Problems with Centroid M400

[glbreil]

I turned on the mill last night and got the following messages on the screen.

Spindle Inverter Fault Detected
Emergency Stop Released
Z Limit #6 Excceeded Limit
Spindle Inverter Fault Detected

When I released the emergency stop the CT1 Relay did not close.

When you hit the cylce start button the nothing happens. The lube pumps don't even run.

After some searching I have determined that the errors detected do not really exist. For instance all the limit switches are closed as they should be.

The emergency stop button is functioning properly.

I also found that if I put all of the limit switch dip switches on the servo board in the up position (bypass) then the emergency stop relay will pull in and I can jog the axis, however nothing else that requires an input will operate such as the spindle will not run.

I am not sure what else to check to determine narrow down and isolate the problem.

Any help would be appreciated. Gary

[glbreil]

Okay after reading everything I can find I have determined a few things that hopefully will give you some idea of how to help me.

What I discovered is that there are two dip switches marked G & 5 on the lower left side of the servo drive and when I push them down toward the board (in bypass position) I am able to put all of the limit defeating switches back in the down position and the alarms cleared.

Once I did that my emergency stop button began working and the ES contactor dropped when the ES button was released.

I am able to home the machine now, but the spindle will not run from the control.

However my spindle inverter has a remote/local switch on it and I can put the inverter in the local control position and the spindle operate properly from the inverter key pad.

It seems as though the problem is in the direction of the RTK2 borard, but the limits do go through that board and do work with the two dip switches toggled.

Help is appreciated, Thanks Gary

[rmarchjr]

Gary,

I don't have centroid but on the machines I have worked with lots of nonsense alarms general have to do with a power supply issue - control voltage 24v or 10v or one of those.
I would start there.

[cncsnw]

I think rmarchjr is on the right track. My guess is that the RTK2's on-board 5VDC supply is failing/failed. When you toggle either the limit switch defeaters or the E-stop circuit DIP switches on the servo drive, you are allowing the servo drive's 5VDC supply to feed into the RTK2.

With the DIP switches back in the normal position, or with the two cables that connect the RTK2 to the servo drive unplugged, check for 5VDC on the 2-pin header on the end of the RTK2 unit (on the short board). I think there is also an indicator LED that should show if that supply is up.

If it is out, the problem is with a switching power supply built onto the bottom-most board in the RTK2 stack. If you are particularly good with electronics you might be able to troubleshoot and fix it yourself. The rest of us just send them in to Centroid for swap-out or repair.

[glbreil]

Thanks so much for both of your responses, I have checked the 5 volt power on the RTK2 and with the two toggle switches up I do have 5 volts on the RTK2 and the the 5 volt LED on the bottom board is lit.

If I disconect the wires from the servo board or put the switches in the normal position I lose power to the RTK2 and the LED goes out.

So just to clairfy, the RTZ2 should have 5 volt power even when not connected to the servo, that is what you are saying?

Is the power coming from that board on the bottom, I unplugged it and it appears at a glance just to be a juction block that connects the 3 upright boards together. Do you know which one actually has the 5 volt power supply?

If you send the boards in for repair or trade do you send the whole RTK2 stack or just a partucular board from the stack?

And last the only info I see on the Centroid site is I guess for a new RTK2 - $980.00 About what does repair cost, any idea?

Thanks Again for your replies! Gary

[cncsnw]

Originally Posted by glbreil So just to clairfy, the RTZ2 should have 5 volt power even when not connected to the servo, that is what you are saying? Is the power coming from that board on the bottom, I unplugged it and it appears at a glance just to be a juction block that connects the 3 upright boards together. Do you know which one actually has the 5 volt power supply?

When I say "bottom board" I mean the large board nearest the panel, farthest from you. I guess that is only really on the bottom if you take the whole unit out and set it on the bench.

Yes, the RTK2 should have 5VDC even when not connected to the servo drive.

You remove and send out the whole unit (four boards and a base plate). Usually it is secured to the panel with four screws in keyhole holes in the base plate. Unplug all the connectors, loosen the screws a couple turns, and lift the unit off.

The RTK2 makes its DC power from the 24VAC supply that comes in a 2-pin orange Phoenix plug on the top (near) edge of the short board. Check that you have 24VAC coming in there. If you don't, follow it back toward the big transformer to see where you are losing it.

[glbreil]

Thanks again for the help. I am going to pull it out of the machine and give it a good looking over to see if it has any bad solder joints or anything obvious and if not I will send it in the get repaired.

Any ideas about what it will cost for repair? Is it ussually a flat rate or actually based on the problem found? I have never had a problem besides an encoder.

CNCSNW after realizing who you were, I wanted to thank you again, as I have searched for help on the internet I found more useful information on your website that anywhere else. I know you make a living at this and if I have the occasion to do any king of upgrade or retrofit I will contact you.

Thanks Again and I will update you with the end result. Gary

[glbreil]

I went ahead and pulled the RTK2 stack of boards apart and to look them over for obvious problems and found that on the back board (RTK2C) that is has a power supply mounted on it and the power supply has gone bad.

The power supply on my board is a TOKO American ET10-01 which is a 10 watt multi output (5v. +/-12v). But to my not so good fortune it has been obsolete since the year 2000.

I was wondering/hoping that someone had a newer RTK2 stack sitting around that they could look at this power supply and see what brand and number it was.

I am considering just using a computer power supply which I think will work fine but would be some serious over kill on wattage, but I would rather have an exact replacement.

Ther are no longer data sheets available on the TOKO but surley Centroid had a replacement for them.

Thanks Gary

[cncsnw]

On newer RTK2 units, Centroid built their own switching power supply on the bottom board.

In other applications, they replaced the Toko ET10-01 with a Cosel LDC15F-1. I have also used a MeanWell PT-45B.

With a replacement, you will probably want to mount it elsewhere and run extended wires from and to the RTK2C board, instead of trying to make it fit in the original space.

[glbreil]

Thanks Again so much, I just ordered and Cosel LDC15F-1 and the plugs for it. Hopefully that will put me back in business.

Thanks Again and I will let you know how it comes out. Gary

[rmarchjr]

Gary,

Sounds like you'll do fine.
I started CNC using very old machines, I have replaced just about every voltage PS over the years and as long as they output the correct voltage and are equal to or larger (watts)you should do well.
I also typically try to relocate them to the coolest part of cab, rewire, and relabel, and mark drawing with new replacement part#.
Check your grounds as well, PS failure may indicate a poorly grounded machine.

[glbreil]

I have one more question. I received my Cosel LDC15F-1 power supply and on my board the ground for the 5 volt and +/-12 volt runs together. G1 and G2 are connected on the board and on the old power supply.

On the Cosel power supply the G1 and G2 are isolated from each other. I haven't powered it up and checked voltage with just one, but with the ohm meter there is not any continuity between G1 and G2.

What did you do when you used this power supply? If I put the wires back to the same place on the board the G2 will be isolated because it is a dead pin on the board, it does not go any where.

Just wondering what you did, I will probably power it up and do some checking I just didn't want to come this far and mess it up.

Thanks Gary


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