Hey guys,

Well I figured it would be easier to just start a new thread on my machine. I GOT IT TODAY!!!! YIPPIE.

Before we get started, I want to make sure I say the intent of this thread is to give an honest review. As many of you may know I got a KT-2525 that I returned do to workmanship.

MACHINE K2cnc.com KG-3925

I just got the machine and am at work so I can’t do much with it. However I have opened up the package and all I can say is A+ for packing. Man they really took there time getting this in the box. I asked that it be shipped apart and each piece is individually wrapped, etc. Screws are with the pieces. NICE.

This think looks HUGE! I have looked at the Y and Z axis and they look good. Again, I won’t know till tonight/tomorrow how everything runs but so far so good.

CNCRob have you gotten yours yet?

taus

Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/worthless.gif

Give him a break, he's at work. But there better be pics tonight!!!

Give him a break

Ok, but just this once! :)

Did you order their servo/controller package too? I'm curious because it looks like they use the same servos that I bought (Clifton). I am interested in seeing what type of performance they give (and with the PSU they put together).

Man those guys holding up signs look funny. Yes, this thread without pics does lack a lot :banana: I will get pics up tonight and as the days go on.

I did not get the servo package but am going to use 180 oz/in steppers (ones from my sherline mill) and I think it will run nicely. I am really thinking of getting these 270 oz steppers (http://www.homeshopcnc.com/page3.html) but I will see. Then I can put the other steppers back on my sherline. I will be using max voltage for the steppers and gecko drives.

So far things look good. I think I might have to open up the mount for the Y-axis that hold the mount for the ballscrew (man K2 really needs to get a part list out!!!!). I find when it is a little loose it is very smooth to move but when I tightned up the screws there is more resistance and the ballscrew sound a little rough. The linear bearings are awesome!

This is my first machine with ballscrews, linear bearings, anti-backlash screws, etc.

I will put it together tonight (heck I might even skip dinner) and get it running!

YIPPIE! :wee:

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

I have not received mine yet, but on the ups tracking page it says out for delivery. Its usually around 7:00pm before they get to our house. Glad to see you got yours.

I finally got my KT-3925 CNC machine. Actually it came just 4 mins after my last post. I think it's a really nice machine so far. But all I have had the chance to do is start unpacking everything. It was very well packed by the way. The real test will be when I get it put together and try it out. I went out and bought a work bench to put it on tonight. I posted a few photos of what it looked like this afternoon. I should be able to post some better ones of it put together soon.

Hey CNCRob,

That is great news!! I am also putting mine together as I had them ship it unassembled. Very nice so far. I do find some backlash in the Nook ballscrews. Still putting it together.

will get pics up tonight.

taus

IT's ALIVE!!

I will write more about it soon but here are some pics. Mine has 2 extra cross braces that I had ordered with the Kt 2525 that they let me just keep. One is a bit short and I will put a shim on it.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1w.jpg
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/2w.jpg
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/3w.jpg
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/5w.jpg
(this is great, I can add photos! Thanks Paul for such a great site!)

hehee
Ummm like what do you wanna cut?

Man this thing is HUGE!

taus

CNCRob, can you do me a big favor? Could you take some close up internal pictures of the PSU/Control Box? I am going to be using the same transformer that they use, and I just want to see how they did it. I'm also interested in where they got that nice AC input block with the switch.

If it isn't too much trouble. :cheers:

tauscnc: Looks great! No tolerance issues on this one? Can't wait until you get this dialed in, curious to see how the accuracy is. Congrats!

I see you are using the same transformer from MJPA too, and wiring it in series like me.

Hey JavaDog,

Yeah, it is the same MJPA transformer. What I don't know is if you wire transformers in series do you cut the amps then? I am thinking of mounting the Geckos on the axis to keep the wire motors very short but am concerned about the dust and dirt getting into them. I could also just build a box like the one CNCRob got. I think if K2 routed the box with X Y Z and their name that would of looked really cool :) Heck, he can just route it himself now. If I make one I am thinking of making it with the clear polycarbonate sheets. I will have to see.

My biggest concern is making a new table for it, getting an enclosure made, mostly KEEPING this thing and the basement clean. Somehow I see chips of material ending up all over the house.

I will try to cut something today. I notice the X axis needs to be tightened (the end nuts need to be tightened). I think I also need to tweak the mount that mounts to the X and Y ballscrews. The Z axis seems dead on but I have not measured it yet.

I need to figure out how many steps I need for 1 mm movement (Gecko microstepping)... any ideas before I start throwing numbers out?


http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/6w.jpg

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/7w.jpg

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/8w.jpg

thanks!
taus

How do I make the photos thumbnailed?

thanks
taus

You might try 393.70 step/mm to start.
When you get a chance would you measure the backlash in your Nook ballnut.
Your machines arrived in better condition than mine did.

How do I make the photos thumbnailed?

thanks
taus

You can't yet, when linking from the photo gallery, you would have to upload them to the thread. I'm working on a fix.

Thanks Paul.

Carlnpa,

My KT-2525 had some banged up nicks, probably from FexEx but the box they sent my base was thin and not well packed. I wrote to them about that and asked that my machine be sent disassebled. I did not think UPS could handle such a large item without killing it :) And yes one of the boxes was bashed open but luckly it was where all of the padding was. The machine arrived very good.

I would suggest anyone getting these larger machines to get them disassembled. But there is also NO documentation with it so you have to go off the pics. It is not tough, everything fit well. CNCRobs seems to have come out ok.

I will check the backlash soon. I do notice there is more in it then the leadscrew :( I thought ballscrews where not spose to have much of any backlash.

I am surprised at how noisey they are also. They sound almost gritty..but I hear as long as the balls are moving and not sliding that is fine ??

Is there any grease that you use on them or do you just leave the screw dry?

thanks
taus

Are ballscrews very gritty?

I find if I turn the screw counter-clockwise it's pretty smooth. However when I change direction (clockwise) it is tough. It like they are getting stuck and I feel like I am going to break them. They loosen but get stuck again.

So far I don't see the luxary of ballscrews or are these Nook ones just cheap? They list thompson on the website but nook is what I have. The leadscrew on the Z axis is silk.

There has to be some grease they need...

UPDATE:
I called Nook and they said to use E-900 lub. The ballscrew is a standard roll screw and the info on the nut is here (SBN10325)http://nookindustries.com/ball/BallSRTInfo.cfm?id=15

taus

Tuaseef,

When I ordered my ballscrews and ballnuts from Rockford, they were extremely gritty. I dismantled the nuts and sprayed them with WD-40 over a white paper towel to see what was in there. Lot's of dirt, some grease, and even a few full chips came out.

I ordered another ballnut from Thompson a while later and it was dirty as well. Not as bad as the Rockford, but still in need of a good cleaning.

My advice: before you install a ballnut, take it apart and clean it thoroughly. They’re not hard to put back together (http://industrialhobbies.com/howto/product_instructions/repairing_preloaded_ballnut.htm). And, wipe down the entire length of the screw while you're at it.

Chris Kirchen

I have used the rolled type ball screws on all my CNC equipment. About the ball screw, I have received some that looked clean on the outside and I have seen some that looked like they had some kind of flakes on the outside of the screw. Like it was burned in the heat treating process or something. I don't know enough about the process of case harding of these screws.

I took a wire brush to the screw to clean off the flakes. It is a good idea to dismantle the ball nut because it also is case hardened and could have the same flakes inside.

Also do lube the screw.

My biggest concern is making a new table for it, getting an enclosure made, mostly KEEPING this thing and the basement clean. Somehow I see chips of material ending up all over the house.

taus,
I purchased a custom built 25"x50" unit from K2CNC. Both kevin and Ron have been a great help!
I have attached a couple images that show how I put together my setup. The old steel tube drafting table works great. I used plastic laminated 3/4" aircraft ply w/T-nuts for a hold down table and my own clamps. The dust collection system, which I fabricatred, works great for cutting flat material such as crabon, ply and 1/8" alum. I use a 1 micron, 1600CFM dust collector attached to the bottom of the drafting table to keep the dust contained within the 1/4" plex cage.

Mike

Nice setup Mike.

I'm thinking of a similar setup using retaining walls at the edges of the cutting surface that just clear the gantry to limit swarfing on the x axis rails.

Man, just looking at what you guys have done/are doing to setup your machines is almost dicouraging. Even after I get my machine it will probably take a good month to get everything assembled/hooked up

swarf guard
way covers
sealed machine case
spindle mounting
table surface-including hold-down system for parts-
fresh air / exhaust air
machine stand

ahhhhhh... are we there yet?


Carlo

Taus I believe gritty on the ballnut is normal. DO NOT remove the ballnut from the screw, the ball bearings will all jump out, these cannot be reassembled by us. I just installed my preload ballnut from Nook, lost about 1.25 inch carriage travel on one side but no (0.000) backlash. Nook claims up to 8/1000 backlash is normal on this screw assembly, they offer a select fit option that costs $100 to get 2 or 3/1000 backlash. I paid 169.48 for the preload ballnut. The z is silky and quiet. I agree ballscrew has been overrated, unless getting the high accuracy ballscrew assembly, might as well get quality acme. I'll take some pictures of my machine on a stand made with welded legs from McmasterCarr and with the 1/2 inch mic 6 plate on it. My machine needed that plate to stiffen the frame and reduce distortion. The 1020 1x2 inch frame is light to support the gantry load so it sags when the gantry is in the center, like 2x/1000. Still, I like the machine. cbass, you are right about the set up time.

Today I put together the work bench for my cnc. I also started the assembly of the cnc. Right now im not very impressed with the machine. All I have done is attach the gantry post to the frame. On one side, one of the four bolts is stripped I couldn't even get it to start. Also each side had a package of screws. One side had a package with 8 the same size, and the other side had a package with 3 of one size 4 of another size and 1 a totally different size altogether. None of which are the same size of the package with the other 8 in it. tauscnc was yours like this? if so how do you know where each one goes? Thats about it for this update, im hoping tomorrow will go a little better.

Hey guys,

First my ballscrew experience.

Again this is my first experience at ballscrews and as carlnpa pointed out I think they are really over rated (unless maybe you get the "$1 million" kind).

Well unfortunetly I did take it apart and tried to follow the directions on that website. To my surprise there really is not much to the ballscrew. I cleaned the inside out and got a lot of "dirt" out. I then went to put it back and the first go was ok but the balls kept falling out of the back. I then undid it again and as I put 2 balls in they got trapped and the assembly stuck :(:( O man!!! I tried everything but the balls got stuck on the ridge and there was nothing to do. I finally resorted to crank on the end and the ballnut with pliers and drove it off. In the process one of the balls let loose and pinged aross the room never to be seen again. To my surprise I did not crack the ballscrew or bend the end. The screw looked fine. I HAD TO CRANK IT OFF! Now where to get a ball? I found a ball bearing and cut it in half to find the ball is the same size (3.15mm). I used it and after about 4-5 tries I finally figured out how to assemble it back together. I was able to put in about 3 extra balls (if I recall correctly) but at the end 4 fell out and I just left it. It might be + or - 1 ball. It does run smoother but I am not sure if that is because of the vasline I used.

CONCLUSION: DO NOT TAKE THE BALL NUT OFF UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING AND HAVE HOURS TO SPEND PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER! . I simply just applied vasline to the X axis and called it a day. I am not going to take that off.

CNCRob,

Man I am so sorry to hear about the machine and screws. First thing I would do is shoot off an email to Rob at K2 and tell him the issue.

Tell me what part and where (K2 YOU REALLY NEED TO GET A PART LIST OUT ASAP!!!!!) and I will let you know what size screw I used. Mine was fine but I was on them daily to make sure they checked because I was not going to get another "KT-2525" workmanship machine. So far, other then the ballscrews, its really nice.

I was really excited to get a machine with ballscrews but don't see the hipe yet. Again, I am sure a lot has to do with the fact that they are the lower class ones.

I will post more pics tonight.
tauseef

O yeah, on the units.

They say 2000 steps for 1 in. So wouldn't I just divide 2000/2.54" to get the steps for mm? That would come out to be 787.40157 steps?

thanks
tauseef

Taus,

Yes, ballscrews designed for use where their reduced friction and increased efficiency are the main concern; are often less than ideal when pressed into use for precision positioning. IOW, there are ballscrews that really weren't meant to be used the way we use them in DIY-CNC. And the "actuator grade" that are likely used by K2--and most others at teh low end of CNC, really WILL be better if you do a bit of work to them.

I'd suggest following the advice Jeff D gave about disassembling each one and cleaning with a wire brush and or scotchbrite pads.

BTW, if you spread out a sleeping bag, then put a WHITE sheet over it, then SIT down in the MIDDLE of it, you'll likely not lose any balls when you disassemble.

Roland Friestad had an article about assembling ballnuts to the screws in HSM magazine. The idea you used with vaseline is pretty much what we all do, just using white lithium or --in my case-- Krytox grease (Grainger's has it.)

Point is, even tho you don' wanna. IMO you'll be glad--in the long run-- if you DO take these apart and clean 'em up...

The factory guy who said .008 is a clue; this is DEFINITELY NOT a motion control grade screw/nut.

You asked where to get balls? Bal-tec in Los Angeles, CA, USA is an EXCELLENT source. (I tend to use oversize balls in a single cheap ballnut with the low grade rolled screws; and it works well. there is a bit of time where the balls are "running in"; then that goes away and things work well.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo


Are ballscrews very gritty?

I find if I turn the screw counter-clockwise it's pretty smooth. However when I change direction (clockwise) it is tough. It like they are getting stuck and I feel like I am going to break them. They loosen but get stuck again.

So far I don't see the luxary of ballscrews or are these Nook ones just cheap? They list thompson on the website but nook is what I have. The leadscrew on the Z axis is silk.

There has to be some grease they need...

UPDATE:
I called Nook and they said to use E-900 lub. The ballscrew is a standard roll screw and the info on the nut is here (SBN10325)http://nookindustries.com/ball/BallSRTInfo.cfm?id=15

taus

Forgot to add that since you have a lathe; make yourself a short rod the same diameter as the root of the ballscrew. This is used when you reload the nut (when you buy a ballnut by itself it comes with a shart cardboard tube of this diameter inside to keep the balls from falling out. You then put the nut against the end of the screw and turn the nut onto the screw--and off the cardboard tube...

Another item you can make which helps immensely is a set of two collars that fit the OD of the ballscrew and are milled (for square body ballnuts) or turned(for round body ballnuts) to locate the ballnut exactly concentric to the ballscrew.

You put the empty ballnut on the screw; add these collars on each end of it, and now the ballscrew is in the center. This makes adding the balls REALLY EASY. Worth the time to make IMO.

Ballendo

Forgot to add that since you have a lathe; make yourself a short rod the same diameter as the root of the ballscrew. This is used when you reload the nut (when you buy a ballnut by itself it comes with a shart cardboard tube of this diameter inside to keep the balls from falling out. You then put the nut against the end of the screw and turn the nut onto the screw--and off the cardboard tube...

Another item you can make which helps immensely is a set of two collars that fit the OD of the ballscrew and are milled (for square body ballnuts) or turned(for round body ballnuts) to locate the ballnut exactly concentric to the ballscrew.

You put the empty ballnut on the screw; add these collars on each end of it, and now the ballscrew is in the center. This makes adding the balls REALLY EASY. Worth the time to make IMO.

Ballendo
Those are great recomendations! that keeps the balls from getting out on top of the thread!

Hey Ballendo,

Man you always seem to find me and help out. You have been with me since I started this whole machining thing. I think you where the one to answer my question about shank dia vs flute diameter and what the heck that is. Also you confirmed that the Sherline laser ingravings on the Y axis are indeed backwards. Remember? Gezzz, we have come a long way.

Great ideas too. I will get a large sheet out and give the screws a good overlook. I am interested in making this machine as smooth as possible. Do you think scotch brite pad or #0000 steel wool?

I was able to get 3-4 paper towel worth of grit and dirt out of the ballnut. I will also make a rod for the nut to load it and also those collor things. That is what happened to mine the 2nd time I tried to load it...the 2 balls road on top of the ballscrew and got stuck. Man o man.

Well I did cut some stuff last night and this thing with the porter cable router can sure make a mess! That router is so freaking loud. Now I just have to learn how to use Mach 2 better. It was really cool to watch the gantry move! I was cutting pine type wood around 50-60 ipm (I think) with a 1/8" endmill. Butter.

Always something to learn!

taus

I'm using a Hitachi MV12VC 2.25hp variable speed. It's really quiet even while cutting and cost is low. TIR 0.0005
steps
(2000/25.4)/0.2(inch/thread)=393.70 step/mm
Was it close?

Hey guys,

Having read all your comments on ball screws, I can't help but feel a bit confused. Why is there so much dirt in these? Aren't they made under relatively clean conditions? As I've ordered preloaded screws, should I still consider taking them apart, or does this only apply to non-preloaded versions?

Hey carlnpa, where did you get your TIR specs for the Hitachi? 0.0005 seems very good, in fact, it puts it in a class by itself. Did you measure this yourself or was it published somewhere? The best stat I've seen for a router is for a Makita RP1101 which is claimed to have 0.0015 TIR. Of course there is probably variations from day to day in the factory. Some might be better than others. Your claim of .0005 is within the ballpark of a Sherline Industrial Headstock (0.0003-4). If this is the case, I may want to reconsider my spindle as the Sherline is about $450-500.

Even if the spindle's runout is .0005, once you tighten a bit in the collet it's unlikely that the runout will still be that low.

As for noise, any good quality router with variable speed will be pretty quiet around 10,000 rpm. And 10,000 rpm should be plenty fast for the speeds you'll be cutting at.

The Hitachi is pretty tight. I ended up measuring with a bit in the collet, took readings from the shaft and tool bit. I had been using a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter insert and was getting accuracy issues. Chasing them down the adapter from a porter cable laminate trimmer had .005+ runout.

Like I said, .0005 is in a class by itself. As I think ger21 alluded to, your reading may still be off depending on how you aligned the bit and collet in relation to the spindle. Taking an average of several different alignments would account for this. I often judge a book by its cover, and when I saw the Hitachi I was a bit put off by its running shoe asthetics. Regardless, it sounds like a quality tool.

Any idea if there are fixed tooling systems for a 1/2" router like the Hitachi? From what I've read, the Tormach system requires a drawbar...

Any idea if there are fixed tooling systems for a 1/2" router like the Hitachi? From what I've read, the Tormach system requires a drawbar...

Sears makes some quick change collets for Porter Cable and Craftsman routers, which can be set up for fixed length tooling I think. I think some people here bought some a long time ago, but I've never heard any reviews.

If you use Mach2, it's possible to write a macro so that when you change tools, the router can travel to a switch and automatically set the tool length. Swede had posted about doing the same thing in FlashCUT, but had a few problems. Not sure if he's got it working yet. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7621

cbass - I went up and measured again, TIR on shank of Belin 1/4 in bit much less than 0.001. Outside of collet and shaft is all over the place ie 0.005. Inside of shaft where collet mates much less than 0.001. Could be I just got a good one. I mentioned the Hitachi because I am getting good numbers and the unit is very quiet. I'll be getting a second one for another operation in a few weeks will post results of that one.
BTW my little HF mill shows 0.0015, grizzly lathe 0.002

Hey guys,

Worked on the router some more. I took the Y axis ballscrew off again and tried to shine/polish/buff/ it using a drill and #0000 steel wool. I can say the leadscrew will now fall under its own weight through the nut as long as there is no load on it (but I never tried this before cleaning so I am not sure if it is "really" better). I have to say my biggest disappointment on this machine (and one of my biggest excitments I had about getting it) are the ballscrews.

I dare to take the X one off afraid somewhere I will bent it. I am just gonna leave it alone. I have places where it seems to bind more, etc. I have not measured the backlash yet.

Gotta work on an enclosure for it and also gotta figure out Mach2, sometimes freezes on me.

Well that is it for now.
later
taus

Pictures of machine, limit switch, router in mount, 1/2in Mic6 plate

Hey carlnpa,

I love that aluminum top! Wow. How did they finish that, looks like one HUGE flycutter :) The router also has a real cool look to it. Nice setup. How is the double nut setup working out? I am should have most of my setup done this weekend and will also take some pics.

Nice.

taus

Taus,

I can't tell for sure from your pictures, but the link for the ballnut you gave is not an anti-backlash nut. If that's what's on your machine, the only benefits you'll see are smoother motion and higher efficiency. To eliminate backlash, you'll need to use preloaded ballnuts (like the ones on carlnpa's machine).

I'm a strong believer that cleaning the ballscrews/ballnuts is the only way to go. When cycling my machine by hand after initial assembly, the X ballnut jammed on the ballscrew. When I cleaned it, I found, along with the grit and dirt, a couple ~1/8" steel chips. I promptly cleaned the other two axes. It was a good thing the machine wasn't under power--I hate to think what would have happened...

Otherwise, your and carlnpa's machines look great. I can't believe you guys got them together so fast. One of those K2 kits sure beats building a machine from the ground up. And it doesn't sound like they're much more expensive.

Chris Kirchen

Taus - one huge flycutter, that plate is flat, feels very smooth but you can see the cut pattern. Factory spec 0.005 flatness on the plate. It weighs maybe 60+ lbs but is real stiff and reduces the deflection that was giving me problems, it also seems to make the whole machine real stable. The new ballnut has zero backlash, I was running accuracy numbers again today to check cutting accuracy, will have to check again but it looks like less than 0.002 on 5.0 in cuts in y, 0.001 in x axis. The y axis maybe a ballscrew issue. The ballscrew tolerance numbers are +-0.004 in/ft. The x axis numbers have been real good but I may yet replace with another preloaded ballnut.

Chris,

Total agreement about cleaning the lower cost ballscrews and ballnuts (rolled thread types).

Also want to add that a single body(single circuit) ballnut CAN be an anti-backlash type. There are two common methods used: oversized balls, and "preloading" the grooves in the nut body itself that the balls run in. (When preloaded grooves are used the ballnut may be a multi-circuit type, and still "look like a single body nut.)

There is a third methos used with single circuit ballnuts, but I've only ever seen it used by Techno-Isel. This uses a clamping-down-across-the-body technique which is similar to the method used with pillow block thomson style linear ball bushings. Seems to work okay, according to Techno-Isel owners.

Ballendo

P.S. I think it's more than "probable" that most low end ballnuts and screws, regardless of distributor --like so many other motion products these days-- are being sourced in China. I know that a supplier I use for motor couplings is sending me Chinese stuff. The related point is that we need to run a reamer in these before use, and replace the "cheese" steel 4-40x3/8 socket head capscrews with decent Domestic screws. (Had problems witrh slippage until we did.) I too have seen those "1/8 pieces" when doing this. The Chinese parts do not seem to be finished well, and the de-burring is incomplete at best!

Ballendo


[QUOTE=ckirchen]Taus,

I can't tell for sure from your pictures, but the link for the ballnut you gave is not an anti-backlash nut. If that's what's on your machine, the only benefits you'll see are smoother motion and higher efficiency. To eliminate backlash, you'll need to use preloaded ballnuts (like the ones on carlnpa's machine).

I'm a strong believer that cleaning the ballscrews/ballnuts is the only way to go. When cycling my machine by hand after initial assembly, the X ballnut jammed on the ballscrew. When I cleaned it, I found, along with the grit and dirt, a couple ~1/8" steel chips. I promptly cleaned the other two axes. It was a good thing the machine wasn't under power--I hate to think what would have happened...

[QUOTE=tauscnc]Hey carlnpa,

I love that aluminum top! Wow. How did they finish that, looks like one HUGE flycutter :)

Taus,

A fly cutter can't give the required flatness and surface finish...

Mic 6 alum plate is blanchard ground. A blanchard grinder is like a HUGE floor polisher that you see being used to polish the floors in supermarkets sometimes. One large grinding wheel, which cuts on its face.

Blanchard grinding is the typical process used for flattening large metal plates, like those on machine table tops--like a table saw.

Here's a link to an explanation about how mic-6 plate is mfd. (It didn't mention the grinding specifically, so I added that here.)

P.S. I use 5/8 mic-6 plate for my "expensive" PCB mill CNC machines; because it has the best flatness spce of the thicknesses around 1/2". (IOW, a 5/8 mic 6 plate will arive flatter than a 1/2 or 3/4 mic 6 plate.)

Ballendo

Helps to add the link<G>

http://www.designnews.com/article/CA270744.html

Hey ckirchen,

The link I sent is the link we found while talking with Nook. I don't think this is a preloaded ballnut. Just a single one.

Can you guys please explain to me the cleaning process in some detail.

For example, if I use scotchbrite pade or #0000 steel wool should I hold it again the screw as I have something turn it...should I do this 50 times, etc. For the ballnut what should I do? I can put paper towel into it and get it clean but after that I have no way to "clean" the hole edges etc. Also, since there is no wiper on them aren't they just going to get jammed with saw dust etc. quickly?

Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks!
taus

I added some more pics to my website and a movie !

http://cuttingedgecnc.com/cncrouter.htm

taus

Hey Taus,

You should definitely use wipers. You never know what is going to end up on the ballscrew (chips, sawdust, or otherwise). I run wipers on all three axes, even though two of them are hidden by steel. The ones that the manufacturer sells are good, so are rolling your own (http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/r/Arts_home_page/cnc/) or using hot glue (post #19 in http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7180).

To clean the ballscrews, chuck one end in a hand drill. If you can't use a drill, connect the drive to the screw. Run the drill/drive slowly and allow the towel/scotchbrite to move back and forth as guided by the threads. Also, don't overdo the scotchbrite. All you want to do is take off any hard-to-remove grit. You don't want to remove the oxide and make the screw silver. When you're done, you should have a clean dark brown surface. Put some 3-in-1 oil on a towel and apply it by running the drill/drive again.

Like you said, it's a little more difficult to clean the ballnuts, because you have to reach all the inside corners. I used degreaser with a couple different sizes of pipe brushes (from Walmart). Then, blast them out with air (I don't have a compressor, so I use a can of compressed air). Do it over a white towel, so you can see if any dirt comes out with the air. Repeat the degreaser if necessary. Finally, oil/grease the bodies as soon as you're done to ward off any chance of surface rust.

Chris Kirchen

Hey guys,

I was just playing around testing the "enclosure" I have almost finished and the Y axis stopped! I checked and the Gecko seems just fine. So I opened the motor (I did not pull it out of the casing...have already leaned that :) and found 3 wires were yanked off! Man, I lucked out on this one. I have put it all back together and it works find. Wheeee... All is well.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/wirespulled.jpg

I also found that the ballscrew on the Y axis runs very free if it is not fully tightened down. So I did some more investigating and found the mount must not be perfectly 90 degrees. I put a "plastic paper" shim at the bottom and the Y-axis is MUCH SMOOTHER!!!! I am not kidding, it has LOST a lot of its gritty feeling, sound, etc. I can even push on the Y axis and it will "run" through the ballscrews (w/ belt off).

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/shimball.jpg

I think I will now have to check the X-axis. If I recall, I noted the mount had to be pushed down a little for it to slide over the crossbrace. I can now jog the Y-Axis a full speed with out any problems.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/enclosure.jpg

taus

Taus, Its looking very nice.

Sounds like you're well on your way to fine tuning your machine. :)

One question about this...


I also found that the ballscrew on the Y axis runs very free if it is not fully tightened down. So I did some more investigating and found the mount must not be perfectly 90 degrees.
taus

I'm assuming that you want the axis to move through the screws when they are pushed. This is without the screws being connected to the motors, correct? When the motors are hookedup, they'll create resistance, which is why the z axis won't just drop when the machine is turned off.

Am I on the right track?

Carlo

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/enclosure.jpg
taus

Hey, is that the Kobalt workbench from Lowes??

It looks identical to the Kobalt at Lowes but I beleive his said WaterLoo on it. I bought the two drawer Kobalt version from Lowes for my router.

It looks identical to the Kobalt at Lowes but I beleive his said WaterLoo on it. I bought the two drawer Kobalt version from Lowes for my router.

Same here. Seems really nice and sturdy. Much better than the overpriced "Craftsman" ones...

Hey Carlo,

Thanks! I am starting to enjoy the machine more and more but am thinking of upgrading the stepper motors. The 180 oz/in work fine but I just want more speed... (getting greedy now :). Your right on the axis movement, sorry for not being clear. When the belt is off of the motor I can push on the Y axis and can get it to run through the ballscrew (with a little help). Before it was just difficult to turn it by hand.

I also checked out the X axis last night and as I remembered, the block is also too big. I will post pictures later when I get home to show this. I "flycut" a little off the top and it not only fits better it is also "more" 90 degrees to the mount. K2 (unless my finding are wrong) has some machining issues to work out.

I also found that running 2 transformers in series to get 52 volts really does nothing for my motors. I can run them at 36V and get the same speed. So I backed that down and the motors seem a bit cooler.

Hey JavaDog,
It is the "waterloo" bench but am sure it goes by many names. Here is a link, I think I got it at Lowes. Here is a link of the "same" workbench (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=47106-56096-WB4820&lpage=none) by kobalt. (update, you guys already figured this out :)

I took the back off and cut the two mouting pieces. I than added about 5, 1/2 inch pieces of pine to clear the machine. I used some 90 degree mounts for the side panels. I will post some pics tonight of the setup so far.

I just remembered I have no fuses on the steppers or power supply and I have to put an on/off switch on it too.

Still more to go.

taus

Here are some other pics of it:

Here you can see one of the mouting posts for the top part that need to be cut for the router. Dremel with cutoff wheel makes quick work of the steel

PICTURE 1 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-27-05/P1000677.JPG)

Here is another pic of the side where I added a shelf for the power supply. Its hidden away nicely. I am going to drill a hole in the front for a switch. You can also see how I simply mounted the printer port.

PICTURE 2 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/4.jpg)

The Gecko's are on the back and simply doubleside taped to a piece of wood. I have them resting against the table.

PICTURE 3 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/5.jpg)

Thats all for now.
I will post more pics tonight.
Back to work :)

taus

Great pictures! Thanks for that!

Makes me feel even better about buying that bench. Now, it just needs casters!!

Hey guys,

Here are some more pics of the X-axis. K2 you really need to check your setups!

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/xmount.jpg)
Here you can see how the mount is not really cut to sit 90 degrees on the X-axis. While I don't "care" as much since I have other machines, desire, etc. to fix this, I am diappointed again at K2 for their machining ability on these very important part.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/xmount1.jpg)
Here you can see how the mount is also to big. At the end of the travel it was still almost this far down. I understand the ballscrew is falling a little under its own weight here but even flipped over I had to push it a little to get it to fit. (unless it is to be this way I see it as being to big.)

PICTURE 3 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/xmount2.jpg)
Here I took the mount off and put it on my trusty Shelrine. I flycut "some" off and noted it did not cut all of the part at one time. The block was indeed not 90 degrees. I cut just enough to get it level. This is a picture of it back on. Much less force to get it to fit over the crossbrace, much better mounting.

F for workmanship on this part.

taus

The SERVO Package that K2 sells what do you think about it? I am sure the Gecko Drives are wonderful but how are the motors, the rapid of the machine the setup, etc.
taus

Since I am using the same motors and transformers (PSU) - I am pretty interested in that too.

I think you can get the motors cheapers from Jeff at HomeCNC though...that is where I got them. :cheers:

Hey Taus,

Seems like you should be on salary with K2.
You are, after all, doing all the QA on your machine.
Maybe I should just have them ship my order to your place first :D

I'm starting to get cold feet. I want my machine yesterday, but I don't want them to skimp on the details and so I'm not asking them to rush anything.

Have you mentioned any of these errors to them?

Do you guys think I should let them in on our little secret? (wedge)

Carlo

That is just sad for the $$$$$$ put out.

Tauscnc,

You are lucky that the error was on the more material side :)

Hey guys,

As for K2, I have had long talks about their KT-2525 but not much of anything on the KG-3925. Before I ever bought the machines, I told K2 that I would do a review of their machines on cnczone and my website. I was (and still am) really excited about the machine. So they knew I might be "trouble" :). When I sent the 2525 (which was horribly made) I wrote them a personal letter with many honest suggestion. I also own my own practice (going on 7 months now) and we are not only in the health care field but also customer service. For us to survive we must have 100% better service than anyone in the world :) HONEST feedback is very hard to come by and when we get it I jump on it. You get feedback everyday but much of it is not "real stuff." I think the more K2 knows we know the faster they will need to fix these errors. A company as "small" and concentrated as K2 will not survive if they don't take the next step ASAP to get these problems resolved. I think they have a "great" product and I think they have a great nitch in the cnc community....they just have to get some bugs worked out and check over their machines/shipping ways.

-A letter with each machine or a note card saying "Thank you for choosing us." SOMETHING should be sent with each machine. Heck it took 8 weeks to make it, I am sure a little note card saying "thanks" won't take that long. I can make one on my computer in seconds. No information is sent with the machines and that is just poor. Nothing.

-A part list MUST be made and ASAP! When I spoke to Kevin and Ron I had to describle the parts and then I was asked to send a picture. Again, for me, I don't mind (that much, but many others will) and for a machine to not have a part list....poor, Poor, POOR. I suggested I could make one for them for an aluminum top that has pics, etc. I have not been contacted. When I talked to Ron it did not seem like he even knew a note was sent and no mentions about it was made. (Again, feedback is only good if you make something of it).

-I suggested not to send the machines assembled but partically made. Mine, another guy that just wrote me, CNCRobs (I think) all had some dents etc from the shipping. These are just to big and heavy to be shipped by people that don't care about the purpose of the package. K2 also, in my opinion does not package the base well. It is in a thin box. The other stuff is packed well. Its pretty stupid to get a "percision machine" all dented up.

-To check their machining setup and do it ASAP. I have a sherline and I could of made the KT-2525 better. For them to be using the "real stuff" there is very little reason for some of these mistakes. Check fixtures, G-code, etc.

-To not promise something and not deliver. I was never upset that my machine was not made sooner. I was upset that I was told I would get phone calls returned, it would be out today, tomorrow, etc.

My intentions with this thread is to have HONEST feedback for anyone interested in these machines. I figure if I show my experience with K2 it will help everyone out including myself :) I also figure it will push K2 to get things sorted out faster then what they might of wanted too.

I am not sure K2 knows about this thread and they shouldn't be surprised when they find out/are told, etc. They knew first hand I would be sharing my experience in detail.

I guess I have been SPOILED by Sherline, (and now by Gecko Drives (Mariss)their products and customer service. K2, as they mentioned to me is a growing company and (like myself taking over a 30 year practice) have many things to learn. I guess that is one reason I look at it a little differently now....before, I would of just been really pissed.

man, my fingers need a break,

taus

My experiences mirror yours Taus in every regard. I also sent emails and phone cons about my concerns that were quite specific, always professional. I am in the sales and service business, and would not survive long with this level of customer service. I am really torn about applying my engineering knowledge to fix K2 issues, for their benefit and at my expense.

phone cons
Oops. Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/rotflmao.gif

The sad part about all this is that K2 really does look to have a very nice product, and if they can manage to work out these issues (and maybe compensate you guys that are helping to fix the problems) they really will do very well. They have to step up to the plate and get involved though.

On here as well, it is not uncommon to have Art from ArtSoft, Mariss from Gecko Drives, etc - post on this forum in response to questions/concerns/etc. If K2 were addressing this publicly would go a long way to satisfy a lot of everyones concerns.

It sure steers me away from them at any price. I am still totally convinced that no semi massed produced product can compete with one off craftsmanship given equally designs.

They should know that there are a number of people (myself included), interested in their product, that are watching this thread to see if they'll comment on the problems. They should be made aware of this site and this thread in particular (if they aren't already). Their silence is costing them sales.

Dave

I was just about to purchase their KG-5050 myself. But now im starting to have 2nd thoughts.

You know that I think I am going to prove the above post true and build a 50X50 router. Seems that with some minimal equipment (a 7X10 lathe, a taig mill and a drill press) I could come up with a high performance commercial grade router.

Now where is my pencil. ;)

One way I looked at this whole thing is you are presenting a product over the internet that I cannot go look at and I cannot touch. You also don't have a history of many users. I think we are some of the first. So the information you present must be accurate, true and percise. THIS IS ALL WE HAVE TO GO ON. If the information is not what it seems then I feel as I have been "taken." Looking at their site I would easily believe the product is A+. Looking at the videos I would believe the same. When I bought the Sherline I expected a top notch product, the history of their line told me so. When I got the product I was more then happy. Even after the 3-4 years now I would still say Sherline has an EXCELLENT line.

One thing I noticed right away is K2 mention Thompson ballscrews on their site but Nook were sent with the machine. Now the way I look at it as a newbie to ballscrews is why did they change. Heck, I don't know the difference from one ballscrew to the next but my throught process is they used the Nook because they must be cheaper. I don't know. I only have the website to go from. So they really need to update that now. My point again is, since the ONLY thing we have to go off of to buy their product is the site it must be as accurate as possible. Since these are percision machines there shipping must change and a part list be made next to top priority. Get the basics done because before you know it you will be over your head.

I am also a little surprised K2 has not commented on anything either. Heck, maybe they don;t know but I don't feel it is my job to let them know about this thread. I feel my feedback was very honest and free. They advertise here, know about my website, etc.

Again, I think they have a good nitch in the cnc community and all they have to say is "we are working very hard to make sure each machine is 100% accurate, we have addressed all of these issues first hand and have changed our....." and I am sure many would be happy. It really takes very little.

taus

I can say that the machine I got from them didn't have any issues with it than again it's a completely different construction. The only issuse I had is the couplers were not the right size for my stepper motors and I have to re-bore them to fit. Other wise I was pleased with it, and them. You're re-view was very honest and great to see all your detailed input to back-up your statments.

Hey Paul,

Thanks. Again, I am not interested in downing any company but am interested in an honest view at the product. We have all see pointless threads of "flaming" without any rhyme or reason.

hey by the way, when I click on a link from another post to see it or a picture it opens a new window and I have to re-log in to that window to see it. Any way to fix that or is something not set right on my computer (cookies?).

thanks
taus

Taus, for the money you spent on the machine...I think you have every right to be upset...even extremely upset. If I made a part like the mounting block at work, I would have to eat the cost and make another. That is some of the worst workman ship I have seen. The thing has a radius like it was loaded sideways...horrible.

I'm wondering how they make these machines in the first place. At my shop we have a set of prints for every job. We have assembly sheets for the prints, and a final assembly print. Every print has a Bill of materials, surface finish, tolerance values, etc. What do these guys use? Napkins?

If they don't want to give away tolerances or whatever they could send the prints without the call outs. That would at least give you the name of whatever it is that you are having a problem with. It seems to me that they don't even have prints. For the money you're spending there should be a Bill of Materials at LEAST.

You haven't been spoiled by Sherline. That is a classic example of a real company. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip and you can't GROW a tree in Lava. Their excuse of "growing" is LAME, and IMO your giving K2 the benefit of the doubt by not dropping the hammer as you should.

Are there any formally educated engineers at K2? I'm just curious.

Hey Nonorginal,

I love the name :) I agree and see your point. I gave them the benefit of the doubt when I got the pooly made KT-2525. If you think the block was poorly made check out my site for the Kt-2525 pics here (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/cncrouter.htm). They gave me pretty good discount on the KG-3925 so it did show they where trying. I would be much more upset if I paid full price. I just don't see how being pissed will help me. I am more interested in making the machine work and for the most part (95%) it is working very well. Again, I am posting the bad and the ugly mostly. There is a lot of nice things about the machine too. Problem is many of the very important pieces (ballnut mounting blocks) are not cut well. I think if one was using the servo motors or very strong steppers they may never notice since it would just power thorugh. I have removed all of the ballnut/leadscrew mounts and all axis move very smoothly over their entire travel. At least the tracks are all "perfectly" parallel...now that would have pissed me off :) K2 says they test the machine before shipping, that is hard for me to believe...unless they just look "past" the mistakes. If they tested my KT-2525 before shipping they should have thrown up as the bent leadscrews whiped around at 30 inch per min travel.

As for "growing" I understand that in a customer satisfaction standpoint but I do not agree on a machining standpoint. You should not be selling percision machines and still growing. Either you make them well or you don't sell them untill the product has been fully tested (well then again there is microsoft...). I understand there will be design changes but the machining should still be good. I did question at one point if K2 was run in a "backyard garage." As for "dropping the hammer" I am not sure what more I can do, in a mature fashion, than post the good/bad and ugly of my experience. As Paul mentioned everything I see/claim is backed with pics, etc.
Many others that have contributed to this post have also seen some of the same issues I have.

This post will either help others not buy a k2 machine, make sure they stay on k2's butt to get a "perfect" machine, and/or inspire k2 to make some quick changes to their setups or drop their prices.

taus

Ok, today is my day off so you can bet I plan to get something done :) Back to the machine. Well back to cleaning my basement really. I spoke to Mariss at Geckodrive yesterday and he was so helpful. He calculated stuff in his head that I don't even know how to do on a calculator :)

This may sound simple but one of the major problems I was having with speed is I did not restart the computer to let Mach2 reset the "engine." I have found I can get to about 35000 freq but if I set it at 45000 it freezes up. I am running a 890 mhz with 128 ram, windows 2000. I assume the ram is just to little? I also remembered, after reading some posts here, if the power wires are more then 1 foot away from the Gecko you are to use a capacitor. Since I could not find any, I moved the geckos to the supply last night. I can't tell a difference but assume there is some.

Hope to cut something today and post some pics.
taus

Hi Taus,
I've been enjoying your thread (s). I noticed your comments on Mach2 or 3.

This is what Art said regarding speed selection.....

"There is one rule. If your velocity slider on any motor is maxed out
upwards in 25Khz, and you want more speed, then bump the kernal. Otherwise,
always stay at 25Khz. Always use "Enahanced Pulsing" as well. There is no
benifit to not using enhanced and no drawback to using it. There is a
performance degradation of your CPU in higher kernalk speeds, so the lower
you can use the better.
I have found it is human nature for people to see the 45Khz mode and turn
it on even if it is not required. This is a huge mistake. If your motor
cannot go that fast, then it wastes vast resources by having it set too
high. Always use the lowest kernal speed you can get away with. In the case
of servos that will go fast, 45Khz is not a problem, if you need it, you
need it, but trust me, stay low and be happy if you can. GUI performance is
90% faster in 25Khz vs 45Khz. Servo users get fast speed, but laggy windows,
25Khz people get all the speed they need, AND fast windows.

(One of those compromises we all get used to..._"

Hope this helps,
Bloy (john)

Ok, today is my day off so you can bet I plan to get something done :)
Hope to cut something today and post some pics.
taus

In two weeks I plan on having my machine done too...so I took a week and a half off of work (Gotta love PTO) to play with it. :D

Looking forward to some pictures!

Hey Bloy2004,

I notice you have sheetcam as your icon. Very nice. I downloaded the demo version and it works well. I am wanting more speed, really I am wanting steppers that just don't lock up occasionally. I notice they sometime both lock up at the same time....so it must be something else then mechanical. The ballscrews, now that the mouting blocks have been modified, run quite free. I am really getting quite happy with the machine.

I cut a part just now...the smae tauscnc faster and it worked well. I was thinking of going to servo motors but am sure they have their drawbacks too. Maybe someday when I fully upgrade I will. For now, I will put it back to 25000 and enjoy the machine.

Come on JavaDog, get that machine rolling!

thanks
taus

There is supposed to be an upcoming contest for a logo (or image) for sheetcam and I had so much fun with everyone else doing the Mach3 splash screen, (alas, I didn't win), that I've made my avatar for promoting the contest. I'm not affiliated with it, but it IS a good program.

I'm just wondering WHEN the contest will commence!

I missed out on the Gecko contest :(

Hey guys,

How are you holding pieces down? I can't do the same setup as Chamn128 with the vaccume table (even though I love your setup!) because the KG-3925 has the center leadscrew. Are you guys just milling in slots for T-nuts? Just drilling holes and putting in screws where ever....any ideas?

thanks
taus

tauscnc
"One thing I noticed right away is K2 mention Thompson ballscrews on their site but Nook were sent with the machine. Now the way I look at it as a newbie to ballscrews is why did they change. Heck, I don't know the difference from one ballscrew to the next but my throught process is they used the Nook because they must be cheaper. I don't know. I only have the website to go from. So they really need to update that now. My point again is, since the ONLY thing we have to go off of to buy their product is the site it must be as accurate as possible. Since these are percision machines there shipping must change and a part list be made next to top priority. Get the basics done because before you know it you will be over your head. "

I agree tauscnc. I too don't know one ballscrew from the next, but I have bought other Thompson products and have always liked the quality and that was one of the reason's why I purchased the KG3925 machine. The Nook brand may be 5 times better for all I know but they still shouldn't say on their website it will be one brand then it be another without first telling the buyer. I have been really busy lately with work and other activities and trying to work on the router when I get a chance. I got it together but all I have done so far is attach a marker to it and draw basic shapes. I will try to post some pictures later tonight.

Well, nothing really made last night. My motors keep stalling in the middle of jogs...the funny thing is all of them will stall so I know it is not a power issue. I am trying to run them faster but I note they also stall at the 25000 setting on Mach 2. I have turned off the constant velocity and that helped. After I read the manual some more it says to only turn on the enhanced pulsing if your using a 1.2 GHz or more, so I turned that off too. I only have 128 ram on this comp running windows 2000 so I ordered 128 more. I will see if that is the problem.

If not, I am gonna sell my almost new Geckos 201s and get a servo setup. My luck, that won't be any better :)

I was checking over more things on the machine and I think I have ran out of concerns :wee: The front plate might be a little high but I will have to check to see if that happened when I put it together. I have not done a FULL backlash check or straightness check (getting lazy) but it is running well. I still think I would of perferred the leadscrews over the ballscrews.

I still need to make some wipers and I also want to notch the front plate so I can easily insert t-nuts.

taus

Aww...I was really hoping to see some fresh-cut chips! Get cutting! Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/pokinit.gif

Taus,

If you are in my area, I would be more than willing to come over and help with what I can. I don't have the K2 machine, but rather my own creation and have gotten pretty experienced at tuning my machine with MACX3 so it will run good. I am in northern IL - between Chicago and Rockford along I90.

Chris









Well, nothing really made last night. My motors keep stalling in the middle of jogs...the funny thing is all of them will stall so I know it is not a power issue. I am trying to run them faster but I note they also stall at the 25000 setting on Mach 2. I have turned off the constant velocity and that helped. After I read the manual some more it says to only turn on the enhanced pulsing if your using a 1.2 GHz or more, so I turned that off too. I only have 128 ram on this comp running windows 2000 so I ordered 128 more. I will see if that is the problem.

If not, I am gonna sell my almost new Geckos 201s and get a servo setup. My luck, that won't be any better :)

I was checking over more things on the machine and I think I have ran out of concerns :wee: The front plate might be a little high but I will have to check to see if that happened when I put it together. I have not done a FULL backlash check or straightness check (getting lazy) but it is running well. I still think I would of perferred the leadscrews over the ballscrews.

I still need to make some wipers and I also want to notch the front plate so I can easily insert t-nuts.

taus

Well, nothing really made last night. My motors keep stalling in the middle of jogs...the funny thing is all of them will stall so I know it is not a power issue. I am trying to run them faster but I note they also stall at the 25000 setting on Mach 2. I have turned off the constant velocity and that helped. After I read the manual some more it says to only turn on the enhanced pulsing if your using a 1.2 GHz or more, so I turned that off too. I only have 128 ram on this comp running windows 2000 so I ordered 128 more. I will see if that is the problem.


How fast is your computer? You might want to try Mach3. Even though it is technically a work in progress, it is supposedly very stable. Ballendo has mentioned on the Yahoo group that Mach3 seems to run smoother for him on a 500Mhz PC. Also, art recently said that there is no reason NOT to use enhanced pulsing, but that may be for Mach3 as well. Have you tried lowering your acceleration a little?

If your ballscres ar 5tpi, and your Geckos are set to 10 microsteps, 25,000 Hz should be good for 150ipm. If your steppers can spin at 750rpm under load.


OK, I just looked at your website, and it looks like you are gearing your steppers at 2:1. I'm pretty sure that's your problem. By spinning your steppers twice as fast, they probably have a LOT less torque. And, you'll be limited to 75Iipm at 25Khz. Gearing steppers may make sense on a milling machines, where feed speeds are much slower, but for a router, direct drive (or 1:1 gearing )makes more sense. I'd try that before going the servo route. You might even want to try swapping the pulleys around and see if that makes a difference. I've heard a lot of people recommend 2tpi screws on routers, and swapping your pulleys would get you close to that.

Hey Gerry,

Thanks for the input. I did try a one to one ratio and it was faster...but that is to be expected. I am 99% positive it has nothing to do with the power of the motors. I have a 900 mhz windows 2000, soon to be 256 ram.

If I gear is direct drive or the other way around won't my resolution be much lower. I am not sure what is really "over kill anyway." My Sherline is direct and 400 pulses made 1 mm movement (half step). So the way I look at this is, you cut a mm into 400 separte sections...thats a lot! Now It seems to me, with microstepping I am at 787.40 steps per mm. Even more. I will try it the other way around and let you know how it goes tonight. What is good resolution for cutting?

I will also get a copy of mach 3 to try out.

Other then that I have tired a lot of things from 25000 to 45000 on mach 2, full out and slower accel and feeds.

Lets say I jog the machine (XY) it will be moving right along and then out of nowhere it will stall but BOTH axis will stall. Let me try a few things and I will report back.

taus

O MY GOD!!! This thing is rocking!!! :banana:

I switched the pullies and it moves. IT MOVES!! I also went to 25000 kz on the computer, and moved the speed to the most I could get. It has not STALLED once...and the motors sound so much better! ITS CRUSING!!! I might just try it on the 35000 kz setting for fun hehehe :)

I will have to take a movie of it... AWESOME!!!! So this is what 150 or 200 or whatever ipm feels like :eek:

Just gotta fine tune it now.

Here is a movie (sorry it is in quicktime ) MOVIE (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/cncrouter.htm) Go to the bottom.

taus

:) :wee:

Taus,

That does rock!

You'll be going to sleep happy tonight :wave:

:wee: My first sucessful part. No missing steps (that I can tell), blazing rapid and just cool to watch! I made a sign for my daughter's room. She is only 4.5 months old and hopefully will keep this forever :)

Here are some pics.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/Mileah1.jpg)
I ran out of wood so I stole one of those wooden TV trays :D. I used clamps to mount it to the table. Simple and quick.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/Mileah2.jpg)
Here is a picture of it just cut. :p I used a 1/8" endmill with a shank of 3/8." I turned a "collect" for the shank to fit in the 1/2" Porter Cable router. 2 passes at 3 mm deep. No backlash compensation...I haven't even measured it yet.

PICTURE 3 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/Mileah3.jpg)
Here it is almost done. I used my table saw to cut the sides off. I am going to use the router and table to dress up the edges. It is almost 18 inches long.

I am loving it!

taus

You didn't mention what the lead on your ballscrews is. I'm assuming 5tpi, correct?

When using microstepping, you shouldn't use the microstepping step size to determine your resolution. Depending on the load on the machine, your steppers may not move until it recieves several microsteps. Read this for more info. http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/viewSelectedArticle.asp?strArticleId=56361&strSite=MDSite

When determining resolution using microstepping, figure that half step is the resolution you'll be getting.

So if your now geared 1:2, that should be 400 (half steps) x 5 (tpi), or 2000 steps per inch, divided by 2 (1:2). This would give you .001 resolution for every half step.

.001 is fine for routing wood, and it's the tradeoff you have to make to get high speeds from steppers.

Glad you got everything working good.

That came out great!! Very nice indeed...bet it feels good to be making chips with this machine after everything!!

Wow, really nice sign. What program did you use to generate the code?

Dave

Here is a few pics I promised in my last post. I haven't had a chance to post them untill now. It's a few I took just after I got it together and started testing it. I have only done a few test with a marker and paper so far. But Im just about ready to try out the router in some wood. The pic of the circle was the first thing I did. I was in such a hurry to see it do something I just took a few of the setup papers I had and taped them down to the table top. The paper that says Janelle & Robbie was one I did tonight. I think it turned out pretty good considering I was using a marker that was bleeding all over the place and it was only held on with masking tape. tauscnc im glad to see your making some chips with yours. Your pieces are turning out really good.

Hey guys!

Thanks for the nice words on the sign. I already have requests from the family. I want one, I want one :)

Hey Gerry,
Sorry to get back to you so late. The ballscrew is 5tpi and 2000 full steps for 1 inch (0.2) movement. I am staring to understand this whole microstepping thing and how it may or may now work. So far I am really happy with the change in setup you suggested. Thanks man!

Hey Ursine,
I use (mostly) rhino3d for the cad and I use many for the cam. I have a small arsenal of programs :) Check out my page for many that I have tried/use http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/programs.htm I use anything from meshcam, sheetcam, deskcnc, cncwizard, Flashcut and I have asscess to an older version of mastercam. Surfcam is really nice too! Bobcad and Gibbscam look very nice but I found them a little difficult. Visualmill is also very nice as is Rams. Don't forget to check out Ninos and also another program that I just found out about http://www.cncsoft.com/. I almost find it fun to learn them all, real, demos, with or without manuals. I also have simply drawn out the toolpath (in rhino) and used a simple converter. For the driver, I have cncpro but now use Mach2 which I am still trying to learn.

Hey Robbie (cncrob),
Great going. Glad to see the work. I noticed the servo setup there. Keep me informed on how that works out. My steppers are doing well but I think I am going to go to 1 to 1 ratio for a little more percision. The speed is great. I think one thing you will need is an enclosure or something around the machine especially once you dig into the wood. It is going to go everywhere!

Keep us informed on how things go.

taus

Hey Mark ( and guys)

Hope all had a wonderful mother’s day.

Sorry to again hear about your beat up machine. I still think K2 should just send the machine disassembled and provided some documentation on how to just put it together. It's really quite simple. Soon they will learn after enough complaints about dented machines. Again, its really dumb to get a "precision" machine all busted up. Hopefully you will get some of that money back.

BALLSCREWS:
Now, let me remind you this is my first ballscrew machine and my first experience with them. I was amazed at how noisy they were. I have just gotten used to the noise. The Z axis is silent… almost sounding slick. The ballscrews still sound “rough” but the machine does not seem to have much resistance (after I got the mounting blocks squared).

Squaring the base…I have the same question but just never posted it. I am interested to hear the comments.

Not sure about the router but I know you can buy a spacer for the ¼” collect for the porter cable. I just turned one in aluminum and its working well. I don’t think there are many options.

Check out mach2’s site on yahoo groups. There is a post processor for mastercam there.

At this time I don’t use soft limits or limit switches. That is next on the plate.

Here some more pics of my setup and another sign I made last night.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches1.jpg)
I bought the solid state relay board from cnc4pc.com. Very nice. The heatsinks are really cheesy but the thing works great. Now I have spindle control :) Again, this is all on the "waterloo" or kobalt workbench.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches.jpg)

PICTURE OF WOODEN SIGNS (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/woodensigns.htm)

I have the Hitachi 12V router and I am looking for a 1/8th collet without using the spacer collet in a 1/4 inch unit. Does anyone make a ope-piece (no adaptor) 1/8th collet? Will a Porter Cable or Makita work in a Hatachi?



You can by this ER collet with a 1/2" shank to hold smaller bits. Not cheap, though. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9925

Hey Tauscnc,
Was that relay board preassembled or did you have to assemble it. Im thinking about getting one myself.

Here some more pics of my setup and another sign I made last night.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches1.jpg)
I bought the solid state relay board from cnc4pc.com. Very nice. The heatsinks are really cheesy but the thing works great. Now I have spindle control :) Again, this is all on the "waterloo" or kobalt workbench.

Can you give some detail on how you wired up the switchplate with the relay board for your router?

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/switches.jpg)

PICTURE OF WOODEN SIGNS (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/woodensigns.htm)

Again, those came out excellent. Any post-CNC work you have to do? Really nice and fun design. Could make a killing with those at a State Fair!! :D

Hey Tauscnc,

Let me know if you want to try a 3D carving. I have done some and still have the G-code :)

Hey guys,

Hey,
The relay board is assembled and looks good. The heatsinks are "handcut" but work fine (from what I can tell). It has 4 relays. One that can handle 13 amps and 3 that can handle 5 amps. This is for AC devices ONLY. It was pretty easy to setup, getting the settings right in Mach2 took me longer (still learning).

As for setup it is really easy. I used +5 volts from the computer's regulated power supply. I am also using this +5 for the Geckos. I found I did not need to put in the - 5...must be grounded through the pins, etc.

I used pin 1 and pin 17 that go right into one part of the board. The other part has the +5 volts part. On the other side you put the AC device. Just like an "on/off" switch .One AC goes to the router, the other AC to the board. Then connect the other router wire to the board. When it clicks the AC goes through the relay and into the router. WORKS GREAT!!!!! I can post some more pics when I get home. I did not want to cut my router's wire so I put in the plug.

Hey Jeff,
That is too funny. I was going to send you a personal email letting you know how awesome those cnc carvings you did. I was just at your site yesterday. Beautiful work :banana: I am interested in trying some 3D, I have not done any yet.

I was playing around with MeshCAM (http://www.grzsoftware.com/) last night and the more I used it the cooler the program became. It converts a jpeg, etc. file well!! I will keep you posted Jeff. It's something about me just wanting to do my first 3D on my own :) If I crush the machine, don't worry, I'll be calling ya!

OO, I forgot, for the boards. There is clean up work. I used a straight router and did one cut at 5mm at about 60-70 ipm (if mach2 is right). I find the wood sometimes frays and I then use a dremel with a stone wheel to "clean it up." The pictures make them look flawless but you can see some of the tool marks, etc. Overall, they look great (white pine was used on the newest one).

Good work guys!

taus

I was wondering how many steps per inch you guys with the upgraded z axis were using, Thanks-Robbie

Hey Robbie,

K2 says 2000 FULL steps per 1 so if your microstepping then won't it be 20,000 steps? That sounds like a LOT of steps. I am running mine in mm and I am using 787.40157 (2000/2.54) steps per mm on the Z. I think the upgraded and regular axis have the same leadscrew just different bearings. If your using the Gecko's I think you can just run the 2000 steps.

You know there really should be something about not posting when you just don't know the answer but heck I don't know that either . :drowning:

K2 Owners...

I suggest taking your machine right down to the nut and bolt. I just went through mine and found a ton of loose screws. Another thing that concerns me is the use of metric and american screws, in the same area! At the end of the rails, I have a metric and an american allen head bolt securing the end cap aluminum. Things that make ya go ....hhhmmm????

I took the main uprights to the gantry and machined them down level with the angled plate. ( I will post pics later). This gave me a full 25.25" of Y allowing a nice wide base plate that will protect the X linear slides. Plus, my material comes in 25 inch widths, now I can throw it straight on the machine.

Hey Millmore,

Good to hear from you. It is interesting as we hear more and more about the different experiences from people. The screws that were sent with mine, at least the ones I saw, seemed to be all American size. It seems like quality control is a major issue at K2 and no 2 machine are alike.

I would be very interested in seeing some pics of the way you modified things to get more use and your setup.

Did you get any money back from that shipping company?

later,
taus

Hi Tauseef,

Yea... its weird, I am using 4 + 5 mm hex wrenches as well as 5/32 wrenches. In one case, near the end of the flat bed area where the aluminum flat cap bolts on... it is held on with 4 bolts that go into the long aluminum rails. 1 of the 4 is 5-32 wrench (the 4mm won't fit), the other 3 use a 4 mm hex wrench that fits perfect. Maybe it is just poor screw tolerances.

In any case, I am happy with the machine. However, looking at the machine apart, it appears that it would be fairly easy to make yourself at about half the price. It is a really simple, but effective design.

I put in a large claim with the shipper, they haven't replied yet.

I'll get some pics up soon.

Mark

Hi Everyone,
I tryed setting up my maching like the K2 website said, I set up the z axis for 20000 steps per inch and when I would tell it to move 1 inch it would move almost 4 inches, and with the faster speed setting my z-axis sounds like crap. If I try to go over 100 inches per minute it starts to sound terrible. Is it like that with your machines also or is it just mine?

Hey Robbie,
Try 2000 and see. If it is moving 4 inches for every inch that should do it. I bet they have the steps per movement wrong on the site. That has to work because I based my mm movement on 2000. My X axis sounds pretty rough but the Y is a little less noisy. Again the Z is silk. I think that is just how these ballscrews sound.

Remember the sign I made for my little girl? Well her grandma painted it this weekend and it really looks great. Here it is.

PICTURE OF PAINTED SIGN (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/painted.jpg)

I also spent sometime trying to get a key chain made for mother's day. Got it done today :) 5th try. Some how the 5th one is the carm for me. I crushed one engraving bit to death. This machine cuts aluminum much better then the sherline...it must be the spindles greater horse power.

Here is the KEY CHAIN PICTURES (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/keychain.htm) It took me sometime to get the whole tool change thing figured out. I also had to hold the pice a little as the aluminum I used must of been bent. I just gotta get a photo picture now.

taus :wee:

Taus,
nice work! And I like how you record everything with your pictorials!
Looks like you are ready for some production runs....you sure got your machine up and running fast.

Bloy

Hey Tauseef,
What kind of grease are you useing in the grease fittings?

Hey Robbie,

When you say in the grease fittings I assume you mean in the linear bearing and not the ballnuts ?? If so I have not touched the linear bearing and really don't know what grease to use.

For the ballnuts I just used Vaseline. After I cleaned out the ballnuts I just put some on the ballscrew and had it run over it. I still have to put on some wipers...I bet that is another reason why the X axis sounds so gritty....stuff getting into the ballscrews.

taus

Taus,
nice work! And I like how you record everything with your pictorials!
Looks like you are ready for some production runs....you sure got your machine up and running fast.

Bloy

I agree, It's hard to beleave we got our machines the same day. Tauseef has really blown me away. Im still pretty much at the testing and learning stages and Tauseef has already made some really great looking pieces.

:p I don't sleep :eek:

Hi, k2cnc users,
is k2cnc still in business?
What troubles me is that, after a month from payment, no machine received and no answer to my mail.
Can someone help me?

Hi ciccio,

Non ti preoccupare...don't worry, I spoke to them last week, they're still there (as far as I know). They're probably just busy. I would give them a phone call.

Carlo

Grazie Carlo
puoi farmi sapere? Can you please let me know what is going on?
thank you

Yes they are spoke to Ron yesterday.
Steve

this is " customer support " !!!!!
Any info appreciated. Please help me.

this is " customer support " !!!!!
Any info appreciated. Please help me.

Try calling K2CNC direct. No one posting here works for them, better to get it straight from the horses mouth. :)

Try calling K2CNC direct. No one posting here works for them, better to get it striaght from the horses mouth. :)

Thanks, JavaDog.
But if it is impossible to have an answer to my e-mails, what do you suggest?
Are kliboon@k2cnc.com and ron@k2cnc.com the right address?
Thank you for help.

Just call Ron and he will get back to you (at least he did with me). "This is your customer support," that's funny and sad and really true.

taus :stickpoke

I think they should either start answering their email or get a 800 number.

Another K2 buyer writes me.

I just got another email from another guy that just got his KT-2525 and has the SAME problems mine did. He can also fit a piece of paper in the bearings, the machine also has dents due to shipping, and he said he waited a long time. My answer, demand your money back in full and let us know here. The fact that people are writing me for their K2 problems REALLY shows their communication is 0 (ZERO). As I suggested in my personal letter to K2, they really need to put some literature in there shipments so people know where contact them and TO contact them. The website and email is just not cutting it.

K2 you have another unhappy customer.. some major issues to figure out!! I now say buyer beware

It's unfortunate but seems really repetitive.
taus

P.S. In an attempt to help out I have email Ron at K2 (5-14-05) to make him aware that his customers are writing me and of this thread.

Paolo -Italy,

This is Ron Liboon with K2CNC. I am very sorry. We have tried often to contact you via email. Please feel free to call me 714-999-1156 or give me a contact number so that I may contact you. We are still in business. Unfortunately we only have your email address for your contact info. The machine has been shipped out Monday and you should receive it in ten days or so. USPS. We had to ship the machine in a smaller box than what we are accustomed to. Please call us so that I may provide you with the tracking number.

I hope to hear from you so that I answer any of your questions.

Thank You for informing me - Tauseef

Sincerely,
Ron Liboon



Hi, k2cnc users,
is k2cnc still in business?
What troubles me is that, after a month from payment, no machine received and no answer to my mail.
Can someone help me?

Dear Users,

This is Ron Liboon with K2 CNC. I hope to make all of CNCzone users and K2 CNC customers more than satisfied with our product and service. We are working hard to make positive adjustments to provide the best customer service, support and products.

K2 CNC as a new company has focused it machines to be shipped UPS, USPS and FED Ex. These shipping companies have dimensions and weight parameters/requirements. As information is communicated to me and the company about shipping, I and the staff are working hard to find better ways of shipping the machines.

There is always room for adjustments. K2cnc is willing to change to make those needed improvements to make all of our customers happy. We are modifying some parts as a result of our customer's feedback.

Extra care in shipping also comes with extra expenses for the customer. The company is currently working on better freight companies and better shipping arrangements while keeping down the shipping cost.

K2 CNC is a growing company with customer service as a priority. Please direct your concerns about service support and products received to ron@k2cnc.com.

K2 CNC does provide a satisfaction guaranty.

Ron Liboon
K2 CNC

Hi Ron,

I am glad to see you here and your quick response to my email. I think it is very important for people to realize K2 is, in fact, 100% behind their products. I will be the first to admit is has been a long road with you guys.

I again, Strongly, advise you to ship your machines disassembled. The one you guys sent to me partially assembled was "PERFECT." Not one scratch or dent. Getting a percision machine all dented up is not good. Just include some information on putting it together (it pretty much just goes together anyway) and I think your shipping issues will be coming to an end.

Include some literature with your machine and get a part list on your site. A "thank you for choosing us" note would also be a nice touch and goes a very long way. People are just looking for good service as you can tell we don't mind paying the price of the machine.

Check over your machining, g-code, fixutures as the pictures I have taken of my machine (KT-2525 and KG-3925) show great issues of concern.

My offer to help make a part list for the KG-3925 still stands. Email off line if your interested.

Take care
taus

Hi Ron,

I am glad to see you here and your quick response to my email. I think it is very important for people to realize K2 is, in fact, 100% behind their products. I will be the first to admit is has been a long road with you guys.

I again, Strongly, advise you to ship your machines disassembled. The one you guys sent to me partially assembled was "PERFECT." Not one scratch or dent. Getting a percision machine all dented up is not good. Just include some information on putting it together (it pretty much just goes together anyway) and I think your shipping issues will be coming to an end.

Include some literature with your machine and get a part list on your site. A "thank you for choosing us" note would also be a nice touch and goes a very long way. People are just looking for good service as you can tell we don't mind paying the price of the machine.

Check over your machining, g-code, fixutures as the pictures I have taken of my machine (KT-2525 and KG-3925) show great issues of concern.

My offer to help make a part list for the KG-3925 still stands. Email off line if your interested.

Take care
taus


Despite all the setbacks, you still give them props. Classy move taus. Thanks! And welcome to the forum, k2cnc (Ron)!

Carlo

Glad to see you on here Ron, sure you will see we are a pretty friendly bunch. ;)

One note on shipping...stay FAR away from DHL. They may be cheap, but they really are bad at handling anything heavy/fragile. My best experiences are with FedEx. Although, you may want to check out the UPS-MI program - they do a local handoff to the USPS, I beleive it is a bit more cost effective.

Hey Carlo,

Yeah. It's like a double edge sword. On one hand it is very upsetting to have to go though this to get a good machine. On the other hand I hate to see them go down hill. Time will tell really. My goal with this thread is still to give an honest review without emotions involved.

I have a completely different outlook on this whole thing then probably many others. We (my wife and I) took over a 31 year old practice and are now in our 7th month of business. The senior doctor pretty much took off without telling anyone and patient transition has been "fun" to say the least. We have the daily headaches of a new business and also make our share of "mistakes." For example, I am finally getting Medicare checks back to patients that have now been waiting 7 months (many very patiently...luckly) due to having to wait for our numbers, learning how to fully submit (Medicare themself coudn't help me..go figure), etc. So I really do "understand" and see the "mistakes" differently now. For use to suceed we have to have the best customer service anywhere and that is my goal. Little things go a long way. Hopefully K2 will also step up to the plate and get the things they need done very soon.

Beside, I just don't see this as something else I need to come home to and be upset about. For me, this cnc stuff is for enjoyment and I want to keep it that way.

BTW Carlo, have you gotten your machine yet...I don't remember.

taus

BTW Carlo, have you gotten your machine yet...I don't remember.

taus


I going on a 6 week holiday in a week. The machine is ready to ship right now according to Kevin, but I want to be here when it arrives to make sure there isn't any damage in shipping ;) . I'm going to send them the $$ a week before I get back and have them ship it then. If I plan it right, I'll be getting out of my car as the UPS guy pulls into the driveway :D

Thanks to cnc-zone and to you all for the help.
Hi, Ron - K2cnc.
Sorry, now I have another problem :
I ordered and payed ONE machine, and you sent me THREE !!!
The one you promised me "before moving"
Another one you sent me more than one month ago
This one you sent me on monday.
Nothing arrived yet:I cross my fingers.....
My e-mail address is always the same I used to order and pay.
My phone - fax is IT 0175 79598
As JavaDog suggest, "Please resist the urge to curse", at least, till possible !
Again: thanks to all.

Well as usual I have some new news on K2. I have posted the bad and some of the good too and this time I am posting just GOOD. :banana:

I got a package from K2 today out of the blue...mind you I did not contact them at all but Ron or Kevin must of read this entire thread and visited my site and have mailed me (free of charge) 2 new mounts for the X and Y ballscrews.

If you recall I had to modify mine to get them to work right. I am excited to go home and try them out.

Still no instructions on how to replace the part (even though I know) or any "personal letter" but K2 seems to be going toward the right track. Man, can I be picky :)

taus

Hi, Taus,
you are a lucky boy !
Here in NW Italy it is a cold rainy night.
I'm still waiting for a fax, a mail, a carrier pidgeon with some good or bad new about my machine ( K2 people, can you please send me the tracking number of my expedition in whatever way you choose?)

My fax : +39 0175 79598
My e-mail: paulallison at tiscali.it ( please use @ for "at" )

I just received a package from K2CNC today also. It was the piece I wrote about in another post in this thread, the piece that had the bad threads in it. The package also contained a few screws that were missing. Its touches like that; that can make them a really great company!

Sorry, we are italian.
You know, we are a little primitive.
Here in Italy to have missing parts, or to have a defective part replaced by vendor / builder is a right state guaranteed ( garanzia del prodotto).
Also a supply contract ( contratto di fornitura) is a contract state guaranteed, and not a bufoonery.
Is it the same on K2cnc land?
Still waiting for a fax or e-mail : is it my right to know , after payment?

In K2land your sometimes lucky to even get what you pay for, even more so to get missing parts or defective part replaced. Especially over the internet. Im talking about K2land and not K2CNC itself.

This is ron,

I called and left a message on the number 011 39 0175 79598. The recording was in itallian. I have been on the phone for the last 20 minutes with USPS. The informed me that I have to go to the USPS direct and talk to them to get status of your shippment. Their store front is closed right now. I will go to the USPS location and lookinto the matter. Let me know if you got the message.

Ron

Hey Tauseef,
Just wondering if you have been working on any new projects lately, Thanks-Robbie

Hey Robbie,

Good to hear from you. I have slowed down quite a bit :eek: but today I got the bug again to make something. I have not tired the new parts K2 sent…the ones I modified are working well and I will look into changing them out on the next rebuild…that hopefully won’t be for sometime.

On my project list is to make a new mirror holder for the office as well as a brochure and magazine holder. I also need to make a very custom holder for our contact lens solutions for my exam room. Nothing to much RC yet. I am getting the itch to try a 3D file and have been playing with MeshCAM more and more. O yeah, I still need to make some more signs for the family…that will never end :)

I also really need to make a holder for the Dremel tool so I can use it with the very small bits instead of the router. I also want to make a "free floating" holder for my vinly cutting blade (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/vinyl.htm) so I can cut stickers.

I was kicking the idea of trying to make a grandfather clock (just the wooden part) but I think I should get my small projects done first before I even attempt something that huge!

O yeah, one more thing. I am going to make an “exhaust” hood for our kitty litter pan and put a small 12V fan into it that vents outside. Kitty litter smell and CNC just don’t mix :)

The biggest problem I have is getting my lazy butt to the hardware store to get the wood. The other is the endless task of how to hold the part to the machine.

How about you. What projects are you working on?

taus

As I mentioned I got a package from K2 out of the blue with 2 new mounts for the X and Y axis. To keep this thread going as a review I figured I would see how long it would take to switch out the Y and what they changed. Of course, here are pictures.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/4-29-05/shimball.jpg)

Here is the original mount.

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/onepiecey.jpg)

Here you can see the new mount. It is simpler and removed a total of 5 parts (to aluminum and 3 screws). This mount fits Perfectly…just like my other one did with the shim. I am able to push the Y axis and get the ballscrew to turn by hand (no motor connected). I am quite happy. Simple and it works.

PICTURE 3 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/onepiecey1.jpg)

Here is the mount before. The ballnut was threaded into that triangular piece first and that was bolted to the mount which in turn was then bolted to the Y axis. These have been eliminated for the one piece.

Total time to switch out was less then 5 min. I might change out the X too now…but that one will take some time.

I have not cut anything on the machine today but I did finally cut the grass. :wee: Good stuff.

taus

Good to see they are improving...with your help! ;)

Deleted, please see next post.

I wish they would send me some of the new mounts. I may have to contact them about it.

Ok,

Now I am totally and utterly pissed :boxing: . I will still refrain from cursing as much as I would love to say what I truly feel. I have tired to be understanding, I have tired to give them free feedback, I have tried to be even more understanding but now K2 YOUR MACHINING IS HORRIBLE! I can machine better on my Sherline then you can on your hundred thousand dollar machines! :eek:

As you recall in the posts above I tried out the new, BRAND new, redesigned ball screw mounts K2 sent me. The Y Axis is next to perfect…ok, that is 1 out of 3 (remember the first Y and the X was not made well.)

So I changed out the X and it was working well…I than (later on) did a FULL travel test run and it TOTALLY binds at the end of the travel, about 5-6 inches. Thus I have deleted the post above this one as it was posted prematurely before fully testing. So I did some investigating.

Here is what I found. I first found the mount would rub up against the channel only on one side so I again, used my trusty Sherline and Flycut some off. I then found THE MOUNT IS DRILLED OFF AND IS NOT EVEN IN THE CHANNEL.

PICTURE 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/messupx1.jpg) shows hole for the ballnut is not even in the mount...don’t worry it gets better. That is 1.41mm (.555") off!

PICTURE 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/CNC%20Router/KG-3925/5-5-05/messupx.jpg) shows how the holes are NOT DRILLED IN LINE with the crossbrace. This picture is at the end of the ballscrew where deflection should be the least.

As I tightned down the mount I noted my ballscrew would buckle over to the side.

THERE YOU GO MY FULL REVIEW OF K2. SIMPLY PUT I'D SAY LOOK ELSEWHERE OR BUILD YOUR OWN, OR KNOW YOUR GETTING A PRODUCT THAT MIGHT NEED SOME GOOD TWEAKING. Sellling product like this, percision machineS...oooooo. YEAH.

I would not buy another K2 machine again. If I already had not spent so much time on fixing their errors, I'd throw it back in their face.

taus

Taus, I tried to tell you two weeks ago. You don't need to curse to say the machining looks worse than first year trade school students. What a joke.

I don't know what they are doing, but its laughable quite frankly. Sorry you went through this, but happy you are finally saying what needed to be said a long time ago. Good luck.

Yeah, your right. I really want to go and edit all of my posts just to say DON'T BUY A K2 MACHING but I can't. I tired eveything not to cruse them out a long time ago from there KT-2525 I got...what a JOKE...but there is simply no use. Now I almost feel like an idiot trying to "understand." What a fool I am.

Hopefully this thread as well as my updated webpage on the router will help people make up their own minds on weather to buy a K2 machine. I think my pictures say much more then my posts anyway.

Well I will get this fixed and move on, I am determined to continue my happiness with this CNC stuff.

Now I will spend half my time fixing the machine and the other half informing others to look elsewhere :)

taus

Damn!

DAMN!

This really sucks... I think I should cancel my order :frown:

In all fairness Taus, your account from the beggining has been quite a roaler-coaster. First elation, then despair (repeat a few times), now this.

I can sympathize with you. I think we all can. Who hasn't bought something and been totally dissapointed? However, they are learning from their mistakes (however big they may be), and the next step up for a comparably equipped machine (linear rails, ball screws etc) is probably a Larkin ($10,000) or a Techno ($12-15,000). What to do?...

Carlo

Hey Cbass,

I know what you mean. They have a nitch in the middle of the market but if they keep producing parts like this it won't last long. They will be under before you know it. I could produce better parts on my Sherline and have. You might as well keep the order and test out the machine. You should be able to do a quick review of all the probs I have had..mostly with the ballscrew mounts. If your machine is not "top notch" I say return it and get your money back...period. If not demand a discount. You could even tell them to send it and look it over...all well then send them the rest. Heck, your banking on them sending you a machine that is not dented, runs true, does not bind and sits level. All they are asking for is the rest of the payment. I bet their quality is very hit and miss. For the experience I have had so far I can say all of it is a miss.

I hope you have a better running machine. I just got done putting back the X axis with the modified mount and it is running fine again. It is louder but running without any binds. I pretty much have the machine tweaked out now.

keep us informed.

taus

Ive been following this thread since its inception and I have learned a couple of things. None has to do with K2 in particular, they seem like any start up trying to do thier best with a very technical product. Ive been in and out of technical sales all my life and every company has these types of problems. K2 seem to at least try to make things right, more than I can say about some very big high dollar outfits Ive worked with.

Before you give your money to someone it is a customers responsibility to find out exactly what theyre going to get, before they hand over the cash.

Its a vendors responsibility to find out what kind of customer they are taking money from and what that customer is expecting. Once they accept the money it is thier responsibility to meet the expectations of the customer.

The only thing wrong here between Tauseef and K2 is that you guys should have never done business together. Niether of you defined the terms and expectations properly before entering into the relationship. If K2 would have found out what Tauseef was expecting they should have known it was not within their ability to perform the way Tauseef expected. Tauseef should have known he was buying a tricky product from a new company and expected problems.

Its a shame that this thing had to turn into such an ugly mess, with two unsatisfied parties as the result.

As far as K2 goes, they seem like they are exactly what I had sized them up to be. A decent little company in a tough business, with a decent product that isn't perfect, but a good deal for the money. In five years they could have perfect product and charge ten grand instead of two, like the big boys do, if thats the direction they want to go in. But to expect that out of them at this point (and at these prices) is not realistic.

So LESSON LEARNED: Be carefull who you give yor money to, and even more carefull who you take it from.

They have a warranty. Avail yourself of it

From the K2CNC website:
Warranty Policy: 90days on all parts that are defective.

Satisfaction Guarantee Policy: 15 Days to return machine. Motors and controller can be used but not damaged. 100% Money Back on machine, motors and controller.

Assembly: Some assembly required. Due to the every changing modifications to impove all machines, All assembly of all machines are by phone or email only. Documentation is currently not availible.


I think if you are that disatisfied you should get your money back, or the problems repaired. I do think the 15 day return policy is a bit limiting and your state laws may cover you for long than 15 days. This thread started on 4-26-05 (your delivery date) and you are now approaching 30 days of ownership. So you should act with due diligence to get satisfaction. Your leagal remedies may be limited after the 30 days.

Edit:
Here is my state law summarized:

Arizona law generally imposes no duty on a merchant to make refunds or exchanges. A sale is a contract. When money and merchandise are exchanged, the contract is complete. Unless an item is defective or otherwise unsuitable for its intended purpose, the merchant generally may refuse to accept a return.

Fortunately for consumers, most retailers have a policy more charitable than the law requires. Good customer relations - not law - compels most merchants to have liberal return policies. However, a less profitable year for retailers may have some impact on these policies.

Because the law requires no return policy at all, a seller who offers only to exchange merchandise legally is within his or her rights. Purchasers or gift recipients generally cannot insist on a cash refund for items they do not want. Defective products are treated somewhat differently.

If a merchant fails to satisfy you regarding defective items, first determine your rights under any written warranty that came with the product. You may resolve the problem this way.

Do not assume, however, that a manufacturer's responsibility for its product relieves the seller of liability. The law does not require that you return a defective item directly to the manufacturer. The seller remains responsible for products he or she sells.

If your informal attempts fail to resolve a problem with a defective product, you may have to go to court. Many of these disputes can be resolved in Arizona's informal Small Claims Division courts.

Hey Halfnutz and Dieguy,

I value your input. Your right, you should be careful who you do business with and who you get money from however you seem to make is sound as I am expecting way too much. I don’t want to seem like I am some picky, never satisfied customer. I just want a machine that works. I gave money up front to get a machine that should work from a company that claimed to be able to send a working machine. Even if it does not work right, I should then expect the upgraded parts they send should work…right? I don’t think I did anything unusual that others would not do.

You wrote:
The only thing wrong here between Tauseef and K2 is that you guys should have never done business together. Neither of you defined the terms and expectations properly before entering into the relationship. If K2 would have found out what Tauseef was expecting they should have known it was not within their ability to perform the way Tauseef expected. Tauseef should have known he was buying a tricky product from a new company and expected problems.

That all sounds well and good but is NOT realistic. I find your answer odd. What expectations? That the blocks for the ballscrews be machine right? That the machine not show up on my doorstep dented. That the skate bearings on a brand new, tested, mind you, all ride on the shaft..that the........ I did not know I had to have a conversation to make sure we all expected the same thing nor did I think I was dealing with a very new company or would be buying a “tricky” product. K2 did not disclose that in their website. K2 however does say they build and test each product before shipment. I think that really screams …you should expect a working machine. No? Am I crazy here? “Hey K2, I want a machine that works and is built straight Ok,…O sorry taus, we only send some of the machine straight and some parts are not machined well..but we don’t tell you which ones……is that ok with you?” "If and when we send you upgraded or replacement parts, heck they may not fit either."Come on. I think the experiences of others also show that I am not the only one that has run into these issues.

Do you expect to have a running car when you buy it brand new from the dealer? Or do you think the buyer and seller should find out expectations? How about when you get food, do you expect it to be warm?? Or are you spose to tell that to the waiter? Get real.

I have been very understanding and have looked over many mistakes and headaches starting with my KT-2525. I have also tried to help with honest useful feedback…not some “this sucks” feedback. The reason I am now fully disappointed is the upgraded parts they sent me is worse then the part it was spouse to replace. Come on. This is something that should not be happening. Plus, if I am a problem/demanding customer you should know this by now and wouldn’t you take extra measures to make sure the parts you’re sending me are exact? I told K2 when I bought the machine that I would do a review of the machine on my website and cnczone so they knew it would be “looked over.” What we both did not expect is the review would be filled with so many disappointments. It took me over 1.5 hours to figure out the new mount is miss-drilled last night. I think you would agree that is very frustrating.

I would think you would expect to see well if you came to me for your eye examination, right? You would expect to be fitted well with contacts, etc. If you have some medical issue you would expect to be taken care of? None of my patients ask me before seeing me if I can take care of them...isn't that assumed..isn't that why they are there? Maybe I should have a conversation with each patient today to find out if they expect all of this when they come to see me for their eye health examination. I can just see me losing all of my patients. Heck, next time I tell my patient that just bought $500 pair of eyeglasses and paid out of pocket that the presciption was confirmed and the frame has been looked over and tested just to find none of that is probably true. Lets see how long I stay in business.

Hey Dieguyt, As for the warrentee, I have now fixed and tweaked most of the machine in. The hard part is done. Plus I have spent to much in time and money for a custom table/enclosure to just send it back. It works, just needed some TLC. Thanks for the info thou.

Any-hoo, I am sure we can go on and on about this but I have said my peace. I have done my review of my product from K2. I am now going to concentrate on what I need to do to KEEP the machine working (no review of K2 anymore..hopefully :)) and share what is made, etc. :banana: (I love this little dancing banana!)

taus

Hey Halfnutz and Dieguy,

<snip>
Hey Dieguyt, As for the warrentee, I have now fixed and tweaked most of the machine in. The hard part is done. Plus I have spent to much in time and money for a custom table/enclosure to just send it back. It works, just needed some TLC. Thanks for the info thou.

Lets move on and make stuff :banana:

taus

Return the defective parts under warranty and get replacements. These guys seem to want to give a good customer experience, it is there execution that is lacking. I bet they will step up to the plate and make it right, and if not then buyer beware.

Hey Dieguy,

Yeah, I could. I bet they don't even want that part. I am sure they would send another but the one I modified works and is working well. It also takes about 1 or so hours to replace that one block which is something I just don't want to do again right now. I want to enjoy the machine. Each time I take that long X ballscrew off I am afraid it will get bent. I think I have already put a tiny bend it it from the switching. Beside, can you imagine if the next piece also did not fit... o gezzz. If it ain't broke don't fix it is what I am thinking :)

thanks again
taus

Ron from K2

has written me and said that I can return the machine for a full refund without question. The machine does not seem to fit my needs. Again, my needs are a machine that is built as one would expect. I don't see my needs any different then others paying a couple grand. However, I appreciate that but as mentioned I have put to much time and energy to just send it back. Heck, its working well now. I do think with the option to return for a full refund and that I am keeping it I accept the responsiblilty to take any further "flaws" at my own risk. Of course if there is something major and I am in the warentee time frame I will write to Ron. I will still keep an eye out for any things that need to be fixed and post how I went about doing that. Hopefully together and by exchanging ideas we can make sure each individual machine is doing well.

Hope to hear about your guys machines and what your making on them soon! I hope to post much more about things made then things fixed.

Thanks again guys for keeping in tune...I know it has been a bumpy ride (nuts)

taus

Ive been following this thread since its inception and I have learned a couple of things. None has to do with K2 in particular, they seem like any start up trying to do thier best with a very technical product. Ive been in and out of technical sales all my life and every company has these types of problems. K2 seem to at least try to make things right, more than I can say about some very big high dollar outfits Ive worked with.

Before you give your money to someone it is a customers responsibility to find out exactly what theyre going to get, before they hand over the cash.

Its a vendors responsibility to find out what kind of customer they are taking money from and what that customer is expecting. Once they accept the money it is thier responsibility to meet the expectations of the customer.

The only thing wrong here between Tauseef and K2 is that you guys should have never done business together. Niether of you defined the terms and expectations properly before entering into the relationship. If K2 would have found out what Tauseef was expecting they should have known it was not within their ability to perform the way Tauseef expected. Tauseef should have known he was buying a tricky product from a new company and expected problems.

Its a shame that this thing had to turn into such an ugly mess, with two unsatisfied parties as the result.

As far as K2 goes, they seem like they are exactly what I had sized them up to be. A decent little company in a tough business, with a decent product that isn't perfect, but a good deal for the money. In five years they could have perfect product and charge ten grand instead of two, like the big boys do, if thats the direction they want to go in. But to expect that out of them at this point (and at these prices) is not realistic.

So LESSON LEARNED: Be carefull who you give yor money to, and even more carefull who you take it from.

I totally disagree. You should not have to expect less from any company than what they offer no matter what the condictions. And you should not have to ask for a well working maching to recieve one.

I think you are disagreeing about slightly different things here.

There is no doubt that K2cnc is legally obligated to provide a WORKING machine as they claim they will do on their website. They have not done this. To all those who defend K2, I say there is no excuse for this. We aren't talking about a customer who is picky (as Taus pointed out), we are talking about a defective product.

On the other hand, Halfnutz makes a good point in that the buyer must beware. When a company offers a product at less than half its market value, something is up. This doesn't absolve K2 of its responsibilities. But it should raise concerns in the buyer as to why their price is so low. Are they trying to break into the market? Are they employing less than qualified people? Are they cutting corners with their components? I don't know that there is any one reason. Its probably a combination. But these are questions that the buyer needs to ask. Its just common sense (to me at least)

Taus and others have taken a risk in their purchase and it hasn't fully paid off. What about the rest of us? Are we going to blindly put down our money for these machines, with the attitude of "well, they say they can deliver a working machine.. bla,bla,bla" knowing what we do now? I think some of us will be much more reluctant. To make the same assumptions that Taus and other did in their purchase would be foolish knowing what we do now.

I'd like to thank Taus and others who have contibuted to this thread as they have saved me a great deal of headaches. I don't have a Sherline with which to fix a defective machine. I am willing to pay twice what K2 is charging, if I am guarenteed a WORKING machine!

Ron, Kevin are you out there? Now is the time to speak up and somehow reassure your potential customers that things ARE being resolved.

Carlo

All of this aside, I would really like to see K2CNC get it together and iron out these issues and succeed....

If they get their QA issues taken care of, their job should be a piece of cake.

Hey cbass,
I am not directly talking about K2 itself but any company in general. For the most part I really like my K2 CNC and have had very few problems with it and the ones I have had they have worked with me to fix. But I am disagreeing to things like
"The only thing wrong here between Tauseef and K2 is that you guys should have never done business together. Niether of you defined the terms and expectations properly before entering into the relationship. If K2 would have found out what Tauseef was expecting they should have known it was not within their ability to perform the way Tauseef expected. Tauseef should have known he was buying a tricky product from a new company and expected problems."
All taus was expecting was what they had already promissed. Even with the discount I paid more than 2 grand, actually it was more than twice that amount. I also disagree with "But to expect that out of them at this point (and at these prices) is not realistic." If any company promisses any thing it is the customers right to expect that. Whether it is a good deal or not. Again Im not putting K2 down, Im just referring to any company in gereral. I like my machine and if I needed another I would still consider buying from them. Thanks -Robbie

Ive been following this thread since its inception and I have learned a couple of things. None has to do with K2 in particular, they seem like any start up trying to do thier best with a very technical product. Ive been in and out of technical sales all my life and every company has these types of problems. K2 seem to at least try to make things right, more than I can say about some very big high dollar outfits Ive worked with.

Before you give your money to someone it is a customers responsibility to find out exactly what theyre going to get, before they hand over the cash.

Its a vendors responsibility to find out what kind of customer they are taking money from and what that customer is expecting. Once they accept the money it is thier responsibility to meet the expectations of the customer.

The only thing wrong here between Tauseef and K2 is that you guys should have never done business together. Niether of you defined the terms and expectations properly before entering into the relationship. If K2 would have found out what Tauseef was expecting they should have known it was not within their ability to perform the way Tauseef expected. Tauseef should have known he was buying a tricky product from a new company and expected problems.

Its a shame that this thing had to turn into such an ugly mess, with two unsatisfied parties as the result.

As far as K2 goes, they seem like they are exactly what I had sized them up to be. A decent little company in a tough business, with a decent product that isn't perfect, but a good deal for the money. In five years they could have perfect product and charge ten grand instead of two, like the big boys do, if thats the direction they want to go in. But to expect that out of them at this point (and at these prices) is not realistic.

So LESSON LEARNED: Be carefull who you give yor money to, and even more carefull who you take it from.

I don't share your opinion at all. You also contradict yourself by saying Tauseef should have known he was buying a tricky product from a new company and expected problems and then saying A decent little company in a tough business, with a decent product that isn't perfect

The machine is either working or not. If it is working it is not defective. It simply is one or the other, and it cant be a total piece of garbage one day, and a nice machine that seems to be working just fine the next. I dont want to be argumentative, I didn't mean to piss anyone off or to be critical of anyone, but it disturbs me to hear or see someone getting trashed even if they do deserve it. What I was trying to point out is that this situation was getting too personal and wasnt providing enough objective information.
Remember good 'ol Rodney King? "(sniff, sniff) cant we all just, (sniff, sniff) get along?"
I'm gonna try and shut up now and mind my own biz.

Hey guys, I have only just started to read this thread since it appeared in the moderators forum as a "Keep your eyes on this thread" warning.

Personally I like to see reports about the pros and cons of a product. I guess there is a fine balance between reporting the facts, and slander. So long as the facts are stated truthfully, and correctly then I guess nothing can go wrong.

The thing I like about CNCzone is that we can share our many, and varied opinions about different things. Keep up the good work guys on the conversation, but always have a good think about what you are about to post.
Is it truthfull?
Is it correct?
Is it biased?
Are you posting out of anger?
Does it contain an element of personal attack?
ETC.

Great disscussion though. Just try and keep it above board. (On the most part I think this has happened)

EDIT: Just incase you do feel like you might have crossed the line, please dont forget you have an edit button :)

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responces. One thing I don't want is for us to battle over K2's sake. I hope my review of the machine was very objective. I tried to provide pictures with ever reason or cause. I never (or so I hope I did not) post a "this sucks" without rhyme or reason. My objective was to give an honest step by step detail review without emotion. I hope I did that. Sure I got a little heated in the end but after spending almost 2 hours to figure out the new X-axis ballscrew mount was cut way off...Yes, I was more then peed off.

I still don't agree with your opinion Halfnutz but I thank you for it. I don't want any "hard feeling" as there is much more to our cnc fun then K2 and this thread. I think we all hoped and expected to have a good simple review...wow this machine is awesome..great work...but it just did not turn our that way. Nothing personal with K2, just business. I expected what their website and videos said/showed; a well made working machine. Sure it worked even without the modifications but that does not mean it was "well made."

Overall the machine is fine. I will not be returing it. It is now running well. Hopefully people can make a better decision or at least ask more question before buying their machine either with K2 or another vendor. Half the price or not of its competitors, it should still of been of better machining. The customer service and documentation could also use major improvement.

The best thing that can happen now is K2 uses this information and turns it around to fix the issues, etc. Me, I just move on and enjoy making stuff.

Carlo wrote:
I don't have a Sherline with which to fix a defective machine. You can say that agan. If I did not have my trusty Shelrine...there really would of been no way for me to fix those issues.

Wow I did not know we made it to the big times...the thread warning (flame2) ...Sorry Paul :)

thanks again,
taus....now did anyone make anything today?

Hey guys,

I was determined to make something tonight and I figured why not try a 3D file. It was much easier then I thought it would be. Of course this is a simple drawing with little detail...but hey it worked. I don't know if I liked watching the Z axis being used for more then just plunging or the rounded corners the ball endmill made. Now I will have to make some really nice 3D drawing and cut it. :p

I used meshcam for the g-code and it was really good. I made a 2 blade propeller.

HERE IS THE PAGE TO THE 3D PART (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/first3dpart.htm)

I have also written to Ron to send me another X axis ballscrew mount. Let's try it again.

cool stuff. :banana:
taus

So quite :)

I made another small part and ran it 3 times last night. I iwll post a pic of it tonight. I was more then satisfied with the repeatability. I have not checked my backlash still Cbass as I planned but don't find it to be much of a problem. I will probably cut a hole for a bearing at some point and see how it fits. I am really enjoying the working area of the machine. For now I am just screwing parts to the MDF board I bought. I am going to cut some clamps for it soon.

It is working well. The X axis sounds pretty gritty but there is very little binding. The new mount K2 sent for the Y axis has really helped a lot. I hope to recieve the new X axis mount soon and hope it also makes the X axis much smoother.

I am getting more and more pleased with the machine. The working area is HUGE and it moves really fast! Mach 2 is really working well too.

taus :wee:

Glad to hear things are going well :cheers:

Carlo

Taus,

The whole "my ball srews sound gritty" still has me a bit perplexed. Given that they are made to be precise and all...

Have you considered calling the manufacturer (Nook?) and asking them about remedies? On the other hand, they may tell you that that's how they're supposed to sound. I don't know, I'm just wondering.

Carlo

Hey cbass,

I did call Nook when I first got the machine to ask a few questions about the nuts. They have some speical lube that they recommend on the nut. When I read more, and after posts from homecnc and ballendo they mentioned Vaseline so I tried that too. I don't think these are "percsion" ground..I think they are rolled ballscrews..whatever that means :)

The new y axis mount has helped a lot. The axis seems really smooth. The X is really gritty. I will take a movie of it and you can listen to how they sound. I am sure the noise is also magnified through the frame but there is a distinct difference.

Now I did add about 2-3 more balls to the X axis one...but I did that to the Y also. Ballendo mentioned that he sometimes puts balls that are a bit oversized to get some of the backlash out.

I will post a movie and send a link...tell me what you think.

Here is a picture of that part I made last night. First you might need an explaination :) I "accidentally" threw away my good friend and co-worker's favorite rubber band stand. In an effort to keep peace I made her a new one. I used white pine, the CNC router, router table and some sandpaper. It came out pretty good. The bar is a crashed flybar from the raptor.

PICTURE OF STAND (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/Otherpeopts/Shelly/shellystand.jpg)

later
taus

Taus,
.....just a thought... If that "gritty" ballscrew is the one that jammed when assembling, it may have that feel/sound from one of the tabs of the return circulating channel having been bent out of position. This would cause the balls to ever so slightly 'pop' or have that grinding effect as they circulated through the channel.

Hey taus,
The stand looks great. Did you cut around the edges with the cnc also? If so how did you hold the piece inplace while it cut around the edges? Thanks-Robbie

Hey guys,

Hey Bloy2004,
That is a good thought. While it is not the one that bound that does not mean I did not bend it. I will have to look it over, its awefully nosiy. I will post a link to the movie tonight, let me know what you guys think.

Hey CNCRob,
Thanks! It came out pretty good. I used font from dafont.com and modified it a bit. There are plenty of fonts there to choose from. I used dry wall screws to hold the white pine to the 3/4" thick MDF top. I used a dremel "V" engraver and cut .4 mm (.0157") into the piece (with 2 passes hoping to get a cleaner cut). I than had the machine move up about 25 mm and stop using the M00 code. I changed out the bit to a 1/8" router and moved it down to the wood (zeroing the Z axis only then). Restarted the code, it moved up 2mm, started the spindle and went about its way. I cut 10mm deep (.39") around the frame in 2 passes. I than used a bandsaw to cut the piece off in that "groove." Since I had a nice 10mm edge, I than used the router (in the homemade router table) and a "flush bit" (with bearing) and used it as the guide and cut around it by hand. I than used another router bit...cove I think, to get the edging. It was a LEARING process as I went. It was not planned but things just kind of "fell in place." It was also my third one :) One got caught on the router bit and got flung across the basement, and the other I cut the letters to deep and in one pass.

Hey Bub,
Awesome job! The cuts look very clean. How did you go about holding the work down?

later
taus

Thanks tauscnc, I just put masking tape around the edges of the balsa wood to hold it down.

hey guys, I just got my k2525x5 I ordered it with the extra 2 inches on the z. I also purchased the Servo package. The machine went together like a dream. I have had nothing but little problems so far though. the z axis servo had a loose wire that cost me pretty good to get diagnosed and repaired. I am having some software issues too. anybody out there using windows xp pro with mach2? artsoft, the makers of mach2 have been great. k2cnc was good now they don't answer my emails. I have only had it 2 weeks and am very disappointed. The problem is the machine is cutting everything very small and very slow. Possibly config problem. any help from you all would be great. Thanks

hey guys, I just got my k2525x5 I ordered it with the extra 2 inches on the z. I also purchased the Servo package. The machine went together like a dream. I have had nothing but little problems so far though. the z axis servo had a loose wire that cost me pretty good to get diagnosed and repaired. I am having some software issues too. anybody out there using windows xp pro with mach2? artsoft, the makers of mach2 have been great. k2cnc was good now they don't answer my emails. I have only had it 2 weeks and am very disappointed. The problem is the machine is cutting everything very small and very slow. Possibly config problem. any help from you all would be great. Thanks


Please start a new thread.

Hey guys,

Here is the movie of the movements. It is in Quicktime and about 8.3 megs. I tried to keep it short and sweet. It is about 90% of what I can put in steps/movement in Mach 2. I can also run one much slower and you can hear the "grinding" of the X axis. I am really hoping the new mount from K2 will make this sound like the Y, MUCH SMOOTER (after that new mount). Overall, all is going well. I cut a shelf for the office last night and will post some pics. I used a "dado" blade on the tablesaw for the first time last night...really cool. I also used "wood clamps" and real wood glue to make the shelf (no screws)...I feel like a real wood worker

HERE IS THE MOVIE (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/Movies/KG-3925/p1010136.mov)

taus
__________________
Thanks,
tauseef
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

I'm a bit of an amateur cabinet maker, so the words "dado blade" kind of caught my eye. If you have one of the wobbling types, get a stacked dado. The finish of the cut is much better and the blades last a lot longer. Also, you should never make a dado more than 1/2 the thickness of the board. In 3/4-inch plywood, a 1/4-inch dado is generally more than enough.

In addition to wood glue and clamps, consider using brads in a pnumatic nail gun. If you use pocket screws, you don't even need to clamp.

Hey Paul,
Thanks, I did use a stacked dado blades, just a cheap one from harbor frieght but the result was nice. I will also keep the other tips in mind for my next projects. Thanks!

I did get my new X mount from K2. I measured it this time and all looked good. I switched it out in about 40 min and it seems to be true. The noise has not gone away but I found through my removal and placements of the ballscrew I have seemed to have bent it just a bit. Maybe it was there, I don't know. Either way, it whips a little at the ends of the travel but it does not seem to effect the machine.

Enough with the fixing, more with the cutting :)

taus

Finally my KT3925 is arrived.
More time required to unpack than to mount.
Every part fits perfectly, without stress, movements are flowing without grease,no backlash, no noise.
Big, heavy, robust machine built to last and to work hard: not a toy!
Can I suggest a LED on the control box?
...and now: some help needed to set MACH 2.....
Thank you

hey ciccio,

That is great news! I am glad to hear it got there saftly and it works well. Mine was also packed very well and the machine is rather huge. Great working area.

Are you using servos or steppers to run the machine?

Good stuff
taus

My machine has 2 big motors with encoder on X and Y, plus a smaller one on Z.
What router can be used with his attachement? Porter-cable is not imported in Italy. Maybe a Makita, Bosch, Hitachi, what do you suggest?

Ummm as for the router that would be a question better left up to the experts. I have a porter cable but I think people say the Hitachi is quiter.

You have the servo system on your machine. I have a stepper. Again, I think others will be better at answering your questions with Mach2 and servo setup.

Post something in the Mach2 section, I bet you can get some good answers there.

taus

What is the model of the Hitachi router to be used if Porter cable is unavailable?

I have the Hitachi M12VC 2-1/4hp and like it, variable speed, quiet, powerfull and accurate. I just ordered a second one from amazon @ $129 delivered, amazon/hitachi has a deal right now that includes a free hitachi palm sander worth $58.

Hey guys,

I just cut out some stickers using the machine and the repeatability is great! The drag knife has to end up at the exact same spot as it starts so one can peel the sticker. The machine had no prob doing that.

Here are some Pictures

Picture 1 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/vinyl/Weighted/smalltaus1.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/vinyl/Weighted/smalltaus2.jpg)
Picture 3 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/vinyl/Weighted/smalltaus5.jpg)
Picture 4 (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/images/vinyl/Weighted/brushless.jpg)
Main Page (http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/vinyl.htm)

I am really enjoying the machine now and I have not even checked the backlash :) The working area is awesome!

Things seem to have gotten much better at K2. Ron is looking into the X axis ballscrew for me as there are some bends in it from all of the switching of the ballmount.

Lets here about more things you guys have made.

Good Stuff.
taus

Hi taus and Robcnc... :wave:

Glad to hear you are having fun with your new 3925 machines......I also have a 3925 machine and I think its great and well put together. I also have the 50x50 machine which is well worth the extra money and I would recommend it to anyone. The pictures on the k2 web site of the 50 x 50 don't really make it look as big as it actually is.....Hope you have as much fun with your machines as I am with mine!!.....keep me posted on anything good or bad......

K2 now has a manual for the KG-3925 on their website. I think they are working on some for the other models as well. http://www.k2cnc.com/Manual.asp

Glad to see they are making progress. Just so no one is confused the last part of the manual is for the KT-2525 where it shows how to adjust the bearings, etc. on the KG 3925 manual.

You guys cutting anything?

taus

Hey Taus,
I haven't really been cutting anything lately, mostly I have been working on a more perminate setup. Untill lately I have just kind of had everthing temporarily mounted just to get things going.

I've read through the thread, and I am confused. I am between building my own and buying a k2. Have they addressed most issues? I am looking at the 3925. I have a tight production schedule coming up and I am either going to crunch-build one, or buy this. So what's the conclusion?

Rob

IMO you can't beat the price, and I think they have addressed any problem they have encountered, they do have a money back guarantee.

Hey rherman,

Since I am the one that started the thread and have posted about my experience I think I can now say they seem to have either corrected most of the probs or are working on it.

The mounts for the ballscrews have been corrected and the new ones I got fit right in. You should not have to worry as I assume you would get the new ones anyway. The linear bearings they use are, I think, top notch. The machine does slide very smoothly. I just recieved a new X axis ballscrew from ron at k2 since mine had some bends in it from the mounts and I am sure from me taking it in and out so many times. They sent me a new one and did not even ask for the other back. Ron has been really good and I just got an email out of the blue asking how things were going.

The only thing I still don't like are the ballscrews. However I think this is something I have to work on. They are much gritter and louder then I thought they would be. This is my first experience with ballscrews and I think the ones I must of seen (at the machining shows) must be the TOP notch ones. SLIKLY SMOOTH AND ZERO BACKLASH. I think when I heard "ballscrew" that is what it ment..silly me. My machine has some backlash but to honest I have not measured it nor worried about it. Check out the sickers I have been cutting with it...no problem! The leadscrew on the Z axis is silkly smooth.

The machine is now working very well and I am very happy with it. Overall for the money they are good and as the support and quality control increase it will be even better. And as Paul says they have a money back guarantee.

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

I would reccomend building yor own only under the following. You WANT to build your own. You have plenty of time. You have access to all the tools (a mill and a lathe) and the tooling. Your willing to make some mistakes, figure them out and correct them. You dont need to have it running any time soon.

I dont know the K2 machines, but they sound and look nice to me. Any machine can have some minor adjustments or fixes that need attention, unless your willing to spend a fortune on a Techno or something like it.

Tauseef is obviously a smart (and tallented) guy. He seems to have thoroughly gone over the machine, actually that specific model, and although he had problems, they seem to have been taken care of reasonably. As frustrated as he was, and still gives them a thumbs up, that say's alot.

If I had the money and was going to buy one, thats definately the one I would get. I'm really impressed with the stuff youve done Tauseef, nice work!

Thank you all for your replies. I currently have a Taig desktop mill, and a Practical CNC 4'x8'x6" rack and pinion stepper router table. I have built homebrew cnc machines in the past out of plastic and aluminum for fun. I am launching a commercial venture and luckily, it seems I may be swamped with orders. But, I need to go at a higher speed and smaller envelope. I have another thread going on about high-speed machines and I am looking into it. Sadly, I do not have the time any longer, but if the payoff in a high-speed machine were there, I'd do it. The k2 machines look like something I would draw up in terms of economy of design and components. I am spoiled on the Taig with cromo lead screws and split lead nuts. The thing is truly amazing, but slow for what I am cutting. Anyway, thanks for the input.

Rob

Hey Halfnutz,

Thanks for the nice words. I hope to make some more stuff soon. It's amazing what "time" can do for anything. I think when I got it I was so excited to get it and then so disappointed at the mistakes that I had no "middle" time. Now that I have made some stuff, learned about ballscrews, the machine, etc. I have a clear "stable" opinion. I am just glad K2 did return my KT-2525 without question and replaced it with the KG-3925 for a bit more. I would recommend the KG-3925 over the 2525 anyday.

Hey Rob,
I think when you said, I do not have the time any longer...that screams premade machine :) If you get the KG-3925 at the "place" mine is now; the new ballnut mounts, better shipping, manual in the works, etc. I think you will be quite happy. I bet with the servo setup it cooks.

Now what to make!

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

rher - I have a 3925 from K2 with servos. If accuracy matters than make sure you upgrade the z axis and go with 0 backlash and precision ballscrew. Mine will cut reliably at 80-100 ipm, rapid at 140 ipm. The frame rails (1x2) are light for the weight of the gantry so if flatness/distortion of the cutting surface matters you will need to stiffen the frame. I used a 24x48 piece of 1/2in mic 6 aluminum and it seems to have worked well. The K2 machine is good value for the money, but may require some tuning for your application.

I just ordered the K2 3925 with z upgrade, .001 ball screws, servos, aluminum top, e-chains and more completely assembled and shipped in a crate. I'll let you all know how it works out. I'm excited!

hey guys,

Hope all is going well. Well I have not been machining much lately but finally got back to it after sometime. I wanted to cut my own sign for the practice. It came out awesome :)

I used Formica type couter top and Aspen wood (I think) on the bottom.

PICTURE OF SIGN (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/EyeCareSign/6.jpg)

Here is the link to the WHOLE PAGE FOR THE SIGN. (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/eyecaresign.htm)

I still need to get those pictures of my collect inserts for the 1/8" and 3/8" bits...nothing special just turned pieces on the lathe with a slit on one side.

Anyone else cutting stuff?

taus

Your sign looks great Tauseef

Taus et al.

I should be receiving my machine tomorrow. In the meantime I've been planning the enclosure that will protect the machine's rails from the dusty environment where I work. I will post pics soon!

Just got my desktop computer that will run it, and a sherline er-16 head. Also dry running Mach 2 to try to lesson the learning curve. Its no substitute for the real thing but it will have to do ;)


Your sign looks great BTW! Hope everyone is doing well....

Carlo

Thanks CNCRob.

How is your stuff going? Man I really have to figure out a way to keep the saw dust down.

Unfortunetly, I just got an email from a guy that got his KT-2525 and seems K2 has not fixed the problems of the bearings seating and bent leadscrews. Poor...that just make me mad. No one should have to put up with this. I don't know what to think other then beware buying a KT-2525. Seems getting those skate bearings to fit right is just to much work as well as getting straight leadscrews. The KG-3925 seems the way to go if your gonna do K2. They should just remove the 2525 off the menu.

taus

Hey Cbass,

That sounds GREAT! I can't wait for you to get yours. I hope all of it is well. I am still waiting on Arch to get his too.

I have meet a guy that lives about 1-1.5 hours from me that is also waiting for his KG-3925! Figure that! He got the servo setup so it will be intersting to see that.

Keep us posted on the dust collection and encloseure. How is that Sherline spindle? How would it compare to the porter cable router?

taus

Taus, great sign!

I am pretty much sold on the K2 except for the talk of gantry deflection. I am doing 3d surface milling/routing. Anyway, it sure beats designing one and building one from scratch. Thanks.

Rob

Hi tauscnc,

I've been following your thread for a while now, as I'm seriously considering buying a K2 KG-3925 (I just don't fancy the likelyhood of screwing up a self-build, and don't think an MDF machine is really going to 'cut-it' :rolleyes: in the long run).

As I'm in the UK, returning parts would be a major hassle, so I want to be reasonably confident that the issues are sorted.

I see there's a few others with orders pending, so I'd be very interested in their thoughts when they take delivery. What's your position now - do you reckon it's worth a purchase?

Oh, and just to make all you US buyers feel a bit better - UK delivery looks like being 500-1000USD, and UK customs will slap a charge of something around 30% on the cost of the machine when it hits our shores :frown:.

Hi tauscnc,

I've been following your thread for a while now, as I'm seriously considering buying a K2 KG-3925 (I just don't fancy the likelyhood of screwing up a self-build, and don't think an MDF machine is really going to 'cut-it' :rolleyes: in the long run).

As I'm in the UK, returning parts would be a major hassle, so I want to be reasonably confident that the issues are sorted.

I see there's a few others with orders pending, so I'd be very interested in their thoughts when they take delivery. What's your position now - do you reckon it's worth a purchase?

Oh, and just to make all you US buyers feel a bit better - UK delivery looks like being 500-1000USD, and UK customs will slap a charge of something around 30% on the cost of the machine when it hits our shores :frown:.


All of that would motivate me to build my own.

I have mostly just been working on a more permanent setup. By permanent I mean before things like the wiring was just all laid around, now I have it fixed where the wires and cables that run from the servos to the control box are now hanging from the ceiling. All the other wires and cables are also more organized. Things like the speed controls and e-stops are now all permanently mounted and not just laying around. I also have made a simple vacuum system, that I mounted to the router to help collect alot of the dust the router makes. I also permanently mounted the control box so it isn't just laying around anymore. I also made a new table top out of plywood with t-nuts every 4.5in to hold down forms that I mount my parts to. I even organized all my router bits and redid all the software on the computer that I use to run it with. Its mostly all just simple things but I will try to post some photos of the setup.

Hey rherman,
Thanks! The sign came out petty good and I am thinking of making one even bigger now :) We have a large round mirror and I think it would look really nice to put our name around it. I think I would have to cut it in 3 pieces, mabe out of 3/4" MDF..will see.

Hey sploo,
Wow those are some steep prices on shipping. Man. For that you might want to consider making your own. Plus, as you mentioned, if it is dented or broken in shipping or if you need a part it is going to cost quite a bit. It is nothing more then that 80/20 excruded aluminum, linear bearings, and cheaper ballscrews. With the price your talking about you could purchase really nice ballscrews, etc. Of course I bought mine too instead of making one due to time, effort, tools, etc. As for would I buy it again... I think the 3925 machine is very nice but would say stay away from the 2525.

Hey CNCRob,
Good stuff on your machine. If you get a chance can you post some pics of your setup. I would like to see your dust extractor method. O yeah, also the table top..

later
taus

I decided to build my own, but copied the K2 3925 design. It was a lot of work, but very fun. Awesome sign Tauseef, I wish I knew how to use a cad program. Ive tried several, but they just confuse the &*%^ out of me with all the menues and tools and features. At some point I geusse I will have to take or buy a course. For now I am limited to hand coding and the limited stuff DeskEngrave does. It can make a basic sign, but not anything really nice like that. One thing is for sure, there's allways something more to learn in CNC, thats why I like it so much.

I'm still waiting on mine. I was told it would go out at the end of last week and it may have, I live in Tennessee. Sure hope I get it next week.
Taus the sign looks great man. I've got several allready drawn up so I can't wait to cut some. Starting to get really good with OneCNC Professional, it is so easy to use and quite powerful. Anyway, I sure hope mine gets here soon. I'll post soon as I get it in and running.
Arch

I decided to build my own, but copied the K2 3925 design. It was a lot of work, but very fun. Awesome sign Tauseef, I wish I knew how to use a cad program. Ive tried several, but they just confuse the &*%^ out of me with all the menues and tools and features. At some point I geusse I will have to take or buy a course. For now I am limited to hand coding and the limited stuff DeskEngrave does. It can make a basic sign, but not anything really nice like that. One thing is for sure, there's allways something more to learn in CNC, thats why I like it so much.


Halfnutz,

I did a search for your machine but couldn't find it. Do you have pics?

Thanks

Carlo

Hey taus,
Here is the vacuum system I wrote about. Its about as simple and basic as it gets but I would guess it collects about 65 or 70 percent of all the dust, especially the tiny dust particles that tend to float around and get all over everything and in your nose. I got the ideal from seeing a few others on here making something simular. I was going to but a premade system from another member on here, but I had aready ordered all the supplies to make my own and hated to just throw all that money down the drain with out atleast trying to make one. I ordered the brushes and the track to hold them in from mcmastercarr and bought a piece of 1.25" vacuum hose from Lowes. My dad gave me a new shop vac about a year ago and I have'nt never really used it except when we bought our house we vacuumed the floor before they installed the carpet. Now I have found the perfect use for it.
First I just rounted out a piece of plywood to fit around the router and vacuum hose.
http://images.snapfish.com/34459%3A3923232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D%3A2%3A%3D%3A%3A%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2323999686%3A46ot1lsi

Next I cut and mounted the brush holders. I drilled and taped the two side rails with two small holes each, I used the holes to hold some set screws which hold the brushes in place. The two side brush slightly overlap the end brushes , so that they are held into place without the need of any set screws.
http://images.snapfish.com/34459%3A3923232%7Ffp46%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D%3A2%3A%3D%3A%3A%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2323999687%3B%3C7ot1lsi <br />

From there I just glued a 1/2 inch piece of dowel rod into a hole I routed out when I cut the plywood, I then slide the brushes into place and tighted the four set screws.
http://images.snapfish.com/34459%3A3923232%7Ffp47%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D%3A2%3A%3D%3A%3A%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2323999686%3A48ot1lsi

All that was left to do was just install it to the machine
http://images.snapfish.com/34459%3A3923232%7Ffp47%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D%3A2%3A%3D%3A%3A%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2323999687%3B%3C%3Aot1lsi

Here is another pic with the vacuum hose inplace. I just used a tieback to help hold the top to the router. The bottom was already a nice tight snug fit.
http://images.snapfish.com/34459%3A3923232%7Ffp3%3B%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D%3A2%3A%3D%3A%3A%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2323999686%3A4%3Aot1lsi

Here is a pic of a couple of the brushes before they were cut. I ordered three different sizes for different size bits and different materials.

http://images.snapfish.com/34459%3A3923232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D%3A2%3A%3D%3A%3A%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2323999687%3B%3C%3Bot1lsi

Thats about it. theres not much to it. I have read a lot of people have had trouble getting there systems to work because of the routers exaust. I guess I just got lucky the exaust don't bother mine enough to really hurt it.

Does anyone have any ideal why my photo codes arn't working. they worked fine in the test forum http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94489#post94489

Does anyone have any ideal why my photo codes arn't working. they worked fine in the test forum

I don't, but I have noticed that in the last few days my installation of Mozilla has stopped displaying any graphics on the forum (ads, buttons like "New Thread" etc). Firefox is fine.

Anyone else had this problem?

Thanks to all those who replied to my KG-3925 post:-

DieGuy, tauscnc - yea, delivery and import duty is likely to be steep. I'm trying to weigh up these costs against the time and likelyhood of screwing up a self-build.

I had a better look at the 3925 construction (I'd previously looked at the 2525). To be honest, because of the use of linear bearings, it looks a little easier to make (I've never fancied trying to get a rod/ball bearing setup right).

Does anyone know what linear bearings and ball screws they use (lengths, manufacturer, part number etc)?

The reason I ask is that I expect I'd have to buy many of these parts from the US anyway (thus paying delivery and import duty). If the cost of these parts isn't that far from the whole machine, I might as well just buy one.


Halfnutz - I'd be very interested in details of your 3925 'copy'. What linear bearings and ballscrews did you use?


Arch, cbass - Have either of you guys got your machine yet? If so how's it looking?

Happy routing all!

Hi I'm In The Uk London And Have 2 K2 Machines.....the 3925 And The 5050 Machines....both Very Good.....i Went To California To Get The Machines.....getting Them Back Isn't Easy And Damn Expensive. If You Want Some Advice On It Please Feel Free To Contact Me. I May Weel Be Interested In Selling My 3925 As I Have Never Used It.....i Use The 5050 All The Time And Its Great.

Thanks And Good Luck

Ian.....oops Sorry Just Realised Its All In Caps.....

Hi I'm In The Uk London And Have 2 K2 Machines.....

Hi Ian,

I'm certainly interested. I've sent an email to the address in your private message.

Sploo, I haven't received mine yet. I called today and they said it might go out tommorrow, he estimated shipping to be about 8 days from California to Tennessee, so it'll be another couple weeks probably for me. I got all the upgrades and they are completely assembling it for me, so I can't wait to get it in. I'll post here as soon as I get it with pics and all.

Halfnutz,

I did a search for your machine but couldn't find it. Do you have pics?

Thanks

Carlo

Sploo and Cbass, Here is the link to my project log.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11087
As far as cost, it was around 1100-1200 dollars including all the controls, so you can definately save some money, but be prepared for ALOT of work.

Heres some pics of my tupperware dust collector. I wanted to see if it would work before I spent a bunch of time making a permanent fixture, and it works OK. Some dust escapes but 90% gets collected. I cant really think of a good way to make one like this, so I'll probably do something like CncRob did. I saw one guy that took a thing like mine and then cast it in fiberglass. He molded over the prototype with resin and cloth, it was really nice. Maybe I'll try that. One thing is for sure, you have to do something, the stuff goes everywhere and makes a real mess.

Arch,

OK, best of luck. Would like to hear how it goes when you get your machine.

Sploo and Cbass, Here is the link to my project log.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11087

Most impressive (as is the cost).

The problem is that I have no tools suitable for working aluminium. I have a bandsaw which I believe will handle alum box section, and 1/4" plate, but no lathe or milling tools. I think this would make it difficult to construct my own machine.

But... damn... 1200USD... that price is good :p.

I know it has been asked here before, but I was wondering if anyone knows if the issues that have been brough up before regarding the KG-3925 have been fixed by K2 CNC?

I am looking at possibly going down to their shop on Friday as I'll be in Southern California on Friday. Knowing if they've fixed this stuff or not would be a nice piece of info before I walk in there...

Jon

One thing is for sure, you have to do something, the stuff goes everywhere and makes a real mess.

I agree, I never would have thought they could make so much dust. You just about have to have something to keep it under control.

It's here!

I just received my 3925 on Friday. So guys when are we going to have a K2 party? :p woops, I just read in the manual not to mention that around any non-owners :frown:


Seriously, I'm pretty stoked. I still have a long way to go in setting it up. I expect it will be at least a month. I don't even want to turn it on and see it move because then I know I'll never get around to installing it correctly...

As far as problems that I can see, the rails already have some rust spots from fingerprints. Someone needs to tell these guys to avoid handling them, or oil the areas afterwards. They still seem to suffer from not being able to matchine flat areas "FLAT". Some of the bar stock looks like it suffered the same problems someone earlier mentioned in this thread. I hope this is only in non-critical areas. Also, the mount that connects the y-axis motor to the gantry was pretty loose. The loose bolts is just bad in my mind because now I'm looking for faults. It would have taken them all of 30 minutes to go over all bolts and make sure they were tight. I realize this is becoming a rant and that was not my initial intent. So I will end it here. If I have problems with the functionality of the machine once it is up and running...you will all hear about it!

I'll soon be starting a log on the enclosure for the machine.

Halfnutz-Thanks for the link

Carlo

Cbass, Did yours come assembled and in a crate, if so how was that? Was it in good shape and all.
Thanks

Arch,

Yes, I had it shipped assembled in an enclosed crate. All I had to do was mount the gantry using 4 hex bolts (alignment pins are provided). I would definitely go this route again after hearing some of the horror stories of UPS ground.

Carlo

I myself am currently interested in the KG-3925, but from what I'm gathering, the price they are making you pay for their stepper motors and controllers is REALLY expensive. Is this correct? Did most people who have gotten this machine go the "build" route of putting together the stepper motors and controllers separately for thius machine? If this is the case, could some point me in the direction of great motors/controllers for a fair price?

Any thoughts or input on this would be great...I can't wait to order!

Jon

I though I would post some photos of a rocking horse I made for my baby girl that I cut with my KG-3925. I ordered the plans off the internet and digitized them. I cut it out last night. It is just dry fitted together in the photos so I still need to glue, and paint it. I also still need to cut a piece for the back of the seat. So far I think it has turned out pretty good. I will try to post some more pictures of it finished.

CNCRob, nice, very nice. I'm sure she'll love it.

Regarding Dust Collectors: I have made my share of soda bottle cum dust skirt dust collectors, and one thing I found out is that the hole for the dust skirt has to be as close as possible to the collet. Most routers use a blow down fan. If you put the skirt over the whole base, it creates positive pressure. Your vacume would have to compensate for that and the negative pressure to evacuate the dust. Keep the skirt tight to the material. Good luck.

Rob

Thanks Rob

Awesome work CNCRob.
I really like that. We are also have a little (going on) 8 month old girl, first one and I bet she could use something like that too. How did you go about mounthing the wood to cut it out. I am most interested in hear about that.

Also what wood is it..looks pretty thick, what cutter did you use?
Again nice work.

K2 MAKES A GREAT BUSINESS DECISION. THEY GOT RID OF THE bearing setup on the KT-2525. I just got another email from a guy that had the skate bearings not work either and he sent his back. As I was talking with him about it he said,...no no,,,they go rid of the bearing and are putting linear ones on..etc. Good move.

The only prob is you can't by it frame alone, wonder why they decided to do that (must be cost/profit). Either way it is a good move.

Nice work again bud

tauseef

Thanks Tauseef,
My girl is 9 going on 10 months, so she is not much older then yours. To mount the wood I just bought me a cheap peace of PARTICLEBOARD UNDERLAYMENT its kinda like mdf from Lowes http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productList&catalogId=PARTICLEBOARD_MEDIUM_DENSITY_FIBERBOARD It was only $10.95 for a 4x8 sheet of it. I cut it so I would have enough to make 3 forms and have 2 pieces to practice with. I took one of the forms and bolted it to the table top I made(I will try to post some photos of it). I then took some regular wood screws and screwed the wood that I used to make the horse out of to the form. I had my program setup where it would make three 1/4" cuts and one 1/8" full cut. I then gave it a final cut to go all the way through but leave some tabs around the piece to hold it in place, kinda like a model airplane kit. I then just popped the pieces apart. I recommend taking the time and cutting them with a small saw because at one section I busted out a small piece of wood, but luckly it was in a notch where it hid behind another piece. Sorry this may be a little confusing but its kinda hard to put into words. If you have any questions just ask. The wood I used is 1" thick poplar, and I just used a regular 3/8" endmill to cut it.

Oh yeah, Heres a link to where I purchased the plans from http://www.designgroupweb.com/id28.htm

Ok Guys, Got my KG3925 in yesterday. All I can say is WOW! This thing totally rocks. They obviously have the bugs worked out is all I can say. Their shipping company needs to be fired though. Take a look at the picture, the way it is photographed is exactly how we took it off the truck. Most of the crate was gone. After that, this thing went together like a charm. We were running it in 30 minutes. To be able to download a profile for mach2 was incredible, the damn thing worked perfect right off the pallet. The pictures were taken on a work bench at work. I'll try to do a movie tomorrow with the upgraded ball screws this thing is amazingly quiet and extemely smooth. I absolutely love it. It is so great buying a tool that exceeds my expectations this is the first time in a while that that has happened. I'll ramble on some more later just wanted to let y'all know I got it. Also I'll say this - I think K2 is a great value for the money, maybe the best out there for a smaller machine. Thanks to Mike, Ron and Kevin at K2 - my hat's off to all you guys.

tauseef ,

Nice sign. What is your method to take fonts to G-code. I am using Mach 2 and Mastercam. I can create text in Corel Draw or Autocad, but when I convert to DXF and try to make toolpaths, the fonts turn into stick figures. It is still text, but looks nothing like the font.

Let me know.

Arch,

Congrats on the machine. Your comments certainly are giving me more confidence to buy from K2 (despite the shipping costs and UK import taxes).

It looks like you've ticked all the boxes with options (cable tidy, alum top, screw upgrades).

I was thinking of getting the rigid Z axis, but I'm not sure about the upgraded ball screws. I take it you've gone for all these extras?

Cheers, and please let us know how things go over the next few days/weeks.

That's good news Arch.

Hey Arch

This is Mike from K2, I am very glad to hear that you were satisfied with your KG-3925, over the past few months the company has made many improvements as you can see by the succession of comments. Our KG-3925 is a very durable machine, we've also switched the 2525 to KG. We are very confident that both the KG 3925 and the KG 2525 are superior routers. We find comments in forums such as this useful and motivating.

Hey guys,

First, Hi Mike from K2...I have not talked to before but am glad to hear you guys are keeping note of this thread. I am glad to hear about the changes on the 2525 machine. Good stuff.

Hey Arch,
Awesome news on your 3925. Sorry to hear about the shipping. Man it has to be so frustrating when everything is going well except for the shipping companies lack of caring. When K2 sent me my 3925 unassembled it was in perfect condition..they did pack in some extra measures of mistakes for the shipping company. Now you just need some type of dust control...this machine can sure make a "nice" mess.

Hey Millmore,
It must be a saving issue on how corel draw or autocad saves a file. If you like I can save a file for you in dxf from rhino3d. Then you can convert it and see if that works. I have no problems with the font and it simply as easy as putting them where you want, converting, and cutting. Try some different settings and see. Mastercam should be able to handle anything you throw at it. Also make sure your fonts are in curves and not in solids. I just checked and my rhino3D settings are:

-Write surfaces as MESHES
-Write curves as POLYLINES
-Write meshes as 3D FACES
-Autocad version Release 14
-Curve options: Use simple entites

Not sure if that helps :)

You can get many fonts at www.dafont.com

Let me know if you want me to send you a dxf file.

tauseef

Welcome aboard Mike! We spoke the other day on the phone...

A quick question for all you veterans out there, as I'm getting anxious to see my kg 3925 M-O--V---E: what should I output my g-code as? Is it Fanuc 6?

Thanks,

Carlo

Hey Mike,
It's me Randy from Tennessee, glad you guys are looking at this thread, and if you look at the number people who have viewed this thread, then you know many people are interested in K2. I think you guys are doing a great job, and you're building a great machine for the money. My machine is extremely smooth and accurate so I'm very well pleased. Mike was such a nice guy that he even recognized my voice and called me by name before I introduced myself each time I called. I'm sure the southern accent was a give away but, I appreciated it. Being a business owner myself I understand you're growing pains, but I know you guys are at least trying and I think you guys are on to something. Good luck K2 from a very satisfied customer.
Randy Wade
Martin, Tennessee

Hey Tauscnc
I've owned a couple businesses that have shipped stuff all over, so I know how it goes. You're doing some great stuff with your cnc, I especially like the key chain with your daughter's picture in it, it was very well done. Hope your machine is doing well -- great web site by the way.

Hey Millmore,
Give Onecnc a try, it does anything with fonts you can imagine and it's so simple the monkey driving the car can handle it. In fact with it's user interface I think my 8 year old could swing it.

Hey Sploo,
Yes I did get all the upgrades and I may be dribbleing the ball out of bounds here but, I think the K2 machines with the upgrades, are getting close to Techno-isel at about 1/3 the cost. The table top models, that is.

Hi Guys, I've been watching this thread since I joined (not to long ago) and it helped me to decide to buy K2. I'm getting the same table but stretched to 72". Talked to Mike several time as well as Ron and now I'm very confident I'll get a very nice unit.
Looks like shipping may be the only problem to get by.

Arch yours looks good!

Chuck

Hey everyone...

Just ordered a K2 myself and in the mean time, I've been trying to get familiar with som CAM software. Quick question: how exactly does tool changing go with this machine? Don't you run the risk of putting it "off course" when you tighten the new bit down. Does VisualMill have the ability to place pauses in the G Code as well as send the router to a tool change position? Thanks for all the help...

Jon

Hi Arch it is good to see another person from Tennessee (Go Vols) buying a machine from K2! I have had my one for over a year now and I tell you I have put my one through the ringer hahaha wood, metal, glass, stone, and whatever I get an idea to hack away at and my machine has withstood everything I have threw at it. Niota Tennessee here.

Hey Arch,

What ballscrews or ballnuts did you get. Mine don't look like those. I think mine must be the standard ones and those look like some upgraded type.

taus

Aksess,
Glad to hear from you, Go Vols!
Tauscnc,
Yeah they are the upgraded ball screws on all three axis. I'll take a closer look and see what name brand they are. They are real smooth and quiet. I haven't given it any kind of tolerance test yet but it has cut everything very well if anything is off I sure can't tell it.

I've just ordered my K2 router and can't wait for it to get here, but had a question that I hope someone who has one can answer: how easy is it change the tools on this device. I am somewhat new to the world of CNC and am wondering if there is a quick/accurate way to change tools on this device mid-milling. If so, is there equipment that should be purchased before the machine gets here? Thanks in advance for all the help...

Jon

It probably has a Porter Cable or similar type router with standard 1/4" and 1/2" collets. If you want more versatility you can get an ER 16 straight shank collet extension and collet set. That would give you many more collet sizes, but you'l have to spend around a hundred bucks and cut the extension down to a reasonable length. Make sure it's a 1/2" shank and not the 3/4". Once its set up you can change collets without much trouble and sizes are available from 1/8" up to 3/4" in 1/32" increments. You can also find a 1/8" collet adapter for the 1/4" collet from Porter Cable if you can live with just 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" collets. There are probably other options, but that is what I know about it. Straight shank collet holders are available online at ebay or from any other tooling store like Enco or Travers. Good luck.

(The above comments are the authors and do not represent the opinions of CNCZone or its management.)

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure I follow what your saying, but would are the collets easy enough to replace using the extension that it wouldn't mess up the machine's exact position i.e. messing up your part when it begins milling again? Maybe these things are enough of a "quick change" that that's the case. Thanks again for the help...

Jon

You would have to determine that, as long as you maintain a consistant height, or end mill length from the collet end I think they work fine, but ask around. Do a search here for ER 16 collet and see what comes up. I dont own a set but will some day, others use them and really like them. Theres also a set of quick change collets available from sears, just look for them in the router accesories, they look nice but you are limited to the 1/8" (with the Porter Cable adapter), 1/4" and 1/2" collets. They are a true quick change system. I'm more inclined to go with the ER system because the majority of endmills I use are 3/8", 3/16" and 1/8" and a few 3/32" shanks. I geusse if you are looking for convenience and easy changing, the Sears adapters would be better for you, check them out.

Something I have thought about but haven't tried yet is getting an extra 1/8" adapter from Porter Cable and boring and reaming it out to 3/16", and maybe trying the same thing with an extra 1/4" collet for the 3/8" size also. I dont see why it wouldnt work, but I haven't tried it yet.

(The above comments are the authors and do not represent the opinions of CNCZone or its management.)

Hey guys,

Hope all is well. I cut out a foam airplane on the router using a 1/16" (1.58mm) fishtail router. Came out great!

Here is the link to the AIRPLANE (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/Mini3D.htm).

Anyone cutting stuff?

taus

Hey taus, I was just looking at your site the other day and noticed your airplane. It looks great. I still wanna cut me a foam airplane.

Hey Rob,

I can send you over the newer better flying version in dwg or dwf if you like. You might want to modify it for your own use but the basics are there. Let me know. The one pictured did not fly well as I did not have enough wing area and I think I put the motor to far forward. The new one really cuts good and "snaps" together.

later,
taus

That would be great if you could do that taus

Hey guys,

I have put up pics of the newest airplane here (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/foamyairplane.htm)

I have put up the dwg file and as always it is for sharing only. I still have to turly test fly it but it is based off the mini3DX from www.3dfoamy.com.

I also cut out a new plaque for my wife's little neice. I found some pics on the net and pulled them into my Rhino3D and traced them out. After some trimming here and there they came out really good. The font is Joker.

Picture 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/Wooden%20Signs/Marissa/marissaplaq.jpg)

Picture 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/Wooden%20Signs/Marissa/marissaplaq1.jpg)

I really like this one. My friend's parents finished a kit car and he wanted to make them a gazelle for it (mercedes gazelle).

Check it out Picture 1 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/Otherpeopts/Nick/gaz11.jpg) Picture 2 (http://cuttingedgecnc.com/images/Otherpeopts/Nick/gaz2.jpg)

Lets see what you guys are cutting...

taus

I am some need of help: my KG-3925 has recently developed slop on the X axis (39" direction of the 3925). I have tightened the set screw on the plastic gear, but when I cut circles, I get two "flat" sides since the X won't move in the fine increments when it transitions from barely moving to not moving and back to barely moving. I found all of this out trying to cut some airplane ribs and noticed that the curves just weren't right! Any suggestions on what needs to be tightened and where?

Jon

Hey Jon,

I bet the nut on the front or back of the X axis is not tight enough or one of the mounts is a little loose. The X axis is able to move back and forth and thus you are seeing much more backlash. Try this (you might as well check the Y and Z also):

- Take off the pulley and move the stepper away from the mount. Now hold the gantry and see if you can shift it back and forth finding any play in the system. If so then you need to see if the nut on the front (or back) of the X axis needs to be tightened a bit. Of course the mounts that hold the bearings that the end of the X ballscrew goes though might be a little loose too.

- The better way but more painful way is to remove the two bolts under the gantry that holds the mount the ballnut is mounted into. Now you have the ballscrew/ballnut and the gantry on its own. Push the gantry to the back. Now just grab the ballscrew and move it back and forth and see if you can feel any play in it. If so, again tighten the nut on the front (or back) and check the mounts. This method, while much more involved, will give you a finer setting on the backlash of the bearings the ballscrews run though. Remember to use some loctite on the screws. Just tightned it enough to get the backlash out and then maybe another 1/8 turn more. Not so much that you feel grittyness from the bearings when you turn the ballscrew by hand.

You might as well check the other bolts too.

Let me know if this did the trick.

taus

Well, I tightened to what felt like the level that you said and it improved it, but it is still 0.02" off in the X direction (I have the 0.004" upgrade). I am going to tighten it a little more and see what happens...any suggestions if this turns out not to be it?

Jon

I have one of these also.
1) grab onto the ballscrew itself (from underneath) and push it back and forth, any lateral movement in the ballscrew will be in either the bearing preload adjustment nuts or the mount that holds them.
2) grab onto the gantry itself and push it back and forth, the screws that hold the ballnut mount on the bottom of the gantry do get loose.
3) make sure the locking screws are tight on both pulleys
4) my 0.004 ballscrew actually had 0.008 to 0.010 in the ballscrew and nut, and was not linear to boot.
HTH

I found something: one of the ball-bearing guide blocks has a jammed ball in it, and it was making the X axis move very roughly and sporadically. TausCNC, do you have any idea where to get these blocks? Thanks in advance....

What is the Census on the 3925, do they have the problems worked out? I am considering buying or something like soon.

Hi all,

I've been distracted from the pursuit of a CNC machine for a while, but it's still something I plan to buy.

I'm really just seconding Donald's question as to the quality of K2's machines.

I noticed that cbass (who I believe bought a 3925) has posts that indicate he's looking for another machine as he's had problems with the model he bought. I did send him a PM asking for his thoughts on the 3925, but I've not received a reply.

K2's machines still look the best in terms of price, but I am concerned by the number of people having, what looks to me, fairly serious issues.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I've been working the one I got for roughly 15 hours a day during the past week and I would have to say that overall, the machine has performed beautifully. 10 hour molds and then thing does them great every time (I've done 6 already).

On that note, one problem that I have found that I thought I would throw out there for review/comments: I posted the other day that I was having problems in my X-axis, mainly in very fine movements in the X. Well, come to find out, one of the linear bearings on the X-axis had completely gummed up and was HARDLY moving. I took it off, opened it up, and found that one of the ball tracks and completely stopped moving due to a gummy sludge made up mainly of ball grease and sawdust.

I know that nothing is supposed to get into the bearings on the surface that it slides on, but it hit me upon examination that the holes used to screw the rail to the machine provide a direct access to the inside of the bearings. If thee fill with sawdust and aren't cleaned, you could have sawdust pouring right into the the bearing housing and potentially gumming up your bearings. With the 10 hour mold runs I do, there is no wonder this happened.

Anyone have any thoughts on solutions to this problem? Currently, I have taken some expanding foam and jammed it into the holes so that nothing can build up in there...works for now but a more permanent solution might be nice...

Jon

Aero- Ive got the same deal on my machine, and I got some caps THK makes for the screw holes, they usually include them with thier rails, but I only got enough for about half of the holes on mine. Some day I'll try to find more somewhere. They are just plastic caps that pop into the rail holes and seal the holes up. Maybe THK sells them as parts, but I geusse it would depend on who made the rails and what size the holes are. Worth looking into, in your case.

Try the THK website, or find out from K2 if they know where to get them.

(The above comments are the authors and do not represent the oppinions of CNCZone or its management.)

Jon,

Many thanks.

That looks a bit less critical than I thought - i.e. it's working well, and the problem is not terminal.

Having seen a 3925 (though not in action) I was wondering if you could put some brush like material (similar to what people use for making dust collection hoods) along the sides of the machine.

The bristles wouldn't move - they'd be stuck to the sides of the machine, above the linear bearings.

They wouldn't be used for wiping anything, just preventing some dust falling onto the rails. Not sure how well it'd work to be honest.

Are you using any kind of dust extraction at the cutting end (i.e. a hood around the router over the cutting bit)?

PS Halfnutz, good call on the caps, thanks.

PPS Shame cbass doesn't seem to be around. It'd be nice to know the status of his 3925.

Heres a link to THK's dust caps in thier catalog,

http://www.tos-world.com/TOSUS/HTML/pdf/exa1290.pdf

I dont know what size the 3925 uses, but probably 15mm or 20mm. Maybe the holes are the same.

Hey K2 customers, if you need rail caps please call us and ask for Mike.

I just found something out today as I decided to take off the ball nut on the Z-Axis. Upon removing, the balls came out of the nut and required careful placement back in before rescrewing the nut onto the screw. What I ended up doing was convering the outside of the ball nut in rare earth magnets (Neodymium). When I went to screw it back on, the balls didn't move a bit and the nut went back on like a charm. Once it was completely screwed on, the magents were removed and viola! As a side note, I also disassembled the Z-Axis enough to allow me 360° access to the ball screw for better visibility.

I would say that if you want to take off the ball nut, this might make it easier than Taus's experience, but putting the balls back in if any fall out will definitely still take time.

Jon

On another note (this one being the reason I took my ball nut off in the first place), I finally figured out how to run machine higher than 20 in/min (F20) and have noticed that as I get up around 50-75 in/min, the machine becomes very "jittery" as it cuts. I am currently cutting a bowl out of foam and have noticed that during all of the parallel finishing work, the machine is seems like it's constantly stutering.

How fast have others gotten the KG-3925 up to? If you working with it as high as I am, are you noticing these symptoms? Any feedback would be great!

Jon

I run my one around 200 ipm with great results on wood and around 20 ipm or slower on mirrors. Look at my photos they tell the tale. I was thinking of selling my machine and getting a laser. But cant quite talk myself into it :)

Thanks, Aksess. After reading the previous posts in this thread regarding feeds and these machines, I guess a better question would be to ask who is cutting at speeds equal to or greater than 100 ipm with the new servo style motors? It appears that Aksess and Taus are using the steppers and they are working fine, but I am still having problems with the servos. I have been adjusting the speeds and acceleration of the motors, but that doesn't seem to change anything. Any input would be greatly appreciated...

AeroJDK

Hey Aero,
I have the servo setup with my machine, but I haven't really been about to test it at higher speeds because the z-axis on mine stalls out at aroud 70-75 ipm.

I have cut some letters for a large sign out at 200ipm and it worked flawlessly. I haven't tried it out any faster than that. On another note, my 3925 was cutting parts slightly smaller than drawn. Then I noticed on K2's website that they had a new profile for the metric ballscrews, now it is right on the money. I absolutley love mine and recommend them very highly to anyone interested. My machine is light years ahead of the Liberty I had. Fast, smooth and accurate. I did get the upgraded ballscrews and rails on all axis. That was probably the best money I ever spent.

My machine has the servo motors, not stepper

I forgot to say I got the servo motors and controller from K2 with mine. They are very smooth, quiet and don't heat up like my old stepper system did.

I agree, K2 has been very good about working with me , with all of the problems that I have had with the machine. They have fixed all that I have called them about. I never even told them about my machine stalling out. I never really wanted to go very fast until I started trying my hand a photo carvings. I may call them and ask if it is covered by their 1year parts waranity since it has done it since I have owned the machine. My other two axis's work pretty much flawless and I get a ton of speed out of them.

I have cut some letters for a large sign out at 200ipm and it worked flawlessly. I haven't tried it out any faster than that. On another note, my 3925 was cutting parts slightly smaller than drawn. Then I noticed on K2's website that they had a new profile for the metric ballscrews, now it is right on the money. I absolutley love mine and recommend them very highly to anyone interested. My machine is light years ahead of the Liberty I had. Fast, smooth and accurate. I did get the upgraded ballscrews and rails on all axis. That was probably the best money I ever spent.

CNCROB my machine seems low on power also . Let us know if they have a fix for this. I haven't really tried to troubleshoot this as I am in production mode now. Maybe the power supply is a bit small for the motors? Gecko tuning issue?

EDIT: I found a solution. After some more researching on the internet and looking for the right key words, I found that switching to Constant Velocity made all the difference. I effectively change the G61 to a G64 at the top of the G-Code and viola...amazing. Thanks again for all the help and feedback on this matter...
_______
Might power be the issue that causes the "jerking" motion? I haven't had a lot of experience with servo motors of this kind, but I could see how power could be an issue. Does anyone know if there are adjustable potentionmeters inside the K2 box to increase the power to the motors? Again, any input or suggestions for increasing the speed of the motors while removing their "jerkiness" would be greatly appreciated!

AeroJDK

Hey guys,

I am using steppers on my machine,,was using the 180 oz steppers and they did well but after a few stalls I decided to go to 640 oz NEMA 34 steppers. These puppies are huge. I am also wondering about my power supply now as it is 52 volts at 15 or 20 amps. No sure if you connect to transformers together in series 24V +12V if you get the full amps from both or full from one and half from other, etc.

Anyway, are you guys going off of what Mach2 or such is saying for IPM movement or have you timed it?

The IPM and the gittery movements might also be a computer thing. Your computer may not beable to handle when all motors are moving, etc and at that speed. I don't have mine setup yet but hope to get it running this weekend. I will post some pics then.

later guys,

tauseef

Anyway, are you guys going off of what Mach2 or such is saying for IPM movement or have you timed it?

The IPM and the gittery movements might also be a computer thing. Your computer may not beable to handle when all motors are moving, etc and at that speed.

I don't think that can't happen with Mach2 (or Mach3). When in 25 Khz mode, it will always be able to output 25,000 steps per second for all axis. And it won't let you set up the motors to go any faster than that. Same with 35Khz and 45Khz mode. You shouldn't have to worry about multiple axis slowing anything down.

Hi everyone,

I’m sorry for delaying in my response. I was waiting for my refund from K2 and I just received it the other day.

I returned my KG-3925 for several reasons…


-The machine frame was not flat. Specifically the extrusions that form the X-axis sagged visibly in the middle (at least a 1/16” over a 24” span. If I were to mount a rigid table top to this, I risked pulling the x rails out of true. I don’t see much point in advertising that a machine can hold .001 tolerances if its not in a (flat) plane. To K2’s defense, I recently visited Techno-Isel to see an LC router, a much more refined machine (and at $13,000 it should be). But guess what? It too had sag in the middle of its table! And they were using THICK aluminum extrusions throughout the whole table. It seems that the only way around sag on a machine of this design is to have a welded, stress relieved and precision ground frame. BTW, Techno will do this for an extra $4,000 (!). Ron at K2 has mentioned that they are considering this approach for the future.

-The cross brace that reinforces the frame in the middle of the machine protruded from the rest of the frame. This meant that when mounting a flat plate to use as a working surface, the plate would rock. Realigning this cross brace by loosening and re-bolting it was not an option as everything is drilled and tapped. I started sanding the extrusion down but quickly realized the other side was lower than the rest of the frame!

-When I got the machine running, I kept getting backlash in the x-axis.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13105&highlight=plotting

I trouble shooted with Kevin at K2 on this for more than a week. We both ran out of ideas. Incidentally, this issue was due to loose bearings on the x ball-screw. I only found this out after I had the machine disassembled and in the crate ready to ship back.


I was especially upset at this last issue, as had they tested the machine before it left their production, they would have easily picked up on it.

This is not meant as an attack on K2 nor do I hope to turn away potential customers. I was very excited to meet them when they were still in San Diego, and I sincerely hope they will continue to improve. They have been very good to deal with (especially Kevin) as others here will attest to. I think that many of the problems I experienced could have been avoided with some QC.

If you are on a limited budget, and are not too concerned with holding .001 tolerances over the entire length of the machine, then $5,000 is still a bargain.

I’ve come to the realization that what I’m looking for in terms of precision is better left to a steel framed machine.


Carlo

I feel the need to keep things updated and fresh about K2 products. I know allot of people are going to be mislead about K2 by the post on this forum. When I've read about the problems that some where having I almost didn't buy my K2-39x25, which would have been a Hugh mistake. I'll post picture of the delivery and an in-depth look at my machine. I guess that allot has change since K2 first attempt in to the CNC market and its all good. Jason

I think the comments in this thread have been very tolerant (maybe too much so), and are very current. They have been stating factual observations of the K2 machines, primarily the 3925. I really don't think they have been at all misleading.
IMHO
Carl

I would have mounted a MDF board to the top of the machine and then used a fly cutter and flattened that top. You may not get it to a Fadal's specs but you could have removed 99.99% of that 1/16th sag you were talking about. My K2 - 3925 is the best bang for 5k I've had in a long time. A 6" caliper is all I have so I've done that size rectangles and circles and they have come out within the range advertised. I do have the upgraded ballscrews and linear rails which I think is very important for overall accuracy. That being said I couldn't be happier with my machine and I still think they are the best value in the under $1o,ooo. market.

Hey Cbass,

I am sorry to hear you returned your machine but glad to hear you got your refund. That is good customer service (I assume all went well with the return).

What type of things are you trying to cut with .001 tolerance (0.0254 mm). With any machine won't the cutters deflect that much? I wonder if my machine has that type of bend in the middle. I rest my machine with the spindle in the corner as to decrease the chances of that deflection or take off the router as to decrease the weight.

Keep us posted on what you get.

Later buddy,

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

Hey Cbass,

I am sorry to hear you returned your machine but glad to hear you got your refund. That is good customer service (I assume all went well with the return).

What type of things are you trying to cut with .001 tolerance (0.0254 mm). With any machine won't the cutters deflect that much? I wonder if my machine has that type of bend in the middle. I rest my machine with the spindle in the corner as to decrease the chances of that deflection or take off the router as to decrease the weight.

Keep us posted on what you get.

Later buddy,

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com


Hey Taus,

I'll be milling a variety of materials (plastics, aluminum, ceramics). I'm making sculptural objects, so I don't want to have to hand sand my surfaces. I want them to look perfect and flat. The bowed table is an issue for me because I want to be able to mill surfaces flat and then stack them like a sandwich in whatever order I wish. Any deviation from flat will result in a curved gap.

I'm getting closer to knowing what I need at this point.

I will still follow this thread closely.

Thanks,

Carlo

Hey Taus,

I'll be milling a variety of materials (plastics, aluminum, ceramics). I'm making sculptural objects, so I don't want to have to hand sand my surfaces. I want them to look perfect and flat. The bowed table is an issue for me because I want to be able to mill surfaces flat and then stack them like a sandwich in whatever order I wish. Any deviation from flat will result in a curved gap.


I'm still considering a K2 machine, for an application that's not too different from what you want. Surely, as Arch points out, you could put a tabletop on the machine and mill it 'flat'. I've heard of at least two others doing this (not just on K2 machines) so it must work to some degree?

I've noticed that quite a few people on this forum now have 3925's, but keeping track of what everyone's got isn't easy. Having scanned quite a few posts, I've managed to arrive at the following (upgrades, max speeds etc.):

AeroJDK: servos, 75ipm (more now?), happy
Akess: servos, 200ipm
Arch: rails on Z, upgraded ballscrews on all axes, 200ipm, servos, happy
carlnpa: upgraded ballscrews (later), happy
cbass: ballscrew probs, machine returned
CNCRob: servos, 75ipm, fairly happy
tauscnc: steppers, generally happy, ballscrews could be better
zealouse: rails on Z, upgraded ballscrews on all axes, servos, happy

I'd be grateful if people could correct any mistakes I've made, and fill in the blanks.

It seems to me that the two who are happiest with their machines (Arch and zealouse) ticked all the boxes (upgraded Z axis, and ballscrews all round). Maybe that's the key to getting a good machine?

Hey Sploo,

The issue I had with doing this was that if the rails are flat and are mounted to a curved rail, when you put a surface over the top, two things can happen:

1-Tabe top will straighten the aluminum extrusion, and bend the rails. This would not be a good thing! Even if you mill your table in place, it will only be as flat as the curved rails.

2-Table top will conform to bent aluminum extrusion. Rails will remain straight. This is more ideal as far as the linear quality of movement is concerned.

This wasn't something I was willing to risk. Beyond this, I wasn't able to lay a flat table on the extrusions because the middle support was skewed. Ask them if you can get the Non-Skewed version. ;)


As for the upgrades, I'd say its money well spent as opposed to having to upgrade latter. Just my $.02.

Carlo

Hey Sploo,

I think you got mine pretty good. Overall I like the machine, the working size, etc. I also like the Z axis height. The more I play with it the more I see where little things could be improved, but that goes with probably most thing we get. Mostly, get the better ballscrews/nuts and get the upgraded Z axis. They did not have the upgraded ballscrews or did not mention them to me back then but luckily I did get the upgraded Z. I think this would make my machine even nicer. I also think the rails that support the long axis (39" one) are rather small. A 1" by 3" would fit there also (1030 rail) or a 1530 rail would too. I am still thinking of doubling mine with another 1020 rail and probably will. The stepper motors work well on my machine for the most part.

If I was to redue it all with the K2 3925 I would see about the upgraded ballscrews/nuts, servos (I don't really know if they are truly better then steppers), and I would still get 2 extra crossbraces made (gives you more places to clamp wood etc.) Of course get the upgraded Z axis. So basically, the basic machine is ok but if you upgrade most of it it will be much better :)

If I read Mach 3 it says my machine is going 1700 ish mm/min which would put it at 70ipm. I don't see how guys are running at 200 ipm as the ballscrews would whip around especially on the long axis and even the Z. The leadscrew on the Z axis is not supported at the bottom and I had to turn down my speed so it would not whip at top speed. I will put it to full again tonight and see what Mach 3 says the machine goes.

Hey Cbass,
Couldn't one losen the linear rail on the aluminum extursion and then put the top on and then retighten the rails. If some bend was taken out of the extursion the linear rail wouldn't be effected. That should work right?

later
taus

Hey Cbass,
Couldn't one losen the linear rail on the aluminum extursion and then put the top on and then retighten the rails. If some bend was taken out of the extursion the linear rail wouldn't be effected. That should work right?

later
taus

Taus,

My understanding of linear bearings is that they require precise adjustment, especially when two or more are used for the same axis. As you pointed out, loosening both rails would allow me to tighten the top to the extrusions and then retighten the rails without straining them. However, I didn't think I had the means necessary to bring both rails back into perfect alignment with themselves and everything else (especially the other axis and the ballscrew on the x). So little was true and straight that I wouldn't even know what to use as a reference. I saw loosening the rails as sacrilege, as then the integrity of the machine's movement rests on my competence to put it back properly. I paid to have the machine shipped assemble so that I wouldn't have to get into that.

Then again, lots of people on this site have made their machines from scratch. Maybe I just lack self-cofidence :violin: ....

Carlo

Overall I like the machine, the working size, etc. I also like the Z axis height.

Good to hear it.

I also think the rails that support the long axis (39" one) are rather small. A 1" by 3" would fit there also (1030 rail) or a 1530 rail would too. I am still thinking of doubling mine with another 1020 rail and probably will.

I take it you mean that you're planning to put another pair of 1020 alum extrusions on the insides of the current 39" rails?

If I read Mach 3 it says my machine is going 1700 ish mm/min which would put it at 70ipm. I don't see how guys are running at 200 ipm as the ballscrews would whip around especially on the long axis and even the Z.

I think both Arch and Akess have claimed 200ipm, but I don't know how they're measuring. I hope a machine with the upgraded screws will handle that, as my plan for a machine would involve making lots of circular cuts with very shallow passes (0.5mm/0.02"). I.e. I'm not going to load it heavily, but I'd need it to move pretty quickly, or it'd take forever to get through a 3/4" sheet.


However, I didn't think I had the means necessary to bring both rails back into perfect alignment with themselves and everything else (especially the other axis and the ballscrew on the x). So little was true and straight that I wouldn't even know what to use as a reference. I saw loosening the rails as sacrilege, as then the integrity of the machine's movement rests on my competence to put it back properly. I paid to have the machine shipped assemble so that I wouldn't have to get into that.

Yea, I'm with you on that one.

I'm not confident of my ability to work with metal, certainly to the tolerances required to create a decent machine, hence buying is the only option.

It seems that you got a particularly 'bad one', which is a great shame, as their machines generally look to be pretty good.

This is a big concern for me, as I'm in the UK, so sorting out problems (and getting new bits) would be very difficult, due to the 5000 or so miles, and 8 hour time difference.

It's really annoying, as I've been doing a lot of searching in both the US and Europe, and even considering shipping and taxes, I've found nothing to beat the 3925 in terms of price and performance. I wonder how insulted they'd be if I asked them to test a machine before it was shipped... :o

Sploo,

They should not be insulted at all (!!) as they say they test every machine before shipping. That is what makes it so dang furstrating because they can't be or they just move them a little and call it a day. If they tested mine or many of the others they should of found the SAME problems we did within mintes of having them. The person that knowns the most about their machine is the one that makes it. Why is it we all have found different issues after getting them.

After they test your ask some questions like...was there any binding in the machine? Are the rails and the crossbraces flat? Did the ballscrews deflect? What is the tolerance of the setup? Any whipping or stalling? etc. And make sure they ship it well. You might want your 3925 taken apart, like mine, to make sure it comes in good shape. It is not hard to put together at all.

taus

They should not be insulted at all (!!) as they say they test every machine before shipping. That is what makes it so dang furstrating because they can't be or they just move them a little and call it a day. If they tested mine or many of the others they should of found the SAME problems we did within mintes of having them. The person that knowns the most about their machine is the one that makes it. Why is it we all have found different issues after getting them.

Absolutely.

It's unfair to expect 100% of items shipped by any company to be 100% reliable, but if I could just be a bit more confident over their testing I would probably have placed a deposit by now.

I think it's highly likely I will buy one of their machines in the long run, as I've yet to find better for the price.

Ah well, I am a professional procrastinator, so it's almost certainly going to be the new year before I order. I guess the best thing to do is keep reading this forum, and learning.

To align the rails you need a reference point. The piece of 1/2" mic 6 on mine is supposed to be flat overall to less than 0.005. I measure from the rail to the plate and set at the same distance along both rails on the long axis (my x). I then can check from the top of the plate to the bottom of the short axis rail. The deviation over the entire top surface is <0.003 when aligned this way.
This is why the deflection in the long axis is such a problem when tolerance in the z axis needs to be minimized.

Hey Carlnpa,

I see. Well, I am going just leave it then. It works well for my needs and if I do decide to do anything, I might just add a top like you mentioned. That would help with any deflection and also help with a place to mount things. K2 has a .375" one if I recall and that would probably do well. I am using 3/4" MDF for now.

I had a great conversation with Ron from K2 today. Things really seem like they have changed since my first post and they seem to be working on a few different things/designs Good stuff :)

Lets get cutting!

Thanks again,
tauseef

Hey guys,

Long time no write :) Well I figured it was time to update on the orginal thread and my machine.

Overall : Very happy with it. Acutally I love it and now that I purchased VCarve Pro I REALLY LOVE IT. I don't know if I love it more because of the program or just the machine :) If anyone of you are looking into programs really check VCarvePro out. It makes machining way to easy!

I have K2's 305 oz/in servo motors with Gecko drives, 24 V 10 amp power. I have a 0.375" aluminum top (edited) from K2 that I finally leveled using the machine. I just cut a mount for a bosch colt trim router using the K2, came out awesome (pics coming). Mach 3.

Y and Z axis are great. X axis is still a bit gritty and the ballscrew is still bent. About 0.08 mm backlash X and maybe 0.04 mm Y and I would say 0 on the Z.

I have played with speed and the most COMFORTABLE speed I can get is around 236 in/min (6000 mm/min) jog. Pretty good. I really wanted 300 ipm but when I run a few axes it stalls. I tried a 20 amp power supply but its probably the computer. So I toned it down to about that :) I generally cut wood around 2500 mm/min (98 ipm) and cut my bosch mount using aluminum with a 3/4" router bit (yikes!), porter cable router, 0.5mm deep at 29 ipm. It came out great! Again will post some pics soon.

I got the bosch trim router after I could not stand the loudness of the PC router anymore.

I finally got a grease gun and put grease in my linear bearings and to my surprise my machine became quite a bit quiter.

I had to retap my mounts for the X axis as they pulled out and stripped (my many times of banging the machine to the edge ! ( I still have to put limit switches on :) so I fixed that part by putting in longer screws tapped into the table from the bottom.

I don't have any major plans for any updates on it...if something breaks I will update it but for now I am happy with the function of the machine... and I LOVE VCARVE PRO.

thats all

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com

Hey Taus, three years goes by in a hurry.
I'm still around and still using mine, it has cut Tens of thousands of parts now, though parts production has really slowed with the downturn in economy. It still is a nice part time income.
I've gone through numerous drive belts on the servos. I'm still chasing accuracy, I added one of Dumpsters' zero backlash nuts to the z axis. I still have problems getting the tool "exactly" perpendicular to the table. The motors all seem to function fine though I'm going to order spares to have on hand. Good to see you went with the 0.5" top, the 0.375" may have been too light. I am still using the original Hitachi router that I started with, the runout is still very low, but it has gotten alot louder over time and I consider it loud now, it used to be very quiet.
I think it may be time to build a new machine, slightly wider and longer, with an adjustable z that can be made perpendicular to the table. My k2 can make this new machine, except for threading the screws.

Hey carlnpa,

Good to hear from you!!! I am mistaken I do have the 0.375" top...when I talked to ron from k2, acutally he called me and told me they had one left and asked if I wanted it. They changed some of the design to allow for the 0.5" so I went from MDF to the 0.375" aluminum top. Still pretty good.

I will have to check if my router is also perpendicular to the table...from what I can tell it seems to be petty darn good. I don't chase the accuracy much as cutting foam airplanes and Vcaring wood gives me the flexabilty.

I actually am thinking of making an enclosure for the machine and putting a dust collector pipe right at the top. than I can cut away and close the machine off.

Good to hear yours is running strong, I can't say I have cut that many parts but the ones I have cut I am happy with.

later
tauseef

Hey guys, I posted my router mount here using the K2 to make it.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71910

Here is some other stuff I made using the K2 and Vcarve Pro

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15995&page=11

taus

Thanks for the updates Tauseef, I was actually just looking at this thread over the weekend. I was thinking man its been nearly 3 and a half years since the last post. It seems like just yesturday.

Hey Tauseef,
I was just looking at the photos on your website and I noticed you have cable carriers on your machine now. Are they a recent addition? I don't remember you having them before. And where did you get them at? I would like to have some for my machine. Thanks- Robbie

Hey Robbie,

Yes I did finally invest in the cable guide after pinching the wire of the Z axis and blowing the fuse. The Y axis runs right through to the other side and the Z axis wire is in the cable guide.

I purchased it here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#cable-and-hose-trays-and-carriers/=a1byu

Mine is 1" wide and 5/8" deep, plenty of room.

Here are some pics.

Also check out what I cut last night...VCarve Pro is simply awesome!! I did not draw this but was a "clipart" and I just did the toolpath and finishing. Not much into motorcycles but man this came out great!!!

tauseef