I'm just wondering if anyone else posting here has performed a retrofit installation of CamsoftCorp pc based cnc. There are supposed to be 7000 installations world wide, and I'd like to chat with other users about it. So, reply below if this pertains to you.

Thank you.

HFD

Welcome to the forum.
Nice to have a neighbor on the board.:p

PEACE:D

I have been using CamSoft for a while and I now say I have a real appreciation for what they have done. I agree that their AS3000 drawing system is out of date, when compared to some of the solid modeling systems I have seen. They do have different levels of the AS3000 CAD/CAM system, even one with solids and 5 axis, but they are very expensive. When talking about their CNC Controllers, I think only that the CNC Professional version comes with Level-1, the 3D basic level. Their CNC Lite and CNC Plus version only offer G code input.

Their CNC Professional is very powerful, it far exceeded by expectations. It can control just about anything that moves. CNC or not. The standard package works fine and is pretty easy to setup and ready use right away. They even have complete diagnostics for automatic servo tuning built in. But since it's so open and flexible you can get your self in over your head if you start customizing things. The whole operator screen is customizable using bitmap images, their G and M codes are customizable and things like digital I/O programming are built right into the software. It's also very fast too.

I would say that in the beginning I had some trouble wiring my machine and I didn't get much help from CamSoft, but they did offer me a local guy that knew both their stuff and electrically wiring that offered to get me going. I ended up figuring out the wiring my self with their help. To be fair I have to say though that they are a nice group of guys on the phone. The people I speak with over there are very knowledgably and have helped me out when ever I needed them.

I would like to see them come out with a newer looking CAD/CAM interface, but their CNC controller is awesome and things like being able to write your own customer spindle threading routine isn't even possible in other systems.

I like it and would recommend it to others that really want to do it their own installation.

Hi Bob,

I'm glad to hear that you like it.

One thing I was thinking about the other day, but forgot to come here and post about it. I was reading about "outstanding machine crash stories" over at the mastercam forums. This reminded me of how I like the verification function that is part of the Camsoft GUI, that gives you an instant wireframe toolpath view generated from your nc code, so you can pick up on the more obvious blunders when doing some kinds of editing right at the machine.

I was thinking though, about retrofitting a mill using CNC professional and got to wondering how much of a pain is it going to be to wait for the Camsoft verification function to read through a big program while loading it up?

Suppose I wanted to load a 10 meg program, how long would that take? I only have a lathe set up right now, so I've never experienced much of a wait for any lathe program to load. Do you have any experience to relate about this?

Have you used the "smooth on" function for mill? How is it? Again, I find it nice for lathe, but the typical line segments I've been using are quite long, complete profiles, so that doesn't give it a real workout. I'd like to know that I'd really get what I'm imagining, so far as smooth mill performance on very short 3d segments, at higher feedrates.

HuFlungDung,

The CamSoft does give me an instant wireframe toolpath view generated from my G code, but it also does solid modeled real time animation too. If you have Level-5 of higher it will animate the tool cutting process before you press cycle start.

I had the CamSoft CNC Lite first than I upgraded to CNC Professional and I noticed that CNC Lite would load a program much faster of almost any size than CNC Professional. What I see on CNC Professional is that it makes a complete pass through the program once it loads to check for errors and calculate the part size so that it can automatically display a solid model of my block of material for the tool path simulation.

I would guess that 10 meg program would take a few minutes to load initially, but once loaded every other part runs much faster than even a Fanuc.

I think this would be excellent when using the "smooth on" function for a mill. Once loaded they have a FASTMODE feature that they say can cut 3,000 IPM even on huge programs with short line segments. I never cut this fast myself, but I have used their smooth feature for 3D splines and it does cut fast.

Thank you for your reply, Bob.

Did you ever work out a method of altering your Rapid speed "on the fly"? By this, I mean to actually change the Rapid speed when a Rapid move has already started? I know this is common on "real" CNC's, but it seemed like the Camsoft people never knew about it. I did develop a method, so I'm wondering if you did as well?

I hope you two guys don't mind if I jump in here. I need your help and you guys seem pretty knowledgeable on CamSoft. I work as a contactor for a large DOD plant and we have a few CamSoft systems here. Some were here before I arrived. The guys like them and we find their CNC systems more open and powerful than our Fanuc and Fagor controls. One of our big mills has Rapid override. We use a macro called [RAPID OVER RIDE UP] and [RAPID OVER RIDE DOWN] that we found in the MACRO.FIL file on the CamSoft CD. We can select from several different rapid speeds.

This is why I wrote. I have a need to control an actuator that has encoder feedback using the CamSoft CNC Professional. I know how to control axis motion using the GO command, but this actuator uses two relays to move the actuator in or out, not a servo or stepper. I have to position the actuator within a close tolerance and I know the CamSoft system has the power to do this by writing my own G codes or logic macros. My company is out of maintenance and doesn't have the money to resubscribe to support. The guys at CamSoft are great and they have still been helping me, but they say this is custom logic and would have to charge me. Would one of you may be able to help me?

Thanks

Hi DOD_don,

I'll do what I can to help. Its been a few months since I was heavy into this Camsoft logic, but I've got lots of written logic to refer to for ideas.

Usually, the logic sequence is not all that lengthy, so if you like, post whatever you might have developed so far, or we can do it privately, if you would prefer. Discuss the method you had in mind.

If we're successful, I'm going to twist your arm for a contribution to cnczone :D

Is this axis an electric rotary actuator, with a rotary encoder on it, driving a screw or what?

How fast does it move? Is it single speed or variable? Is the load constant throughout its cycle?

Are you looking for infinitely variable position control or two fixed positions?

How do you initialize or home the actuator on startup? Home switches? (A linear scale with an absolute index is very convenient to home).

Do you have limit switches on this axis?

Is simultaneous motion involved with any other axis?

I assume that you have a spare axis slot available from your motion card? I think you'd need it to get encoder data into the system.

What kind of motion card is it?

What version of CNC Professional are you running now?

That should get the ball rolling. :)

Our own forum! Thanks, Paul G :)

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the support. We have been watching the responses.

Just to show we're nice guys we are making up a dual relay controlled hydraulic or pneumatic actuator logic routine using encoder feedback available to all of our customers, in or out of maintenance. Please e-mail us support@cnccontrols.com and mention the word Actuator in the subject line and we'll e-mail it to you.

Anyone can feel free to ask us any other questions directly at support@cnccontrols.com also.

Originally posted by HuFlungDung
Our own forum! Thanks, Paul G :)

Ask and you shall recieve. :)

Hi Camsoft,

Hope you are still doing well. I hope this forum can be of benefit to you. I am still considering a re-retro fit application to a mill. Of course, I'll be using your CNC Professional software for this :)

I was hoping that when I joined the Camsoftcorp user's group, that there would have been some kind of a forum to bounce ideas and problems around. And here it is way over here! :D

Thanks guys

That did the trick. The custom routine works. I was able to modify the logic slightly to fit our needs myself. I really do appreciate all you've done for us. I will put in for another requisition for maintenance again. The department I work for may have a little left over in the budget when the governments year ends Sep 31.

Your welcomed Don, we're glad we can help. Also Murray if that's you of course, thank you for starting the thread.

If there's any thing you would like to get correct detailed technical support on, any one is welcomed to use our support@camsoftcorp.com address.

Pretty much we will stay out of the chat unless we feel we need to get involved.

Take a look at the new CamSoft banner on the home page of CNC Zone that went up today.

Yes I have used Camsoft CNC controller software and had deja vu when I saw some of the post on this site. Some of the comments that hit close to heart were halfbaked, having someones working logic instead of the "bare nuts" examples and how
Camsoft insists certain things work fine when it's
obvious, to me anyway, they don't.

The last installation I preformed was on a Mazak
V-15 with a 30 tool magazine. When I finally got
the tool changer working with any consistantsy the last thing you wanted to do is put the control in diagnostics mode and try a tool change, if you have ever used this software chances are you know what I'm talking about.

The Camsoft concept is a great one and everything
has to start somewhere. It has been my experience with retrofitting with this software that is it
hard to match the original controls ability to
control the machine. I believe the maker or makers of this software would do the best job integrating it due to the lack of a information availible in
the manual.

Thanks to be part of this forum

Hi Hillbilly,

Welcome to the forums.

I'm saving the interfacing of a tool changer for my next retrofit :D

I understand what you are comparing, when you compare the operation of the CNC Professional to an original equipment controller.

I spent a huge amount of time creating inter-twined logic between all the I/O operator panel, and various Gcodes and M codes in order to make a machine that is safe to operate. I'm not talking about spending a mere weekend setting it up, either ;)

This is what a person would normally pay a PLC programmer good dollars to set up: idiot protection :) "Well, of course, if you press that button while the program is running, of course, the spindle will stop but the axis will keep moving. Why would anyone press that button?" :D

Hi HFD & All,

I know where you are coming from when you say you spent alot of time. The speculated time, 3 days, of an average retrofit would be a very NASTY machine to operate.

Some of the things considered to be standard safety and operational features of any CNC control require much additional time to impliment.

I wish you luck on the upcoming tool changer and
would be glad to share my logic. Beware of the 150 maximum lines in a MACRO.Fil.

If I had it to do over I would use a seperate PLC to control the tool changer.

I forgot to mention in my first reply as to the loading and verifying of large files. You will find your MDI EDIT window gives out before you hit 10 meg but it still plots the tool path.

Thanks again for the ear

To Mr. Hillbilly,

I believe I can help you setting up your system. I want to be a dealer for CamSoft and I have the latest software and documentation. I have been doing this for years and I am pretty good at the CNC controller. I don't know much about their CAD/CAM system. They gave me 5 printed manuals. There must be 1,500 pages plus the CD has over 50 megs of text, movies and pictures and charts. My most recent version of CNC Professional has dozens of pre-written logic routines including 9 tool changers.

I know how to use the system and the diagnostic. I find the diagnostic tool far superior to the Fanuc and Fagor systems I have used. I will agree that the tool change logic routines are not cut and paste, but done of the other CNC controllers I have worked with even provided me with a template or example for my tool changer like CamSoft does. I have noticed that they do require customizing. I personal prefer CamSoft's approach of having the computer become the PLC, because I don't know PLC ladder logic.

I never ran the CNC Lite version but , if you have CNC Professional I believe a can write you a tool change routine and test it in their Desktop simulator then simply e-mail it to you. I do charge for this, but it is much easier than other systems I used and it should be pretty cheap. If you are interested all I need is a plain English description of how your tool changer works in a bulleted step by step list and I can do it from here.

Jim Cooper,

I have this tool changer working but do not like the performance.

I did this job for a customer when I was a Camsoft
installer.

Be warned the simulator does not see all the input
changes that will be happening in the real world and every time a input changes the logic file is run. This can build up very quickly if you have a 30 tool changer and have to look for a binary combination of switches. You can forget the WAITUNTIL command unless you dedicate a seperate input to each tool location.

Thanks Anyway

P.S. I prefer ladder logic!

HillBilly,

I was browsing my Camsoft manual, and noticed that they do recommend under certain conditions, that you are better off to use an "IF THEN" loop, rather than "WAITUNTIL".

Using the WAITUNTIL command stops the processing of any digital I/O states, or any other logic until the condition is satisfied.


On a different topic, how is the tool radius compensation system in Camsoft? I've never called this function on my lathe installation, and am wondering how well it works on mill? Any problems or praise?

Hello CamSoft Users,

We have been quietly watching, but because this is a public forum we didn't want a few of the topics to be mis-interrupted as fact just because they were written here. One of the members had written a few items we want to elaborate on for his benefit as well as to provide complete technical details and facts for everyone.

(1) He mentioned a 150 maximum line limit in a MACRO.Fil. However, this is actually insignificant since there is virtually no limit to how many macros you can call, load and execute. Also each macro can stack logic commands almost endlessly one after the other with the colon character. Since one macro can call another recursively for an unlimited number of times plus macros can be nested within other macro calls this far exceeds the power and speed of any physical PLC. The memory space reserved in the computer for all logic files and macros is so large when compared to a physical PLC that it would take at least a dozen PLC's to match the logic storage capacity and speed offer in the CamSoft Professional controller.

(2) He had wrote the MDI EDIT window gives out before you hit 10 meg but it still plots the tool path. True, but in this case the MDI edit window would then automatically display another Window called the File Manager, which can view and edit a file as large as your harddisk. Since the CNC controller has no G code size or memory limitation such as other controllers. The controller can run a G code program of unlimited size while at the same time simultaneously editing a 20 gigabyte file.

(3) It was also said the simulator does not see all the input changes that will be happening in the real world. The response here is the same we gave privately. There is something wrong with this computer or setup. All digital I/O states and events are detected and acted upon in real time. The history file will confirm this. We understand he is saying this only happens in simulator mode, but even so if the light bulb on the simulator screen does not turn on then the computer or Windows itself is either too busy running other task, services or the computer CPU is too slow to refresh the screen quicky. If you don't see a simulator light bulb for a digital I/O event than contact tech support for more items to check or perhaps use a different computer. Properly setup up with no other running programs running such as screen savers, virus checking or third party services while the controller in up and running using a modern computer, lights should flicker on/off faster than humanly noticeable.


(4) In another post he wrote the amount a data written to the diagnostic screen can build up very quickly if you have a 30 tool changer and have to look for a binary combination of switches. You can forget the WAITUNTIL command unless you dedicate a separate input to each tool location.

HuFlungDung did point out that the documentation suggest the use of IF THEN rather than WAITUNTIL in this case. This is good advice plus there is more to this that can help everyone further. Granted that while in diagnostic mode massive amounts of logic can be displayed on the screen as the installer is testing the system, but it doesn't have to be. The diagnostic window can be closed and a history of every real time I/O, User action and Motion event can be logged chronologically by hour, minute and second to a text file which can be e-mailed to a support engineer using the LOGOPEN command. Physical PLC's don't offer this type of real time live diagnostics and do not allow you to interact with them as their running to the extent that CamSoft controllers allow you to do so simultaneously with motion commands and user interaction events embedded in the diagnostics files either while on-site or from a remote computer. If one writes the logic efficiently to branch off and run only the routine in focus while skipping the un-necessary logic then the use of WAITUNTIL , SLEEP and endless GOTO LOOPS are a mute issue. The end result is a logic philosophy so advanced that the average shop owner has the intelligences to write and diagnose huge logic files that would literally take 12 PLC's to accomplish while far exceeding the scan rate of all well known PLC brands by 200% - 300%. The computer becomes the PLC running over a dozen multiple tasking logic files simultaneously. There is no need to learn ladder logic, VB or C++. The concepts CamSoft presents are unique with the power and speed far beyond the limited memory size of all major brand PLC's.


(5)HuFlungDung had ask about tool radius compensation system in Camsoft and were wondering how well it works on mill?
CamSoft does offer standard tool comp for 120 tools plus tool wear and tool life reports. More importantly CamSoft exceeds all standard controllers in tool compensation with a patent pending technology for Multi-axes Tool Compensation at the CNC controller. Which provides CNC machinists using CNC Controllers a convenient method for applying tool compensation as they enjoy now when using the traditional 2D tool comp standards G41 and G42. Up to now CNC controllers have not been technically advanced enough to employ multi-axes tool compensation methods. Using these defined methods for multi-axes tool compensation the machine operator now has a pre-defined method to assign 3D and 5 axis tool characteristics at the CNC control. CNC programmers now have the tools to issues 3D and 5 axis tool comp commands which have not been available in traditional CNC controllers. The CNC machine operator does not require the assistance of the CNC programmer to re-create a brand new CNC G code Program with new tool information and definitions when a change is made. This allows the CNC machine operator to define the new tools him or her self using complex 3D and 5 axis tool compensation algorithms built into the CNC Controller. These algorithms also provide for automatic tool gouge avoidance protection.


Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
909-674-8100 ph
909-674-3110 fax
www.cnccontrols.com
support@cnccontrols.com

Thanks for that reply, Camsoft. I think it is great when you post info like this, so that the interested public knows what you have accomplished in your software. Granted there may be problems that users get stuck on, but sometimes, they (we, me) give up on attaining the solution just a little bit too soon :)

Of course, the user's approach to any given situation "in the field" is limited to personal experience, and imagination to some degree. This is what keeps the "proprietory cnc's" in business, I guess, is that they have accumulated years of experience and have staff working continually on improving their interface and functionality, working entirely on an "in-house" combination of hardware that is thoroughly understood, or even designed to match a PLC or whatever they use.

But, I know from personal experience, that your company is interested in helping users solve problems, while at the same time, some of our problems are very unique to our situations, and could hardly be foreseen.

I hope that continuing discussions like this will help draw favourable attention to the benefits of PC based cnc, and that potential users will come to understand that it is still an evolving field.

To everyone

The responsibility or guarantee is between you and your installer.

I have noticed that all software, including Microsoft have these similar disclaimers.

I am writing because I want people to know that when we install CamSoft or any brand that we give a complete guarantee to our customers.

I agree with Hungflung when he said that the tech staff at CamSoft does care about their customers. I have received good support on my own system.

We also guarantee our CamSoft installations.

I must add that I have come to trust the CamSoft people much more over the years than some of the service from other systems I used. Some ones always there to talk to live and I always have got more free help from CamSoft than from any other company. I also have sent them a ton of e-mail and I always get a complete, quick response. I agree with the others they have been in business over 20 years and believe they stand behind their products.

Bob

I'd like to hear how other installers have handled the lathe threading problem, or , how other cnc software handles the problem.

Even running a program directly in Galil hardware memory, there were several different methods of triggering the synchronized movement that did not work well. Camsoft's methods using a virtual index gave the same results as some of those methods.

The problem stems, I believe, from the speed of response that Windows has to an input. It is not that it has to be lightning fast, but it definitely has to be exactly repeatable, with regard to whatever delay is built into the system. The virtual index is relying on a trigger method that is not repeatable, hence the varying sync times.

Let's put this one to bed.

Single point threading is not actually the issue, rather it is multiple pass threading where timing of the spindle rotation to the beginning of the start of the next thread at high RPMs is paramount to a perfect pitched thread. Here again it wasn't ever a question as if it would work. It was performance verses accuracy. These two factors are at a tug of war when it comes to threading and they would vary greatly depending on the computer, encoder feedback, mechanics and I/O card you have to work with.

At worst case what would happen would be a long pause between thread passes. This could be anywhere from just a milliseconds to infinity. One would have to sacrifice RPM speed to reduce the pause between the multiple passes.

The factors that present the challenge are:

(1) Computer CPU speed and Windows version. So far only Windows XP running a Pentium IIII or the AMD Athlon gives you 15ms CPU clock cycles. All other versions of Windows running any other processor gives you 60ms. Also raw CPU Mhz speeds factor in. Computers with CPU speeds over 850 Mhz offer the best results.

(2) Digital I/O and motion card brands. Changes in I/O states are reacted upon between 18 times per second to 10,000 depending on model. Most of the auxiliary digital I/O brands we offer reach 10k when installing the CamSoft drivers for these cards.

(3) If the controller has variable spindle speed RPM control verses a fixed RPM set by manual gear ranges.

(4) Encoder feedback, number of counts per revolution. The higher the frequency the better the controller can adjust the RPM to match small variations of cutting feed and overcome resistance of the cutting forces. This is different than the index marker.

(5) Mechanical backlash, rigidity and responsiveness.

The fewer of these challenges you have to face the higher the threading RPM speed can be. Also settings such as Tolerance can come into play. The effect the tolerance setting has is that if it's too tight the pause between passes are lengthen. If it's set too loose than pitch accuracy is effected.

For lathes not facing these challenges one could expect to reach up to 3,000 RPM using the standard product and default threading routines. Users of our rigid threading routines which require servo control over the spindle, is bullet fast at 10,000, 20,000 or even 30,000 RPM depending on your mechanical limitation and cutting tools.

To elaborate on the routine HFD made for his Hardinge we believe he has done very well considering that he did face the first 3 challenges. First the threading routine he made is working well. Having said this you must keep in mind this is a unique case. For HFD he faced challenges that other did not have to contend with, but yet he was able improved it himself. Others with similar Hardinge lathes should examine what HFD has accomplished and the routine is very sophisticated and we have acknowledged it value.

What's important here is that he was able to overcome the RPM limitation plus increase the time between passes by having an open and flexible controller that allowed him to customize the system and see his ideas come true.

HFD has upgraded from the Lite version to CNC professional, but when he started he first used CNC Lite. Perhaps others could learn from this. Here's how he did it. Keep in mind that his Hardinge has manual gears so he didn't have the luxury of the control to vary the spindle RPM for him. So he ingenuously connected the index marker from the encoder on the spindle to an digital input on the motion board. Effectively giving him a hardware "go signal" as he had written once to us to coordinate the spindle rotation to the beginning of the next thread pass. Of course we are going back years now so all there was to work with were computers with 60ms clocks. Also he was handicapped by using the digital inputs on the motion board which signal very slow when compared to a OPTO22 digital rack which would of given him a 555% faster trigger.

With today's computers, I/O boards and CNC software it would be different.

Today in the current version we offer 3 methods. You can select between three basic methods during setup then customize from there if need be.

(1) No RPM control with only feed rate velocity override.

(2) Encoder feedback with spindle RPM control can easily cut multiple passes up to 3,000 RPM at high feedrates. For example 3,000 RPM the thread cut would be at 250 IPM feedate or .0833 IPR for a 12 pitch thread.

(3) Rigid threading, which is bullet fast at 10,000, 20,000 or even 30,000 RPM.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
(909) 674-8100
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.cnccontrols.com

Could you elaborate more on this:

(1) Computer CPU speed and Windows version. So far only Windows XP running a Pentium IIII or the AMD Athlon gives you 15ms CPU clock cycles. All other versions of Windows running any other processor gives you 60ms. Also raw CPU Mhz speeds factor in. Computers with CPU speeds over 850 Mhz offer the best results.

Did you mean a Pentium III or a Pentium IV? ;)

What is this 60 versus 15ms cpu cycles? It sounds like it would be a considerable boost to move to XP, or is the difference not all that profound in "real life"?

I got my biggest boost in performance, not by switching from an AMD350 to an Athlon550, but rather, changing the refresh rate of the Galil card itself. This is something that was not addressed in the manual, but is of profound impact on how fast the cnc responds. Doing this does involve changing some program variables by the same factor as the card refresh rate, but it was well worth doing.

Dear HuFlungDung,

Yes, we did mean a Pentium 4 or as you have an AMD Athlon. We can't say with any certainty when AMD started with the faster clock rate, but we do know that a few of our AMD Athlon's here all have the 15ms clock. Our earliest model is a 1.6 Ghz so we're just not quite sure if your 800mhz would take advantage of this, but if it did you would notice an improvement on the motions card I/O response time using the same computer with XP.

In short the CPU clock rate is controller by a "crystal" chip on the mother board. Which for Windows this means that it updates all it's external registers to cards in the PCI bus. These registers are temporary holding places for data or numbers to pass between other communicating Windows programs. Windows can calculate math and pass data many, many times faster within itself and even see the changes made to the registers but the clock rate is what determines the frequency of chunks or packets of data being passed through the bus. Don't get this advice wrong. PCI is still the fastest means of communications for CNC. 133mhz PCI buses can still pass data through the bus fast. It's just done in packets, not sequentially one byte at a time. The data passed using PCI used to be only 33-66 mhz. CamSoft gets around this with our digital I/O cards, because we wrote an assembler language driver to talked directly to the 8255 chip on the digital I/O board, bypassing Windows.

Keep in mind that Windows 2000 and XP load , use and run many more background services than earlier version of Windows. Also older computers may have bus speeds of only 33mhz. So performance could degrade if your computer was running Windows 98 or ME originally, since these operating systems have such low over head and memory requirements.

One last note. The current CamSoft installation CD and software provide for every Windows logo choice when installing from 95 through XP. So please take notice that your current version gives you that choice before you load XP. You can place the CD in the CD tray and it will start itself just to take a look, giving you a chance to continue or not. Each Windows version has it's own digital I/O and motion card drivers so earlier installation CD's may not have an XP choice.

Regarding changing the refresh rate of the motion card. We're sure this would help, however we consider you brave. We don't recommend because it changes other functions as well, such as the servo tuning and ect...

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
(909) 674-8100
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.cnccontrols.com

Camsoft, I still don't know what system time increment you are referring to with the change from 60 millisecond to 15 millisecond? Is this the I/O update rate? I know about mainboard bus speeds and such, and about servo update rate of the Galil boards, but what you are referring to is new to me. How would a person check this setting?

Hu,

Camsoft has a CPU speed check that comes on the demo disk or the software disk. The fastest computer that I've seen is a P4 with RAMBUS memory. I have a 3 year old P4 1700 that checks at 11 MS. I just built a brand new P4 3 gig that has the 800 hertz frontside bus with 1 gig of DDR memory that checks at 16 ms. Boy was I disapointed in the new one.

Yes, we are referring to the rate of I/O, but there are exceptions.

While the I/O state has actually changed, Windows hasn't noticed. Windows registers that pass this data from the motion board update at the rate of your clock speed. So you would only be able to notice a change in I/O state from the motion board at either 15ms or 60ms, unless you installed and used the CamSoft drivers for auxiliary digital I/O boards. This rate is 10,000 times per second. Although other items that pass data such as real-time position updates use DMA.

We should also mention that there are two other techniques that are used called DMA or direct memory access and dual ported ram. Both of which pass data without regard to packets, but the driver has to take advantage of this in each case. Items such as position update use DMA, while I/O does not for some reason on this particular card. The 15ms or 60ms rate is plenty fast enough for limit switches, push buttons, ect... just not timing sensitive external devices. This rate also has nothing to do with G code processing, motion control, handwheels, encoder feedback or laser firing just to name a few.


To check your systems speed. There is a free test that you can download at:
http://www.cnccontrols.com/custreg.asp?MENU=demos
Then select CamSoft Utilities, then CPU Speed Test.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
(909) 674-8100
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.cnccontrols.com

My observation,

This is starting to sound proprietary.
(If you use our board and our drivers.)

This is the reason I would use a separate PLC.
(Price is similar and I know what I'm getting.)

It does not sound like, in the event of PC failure you can just grab any modern PC off the self install your boards ,software and continue buisness as usual.

Maybe I'm wrong?

Darek (Mr. Hillbilly)

Yes, your wrong, but you knew the answer to this.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
(909) 674-8100
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.cnccontrols.com

Hey CamSoft,

Why don't you put Squarewave in touch with someone
who has done an EDM retrofit?

Later.

I build CNC Machines and recently had dealings with a CamSoft Controller. Here is what I found out on my own. The CNC Lite and Lite Plus Packages do not have DSP. Which is the heart of a controller and looks ahead in the program codes. This is the reason for the jerky and hesitation at the end of each line of code. Camsoft uses a bandaid to get around this problem called G11, G08, G10. Also check this out try to enter a value in your Blend setting in the Setup Parameters. Click save and exit out. Now open this back up - Where did your value go?? This is a software problem and can be corrected by contacting them. But it still does not help to smooth out the cuts in CNC Lite Plus.

Also if you are using the recommended Galil Card it does not have a RC filter on it and will require you to do some fancy adding of Capacitors to avoid the EMI from your system.

Good Luck

Toons,

I don't know how to put this any other way but you couldn't be more mistaken in almost every comment you made. My advice would be to get your installer back out to figure out what's wrong or at least bring your computer to them and say everything you said here. If you did this your self then have someone come take a look, it may be something simple.

The Galil motion card and CNC Lite and Plus systems are all DSP based, even CamSoft's $395 serial based 3 axis controller is. I have checked this out thoroughly and it is the fastest, smoothness continuous motion I have ever seen. Check directly with Galil regarding the spec's of their card and you can see for your self.

I once saw a demo on a desk top servo controller of theirs that cut a 4 megabyte 3D helical part made up of extremely small/short 3D G01 moves cut at 3,000 IPM smoothly. I was impressed. A Fanuc 21i can't even do this.

The G11, G08/G09 are really nice additions to the standard G code set to smooth out the places where weight and inertia are factors, especially when changing cutting directions quickly. They are perfect for controlling and inserting forced decel on a as-needed basis and allow splines and other mold type contours to cut smoothly. I have to agree that CNC Lite/Plus leaves room for improvement when it comes to high speed machining. I had to switch over to CNC Professional to use SmartPath a few years back because CNC Lite wouldn't cut fast enough. I also noticed that the Ethernet version of the Galil card is much slower than the PCI version.

It boils down to either mechanics or parameter setup or both. Lots of different things matter like how the machine is built for rigidness and stability plus computer speed and motor size. The BLEND setting saves and restores fine with our CNC Plus system, but it wasn't always there in previous versions. CNC Professional has had this for as long as I know of. It is a new addition and may have something to do with a mixed-match version of the SETUP program and the CBK file your using. I think you'll find that setting BLEND, BUFFER and TOLERANCE are your keys to smoothness, but I have also noticed that high feedrates on programs with short moves or programs with abrupt changes in direction are best handled in CNC Lite or Plus with G11 and for 3D splines use G08/G09.

I have set up many CamSoft systems and never even heard of RC filters or find a mention of capacitors or RC filers in the CamSoft or Galil documentation. All work fine. You gotta have some sort of electrical problem.

I have to say I don't know much about what your cutting, but if your not getting 200-300 IPM from CNC Lite or Plus than I think this system was not installed correctly. Most likely the parameters for your machines need to be fine-tuned and your installer should give the electrical wiring a once over. Also inquire about the motor size chosen.

I hope you figure this out.

Bob

Toons and Router,

DSP is a function of the Galil card. If it has it, it has it. I don't believe that this turns on and off with software. The comparison chart is pointing out that the difference between the CNC lite and CNC professional is that the latter has look ahead.

32 bit DSP based microprocessor motion card available capable of 62.5 millionths of a second servo update times per axis & feed rates up to 122,000 IPM
This is followed by a Yes in every column.


Dynamic look ahead with DSP buffering for extremely fast G code throughput. Look ahead your entire program length
This is followed by a Yes only in CNC professional. This does not mean that DSP has been disabled in the rest!


RE: up front cost: I can't see any other state of the art controller package costing less than CNC Professional. Sure, its not cheap cheap, but nothing worth having is. :D

Anyways, I don't see the point in griping that CNClite doesn't do everything that CNC Professional can do. Full program look ahead is a major feature worth charging something extra for, IMO.

Some simpler applications do exist where the users would not be making good use of CNCProfessional features. Otherwise, if you want all the features, you have to buy the big package. Seems like a common choice we have to make whenever we buy something.

BTW, if you do more than one CAMsoft retrofit, the next time around is much less expensive.

Not to name names, but let us say to Mr. TOON and Mr. ROUTER, this is un-called for. We know that TOON and ROUTER are both Centroid competitors of CamSoft writing from the same company concealed behind hidden identities.

Truly trying to bad mouth a competitor as a factious user is getting pretty low. You don't see us making any comments about your products.

Mis-leading the readers of CNC Zone for personal gain is no wonder the internet is a poor source for good information. It is just very sad and shows un-professional company behavior that someone would want to compete this way.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
(909) 674-8100
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.cnccontrols.com

I will definitly agree if this is the case!

But I must add that I think it is pretty low for a company to bypass their area repersenative on a second sell to a previous customer.

By the way CamSoft we gave up on the GAUGE command and used the BAR command instead.

Thanks.

Dear Hillbilly,

We do want to say thanks for the support, but since you began writing in CNC Zone you have been our competitor too, selling Max NC and it shows...

We do know who you are and we want you to take notice that all of this time we haven't said anything derogatory about your company or even gave your company name, even though all the things you've wrote. Not because we believe they are correct, but because it's just not the right thing to do. People are turned off by companies that bad mouth their competitors.

Please understand that we did call you and give you first chance at this job. You were the one that gave permission to our VP to pass, because your company was low on funds. We did make a honest effort to include you.

If you ever want to talk about it further, you are more than welcomed to call here anytime.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.camsoftcorp.com
(909) 674-8100

This topic has been closed it has strayed way off course. Feel free to open it up under a new thread.