Originally Posted by PacNWSwiss  It’s simple. With a Star you work for the machine. With a Citizen the machine works for you. The Star makes good parts as does the Citizen, but with the Citizen I am not bogged down by the details in running the machine. I am freed to be a better machinist. The Citizen refines the details which allow you to make improvements on your process and not just make it through it. |
Wow, it's that simple eh? I must be missing something in almost 20 years of Swiss-type machines. I didn't realize Cincom had a lock on this.
I've run them both and I'll agree the Citizen is a little better-thought-out on some things, such as tool setting. Star has some things better than Citizen, such as the "optimization" on the SR-20RIII. Then there's Maier has a base and tool monitoring that's better than both of them, Tsugami has some great software to run their 3-channel machines and many models that switch to chucker mode, etc.
They all have their good points. Tell me what "details" you don't get bogged down with on your Citizens that I'd have to bother with on a Star? I find I have to spend just as much time on either to check parts, keep tools fresh, and setup. They're all pretty good machines, and a few models are
exceptional for certain types of work. Your machine's productivity depends upon what work you have, what tooling you have, how much pre-engineering and preparation is into each job before it hits the machine, and the training of the personnel, and the match of machine features to part requirements more than machine brand.
I've worked in shops with multiple brands, and some shops that were all one brand. Those with multiple brands on the floor seemed better able to solve troublesome jobs because they have "a bigger toolbox." When something didn't run well on a Star, try it on a Tornos. If it didn't run well on a Tornos, try it on a Star. Same thing with a shop I worked at that had Citizen and Nomura. Yes, there were some jobs that just did not run as well on the L25 as they did on the NN-25Y.
No one machine stands clearly above the rest for everything. It's not like cars.
