End of the Centroid disaster.

[Putterman]

I have finall rid myself of the M-400 I bought. They sounded like a good company that had things going in the right direction. Well, I was wrong. After much trouble with service I finally removed this new M-400 turnkey package from the Bridge mill I built for a client and replaced it with a solid easy to use machine tool control and now all is well. So look for an AD next week I am selling this Centrod for less than dealer cost and I will include a Spindle Drive for free.

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[NC Cams]

Just curious, what brand of "real machine tool control" did you end up using???

[DRD]

I have had my centriod for 2 years now, I installed the kit, and it runs every day without a problem. Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.
I love my centriod.

[cnckeith]

send me a price with the options installed and the serial number.

[Putterman]

We are putting Fagor 8070 Controls on all of our machines.
[Text removed by svenakela].

[Putterman]

I have it listed at Machinetools.com and will list it here as soon as I get some time. Price is below dealer cost and it includes all Motors 2kw, Drives, limits, cables and MPG. As well as a Spindle Drive. This is a turnkey package prewires and ready to install.

[Putterman]

[Text removed by svenakela]. I am selling it for less than I paid for it I am asking $12,500 It is a turn key system with 2kw Motors and drives, I was not well treated by the Centroid folks. So I took my business to a company who supports their what they sell. If you like the Centroid product then good for you. I had three buyers who would only buy from me if I offered them a control other than Centroid. So the centroid experiment is over for me.

[cnckeith]

price sounds high for a 2kw system, AGAIN what options are installed? AGAIN what is the serial number? seems like all you want to do is blow hot air here.. its not surprising to me that no one would buy a machine from you, you can't even answer simple questions.

[Putterman]

[Text removed by svenakela] The Control is listed on this site. If you think this Control is so great then buy it othewise go away. The price I asking is less than dealer cost. If you knew anything about the Control you would know this. It retails for over $16,000 not including the MPG and Spindle Drive. As far as selling machines is concerned, once I got rid of the Centroid junk I closed on 4 machines this year. Machinery buyers just don't want Centroid controls. Sorry but it is just a fact of life.

[Putterman]

In case you are interesed here is a link of many others who share my view of Centroid

http://www.cnczone.com/cg...5.html?#000000

[svenakela]

Putterman, there are some specific questions in the thread, why don't answer them instead and you'll maybe get rid of the items? Maybe Keith is on the payroll, but you could be on Fagor's...

If someone's interested, the parts are here:
http://www.cnczone.com/classifieds/s...p/product/1474


Regards,
Sven

[NC Cams]

The link posted in reply #12 is broken.

The current discussion involves that of a dissatisfied user of Centroid with that of a user having an opposite opinion. The 'food fight' asside, I would hope that this thread provides insight and guidance to ANYONE who intends to buy a machine controller and to do a retrofit.

There will always be clients who swear by and those who swear at a product - we seem to have two here. This does not mean that the product, per se, is junk. However, it does indicate that no one can please everyone all the time.

We were in the market to do a lathe retrofit last summer. The whole project got put on hold when we learned as a result of postings on the 'Zone in concert with a lot of research on our own that there was not a lot of hardware out there that would suit our needs. At the time, Centroid seemed like the best option.

However, as anyone who does a "lathe retrofit" search on this website will learn, our experiences as well as those voiced by other alleged Centroid customers, made us think twice, no 3 times about using that particular product.

We didn't stop there. We looked into MDSI, Camsoft and god knows who else. NOBODY and I do mean NOBODY had a bolt on controller that didn't need some programming written or some other show stopper that I'd think would have been relatively idiot proofed in the operating system.

All we wanted was a simple control that would bolt on and run G code in order to do simple turning and spacing and an occasional threading operation, over and over and over - to some extent, what an Expath or Fanuc 5T does, namely, make simple parts.

Centroid wanted me to trash all my like new 7 amp, 140VDC Fanuc servos because their servo amps (well within the Fanuc motor rating) "wouldn't work". They then offered to have their local rep call to help with selecting the retrofit parts - almost 2 years later, he still hasn't called. The horror stories shared by some of the posters in the "lathe retrofit" thread merely cemented my decision, namely, do something different.

MACH was out of the question. I contacted them and they could not/would not support the interfacing of their product with SERVOS. I was not in the mood for a science project, I only wanted to make parts on a day to day business.

For this reason, I could NOT take the chance of using a hobby oriented system that I could not get on-site support for - the use of message boards is OK for DIY hobby use but suicide for a business that relies on the machine running and making parts.

The lesson here is to investigate your supplier. Be forewarned that you won't always get the straight story, either way. In cases where you can get info, you can usually make out enough of a picture to judge if the product will meet your needs and, more importantly, satisfy your expectations.

In this case, we have examples of users who have each had differing experiences.

My advice is this: if you are not interested in nor capable of doing machine development (perhaps writing code, doing wiring, some engineering), stay away from so called "kits" - they are never plug and play. Either plan on tinkering or finding someone who will install the kit and make it run FOR YOU.

Oh, one more thing: if the guy who does sell and install the kit won't certify and demonstrate the operation of ALL the promised features BEFORE taking final payment (hold some in escrow or some other enticer), think twice about doing business with them.

Nothing like buying a white elephant that doesn't work and then being told by the sales guy "sorry, I can't help you" after he's cashed your check and you have a POS that doesn't work. Where have we seen that scenario before????

[cnckeith]

NC cams, ..good advice.. i concur and certainly applies to buying almost any items other than just a CNC control system. where are you located? I'd be glad to come out and look at your lathe. I'm on the east coast. what make model is it?
I've installed many centroid and ajax cnc controls over the years. and have many very happy repeat customers. If anyone would like retrofitting advice, i'd be glad to help with specific information. I've been retrofitting Milling machines, Lathes and CNC Routers for 15 years now. attached are a few recent photos.

[NC Cams]

Asside from price and features, which can be found in the classified add that the member placed, I'd be disinclined to post serial number info on a M/B posting no matter who asks or why.

When you have the S/N, you can get all sorts of updates and/or system backups that are otherwise unavailable. Posting a S/N on a M/B is sort of like posting you ATM PIN number - not a smart thing to do. It has as much if not more value than the hardware, especially when it comes to warranty service or software updates.

Those interested in Centroid might find this to be an opportunity for an atractive deal, sadly at the expense of someone who isn't satisfied. If that is the case, contact the member and i'm sure a deal can be worked out.

But to bicker back and forth like kids fighting in the back seat, although entertaining, really doesn't do a lot for the advancement of the thread.

[cnckeith]

this is complete baloney! I want the serial number so I can call centroid and find out exactly what I would be buying! duh...

[NC Cams]

CNC Keith: we're in Ann Arbor MI. Things are slow now so we've put the retrofit on back burner.

Besides, we found a guy who does the CNC turning we need for reasonable prices with good quality and good turn arounds - we e-mail him the drawing and he makes the parts. We then pay within 10 days.

Although your services and the services of those like you are quite valued, I don't have the revenue stream to afford to have a retrofitter come in to do the work - besides, I don't want to chissel the services from a person who makes their livelihood on doing retrofits.

I do appreciate the offer, however.

[Al_The_Man]

As someone who has made a living from doing professional retrofits for several years this is my take on the choice a person has when looking at doing a retro fit. And the subject of attempting your own.
Many times the person attempting his own retrofit is very capable, just not that experienced, so what seems like a good idea, ends up being a long learning curve.
Ask anyone that has attempted using one of the PC based Packed systems that claim a retrofit can be done in 3 days.
I would like a $ for every customer of mine that has waved some Magazine article at me showing essentially how a PC can be wheeled up to a machine, connect a few wires and Bingo, CNC retrofit on the cheap.
For someone like myself, it usually requires attendance at one or more of the Manufacturers plants to learn the integration procedure in a fairly short order to cut short this learning curve.
NO, there is NO such thing as a plug and play system, every machine has its challenges and certain 'Engineering' question have to be overcome, it is slightly easier when a retrofit on the same model has already been carried out..

I have used everything from in house designed 'simple' systems using Galil or Acroloop to Camsoft up to Mitsubishi and Fanuc.
If I have a customer that wants a professional system with the lowest possible down time, I would easily suggest a high end system like Mitsubishi, where there is a higher chance of predicting the outcome in terms of successful sytem in the lowest time possible.
Especially when this machine is someones livelyhood.
If you have the luxury of unlimited time, that is another matter.

Comments like 'This product stinks' or 'This is the best system on the market' is rather worthless without some kind of Rational justification or reasoning that is qualified somehow
My 2¢
Al..

[NC Cams]

Re: serial number =

I realize that this is a touchy issue. The current owner can't/won't give up the S/N (neither would I) and the prospective buy wants/needs it to "verify" that he's getting what he's paying for.

If you bought a car, you'd write up a sales contract, in which ALL the deliverables would be defined and certified, woudn't you??? Same thing with a house or anything else workt $12.5K or thereabouts, no?

So, write up a purchase contract. Put the money into escrow just like you do when you buy a house or car. The escrow agent then releases the money when the FULL terms of the contract (the machine deliverables in this case) are satisfied. If the stuff isn't there, the money don't get transferred. The other option is to pay by credit card as they do wondrous things to help resolve purchase conflicts.

Surely, reasonable people can get around the issue of exchanging the S/N if they are truly interested in working out a deal.

If it were me, however, I'd do whatever I could LEGALLY and ETHICALLY and MORALY do to affect a sale.

But, BUT I would not give out the S/N to anyone but the true and actual buyer of the machine - too many games can be played with a valid S/N that could come back to bite the actual S/N owner.

[cnckeith]

amazing what you can find on google..

[Text removed by svenakela]

http://www.cnczone.com/cg...5;t=000705;p=0

[cnckeith]

a simple phone call to centroid reveals that they (CENTROID) have an outstanding offer to putterman to buy back the system at 100% of the amount paid. guaranteed or your money back? sounds preety good to me..anyways.. [Text removed by svenakela].

anyways.. back to more positive things like making parts!!