compressor, so I use a can of compressed air). Do it over a white towel, so you can see if any dirt comes out with the air. Repeat the degreaser if necessary. Finally, oil/grease the bodies as soon as you're done to ward off any chance of surface rust.

Chris Kirchen

Hey guys,

I was just playing around testing the "enclosure" I have almost finished and the Y axis stopped! I checked and the Gecko seems just fine. So I opened the motor (I did not pull it out of the casing...have already leaned that :) and found 3 wires were yanked off! Man, I lucked out on this one. I have put it all back together and it works find. Wheeee... All is well.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/wirespulled.jpg

I also found that the ballscrew on the Y axis runs very free if it is not fully tightened down. So I did some more investigating and found the mount must not be perfectly 90 degrees. I put a "plastic paper" shim at the bottom and the Y-axis is MUCH SMOOTHER!!!! I am not kidding, it has LOST a lot of its gritty feeling, sound, etc. I can even push on the Y axis and it will "run" through the ballscrews (w/ belt off).

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/shimball.jpg

I think I will now have to check the X-axis. If I recall, I noted the mount had to be pushed down a little for it to slide over the crossbrace. I can now jog the Y-Axis a full speed with out any problems.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/enclosure.jpg

taus

Taus, Its looking very nice.

Sounds like you're well on your way to fine tuning your machine. :)

One question about this...


I also found that the ballscrew on the Y axis runs very free if it is not fully tightened down. So I did some more investigating and found the mount must not be perfectly 90 degrees.
taus

I'm assuming that you want the axis to move through the screws when they are pushed. This is without the screws being connected to the motors, correct? When the motors are hookedup, they'll create resistance, which is why the z axis won't just drop when the machine is turned off.

Am I on the right track?

Carlo

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/enclosure.jpg
taus

Hey, is that the Kobalt workbench from Lowes??

It looks identical to the Kobalt at Lowes but I beleive his said WaterLoo on it. I bought the two drawer Kobalt version from Lowes for my router.

It looks identical to the Kobalt at Lowes but I beleive his said WaterLoo on it. I bought the two drawer Kobalt version from Lowes for my router.

Same here. Seems really nice and sturdy. Much better than the overpriced "Craftsman" ones...

Hey Carlo,

Thanks! I am starting to enjoy the machine more and more but am thinking of upgrading the stepper motors. The 180 oz/in work fine but I just want more speed... (getting greedy now :). Your right on the axis movement, sorry for not being clear. When the belt is off of the motor I can push on the Y axis and can get it to run through the ballscrew (with a little help). Before it was just difficult to turn it by hand.

I also checked out the X axis last night and as I remembered, the block is also too big. I will post pictures later when I get home to show this. I "flycut" a little off the top and it not only fits better it is also "more" 90 degrees to the mount. K2 (unless my finding are wrong) has some machining issues to work out.

I also found that running 2 transformers in series to get 52 volts really does nothing for my motors. I can run them at 36V and get the same speed. So I backed that down and the motors seem a bit cooler.

Hey JavaDog,
It is the "waterloo" bench but am sure it goes by many names. Here is a link, I think I got it at Lowes. Here is a link of the "same" workbench (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=47106-56096-WB4820&lpage=none) by kobalt. (update, you guys already figured this out :)

I took the back off and cut the two mouting pieces. I than added about 5, 1/2 inch pieces of pine to clear the machine. I used some 90 degree mounts for the side panels. I will post some pics tonight of the setup so far.

I just remembered I have no fuses on the steppers or power supply and I have to put an on/off switch on it too.

Still more to go.

taus

Here are some other pics of it:

Here you can see one of the mouting posts for the top part that need to be cut for the router. Dremel with cutoff wheel makes quick work of the steel

PICTURE 1 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-27-05/P1000677.JPG)

Here is another pic of the side where I added a shelf for the power supply. Its hidden away nicely. I am going to drill a hole in the front for a switch. You can also see how I simply mounted the printer port.

PICTURE 2 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/4.jpg)

The Gecko's are on the back and simply doubleside taped to a piece of wood. I have them resting against the table.

PICTURE 3 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/5.jpg)

Thats all for now.
I will post more pics tonight.
Back to work :)

taus

Great pictures! Thanks for that!

Makes me feel even better about buying that bench. Now, it just needs casters!!

Hey guys,

Here are some more pics of the X-axis. K2 you really need to check your setups!

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/xmount.jpg)
Here you can see how the mount is not really cut to sit 90 degrees on the X-axis. While I don't "care" as much since I have other machines, desire, etc. to fix this, I am diappointed again at K2 for their machining ability on these very important part.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/xmount1.jpg)
Here you can see how the mount is also to big. At the end of the travel it was still almost this far down. I understand the ballscrew is falling a little under its own weight here but even flipped over I had to push it a little to get it to fit. (unless it is to be this way I see it as being to big.)

PICTURE 3 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/xmount2.jpg)
Here I took the mount off and put it on my trusty Shelrine. I flycut "some" off and noted it did not cut all of the part at one time. The block was indeed not 90 degrees. I cut just enough to get it level. This is a picture of it back on. Much less force to get it to fit over the crossbrace, much better mounting.

F for workmanship on this part.

taus

The SERVO Package that K2 sells what do you think about it? I am sure the Gecko Drives are wonderful but how are the motors, the rapid of the machine the setup, etc.
taus

Since I am using the same motors and transformers (PSU) - I am pretty interested in that too.

I think you can get the motors cheapers from Jeff at HomeCNC though...that is where I got them. :cheers:

Hey Taus,

Seems like you should be on salary with K2.
You are, after all, doing all the QA on your machine.
Maybe I should just have them ship my order to your place first :D

I'm starting to get cold feet. I want my machine yesterday, but I don't want them to skimp on the details and so I'm not asking them to rush anything.

Have you mentioned any of these errors to them?

Do you guys think I should let them in on our little secret? (wedge)

Carlo

That is just sad for the $$$$$$ put out.

Tauscnc,

You are lucky that the error was on the more material side :)

Hey guys,

As for K2, I have had long talks about their KT-2525 but not much of anything on the KG-3925. Before I ever bought the machines, I told K2 that I would do a review of their machines on cnczone and my website. I was (and still am) really excited about the machine. So they knew I might be "trouble" :). When I sent the 2525 (which was horribly made) I wrote them a personal letter with many honest suggestion. I also own my own practice (going on 7 months now) and we are not only in the health care field but also customer service. For us to survive we must have 100% better service than anyone in the world :) HONEST feedback is very hard to come by and when we get it I jump on it. You get feedback everyday but much of it is not "real stuff." I think the more K2 knows we know the faster they will need to fix these errors. A company as "small" and concentrated as K2 will not survive if they don't take the next step ASAP to get these problems resolved. I think they have a "great" product and I think they have a great nitch in the cnc community....they just have to get some bugs worked out and check over their machines/shipping ways.

-A letter with each machine or a note card saying "Thank you for choosing us." SOMETHING should be sent with each machine. Heck it took 8 weeks to make it, I am sure a little note card saying "thanks" won't take that long. I can make one on my computer in seconds. No information is sent with the machines and that is just poor. Nothing.

-A part list MUST be made and ASAP! When I spoke to Kevin and Ron I had to describle the parts and then I was asked to send a picture. Again, for me, I don't mind (that much, but many others will) and for a machine to not have a part list....poor, Poor, POOR. I suggested I could make one for them for an aluminum top that has pics, etc. I have not been contacted. When I talked to Ron it did not seem like he even knew a note was sent and no mentions about it was made. (Again, feedback is only good if you make something of it).

-I suggested not to send the machines assembled but partically made. Mine, another guy that just wrote me, CNCRobs (I think) all had some dents etc from the shipping. These are just to big and heavy to be shipped by people that don't care about the purpose of the package. K2 also, in my opinion does not package the base well. It is in a thin box. The other stuff is packed well. Its pretty stupid to get a "percision machine" all dented up.

-To check their machining setup and do it ASAP. I have a sherline and I could of made the KT-2525 better. For them to be using the "real stuff" there is very little reason for some of these mistakes. Check fixtures, G-code, etc.

-To not promise something and not deliver. I was never upset that my machine was not made sooner. I was upset that I was told I would get phone calls returned, it would be out today, tomorrow, etc.

My intentions with this thread is to have HONEST feedback for anyone interested in these machines. I figure if I show my experience with K2 it will help everyone out including myself :) I also figure it will push K2 to get things sorted out faster then what they might of wanted too.

I am not sure K2 knows about this thread and they shouldn't be surprised when they find out/are told, etc. They knew first hand I would be sharing my experience in detail.

I guess I have been SPOILED by Sherline, (and now by Gecko Drives (Mariss)their products and customer service. K2, as they mentioned to me is a growing company and (like myself taking over a 30 year practice) have many things to learn. I guess that is one reason I look at it a little differently now....before, I would of just been really pissed.

man, my fingers need a break,

taus

My experiences mirror yours Taus in every regard. I also sent emails and phone cons about my concerns that were quite specific, always professional. I am in the sales and service business, and would not survive long with this level of customer service. I am really torn about applying my engineering knowledge to fix K2 issues, for their benefit and at my expense.

phone cons
Oops. Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/rotflmao.gif

The sad part about all this is that K2 really does look to have a very nice product, and if they can manage to work out these issues (and maybe compensate you guys that are helping to fix the problems) they really will do very well. They have to step up to the plate and get involved though.

On here as well, it is not uncommon to have Art from ArtSoft, Mariss from Gecko Drives, etc - post on this forum in response to questions/concerns/etc. If K2 were addressing this publicly would go a long way to satisfy a lot of everyones concerns.

It sure steers me away from them at any price. I am still totally convinced that no semi massed produced product can compete with one off craftsmanship given equally designs.

They should know that there are a number of people (myself included), interested in their product, that are watching this thread to see if they'll comment on the problems. They should be made aware of this site and this thread in particular (if they aren't already). Their silence is costing them sales.

Dave

I was just about to purchase their KG-5050 myself. But now im starting to have 2nd thoughts.

You know that I think I am going to prove the above post true and build a 50X50 router. Seems that with some minimal equipment (a 7X10 lathe, a taig mill and a drill press) I could come up with a high performance commercial grade router.

Now where is my pencil. ;)

One way I looked at this whole thing is you are presenting a product over the internet that I cannot go look at and I cannot touch. You also don't have a history of many users. I think we are some of the first. So the information you present must be accurate, true and percise. THIS IS ALL WE HAVE TO GO ON. If the information is not what it seems then I feel as I have been "taken." Looking at their site I would easily believe the product is A+. Looking at the videos I would believe the same. When I bought the Sherline I expected a top notch product, the history of their line told me so. When I got the product I was more then happy. Even after the 3-4 years now I would still say Sherline has an EXCELLENT line.

One thing I noticed right away is K2 mention Thompson ballscrews on their site but Nook were sent with the machine. Now the way I look at it as a newbie to ballscrews is why did they change. Heck, I don't know the difference from one ballscrew to the next but my throught process is they used the Nook because they must be cheaper. I don't know. I only have the website to go from. So they really need to update that now. My point again is, since the ONLY thing we have to go off of to buy their product is the site it must be as accurate as possible. Since these are percision machines there shipping must change and a part list be made next to top priority. Get the basics done because before you know it you will be over your head.

I am also a little surprised K2 has not commented on anything either. Heck, maybe they don;t know but I don't feel it is my job to let them know about this thread. I feel my feedback was very honest and free. They advertise here, know about my website, etc.

Again, I think they have a good nitch in the cnc community and all they have to say is "we are working very hard to make sure each machine is 100% accurate, we have addressed all of these issues first hand and have changed our....." and I am sure many would be happy. It really takes very little.

taus

I can say that the machine I got from them didn't have any issues with it than again it's a completely different construction. The only issuse I had is the couplers were not the right size for my stepper motors and I have to re-bore them to fit. Other wise I was pleased with it, and them. You're re-view was very honest and great to see all your detailed input to back-up your statments.

Hey Paul,

Thanks. Again, I am not interested in downing any company but am interested in an honest view at the product. We have all see pointless threads of "flaming" without any rhyme or reason.

hey by the way, when I click on a link from another post to see it or a picture it opens a new window and I have to re-log in to that window to see it. Any way to fix that or is something not set right on my computer (cookies?).

thanks
taus

Taus, for the money you spent on the machine...I think you have every right to be upset...even extremely upset. If I made a part like the mounting block at work, I would have to eat the cost and make another. That is some of the worst workman ship I have seen. The thing has a radius like it was loaded sideways...horrible.

I'm wondering how they make these machines in the first place. At my shop we have a set of prints for every job. We have assembly sheets for the prints, and a final assembly print. Every print has a Bill of materials, surface finish, tolerance values, etc. What do these guys use? Napkins?

If they don't want to give away tolerances or whatever they could send the prints without the call outs. That would at least give you the name of whatever it is that you are having a problem with. It seems to me that they don't even have prints. For the money you're spending there should be a Bill of Materials at LEAST.

You haven't been spoiled by Sherline. That is a classic example of a real company. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip and you can't GROW a tree in Lava. Their excuse of "growing" is LAME, and IMO your giving K2 the benefit of the doubt by not dropping the hammer as you should.

Are there any formally educated engineers at K2? I'm just curious.

Hey Nonorginal,

I love the name :) I agree and see your point. I gave them the benefit of the doubt when I got the pooly made KT-2525. If you think the block was poorly made check out my site for the Kt-2525 pics here (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/cncrouter.htm). They gave me pretty good discount on the KG-3925 so it did show they where trying. I would be much more upset if I paid full price. I just don't see how being pissed will help me. I am more interested in making the machine work and for the most part (95%) it is working very well. Again, I am posting the bad and the ugly mostly. There is a lot of nice things about the machine too. Problem is many of the very important pieces (ballnut mounting blocks) are not cut well. I think if one was using the servo motors or very strong steppers they may never notice since it would just power thorugh. I have removed all of the ballnut/leadscrew mounts and all axis move very smoothly over their entire travel. At least the tracks are all "perfectly" parallel...now that would have pissed me off :) K2 says they test the machine before shipping, that is hard for me to believe...unless they just look "past" the mistakes. If they tested my KT-2525 before shipping they should have thrown up as the bent leadscrews whiped around at 30 inch per min travel.

As for "growing" I understand that in a customer satisfaction standpoint but I do not agree on a machining standpoint. You should not be selling percision machines and still growing. Either you make them well or you don't sell them untill the product has been fully tested (well then again there is microsoft...). I understand there will be design changes but the machining should still be good. I did question at one point if K2 was run in a "backyard garage." As for "dropping the hammer" I am not sure what more I can do, in a mature fashion, than post the good/bad and ugly of my experience. As Paul mentioned everything I see/claim is backed with pics, etc.
Many others that have contributed to this post have also seen some of the same issues I have.

This post will either help others not buy a k2 machine, make sure they stay on k2's butt to get a "perfect" machine, and/or inspire k2 to make some quick changes to their setups or drop their prices.

taus

Ok, today is my day off so you can bet I plan to get something done :) Back to the machine. Well back to cleaning my basement really. I spoke to Mariss at Geckodrive yesterday and he was so helpful. He calculated stuff in his head that I don't even know how to do on a calculator :)

This may sound simple but one of the major problems I was having with speed is I did not restart the computer to let Mach2 reset the "engine." I have found I can get to about 35000 freq but if I set it at 45000 it freezes up. I am running a 890 mhz with 128 ram, windows 2000. I assume the ram is just to little? I also remembered, after reading some posts here, if the power wires are more then 1 foot away from the Gecko you are to use a capacitor. Since I could not find any, I moved the geckos to the supply last night. I can't tell a difference but assume there is some.

Hope to cut something today and post some pics.
taus

Hi Taus,
I've been enjoying your thread (s). I noticed your comments on Mach2 or 3.

This is what Art said regarding speed selection.....

"There is one rule. If your velocity slider on any motor is maxed out
upwards in 25Khz, and you want more speed, then bump the kernal. Otherwise,
always stay at 25Khz. Always use "Enahanced Pulsing" as well. There is no
benifit to not using enhanced and no drawback to using it. There is a
performance degradation of your CPU in higher kernalk speeds, so the lower
you can use the better.
I have found it is human nature for people to see the 45Khz mode and turn
it on even if it is not required. This is a huge mistake. If your motor
cannot go that fast, then it wastes vast resources by having it set too
high. Always use the lowest kernal speed you can get away with. In the case
of servos that will go fast, 45Khz is not a problem, if you need it, you
need it, but trust me, stay low and be happy if you can. GUI performance is
90% faster in 25Khz vs 45Khz. Servo users get fast speed, but laggy windows,
25Khz people get all the speed they need, AND fast windows.

(One of those compromises we all get used to..._"

Hope this helps,
Bloy (john)

Ok, today is my day off so you can bet I plan to get something done :)
Hope to cut something today and post some pics.
taus

In two weeks I plan on having my machine done too...so I took a week and a half off of work (Gotta love PTO) to play with it. :D

Looking forward to some pictures!

Hey Bloy2004,

I notice you have sheetcam as your icon. Very nice. I downloaded the demo version and it works well. I am wanting more speed, really I am wanting steppers that just don't lock up occasionally. I notice they sometime both lock up at the same time....so it must be something else then mechanical. The ballscrews, now that the mouting blocks have been modified, run quite free. I am really getting quite happy with the machine.

I cut a part just now...the smae tauscnc faster and it worked well. I was thinking of going to servo motors but am sure they have their drawbacks too. Maybe someday when I fully upgrade I will. For now, I will put it back to 25000 and enjoy the machine.

Come on JavaDog, get that machine rolling!

thanks
taus

There is supposed to be an upcoming contest for a logo (or image) for sheetcam and I had so much fun with everyone else doing the Mach3 splash screen, (alas, I didn't win), that I've made my avatar for promoting the contest. I'm not affiliated with it, but it IS a good program.

I'm just wondering WHEN the contest will commence!

I missed out on the Gecko contest :(

Hey guys,

How are you holding pieces down? I can't do the same setup as Chamn128 with the vaccume table (even though I love your setup!) because the KG-3925 has the center leadscrew. Are you guys just milling in slots for T-nuts? Just drilling holes and putting in screws where ever....any ideas?

thanks
taus

tauscnc
"One thing I noticed right away is K2 mention Thompson ballscrews on their site but Nook were sent with the machine. Now the way I look at it as a newbie to ballscrews is why did they change. Heck, I don't know the difference from one ballscrew to the next but my throught process is they used the Nook because they must be cheaper. I don't know. I only have the website to go from. So they really need to update that now. My point again is, since the ONLY thing we have to go off of to buy their product is the site it must be as accurate as possible. Since these are percision machines there shipping must change and a part list be made next to top priority. Get the basics done because before you know it you will be over your head. "

I agree tauscnc. I too don't know one ballscrew from the next, but I have bought other Thompson products and have always liked the quality and that was one of the reason's why I purchased the KG3925 machine. The Nook brand may be 5 times better for all I know but they still shouldn't say on their website it will be one brand then it be another without first telling the buyer. I have been really busy lately with work and other activities and trying to work on the router when I get a chance. I got it together but all I have done so far is attach a marker to it and draw basic shapes. I will try to post some pictures later tonight.

Well, nothing really made last night. My motors keep stalling in the middle of jogs...the funny thing is all of them will stall so I know it is not a power issue. I am trying to run them faster but I note they also stall at the 25000 setting on Mach 2. I have turned off the constant velocity and that helped. After I read the manual some more it says to only turn on the enhanced pulsing if your using a 1.2 GHz or more, so I turned that off too. I only have 128 ram on this comp running windows 2000 so I ordered 128 more. I will see if that is the problem.

If not, I am gonna sell my almost new Geckos 201s and get a servo setup. My luck, that won't be any better :)

I was checking over more things on the machine and I think I have ran out of concerns :wee: The front plate might be a little high but I will have to check to see if that happened when I put it together. I have not done a FULL backlash check or straightness check (getting lazy) but it is running well. I still think I would of perferred the leadscrews over the ballscrews.

I still need to make some wipers and I also want to notch the front plate so I can easily insert t-nuts.

taus

Aww...I was really hoping to see some fresh-cut chips! Get cutting! Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/pokinit.gif

Taus,

If you are in my area, I would be more than willing to come over and help with what I can. I don't have the K2 machine, but rather my own creation and have gotten pretty experienced at tuning my machine with MACX3 so it will run good. I am in northern IL - between Chicago and Rockford along I90.

Chris









Well, nothing really made last night. My motors keep stalling in the middle of jogs...the funny thing is all of them will stall so I know it is not a power issue. I am trying to run them faster but I note they also stall at the 25000 setting on Mach 2. I have turned off the constant velocity and that helped. After I read the manual some more it says to only turn on the enhanced pulsing if your using a 1.2 GHz or more, so I turned that off too. I only have 128 ram on this comp running windows 2000 so I ordered 128 more. I will see if that is the problem.

If not, I am gonna sell my almost new Geckos 201s and get a servo setup. My luck, that won't be any better :)

I was checking over more things on the machine and I think I have ran out of concerns :wee: The front plate might be a little high but I will have to check to see if that happened when I put it together. I have not done a FULL backlash check or straightness check (getting lazy) but it is running well. I still think I would of perferred the leadscrews over the ballscrews.

I still need to make some wipers and I also want to notch the front plate so I can easily insert t-nuts.

taus

Well, nothing really made last night. My motors keep stalling in the middle of jogs...the funny thing is all of them will stall so I know it is not a power issue. I am trying to run them faster but I note they also stall at the 25000 setting on Mach 2. I have turned off the constant velocity and that helped. After I read the manual some more it says to only turn on the enhanced pulsing if your using a 1.2 GHz or more, so I turned that off too. I only have 128 ram on this comp running windows 2000 so I ordered 128 more. I will see if that is the problem.


How fast is your computer? You might want to try Mach3. Even though it is technically a work in progress, it is supposedly very stable. Ballendo has mentioned on the Yahoo group that Mach3 seems to run smoother for him on a 500Mhz PC. Also, art recently said that there is no reason NOT to use enhanced pulsing, but that may be for Mach3 as well. Have you tried lowering your acceleration a little?

If your ballscres ar 5tpi, and your Geckos are set to 10 microsteps, 25,000 Hz should be good for 150ipm. If your steppers can spin at 750rpm under load.


OK, I just looked at your website, and it looks like you are gearing your steppers at 2:1. I'm pretty sure that's your problem. By spinning your steppers twice as fast, they probably have a LOT less torque. And, you'll be limited to 75Iipm at 25Khz. Gearing steppers may make sense on a milling machines, where feed speeds are much slower, but for a router, direct drive (or 1:1 gearing )makes more sense. I'd try that before going the servo route. You might even want to try swapping the pulleys around and see if that makes a difference. I've heard a lot of people recommend 2tpi screws on routers, and swapping your pulleys would get you close to that.

Hey Gerry,

Thanks for the input. I did try a one to one ratio and it was faster...but that is to be expected. I am 99% positive it has nothing to do with the power of the motors. I have a 900 mhz windows 2000, soon to be 256 ram.

If I gear is direct drive or the other way around won't my resolution be much lower. I am not sure what is really "over kill anyway." My Sherline is direct and 400 pulses made 1 mm movement (half step). So the way I look at this is, you cut a mm into 400 separte sections...thats a lot! Now It seems to me, with microstepping I am at 787.40 steps per mm. Even more. I will try it the other way around and let you know how it goes tonight. What is good resolution for cutting?

I will also get a copy of mach 3 to try out.

Other then that I have tired a lot of things from 25000 to 45000 on mach 2, full out and slower accel and feeds.

Lets say I jog the machine (XY) it will be moving right along and then out of nowhere it will stall but BOTH axis will stall. Let me try a few things and I will report back.

taus

O MY GOD!!! This thing is rocking!!! :banana:

I switched the pullies and it moves. IT MOVES!! I also went to 25000 kz on the computer, and moved the speed to the most I could get. It has not STALLED once...and the motors sound so much better! ITS CRUSING!!! I might just try it on the 35000 kz setting for fun hehehe :)

I will have to take a movie of it... AWESOME!!!! So this is what 150 or 200 or whatever ipm feels like :eek:

Just gotta fine tune it now.

Here is a movie (sorry it is in quicktime ) MOVIE (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/cncrouter.htm) Go to the bottom.

taus

:) :wee:

Taus,

That does rock!

You'll be going to sleep happy tonight :wave:

:wee: My first sucessful part. No missing steps (that I can tell), blazing rapid and just cool to watch! I made a sign for my daughter's room. She is only 4.5 months old and hopefully will keep this forever :)

Here are some pics.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/Mileah1.jpg)
I ran out of wood so I stole one of those wooden TV trays :D. I used clamps to mount it to the table. Simple and quick.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/Mileah2.jpg)
Here is a picture of it just cut. :p I used a 1/8" endmill with a shank of 3/8." I turned a "collect" for the shank to fit in the 1/2" Porter Cable router. 2 passes at 3 mm deep. No backlash compensation...I haven't even measured it yet.

PICTURE 3 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/Mileah3.jpg)
Here it is almost done. I used my table saw to cut the sides off. I am going to use the router and table to dress up the edges. It is almost 18 inches long.

I am loving it!

taus

You didn't mention what the lead on your ballscrews is. I'm assuming 5tpi, correct?

When using microstepping, you shouldn't use the microstepping step size to determine your resolution. Depending on the load on the machine, your steppers may not move until it recieves several microsteps. Read this for more info. http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/viewSelectedArticle.asp?strArticleId=56361&strSite=MDSite

When determining resolution using microstepping, figure that half step is the resolution you'll be getting.

So if your now geared 1:2, that should be 400 (half steps) x 5 (tpi), or 2000 steps per inch, divided by 2 (1:2). This would give you .001 resolution for every half step.

.001 is fine for routing wood, and it's the tradeoff you have to make to get high speeds from steppers.

Glad you got everything working good.

That came out great!! Very nice indeed...bet it feels good to be making chips with this machine after everything!!

Wow, really nice sign. What program did you use to generate the code?

Dave

Here is a few pics I promised in my last post. I haven't had a chance to post them untill now. It's a few I took just after I got it together and started testing it. I have only done a few test with a marker and paper so far. But Im just about ready to try out the router in some wood. The pic of the circle was the first thing I did. I was in such a hurry to see it do something I just took a few of the setup papers I had and taped them down to the table top. The paper that says Janelle & Robbie was one I did tonight. I think it turned out pretty good considering I was using a marker that was bleeding all over the place and it was only held on with masking tape. tauscnc im glad to see your making some chips with yours. Your pieces are turning out really good.

Hey guys!

Thanks for the nice words on the sign. I already have requests from the family. I want one, I want one :)

Hey Gerry,
Sorry to get back to you so late. The ballscrew is 5tpi and 2000 full steps for 1 inch (0.2) movement. I am staring to understand this whole microstepping thing and how it may or may now work. So far I am really happy with the change in setup you suggested. Thanks man!

Hey Ursine,
I use (mostly) rhino3d for the cad and I use many for the cam. I have a small arsenal of programs :) Check out my page for many that I have tried/use http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/programs.htm I use anything from meshcam, sheetcam, deskcnc, cncwizard, Flashcut and I have asscess to an older version of mastercam. Surfcam is really nice too! Bobcad and Gibbscam look very nice but I found them a little difficult. Visualmill is also very nice as is Rams. Don't forget to check out Ninos and also another program that I just found out about http://www.cncsoft.com/. I almost find it fun to learn them all, real, demos, with or without manuals. I also have simply drawn out the toolpath (in rhino) and used a simple converter. For the driver, I have cncpro but now use Mach2 which I am still trying to learn.

Hey Robbie (cncrob),
Great going. Glad to see the work. I noticed the servo setup there. Keep me informed on how that works out. My steppers are doing well but I think I am going to go to 1 to 1 ratio for a little more percision. The speed is great. I think one thing you will need is an enclosure or something around the machine especially once you dig into the wood. It is going to go everywhere!

Keep us informed on how things go.

taus

Hey Mark ( and guys)

Hope all had a wonderful mother’s day.

Sorry to again hear about your beat up machine. I still think K2 should just send the machine disassembled and provided some documentation on how to just put it together. It's really quite simple. Soon they will learn after enough complaints about dented machines. Again, its really dumb to get a "precision" machine all busted up. Hopefully you will get some of that money back.

BALLSCREWS:
Now, let me remind you this is my first ballscrew machine and my first experience with them. I was amazed at how noisy they were. I have just gotten used to the noise. The Z axis is silent… almost sounding slick. The ballscrews still sound “rough” but the machine does not seem to have much resistance (after I got the mounting blocks squared).

Squaring the base…I have the same question but just never posted it. I am interested to hear the comments.

Not sure about the router but I know you can buy a spacer for the ¼” collect for the porter cable. I just turned one in aluminum and its working well. I don’t think there are many options.

Check out mach2’s site on yahoo groups. There is a post processor for mastercam there.

At this time I don’t use soft limits or limit switches. That is next on the plate.

Here some more pics of my setup and another sign I made last night.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches1.jpg)
I bought the solid state relay board from cnc4pc.com. Very nice. The heatsinks are really cheesy but the thing works great. Now I have spindle control :) Again, this is all on the "waterloo" or kobalt workbench.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches.jpg)

PICTURE OF WOODEN SIGNS (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/woodensigns.htm)

I have the Hitachi 12V router and I am looking for a 1/8th collet without using the spacer collet in a 1/4 inch unit. Does anyone make a ope-piece (no adaptor) 1/8th collet? Will a Porter Cable or Makita work in a Hatachi?



You can by this ER collet with a 1/2" shank to hold smaller bits. Not cheap, though. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9925

Hey Tauscnc,
Was that relay board preassembled or did you have to assemble it. Im thinking about getting one myself.

Here some more pics of my setup and another sign I made last night.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches1.jpg)
I bought the solid state relay board from cnc4pc.com. Very nice. The heatsinks are really cheesy but the thing works great. Now I have spindle control :) Again, this is all on the "waterloo" or kobalt workbench.

Can you give some detail on how you wired up the switchplate with the relay board for your router?

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches.jpg)

PICTURE OF WOODEN SIGNS (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/woodensigns.htm)

Again, those came out excellent. Any post-CNC work you have to do? Really nice and fun design. Could make a killing with those at a State Fair!! :D

Hey Tauscnc,

Let me know if you want to try a 3D carving. I have done some and still have the G-code :)

Hey guys,

Hey,
The relay board is assembled and looks good. The heatsinks are "handcut" but work fine (from what I can tell). It has 4 relays. One that can handle 13 amps and 3 that can handle 5 amps. This is for AC devices ONLY. It was pretty easy to setup, getting the settings right in Mach2 took me longer (still learning).

As for setup it is really easy. I used +5 volts from the computer's regulated power supply. I am also using this +5 for the Geckos. I found I did not need to put in the - 5...must be grounded through the pins, etc.

I used pin 1 and pin 17 that go right into one part of the board. The other part has the +5 volts part. On the other side you put the AC device. Just like an "on/off" switch .One AC goes to the router, the other AC to the board. Then connect the other router wire to the board. When it clicks the AC goes through the relay and into the router. WORKS GREAT!!!!! I can post some more pics when I get home. I did not want to cut my router's wire so I put in the plug.

Hey Jeff,
That is too funny. I was going to send you a personal email letting you know how awesome those cnc carvings you did. I was just at your site yesterday. Beautiful work :banana: I am interested in trying some 3D, I have not done any yet.

I was playing around with MeshCAM (http://www.grzsoftware.com/) last night and the more I used it the cooler the program became. It converts a jpeg, etc. file well!! I will keep you posted Jeff. It's something about me just wanting to do my first 3D on my own :) If I crush the machine, don't worry, I'll be calling ya!

OO, I forgot, for the boards. There is clean up work. I used a straight router and did one cut at 5mm at about 60-70 ipm (if mach2 is right). I find the wood sometimes frays and I then use a dremel with a stone wheel to "clean it up." The pictures make them look flawless but you can see some of the tool marks, etc. Overall, they look great (white pine was used on the newest one).

Good work guys!

taus

I was wondering how many steps per inch you guys with the upgraded z axis were using, Thanks-Robbie

Hey Robbie,

K2 says 2000 FULL steps per 1 so if your microstepping then won't it be 20,000 steps? That sounds like a LOT of steps. I am running mine in mm and I am using 787.40157 (2000/2.54) steps per mm on the Z. I think the upgraded and regular axis have the same leadscrew just different bearings. If your using the Gecko's I think you can just run the 2000 steps.

You know there really should be something about not posting when you just don't know the answer but heck I don't know that either . :drowning:

K2 Owners...

I suggest taking your machine right down to the nut and bolt. I just went through mine and found a ton of loose screws. Another thing that concerns me is the use of metric and american screws, in the same area! At the end of the rails, I have a metric and an american allen head bolt securing the end cap aluminum. Things that make ya go ....hhhmmm????

I took the main uprights to the gantry and machined them down level with the angled plate. ( I will post pics later). This gave me a full 25.25" of Y allowing a nice wide base plate that will protect the X linear slides. Plus, my material comes in 25 inch widths, now I can throw it straight on the machine.

Hey Millmore,

Good to hear from you. It is interesting as we hear more and more about the different experiences from people. The screws that were sent with mine, at least the ones I saw, seemed to be all American size. It seems like quality control is a major issue at K2 and no 2 machine are alike.

I would be very interested in seeing some pics of the way you modified things to get more use and your setup.

Did you get any money back from that shipping company?

later,
taus

Hi Tauseef,

Yea... its weird, I am using 4 + 5 mm hex wrenches as well as 5/32 wrenches. In one case, near the end of the flat bed area where the aluminum flat cap bolts on... it is held on with 4 bolts that go into the long aluminum rails. 1 of the 4 is 5-32 wrench (the 4mm won't fit), the other 3 use a 4 mm hex wrench that fits perfect. Maybe it is just poor screw tolerances.

In any case, I am happy with the machine. However, looking at the machine apart, it appears that it would be fairly easy to make yourself at about half the price. It is a really simple, but effective design.

I put in a large claim with the shipper, they haven't replied yet.

I'll get some pics up soon.

Mark

Hi Everyone,
I tryed setting up my maching like the K2 website said, I set up the z axis for 20000 steps per inch and when I would tell it to move 1 inch it would move almost 4 inches, and with the faster speed setting my z-axis sounds like crap. If I try to go over 100 inches per minute it starts to sound terrible. Is it like that with your machines also or is it just mine?

Hey Robbie,
Try 2000 and see. If it is moving 4 inches for every inch that should do it. I bet they have the steps per movement wrong on the site. That has to work because I based my mm movement on 2000. My X axis sounds pretty rough but the Y is a little less noisy. Again the Z is silk. I think that is just how these ballscrews sound.

Remember the sign I made for my little girl? Well her grandma painted it this weekend and it really looks great. Here it is.

PICTURE OF PAINTED SIGN (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/painted.jpg)

I also spent sometime trying to get a key chain made for mother's day. Got it done today :) 5th try. Some how the 5th one is the carm for me. I crushed one engraving bit to death. This machine cuts aluminum much better then the sherline...it must be the spindles greater horse power.

Here is the KEY CHAIN PICTURES (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/keychain.htm) It took me sometime to get the whole tool change thing figured out. I also had to hold the pice a little as the aluminum I used must of been bent. I just gotta get a photo picture now.

taus :wee:

Taus,
nice work! And I like how you record everything with your pictorials!
Looks like you are ready for some production runs....you sure got your machine up and running fast.

Bloy

Hey Tauseef,
What kind of grease are you useing in the grease fittings?

Hey Robbie,

When you say in the grease fittings I assume you mean in the linear bearing and not the ballnuts ?? If so I have not touched the linear bearing and really don't know what grease to use.

For the ballnuts I just used Vaseline. After I cleaned out the ballnuts I just put some on the ballscrew and had it run over it. I still have to put on some wipers...I bet that is another reason why the X axis sounds so gritty....stuff getting into the ballscrews.

taus

Taus,
nice work! And I like how you record everything with your pictorials!
Looks like you are ready for some production runs....you sure got your machine up and running fast.

Bloy

I agree, It's hard to beleave we got our machines the same day. Tauseef has really blown me away. Im still pretty much at the testing and learning stages and Tauseef has already made some really great looking pieces.

:p I don't sleep :eek:

Hi, k2cnc users,
is k2cnc still in business?
What troubles me is that, after a month from payment, no machine received and no answer to my mail.
Can someone help me?

Hi ciccio,

Non ti preoccupare...don't worry, I spoke to them last week, they're still there (as far as I know). They're probably just busy. I would give them a phone call.

Carlo

Grazie Carlo
puoi farmi sapere? Can you please let me know what is going on?
thank you

Yes they are spoke to Ron yesterday.
Steve

this is " customer support " !!!!!
Any info appreciated. Please help me.

this is " customer support " !!!!!
Any info appreciated. Please help me.

Try calling K2CNC direct. No one posting here works for them, better to get it straight from the horses mouth. :)

Try calling K2CNC direct. No one posting here works for them, better to get it striaght from the horses mouth. :)

Thanks, JavaDog.
But if it is impossible to have an answer to my e-mails, what do you suggest?
Are kliboon@k2cnc.com and ron@k2cnc.com the right address?
Thank you for help.

Just call Ron and he will get back to you (at least he did with me). "This is your customer support," that's funny and sad and really true.

taus :stickpoke

I think they should either start answering their email or get a 800 number.

Another K2 buyer writes me.

I just got another email from another guy that just got his KT-2525 and has the SAME problems mine did. He can also fit a piece of paper in the bearings, the machine also has dents due to shipping, and he said he waited a long time. My answer, demand your money back in full and let us know here. The fact that people are writing me for their K2 problems REALLY shows their communication is 0 (ZERO). As I suggested in my personal letter to K2, they really need to put some literature in there shipments so people know where contact them and TO contact them. The website and email is just not cutting it.

K2 you have another unhappy customer.. some major issues to figure out!! I now say buyer beware

It's unfortunate but seems really repetitive.
taus

P.S. In an attempt to help out I have email Ron at K2 (5-14-05) to make him aware that his customers are writing me and of this thread.

Paolo -Italy,

This is Ron Liboon with K2CNC. I am very sorry. We have tried often to contact you via email. Please feel free to call me 714-999-1156 or give me a contact number so that I may contact you. We are still in business. Unfortunately we only have your email address for your contact info. The machine has been shipped out Monday and you should receive it in ten days or so. USPS. We had to ship the machine in a smaller box than what we are accustomed to. Please call us so that I may provide you with the tracking number.

I hope to hear from you so that I answer any of your questions.

Thank You for informing me - Tauseef

Sincerely,
Ron Liboon



Hi, k2cnc users,
is k2cnc still in business?
What troubles me is that, after a month from payment, no machine received and no answer to my mail.
Can someone help me?

Dear Users,

This is Ron Liboon with K2 CNC. I hope to make all of CNCzone users and K2 CNC customers more than satisfied with our product and service. We are working hard to make positive adjustments to provide the best customer service, support and products.

K2 CNC as a new company has focused it machines to be shipped UPS, USPS and FED Ex. These shipping companies have dimensions and weight parameters/requirements. As information is communicated to me and the company about shipping, I and the staff are working hard to find better ways of shipping the machines.

There is always room for adjustments. K2cnc is willing to change to make those needed improvements to make all of our customers happy. We are modifying some parts as a result of our customer's feedback.

Extra care in shipping also comes with extra expenses for the customer. The company is currently working on better freight companies and better shipping arrangements while keeping down the shipping cost.

K2 CNC is a growing company with customer service as a priority. Please direct your concerns about service support and products received to ron@k2cnc.com.

K2 CNC does provide a satisfaction guaranty.

Ron Liboon
K2 CNC

Hi Ron,

I am glad to see you here and your quick response to my email. I think it is very important for people to realize K2 is, in fact, 100% behind their products. I will be the first to admit is has been a long road with you guys.

I again, Strongly, advise you to ship your machines disassembled. The one you guys sent to me partially assembled was "PERFECT." Not one scratch or dent. Getting a percision machine all dented up is not good. Just include some information on putting it together (it pretty much just goes together anyway) and I think your shipping issues will be coming to an end.

Include some literature with your machine and get a part list on your site. A "thank you for choosing us" note would also be a nice touch and goes a very long way. People are just looking for good service as you can tell we don't mind paying the price of the machine.

Check over your machining, g-code, fixutures as the pictures I have taken of my machine (KT-2525 and KG-3925) show great issues of concern.

My offer to help make a part list for the KG-3925 still stands. Email off line if your interested.

Take care
taus

Hi Ron,

I am glad to see you here and your quick response to my email. I think it is very important for people to realize K2 is, in fact, 100% behind their products. I will be the first to admit is has been a long road with you guys.

I again, Strongly, advise you to ship your machines disassembled. The one you guys sent to me partially assembled was "PERFECT." Not one scratch or dent. Getting a percision machine all dented up is not good. Just include some information on putting it together (it pretty much just goes together anyway) and I think your shipping issues will be coming to an end.

Include some literature with your machine and get a part list on your site. A "thank you for choosing us" note would also be a nice touch and goes a very long way. People are just looking for good service as you can tell we don't mind paying the price of the machine.

Check over your machining, g-code, fixutures as the pictures I have taken of my machine (KT-2525 and KG-3925) show great issues of concern.

My offer to help make a part list for the KG-3925 still stands. Email off line if your interested.

Take care
taus


Despite all the setbacks, you still give them props. Classy move taus. Thanks! And welcome to the forum, k2cnc (Ron)!

Carlo

Glad to see you on here Ron, sure you will see we are a pretty friendly bunch. ;)

One note on shipping...stay FAR away from DHL. They may be cheap, but they really are bad at handling anything heavy/fragile. My best experiences are with FedEx. Although, you may want to check out the UPS-MI program - they do a local handoff to the USPS, I beleive it is a bit more cost effective.

Hey Carlo,

Yeah. It's like a double edge sword. On one hand it is very upsetting to have to go though this to get a good machine. On the other hand I hate to see them go down hill. Time will tell really. My goal with this thread is still to give an honest review without emotions involved.

I have a completely different outlook on this whole thing then probably many others. We (my wife and I) took over a 31 year old practice and are now in our 7th month of business. The senior doctor pretty much took off without telling anyone and patient transition has been "fun" to say the least. We have the daily headaches of a new business and also make our share of "mistakes." For example, I am finally getting Medicare checks back to patients that have now been waiting 7 months (many very patiently...luckly) due to having to wait for our numbers, learning how to fully submit (Medicare themself coudn't help me..go figure), etc. So I really do "understand" and see the "mistakes" differently now. For use to suceed we have to have the best customer service anywhere and that is my goal. Little things go a long way. Hopefully K2 will also step up to the plate and get the things they need done very soon.

Beside, I just don't see this as something else I need to come home to and be upset about. For me, this cnc stuff is for enjoyment and I want to keep it that way.

BTW Carlo, have you gotten your machine yet...I don't remember.

taus

BTW Carlo, have you gotten your machine yet...I don't remember.

taus


I going on a 6 week holiday in a week. The machine is ready to ship right now according to Kevin, but I want to be here when it arrives to make sure there isn't any damage in shipping ;) . I'm going to send them the $$ a week before I get back and have them ship it then. If I plan it right, I'll be getting out of my car as the UPS guy pulls into the driveway :D

Thanks to cnc-zone and to you all for the help.
Hi, Ron - K2cnc.
Sorry, now I have another problem :
I ordered and payed ONE machine, and you sent me THREE !!!
The one you promised me "before moving"
Another one you sent me more than one month ago
This one you sent me on monday.
Nothing arrived yet:I cross my fingers.....
My e-mail address is always the same I used to order and pay.
My phone - fax is IT 0175 79598
As JavaDog suggest, "Please resist the urge to curse", at least, till possible !
Again: thanks to all.

Well as usual I have some new news on K2. I have posted the bad and some of the good too and this time I am posting just GOOD. :banana:

I got a package from K2 today out of the blue...mind you I did not contact them at all but Ron or Kevin must of read this entire thread and visited my site and have mailed me (free of charge) 2 new mounts for the X and Y ballscrews.

If you recall I had to modify mine to get them to work right. I am excited to go home and try them out.

Still no instructions on how to replace the part (even though I know) or any "personal letter" but K2 seems to be going toward the right track. Man, can I be picky :)

taus

Hi, Taus,
you are a lucky boy !
Here in NW Italy it is a cold rainy night.
I'm still waiting for a fax, a mail, a carrier pidgeon with some good or bad new about my machine ( K2 people, can you please send me the tracking number of my expedition in whatever way you choose?)

My fax : +39 0175 79598
My e-mail: paulallison at tiscali.it ( please use @ for "at" )

I just received a package from K2CNC today also. It was the piece I wrote about in another post in this thread, the piece that had the bad threads in it. The package also contained a few screws that were missing. Its touches like that; that can make them a really great company!

Sorry, we are italian.
You know, we are a little primitive.
Here in Italy to have missing parts, or to have a defective part replaced by vendor / builder is a right state guaranteed ( garanzia del prodotto).
Also a supply contract ( contratto di fornitura) is a contract state guaranteed, and not a bufoonery.
Is it the same on K2cnc land?
Still waiting for a fax or e-mail : is it my right to know , after payment?

In K2land your sometimes lucky to even get what you pay for, even more so to get missing parts or defective part replaced. Especially over the internet. Im talking about K2land and not K2CNC itself.

This is ron,

I called and left a message on the number 011 39 0175 79598. The recording was in itallian. I have been on the phone for the last 20 minutes with USPS. The informed me that I have to go to the USPS direct and talk to them to get status of your shippment. Their store front is closed right now. I will go to the USPS location and lookinto the matter. Let me know if you got the message.

Ron

Hey Tauseef,
Just wondering if you have been working on any new projects lately, Thanks-Robbie

Hey Robbie,

Good to hear from you. I have slowed down quite a bit :eek: but today I got the bug again to make something. I have not tired the new parts K2 sent…the ones I modified are working well and I will look into changing them out on the next rebuild…that hopefully won’t be for sometime.

On my project list is to make a new mirror holder for the office as well as a brochure and magazine holder. I also need to make a very custom holder for our contact lens solutions for my exam room. Nothing to much RC yet. I am getting the itch to try a 3D file and have been playing with MeshCAM more and more. O yeah, I still need to make some more signs for the family…that will never end :)

I also really need to make a holder for the Dremel tool so I can use it with the very small bits instead of the router. I also want to make a "free floating" holder for my vinly cutting blade (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/vinyl.htm) so I can cut stickers.

I was kicking the idea of trying to make a grandfather clock (just the wooden part) but I think I should get my small projects done first before I even attempt something that huge!

O yeah, one more thing. I am going to make an “exhaust” hood for our kitty litter pan and put a small 12V fan into it that vents outside. Kitty litter smell and CNC just don’t mix :)

The biggest problem I have is getting my lazy butt to the hardware store to get the wood. The other is the endless task of how to hold the part to the machine.

How about you. What projects are you working on?

taus

As I mentioned I got a package from K2 out of the blue with 2 new mounts for the X and Y axis. To keep this thread going as a review I figured I would see how long it would take to switch out the Y and what they changed. Of course, here are pictures.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/shimball.jpg)

Here is the original mount.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/onepiecey.jpg)

Here you can see the new mount. It is simpler and removed a total of 5 parts (to aluminum and 3 screws). This mount fits Perfectly…just like my other one did with the shim. I am able to push the Y axis and get the ballscrew to turn by hand (no motor connected). I am quite happy. Simple and it works.

PICTURE 3 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/onepiecey1.jpg)

Here is the mount before. The ballnut was threaded into that triangular piece first and that was bolted to the mount which in turn was then bolted to the Y axis. These have been eliminated for the one piece.

Total time to switch out was less then 5 min. I might change out the X too now…but that one will take some time.

I have not cut anything on the machine today but I did finally cut the grass. :wee: Good stuff.

taus

Good to see they are improving...with your help! ;)

Deleted, please see next post.

I wish they would send me some of the new mounts. I may have to contact them about it.

Ok,

Now I am totally and utterly pissed :boxing: . I will still refrain from cursing as much as I would love to say what I truly feel. I have tired to be understanding, I have tired to give them free feedback, I have tried to be even more understanding but now K2 YOUR MACHINING IS HORRIBLE! I can machine better on my Sherline then you can on your hundred thousand dollar machines! :eek:

As you recall in the posts above I tried out the new, BRAND new, redesigned ball screw mounts K2 sent me. The Y Axis is next to perfect…ok, that is 1 out of 3 (remember the first Y and the X was not made well.)

So I changed out the X and it was working well…I than (later on) did a FULL travel test run and it TOTALLY binds at the end of the travel, about 5-6 inches. Thus I have deleted the post above this one as it was posted prematurely before fully testing. So I did some investigating.

Here is what I found. I first found the mount would rub up against the channel only on one side so I again, used my trusty Sherline and Flycut some off. I then found THE MOUNT IS DRILLED OFF AND IS NOT EVEN IN THE CHANNEL.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/messupx1.jpg) shows hole for the ballnut is not even in the mount...don’t worry it gets better. That is 1.41mm (.555") off!

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/messupx.jpg) shows how the holes are NOT DRILLED IN LINE with the crossbrace. This picture is at the end of the ballscrew where deflection should be the least.

As I tightned down the mount I noted my ballscrew would buckle over to the side.

THERE YOU GO MY FULL REVIEW OF K2. SIMPLY PUT I'D SAY LOOK ELSEWHERE OR BUILD YOUR OWN, OR KNOW YOUR GETTING A PRODUCT THAT MIGHT NEED SOME GOOD TWEAKING. Sellling product like this, percision machineS...oooooo. YEAH.

I would not buy another K2 machine again. If I already had not spent so much time on fixing their errors, I'd throw it back in their face.

taus

Taus, I tried to tell you two weeks ago. You don't need to curse to say the machining looks worse than first year trade school students. What a joke.

I don't know what they are doing, but its laughable quite frankly. Sorry you went through this, but happy you are finally saying what needed to be said a long time ago. Good luck.

Yeah, your right. I really want to go and edit all of my posts just to say DON'T BUY A K2 MACHING but I can't. I tired eveything not to cruse them out a long time ago from there KT-2525 I got...what a JOKE...but there is simply no use. Now I almost feel like an idiot trying to "understand." What a fool I am.

Hopefully this thread as well as my updated webpage on the router will help people make up their own minds on weather to buy a K2 machine. I think my pictures say much more then my posts anyway.

Well I will get this fixed and move on, I am determined to continue my happiness with this CNC stuff.

Now I will spend half my time fixing the machine and the other half informing others to look elsewhere :)

taus

Damn!

DAMN!

This really sucks... I think I should cancel my order :frown:

In all fairness Taus, your account from the beggining has been quite a roaler-coaster. First elation, then despair (repeat a few times), now this.

I can sympathize with you. I think we all can. Who hasn't bought something and been totally dissapointed? However, they are learning from their mistakes (however big they may be), and the next step up for a comparably equipped machine (linear rails, ball screws etc) is probably a Larkin ($10,000) or a Techno ($12-15,000). What to do?...

Carlo

Hey Cbass,

I know what you mean. They have a nitch in the middle of the market but if they keep producing parts like this it won't last long. They will be under before you know it. I could produce better parts on my Sherline and have. You might as well keep the order and test out the machine. You should be able to do a quick review of all the probs I have had..mostly with the ballscrew mounts. If your machine is not "top notch" I say return it and get your money back...period. If not demand a discount. You could even tell them to send it and look it over...all well then send them the rest. Heck, your banking on them sending you a machine that is not dented, runs true, does not bind and sits level. All they are asking for is the rest of the payment. I bet their quality is very hit and miss. For the experience I have had so far I can say all of it is a miss.

I hope you have a better running machine. I just got done putting back the X axis with the modified mount and it is running fine again. It is louder but running without any binds. I pretty much have the machine tweaked out now.

keep us informed.

taus

Ive been following this thread since its inception and I have learned a couple of things. None has to do with K2 in particular, they seem like any start up trying to do thier best with a very technical product. Ive been in and out of technical sales al